Pokemon Diamond and Pearl (debate).

[Sceptile_Master]

So okay we all pretty much know that these are the two new pokemon versions that are going to be released on the up and coming Nintendo DS portable gaming system. But before I start please note that this is a SERIOUS discussion. Okay then some points that are to be discussed are:

> The new generation of pokemon. What are your views on nontendo adding new pokemon to the world. We all know munchlax is being put in, but are nintendo going over the top with the amount of pokemon they are adding. Should they round it off for the up and coming diamond and pearl games to something like a nice 400.

>should the two up and coming games be set in a new pokemon region or one of the ones already made (kanto, johto, hoenn, orre). Would a DS version of the orre region (probably with wild pokemon) be intresting* (*note that this ties in with the next section). If you think they should create a new world what should it be like.

>Should the pokemon extend to 3D graphics on a hand held system or should they be touched up 2D games like at the moment. As mentioned above it may be interesting to see how the developers would do orre in 2D.

>How should the new features of the DS be used to enhance the gaming experience of these two new versions. Also how should the link between the GBA/media port be used to interact with these new games (eg. pokemon trading or mabye getting secret items like the mystery ticket on fire red and leaf green).

>DV's or IV's and EV's. Should pokemon go back to the old Dv system. For alot of people it just felt right to use DV's and stuff, and made raising the pokemon more enjoyable for them. Ev training annoys people and some think it has ruined the true meaning Nintendo originally said about raising pokemon with love and they will become stronger. For some it just isn't true pokemon with Iv's and EV's.

>Day, night and time in general. For all people who have fire red or leaf green you may have noticed that there is no in game clock. For some having day and night added was an unbelievable and hugely fun aspect of the game. Even though ruby and sapphire still had time alot of the greatness that made the time in gold, silver and crystal. Like pokemon appearing at different times and Buenas password only being aired between 6pm and midnight. Also the loss of being able to set the day was a big blow for some. Events happening on different days was very cool in alot of peoples opions.

>Added ubers evry generation now means there are two many. Some people think there are to many ubers. Should Nintendo stop adding them (Ties in with the adding a 4th generation of pokemon section of discussion). Should nintendo only allow certain ubers on certain versions (ties in with the next section).

>Pokedex or exclusive pokemon. Ruby and sapphire has introduced another type of pokedex with certain pokemon. Should in an effort to limit ubers make a pokedex for each version. with some pokemon including ubers not being able to be traded to the other versions because they are not in the pokedex. This could allow each version to be more exclusive, or do you prefer it the way it is (having access to all pokemon in all versions).

>Promotional events. Are nintendo going over the top with promotional events AND trading with newer versions. Are to many pokemon now hidden by tickets etc. Are nintendo making it to hard to get all of these special pokemon by having spread them over to many pokemon games. Even after red, blue and yellow (in gold, silver and crystal) it all the pokemon were already available in previous games and there weren't to many promotional events. The type of promo events and stuff were originally meant so that you would buy all the games to get all the pokemon (a marketing tactic), although this has forced people to not get the games therefore sales have stayed the same but the games are less fun. people who liked the series bought the games anyway.

>Gold, Silver and crystal were revolutionary. Should the series go back to all the features and likness of gold, silver and crystal version. Alot of people don't have the newer games as they think they are inferior. Should the new games go back to how gold, silver and crystal was. For alot of people the feel of these games was superb. How everything reflected the mood perfectly. Like the first time you stepped into Ilex forest. Now the forests don't have much feel about them. There are so many reasons it should make a decent discussion topic.

>Are you tired of 8 badges and then the elite four. Should the story be changed. Also should the game have more of a longer and more absorbing plot, to make it into an epic tale. One that could possibly open a story line discussion forum. If so what do you think the story should be like/include. Also should there be more effort put into the after elite four or main story type thing (if you don't want the elite four) world. Alot of people find the islands very lacking and ruby and sapphire didn't have much.

When writing these I have tried not to add to much opinion, that is for discussing. Who knows if this topic does really well mabye we could send it to Nintendo. They make changes if it is profitable. And if alot of people want certain things it will surely be read and used. Game developers do normally change the game if it profitable. But that is besides the point, this is a discussion/debate. Lets go and discuss what diamond and pearl SHOULD be like.

[Aarkan]

They should stick with the current mechanics (EV/IV system) but reintroduce IV and shiny breeding and stuff like that. There should be at LEAST 500 pokemon total including the 386 we currently have. They're linking Emerald to the new ones so that's the gateway between generations. Using that you should also be able to access stuff like Contests and stuff... They should definatly bring back day/night and the days of the week having something similar to the pokegear, that was by far the best aspect to G/S/C. They should also release a brand new set of 50 TM's but allow the Advance TM's to be traded over and labeled as something like "TM 06A" for Toxic. More move tutors and egg moves and stuff are a given as well as brand new moves. These games can pretty much just take the Advance generation and build more on top of it, leaving everything on the bottom still there for everyone who likes it.
For the full 500/whatever pokedex there should be some Ru/Sa/E and FR/LG ONLY guys so they still have the incentive for people to buy those and a bonus for those who allready have it.

I think they should bring back Johto for a little honestly. That was my favorite region of any game. Hoenn is plugged right into it with Emerald so that isn't an issue and Kanto isn't that far and we've had it in every single generation so I don't think anyone would miss that for a little especially when they can send thier guys right over to emerald and then to Diamond/Pearl. They could really make these games have the best of every world and make it work. I mean hell, having ONLY new guys in the main game would be real cool too, then you just trade all the others over or something. That may seem like the "Two steps forward, one step backwards" that I felt about Ru/Sa for a while but you CAN just send all the others right over so that wouldn't be a real problem I don't think.

[Poryhedron]

> The new generation of pokemon. What are your views on nontendo adding new pokemon to the world. We all know munchlax is being put in, but are nintendo going over the top with the amount of pokemon they are adding. Should they round it off for the up and coming diamond and pearl games to something like a nice 400.
I agree that it would be nice not to end up with 500-or-so species to keep track of...however, I don't seriously believe that Nintendo would deviate from what has been a highly successful pattern (remember, to Nintendo, success isn't about community satisfaction. It's about sales.)

>should the two up and coming games be set in a new pokemon region or one of the ones already made (kanto, johto, hoenn, orre). Would a DS version of the orre region (probably with wild pokemon) be intresting* (*note that this ties in with the next section). If you think they should create a new world what should it be like.
I don't see any reason to stay in the already-made pokémon regions. We've already gotten to know the Gym Leaders there, and unless the game is set a few decades in the past or future we'd just be seeing the same faces. We also know the layout of the various caves and such already. I suspect Game Freak would rather like to forget about Orre, since Genius Sonority's creation doesn't jive with the rest of the existing Pokémon settings (see the Where Is Orre, Anyway? discussion.) Also, before anyone brings this up, it is very highly unreasonable to want a single game that visits all of the regions. Let's not be silly here.

>Should the pokemon extend to 3D graphics on a hand held system or should they be touched up 2D games like at the moment. As mentioned above it may be interesting to see how the developers would do orre in 2D.
Consider Pokémon's target audience. This is not the Metal Gear Solid fanbase we're talking about. Pokémon had done reasonably well graphicswise as far as the innovations in RuSa graphics over RBYGSC (the Bike finally doesn't look squashed in any way.)

>How should the new features of the DS be used to enhance the gaming experience of these two new versions. Also how should the link between the GBA/media port be used to interact with these new games (eg. pokemon trading or mabye getting secret items like the mystery ticket on fire red and leaf green).
...I...have no idea. It doesn't make much sense to have the Pokémon or Item menus or the Town Map available at all times, and the only way I can think of for a stylus to come into play would be a cute little minigame that occurs once in the entire game. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

>DV's or IV's and EV's. Should pokemon go back to the old Dv system. For alot of people it just felt right to use DV's and stuff, and made raising the pokemon more enjoyable for them. Ev training annoys people and some think it has ruined the true meaning Nintendo originally said about raising pokemon with love and they will become stronger. For some it just isn't true pokemon with Iv's and EV's.
Well, there's next to no difference between DVs and IVs. The question here is Stat EXP or Effort Values...I think Stat EXP is a bit better. EVs just seem artificial. However, there's something I've been wondering about as far as stat training. Why is it that, when you want to get better at Defense, you should battle Metapod and the like? Wouldn't it make more sense if trying to damage a continually hardening target allowed you to practice, and thus improve, your Attack power? Why does getting hit with an Alakazam's Psychic powers help train you to use such powers yourself rather than training you to be able to resist them better? I think Attack and Defense should be switched as far as which enemies boost what. Speed can stay the way it is because one battler's Attack opposes the other's Defense, but Speed opposes Speed. HP...I'm not sure about.

>Day, night and time in general. For all people who have fire red or leaf green you may have noticed that there is no in game clock. For some having day and night added was an unbelievable and hugely fun aspect of the game. Even though ruby and sapphire still had time alot of the greatness that made the time in gold, silver and crystal. Like pokemon appearing at different times and Buenas password only being aired between 6pm and midnight. Also the loss of being able to set the day was a big blow for some. Events happening on different days was very cool in alot of peoples opions.
Yes, I do agree that all of that was cool. However, I can see why it might have proven undesirable. In order to accomplish everything, you would have to play the game on each of the various days of the week, and during morning, day, and night. Not everyone has a schedule that allows for that. School, jobs and/or bedtime can all oppose the time-based-event setup. Removing those from RuSa gave players the freedom to play when they had the free time, rather than having to distort their daily schedule in order to get Ledyba.

>Added ubers evry generation now means there are two many. Some people think there are to many ubers. Should Nintendo stop adding them (Ties in with the adding a 4th generation of pokemon section of discussion). Should nintendo only allow certain ubers on certain versions (ties in with the next section).
The problem with legendary pokémon is that they are supposed to be unique (well, most of them, anyway,) so there is no plausible way for two different player characters to catch the same legend. Thus, there have to be new legends every generation, because what fun is the game without any legends to hunt? Granted, Nintendo is ignoring that fact by placing Ho-Oh and the Legendary Beasts in Colloseum, but Colloseum isn't exactly being presented as a marvel of continuity. They're also ignoring that fact, however, by placing Ho-Oh and Lugia on Island 8...and I, personally, hope they don't repeat that sort of thing in Diamond/Pearl, because it doesn't make any sense at all. How can Ho-Oh and Lugia, each a unique legend, be in Hoenn and be caught by the GSC character, and also in the Sevii Islands being caught by Red? Nintendo has deliberately kissed continuity goodbye, this time with Game Freak's willing participation.[/quote]

>Pokedex or exclusive pokemon. Ruby and sapphire has introduced another type of pokedex with certain pokemon. Should in an effort to limit ubers make a pokedex for each version. with some pokemon including ubers not being able to be traded to the other versions because they are not in the pokedex. This could allow each version to be more exclusive, or do you prefer it the way it is (having access to all pokemon in all versions).
This might be the way to solve the Legend Problem, and I'd be fine with it. I don't see Nintendo implementing it, though. It would go against the "Catch 'Em All" ideal.

>Promotional events. Are nintendo going over the top with promotional events AND trading with newer versions. Are to many pokemon now hidden by tickets etc. Are nintendo making it to hard to get all of these special pokemon by having spread them over to many pokemon games. Even after red, blue and yellow (in gold, silver and crystal) it all the pokemon were already available in previous games and there weren't to many promotional events. The type of promo events and stuff were originally meant so that you would buy all the games to get all the pokemon (a marketing tactic), although this has forced people to not get the games therefore sales have stayed the same but the games are less fun. people who liked the series bought the games anyway.
Yes. Definitely going over the top with the promotions. Maybe they justified their lapse of continuity by convincing themselves that it would only matter to people who were lucky enough to obtain the Ticket, but in today's Information Age everyone knew about the tickets before the game ever reached our shores. Knowing about it and not being able to get it = being left out.

[Sceptile_Master]

Being able to trade from previous games instead of newer ones sounds really good. Nice pointer Aarkon. I think Johto would be nice to (or to a lesser extent Orre). The Tm thing sounds cool. Although i think the pokemon should round off at a nice 400. 500 would be to much IMO. I think they should add the feel that gold and silver gave to every place you visited. I really shouldn't be posting short posts for the moment but I'll think of something later I have done a lot of typing today. bee back with lots of my opinions later.

EDIT: I never saw pory's post. Oh well. Forgot to put in a big discussion point I am just about to edit the original post to include it. PS: pory I think they already have discarded the gotta catch em all slogan.

[Orion]

> The new generation of pokemon. What are your views on nontendo adding new pokemon to the world. We all know munchlax is being put in, but are nintendo going over the top with the amount of pokemon they are adding. Should they round it off for the up and coming diamond and pearl games to something like a nice 400.

400? That'd be adding ONLY 14 new Pokémon. That's just unconceivable. My guess is that it'll go to 451. And they WILL keep on adding Pokémon as long as there's fanbase. After all, Pokémon is not the fad it once was. It passed to from part of Nintendo's Legendary Franchises (Still falls short, but someday it will be.). I have the awful feeling that this Generation will emulate GSC... which means lack of ORIGINAL and INTERESTING Pokémon, and an unnecessary focus on old Pokémon rather than new ones. I just hope my feelings are wrong, but with Munchlax as the only known Pokémon... not many hopes.


>should the two up and coming games be set in a new pokemon region or one of the ones already made (kanto, johto, hoenn, orre). Would a DS version of the orre region (probably with wild pokemon) be intresting* (*note that this ties in with the next section). If you think they should create a new world what should it be like.

It'll be a new Region for sure. GSC was half-new Region, and RSE was ALL new. Why they should limit the DS potential just to an existing Region? We know the drill... either a remade Region or a sequel-ish feeling. I hope it's just a new Region, and if they add the possibility of traveling back to an older Region, keep the sequel feeling, BUT DON'T butcher the old place!


>Should the pokemon extend to 3D graphics on a hand held system or should they be touched up 2D games like at the moment. As mentioned above it may be interesting to see how the developers would do orre in 2D.

I think taking 2D to its max would be the way to go. 3D Pokémon games are either not very good or too short. I'd rather see a big, awesome Region with a deeper storyline than stunning 3D animation, really... and haven't you noticed that Nintendo wants to get rid of the apparent failure Pokémon Colosseum was? I bet my @$$ that we'll never hear the words Cipher, Snagem, Purification, Shadow Pokémon and Hyper Mode again...


>How should the new features of the DS be used to enhance the gaming experience of these two new versions. Also how should the link between the GBA/media port be used to interact with these new games (eg. pokemon trading or mabye getting secret items like the mystery ticket on fire red and leaf green).

I've ran out of ideas on how to improve Pokémon. They've really satisfied me with the 3rd Generation... I just hope the two screens involve an interesting feature.


>DV's or IV's and EV's. Should pokemon go back to the old Dv system. For alot of people it just felt right to use DV's and stuff, and made raising the pokemon more enjoyable for them. Ev training annoys people and some think it has ruined the true meaning Nintendo originally said about raising pokemon with love and they will become stronger. For some it just isn't true pokemon with Iv's and EV's.

Nope, at all. If anything, IVs and EVs made it possible for middle-to-low Tier Pokémon to get into the competition. How are they intending to put the phrase "Skilled Trainers should try to win with their favorites" when your favorites don't have a chance at all due to DVs and Max Stats? Really, only Top-5 Tier Pokémon had enough chance in RBY AND GSC. I really don't see how it ruins the original feeling. If anything, you get to SPECIALIZE your beloved Pokémon in the Stat they like the most. And you get to pass more time with them, thinking on how you'll train them. IVs and EVs also give you a satisfaction when you're done, because it ACTUALLY takes effort! The ONLY changes I can see on this awesome system is raising the EV Cap to 765, so you'll be able to max out half of your Pokémon's Stats. Also, maybe returning to the original DV numbers (0 to 15), as for unlucky fellows it's frustrating to attempt at high IVs. 0 to 31 and not-as-hereditary Breeding make unlucky ones unhappy. Oh well, I guess that most people are lazy bums that can't care less to actually think how they will train their Pokémon. IVs and EVs are there to stay, I hope. I'm OK with DVs, but NOT with Max Stats. If they go back to the GSC frenziness, I'll stay with the 3rd Generation, thanks...


>Day, night and time in general. For all people who have fire red or leaf green you may have noticed that there is no in game clock. For some having day and night added was an unbelievable and hugely fun aspect of the game. Even though ruby and sapphire still had time alot of the greatness that made the time in gold, silver and crystal. Like pokemon appearing at different times and Buenas password only being aired between 6pm and midnight. Also the loss of being able to set the day was a big blow for some. Events happening on different days was very cool in alot of peoples opions.

Agreed. Just make it deeper. A Calendar is something I'd like to see too. (YEAR Calendar, not WEEK Calendar as in GSC...). It'd expand the game a bit. Like receiving special Items at your Birthday and finding rare Pokémon in certain places at certain seasons of the year. And just make the night atmosphere darker, not black as in GSC...


>Added ubers evry generation now means there are two many. Some people think there are to many ubers. Should Nintendo stop adding them (Ties in with the adding a 4th generation of pokemon section of discussion). Should nintendo only allow certain ubers on certain versions (ties in with the next section).

There will always be 00bers in all new games, since they expand the "Legend". What Legend, you ask? I don't know. I've deviced many possibilities, but maybe Nintendo will reveal the thruth to us someday... and the point about only allowing certain 00bers is kinda pointless. Unless the area is full of n00bs, 00ber Clause is ALWAYS in effect among most players anyway.


>Pokedex or exclusive pokemon. Ruby and sapphire has introduced another type of pokedex with certain pokemon. Should in an effort to limit ubers make a pokedex for each version. with some pokemon including ubers not being able to be traded to the other versions because they are not in the pokedex. This could allow each version to be more exclusive, or do you prefer it the way it is (having access to all pokemon in all versions).

The old way is the more feasible, and since it seems those versions will be immediately compatible with the 3rd Generation, there'll be no need for a certain Pokédex.


>Promotional events. Are nintendo going over the top with promotional events AND trading with newer versions. Are to many pokemon now hidden by tickets etc. Are nintendo making it to hard to get all of these special pokemon by having spread them over to many pokemon games. Even after red, blue and yellow (in gold, silver and crystal) it all the pokemon were already available in previous games and there weren't to many promotional events. The type of promo events and stuff were originally meant so that you would buy all the games to get all the pokemon (a marketing tactic), although this has forced people to not get the games therefore sales have stayed the same but the games are less fun. people who liked the series bought the games anyway.

There will ALWAYS be promotions as long as there are promotional Pokémon. You know the TRUE reason of the success of Pokémon in Japan? It was just another Game Boy game that was doomed to oblivion until Game Freak announced the secret Pokémon, Mew... that's why we'll see special Pokémon within every generation. Whereas the Mew clones are getting old, I wouldn't mind seeing another Pokémon with a twist between games as Deoxys was. From being a freak Poké I happened to hate, transformed in one of the most interesting Pokémon ever with so many forms.


>Gold, Silver and crystal were revolutionary. Should the series go back to all the features and likness of gold, silver and crystal version. Alot of people don't have the newer games as they think they are inferior. Should the new games go back to how gold, silver and crystal was. For alot of people the feel of these games was superb. How everything reflected the mood perfectly. Like the first time you stepped into Ilex forest. Now the forests don't have much feel about them. There are so many reasons it should make a decent discussion topic.

Apart from many things that are still available in the 3rd Generation, I don't see much appeal to GSC... and NO Forest will EVER have the same feeling as Viridian Forest back in RBY.


>Are you tired of 8 badges and then the elite four. Should the story be changed. Also should the game have more of a longer and more absorbing plot, to make it into an epic tale. One that could possibly open a story line discussion forum. If so what do you think the story should be like/include. Also should there be more effort put into the after elite four or main story type thing (if you don't want the elite four) world. Alot of people find the islands very lacking and ruby and sapphire didn't have much.

Not that I'm tired, but I'd like something new. Maybe Colosseum-ish, but better done. Or maybe a Tourney System, where instead of winning Badges, you have to win Tournaments in order to win your pass to the final Region Tournament. Oh well, I just hope for a deeper plot and a Team/Organization as evil as Cipher was...

I might add more if needed...

[Sceptile_Master]

Just to add. I am not trying to be opinionated in the suggested topics thing. It would be good to try and limit from thinking some ideas are my opinion. Note that i will post all my opinions tomorrow (I have done alot of typing today).

[rinku]

Whew. Huge posts.

I won't try to address each point, and apologise if I duplicate some of the other replies, but here are my thoughts:

They won't be changing the new effort scheme. They took a huge gamble making R/S incompatible with previous versions in order to add new features and improve those added in GSC (i.e. making gender independant of stats). Any future added features will be able to use the various hidden values for variety, and I'd expect to see more use of nature and special abilities in terms of game effect (i.e. look at how Emerald has expanded non-battle ability use). The old effort scheme was boring - you just kept training against anything until your pokémon maxed out effort on all stats. The new scheme is superior *because* it does not allow maximum values in all stats - you have choices to make as a trainer apart from what moveset to use.

Looks like they are already trialling 3D for the DS with Pokémon Dash. I'd expect them to move to 3D if possible, though Game Freak may choose to play it safe. Cell shading to get the anime look would be most effective IMHO, not the ray-traced style of Stadium/Colosseum. At the very least, 3D walkaround mode would be good.

I'd expect new areas, though they may go the route of GS and cover previous areas as well. They could be saving the big one for the eventual Gamecube replacement. I've previously posted my hunch that they'll set it in Hokkaido and go with an Ice theme. Glacia is from somewhere far away from Hoenn, after all.

There surely will be more than 14 pokémon added. I think even 451 is too low for a whole generation (only 65 new ones?) and would expect 501 as the new total. Many of these, however, will be new 3rd stages and pre-evos.

I reckon time will return, and since the game is guaranteed to be played on a backlit screen they'll put back in night effects (personally, I'd make it a game option. Some people only get to play at night). DS *should* have a reliable clock and calender as it's meant to have diary functions built in. I'd expect the pokémon games just to use the system's clock time. Depends on how many complaints they've gotten over reduced clock functions vs having to wait for clock based events.

You can count on there being powerful reward pokémon, but I'd expect them to be more in the vein of Rayquayza than Mewtwo (i.e. at least one major weakness). There will be promotionals, but perhaps this time they won't hard code them into the game? Would not be impossible to set aside a section of EPROM to accept the full data for one or two special pokémon. This would prevent pre-release revelations from ROM hackers (indeed, they could even hold of designing the bugger until after release). On the flip side, this might open the door to people hacking in custom pokémon... so on reflection they would be unlikely to do it. They may work harder on scrambling the data though.

One thing I think they should do is make it possible to trade between a RSEFRLG cart and a DP cart that have been put into the same DS. This would be a great convenience for those players who own both generations. Battling would probably remain limited to needing 2 DS consoles though - I can't see them making it easy to play both sides of a battle.

Here's a feature that would be cool - allow the import of the trainer details from an old cart when starting DP. Including such things as badges and pokédex (or... dare we dream... all your boxes...!?). Most players restart a few times anyway to get all the starters, so you could still experience the game stand alone before you imported your old save. If they did offer importing of wholesale saves I'd expect it would result in wiping the old cart's save, otherwise it would make it too easy to duplicate. But I'd be in it.

[SWAMPERT1]

Here is my point of view. The pokemon count should be put up 100/150 ORIGINAL pokemon. I dont want stupid barely diffrent pokemon and have Nintendo pass them of as "NEW".

New game + pokes should equal a new region (maybe even two). I think that later on Kanto, Johto and Hoenn should be in the gameand maybe it could be like the anime were you can only take ONE pokemon into the region with you and you have to catch new Pokemon and of course, the Gym leaders MUST be stronger in the regions (Because your poke has already gone threw a region remember). Orre in D/P is a no-no.

Pokemon should stay in 2D. It hate all 3D Pokemon Games besides PS1.

For the whole trading thing, I dont really care. I'll leave it up to the big N.

I never used IVs/DVs/WhateverEs so, no comment.

Day/Night/Time would be a nice feature BUT if I can get a better, longer game without it then I will. This will probably be in it because Game Freak said, "We are not cutting any corners in these games."

I dont really care about Ubers. I found is that if you cant beat an uber without an uber use an uber! Did that make sence? Anywho if certain "Ubers" can be found in only a certain version then that may be cool.

Keep the Dex the same

Promo events suck. They are never near 1000KM of me.

These games are the FIRST Pokemon Games on the DS, Nintendo should add one thing if any, A better, longer, more detailed story.

[Dark Scizor]

Every other region apart from Oore, no promo events for the super rare pokémon of that game or some money making ploy like in Pokémon Channel :).

Backwards compatibility. Day/night, days of the week and time (so you can check whenever like on G/S) would be nice to have. Your mom to be a bank again would be good, having 1,999,998 again :D.

[Silent Dragonfly]

I'd be happier sticking with 2D. The current 3D graphics on gamecube are horrible, and i shouldn't think DS is in the same leauge as the GCN. Colosseum's graphic were simply taken from Stad2 and touched up a little, and even 3rd Gen pokes look poor. Dusclops look like a blocky piece of plastecine. The shadows are terrible. The shadow of jumpluff's "buds" are sqaure instead of circular. Keep 2D.

500 seems a good number for now. Though 550 wouldn't surprise me either. (GS added 100, RuSa added 135!!!!) Hopefully any new baby forms will be useful, the happiness babies are just a hinderance if you've bred for a team member and don't really give much. Wynaut's Encore rocked though. I dread to think how many ledgendaries/ubers will show up, RBY had 5, GSC added 6 and RuSa gave us another 10! Evos for GSC pokes would be nice, they are crappy on majority with hunks of crap like delibird and sunflora.

Please, no GSC revival. The story was crappy and lacked any depth, Rocket were pretty pathetic forever crying about giovanni, the "rival" never really interacted - he was just there every so often to battle, dungeons were very small, and the radio was pretty useless. Bleh.

One thing I would like to see from GSC is the true time events, darkness at night, events on certain days. A yearly calendar would be a definate no-no. I aint gonna wait half a year to get winter and summer pokémon.

I wouldn't like to see a change in storyline, 8 gyms -> Elite 4 isn't bad, keeping that base is fine, as long as you have plenty of side-stories.

I definatly would want 3rd gen compatibility, and I'm with rinku with the EV system, it makes it much more customisable and interesting. I would like to see new abilities and possibly even HP altering natures.

Thats about it, I think

EDIT: Corrected number added to RuSa

[Razola]

> The new generation of pokemon. What are your views on nontendo adding new pokemon to the world. We all know munchlax is being put in, but are nintendo going over the top with the amount of pokemon they are adding. Should they round it off for the up and coming diamond and pearl games to something like a nice 400.
I can say that I wouldn't mind 400 if it meant that they would all be catchable in Diamond and Pearl, rather than requiring us to buy three other games to have them all.

Otherwise, 450 sounds good. But Munchlax means more worthless pre-evos, so up it to 500 because they've pretty much told us there's going to be crap.


>should the two up and coming games be set in a new pokemon region or one of the ones already made (kanto, johto, hoenn, orre). Would a DS version of the orre region (probably with wild pokemon) be intresting* (*note that this ties in with the next section). If you think they should create a new world what should it be like.
If they give us all four existing regions without half-assing any like Gold/Silver's Kanto (which was understandable due to hardware limitations), then I say yes.

Otherwise focus on something new and BIG. Hoenn was too damn small


>Should the pokemon extend to 3D graphics on a hand held system or should they be touched up 2D games like at the moment. As mentioned above it may be interesting to see how the developers would do orre in 2D.
2D graphics. The PS1 and N64 era of graphics aged horribly, and that's about what to expect on the DS in terms of 3D. I say 2D graphics because if Nintendo does the same hack-job they did graphically on Ruby/Sapphire, I'd rather have crappy 2D graphics than 3D.


>How should the new features of the DS be used to enhance the gaming experience of these two new versions. Also how should the link between the GBA/media port be used to interact with these new games (eg. pokemon trading or mabye getting secret items like the mystery ticket on fire red and leaf green).
The GBA port is simple: transfer the pokemon from older generation.

Microphone: While incredibly nerdy, I'm sure mnay pokegeeks would love to be able to have attacks on voice commands. I can bet Animelee would just love to be able to yell "Vine Whip!" and get said results in game.

Wireless: Internet access for a ladder-esque ranking system would be badass.

Stylus: It would be nice to have an Animal Crossing design element for your avatar. Draw designs for his/her hat, shirt, etc.


>DV's or IV's and EV's. Should pokemon go back to the old Dv system. For alot of people it just felt right to use DV's and stuff, and made raising the pokemon more enjoyable for them. Ev training annoys people and some think it has ruined the true meaning Nintendo originally said about raising pokemon with love and they will become stronger. For some it just isn't true pokemon with Iv's and EV's.
I saw drop both or at the very least stop making them hidden numbers. I for one would like to see them go, as they serve no purpose besides making us fight a billion meaningless fights. Make something simpler, such as an attitude system. Treat your pokemon like shit? Offensive stats be a bit higher at the risk of disloyalty. Train them hard? Power points for certain attacks may rise.

And drop the random stat potential, as it's horrible for tournaments and encourages cheating. First off, it's bullshit that we should have to keep searching for the magical pokemon with perfect stats. That doesn't cater to skill at all. Second, it's more hidden numbers.

As you can tell, I don't like to work my way through the game, only to find out that my entire team is absolute crap because of hidden circumstances.


>Day, night and time in general. For all people who have fire red or leaf green you may have noticed that there is no in game clock. For some having day and night added was an unbelievable and hugely fun aspect of the game. Even though ruby and sapphire still had time alot of the greatness that made the time in gold, silver and crystal. Like pokemon appearing at different times and Buenas password only being aired between 6pm and midnight. Also the loss of being able to set the day was a big blow for some. Events happening on different days was very cool in alot of peoples opions.
Day and Night: Put it in, but not in real time. Something like: 1 hour Real Time = 24 hours Game Time. People simply don't have schedules tha tcan revolve around pokemon.

Weekdays: In, but try to minimize how critical they are. Good items earned on on certain days should be scheduled on weekends (when people have the most free time).

Special Events: In, but even less critical than Weekly events. Mostly stuff to show you participated in said event.


>Added ubers evry generation now means there are two many. Some people think there are to many ubers. Should Nintendo stop adding them (Ties in with the adding a 4th generation of pokemon section of discussion). Should nintendo only allow certain ubers on certain versions (ties in with the next section).
I do NOT like Legendary anything in any game as they don't wreck skill outright but diversity. Rather than skill in many possible factors, Legends boils down to your skill in a few factors.

One Legend. No more, no less.


>Pokedex or exclusive pokemon. Ruby and sapphire has introduced another type of pokedex with certain pokemon. Should in an effort to limit ubers make a pokedex for each version. with some pokemon including ubers not being able to be traded to the other versions because they are not in the pokedex. This could allow each version to be more exclusive, or do you prefer it the way it is (having access to all pokemon in all versions).
Both games should have access to all pokemon, be it in their version or gained through trading from another version.

[quote]>Promotional events. Are nintendo going over the top with promotional events AND trading with newer versions. Are to many pokemon now hidden by tickets etc. Are nintendo making it to hard to get all of these special pokemon by having spread them over to many pokemon games. Even after red, blue and yellow (in gold, silver and crystal) it all the pokemon were already available in previous games and there weren't to many promotional events. The type of promo events and stuff were originally meant so that you would buy all the games to get all the pokemon (a marketing tactic), although this has forced people to not get the games therefore sales have stayed the same but the games are less fun. people who liked the series bought the games anyway.
Nintendo needs to stop making Pokemon a cash cow and more a respected franchise. This means no more bullshit like we are seeing with this current generation. To currently "Catch 'em all", you need:

Ruby
Sapphire
Colosseum
Fire Red
Leaf Green

That's US $170 in software, and going way too far to make a quick buck.

Events should also not hand out "must-haves" and more cool stuff. Like a Snorlax with an Afro or a Deoxys that looks like a Metroid. I like Pokemon for it's competitive potential, and handing out stuff that might be good in tournaments is just wrong. Either ban them from tournies or stop handing them out.


>Gold, Silver and crystal were revolutionary. Should the series go back to all the features and likness of gold, silver and crystal version. Alot of people don't have the newer games as they think they are inferior. Should the new games go back to how gold, silver and crystal was. For alot of people the feel of these games was superb. How everything reflected the mood perfectly. Like the first time you stepped into Ilex forest. Now the forests don't have much feel about them. There are so many reasons it should make a decent discussion topic.
I'll touch on this in a bit.


>Are you tired of 8 badges and then the elite four. Should the story be changed. Also should the game have more of a longer and more absorbing plot, to make it into an epic tale. One that could possibly open a story line discussion forum. If so what do you think the story should be like/include. Also should there be more effort put into the after elite four or main story type thing (if you don't want the elite four) world. Alot of people find the islands very lacking and ruby and sapphire didn't have much.
I want open, GTA styled gameplay. Eight gym leaders is fine (but STOP making them one-trick ponies. Make them hard for once, Nintendo) an so is Elite Four, but those should be optional things to do.

Pokemon lends itself to open-ended gameplay. I don't want a lot of linear stuff and centralized plots. Sure, give us plenty of missions to do: stop evil plots, help out a town, etc. Give us a ton of shit to do. But don't force us to do certain things in order or do them at all (though have a few key plot missions to unlock certain things isn't always too bad).

Pokemon should this: you're a kid collecting pokemon and sometimes getting into random situations. But enough of fighting gym leaders 1-8 and all this other nonsense.


Who knows if this topic does really well mabye we could send it to Nintendo.
They won't read it.


They make changes if it is profitable.
They already know that they can slap "Pokemon" on a pile of shit and make millions. Nintendo is only going to make changes for the sake of making a good game.

[Ice Rabbit]

I really don't care how many Pokémon there are, just that there are good ones (not as much novelty crap).

I would prefer 2d, it's easier to do well on. That's just me. The DS has graphics like or a bit better than the N64. Not really ready to go 3d.

I really don't care about what mechanics they use, just as long as it's complicated.

Screw the promotional events. Why do they give must-haves away? Why can't they be ingame? The only thing promotional events should be used for is cool looking versions of Pokémon (that are still the same). I'm sick of missing out on everything.

[rinku]

Raz, I'd take issue with one of your comments:


Nintendo needs to stop making Pokemon a cash cow and more a respected franchise. This means no more bullshit like we are seeing with this current generation. To currently "Catch 'em all", you need:

Ruby
Sapphire
Colosseum
Fire Red
Leaf Green

That's US $170 in software, and going way too far to make a quick buck.


That's not really true. All you need is one cart, plus a trading network that includes the others. While Nintendo certainly don't object to obsessive fans who buy the lot, you have *never* been able to "catch 'em all" without trading. If that's your goal (and you certainly don't need it to enjoy the game), the cheap option is and always has been to make friends.

By all means, criticise the promotional concept - that's a seperate issue, though the promotional ones have been excluded from the "complete the pokédex" quests. But you do not need to buy those extra games unless you want to, especially the duplicates.

[Razola]

That's not really true. All you need is one cart, plus a trading network that includes the others.
For many, that's not easy to set up, and a pain to do.

And even if you're going to network; that is still $170 between you all as opposed to the $60 we had in the last two generations.


While Nintendo certainly don't object to obsessive fans who buy the lot, you have *never* been able to "catch 'em all" without trading.
It was fine when it was 10 or so pokemon on a seperate cart. But look at Colosseum. Have to catch and purify a whole other batch to give to your buddy. That's VERY annoying, especially for those of us who can't dedicate our lives to catching 'em all.


If that's your goal (and you certainly don't need it to enjoy the game), the cheap option is and always has been to make friends.
That's not cheap. Let me repeat myself:

Red and Blue: 60 bucks
Gold and Silver: 60 bucks
Ruby and Sapphire and friends: 170 bucks

Doesn't matter whose hide it's coming out of, the bottom line is that someone is going to have to spend a little more to get certain pokemon.


By all means, criticise the promotional concept - that's a seperate issue, though the promotional ones have been excluded from the "complete the pokédex" quests.
That's great and all, but you know most people won't consider it complete until they really have them all.

[rinku]

Let me repeat myself:

Red and Blue: 60 bucks
Gold and Silver: 60 bucks
Ruby and Sapphire and friends: 170 bucks


So... $120 to catch 249 (excluding Mew and Celebi) vs $170 to catch 380 (excluding Mex, Celebi, Jirachi, Lugia, Deoxys). Or $120 to catch around 350 with Ruby, Sapphire, FR & LG alone. Or, to put it in proper context:

Red & Blue: 150 pokémon, $30 each for you and a freind.
Gold & Silver: +100 pokémon, $30 each for you and a friend, 2 years later

Ruby & Sapphire: 200 pokémon, $30 each for you and a friend
FR & LG: +about 150 pokémon, $30 each for you and a friend 1 year later, though geting the wireless adaptor cartainly is a nice bonus, you would agree.

Colosseum certainly changes the above equation in terms of "catch 'em all", since access to it is currently required to do so, which was not the case with Stadium. And I will agree with you that it is not worth the expense of buying the game just to get the pokémon on it. But this again comes back to your trading network. All you need is to *know* someone who has it, or someone who knows someone who has it and can get them for you. Also, as you have yourself pointed out many times, you can rent a copy if that's all you want.

Hey, I can't help it if you have no friends...

[Razola]

Hey, I can't help it if you have no friends...
You're missing the point: the money is still coming out of SOMEONE. I'm not a greedy bastard, I'm stating what Nintendo is getting, not who's spending. The bottom line is that we the consumers are spending more. And even you can admit that it's a pain in the ass to have to go through all this work for a couple pokemon.

All pokemon on two versions worked and didn't reek too much of corporate bastards.

And if you want to tip the scales, throw in the cash for buying the hardware.

[Mister_Gadget]

Day/Night and the 4 Seasons will be cool: If in the game is summer, you will see the sun shining, the flower growing and you can catch some plant type Pokemon like Sunkern, in winter some ice type Pokemon. In an area with an inactive Volcano you can catch fire type Pokemon, even the starters: Charmander, Cyndaquil... Fish every water type Pokemon, even the starters: Squirtle, Totodile... also the plant starters on any grass area. 2D Animation like in Crystal, Emerald: Pokemon have their own Animation but also the Attacks. All gyms, like in Kanto/Johto, first the rock-type gym and finally the dragon-type gym with all the Kanto/Johto/Hoenn Pokemon, and new Gyms with dark-type Pokemon, open only at night, or light-type Pokemon. You'll have 18 badges. Perhaps in these games there will be mineral-type Pokemon like Diamond/Flying.
The GSC-Pokedex with the search-by-type Mode.
After the Elite 4 you can rebattle the Gym Leaders, like in Emerald and after a certain time you can battle them again (also the Elite 4), so at the end they'll have Level 100 Pokemon with new Attacks each time you rebattle them.

[Iveechan]

All I want... is a "proper" jungle or desert island. Or a rainforest which is like a jungle but more awesome. Safari zone in the new games is too lush and green to be a savannah (sp?) and looks too much like somebody's backyard to be a jungle. I've made up a canopy area where you actually walk on thick treetops and encounter Pokemon either randomly or in thick leaf bunches.

And, like others have mentioned, an ice area that's more than a cave. It could be an evergreen forest type place where the towns have lodges and look something like northern Canada and Alaska, and maybe if you travel far enough, you reach a frozen tundra where an Ice type legend dwells.

An underwater city would be neat also. There's just so many ways to be creative with environments in Pokemon games.

Onto the technical aspect, I think somebody mentioned this, but raising the EV cap so you can max out more than 2 stats. Or making the requirement to a maxed out stat to be lower so you have a chance to max out other stats. I just think it's unfair that a max speed and special attack Gengar can pulverize anything while deciding EV's for a Tyranitar can be a pain. The new games encourage speed and attacks too much, so slower Pokemon are at the short end of the stick, even tanks.

[rinku]

You're missing the point: the money is still coming out of SOMEONE. I'm not a greedy bastard, I'm stating what Nintendo is getting, not who's spending. The bottom line is that we the consumers are spending more. And even you can admit that it's a pain in the ass to have to go through all this work for a couple pokemon.

All pokemon on two versions worked and didn't reek too much of corporate bastards.

And if you want to tip the scales, throw in the cash for buying the hardware.

Hardware argument only holds water if you ignore all the other titles a consumer is interested in. I think we agree that buying a Gamecube and link cable *just* to get a few dozen pokémon is stupid. But there are plenty of other good games out there for the cube.

I dunno Raz. What do you want Nintendo to do? Give the games away and go bankrupt? Produce one complete pokémon game and then close down the franchise altogther? Are you just bitter that you felt let down by Colosseum (which I agree is a flawed product, though not IMHO worthless in itself). Would you rather that Gamefreak do *not* develop the next set of games for the DS?

I don't object to having to work to complete the pokédex. No more than I object to having to spend a lot of time in the Safari Zone, or fishing, or running around areas with a 1% chance of encounter.

My main point is that you are objecting to something that was built into Red & Green (even before Blue) - not being able to complete the pokédex from one cart is the main point of the collecting design of the game. You are right - someone has to buy the new games... but it doesn't have to be someone who previously owned an old one. Of course Nintendo want sales, but I can guarantee you that they value new customers more than established ones who won't be buying as much new hardware and may not be interested in expanding their existing game library. If there is anything truly insidious about pokémon it is simply that it does encourage players to get their associates into Nintendo so they can battle and trade. Again - nothing has changed in nine years, except the hardware is getting better.

A final (counter) point: you need the same purchases to battle as to trade - one cart each, one GBA each and a cable (classically, one sibling gets Red, one gets Blue). After the game's plot has been finished, after all the pokémon have been collected... it is the link battling aspect of the game which has the most legs and value for money anyway.

[Razola]

Hardware argument only holds water if you ignore all the other titles a consumer is interested in.
Which is why I didn't originally add it.


I dunno Raz. What do you want Nintendo to do? Give the games away and go bankrupt?
Wonderful strawman, but I've already listed what I wanted:


All pokemon on two versions worked and didn't reek too much of corporate bastards.
I suggest actually reading my posts next time. At the very least, it'll cut down on your typing.


Produce one complete pokémon game and then close down the franchise altogther?
Oh noes! Sell one seperate game!? This doesn't work at all for other games!

Oh wait. It does.


Are you just bitter that you felt let down by Colosseum (which I agree is a flawed product, though not IMHO worthless in itself). Would you rather that Gamefreak do *not* develop the next set of games for the DS?

If it was up to me, I'd hand off development to Intelligent Systems. Play Colosseum and then play Paper Mario 2. Or play Ruby and Sapphire, then Advance Wars (1 or 2, I don't care which).

Am I bitter that Colosseum sucked? Not really, I saw it coming. I've already stated that I'm not too crazy about relying on it for pokemon.

And hey, none of my friends own pokemon games. And I'm not short on friends either. And I'm not keen on the idea of befriending anyone who thinks Colosseum is a quality. And either way, I shouldn't have to jump through such hoops to begin with.


I don't object to having to work to complete the pokédex. No more than I object to having to spend a lot of time in the Safari Zone, or fishing, or running around areas with a 1% chance of encounter.
Then that's your problem. I'm also talking about cash things here, though such elements are game design flaws.


My main point is that you are objecting to something that was built into Red & Green (even before Blue) - not being able to complete the pokédex from one cart is the main point of the collecting design of the game.
Are you referring to the whole two version issues. I hope - no, PRAY- that you aren't. Because I already stated that I'm down with two versions. Two versions is fine. You ignoring what I have said, especially since that is a major theme of your post, is not.



You are right - someone has to buy the new games... but it doesn't have to be someone who previously owned an old one.
Logic dictates that someone who is buying Colosseum is at least going to have Ruby and/or Sapphire. I pity any person who is buying just Colosseum.


Of course Nintendo want sales, but I can guarantee you that they value new customers more than established ones who won't be buying as much new hardware and may not be interested in expanding their existing game library.
Nintendo caters to their existing consumers almost to a fault.


If there is anything truly insidious about pokémon it is simply that it does encourage players to get their associates into Nintendo so they can battle and trade. Again - nothing has changed in nine years, except the hardware is getting better.
And the requirements are going up.


A final (counter) point: you need the same purchases to battle as to trade - one cart each, one GBA each and a cable (classically, one sibling gets Red, one gets Blue). After the game's plot has been finished, after all the pokémon have been collected... it is the link battling aspect of the game which has the most legs and value for money anyway.
You are an idiot. I've been holding it back, but I can't any longer.

IT COMES OFF AS VERY IGNORANT WHEN THE ENTIRE POINT OF YOUR THREAD ASSUMES SOMETHING THAT WAS PROVED FALSE IN THE VERY POST ABOVE YOU AS WELL AS A POST BEFORE THAT. THIS IS CALLED BAD DEBATING AND MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A TOTAL WASTE OF OXYGEN.

You wanna debate? Then read my gotdamned posts.

[rinku]

And hey, none of my friends own pokemon games.

Meaning you have little experience in how the games works in the environment it was designed for - i.e. a bunch of friends all of whom own one pokémon cart and a gameboy each.

That's pretty much what I thought. As usual, you're projecting your own situation on the designers and complaining because they don't cater to you.

I was enjoying this little discussion up until the recent abuse, but I think I'll go back to ignoring your rants for a while now that you've gone irrational again.

Man, get some counselling or something.

[Razola]

I wonder if you'll actually admit to not reading my post, or just hide behind a pile of crap you call a post.



Meaning you have little experience in how the games works in the environment it was designed for - i.e. a bunch of friends all of whom own one pokémon cart and a gameboy each.
Ouch, sorry try again. Yeah, today I don't have any friends that own it. But back in Red and Blue, I was trading and battling in the lunch room.

Once you again you utterly fail at this.


That's pretty much what I thought.
Statements like this I looooooooove. You thought WRONG. How's that egg on your face tastin'?


As usual, you're projecting your own situation on the designers and complaining because they don't cater to you.
How retarded.

As a consumer, I have no right to be angry because the producer isn't satisfying me? What kind of corporate drone are you? I'm a paying customer, and I'll damn well complain about my situation. It isn't ideal for me, and I can tell you it isn't ideal for a lot of other people as well. Perhaps if this generation was online or something, the whole "five games to catch 'em all!" method would be tolerable.

But not all of us can manage this. You fail to see this, and I should probably mention that I CAN afford to buy all five games, so this isn't a personal issue. Unlike you, I'm also thinking of other people.

Not everyone has access to pokemon-loving fiends or a lot of money. Are you going to start your embarrassing song and dance, teasting them as if they have some sort of social disease. "Your friends don't have pokemon games! Nyeh! Nyeh!" you screech, acting as if Nintendo is infallible in their money-making schemes. Preaching as if the pokemon enviroment itself works and therefore cannot be criticized or changed.

Maybe that isn't such a good system anymore? Forcing people to have this and that to make everything work? At least not as a major franchise entry. Make it some shoot-off like Zelda's Four Swords, where it's good adventure but it's clearly no Wind Waker or Ocarina of Time.

You don't need one title in a rainbow of colors to encourage community interaction. You already said yourself that most people only care about battling. Bam, there's interaction and only one version required. You just nullified your own argument.

Trading itself is flawed. With a unlimited supply of pokemon in my cart, I can easily get Pokemon A and trade it for Pokemon B. There's no sacrifice involved. Hell, when I would take my game to the local comic shop on weekends (oh wait, I don't anything about the enviroment, right?), most of the trades were trade backs: just trading once to get the pokedex info and then trading back. It was a souless proccess. Only trading for evolution was fairly exciting. And THAT was always a trade-back. Simply put, actually "trading" never really occured.

Just expand multiplayer options, and you got your community. Only requires one version.


I was enjoying this little discussion up until the recent abuse, but I think I'll go back to ignoring your rants for a while now that you've gone irrational again.
Translation:

"Hey there, ya got me. I actually didn't read your post and you called me on it. I'm now basically going to stop replying in this post to avoid any more embarrassment."

Of course my posts are irrational to you. That's because you are too lazy/scared/whatever to actually read my posts and engage me. OR you know that I'm right and you don't have the guts to admit it.


I need get some counselling or something.
Maybe. I dunno.

EDIT: It's quite clear that, at this point, you are trying to attack me in the hopes of taking the focus off your own incompetence. Sorry, ain't going to work. You screwed up, deal with it.

[Legends-Kuja]

Pokemon story = PHAIL

I want a decent damn story for once. I'm fed up of only having one moment of urgency during the entire game (RBY: The Silph Tower GSC: The Radio Tower R/S: The entire deal when you discover the enemy team's base--> the fight with the prevailing cart's legend.) Granted, R/S was ten times better with this, but I still felt like the story is still too crappy (sorta like Sonic, you'd think they'd come up with a good plot by now...). Although I like to stop and smell the roses, I'd also like to watch my Pokemon tango with the ruthless evil organization over some hostages, save the world Pokemon movie style, or brave a natural disaster on more than one grand occasion.

[PKMN Master]

I have the awful feeling that this Generation will emulate GSC... which means lack of ORIGINAL and INTERESTING Pokémon, and an unnecessary focus on old Pokémon rather than new ones. I just hope my feelings are wrong, but with Munchlax as the only known Pokémon... not many hopes.

Ok, I guess it's ok to have your own opinion, but once again I have to repeat this: GSC was the peak, the top, the highest point in pokémon videogames. There won't be anything better than that. 100 new pokemon were added, many of which, btw, continue to be standard (can you say blissey, skarmory, tyranitar, lanturn etc?) RS generation brought the remaining changes that should have been in GSC, about gameplay that is. Of course, the storyline wasn't the most deep one, but it had all the elements to make it good. And yeah... gosh, I recently played Stadium 2 with my brother, and it feels so much better than colosseum... I mean, you can battle a lot, but when you're tired, or simply you aren't in the mood fo battling, just go and play minigames... that was so much fun!... the one thing I agree with you is that Munchlax doesn't give many hopes... :(

I'd like to see the same play system (up to emerald, of course). Orre should be forgotten forever... it's not even a Japanese region as Kanto/Johto/Hoenn are! or either they should give us the three regions and a new one (that would be sooo long, but still good) or a new one, but much, much larger...

450 or so pokemon seem about right... I think they should stop at 500 hundred... anymore than that would be a pain.

The one thing I would really ask Nintendo: Don't forget the players that have been around RBY days... it's been awful with RS generation. Many of us are being left out. They're just focusing on bringing new kids; ok, it's always good to do that. But that's not the only market. And pls, stop making us spend so much money, 5 GBA versions, and one *coughcrappycough* GC game are a lot of money.

I understand Rinku's point, but you're only watching one side of the equation: you have, ahem, kids to play with. The only person I know that plays pokemon is my brother, and he's not as interested in the game as me. So it's rather difficult to find someone who plays pokemon around here, let alone to become friends with them... also, I don't have that much free time either :S I rather go to sleep, or study what I'm supposed to, instead of going to some place to trade pokemon, it's just a waste of time. You should be wondering then: why am I replying this post then? because, sadly, this is my only interaction with other players, besides my brother and online battling.

[Sceptile_Master]

Hi I'm back again. At the moment I am writing the story for Diamond and Pearl. It might take a few days but it is on its way GUARANTEED. Not bad debates but, I think that the argument between raz and rinku are getting kind of off topic and is no longer about diamond and pearl. Raz though i think you are kind of correct. So can I very kindly ask you two to stop it. Pppllleeeaaassseee. Anyways I WILL post it in a couple of days.

[Kris]

Sceptile Master, does that mean you KNOW what it is??

[rinku]

So can I very kindly ask you two to stop it.

Already stopped, as per my last post (despite Raz's scepticism).

Back on topic:

As to the pokémon mix... well, I have a great deal of faith in Game Freak to be careful. This is pretty much all they do, so they don't want to screw it up in terms of breaking the game. What I mean by that is I would expect a few new type combos, many new breeding possibilities, some strange evolution solutions (eg. Nincada, Hitmons) and a bit of backfilling of current 1 and 2 stage chains.

Every new pokémon has to be checked against not only the existing final stage set in terms of balance (most of the early stages can be ignored, though there are a few like Vigroth that need to be considered), but the various *possible* movesets have to be checked and cross checked. The bigger the world gets, the more this becomes a headache, and 2v2 battling and contest possibilities don't make the task any easier. GSC will always likely be the most innovative expansion simply because it was the first. R/S was in many ways a consolidation of the previous two generations. D/P has the opportunity to move forward.

They will want to retain backwards compatibility - but may introduce new types and moves in the same way they did in GSC. Since any new pokémon will not be backwards compatible to RSE/FRLG anyway, that would be one way of spicing up the mix.

I'd expect lots of minigames, which has to be good. I'd hope for a more involved plot, though a lot will depend on the actual demographics. If Nintendo's research shows the main customer base for the Advance games is still the 8-12 yo bracket, don't expect more adult plotting or complicated puzzles. Especially if they assess Colusseum as a flop. However, the larger scope of the DS cart should allow a lot more side quests at least.

[Powarun]

Couldn't the new DS games hold all of the areas already covered, Kanto, Johto, HOen and Orre. I would personally would like to see each one of these areas, plus another one, in one game. Each town used to its fullest extent, unlike the Kanto region in Gold and Silver. And to travel to each one would be aviable, once you collect a series of 8 gym leaders, and yeah that you make the games starting gym leaders really low levels, and the ending really low, but there could be bonuses, like if you complete the second region with only three pokemon then you can fight a certain legendary of that region. And once you reach the grand island or continent or whatever, you versus the elite trainers whose pokemon are all at level 100. Also with enablilng you to start from different areas seperate where pokemon are, but may alter the game play. Say you start out with the choice of Kanto Hoen or Johto, and your starting choices are the orginal three choices, and so after you can pick up another starter after completing that region, and when you start up again at another region, you get a choice of a starter, evolved or not of that region. That is what I would like to see.

[starjake]

Hmm. This is quite a debate.
However, as someone who knows nothing about actual programming, the point that jumps to my mind is this:

How much room is there on that tiny little cartrige?

Everybody's saying how they would like everything (even the kitchen sink) in D/P, but there must be a limit as to how many gimmicks and information can be physically crammed into a cartrige.

And there's another point to ponder. If you ask for a plain hot dog, its a certain amount of money. If you ask for a hot dog with ketchup, mustard, relish, and a toasted bun, it costs more. I would assume the same rule applies for cartriges (though I could be mistaken). If Nintendo stuffs this cartrige to the brim with things to do, yes it will be an excellent game, but at what price? Nintendo wants to make money, but they are more than smart enough to realize that higher prices = fewer people buying the games.

A third point (which I think has been mentioned; not entirely sure) is the age bracket. It's like giving a speech: you need to know your audience. Nintendo's going to do more research than a senior writing a thesis paper before they come out with a new game. That research wll tell them whether a) little kids (8 - 12ish); b) teenagers (13 - 17); c) college students (18 - 25); or d) adults (26 and up) play this game the most. If I had to guess, it would be option A, with C coming in second. Now, option A is a tricky one, because little kids are not buying these games; their parents are. Parents don't want to get their kids a difficult game because that results in lots of whining ("Daddy I can't do this!!!") and eventually results in giving / throwing the game away, which means the parents wasted thirty / forty dollars. If you want an example, I can assure you that the 8 - 12 age bracket was not the major one buying up Golden Sun; that game was simply to difficult.

Don't get me wrong; I would love to see all the aforementioned stuff (reintroduction of time and all that) in Diamond and Pearl. However (and I'm aware that my ignorance in modern technology and economics is probably showing), I think we (myself included) occassionally need a reality check.

And now is when I conveniently disappear to avoid the hornet's nest I've probably stirred up. :lol:

[Razola]

A) It wasn't off topic. It was clearly focused on what we wanted from Diamon and Pearl.

B) rinku has already admitted defeat, be it the standard "point and yell at Raz to stop being a meanie" method. I doubt it'll go on any further.

And there's a limit to how much the public is willing to pay. Cartridges are always set in price, regardless of development costs. They only raise prices based on big releases (like certain stores are selling Half-Life 2 for $55 instead of $50 because they know they can get away with it).

[Poryhedron]

I said this at the beginning, guys: A game that visits every region and explores it fully is a ridiculous idea. Someone suggestyed following the anime's route and dumping all but one pokémon when you cross over.../checks/ SWAMPERT1, that was. I'm sorry, but that's just laughable. Nintendo would never ever do that and I'm glad.
starjake brought up an excellent point: programming limitations. People forget that Pokémon has over 300 different playable characters. Most Final Fantasy games have fewer than ten. Heck, most games of any kind have fewer than ten. They also don't have anywhere near Pokémon's variety of attacks. There's a fairly large amount of "disk space" used up just on the characters, let alone the regions. If Diamond/Pearl has several regions, at least some will be GSC-Kanto-esque. People can bring up the greater power of the DS, but don't forget your own excited chirping about all of the other features being added as well. Those take up space just like the characters, attacks and regions.
Plus, here's something else to think about: visiting all of the regions means all of the 400+ pokémon should be catchable, as opposed to RuSa's shutout of a lot of older species. Common sense dictates that each area would have "version-exclusives"; pokémon only catchable on Diamond as opposed to Pearl, and vice-versa. Several regions means you'd have to trade a few dozen pokémon to finish the Pokédex (FRLG, without any of the 135 RuSa rookies, requires twelve trades just on version-specifics, let alone trade-evolvers and choices like the Fossils.) That'd get dangerously tedious.
Also, people complain about how old the "8 Gyms and Elite 4" is getting. How about "32 Gyms and Elite 16"? You want to talk about getting old? There you go!
In conclusion, stop with the "all of the regions" silliness already. It's not in any way a good idea.

[Red Angel]

I seriously doubt that memory space will be an issue, considering that the games would most likely be fairly simple graphically and the storage size of DS carts is at least a gigabit (1/8 of a gigabyte, I believe, or around 125 MB). That's huge in comparison to GBA carts, and I for one would gladly trade graphics for game length.

[PKMN Master]

I said this at the beginning, guys: A game that visits every region and explores it fully is a ridiculous idea. Someone suggestyed following the anime's route and dumping all but one pokémon when you cross over.../checks/ SWAMPERT1, that was. I'm sorry, but that's just laughable. Nintendo would never ever do that and I'm glad.
starjake brought up an excellent point: programming limitations. People forget that Pokémon has over 300 different playable characters. Most Final Fantasy games have fewer than ten. Heck, most games of any kind have fewer than ten. They also don't have anywhere near Pokémon's variety of attacks. There's a fairly large amount of "disk space" used up just on the characters, let alone the regions. If Diamond/Pearl has several regions, at least some will be GSC-Kanto-esque. People can bring up the greater power of the DS, but don't forget your own excited chirping about all of the other features being added as well. Those take up space just like the characters, attacks and regions.
Plus, here's something else to think about: visiting all of the regions means all of the 400+ pokémon should be catchable, as opposed to RuSa's shutout of a lot of older species. Common sense dictates that each area would have "version-exclusives"; pokémon only catchable on Diamond as opposed to Pearl, and vice-versa. Several regions means you'd have to trade a few dozen pokémon to finish the Pokédex (FRLG, without any of the 135 RuSa rookies, requires twelve trades just on version-specifics, let alone trade-evolvers and choices like the Fossils.) That'd get dangerously tedious.
Also, people complain about how old the "8 Gyms and Elite 4" is getting. How about "32 Gyms and Elite 16"? You want to talk about getting old? There you go!
In conclusion, stop with the "all of the regions" silliness already. It's not in any way a good idea.
It sounds silly, but it's just a suggestion... personally I'd love to see something like that... I mean, I almost *ahem* cry when I heard the Sevii Islands music, you know, the Johto re-mixes... it felt so great to hear some of those songs again in advance versions... it would be great if all the worlds could be seen in the same game... :p

[rinku]

Given the potential size jump of the cart (Ruby & Sapphire are about 16MB each), even with extra overheads due to improved sound & graphics, I'd expect a big world, just because they can do it. These things tend to have thresholds anyway - it does not take double the storage to double the size of a world, since the "building block" data does not need to be repeated. This especially true for areas that don't use a lot of dialogue or unique graphics.

One thing I don't think has been mentioned so far is the fact that the GS comes ready equipped to use standard wireless internet (NOT just the Nintendo house wireless net). If they want to, the GS could allow internet trading, or some form of online world (though I reckon the latter might be just too big a step as yet).

[Aarkan]

I belive it's allready been said but the gba link cable for pokemon battles sends something like 150kb/s so direct online play or anything (ever wonder why it pings over your pokemon right away in colosseum/stadium for battles?) would be pretty much impossible without using a similar system.

[Sceptile_Master]

Given the potential size jump of the cart (Ruby & Sapphire are about 16MB each), even with extra overheads due to improved sound & graphics, I'd expect a big world, just because they can do it.

Yeah DS carts can store up to 1 GB meaning even with the graphics and sound and stuff, they could easily fit all the four regions in it.

[starjake]

If you say so...

I don't know. It's like what someone said earlier: we already have 386 characters, all of whom have their own stats, their own movepools, etc...while most games have fewer than 10. Note that the ones with fewer characters normally have excellent storylines or puzzles or graphics or all three (final fantasy comes to mind)

And I can assure you that Nintendo will add more to the list of characters, not to mention new moves, new items, etc...add in all the regions, along with better graphics, a deeper plotline, time (and I'm probably forgetting a few things), and you have very little room.

Who knows? Maybe a gigabyte can hold that much...the term "gigabyte" means very little to those of us who don't speak fluent technology (such as myself).

This isn't to depress people; like I said, I'm all for having everything in one game. I'm just saying not to get your hopes up too far. Will there be new things? Absolutely, most assuredly, beyond any shadow of a doubt YES. Will it be the perfect game? Perhaps...but I wouldn't take that to the bank.

[Sceptile_Master]

Yeah but if GBA carts could fit a whole world in with just 16MB game space plus all the pokemon, that is only 6.25% of the space of a DS cart. They could fit in all the worlds GBA standard with only using something like only 25% of the chip used up. Then they have the rest of that huge amount of space to add everything else.

[starjake]

Ah.

Now, see, that I can understand.

*wishes somebody had explained this to him earlier*

[rinku]

I belive it's allready been said but the gba link cable for pokemon battles sends something like 150kb/s so direct online play or anything (ever wonder why it pings over your pokemon right away in colosseum/stadium for battles?) would be pretty much impossible without using a similar system.

Just had a look at the transfer rates for IEEE 802.11. The old 802.11b (Wi-Fi) is rated at 11Mbps, which is heaps faster than the link cable (0.150Mbps). The newer 802.11g standard is 54 Mbps, and has been in place since June 2003. For wireless internet, the bottleneck would remain connection type - dial-up accounts may not be able to take advantage of any DS internet networking since the majority of consumers (i.e. those in Japan and the USA) are probably on broadband.

In any case, I'm fairly certain that they could improve the response rate, since very little information is actually being exchanged. I mean, pokémon battles aren't even real time - they are turn based. The games just send over what moves are being used that turn and the results - a few dozen bytes of data each turn at most. I think most of the lag is due to excessive handshaking and validation.

Slow transfer times would not preclude some form of internet trading. Such a feature would certainly help address the issue of being a regional player like myself, or one without a trading network like Razola.

The more I think about this, the more I'm sure they will try to put something in place. There was already a past experiment with internet on the Japanese version of Crystal, and same-room wireless linking is clearly now the pokémon game standard.

[Razola]

starjake brought up an excellent point: programming limitations. People forget that Pokémon has over 300 different playable characters.
These "Characters" are nothing more than static sprites coupled with a few equations for stats and moves. This is fallacy.


Most Final Fantasy games have fewer than ten. Heck, most games of any kind have fewer than ten.
But they also have enemies with their own animations and attacks. Pokemon uses the allies as enemies as well. Also, we're talking sprites; not the 3D polygons of the FF series.



People can bring up the greater power of the DS, but don't forget your own excited chirping about all of the other features being added as well.
Play any Ogre Battle game, especially the one for the N64. It was HUGE. Nintendo can easily fit this stuff in. They just don't need to.


Those take up space just like the characters, attacks and regions.
Plus, here's something else to think about: visiting all of the regions means all of the 400+ pokémon should be catchable, as opposed to RuSa's shutout of a lot of older species. Common sense dictates that each area would have "version-exclusives"; pokémon only catchable on Diamond as opposed to Pearl, and vice-versa. Several regions means you'd have to trade a few dozen pokémon to finish the Pokédex (FRLG, without any of the 135 RuSa rookies, requires twelve trades just on version-specifics, let alone trade-evolvers and choices like the Fossils.) That'd get dangerously tedious.
Also, people complain about how old the "8 Gyms and Elite 4" is getting. How about "32 Gyms and Elite 16"? You want to talk about getting old? There you go!
If you actually put some variety of gameplay between them, it's not tedious at all. I'm actually thinking that each region would have it's own style of battle:

Kanto- Standard
Johto- 2on2
Hoenn - A more action RPG style, like Tales of Symphonia.
Orre - Tactical RPG like Disagea


In conclusion, stop with the "all of the regions" silliness already. It's not in any way a good idea.
It's more than possible. If Nintendo kept the static sprites with each attack having one animation for ALL pokemon like they've done for years now; it's easily possible.

You ignore the fact that other RPGs have enemies. Just because you can use them and thus have an extra attack option doesn't mean much.

[rinku]

Really, there will be sufficient storage for 3D or semi-3D if they want it *and* for all the previous regions, plus new areas.

The screen resolution isn't dramatically different on the DS vs the GBA, but the colour resoltion is another magnitude better. I'd expect prettier, animated 2D sprites in the battles and pokédex, with 3D effects for the walkaround, because I reckon that will work best on the platform. However, a 3D pokémon is a lot simpler than characters in other games; many are spheres with limbs (or not, as in the case of Voltorb).

Perhaps an option to flip between traditional top-down 2D and a panoramic 3D view of the terrain (with the double screen, you could have both at once). Scenery is a lot cheaper to do in storage terms than characters, especially if they go for a cartoon look.

[Sceptile_Master]

Okay I am here with a brief summary of that story I talked about earlier. Can't spend to much time typing it at the moment (I have my reasons) so here is just a really quick summary. Enjoy.

First world Kanto.

You start in Celadon city, and your dad now owns the game corner. He tells you to come (with your mate) to the secret room in the game corner (by pressing the switch behind the poster). So after alot of stuff you get your first pokemon (any of the starters from RBY, GSC, RuSa) depending on certain roots you take. Then Rockets in training bust into the place sating they are taking it back. You rush all the Rocket trying to escape wih your starter. At the end once you have beaten all the rockets and they retreat, your friend who has taken another route to escape meets up with you and you battle with your starter against the one he just aquired. Once you have won your dad comes up in surprise that you managed to drive off the rockets. Anyways you leave with your starter and your friend off down cycling road on a rented bike to Fushia. fight some cueballs and stuff down the way, you know the drill. When you get to Fushia, you find out that the rockets have now set there sights on the safari zone instead (I mean come on they something to control). You and your friend go to the safari zone where the rockets are and bust some mean ass puzzles (pokemon games need those) to do it all, while kicking rocket butt at the same time, does it get any better. Well yes it does. Once you have yet again driven off the rockets (it was hard as pokemon games need hard opponents) with the help of your mate a bit of the ever huge plot/story comes into play. A wise woman in Fushia would like to thank you and gives a Pinsir (pearl) or a Heracross (diamond) at lv 15 (a level or two higher than your starter at this point). She gives you mate the one that you would get in the other version. She also reveals the legend of the four protectors. She says one protects each region. Mew protects Kanto, Celebi protects Johto, Jirachi protects Hoenn and Mento(new pokemon) protects Orre. You want to look into this more so the kind woman tells you that you should visit Koga at the gym. When you reach the gym only Kogas best student is there, he says he will tell where Koga is (as he has gone out) if you can do something for him. he wants you to find him some stardust (for some reason). If you to slopokes house he now has a downstairs. After doing lots of cool puzzles you eventually reach slopoke. A scene happens where you see two rockets getting slopoke. You and your mate enter a double battle with them (one pokemon yours, one your mates (he controls his one). It doesn't prove to much of a challenge and you drive the two rockets off. Slopoke thanks you for your help and gives you some precious stardust from his collection as a prize. you ask him if he knows anything about the protectors. he replies that the rockets talking to him mentioned something like that (ooohhhh you want to know what don't you). Anyways You go and give the stardust to the guy and he asks you one more thing, to battle him. he only has a lv:12 drowzee and a lv:13 gulpin making him not too hard. He lets on that Koga is at lavendar town, for the opening of the ghost tower doubling up as a radio station (well, it was a radio station in GSC). Before you leave though he gives you safegaurd TM he says use it and the opponent status attacks will be useful. He says strategy is now on your side (but what does he know with such turd pokemon). You and your mate head to road leading to lavendar when you find a BIG twist in the plot.....

WHAT IS THIS TWIST.....FIND OUT NEXT POST WHEN I TYPE MORE, I HAVE ALREADY TYPED ALOT.

[Chris 2.1]

I think that if you had to compete in numerous leagues, for example, 3 or 4, it would just be as repetetive as playing 4 seperate games with 4 seperate leagues and 32 Gym Leaders, but this time, its in one game.

I'd prefer it if a massive new continent was made, which would probably have the first Gym at around level 20, and having them spaced out with much more content, with more stratergy puzzles, some Trick master-type puzzles or even just a heck load of Pokemon battling.

I thought Hoenn was big, but it would be cool having an even bigger one than that.

[Powarun]

Um, another cool thing that they could do is make mini games, like in stadium. Like have six different games, each one couid count as an EV for a stat or something. That way you don't have to just walk around and battle, but do something else instead.

[DarkestLight]

Hrm. I don't think having 32 Gyms would be a bad idea. Nor the possibility of haivng 3 groups of Elite 4. It could be done for the differed regions. What I'd like to know {and this was brung up in some other topic somewhere on these boards} is the missing route numbers, since Johto and Kanto have a gap between them numerically. Those routes could be utilized to keep some sense of continuity with the games.

But yes, the story does get tiresome. But that's ok, we can't get too much more advanced, the age bracket aimed for would not be able to capitalize on it so well. But honestly, if those last numbers were used, maybe then they could have it so the Pokemon, were highly populated in one area, but not so much the next. It would make sense as to why there are so many "new" Pokemon in a specified region, while in others the "old" ones reign supreme. Just a little enviornmental niche aspect that could be duly noted.

Hell, they could use the second screen as a full world map of all four regions, where the stylus could be used to bring up that regions' Pokemon, or to scroll through a list of them, so you can then actively look up their routes and devise the best way and time for you to catch these Pokemon/people/berries/boats/Legendary animal #435690/whatever the hell you need. The DS and Pokemon DP can really push this series forward in terms of useability and ingenuity, and hell, punt 3d, 2d is where its at for Pokemon, honestly.

...They better have some more type combos damnit. I need my Gho/Drg and Drg/Steel already. o.O...

Side note-Are all dragons {Excluding Legends} 3 stagers already? Brain cannot think right now.

[P0RYG0N]

Side note-Are all dragons {Excluding Legends} 3 stagers already? Brain cannot think right now.

Altaria

[DarkestLight]

Thank you. Knew there was one. Couldn't put my hand on it.

[Poryhedron]

What I'd like to know {and this was brung up in some other topic somewhere on these boards} is the missing route numbers, since Johto and Kanto have a gap between them numerically.
/blink blink/ No they don't.

Route 21: Sea Route between Cinnabar and Pallet
Route 22: Viridian City to Indigo League Front Gate
Route 23: Front gate to Victory Road and then to Indigo Plateau
Route 24: North from Cerulean, across Nugget Bridge
Route 25: With Route 24, Cerulean to Bill's Cottage at Cerulean Cape
Route 26: South from Indigo League Front Gate toward Tohjo Falls
Route 27: With Route 26, New Bark to Indigo League Front Gate
Route 28: Indigo League Front Gate to Mt. Silver
Route 29: New Bark to Cherrygrove
Route 30: North from Cherrygrove, past Mr. Pokémon's House

etc.

There is what some people would call a break between Johto (which gets up to Route 46) and Hoenn (which starts at 101,) but honestly, 101 is clearly intended to be a fresh new start. There doesn't have to be Routes 47 though 100 anywhere.

[DarkestLight]

o_o;

Ahh you are correct, that was my mistake. I can see what you mean about the fresh new start thing now. Ehh my point is moot n_n; ::Flitters away::

[Mister_Gadget]

Here (http://ds.ign.com/articles/558/558477p1.html) are some news about Pokemon Diamond, Pearl and Dash.

[rinku]

Here (http://ds.ign.com/articles/558/558477p1.html) are some news about Pokemon Diamond, Pearl and Dash.

I can't link to ign from my work computer (plus posting links was still not allowed last I checked).

Could you give a brief summary, assuming the news isn't already posted at Serebii and Pokefor?

[Sceptile_Master]

Bsically all it says is it is a pokemon rpg on the ds. And we didn't know that (sarcasm)

[Chris 2.1]

It also says that, when a Pokemon game Cartridge (like Emerald) is put in the DS when Dash is played, you can use your Pokemon as a race course! I didn't know this, and am unsure how it will work fully (ie: do you select a Pokemon in your party?) but it sounds like an interesting addition.

[rinku]

Could also be fixed on your lead pokémon. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

@Poryhedron: While the missing routes don't have to be used, I reckon they will use them in a new linking area if they are going to include all the old ones. Western Honshu and the Sea of Japan area are missing from between Johto and Hoenn, so that would be a logical place to locate them. There would be enough route numbers to make up western Honshu as well as Hokkaido (i.e. two new regions to complete the map of Japan).

On the Geography note - there are a few references to the real world I noticed in Leaf Green. Russia was mentioned, the US Space shuttle in the museum was either Challenger or Columbia and someone mentioned the July 20 1969 moon landing. Be interesting to see if Diamond/Pearl or its follow up game might take us outside of Japan...

[Razola]

It also says that, when a Pokemon game Cartridge (like Emerald) is put in the DS when Dash is played, you can use your Pokemon as a race course! I didn't know this, and am unsure how it will work fully (ie: do you select a Pokemon in your party?) but it sounds like an interesting addition.
What's the point of that? A sentret on Emerald A is going to look no different than one on Emerald B.

There's really no need to link to Emerald.

[Chris 2.1]

I just meant since Emerald is a game cartridge....Ruby, Sapphire, Fire Red or Leaf green could have otherwise gone in that space.

[Poryhedron]

What's the point of that? A sentret on Emerald A is going to look no different than one on Emerald B.

There's really no need to link to Emerald.
That's not what's being discussed. If you plug Emerald into the DS while the DS is playing the racing game Pokémon Dash, and you happen to have a Blaziken leading your Emerald party, you'll be able to play a race on a Blaziken-shaped course! Imagine the possibilities...

[Andrew]

I'd rather my head explode than be sucked in by some pathetic gimmick like that.

[Sceptile_Master]

This is about diamond and pearl. STAY ON TOPIC.

[Razola]

That's not what's being discussed. If you plug Emerald into the DS while the DS is playing the racing game Pokémon Dash, and you happen to have a Blaziken leading your Emerald party, you'll be able to play a race on a Blaziken-shaped course! Imagine the possibilities...
And we need to encourage those possibilities, not oooh and aaah over trite stuff that doesn't even require the technology.

And Sceptile Master, last time I checked, you aren't the mod. Discussions have a natural ebb and flow. This isn't off-topic, it's just where the conversation is moving.

[Sceptile_Master]

Hey. I made the topic to discuss diamond and pearl, its called a TOPIC. A pokemon dash topic would sort it all out. It's only fair.

[Mister_Gadget]

We know that Munchlax will be in Pokemon Diamond/Pearl, I think there will be a "male" version of Ralts, Kirlia and Gardevoir, it's Psychic and Girl/Woman, so the "male" version will be Dark and Boy/Man. The "male" Ralts will look like a rascal, the "male" Kirlia like a rebel, punk and the "male" Gardevoir like a gentleman, wearing a smoking.

[Sceptile_Master]

You can already get ralts as males.

[andyizcool]

You can already get ralts as males.
I think they mean a more Male looking form instead of wearing things that look like skirts.

[starjake]

Hmm...here's a good topic of discussion...what we think/wish they will put in for new pokes. Personally (pyromaniac that I am), I would like there to be some more Fire-types. I cannot understand why there is not yet a Fire/Dragon type (and why Charizard is not considered as such)...I mean, the two types seem to go hand in hand. Also, a Fire/Psychic type would be cool, though I've no idea what that would look like, for some reason candlabras always came to mind. A Fire/Water type would be awesome, like a steam type thing.

[Mister_Gadget]

We know that Munchlax will be in Pokemon Diamond/Pearl, I think there will be a "male" version of Ralts, Kirlia and Gardevoir, it's Psychic and Girl/Woman, so the "male" version will be Dark and Boy/Man. The "male" Ralts will look like a rascal, the "male" Kirlia like a rebel, punk and the "male" Gardevoir like a gentleman, wearing a smoking.

The "male" Ralts will wear a "rascal hat" (I don't know the name)

http://www.pufen.de/pufen/galerie/images/skiing1.jpg

The "male" Gardevoir will wear a smoking, which has an other name in english:

http://www.redding-outfit.de/bilder/sonstiges/smoking.jpg

[Poryhedron]

The "male" Gardevoir will wear a smoking, which has an other name in english:
Tuxedo.
And I do have trouble with male Kirlia, but I can see male Gardevoir as bishonen when I want to. The "dress" becomes this cape-thing. There's nothing particularly female about Ralts itself, either.

[rinku]

Another possible new one occurred to me while training up Eevees - currently we have 5 Eevelutions who have the same base stats numbers, but in different combos - 130, 110, 95, 65, 65, 60. None of the current ones have the top 130 base stat allocated to Defense, so I reckon there's a good chance they might complete the set with something like an Ice, Dragon or Grass *eon. Perhaps with an Ice Stone or Dragon Stone?

[WingullTrainer]

No, but gardevior just looks so weird, with it's one eye, and all. It's one psychic i don't like to use.

[Legends-Kuja]

Uhhh... Who wants a Meleeon?

Okay, I thought up of more story options. Knowing that D/P will be insanely large, an over encompassing story won't mesh too well if it's not simple, especially considering how big these Pokemon versions could possibly be.

Instead, I propose Game Freak use sagas in a similar fashion to the Pokemon movies/anime. Observe: (Note: I will refer to any generic evil organization as Team Enigma for now)

- Instead of just finding Legendaries in some out-of-the-way cave, have them star in a Pokemovie-like saga in optional towns. Take a port city. Now add Annie, Oakley, and any sort of Legendary Pokemon that likes water. Bingo, we have a Pokemon heroes adaptation.

-When you go diving, you can find a hidden underwater base, for instance. Inside the base, you can find some super-rare water types, as well as a story of perhaps a tragedy that destroyed the base. Heck, you could even find some survivors.

-The T.V? Use it for more than cheap advertising! ON NOES! Your Girlfriend just got kidnapped! The T.V's broadcasting it all over the world: if you wanna see her again, you meet Team Enigma in some abandoned warehouse for a Pokemon duel!

-Wouldn't it be cool if the Gym Leaders saved your ass from Pokemon/people every once in a while? Or how about you see a bit more of her profession? (Such as Erika's perfume)

[rinku]

Uhhh... Who wants a Meleeon?

Well, Flareon already has the 130 Attack. 130 Defense would be a bit better IMHO.

Pretty much would have to be between Ice, Dragon and any new elemental type introduced, since it would be odd that you'd suddenly be able to evolve Eevee to a Grass type when Leaf Stones have been around forever.

I reckon odds are good that we'll get an new type - probably elemental since that would bring the total to 9 physical, 9 elemental. Maybe Light or Crystal type.

[Chrono Storm]

I myself am tired of the silent protagonist that has manifested itself in the series. At least give us a list of personality types that you can pick from that will affect certain events in the game. I'd also like to see a bit more interaction between trainers and Pokémon. Natures should affect more than stats. Maybe there'll be a mission-quest thing where you just send your Pokémon and its nature affects how it completes the mission and what items you'll get. Of course you'd get to watch, which could lead to possibly humorous situations. A translator would also be pretty cool. You could talk to your Pokémon and they'd comment on the current situation based on their nature.

Also, I nth the calendar idea. Maybe they could make it sorta like the SNES Harvest Moon, where the clock stands still when the game's turned off and days aren't as long.

The characters should be more fleshed out. Maybe give the major characters a bit of backstory that would affect events in the game? Also, I liked how certain Gym Leaders showed up in events. It would be interesting if you went on little missions with them sometime during the game. I think that it would be cool if after you beat the last Elite Four(if there are more than one) the Team would practically take over the world, and the Gym Leaders and the Elite Four would help you take 'em down. Or the Elite Four could go the manga route and help the Team, and the Gym Leaders would divide, some with you, some with the Team.

The villains should be a bit more threatening. In RBY, Team Rocket seemed kinda bad, but you didn't feel THAT compelled to beat them. D/P's Team should kidnap a family member or put human lives in danger. Also, I think that the scientist in FR/LG who commented on Giovanni's kid might've been foreshadowing something...

[Jeff]

We can say "we want, we want, we want" all we want :P but in the end we all know how it's going to end up, Nintendo is just going to give us the same usual clone of all past Pokemon games (although I really hope it doesn't end up that way).

I personally would like to see a bigger land and more gyms, possibly through the inclusion of a former region, as with GSC. They should also bring back the day/night system, either real-time or Harvest Moon style, I really don't care. They day/night system from GSC was a nice addition and I was upset when I found out that it was taken out in RS.

[Crazy]

All I want to see is. 2D Graphics,more pokemon,more diverse and interesting regions,return of day/night,and actual moving 2D pokemon. Not just quick animations. I mean when a pokemon uses vine whip it moves and shoots out a vine.

[Carbonite4]

>Gold, Silver and crystal were revolutionary. Should the series go back to all the features and likness of gold, silver and crystal version. Alot of people don't have the newer games as they think they are inferior. Should the new games go back to how gold, silver and crystal was. For alot of people the feel of these games was superb. How everything reflected the mood perfectly. Like the first time you stepped into Ilex forest. Now the forests don't have much feel about them. There are so many reasons it should make a decent discussion topic.

>Are you tired of 8 badges and then the elite four. Should the story be changed. Also should the game have more of a longer and more absorbing plot, to make it into an epic tale. One that could possibly open a story line discussion forum. If so what do you think the story should be like/include. Also should there be more effort put into the after elite four or main story type thing (if you don't want the elite four) world. Alot of people find the islands very lacking and ruby and sapphire didn't have much.

Captured my views perfectly. I think GS were the epitome of the Pokemon series. I think the series should have the Gyms and such as a backstory, not a huge part of it. I personally would like the see Pokemon become less of an objective game and more along the lines of an adventure/RPG.

Look at Metroid Prime 2. Your mission was to get temple keys to unlock the Dark Temple to retrieve the energy and bring it back to the Light temple. However, there was hours of adventuring and stuff to do between when you were "assigned" this task and when you actually completed it. I'm about 6 or so hours into the game and I JUST completed my first "assignment."

Pokemon doesn't do this. It's "Get a badge, beat Team Rocket, get a badge, beat TR, repeat." There needs to be some sort of goal besides becoming a "Pokemon Master."

And I'm tired of having stupid "I'll use two quasi-powerful Pokemon with one good move" gyms like in RS. I want my opponent to be using at least 3 Pokemon who are performing at 85% or above (not 100%, because a Charmander/Charmeleon against an Onix would die). I want the gyms to be like bosses: someone who takes skill to beat. Someone who puts up a fight. They're gym leaders for a reason.

What I'd REALLY like to see is a Light/Dark storyline, where you can choose your affiliation. And not something at the beginning of the game ("What's your name? Are you a good guy or bad guy?"). Something like in Jedi Academy where you have a choice sometime in the game to become evil or not. You could even rise in the ranks. That would be awesome.

Also, I want to be able to team-up with people like Lance (in GS). I want to double-battle, with Lance as my ally. That'd be awesome, too. But nope. You get to fight two separate battles. Even in FR/LG it did that. Stupid.

Maybe you're on some sort of quest, and the gyms are just something on the side. "Oh, look, a gym, that looks like something fun to do." Not "I have to go beat the gym to continue the game." But not too far in the background like contests. Something where you can progress in the game to an extent, but you'll need to eventually beat the gyms to aquire HM abilities. Not as straightforward as it is right now.

I haven't played Colosseum in over 6 months, but could someone refresh my memory: wasn't there a subplot besides trying to defeat Team Snatch? If so, that's basically how I want the Gyms/E4 to be.

Oh, I and I want Pokemon Master status from now on. After I beat the E4, I want to be known as THE Pokemon Master. Even the Elite 4 bow down to me.

[Razola]

Gold and Silver weren't revolutionary at all. They just took the series and added a lot of stuff to it. Fine for a sequel (especially one on the aging Game Boy), but compare it to the original generation and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Giving the character...character breaks the roleplaying elements. The character is supposed to be you, or whomever you want to be. At this point it's tradition and I don't see a reason to change it.

[rinku]

And I'm tired of having stupid "I'll use two quasi-powerful Pokemon with one good move" gyms like in RS. I want my opponent to be using at least 3 Pokemon who are performing at 85% or above (not 100%, because a Charmander/Charmeleon against an Onix would die). I want the gyms to be like bosses: someone who takes skill to beat. Someone who puts up a fight. They're gym leaders for a reason.

One problem is that any pokémon trainer is easy to beat if you know what they have. All you'd need for harder gym leaders would be for them to have a stable of pokémon to choose from so that you can't utterly prepare. I do try to avoid looking up what they have the first time I fight them to make it more challenging.

Edit:
re making Gyms less central:
The main reason for the Gym/HM structure is to prevent trading in plot breaking pokémon too early. No reason the Gyms couldn't be demoted to a side plot though... in fact they did that with Ruby/Sapphire to a large extent. Certainly the Aqua/Magma storyline feels like more of a main plot than the Rocket subplot ever did. I'd hope that Diamond/Pearl would have a less linear plot and would accomodate trade-in pokémon problems in more creative ways (but I'm also not holding my breath).

[Outlaw JT]

> The new generation of pokemon. What are your views on nontendo adding new pokemon to the world. We all know munchlax is being put in, but are nintendo going over the top with the amount of pokemon they are adding. Should they round it off for the up and coming diamond and pearl games to something like a nice 400.

I agree that the number of pokemon is starting to get a little high but it isn't the simplest thing to just cap off the total number of pokemon. If they don't create a new batch of pokemon for each new generation of games then there is less incentive for people to keep coming back. Why buy a new game to catch only pokemon you already have? Even though the total number of pokemon in existance may continue to grow to obscene and excessive amounts, there is really no clear way around that if they wish to continue making original pokemon games. Sad but true.



>should the two up and coming games be set in a new pokemon region or one of the ones already made (kanto, johto, hoenn, orre). Would a DS version of the orre region (probably with wild pokemon) be intresting* (*note that this ties in with the next section). If you think they should create a new world what should it be like.

To be honest, I like how they handled this in the G/S/C era. They introduced a large brand new area for the main portion of the game and then opened up a familiar but changed area from. An area altered to reflect the passage of a great deal of time. So for my opinion on this issue, a new area with a time lapsed version of an existing one as a bonus for those who wish to keep playing after the completion of the main story.



>Should the pokemon extend to 3D graphics on a hand held system or should they be touched up 2D games like at the moment. As mentioned above it may be interesting to see how the developers would do orre in 2D.

I think overall it should be touched up and improved 2D graphics but perhaps making the battle system 3D would offer a good middle ground.



>How should the new features of the DS be used to enhance the gaming experience of these two new versions. Also how should the link between the GBA/media port be used to interact with these new games (eg. pokemon trading or mabye getting secret items like the mystery ticket on fire red and leaf green).

How about using the built-in microphone to issue commands to your pokemon by voice? Or using the touch screen to groom your pokemon for contests and to increase compatibility? Obviously, using the dual screens for you and your opponents sides of the battlefield. These are the first ideas that come to mind.



>Day, night and time in general. For all people who have fire red or leaf green you may have noticed that there is no in game clock. For some having day and night added was an unbelievable and hugely fun aspect of the game. Even though ruby and sapphire still had time alot of the greatness that made the time in gold, silver and crystal. Like pokemon appearing at different times and Buenas password only being aired between 6pm and midnight. Also the loss of being able to set the day was a big blow for some. Events happening on different days was very cool in alot of peoples opions.

I agree it was a really awesome idea and it added a lot of fun to the series. However, it also added a lot of frustration. It made it that much harder to catch every pokemon and as someone else said, it requires playing just about on every day and at every time. I definately think the night/day element should be used again but only night/day, split at a sensible hour like 6 or 7pm. Using the day/week thing again could be interesting and useful but I don't think anything crucial should be linked to it. Maybe contest schedules or item availability in one or two shops but it shouldn't be linked in anyway to story or pokemon catching.



>Added ubers evry generation now means there are two many. Some people think there are to many ubers. Should Nintendo stop adding them (Ties in with the adding a 4th generation of pokemon section of discussion). Should nintendo only allow certain ubers on certain versions (ties in with the next section).

I don't necessarily think they should stop adding them. As someone else said there have to be legends to hunt. I do think they should not keep adding so many. They went from having 5 to 6 to 9 in the respective generations. Sorry if my count is off. In any case, I think maybe just 4 new legendaries and perhaps a new chance to actually catch a couple that are impossible to attain without cheating. IE Mew, Celebi, Deoxys.



>Pokedex or exclusive pokemon. Ruby and sapphire has introduced another type of pokedex with certain pokemon. Should in an effort to limit ubers make a pokedex for each version. with some pokemon including ubers not being able to be traded to the other versions because they are not in the pokedex. This could allow each version to be more exclusive, or do you prefer it the way it is (having access to all pokemon in all versions).

I think the way it is down now is alright since you have to reach some benchmark in the game before you can trade with other versions. For the better part of the main story you are forced to rely on only those catchable in game but eventually you gain the ability to trade with other regions to attain all pokemon.



>Promotional events. Are nintendo going over the top with promotional events AND trading with newer versions. Are to many pokemon now hidden by tickets etc. Are nintendo making it to hard to get all of these special pokemon by having spread them over to many pokemon games. Even after red, blue and yellow (in gold, silver and crystal) it all the pokemon were already available in previous games and there weren't to many promotional events. The type of promo events and stuff were originally meant so that you would buy all the games to get all the pokemon (a marketing tactic), although this has forced people to not get the games therefore sales have stayed the same but the games are less fun. people who liked the series bought the games anyway.

Way overboard with the promotional events. I can't tell you how much it pisses me off that I could never legitimately have some pokemon just because I can't afford to travel to these darn events.



>Are you tired of 8 badges and then the elite four. Should the story be changed. Also should the game have more of a longer and more absorbing plot, to make it into an epic tale. One that could possibly open a story line discussion forum. If so what do you think the story should be like/include. Also should there be more effort put into the after elite four or main story type thing (if you don't want the elite four) world. Alot of people find the islands very lacking and ruby and sapphire didn't have much.

Absolutely! I would love if the main focus was more on the story and the gymn's were used as a side story. It is well past time there was a focus beyond becoming a Pokemon Master for these games and that is one of the reasons I actually loved Colosseum's story mode. The gymn's should still be a necessary part of the game but perhaps not until later. As someone else put it you would be able to progress a great deal further without beating the gymn's and would only have to beat them to clear a few select points in the game. Kind of like the colosseum battles are set up in Pokemon Colosseum actually.

[Misty]

Here's what I've been thinking of.

First, a bombshell that's going to get me at least one flame: I think Pokemon could learn something from Final Fantasy 7.

I want some story. And I want a main character with some personality. I want a powerful enemy - no, multiple powerful enemies - with some backstory. Not just "We're Team Rocket, we're evil lolz!" Nobody says they're evil. Magma and Aqua were better - but aside from the Team Leaders who you met all of three or four times, they were just an army of drones.

Actually, I think the next Pokemon should do something like the Magma/Aqua rivalry - but expand on it. Even throw Team Rocket in the mix. I want some gang warfare mentality going on here.

The one thing I want to see overall is a plot that I can enjoy - Reggie claims the DS is going to be aimed at an older audience than the GBA. I want to see something actually come of that. Pokemon is the thing that gets Nintendo pigeonholed above all for "kiddiness" - a Pokemon game that older gamers could enjoy would be the first step towards proving Nintendo is really interested in older gamers.

Another thing - I want a game with some length. Pokemon games are fairly long and have some nice replay value, but I want a game where the final boss is going to take on my level 100 Pokemon and have a good chance at winning. Or better yet - take on level 255 Pokemon and have a chance. Though that may be a bit much.

Graphics - my gut tells me Pokemon should stick with 2D, but take it to it's furthest level. I want to see Chrono Trigger detail with DKC's rendering. That would be a sight and the true epitome of 2D. And none of that character-on-a-square crap.

But why stop there? Another FF spin - FMV cutscenes. Not just Tales' handful, but lots of them. GBA Video uses some wicked compression to get 44 minutes of FMV anime on a 32MB cartridge - surely a 128MB cart(actually, allegedly there's already a game using a 256MB one) could hold a decent amount. Hell, FF7's FMV could be compressed to the point where the ENTIRE GAME would fit on a 64MB N64 cartridge.

[Scythemantis]

Why do you specifically name FF7? There are thousands of RPG's with a story. Pokemon could "learn something" from any of them. There is nothing about 7 that actually stands out...6 has a much better plot and characterization.

As for the graphics..The rendering in DKC may be pretty, but it's not really 2-d. They are computer generated models, cut and pasted to animate as sprites. That would look really ugly for pokemon......the main pokemon games should always be hand-drawn sprites. Look at the early Rayman games, Breath of Fire 3 & 4, Legend of Mana, and the Metal Slug games. All real 2-d and absolutely gorgeous.

[Razola]

Donkey Kong Country was absolutely gorgeous, so I'm not getting what you're saying.

[Misty]

FF7 broke RPGs from being a "hardcore" genre. That's what I want - I want a game that doesn't feel like a kid's game anymore. Pokemon has extremely deep gameplay; why can't the plot reflect that?

[Crazy]

So Nintendo can make more money. They can't make a more serious game without losing many of there younger fanbase,but they have made strides to older gamers. Such as EVs and Natures. They have found a way to make it more complex without losing much of their fanbase. It will most likely stay this way. Each time the inner working of the game will be more complex,but the story will still attract young followers as well.

[Misty]

But here's the thing - if Pokemon were to have an older appeal, it could reclaim some of the incredible fanbase that bought Red and Blue, and were later turned off for whatever reason(rehashing, kiddiness, etc).

[rinku]

They already tried "older appeal" with Colosseum. How this goes with the DS game is anyone's guess (You can't really use FR/LG or Emerald as a guide as they are all remakes. Basic pitch was not changed). I'd be confident that they have done a good deal of market research on this issue, but don't assume the results go the way you want them to. They could as easily conclude that they need to *reduce* complex content to broaden the target age group. Or, maybe they could introduce a difficulty level?

[Misty]

Difficulty levels would definitely be nice.

But the fact is, Pokemon's appeal is about as wide as it gets at this point. I'm not saying they should completely ignore the younger audience - in fact, my idea would be to develop Diamond and Pearl as normal Pokemon games, then develop the third version as an entirely different game with older appeal and probably some fanservice(think Yellow).

[Outlaw JT]

Here's a thought........why does giving diamond/pearl a more dynamic story have to ruin the existing pokemon gameplay experience. There are plenty of great RPG's out there that have awesome stories that aren't too mature for children to play. Kids may not fully appreciate all of the plot but they'd play it anyway for the gameplay mechanics they know and love.
Case in point the three Mario RPG games. Kids play them because they look good, are a lot of fun and it's Mario. Yet, they have a lot of humor in them that only an older audience can appreciate. Why not do the same thing with Pokemon? It works in the Mario RPG's, it works in the Shrek movies, they could make it work here.

In any case, I don't believe deepening the story for an older audience and keeping the existing focus and gameplay are mutually exclusive. It is completely possible for them to add touches and depth for the older gamer without changing the game so much that kids won't want it any less than they already might have.

[Misty]

Makes me think of Kingdom Hearts - a very deep game, but it's rated E. That's kind of a rarity in the RPG world(most substantial RPGs are rated T), but it's doable.

[andyizcool]

What makes me lose interest in playing Pokemon is after the main game you just need to catch them all for the Pokedex data or raise a Team to Level 100. They need some better longer side quests that'll give you more things to do after you beat the game. Pokemon FR/LG had the Islands but they were short and there wasn't really much of a plot there. If you look at the size a Nintendo DS cart can hold you would they would combine all the worlds or make one massive world. They could even make the whole game based on Earth and going everywhere in the world for Gyms, Tournaments and catching all the Pokemon.

[Misty]

The thing is, RPGs are always like that - once the quest is over, that's pretty much it, aside from some random sidequests which are generally short and unimportant. Actually, Pokemon has a distinct advantage here, because the trading and battling aspect extends its life far more than most RPGs.

[andyizcool]

The thing is, RPGs are always like that - once the quest is over, that's pretty much it, aside from some random sidequests which are generally short and unimportant.
Look at some Square-Enix RPGs and what they've done lately to make them longer or make you play them for more. Final Fantasy X-2 has a New Game+ feature so you can carry over most of your stuff and do the whole game again which will eventually get boring but it's still a good feature. Star Ocean 3 has a load of extra dungeons that you need a clear file to access them after you've beaten the final boss. Star Ocean 3 also has a Battle Trophy Collection where you have to work really hard if you want all 300 Battle Trophies. As for Pokemon I think they should add in a New Game+ feature so you start from the beginning again but with all your Pokemon and Levels. You may argue that you would be overpowered but going through the game again would help evolve weak Pokemon instead of keep doing the repetitive Elite 4 over and over again. A New Game+ would also make everyone happy because they can get those one time TMs again as they go through the game. Nintendo could even put in extra events if you're using a New Game+ like characters saying something different or a kid trading a different Pokemon. I just want to keep interested in a game that's good not keep doing the Elite 4 over and over until I've reached Level 100 or evolved weak Pokemon for my Pokedex.

[Poryhedron]

As for Pokemon I think they should add in a New Game+ feature so you start from the beginning again but with all your Pokemon and Levels. You may argue that you would be overpowered but going through the game again would help evolve weak Pokemon instead of keep doing the repetitive Elite 4 over and over again. A New Game+ would also make everyone happy because they can get those one time TMs again as they go through the game. Nintendo could even put in extra events if you're using a New Game+ like characters saying something different or a kid trading a different Pokemon. I just want to keep interested in a game that's good not keep doing the Elite 4 over and over until I've reached Level 100 or evolved weak Pokemon for my Pokedex.
Actually, a New Game+ feature for Pokémon would suck to extreme levels, because your pokémon that easily nuked the Elite Four wouldn't even dream of obeying you until you regain the Marsh Badge at least. You would be stuck with your new starter and anything else you catchusing the starter...in essence, it would be exactly like the first time through until you got the right badges to 'unlock' your old team.

[Lezta]

And none of that character-on-a-square crap.

But.... but....

Get rid of the 'squares' and it just stops being a Pokémon game. I just couldn't play it and feel like I was playing Pokémon. :\

[Scythemantis]

Donkey Kong Country was absolutely gorgeous, so I'm not getting what you're saying.

It's simple. DK looked nice, yes, but it consisted of 3-d images being used as sprites rather than hand-drawn sprites, and I just don't think that's a good style for pokemon at all.

This is an example of a hand-drawn, fully animated sprite (a Puspool enemy from Breath of Fire IV):

http://scythemantis.homestead.com/files/Puspool.gif

I find it a LOT prettier than DK's computer rendering. It'd be a crying shame if pokemon abandoned 2-d sprites forever.

[andyizcool]

That hand-drawn animation looks good and maybe they should try it in Pokemon Diamond/Pearl. I too would hate to see Pokemon on a handheld console go into full 3D because I really didn't like it that way on Pokemon Colosseum. When it's in 3D it looks like the character is walking slower so it's better to put the character on one square because that's always worked. The other idea would be to move around freely like Golden Sun but the the graphics sort of mess up a bit when you look at them in detail.

[Jeff]

I personally wouldn't care either way about the graphics. The thing that bugged me about colosseum wasn't the 3D but the girl that keeps getting in your way. As long as they don't do something like that, it'll be fine in 3D.

One thing I thought about not too long ago was that they should take advantage of the DS's wireless features. Obviously that's the only choice for trading/battling but they should also do other things with it such as have some item in the game that allows you to search for other people playing Diamond or Pearl and send messages to them. Or better yet you could even use the mic to talk to them. It would be a great way to meet new people with pokemon games and then battle or trade with them. And also they should take advantage of the WI-FI for battling over the Internet.

One more thing, I'm pretty sure this has been confimed but since DS games can communicate with GBA games (as confimed by dash) they should allow trading between G3 and G4. I don't want to have to go through all the trouble of buying even more games to get the pokemon I want.

[Misty]

One hopes they'll go for the RS compatability route - but who knows. Furthermore, I'd actually rather they just put all the Pokemon in the two versions, like good old Red/Blue.

[rinku]

I think you can assume that R/S onward will be forward compatible with Diamond/Pearl. Even if they add new abilities and features to the next generation of pokémon, there are plenty of ways to use the hidden values that already exist for those that require variables. New features that don't require new variables (i.e. which are determined by species, nature or gender) would obviously only exist in the new versions, but would not prevent backwards trading if the base data remains in the same format.

[Misty]

I'd like to believe that, but knowing Nintendo, I'm sure they'd love to squeeze more money out of us...

[Sceptile_Master]

Oh I'm so happy my precious topic is doing so well. It is the most popular topic I have ever posted. Anyways on subject, after seeing my friends DS (I live in europe so haven't got one of my own yet, he got his imported)I think that Nintendo may try and over use the stylus. In alot of DS games I've seen the stylus is used just for the sake of it being used. Not for being innovative and it is just making some of the games worse. Although I do think the stylus may suit pokemon games I am worried that they will just abuse the privalage of being able to use the stylus. Also I think thae ninty will probably make battles more animated and have the menu on the bottom screen and the battle on the top.

[The Muffin Man]

They used the backlight on the SP(ever notice certain games with less "bright" graphics, like Mario and Luigi Superstar saga and alot of the darker areas?)

The stylus is being used for a reason. If they didn't, people would whine it was "pointless". If they use it a lot it's being used "for the sake of being used". No one is ever happy.

[rinku]

I'd like to believe that, but knowing Nintendo, I'm sure they'd love to squeeze more money out of us...

They'll get more sales by retaining compatability. The Ruby/Sapphire break from previous versions was not a decision made lightly - there are people who refused to buy the new games because of it (though admittedly they are far outnumbered by those who could care less or who were new to owning pokémon). I think they'd know that there would be a serious backlash if the current games were locked out of the new ones.

In any case, I suspect they will deliberately exclude many of the current 386 pokémon from the catchables in the new games to *increase* sales of the current generation of games by new players who start with Diamond or Pearl. Nintendo have a vested interest in keeping old games selling or using them as bait for new consumers.

[Darkgel]

I bet there'll be a Time Machine in DP to trade from older versions (without cables! Imagine it: Place the old version in the GBA slot and the DP version on the DS slot: Voila!) Plus, I don't think that they go 3D prerendered so soon. I would really like them to stick to 2D, as it's closer to an anime-ish look.

Heh, I'm actually betting with everyone that DP are GSC remakes... XD

Plus, Lezta: I'd SO rather feel I'm playing Legend of Zelda while playing Pokémon. Everyone!

OUTSIDE THE BOX! OUTSIDE THE BOX! OUTSIDE THE BOX!

[Jeff]

I was reading something at SPP's DP forum and someone there actually had a really good idea about the DSG-AG compatability:

They could, after a certain point in the game, "update" the PC pokemon storage system so that the PC can simply access the boxes in the AG game in the GBA slot (if any). So you would just be able to move pokemon between the two games. Sounds like a really cool idea to me, but they'll probably just make it so you have to trade...

[Misty]

GBA games cannot link to DS games.

[Sceptile_Master]

GBA games cannot link to DS games.

Well that was the reason they called it media port other than just a GBA port. They could very easily make it done with the right games.

[Misty]

Even if a GBA game could be set to use the wireless setup, I'm pretty sure RSE/FRLG aren't.

[Sceptile_Master]

Well Ru/Sa didn't know colloseum was gonna come out in year or so.

[Misty]

That's different. Trust me.

[Sceptile_Master]

No it's not miyamoto has already announced that the ds can acces special features through GBA games with this port.

[Misty]

DS games can access GBA games - not the other way around.

[Jeff]

GBA games cannot link to DS games.

I was reffering to the PC system in the DP game being "upgraded" after you beat the elite four or some other event, so then, when you access the PC from within DP you will be able to see/move the pokemon stored on the AG game, and even move them between the two games (of course, restricting new pokemon, pokemon with new moves or pokemon holding new items from being moved onto the AG game).

[Sceptile_Master]

I know DS games can only access GBA games and not the other way round. But that can still allow trading.

[The Muffin Man]

I know DS games can only access GBA games and not the other way round. But that can still allow trading.

You do know what TRADING involves, right?

[Jeff]

I know DS games can only access GBA games and not the other way round. But that can still allow trading.

Right, trading between the two games inserted in A SINGLE DS would not involve the GBA game accessing the DS game. All you would need to do is play the Diamond or Pearl version with a Ruby, Sappire, FireRed, LeafGreen, or Emerald version in the GBA slot. We know that DS games can access GBA games so therefore the DS game can trade pokemon with the GBA Pokemon game by accessing that game's data. So I say it again YES it is possible.

[Misty]

That wouldn't be "trading" per se - it'd be more like transferring.

[Sceptile_Master]

Yeah but it would still be the DS looking at the pokemon on the GBA cart and copying it onto the DS chip and then the DS copying the pokemon on the DS chip and putting it onto the GBA cart. But deleting the pokemon once it has been copied so on screen it would be shown as trading. A bit like HTML, you never see the same thing as you type in.

[The Muffin Man]

But the GBA can't access the DS. The DS would have to be coded to take, and replace, the Pokemon. Thus I could grab my friends cart for a day, get all the good Pokemon I want, return it before he notices and have his lvl 100 team memorized(and some maybe even stolen and claim "I have no idea what happened")

[Sceptile_Master]

But the GBA can't access the DS.

And it can't access the Gamecube either but did that stop it from trading with colloseum.

[The Muffin Man]

And it can't access the Gamecube either but did that stop it from trading with colloseum.

I'm pretty sure the GC Link cable directly uploads the data.

[Sceptile_Master]

Why can't the DS do that.

[rinku]

It should be possible for them to design the DS games in such a way as to be able to trade with the older carts, even if that means coding in some kind of GBA emulator. My guess is that trading would be limited to those versions with the wireless adaptor. As long as the GBA/FRLGE/Adaptor is receiving signals that it believes are coming from a GBA/FRLGE/Adaptor, it will behave normally, even if the other unit is a DS/DP emulating one. That would be the simplest way of implementing it IMHO.

[Sceptile_Master]

Also they could introduce a cartridge that goes into the GBA slot and then the GBA clicks into that. A bit like a Gameshark looking thing, but for use with the trading. Cheating is bad.

[Silent Dragonfly]

Source: Serebii.net

CoroCoro has revealed a silhouette of what is apparently a new pokémon, named Rukario. It says it will feature in the next pokemon movie alongside mew, regirock, regice and registeel.



From the silhouette, it looks a hell of a lot like mewtwo with a big hat on to me. Or maybe it's a new D/P legendary?

[Misty]

It's going to be a legendary.

[Animelee]

Seems its name is Lucario when romanized, since its name backwords is pretty much the English word "oracle".

Anyways, yeah, I think it's going to be a legendary Pokémon, as well. It looks like it can somehow take traits from two Pokémon and change its form to become those two, or something.

You can view a big scan on www.filb.de

Bring on Diamond and Pearl! *Pumped like one of those frat guys*

Edit:

Okay, so now a lot of us are pretty sure this guy can take traits from two Pokémon and transform itself into some kind of hybrid of the two. What I'm wondering is if it could do this with all 500(?) Pokémon, with any two, or if they have to be fully evolved and share some kind of similarity, or something. Because, seriously, there's not really any similarity between Basharmo/Blaziken and Mew...

Imagine what a pain it'll be if GAME FREAK has to make sprite after sprite of Lucario's different potential forms! And imagine how lame it'll be if they're just two halves of two different sprites put together, heh.

Can't wait 'til Tuesday!

[Jeff]

Interesting...

Looks like a cross between Mewtwo and Blaziken to me so the crossing two pokemon thing seems to make sense.


Can't wait 'til Tuesday!
Why? Sorry can't read German :P

[Animelee]

I can't read German either, but Filb is my friend, and he speaks English. :)

It's been said that the more info about Lucario will be released on Tuesday on the official Japanese sites (www.pokemon2005.jp and www.pokemon.co.jp)!

[Sceptile_Master]

Yeah it looks like a Mewtwo/blaziken/medicham thing. That also means another legendary for n00bs to drool over though, soon they will be able to have 6 different pokemon in a team with a base stat total of 680 EACH. Oh weel let's hope the new pokemon are cool and some new moves along with them can make the game more intresting (not saying that it isn't intresting). I mean why release half of the new species with final forms or just one form with like a 370 base stat total. Meaning they are completely useless, it just makes the game more annoying and adds to the heaps of neglected pokemon in the junk yard. it would also mean more updates for my under used and unevolved guide, noooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

[SWAMPERT1]

It looks like Mew and Blaziken of course but I have a theory. Perhaps The new legendaries will be a combination of any starter from previous games + Mew. Perhaps in D / P there will be fusion evolution and you can take a starter's 3rd form + mew to a place and combine them(Since the pokemon would probably be gone after the fusion, you would only be able to get one of the fusion legendarys because there is only one Mew).

Also, it would be cool if each Legendary had to be formed in a certain place, like a Venasaur + Mew would be made in a Jungle area. Anywho thats my 2 cents.

[Sceptile_Master]

That is actually something I'd like to see in Diamond and Pearl. mabye a jungle bit.

[mr_pikachu]

I believe that theory was pretty much discarded quite awhile back, albeit in a different thread. While that certainly would have been interesting, if you think about it, making all the different combinations and their sprites would have taken up a heck of a lot of time. Plus, it would have been that much more data used up in the games.

[Ceipe]

> The new generation of pokemon. What are your views on nintendo adding new pokemon to the world. We all know munchlax is being put in, but are nintendo going over the top with the amount of pokemon they are adding. Should they round it off for the up and coming diamond and pearl games to something like a nice 400.


Considering the fact that pokemon from prevoius version will be able to be....what i beleive...sent to the DS cartige pokemon will NEED to be available in the DS game, so I'm hoping for 500+



>should the two up and coming games be set in a new pokemon region or one of the ones already made (kanto, johto, hoenn, orre). Would a DS version of the orre region (probably with wild pokemon) be intresting* (*note that this ties in with the next section). If you think they should create a new world what should it be like.


New generation, new pokemon, nez region is what I think. Though they could link it with the other continents, after all, they are on the same planet, right? And there are ways to travell through them, right?



>Should the pokemon extend to 3D graphics on a hand held system or should they be touched up 2D games like at the moment. As mentioned above it may be interesting to see how the developers would do orre in 2D.

As I said on the post related to this 2D 2D 2D, hehe



>How should the new features of the DS be used to enhance the gaming experience of these two new versions. Also how should the link between the GBA/media port be used to interact with these new games (eg. pokemon trading or mabye getting secret items like the mystery ticket on fire red and leaf green).


Online battle tower/union room merge, those who have a certain level in ONLINE (not offline due to gameshark cheats) Battle Tower to be able to access rooms of ppl in their sane category of battle tower wins and be able to chat in online battles. For me this would be way too cool.



>DV's or IV's and EV's. Should pokemon go back to the old Dv system. For alot of people it just felt right to use DV's and stuff, and made raising the pokemon more enjoyable for them. Ev training annoys people and some think it has ruined the true meaning Nintendo originally said about raising pokemon with love and they will become stronger. For some it just isn't true pokemon with Iv's and EV's.


IV's and EV's. This doesn't go against love and strength, howezver a TRUE pokemon ,aster also takes care that his pokemon has the right experience. So they will make sure that their pokemon not only don't die but have the right battling exp. As of the commentary someone ,ade (I don't re,eber zho, sorry bout that). He said that for example battling a metapod should increase ur attack; true; but ur focusing on one side of the coin. On the other side, u would learn from a highly defensive pokemon in this case how defense works, thus knowing better how to defend.



>Day, night and time in general. For all people who have fire red or leaf green you may have noticed that there is no in game clock. For some having day and night added was an unbelievable and hugely fun aspect of the game. Even though ruby and sapphire still had time alot of the greatness that made the time in gold, silver and crystal. Like pokemon appearing at different times and Buenas password only being aired between 6pm and midnight. Also the loss of being able to set the day was a big blow for some. Events happening on different days was very cool in alot of peoples opions.


Keep them, ok maybe u can't play all events cause of time dif, but.....that's why this game is going olnine, right? U will meet ppl who cqn help u zith that u look for as they have ur problem but can play on times u don't and vice versq, thus helping each other.



>Added ubers evry generation now means there are two many. Some people think there are to many ubers. Should Nintendo stop adding them (Ties in with the adding a 4th generation of pokemon section of discussion). Should nintendo only allow certain ubers on certain versions (ties in with the next section).


Ubers are for nààbs who can't make strong teams and need to use them in the game; that's why they are banned when rules apply, there ,ight be an online 6 on 6 battle that doesn't allow top tier ubbers to be used.



>Pokedex or exclusive pokemon. Ruby and sapphire has introduced another type of pokedex with certain pokemon. Should in an effort to limit ubers make a pokedex for each version. with some pokemon including ubers not being able to be traded to the other versions because they are not in the pokedex. This could allow each version to be more exclusive, or do you prefer it the way it is (having access to all pokemon in all versions).


It has been qnnounced that advance generation games will be compatible, so the national dex will still be available, though I think they should do a dex that includes all with the nez nu,bers rqther than the old.



>Promotional events. Are nintendo going over the top with promotional events AND trading with newer versions. Are to many pokemon now hidden by tickets etc. Are nintendo making it to hard to get all of these special pokemon by having spread them over to many pokemon games. Even after red, blue and yellow (in gold, silver and crystal) it all the pokemon were already available in previous games and there weren't to many promotional events. The type of promo events and stuff were originally meant so that you would buy all the games to get all the pokemon (a marketing tactic), although this has forced people to not get the games therefore sales have stayed the same but the games are less fun. people who liked the series bought the games anyway.


Over the top, yet I think that there should be online events where the prices are those promotionals, even making online torurneys where the winner takes an exclusive pokemon that stays out of the ubber limits. Giving it the obediance gene so that it can be breed (to get the best IVs and the right nature) yet keeping it exclusive.



>Gold, Silver and crystal were revolutionary. Should the series go back to all the features and likness of gold, silver and crystal version. Alot of people don't have the newer games as they think they are inferior. Should the new games go back to how gold, silver and crystal was. For alot of people the feel of these games was superb. How everything reflected the mood perfectly. Like the first time you stepped into Ilex forest. Now the forests don't have much feel about them. There are so many reasons it should make a decent discussion topic.


Keep up yhe good work, I like the advance generation over the 2nd generaion.



>Are you tired of 8 badges and then the elite four. Should the story be changed. Also should the game have more of a longer and more absorbing plot, to make it into an epic tale. One that could possibly open a story line discussion forum. If so what do you think the story should be like/include. Also should there be more effort put into the after elite four or main story type thing (if you don't want the elite four) world. Alot of people find the islands very lacking and ruby and sapphire didn't have much.


8 badges are fine by me, the level required on Crystql was enough to make it interesting. But as I said travell to the other islands should be available.

[Zcade0]

Hey, has anyone said that the guy who came up with pokemon drew 700 originally?? And with that much space on the cart (more for some spicific carts now, but they cost more), whats to stop them from adding all the worlds, different games according to age, a whole new world, and wi-fi? Also, the reason you idn't travel by foot in collosaum and XD was b/c a) it was to far and b) there are no pokemon and no one is really going to be standing in the middle of the desert.

[mr_pikachu]

Well, because they don't have that much more space. I agree that it'd be nice to have more areas, and many of us commented on that problem in RSE (it discarded Kanto and Johto, while GSC made of point of keeping the old area). However, there's only so much you can do with a cartridge that's an inch long. Don't forget the necessity of storing the Pokemon data, which is a lot more complicated now.

[Razola]

Size of the cart is a silly argument, but I think you realize that.

My guess is Diamond/Pearl won't be Wi-Fi and we'll have to wait for Platinum version or some crap like that to finally get official internet play. I hope I am wrong, as Wi-Fi would make it a worthy purchase even if it continues the trend and does very little to change the series.

[Dark Dragonite]

What I would like to see, I've seen in other games, not sure if DS can pull it off...I learned of the "nightmare system" in which, the parts you have the most trouble with come up more and more(MegaManX8), it would be more challenging...Also, a thing like in Amazing spiderman, where you have options to do side quests, and get rewards if you do it right, would make it worth playing more.

[Poryhedron]

...Also, a thing like in Amazing spiderman, where you have options to do side quests, and get rewards if you do it right, would make it worth playing more.

Okay, perhaps I'm not understanding you right here, because side quests with prizes have been a part of Pokémon for a while now. The Battle Tower, where you win prizes after getting X-number of wins in a row, has been in the game since GSC, RSE had Shoal Cave where you could do a fetch quest and earn the useful hold item Shell Bell every time you did so, Crystal had Buena's Password, which sorta counts...heck the TMs you can win in the slots minigame can even fit into this category.

[Dark Dragonite]

No, I mean like, save someone from danger(I don't mean the scientists in the labs) and get a rare pokemon you can't normally catch in that specific version, I dunno, in SM, you get I guess they would be awards for saving people

[Razola]

I would like decent AI for once. The older games were so easy to exploit it was a joke.

[Zcade0]

Ya. The olny person that were remotly challenging was the water, ground, and rock gyms (and elet 4 if they had them). (I always pick fire type) and combuskin's second type took out the rock fearing. And I really hope we gon't have to wait till were 48 to get wi-fi. And I don't see how size of the cartreger has anything to do with it. Nintendo's philosopy: smaller = more power. seriously. Everytime they supershrink, you get more stuff on your game. And gameboy carts can't be that small. Look at Tales of Phantasia. That game takes forever and has a reall-time battle system. Its not even remotly turn based like Final Fantacy Advance is.

[mr_pikachu]

Even the newer games are easy to crush most of the time, and that's when you're playing with Pokemon of lower levels than your opponents. (Why is that Mightyena using Odor Sleuth on my Kadabra... again?) The Elite Four's only challenging until you get your Pokemon up to an equal level as those of the E4 members and raise enough money for a few Hyper Potions and Revives. The only sections in any of the games that I find truly difficult are the Battle Tower/Frontier areas. In GSC, the Tower just had ridiculous luck, and its counterpart in RS actually wasn't all that challenging. In my opinion, the Frontier in Emerald has been the first in-game feature that is both fair (as far as I can tell, at least) and really tough.

As for cartridge sizes, I'm just saying we shouldn't be expecting five regions, 3D real-time (i.e. not turn-based) battling, and an array of WiFi features to go with 500+ Pokemon. (Although, admittedly, a game with all these features would be simply unbelievably incredible.) I would definitely like some more areas and quests, as that would obviously add more gameplay. But realistically, they've probably got some features planned that haven't even been hinted at yet, and I doubt they'll want to spend too much time and money trying to figure out how to pack a half-dozen lands and those other features onto one cart. It's not just the technical capabilities, even, but the programming process as well.

And yeah, they'd have to add a good amount of trainers to those new lands, too, and that sort of thing takes time. That's especially true if the regions were to all have a bunch of "unique" characters of their own like Gym Leaders, which would prevent them from simply reusing their other sprites.

[Razola]

We also need higher level content. Gold/Silver kinda had it, but something a bit meatier. Running the Elite 4 over and over is not fun to get pokemon to 100.

[Drago]

Dammit, I want to see hardcore consequences, the kind that makes children cry. A winner takes all match, where the loser relinquishes the Pokemon they fought with. A challenge that, if failed, you miss out on a kickass Pokemon or item. A storyline that changes depending on your gender (dating gameshows, you know you want it :heh:) My demands are simple, I want the Pokemon franchise to mature like I have. I know that's not going to happen.

A more logical request; I would like for the Pokemon to feel more like they're 'with you', somehow. I felt kind of lonely despite having a belt-full of beasts. It was cool having Pikachu follow you around in Yellow. I dunno how else that could be implemented, though.

EDIT: I suppose a simple way to feel less 'alone' is to make your starting Pokemon actually part of the plot, in a sense. A part where it jumps out of the ball and you have to follow it, 'Where is ____ going?', simple crap like that. It could be uniform for all of the starters, or, bestill my foolish heart, different depending on the starter you chose.
ie., you're getting hassled by a rival trainer. Whereas the water starter would be mellow and let it slide, the fire starter gets pissed off and thrusts you into battle. Or the grass starter takes a cheap shot, and you have to run like hell. Now that'd be sweet. Just means you'd have to have your starter with you at certain times crucial to the plot. It's just a goofy little idea I came up with, but I'm kind of fond of it now.
EDIT2 because it's not worth making a new post: Key point above, you'd have to have your starter with you at certain times. Not constantly, just at certain times. Seriously, without new (albeit entirely stupid) crap like that we just get the same rehashed game again and again; I want my Pokemon to actually be... well, alive? And yeah, my wonderful theory also means you can't trade your starter (you want to trade a starter, just breed the punk and pawn off their offspring). How devious.

[Rabid_Cow]

Not to put rain on your parade, but you can always deposit a poke. If you couldn't deposit the poke it would make the game too much like other RPG's. (i.e. FF series...) Pokemon offers variety, and that's what the people always come back for. More new pokes and new things to do.

[mr_pikachu]

Maybe it'd be like Ash's Pikachu, who has always been in the lineup with very few exceptions (Ash vs. Gary in Johto, for instance). Maybe it won't let you deposit or trade it! :eek:

Of course, I suppose that'd make it difficult to complete the Pokedex, especially if you couldn't drop it off for breeding purposes either...

*has visions of Yellow*

[Razola]

In yellow you could trade and deposit the rat. Shit, they even let you evolve him on other carts.

[mr_pikachu]

Yes, I know. But he got pissed when you did any of those things.

[Razola]

Yes, I know. But he got pissed when you did any of those things.
No, he was quite content with being a Raichu. He even started going inside his Pokeball.

[mr_pikachu]

Pokemon Japan releases the first DP screenshots! (http://www.pokemon.co.jp/game/ds/dp/dp01.html#newstage)
Ooo... battle screenshots, too! (http://www.pokemon.co.jp/game/ds/dp/dp02.html)

So, yeah. Pokemon Japan has some DP screenshots on their website now. For those of you who don't want to follow the link, here are some copies of the pics:



http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/8757/dp01image017zd.jpg
Trainer battle On the beach The big city

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/4645/dp01image039kd.jpghttp://img60.imageshack.us/img60/3825/dp01image056lg.jpg
Male Female

http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/4411/dp02image019vu.jpghttp://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8242/dp02image038zt.jpg
Manyula vs. Munchlax Munchlax vs. Manyula


It would appear that the new field maps are going to be in a pseudo-3d format (but likely still retaining the traditional 2d gameplay for movement itself). And the battle format appears to be largely the same as it has been since RBY, just with further updated graphics.

Discuss!

[Nace]

To be honest I kinda died a little when I saw these. So far it looks like the exact same game we've played, what, 11 times now?

Eh... still, too early to tell if they're going to include the same hidden numbers and "elite 5" plot, but I have this feeling of dread I just can't shake.

[Crazy]

I'm actually happy, I was worried they'd change it into some fugly fully 3D game.

[Outlaw JT]

All I can say is DP better have full WiFi support for battling and trading. There's no excuse for it to not include this essential feature for a DS game of this nature. No WiFi and I skip this generation and just start a new game on an old game if I get a Pokemon jones.

[mr_pikachu]

Never fear!

Wait... what's this? (http://www.gamefreak.co.jp/COLUMN/gfcolumn.html)

For those of you who, like me, can't read Japanese, here's a summary of the relevant info, courtesy of an N-Sider article (http://www.n-sider.com/newsview.php?type=story&storyid=1619).


Game Freak's Pokemon director Junichi Masuda said in his latest blog entry that he would like and intends for people to be able to play and communicate internationally with the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection portion of the next Pokemon titles Diamond and Pearl for Nintendo DS. Meanwhile, Masuda admits the game is still quite far from completion but assures they will make full use of all the DS unit's functions.

[Razola]

That's an embarrassment. I guess the series really is just a soulless money tree for Nintendo to harvest every few years.

[Heald]

For some reason I was flicking through this topic and came across this awesome post :

http://www.pokemasters.net/forums/index.php?topic=32040.msg522146#msg522146

If Gardevoir, as a male, wore a tuxedo, had a top hat and smoked a pipe, I'd buy this game, and a DS, plus some towels to clean my trousers.

Also, Raz, what exactly are you referring to in your post?

[Poryhedron]

Probably the complete and utter lack of real sweeping innovation.
"Oh, boy, we're looking at the same exact overworld engine from a slightly different angle now! That's amazing!"
"Oh, boy, they've got a whole new background image for the same exact battle system!"
Seriously, Final Fantasy gets ribbed for its recent lack of innovation from game to game, but it's had more basic engine innovation than the core Pokémon games.

[Heald]

Okay, some points, which some of you might think are controversial, and have probably been mentioned before, but you're actually wrong, so shut the hell up.

1) Yes, we want innovation, but there are some things that cannot be changed, the things that actually make it a Pokemon game. Pokemon games have to have that battle system, but they do keep changing it. Things such as weather, abilities, hold items, double battles have kept making the battle system different and interesting. Even if they don't add anything, it is still the core element of Pokemon games. People didn't complain about all the Mario games when all you had to do was jump on people's heads, or whine when all Sonic did was run around really fast and spin attack robots. On the other hand, when Konami changed Metal Gear Solid's battle system to some kind of card trading game for Metal Gear Acid on the PSP, this was, on the whole, very poorly received. Change isn't always a good thing, and there are core values to that game that are necessary.

2) Nintendo has pretty much fucked over its original fans. It was people like me, back when I was 10, that helped Pokemon get off the ground. We're the ones that bought the games, bought the Game Boys, traded and battled and signed up to stupid Pokemon forums. Then they released crap like a card game and a cartoon and toys to dilute it and make it into a kiddy franchise. I'm 18 now and probably the only person I know that still gives two shits about Pokemon. I still enjoy the games but I won't be able to maximise their potential because no one above the age of 12 will admit they actually play Pokemon. So when the only way to fully enjoy Pokemon is to have 20 other friends who enjoy it as much as you do, then that's fucked up. The only game I know that 20 people have and play is PSP Pro Evolution Soccer.

3) Full Wi-Fi compatibility for trading, battling, contests and pretty much everything is a good thing. It might actually encourage real trading. As Raz pointed out somewhere earlier in the topic, there is actually no such thing as trading - people only did trade-backs to fill up their Pokedexs. With full Wi-Fi compatibility, I'd be able to peruse the world market for potential trades and add variety to my team - no one wants to train up 200 Pokemon for variety, but if you're bored with one of your Pokemon, you can trade it with someone else and give your team some variety. Battling is also good - back when I was 10, I was the best in my region. No one could step to me. I got bored. I wanted a real challenge. With Wi-Fi I can actually get that challenge, plus learn other people's tactics.

4) The above point encourages training, but I want only visible stats training and the like. Raz mentioned earlier that things such as EVs, IVs, PVs and all that other bullshit and crap like PokeRus are pointless to the game and only give sad nerds an advantage, and there is nothing worse than giving sad nerds the advantage. Scrap them I say.

5) Another point I agreed with Raz on is having an open-ended RPG rather than the usual 8 Gyms, Elite Four, plus some shit about Team Rocket or Team Horsedick and then you get to fight and capture another damned legendary. Hell, I want to be able to join the team and try and commit robberies, or maybe join the police force and get a Growlithe, or join the Nurse profession and get a Chansey. You shouldn't just be forced to try and become TEH ULTIMATE POGEYMANZ MASTA EVAR!1!

6) Adding more Pokemon is a must, but as long as they're useful and people might actually use them in battle, or they're actually different. I'm tired of them introducing Ratatta and Pidgey clones that annoy you in the first ten routes or so. Also, Zubat should be banned from Pokemon. No one likes Zubat, its shit. Also, I'm tired of only ever seeing Tentacool when surfing. Either make them only common on one route/cave/sea or make them uncommon everywhere.

7) HM Flash is useless, both as a move and as an HM. There are only like 5 caves in the entire series that you need Flash to navigate and it really is stupid. Take it out of the games.

8) That's all I can fit in at the moment.

But yeah, I think we all know this game is going to be dogshit.

[Ali]

LIES. I'm seventeen and I still freely admit to playing Pokemon! In fact, I go around at school going "PLAY POKEMON GODDAMMIT I'M TIRED OF BEING THE ONLY ONE WITH THE GAME."

...Okay, that might make me a loser, but still!

On topic: Why oh why is 'graphic improvement' such an important thing? There have been several games that had really good graphics but complete utter crap. In fact, I'm hoping that the reason why there hasn't been much improvement is because they're saving space for a crapload of awesome shit. Maybe they'll be cutscenes? I know I would've liked something snazzier that the overblown sprites that appear when you battle the Elite Four.

Although I think they should've made the background better. Like, make it actually look like you're in a forest or a lake or a gym when you battle.

[Crazy Elf Boy]

Well i am sixteen and i still play the game and so do two of my friends i ddon't care if people think i am a loser thats their opinion but i still like to play pokemon because i grew up with it.

[Psychic_legend]

I'm 16 and new on this forum,I play Pokemon and I'm addicted to it. I just can't let go of it. And i play my Pokemon games on the computer (gamboy emulator) much easier to see than on a gameboy.

[Jeff]

Apparently more Diamond and Pearl info was dug up a while ago, here it is courtesy of Bulbanews: http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/More_Diamond%2C_Pearl_details_revealed

Yay, day and night!

[Heald]

Day and night has been brought back because the Nintendo DS has its own internal clock, not a shitty little Lithium battery that GSC had. Which is a good thing I guess.

I'm incredibly annoyed Manaphy needs another game entirely to catch it. It is just blatant exploitation. The only Pokemon games that are actually any good are the original RPG ones, not any of these shitty spin-offs (although Troizei was a good puzzle game, albeit the only reason they gave it Pokemon licensing was to appeal to kids). Dash, Ranger, Pinball etc can all munch on my taint for all I care. Now you learn that you or a friend has to buy an entirely different game unrelated to this generation to get one of them. Unlike the spoilt little brats that Nintendo pander to, I'm not rich and I'm not buying some shitty spin-off just to get another Pokemon. Likewise, I'm not going to waste money in going to a convention to download a ticket to get whatever legendary they are going to put in this. I've had enough of Nintendo's shit. There's interactivity and then there is blatant exploitation to squeeze as much money out of a franchise as possible. Not even EA are as dirty and underhanded as Nintendo, and they own the Sims, one of the biggest cashcows in history.

[rinku]

Hmmm... has it ocurred to you that with world-wide wireless linkups, getting a trade from someone who has a spare Manaphy might not be that hard? Especially if it's just to complete the pokédex and you're trading it back.

Pretty much shoots down that issue, I'd have thought. Just like it shoots down the issue of buying both versions because you're isolated.

Unless, of course, you haven't any friends. :)

[rinku]

I've previously posted my hunch that they'll set it in Hokkaido and go with an Ice theme. Glacia is from somewhere far away from Hoenn, after all.
...
I reckon time will return, and since the game is guaranteed to be played on a backlit screen they'll put back in night effects (personally, I'd make it a game option. Some people only get to play at night). DS *should* have a reliable clock and calender as it's meant to have diary functions built in. I'd expect the pokémon games just to use the system's clock time.


Score and score ;)

[Heald]

Hmmm... has it ocurred to you that with world-wide wireless linkups, getting a trade from someone who has a spare Manaphy might not be that hard? Especially if it's just to complete the pokédex and you're trading it back.

Pretty much shoots down that issue, I'd have thought. Just like it shoots down the issue of buying both versions because you're isolated.

Unless, of course, you haven't any friends. :)
You raise a good point, but it is still the principle of the matter - you should have to buy 3 or 4 other shitty games to get something in a good game.

[mr_pikachu]

Hmmm... has it ocurred to you that with world-wide wireless linkups, getting a trade from someone who has a spare Manaphy might not be that hard? Especially if it's just to complete the pokédex and you're trading it back.

Pretty much shoots down that issue, I'd have thought. Just like it shoots down the issue of buying both versions because you're isolated.

Unless, of course, you haven't any friends. :)

I agree... sort of. The problem is that it could be hard to establish any degree of trust. For one thing, it's hard to say how often you'll be able to link with the exact same person. And for another, are you going to hand a rare legendary to someone you've never met in person, on the hope that they'll be kind enough to trade it back? That could create quite a potential for rip-offs...

[rinku]

Well... no. I'd not trade a rare promotional away just on trust that it would be returned with just anyone, but if I had more than one of them, I'd happily trade it for something of value. It's just a case of finding someone in that situation; people at promo events are often able to get multiples. Since it IS a trade, which needs mutual approval, it's hard to get actually ripped off if it's not intended to be a tradeback. I can certainly see two people trading promos or shinies. Or a really difficult to organise moveset.

Where it will be of much better value is for trading more common pokémon that are cartridge exclusive. I still have not gotten the Fire-Red/XD exclusives yet, because I don't have a local trading partner. Now I know I won't have to buy Fire Red or XD to get them (I already have a Wi-Fi broadband at home, and should have a DS by the time DP is released). Plus any that are Diamond or Pearl Exclusive - I KNOW going in that I'll only need to buy one cart. Any forum like this one will provide a source of basic trading partners.

[mr_pikachu]

Box Art: What the...?!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/03/Pok%C3%A9mon_Diamond_Japanese_Boxart.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d2/Pok%C3%A9mon_Pearl_Japanese_Boxart.jpg
Pokemon Diamond Pokemon Pearl

For those of you who have seen YGO, I swear, the Pearl one looks like it's wearing a Duel Disk. WHAT THE HELL.

[rinku]

Actually, they both remind me more of something from Neon Genesis Evangelion... I like the designs. I can look at them and say *that* looks like it could be the Master of Something...

New pics up of an evo for Roselia! I am a happy Green Master! Kawaiiiii...

[Crazy Elf Boy]

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/n06_0715_newpoke2.gif

Some how I think this pokemon will be the new Rattata/Sentret/Zigzagoon

[Heald]

Well at least that looks interesing - Sentret and Zigzagoon were so damn boring in design.

[Jeff]

It's an electric type, so it's more likely to be the next Pikachu/Pichu/Plusle/Minun. Yet another electric rodent, at least it's not a freakin rat and has an original design though so I'm happy with it (one of my favorites in fact). There's also that new one most likely related to Volbeat/Illumise, it probably has a Tyroge-like relationship to them.

[Everoy]

There is a decent possibility it could be the next Rattata/Sentret/Zigzagoon, considering we had a very common Dark type, Poochyena, in RSE.

I just checked Serebii, so I saw those new pokemon. They aren't very clear pictures, that disappoints me. Here's the pic of Roselia's evo, I grabbed it from pokemonelite since Serebii has right click disabled; The pic of the pokemon jeff mentioned wasn't on pokemonelite yet.
http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/n06_0720_rozureido.jpg
It's called Rozureido. I lurves it, and it makes me like Roselia a lot more...

The other pokemon is called Korobooshi, and in my opinion it looks like a roach standing upright wearing an Elizabethian collar with plungers for antennae, but that's just me. It's not a great picture. Like Jeff said, it's being speculated that it is related to Volbeat and Illumise. (It took me a while to realize they weren't on the same evolutionary chain when I was playing Sapphire o.o;)

So far, I like Weavile (I hate the name though), Buizeru (i'm thinking a name combining otter and some body of water), Tamanta (I wouldn't be surprised if the name stays), Pachirisu (I'll die if NoA names it Elecsquirrel or something equally dumb), Cherimu (awwwww....), and Rozureido (again, I'll die if NoA names it something stupid like Roselarge XD).

[Dark Dragonite]

All pokemon are now to be named after best selling books, the new roselia evo will be rose red...lol

[Jeff]

Kevvaelli, if you have Firefox, you can drag the pic from the page to your desktop (that hasn't been disabled) or you can turn off Javascript and right click will work. (Tools > Options > Content tab, uncheck "Enable JavaScript"). I just tried both and they work. Unfortunatly the Korobooshi pic is blurry.

That Roselia evo is pretty cool looking, hopefully it will actually be useful.

[Everoy]

Yeah, I have Firefox, I'll do that real quick...

[Crazy Elf Boy]

I sooooooooooooooooo can't wait for the game to come out, and everyone is right new electabuzz evo = crap. But I like the little squirrel one. :cool:

[Razola]

Let's throw in more pre-evolutions that serve no function! Great idea!

[rinku]

Can't see any way a Roselia evo *won't* be worth it. Roselia is already a useful in-game and breeding pokémon now; an evolution would expect to have better stats and a few more moves (although possibly not - it already has one of the biggest and most varied level-up movesets).

I kind of agree with Razola about useless pre-evos... but how useless they will be depends to a large degree on what moves they learn or can have bred on them. R/S used new pre-evos to allow several extra attacks to be added to existing lines. They also allow in some cases a choice of breeding movesets (cf. Marill -> Marill or Azumarill). And some pre-evos make better contest pokémon than their parents (especially in Cute contests).

Besides, to a large degree those pokémon exist for out-of-game reasons, such as plush toys and anime-fodder.

[Phoenixsong]

Uh... maybe Korobooshi is a pre-evo, but it sorta almost looks the same size as Volbeat/Illumise. Maybe it's a third version that can be either male or female? Its colors (from what I can see in the bad pictures) look similar enough to Volbeat's that it might be exclusively related to him, too.

Hey! I know what evo-Electabuzz's English name can be! How about Uglybuzz?! It's a walking shag carpet, how stupid is that? I'm hoping and praying it's just an Elekid alternate evolution... I don't even like Electabuzz that much and I don't want it to turn into that... that... thing. Urgh, Uglybuzz...

All I know is that I really want Buizeru and Pachirisu, even though based on what I've done in previous games Pachirisu is probably the sort of Pokémon that I take all the way through the first playthrough of the game, start over and then never use the thing again. Like it'd get on your nerves if you use it too often, you know? Maybe it evolves into something less cliché and irksome that doesn't get old after a few gym leaders. And Weavile... I... need... it...

What I'm REALLY looking forward too, though, is the rumor that they're changing the attack system. You've probably heard... they're saying that moves will no longer be special or physical based on their type but on whether or not the move requires contact... so, for example, Hyper Beam (usually physical because it's Normal-type) would become a special attack, where as Thunderpunch will become physical. Which makes a heck of a lot more sense, really. Of course, it'd totally undermine the older system... for example, my special-sweeping Salamence's Flamethrower would still be useful, but because Crunch and Dragon Claw are contact moves they'd become physical and therefore less useful, thus screwing up my hard-trained Salamence. And I dunno what that means for the ever-present Earthquake... ah, well. It's not confirmed, and the fact that it would mess all of the Advance generation up gives it a good chance of not happening. I can still dream, though... imagine. Sneasel and Weavile would finally be able to get STAB bonuses AND still use their Attack stat with moves like Faint Attack and Ice Punch, and Jolteon and Espeon would actually be able to have diverse movesets for a change... *imagines creaming a Gengar with a Shadow Ball-ing Espeon* Ah, bliss... no more scrounging around for decent Hidden Powers... please let them change the system!

[mr_pikachu]

Y'know what would be interesting (at least in my opinion)? Well, we already have branched evolution. What if we had, in essence, reverse-branch evolution? Like, take the Volbeat & Illumise example. What if that new Pokemon that most people seem to think is a pre-evo is actually the next evolutionary stage... of both Pokemon?

That might actually make for some interesting possibilities. For instance, you could plan whether you wanted your fully evolved Korobooshi to specialize in Physical or Special attacks (or something else; say, Tanking). It could accumulate stats differently based on whether it was initially a Volbeat or an Illumise, and then you could design a moveset to suit what it's best at. Furthermore, that sort of thing could add some real unpredictability in tournaments, if Korobooshi was strong enough to be legitimately useful.

Of course, that might require a complete overhaul of the EV/IV system... but hey, I can dream, can't I?

[Razola]

Eevee has already touched upon various routes of evolution, though I wouldn't mind seeing the mechanic explored further.

[Heald]

Of course, that might require a complete overhaul of the EV/IV system... but hey, I can dream, can't I?Or, even better, they could take EV/IV out completely, because it's arbitrary and shit! Yes!

[Hatake Kakashi]

The new Electabuzz evo looks kick-ass.

Jesus. You people bitch when a name is "stupid"(Weavile. Vile Weasal. Gasp), or "too unique"(Umbreon. Umbre + Evolution). Then you bitch if a Pokemon is too cute or too ugly.


Or, even better, they could take EV/IV out completely, because it's arbitrary and shit! Yes!
Really. It was just another way for people to "standardize" certain Pokemon.

[rinku]

IV has always been in, and is needed to allow one member of a species to be different to another without training. This is such a fundamental part of the game I'm surprised anyone has a problem with it. Likely to remain just how it is , though it would be good if you could get something to rate their potential in-game.

Some sort of effort system is needed to reward players for training. The current system is highly unlikely to change, however it would be nice to get the stats unhidden, which could happen. It's not exactly "secret" info, as you can keep track of each win to know exactly how much training you've done.

[Razola]

Or, even better, they could take EV/IV out completely, because it's arbitrary and shit! Yes!
My name is Razola, and I approve of this message.

I mean, there are MMORPGs that require less grinding than the EV/IV system.

[Phoenixsong]

I guess that's true... it sucks, having to do all that counting and crap when raising Pokémon used to be just... you know... fun. Beat something up, no matter what it is, and still get the same benefit.

What really annoys me is that Pokémon have any stat differences at all. What's the point of making Pokémon with bad stats? People only ever use the good ones in competitive play anyway, so they might as well not have made things like Mawile, Mightyena and Beedrill in the first place. What they should have done is make a few different stat sets: physical sweep, physical tank, special sweep, special tank, balanced offensive, balanced tank and balanced in general; as far as base stats and such every physical sweeping set would be exactly the same as any other, for example. Then the only decision you have to make is "Whose character design and moveset do I like more, Mightyena or Absol?" Because they'd both be equal, stat-wise... then the only advantage would lie in the moves you chose and how you used them and not annoying hidden numbers that only the "Pokémon elite" know about. Furthermore, people would actually be able to use Pokémon they liked and not get their butts kicked just because of it. I happen to like Mightyena, for example, but if I wanted to use it in serious play I would die. Therefore, if I want an offensive Dark-type I have almost no choice but to use Houndoom or Absol, and if I don't like those, well... I might win the battle, but I won't be happy with how I did it. (Okay, I actually do like Absol and Houndoom, but still...)

Sadly, this can never be; the backwards compatibility means that they have to use the Advance generation system, and this won't change. Crap.

[Heald]

It also makes no sense. Levelling up makes sense because experience will make Pokemon better. In-game, two people could plausibly have a conversation like this :

"My Glalie's Ice Beam beat that Dragonite in one shot!"
"Wow! That must mean it is a really high level!"

On the other hand, this sounds retarded :

"Yeah, I guess I just beat that Rhydon with my Kecleon. What EVs do you think I'll get?"
"I think Defence, maybe 1, what are its IVs like?"

Last time I checked, I thought Nintendo were giving us the illusion that these are meant to be real beasts. By trivialising that and instead filling up their games with 351 Excel spreadsheets, that's just crap. If I wanted to battle with Excel spreadsheets, I'd play a football management game or something.

[Everoy]

The new Electabuzz evo looks kick-ass.

Jesus. You people bitch when a name is "stupid"(Weavile. Vile Weasal. Gasp), or "too unique"(Umbreon. Umbre + Evolution). Then you bitch if a Pokemon is too cute or too ugly.
Really. It was just another way for people to "standardize" certain Pokemon.


I like those names...

[Poryhedron]

It also makes no sense. Levelling up makes sense because experience will make Pokemon better. In-game, two people could plausibly have a conversation like this :

"My Glalie's Ice Beam beat that Dragonite in one shot!"
"Wow! That must mean it is a really high level!"

On the other hand, this sounds retarded :

"Yeah, I guess I just beat that Rhydon with my Kecleon. What EVs do you think I'll get?"
"I think Defence, maybe 1, what are its IVs like?"

Last time I checked, I thought Nintendo were giving us the illusion that these are meant to be real beasts. By trivialising that and instead filling up their games with 351 Excel spreadsheets, that's just crap. If I wanted to battle with Excel spreadsheets, I'd play a football management game or something.

IVs make sense for emulating real creatures. Some people are just naturally stronger or smarter than others before the benefit of training. If you want to enter somebody in a chess competition, you don't choose the guy who tends to drool on his math tests. IVs are a way to standardize these differences in talent. In fact, the newest version of IVs is closer to real life than the old one because it allows for a broader variety of talent. I do agree, though, that the old effort system, Stat EXP, was much better than the EV system as far as emulating real life.

[Everoy]

I've never really cared about EV/IV, so I don't really care one way or the other.

[Heald]

IVs make sense for emulating real creatures. Some people are just naturally stronger or smarter than others before the benefit of training. If you want to enter somebody in a chess competition, you don't choose the guy who tends to drool on his math tests. IVs are a way to standardize these differences in talent. In fact, the newest version of IVs is closer to real life than the old one because it allows for a broader variety of talent. I do agree, though, that the old effort system, Stat EXP, was much better than the EV system as far as emulating real life.
At heart, Pokemon is basically two things with four moves each and whoever has the best moveset and strategy wins (provided they are the same level). EVs/IVs draw away from the core of the game so now it doesn't really make if you're a decent strategist, if you're up against some nerd who went the extra length to max out his EVs, you're screwed.

[+conspiracy+]

IVs are NEEDED... there NEEDS to be some kind of difference between two pokemon of the same species... and dont forget about the o so useful hidden power :D

as for EVs... I dont care for them, but they do give the game more strategy, and make it more competetive



EVs/IVs draw away from the core of the game so now it doesn't really make if you're a decent strategist, if you're up against some nerd who went the extra length to max out his EVs, you're screwed.


erm wrong... as stated above, one messed up EV could be the difference between a win and a loss, and the only reason I say this is because I am a competetive battler, I'm just guessing that you are competetive, just not to the point where you care about how your poke grows, but in that case you shouldnt be fighting people who do because its not much of a fight as you said lol... you're screwed.. :D

[Heald]

erm wrong... as stated above, one messed up EV could be the difference between a win and a lossThat's exactly what I said.

IVs I can live with, but I don't fancy fighting 520 or so battles with each of my Pokemon (and bear in mind I usually have about 10 or so that I reserve for competitive battling) just to get their EVs up. However, IVs are uncontrollable in any case and therefore if you lose a battle purely because your main Pokemon in your team has shit IVs (and you can't really test this as it is a hidden feature) then that is complete bullshit and they should be taken out.

IVs and EVs would only be acceptable if you could actually see them in some stats screen, and then only just.

[Razola]

Personality is difference enough between two pokemon.

IVs are just are grind and encourage min/maxing. I want to win because I am a better player, not because doofus took the time to kill 1,000 pokemon beforehand.

EDIT: the system would be fine if: there was a fucking bar/meter/etc. showing progess. and it took like half as long to do what you want to do with IV/EV shit.

[+conspiracy+]

well.. you cant get everything you want can you =P

but yes, I would love it if a ev meter were implemented, and with the screenshots of DP that I've seen with all these new screens, I wouldn't be surprised if there is one.

[Razola]

well.. you cant get everything you want can you =PNo, but as a customer I can voice my opinion as to what I want.

[Venasaur89]

I think that we have gotten tired of the same storyline ...... I would like collecting badges but the elite 4 is much boring. I would like to see as it is in the anime.....battling the trainers . and the regular trainers should also be stronger.....

[frylock]

these IVs.... never payed much attention, but from what I hear they suck, this may be why my lombre was so horrible and couldn't attack worth crap.... Oh well..

As for EVs I was wondering how do you know how many EVs you need before its maxed for each pokemon and its level?

and also with IVs: how do you know anything about them, should you catch the pokemon 10 times and figure the stats and natures effects, because if so forget that I quit competetitve play, (I've never done it anyway)!

EDIT: I figured out these EVs but still have no clue on IVs, but I think I have the patience to do that, in fact I am!!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! I will max out EVs and smash all pokemon in my way! prepare for battle (just kidding but I will play around with it!)

[Elec Man EXE]

Everyone seems to hate IVs so much.... do you really want 2 given pokemon to be IDENTICAL to one another if they have the same personality, as far as stats? That seems incredibly boring to me, not to mention unrealisitc. 2 dogs of the same breed are not going to be exact duplicates of one another, both possessing 100% equal skill when it comes to all things.

As for EVs... I don't see the problem there either. Maybe its a bit too much as it is now (though really, using Vitamins + Macho Brace lowers the time taken to get your pokemon EVs down to about an hour, I should know having trained 3 full boxes of pokemon with EVs and all). But it lets you specialize a pokemon, and gives real competitors an edge, just as real life. If you've got 2 people, 1 who practices the bare minimum (leveling) and one who does a LOT of practicing (EVs), obviously the 1 who does more practice is going to be better unless the first has an innate ability in whatever the 2 are practicing for.

[Number1ChanseyFan]

[color=magenta]Meh, IVs don't bother me a whole lot, and I like the personality features that were introduced. IV's really aren't all that different from the DV's in the older games anyways. The EVs are what kinda irritates me. It isn't so much the time involved that it takes to EV train, that doesn't bother me at all. I just hope to find a shiny while I EV train!! The thing that I really hate is that each Pokémon is only allowed 510 total EVs. If they could all get their 252 EVs in every stat, (or at least every meaningful stat for that Pokémon.) then that would be great. However, the way it is, just about every Pokémon has to be specialized, either relying on physical attacks or special attacks, as opposed to a mixture of both. And then you have to decide whether you want your Pokémon to be able to do a ton of damage, and then faint after it gets attacked once or twice, or if you want a Pokémon to be able to take a couple of hits, and not really do any damage at all. I think they are making things a little too complicated, and trying to make the game a little too true to life. I mean yeah, in real life, if Pokémon were real, an Alakazam's Fire Punch probably shouldn't hurt as much as a Machamp's or a Hitmonchan's... but jeez, it doesn't have to be literal, it is a game afterall. The way they keep changing the battle system, pretty soon they are going to start offering an Intro to Pokémon course at college. XD

[Poryhedron]

[color=magenta]It isn't so much the time involved that it takes to EV train, that doesn't bother me at all. I just hope to find a shiny while I EV train!! The thing that I really hate is that each Pokémon is only allowed 510 total EVs. If they could all get their 252 EVs in every stat, (or at least every meaningful stat for that Pokémon.) then that would be great. However, the way it is, just about every Pokémon has to be specialized, either relying on physical attacks or special attacks, as opposed to a mixture of both. And then you have to decide whether you want your Pokémon to be able to do a ton of damage, and then faint after it gets attacked once or twice, or if you want a Pokémon to be able to take a couple of hits, and not really do any damage at all. I think they are making things a little too complicated, and trying to make the game a little too true to life. I mean yeah, in real life, if Pokémon were real, an Alakazam's Fire Punch probably shouldn't hurt as much as a Machamp's or a Hitmonchan's... but jeez, it doesn't have to be literal, it is a game afterall. The way they keep changing the battle system, pretty soon they are going to start offering an Intro to Pokémon course at college. XD

Agreed. I don't mind the fact that you have to earn better scores through effort; I just think the classic Stat EXP was better than Advance Gen's EV System.

[frylock]

IVs have to be in the game, but I think they should only effect stats earlier on in the game. (you shouldn't find out at the end of the game that your team is garbage because the just are.)

[Razola]

IVs have to be in the game,Why?

[rinku]

IV's DON'T have to be in the game in any absolute sense. But the concept was a key part of the original game design and is highly unlikely to ever be changed in general terms. The game designers intend that there is variation between individual pokémon of a species that is out of the trainer's control. It leads to the sub-games of breeding for better stats and/or searching for wild pokémon with superior stats. It gives an important tool to a knowledgable trainer over a casual or ignorant player.

You don't need to have a deep knowledge of how it all works to make it work. Apart from your initial starter and legends, you just catch or breed a bunch of the species you want and use the one with the best stats (the Brawly method). Now, having said that, some kind of field gadget to help evaluate wild ones would be great. Even one that worked on IV point totals in a "this is a very strong pokémon/this is a very weak pokémon" manner would be good. Hope we get one.

[Heald]

IV's DON'T have to be in the game in any absolute sense. But the concept was a key part of the original game design and is highly unlikely to ever be changed in general terms. The game designers intend that there is variation between individual pokémon of a species that is out of the trainer's control. It leads to the sub-games of breeding for better stats and/or searching for wild pokémon with superior stats. It gives an important tool to a knowledgable trainer over a casual or ignorant player.

You don't need to have a deep knowledge of how it all works to make it work. Apart from your initial starter and legends, you just catch or breed a bunch of the species you want and use the one with the best stats (the Brawly method). Now, having said that, some kind of field gadget to help evaluate wild ones would be great. Even one that worked on IV point totals in a "this is a very strong pokémon/this is a very weak pokémon" manner would be good. Hope we get one.Trying to find the right Pokemon or even the right Pokemon with the right kind of Personality or stats or whatever is arguably the very worst part of Pokemon. I hate having to grow through the same patch of grass for about an hour trying to find what I want and so does everyone else. Why doesn't Nintendo just realise that it is a waste of time, cut out the middle man and just make all the Pokemon you can catch as strong as each other.

The fact is, anything that you put in a game to make it more challenging but making it far less enjoyable in the process is terrible game design. That is Video Game Design 101 - make your game challenging, but make it fun. To be honest, going around grass for half an hour doesn't make a game challenging or fun, it just makes it annoying. However, because Nintendo can get away with shitty game design as long as they slap Pokemon on it, they really couldn't give two shits about the gamers.

[Elec Man EXE]

If you don't like trying to find stronger pokemon you don't HAVE to Heald. Its not vital to the game, and its perfectly beatable without even knowing that IVs exist at all.

The only time IV's become vital is when you go into competetive battling. And (to me anyway) its perfectly acceptable to have to work a little harder when your playing against other people, and thats how it is in everything. You really want to be successful competitively, you have to do a bit of extra work. Being an RPG, there's really no "practice" involved like there would be in something like a FPS, so to similate that you've got IVs/EVs. Something to give an advantage to those who are really "serious" about it.

You just want to play and beat the game, IV's don't matter in the slightest except for making it a tad easier. Going to fight real people? The ones who are going to spend the most time are going to be most successful.

The problem seems to be (and this is not to insault you or anyone else, just an observation) that players want to be instantly competetive at the highest level, with no real effort on their part other than simply leveling the pokemon. Even in other games, thats not the case.

I can't pick up a game, play through the single player mode, then go into multiplayer and expect to be as good as the top players who have been playing multiplayer for months.

[frylock]

Trying to find the right Pokemon or even the right Pokemon with the right kind of Personality or stats or whatever is arguably the very worst part of Pokemon. I hate having to grow through the same patch of grass for about an hour trying to find what I want and so does everyone else. Why doesn't Nintendo just realise that it is a waste of time, cut out the middle man and just make all the Pokemon you can catch as strong as each other.

The fact is, anything that you put in a game to make it more challenging but making it far less enjoyable in the process is terrible game design. That is Video Game Design 101 - make your game challenging, but make it fun. To be honest, going around grass for half an hour doesn't make a game challenging or fun, it just makes it annoying. However, because Nintendo can get away with shitty game design as long as they slap Pokemon on it, they really couldn't give two shits about the gamers.

I do agree, I think that IVs shouldn't mean that you have to look for hours to find the pokemon with the perfect stats and such, but I do think that if you run into a level 5 poochyena and then run into another level 5 poochyena they should be a little different. The difference between the two though, should be only when you catch them. the first poochyena shouldn't be better all the way throughout the game, just early on in it. Basically IVs are a way to mix up the game in a way, but they shouldn't have any long term effects.

[Poryhedron]

I do agree, I think that IVs shouldn't mean that you have to look for hours to find the pokemon with the perfect stats and such, but I do think that if you run into a level 5 poochyena and then run into another level 5 poochyena they should be a little different. The difference between the two though, should be only when you catch them. the first poochyena shouldn't be better all the way throughout the game, just early on in it. Basically IVs are a way to mix up the game in a way, but they shouldn't have any long term effects.
I don't see how that makes any sense at all. Doesn't it kind of ruin the entire point of IVs? Why would they go away?

[Foguet]

The only thing I hate more than IV's is Effect Spore. It is so boring, not only to find the Pokémon with better stats, but to give it the necessary EV! Especially when you're trying to focus on a certain stat. For example, f you want to train Alakazam, it's completely forbidden to battle things like Machamp, Banette, Salamence, Armaldo, because they'll just fill you up with useless Attack EV... so you lose all those Exp points you could get. And if you want to train a Machamp, never, ever fight something like a Magneton, Jynx, or Vileplume, for the opposite reason. The worst of it all is when you're looking for just one kind of EV and it seems that all Pokémon who give out that particular EV have disappeared.

I hate IV and EV to death. Nevertheless, I wouldn't eliminate them. Why? For the same reason that some of you have listed above. With EV, you have to work hard to get the strongest Pokémon, and you can be proud of your job when you beat someone who only bothered to level up the Pokémon. It's like cycling, or football, or any kind of sport; you can't train once a week and then expect to be as good as those who train every day.

[Poryhedron]

It is so boring, not only to find the Pokémon with better stats, but to give it the necessary EV! Especially when you're trying to focus on a certain stat. For example, f you want to train Alakazam, it's completely forbidden to battle things like Machamp, Banette, Salamence, Armaldo, because they'll just fill you up with useless Attack EV... so you lose all those Exp points you could get. And if you want to train a Machamp, never, ever fight something like a Magneton, Jynx, or Vileplume, for the opposite reason. The worst of it all is when you're looking for just one kind of EV and it seems that all Pokémon who give out that particular EV have disappeared.
This is the beauty of the old effort system, Stat EXP. You didn't have to worry about putting effort into the wrong stat because there was no cap on total effort. You got all the good things you mentioned about having EVs, without any of the bad points in the above quote.

[rinku]

This is the beauty of the old effort system, Stat EXP. You didn't have to worry about putting effort into the wrong stat because there was no cap on total effort. You got all the good things you mentioned about having EVs, without any of the bad points in the above quote.


I prefer the current setup *with* the Emerald fix to allow you to remove unwanted effort. It seems a total waste of time to have to do all that training *just* to get back to a level playing field (i.e. all stats maxed out). May as well just battle with freshly caught wild ones. The Advanced version of it makes trainers *design* their pokémon's final stats, which is a good thing IMHO.

[Foguet]

The problem with the Emerald fix is that, even though you can "delete" unwanted EVs, you've still got to obtain the ones you need. And for example, SpD EVs are not so common, so it's still hard work to find them. But I still prefer things this way, because with Stat Exp, two Pokémon with the same DV always end up being clones, while this doesn't happen if you are forced to spread EVs.

[Elec Man EXE]

All the effort values have easy-to-get areas to get the EVs.

Attack: Shuppets in Mt. Pyre
Special Attack: Spinda on Route 113
Defense: Clamperl, Underwater near Sootopolis
Special Defense: Tentacool, pretty much everywhere you go while Surfing
Speed: Zubats in pretty much any cave, and exclusively in Altering Cave
HP: Whismur in the tunnel at Verdanturf

All of the above are very common (or sometimes the only thing you find), and you can rack up your desired EVs very quickly. And 4 of the 6 are quite weak (either bad defense, low level, or both), so you can start your EV training at a low level to minimize the amount of unwanted EVs you get before you finish your EV training.

[rinku]

HP is even easier - Marril give 2HP each. I use that pond just north of Mauville; even with the lower encounter rate of water, it's quicker there.

My preferred SpDef training area is R114. Swablu and Lotad give 1 point, and Lombre give 2. Not such a good place on Ruby, but great on Sapphire and pretty good on Emerald.

[Foguet]

All the effort values have easy-to-get areas to get the EVs.

Attack: Shuppets in Mt. Pyre
Special Attack: Spinda on Route 113
Defense: Clamperl, Underwater near Sootopolis
Special Defense: Tentacool, pretty much everywhere you go while Surfing
Speed: Zubats in pretty much any cave, and exclusively in Altering Cave
HP: Whismur in the tunnel at Verdanturf

All of the above are very common (or sometimes the only thing you find), and you can rack up your desired EVs very quickly. And 4 of the 6 are quite weak (either bad defense, low level, or both), so you can start your EV training at a low level to minimize the amount of unwanted EVs you get before you finish your EV training.

Try that when you want to get 252 Speed EV on some Pokémon. That means at the very least 126 very annoying battles with Zubat. Same goes for Spinda, Clamperl, Tentacool...

[Phoenixsong]

If I may...

Speed EVs: The best place to train for Speed is Route 118. Surf east of Mauville and run around in that clump of grass before the supertall grass of Route 119... the only thing you can find there that DOESN'T raise Speed is Kecleon, and that has about a 1% chance of appearing. Wingull, Electrike and Zigzagoon each give 1 Speed EV; Manectric and Linoone give 2. If you have Macho Brace and Pokérus you shouldn't need to fight any more than 63 Pokémon total--less if you find a lot of Manectrics/Linoones--and if you gave your Pokémon 10 Carbos first, then you don't need to fight more than 38.

Special Attack (Emerald only): Spinda's great and all (I'm starting to get sick of the things from all the SA training I've had to do the past couple of months), but don't forget Slugma. Everywhere I read about SA training people never mention the Slugmas you can find in Emerald, which also give 1 SA EV. Of course, if you're in RS then you're stuck with Spinda, but still...

Defense (Emerald only): The Magma Hideout in the Jagged Pass has absolutely nothing in it but Geodude (1 Defense), Graveler and Torkoal (both give 2 Defense). There's no place better for Defense training.

Attack (Emerald only): An alternative to the Shuppets is Routes 122 and 123, between Fortree and Lilycove. While you don't find exclusively Pokémon that raise attack, you can find Poochyena and Mightyena in abundance (1 Attack and 2 Attack, respectively), more Shuppets in Route 123 and the occasional Absol (2 Attack) in Route 122's supertall grass. Like I said, it's not *exclusively* Attack EVs, but because there are two Pokémon that give out 2 EVs sometimes that goes faster for me. Also good if you normally train in Mt. Pyre and will explode if you see another Shuppet. :)

So yeah, most of those only work in Emerald. Then again, because of places like that and the added effects of the Kelpsy, Pomeg etc. berries, Emerald is just plain the best game to EV train in if you've got it. If not, well... you can make do.


Did anyone see those silhouettes on Serebii? That Mukkuru thing that might be the "new Pidgey" and that... other one? Maybe it's just me, but I look at that second one and think "lion cub". I hope so...

[Silent Dragonfly]

Did anyone see those silhouettes on Serebii? That Mukkuru thing that might be the "new Pidgey" and that... other one? Maybe it's just me, but I look at that second one and think "lion cub". I hope so...


Maybe Aipom will stop being filled with so much suckage now that it can evolve ;)

[Phoenixsong]

No one said it evolves from Aipom; only the ears look like it. The rest of it doesn't resemble any sort of primate at all, and it appears to be small. I HIGHLY doubt it evolves from anything, let alone Aipom. We'll see, though.

[rinku]

Try that when you want to get 252 Speed EV on some Pokémon. That means at the very least 126 very annoying battles with Zubat. Same goes for Spinda, Clamperl, Tentacool...


Um... you can purchase 100 effort with vitamins, then it's just a matter of 76 battles with the Macho Brace, or 38 if you have pokérus. And as Phoenixsong mentioned, R118 gives better effort than Zubats. In any case, Golbats give 2 speed effort - there are planty of caves where you can reliably get 2 base speed effort per battle.

[Elec Man EXE]

All of those work, but I try to get my EVs with the lowest-level opponents as possible, just so I can mindlessly spam attacks without paying much attention (watching TV at the same time usually).

Plus, I like the lower levels because then you can kill them in 1 hit, and in that way you can use your PP to help count your EVs instead of just keeping track in your head.

[rinku]

Well, I have to admit, I usually have a fully trained, high level lead to do the damage and the trainee on EXP.SHARE with pokérus, just so I don't have to concentrate and can keep track with PP. But after you've trained up the first stat, the trainee is often good enough to take the lead with Macho Brace.

Oh, and my favorite Attack training spot is fishing on R118. Pure Sharpedo and Carvharna, which a suitable lead (fast electric for example) can take down easily. Good XP too.

[Sceptile_Master]

I don't see the point in alot of these arguments against EVs. It probably takes less time to EV train a pokemon than it does to battle the elite four 25 times putting the pokemon in the PC after everytime then withdrawing it. Because the thing is it makes compettive battling full of strategy. Most people that are just battling against their friends don't care because both your pokemon are just gonna be random anyways if you haven't EV trained it and all that jazz. It makes it so pokemon isn't justa kids game. It gives it strategy. So is it for nerds to do some 10 year old simple math caculation? Erm... welcome to RPGs, and if you're not going to be doing high level competitive battling then why the hell do you care? It's not like the game is so uber hard that you can't do it with just going through not caring. Err I just don't see the validicity behind half of these attacks against the current system. I mean whats with the style: "I hate trying to find a pokemon with great IVs for like an hour... why do nintendo do it?" But then "Oh I don't do any compettive battling". Then why are you spending an hour of your time looking for that pokemon with the good IVs. So you can post a pwnage RMT on a forums or somehting. Just please explain all this too me.

And don't take this as a flame please (because it isn't), I just genuinly (forgotten how to spell it) don't get it.

[frylock]

What'd really be great is if Chanseys/BLisseys become extinct in the next game.

[Blademaster]

I doubt it - check out Serebii.net, the 4th Generation section.

Not only does it look like Chansey and Blissey will be returning, but there looks like there's gonna be a Baby version of Chansey, which looks like a chibi-Chansey-Igglybuff combo in a cereal bowl.

Also new to the family is a cat with a boomerand for a head - let's throw it and see what happens.

[Dark Eevolution]

Ok, I guess it's ok to have your own opinion, but once again I have to repeat this: GSC was the peak, the top, the highest point in pokémon videogames. There won't be anything better than that. 100 new pokemon were added, many of which, btw, continue to be standard (can you say blissey, skarmory, tyranitar, lanturn etc?) RS generation brought the remaining changes that should have been in GSC, about gameplay that is. Of course, the storyline wasn't the most deep one, but it had all the elements to make it good. And yeah... gosh, I recently played Stadium 2 with my brother, and it feels so much better than colosseum... I mean, you can battle a lot, but when you're tired, or simply you aren't in the mood fo battling, just go and play minigames... that was so much fun!... the one thing I agree with you is that Munchlax doesn't give many hopes... :(

I'd like to see the same play system (up to emerald, of course). Orre should be forgotten forever... it's not even a Japanese region as Kanto/Johto/Hoenn are! or either they should give us the three regions and a new one (that would be sooo long, but still good) or a new one, but much, much larger...

450 or so pokemon seem about right... I think they should stop at 500 hundred... anymore than that would be a pain.

The one thing I would really ask Nintendo: Don't forget the players that have been around RBY days... it's been awful with RS generation. Many of us are being left out. They're just focusing on bringing new kids; ok, it's always good to do that. But that's not the only market. And pls, stop making us spend so much money, 5 GBA versions, and one *coughcrappycough* GC game are a lot of money.

I understand Rinku's point, but you're only watching one side of the equation: you have, ahem, kids to play with. The only person I know that plays pokemon is my brother, and he's not as interested in the game as me. So it's rather difficult to find someone who plays pokemon around here, let alone to become friends with them... also, I don't have that much free time either :S I rather go to sleep, or study what I'm supposed to, instead of going to some place to trade pokemon, it's just a waste of time. You should be wondering then: why am I replying this post then? because, sadly, this is my only interaction with other players, besides my brother and online battling.


I agree with you. GSC introduced many great pokemon, especially my favorites Umbreon and Espeon.

To call GSC crappy would make little sense.

And yes, I also agree that they need to remember the old school players. There are a good couple of
pokemon that I think should not really be introduced. It's as if they're just added to appease younger
children.

As for Hoenn being forgotten, I would like to adventure across a new world. But a bigger world, kinda
like Johto and Kanto (RBY/FR/LG Kanto), all in one. Or some other place too. I know that's kinda asking
alot, but the truth of the matter is that PKMN games seem to be getting faster and faster to beat.

And I am honestly sick of promotions. The Jirachi one excluded because that was really equal opportunity.

But all these "Go to Pokemon Center in NYC" needs to stop.

Especially these darn ticket stuff. It was bad enough when I had to leave my Lugia and Ho-Oh behind
on Silver, but to not really have a chance to catch new ones except through some ticket I'd probably never
get except off Ebay is asking too much.

Also! There needs to seriously be some online play going on here. Program some HUGE MMORPG where
you can hook up your games to and your pokemon will be saved on it like how you register them on Colosseum,
or have them hooked up like on the Stadiums, where you didn't have to register, you were actually
using THEM not some (practically) clones.

IMO, that should have been done LONG AGO. They have had more than enough time.

I've seen pokemon fans come and go and I've still loved the series, it's time to reward the loyal trainers.

[mr_pikachu]

As for Hoenn being forgotten, I would like to adventure across a new world. But a bigger world, kinda
like Johto and Kanto (RBY/FR/LG Kanto), all in one. Or some other place too. I know that's kinda asking
alot, but the truth of the matter is that PKMN games seem to be getting faster and faster to beat.

Yeah, that was why I was disappointed with RSE. GSC was brilliant, as it combined the old land and a new one for much vaster exploration and gameplay. RSE took place in a single region, which did seem a little constrained.


And I am honestly sick of promotions. The Jirachi one excluded because that was really equal opportunity.

But all these "Go to Pokemon Center in NYC" needs to stop.

Especially these darn ticket stuff. It was bad enough when I had to leave my Lugia and Ho-Oh behind
on Silver, but to not really have a chance to catch new ones except through some ticket I'd probably never
get except off Ebay is asking too much.

I hate promotions too, but remember that at least there are other ways to legally get Ho-oh and Lugia... even if they involve buying more stuff. Colosseum and XD make Ho-oh and Lugia accessible, and soon they'll be tradeable through Wi-fi. That aspect should really help. The idiocy with the tickets, though, has got to stop. I haven't had a Pokemon tour in my state for years, so what am I supposed to do? Drive for 300 miles during school to get a chunk of data? Ehh.


Also! There needs to seriously be some online play going on here. Program some HUGE MMORPG where
you can hook up your games to and your pokemon will be saved on it like how you register them on Colosseum,
or have them hooked up like on the Stadiums, where you didn't have to register, you were actually
using THEM not some (practically) clones.

IMO, that should have been done LONG AGO. They have had more than enough time.

I've seen pokemon fans come and go and I've still loved the series, it's time to reward the loyal trainers.

I couldn't agree with you more. An MMORPG would be a huge hit, and it would finally offer a way to train and battle 24/7. Hell, that would be the only MMORPG I would even consider paying a periodic fee to play, and I could pretty much guarantee that I would do it. Desperate fans have created their own, fairly poor (and technically illegal) Pokemon MMORPGs. It's about time that Nintendo saw the light.

Plus, it would be the perfect opportunity to add new gameplay aspects to Pokemon battling. For years, I've wanted to have a game where you didn't just choose your Pokemon's moves and wait for the effect, but you actually had real-time commands, reactions, etc. And none of the sit-back-and-wait-for-your-turn ATB junk, either. Active moving is essential. I would imagine a good realization of this would have battle mechanics similar to those of some of the new Legend of Zelda games. Three dimensions of movement, active choices about attacking, defending, healing, or evading... this would provide infinite possibilities and would ensure that no battle would be the same. (Plus, it would require trainers to become skillful themselves - someone who doesn't have a feel for the active mechanics could lose to a trainer with a vastly inferior Pokemon, where they would normally win just by choosing moves to blast away.)

Yeah. I really like this idea.

[SoulflameNinetales]

Unfortuneally, the idea that Nintendo would create an MMORPG based on Pokemon is most likely not going to happen. But i can always hope...

Thro this sounds like a absolute idiotic thing to do, maybe we can make and send a petition(did I spell it right) or something? At least let Nintendo know what the fans want?

[mr_pikachu]

Hey, it's worked (to a limited extent) before. I signed one demanding more Pokemon music CDs be produced to match the songs that were being created. They didn't do that, but they released some of the newer songs on iTunes. I'd definitely participate in an MMORPG petition.