Can anyone rate my Water Team?

[WaterTrainer]

Here's my team:

Dewgong
Ability: Thick Fat
Surf
Sheer Cold
Ice Beam
Signal Beam

Kingdra
Ability: Swift Swim
Surf
Dragon Dance
Body Slam
Ice Beam

Ludicolo
Ability: Rain Dish
Leech Seed
Thief
Rain Dance
Surf

Whiscash
Ability: Oblivious
Earthquake
Tickle
Surf
Amnesia

Mantine
Ability:Water Absorb
Surf
Water Pulse
Wing Attack
Confuse Ray

Milotic
Ability: Marvel Scale
Surf
Ice Beam
Recover
Water Pulse

Please rate my team. Thanks! ;)

[Crazy]

I may rate this team,but before I do.... PLEASE get rid of Sheer Cold. The move is way to inaccurate.

[WaterTrainer]

Okay then, but I can't bear to part with it... Its the only 1 hit K.O move which can affect any type of Pokemon. Maybe I can replace it with Safeguard or Rest?

[Poryhedron]

Unsurprisingly, you have 3x weaknesses to Electric and Grass. Given that this is an all-Water team, however, I commend you for keeping those weaknesses down to only 3x! Plus, one of the team members in each weakness is Milotic, who has a nicely huge Special Defense. You might be all right on the weakness front.

[WaterTrainer]

Sometimes its good to think about the weaknesses and stats before includng certain Pokemon. Should I include a Sharpedo and a Lanturn as backup in case any of then fails?

[P0RYG0N]

What's with these Water teams latley?

Dewgong
Ability: Thick Fat
Surf-Okay
Sheer Cold-Useable...risky, but useable.
Ice Beam-Yep.
Signal Beam-ehhhh....
It works, I suppose, but you can always try Disable, Encore or Rest in place of Signal Beam.
Disable is only 55% accuracy, though..

Your suggesting of Dragon Dance gives me two ideas:
Special Kingdra
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance
- Toxic/Rest/Double Team

OR

Attacking Kingdra
- Return
- Dragon Dance
- Double Team/Rest/Toxic
Both work, but attacking Kingdra is going to be somewhat unique from the rest of the team, as the rest of your Pogeys are pretty much all Special-based.

Ludicolo dosen't really need Theif, it's somewhat a waste of a moveslot, in my opinion. I see what you're going for, but it only does 40 base damage and you're only going to be using it once per Poke. The opponent's probable Leftovers can definatley be countered with Toxic. And there is always the chance that the opponent will have some other item on that Ludicolo dosen't really need. Toxic, Ice Beam or Giga Drain would work nice in place of Theif. In the past I would have just reccomended Toxic, but I've been facing a lot of Aromatherapy/Heal Bell Blisseys latley in Netbattle. :D

You don't need Tickle on Whiscash, that's just going to cause the opponent to switch if it even becomes a problem for them. Replace with Rest maybe? Toxic is always an option, but it's always an option on everything.

Mantine:
Dosen't need Water Pulse with Surf AND Confuse Ray XD.
Don't use Wing Attack, it's weak and Mantine has a lower attack than a Bulbasaur -_-....
Try Ice Beam there, and Rest/Toxic/Haze.

Rating an all-Water team always begins to sound like a broken record.

Milotic:
Water Pulse again? Nono.
Hypnosis/Refresh/Confuse Ray/Toxic/Mirror Coat Instead.
I'd say Hypnosis, so you could have one sleep conditioner on your team... but 60% accuracy is iffy.
Refresh heals Paralyze/Burn/Poison, that's always cool.
But Mirror Coat can always be very eeevil. :D

Laturn is always cool, and Sharpedo may work as a lead Poke, with it's high attack and speed, but 'pedo has really poor defenses...

[WaterTrainer]

Mirror Coat with Milotic sounds stupid, like how much damage can Milotic do with Mirror coat with its awesome Sp. Def? And, I don't wanna evolve another Feebas all over again :(

Would Brick Break for Thief sound good for Ludicolo? How about Ice Beam for Tickle in Whiscash's case? Maybe I should consider replacing Mantine... Arrrrgh so many decisions!!!

[WaterTrainer]

Maybe ur right, I should replace Water Pulse... How about Safeguard or Attract?

[P0RYG0N]

Safeguard and Attract are cool, hard to pick one over the other, so I'll leave that to you. :D

Brick Break Ludicolo dosen't sound horrible, but a mixed Ludicolo might not be the best Idea...

And Ice Beam never hurts on most water types, but you may want to try to go for more variety on this team. *Shrug*

[WaterTrainer]

Thanks, I'll start on modifying my team now.

[WaterTrainer]

I need more ppl to help me rate this team. Does a Whiscash with Spark sound ridiculous?

[Aarkan]

Swampert > Whiscash
Gyarados > Mantine

Swampert@Chesto
Adamant
Attack/HP
Earthquake
Brick Break
Return
Rest

Gyarados@Leftovers
Adamant
Attack/HP
Dragon Dance
Taunt
Earthquake
Return


I know they both look a bit similar but with them they're all the physical you need on your team, go with leftovers toxic/raindance/leechseed/surf or attract on Ludicolo and stick with Kingdra as a special sweeper. Yes Mirror Coat on Milotic works great because it can SURVIVE everything. Like stabbed thunders and stabbed critical leaf blades. Then coat them back to KO the opponent and recover next turn.

Oh right, Kingdra set.
Kingdra@Lum or Leftovers or Scope Lens
Modest
SpAtk/HP
Surf
Ice Beam
Dragonbreath
Rain Dance

Rain dance is for speed and you should know what to do with everything else.

And I won't even touch Dewgong... I figure Lapras would be better with confuse ray and thunderbolt etc...

[Rabid_Cow]

1 good Lapras > Your team. Yes, it is a water team, I realize that. BUT you need to get something to deal with it. Common ones I see have:

Lapras (Water Absorb)
Surf<>Ice Beam<>Thunderbolt<>Roar

This guy would shut you down. This or Milotic with that insane special defense. That's why I agree with the Gyrados and Swampert.

If you're gonna play this make sure you take Signal Beam off of Dewgong. Make him a special sweeper and put Encore on there for DD, Swords Dance, Agility and Subs etc.

On Swampert I'd go w/
Curse<>Return<>Earthquake<>Brick Break<>

Gyrados:
DD<>Earthquake<>Return (This is for cartridge. Good IV's plus HP flying almost impossible.)<>Taunt

I'd make Ludi more of a tank/sapper w/this:
(Rain Dish) Leech Seed<>Rain Dance<>Toxic<>Dive

Yeah Dive can allow them to switch, but it works for me. + Lots more HP back w/LS and RD.

I'll be back for the rest of the rate later. I GTG.

[Whisper in the Wind]

Dewgong@Leftovers/Chesto Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
Surf/Body Slam
Encore
Disable/Toxic
Attract/Rest

Personally, I'd say a Physical Wall/Spiker Cloyster in Dewgongs place, but this would be my best bet for a Dewgong.

Kingdra@Chesto Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
Surf
Rain Dance
Rest
Ice Beam

Rain Dance + Swift Swim, Dragon Dance sucks unless you have a good HP. Since you probs don't wanna rebreed for D-Breath, Chesto Rest for final move

Ludicolo@Leftovers
Ability: Rain Dish
Leech Seed
Toxic
Rain Dance/Giga Drain
Surf

Pretty standard. If Kingdra has RD you may not need it on Ludi so consider Giga Drain possibly

Whiscash@Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
Earthquake
Rest
Surf/Rock Slide
Amnesia/Toxic

You could go for the trapper, but that would require breeding Whirlpool across. If you can, use Whirlpool, Toxic, Attract & EQ/Surf, if not, go with the above tank style set

Mantine@Chesto Berry
Ability:Water Absorb/Swift Swim
Rest
Haze/Toxic
Surf
Confuse Ray

You need a Hazer on your team, trouble is, you need to re-breed for a good 1. IMO, re-breed and make Mantine a hazer. Also, rain Dance may be in place so Swift Swim could be worth going for.

Milotic@Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
Surf/Water Pulse
Confuse Ray/Attract
Wrap
Toxic

or

Milotic@Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
Surf
Mirror Coat
Wrap
Recover

Sorry, you need to rebreed. Even with insane Special Defense, Mirror Coat will do plenty, especially if you are taking super effectives which you most likely will. There are two sets you could go for.

The 1st is the Toxi-trapper. Lead with Wrap, then Toxic, then use Attract (or C Ray if you went with it) then Water Pulse continuely (usually scoring a confusion) or Surf them continuely.

The 2nd is the Mirror Coater. Trap a special sweeper with Wrap, then send their special attacks back at them. Recover any lost health, simple

Sorry, but a good Milotic requires breeding :)

1 thing your team lacks is a Physical sweeper. Gyrados or Sharpedo seem like good choices. You also lack a Physical wall, so I'd also consider Cloyster for Dewgong, or a Cursing Quagsire in Whiscashes place. Also, Lanturn really should be considered since you can just switch in and take that electric shock and repair a lowered HP.

[WaterTrainer]

I can't get another Milotic anymore....

Okay, I'm gonna get a Mantine with Haze, so this means I have to train an Ekans...

I can't trade with Ru/Sa anymore, by the way...

More breeding required... Anyone living in Singapore? I wanna test my Pokemon when they reach Lv 100

[Rudoku]

I can't get another Milotic anymore....

Did you tie it's tubes or make it a nun? As long as you have a Milotic and FR/LG(for Ditto), you can always breed. Unless you're training them on Colosseum...


Okay, I'm gonna get a Mantine with Haze, so this means I have to train an Ekans...

Nah, that won't work. You'll have to train either a Surskit (level 36) or Wooper (some high level)... Good luck.

[Aarkan]

Um..

Did you eat your Ru/Sa game or something?
And I really think you should go for gyarados or someone with a little water resistance will be able to wipe the floor with you still. A Lapras and a Ludicolo would wreak havoc.

[WaterTrainer]

I didn't eat it, I just ran out of berries. And I can't evolve a Feebas, because its my friend who helped me with the Feebas evolution. And Rudoku doesn't know that Ekans + Dratini --> Dratini + Haze, then Dratini + Haze + Mantine --> Mantine with Haze. I know its longer, but I don't feel like trading at the moment

[Aarkan]

...
I still don't understand why you're taking mantine over gyarados when you allready have 3 other competent special sweepers and an annoyer...

And Swampert is superior to Whiscash...
/shrug

[WaterTrainer]

U don't know how to use a Whiscash, do u? I think I'll teach Whiscash Spark. A Whiscash can still take out a Swampert with its over-bloated Sp. Def., u know...

[WaterTrainer]

Milotic with Toxic? Well... I guess I could teach it, then get a Feebas with Toxic and breed it on... And I'm totally against using Gyarados, so don't ask me. I can still change Mantine for Lanturn, if any of u think its a bad idea to stick with Mantine

[Rabid_Cow]

Looking at Aarkan's previous posts and poke use habits I think he is very capable of using a pokemon "correctly". Don't go gettin defensive on us, we're tryin to help. If you want to start goin nuts on us, at least post some EV's for these guys first.

Mantine is a fine hazer.

Whiscash has his role on teams, and so does Swampert. Whiscash is "anti-Gyrados sneak attack sparker guy" and Swampert is "cool physi-sweeper curser dude".

To put it into lamen's terms. They're both good. They have different roles. Just like the ghosts in Ru/Sa, you really couldn't compare the 2. (On a side note, I would put my money on Swampert if the 2 were pit against eachother seeing as Spark has no effect on Swampy + Swampy gets Mirror Coat.)

Anyways, could you post a revised team? I'm not quite sure what to finish rating. This whole thing has turned into a debate over which pokes are better. It really doesn't matter that much...

[WaterTrainer]

Could I ask all of u a question?

My previous Kingdra was lv 70 and could have HP Dragon, but its defenses suck, because they were about 140 for both while its attack stats were about 170. My new Kingdra which my friend traded to me has 70-ish stats and is only at lv 30, but with HP Fire. Which Kingdra would u all say is better?

[Rudoku]

Could I ask all of u a question?

My previous Kingdra was lv 70 and could have HP Dragon, but its defenses suck, because they were about 140 for both while its attack stats were about 170. My new Kingdra which my friend traded to me has 70-ish stats and is only at lv 30, but with HP Fire. Which Kingdra would u all say is better?
The level 30 one. Only because it hasn't had it's EVs completely ruined yet.

[WaterTrainer]

Okay, thanks.

After long consideration, I've decided to get a Gyarados and kick out Mantine. So far it has Thrash, Bite, Surf and Earthquake, because I only just started training it. It is able to learn HP bug, but I don't know whether it's good for Gyarados. My targeted Moveset for it is Earthquake, Dragon Dance, Surf and Thrash. Should Gyarados become a Physical Sweeper?

[Rudoku]

Thrash is as crappy and as much of a waste of time as it's friend Outrage. If you have to have a normal move, use Return. And Surf just sucks for it, period.

[Aarkan]

Gyarados MUST have Taunt...
You don't understand the necessity of that move combined with Dragon Dance...

You'll slaughter with earthquake and return.

[WaterTrainer]

How about Ghost types?

[Aarkan]

...
You switch, duh. And a bunch of ghosts don't have levitate.

[WaterTrainer]

It's only the Ru/Sa ghosts which don't have Levitate

[Rabid_Cow]

Dusclops, Banette, and Gengar are the only ones that you have to worry about, and of the three I see Clops and Gengar the most. W/Clops you could probably destroy it with E-Quake and with Gengar it would surely T-Bolt you.

So....Stay and destroy Clops or Banette and cut your loses with Gengar and hopefully you will be able to use Gyrados again for some more sweepin later.

POST AN UPDATED TEAM!!! I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO RATE!!!

[Aarkan]

Yeah. post an updated team.

Also you can't nitpick the one little guy that WILL annihilate your monster. If that is your only guy left at that point you're gonna lose. If it isn't then you need to switch, that's just how the game works.

[WaterTrainer]

Okay, How about this?

Lapras
Water Absorb
Surf
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam
Rain Dance

Whiscash ( I dunno about it, it seems that its better in Sp. Atk )
Oblivious
Ice Beam
Earthquake
Spark
Amnesia

Gyarados
Intimidate
Dragon Dance
Return
Earthquake
HP Bug

Milotic
Marvel Scale
Surf
Recover
Ice Beam
Toxic

Ludicolo
Rain Dish
Surf
Giga Drain
Leech Seed
Rain Dance

Kingdra
Swift Swim
Surf
Ice Beam
Rest
HP Fire

Just another proposal to a Water Team. So, what do u think about it?

[Aarkan]

USE

TAUNT

ON

GYARADOS

[WaterTrainer]

O okay then, I'll teach it Taunt, it's not like other Pokemon need it anyway...