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Plantae
6th November 2005, 02:28 PM
My comments still stand, except for the deletion which is sort of an unnecessary endeavor; I have come to see this in retrospect. It would be nice, but is a moot effort.

I do, however, wish to give mention of again of the ideas Heald brought up.

1) ASB/RPG is merely taking up space. Heald mentioned turning it into an archive, which would be good. I, however, would also like the addition of a subforum. Fanficton has the Writer's Lounge, so why can't we have a "Roleplayer's Lounge?" It would give room for discussion on the concept of roleplaying.

Roleplayers here well know that posting anything besides a sign-up topic or start topic is just begging to get locked, and I think a subforum like a "Roleplayer's Lounge" would provide a useful area in which we could post ideas for the forum or other topics that could be of some use. Some roleplayers might find fun in discussing characters and how they play them, there favorite types of characters, or suggesting an amendment to a rule that does no good for the forum. If it was desired, it would make sense to move all Roleplaying sign-ups to this forum also. Veteran RPer's could even post there thoughts in articles about different aspects of roleplaying, giving tips to newbies and the experienced alike. This forum would also be the residence of all award and similar topics.

EDIT: We could bring back the news topics. I read them, and they had me entertained. I'd like to see something similar again.

The Archive, which could be made from the "ASB/RPG" section would be an incentive for people to finish a roleplay. There ideas on proud display for years to come.

2) A Feedback topic for roleplayers would be something very handy. Having hosted many roleplays in my time, I know how it is hard to decide whether or not to accept someone into your roleplay. It takes research, and comments from people who have witnessed them first hand to understand the reliability and likeliness that they will contribute to a successful roleplaying experience. A feedback table can point out the bad eggs in the bunch. If nothing else, it would serve as a reminder to hosts that the people they have accepted and more or less chosen will see their topic to the end of their preference.

I will not otherwise review this idea, as Heald will probably have more of the infrastructure and system to mention himself.

3) He mentioned that inactive roleplays should be pruned. I, for one, do not understand why this is not being done already. People leave things to die, and then it just sits their rotting away. Moderation should assure that there will not be any eyesores on this board.

4) I have a fourth idea, which could better assure that only the good roleplays survive. There should be a topic, in this what if "Roleplaying Lounge" in which all roleplays must first be approved. It would not have to be a moderator's duty in entirety. It would be the new RPG Idea Topic in that all plot ideas would be submitted as replies there in similar format. Then, it would require the approval of a moderator first (or a delegate of that moderator, if they wished to spread the workload to experienced or reliable roleplayers). Community members could browse the topic, and it would then be required that any and all roleplays must be approved by a moderator and by one comment from another roleplayer. That way, it would profess both community interest and the stamp of recognition that it was a viable idea.

The requirements for a viable roleplay would not be unnecessarily strict, but would be expected to follow a general set of criteria of what a roleplay should have.

This would keep any half-done efforts out of production.

=

With that, I ask of all you to please comment. And please, do not get lost in politics or disagreements.

Bulbasaur4
6th November 2005, 02:47 PM
I agree... I think that the Role Playing Game Forum should spread out a bit, and a Lounge idea is some thing I would highly push for. That way, we could put a lot of stickied topics (such as the AWAY topic and the Idea topic) into the lounge, and make this forum the primary forum for actual role play.

I started the RPG News, and I firmly believe that bringing it back would be fun to try again. I'd start it again if anyone would allow me, and we could place that in the Lounge as well. It would also help discussion and more communication amongst the Role Players, so that way we wouldn't have to go through PMs all the time or discussion in the RPGs themselves.

As for the 'approval' of an idea, I'm not totally opposed to that. I agree that designating 'approval' people, other than the moderators, would be a good idea. However, I believe if a moderator has approved of an RPG then I doubt anyone else should need to approve it. That would be slightly tedious... and suggestions or ideas could be taken care of in the Idea topic.

I'm not opposed to any of those ideas. There could be some cons about having an 'approval' topic, but I'm not fully aware about what those might be. Right now, the RPG forum itself is a little slow so I wouldn't want to do anything that would slow it down further. But great ideas and I'm glad you've put those ideas to light again.


EDIT: I agree with putting away the ASB/RPG forum. It's not moving fast enough to keep it... and archiving it would be a better option. It was a good thought, but it's just not doing anything sitting there. As for the old topics in the RPG forum... I'm not sure if we could get an archive forum, that's some thing to ask the admins for... but I think it would be a good idea. I wouldn't want to delete good RPGs, because they're good to occasionally go back and read (yes, I like to do that... :p ) or to get ideas or draw from.
:)

Plantae
6th November 2005, 03:11 PM
I am glad someone likes the idea for a Roleplaying Lounge, thank you Bulbasaur4.

As for the tedium involved in having both a moderator and member approve a roleplay, my mind was just working oddly. I had separated the two titles as separate entities, but if a moderator likes something, then the community will probably like it too. Comments from other members, then, would be optional and not mandatory.

I think the only major con of an approval topic would be the appearance of slowdown. In reality it does not put much more effort into a host. It simply requires the plot, which they have anyway, to be posted somewhere. This in itself is not the real chore, but the wait that could possibly occur from doing so may be irritating. However, I believe that if the duty was delegated to certain members (possibly on a criteria posted inside the topic), then there would be no problems. There would be plenty of moderators and delegates to browse the topic, and thus there would be more than enough that there would be no clogging from three moderators trying to read and approve every roleplay that comes along. I know you guys do not want to do that.

It would not be more of a labor for the delegates, either, since I know that I browse peoples' sign-ups that I never intend to sign up for and the RPG Idea Topic every time something new comes up there.

Yes, I suppose an archive is the second priority. As for the process of pruning, it would probably have a clause as to which roleplays go to the archive and which ones get deleted. So, this process is then, in retrospect, sort of useless unless we have an archive. Petition the administrators!

Heald
7th November 2005, 05:47 PM
Since Plantae and some other people showed some support for my reforms, I'll copy and paste 'em here.

---

1) Turn the ASB/RPG sub-forum into an archive. I've been following the ASB/RPG project since its conception and although ambitious and a reasonable amount of support, as JT mentioned a few months back, lack of interest has spurred concerns and doubts over it. To be honest, considering the state this forum is in, I doubt there would be enough interest from either people to run it and people to participate in it to make it a worthwhile endeavour. That is why it should be scrapped in favour of something more useful...

...such as an archive. Such as in the Fanfiction forum, all authors strive to have their works submitted into the annals of history and archived for all to read. This works on a similar basis: this will encourage people to finish their RPGs so that when they are finished, they can be archived and you can recall all the memories you had of the RPG. Back in the old days, nothing felt as good as finishing an RPG and when I go back and look at them now, I enjoy reading them even more.

Therefore, if people now have an incentive to finish their RPGs, they will encourage their members to post and participate.

2) A feedback topic/RPer league table. This is to provide Gamemasters and mods a personal insight of all the members of the RPG forum. Just like the feedback system, Gamemasters and fellow RPers can post feedback on other RPers or Gamemasters, either postive, neutral or negative. This will need to be strictly monitored in case controversial comments or blatant-flaming takes place. Postive feedback will include good RPing style, activity and daily posting. Neutral will mainly be for newbies, saying that they are alright but their RPing style has room for improvement, or perhaps mixed comments i.e. a good RPer but can be inactive. Negative feedback will be for constant inactivity or RPing in a bad way (this doesn't entail bad spelling or grammar, which would fall under Neutral, but generally posting out-of-context RPs or power-RPing or ruining the plot).

Every week, a mod (if we had three mods, they could rotate this and so only have to do it once every three weeks each) will then process the feedback and give the RPer points. I'm thinking +3 for positive feedback, +1 for Neutral and -2 for Negative. There would also be a league table, with the top RPers obviously getting an ego boost.

We could run two league tables - a RPer league and a Gamemaster league.

This would help provide incentive for people to be more active, as people would want to accumulate points for good work and would discourage inactivity as they would gain a bad reputation. RPers with a high score may also be given liberty to have more freedom in their character creation as they are more trustworthy. Gamemasters with a high score will also probably have more sign-ups as a result.

Thinking out loud here, but if the mods can't be bothered to run the league table, I'm more than capable of doing it myself.

3) Inactive RPG pruning. If an RPG has not had an RP (not an OOC post such as 'I'll post in a few days or so') for a week, a Mod issues a warning. The game must then have had at least 2 RPs within a week, otherwise the Mod PMs the Gamemaster that the RPG will be deleted unless he can give a good enough reason not to. This will encourage both people to post and the Gamemaster to PM the RPG members and get them to post.

I know this seems ambitious and will provide more work for the mods but unless the mods intervene, there will be no way for this forum to ever recover from this recession.

I eagerly await your criticisms.

---

Also, I would just like to say I too am in favour for the Roleplayer's Lounge.

Plantae - in your posts, I'm not really sure what you mean by 'roleplays'. To me, a roleplay is just a single IC post, whereas a Roleplaying Game (RPG) is the actual entire topic.

Bulbasaur4
7th November 2005, 06:08 PM
Yeah... the rating thing would be a good idea. We could encourage people to put in their sigs even, if they wanted to. That way it would make for double access - simply looking at their sig to see their points, and then in the topic with their given stats. I won't go into detail how we could organize it (I keep thinking I'm a mod. ^^;;;; ) but it wouldn't be too hard. The hardest part would be to get comments from people... and comments well-ranged so that they'd affect all the RPGers. I could see some one making comments abou tone person... and not another... and providing unequal feed back.

But I think it would be a good idea. Especially if the moderators and those who help, know everyone and are well immersed in different RPGs.

VirtualPlay
7th November 2005, 10:53 PM
On Heald's ideas:

1) A very excellent idea, because for one thing, if we don't do something else with that form it'll just sit there forever. And for another, some RPGs are just so good that once they're completed, people won't want to lose them behind all those still-living RPGs that'll take up the front pages. It's not completely original, but it's definitely a good use of the space.

2) I like this idea, and the only apprehension I have with it Kalah already said, and that's the fact that a lot of people will comment only on people they want to comment on, whether good or bad. Maybe what we could do with it is, if it has it's own topic, post a list of all active RPers and then the number of reviews received, with a set goal number of reviews needed for each person. Not everybody has to comment about every person, but if a person does comment about everyone that would be good. But this way the still-needed reviews would be shown, and people might actually think about that RPer when they normally wouldn't have. But that's just my take on it.

3) The pruning is a good idea, though the moderator (or whoever checks in on the RPG) would have to make sure that the GM hasn't said he/she would be away before just PMing him/her and waiting a week...in that case it would probably be better to make a post in the topic itself, and maybe delete said post after the two required IC-posts are met. In fact, that might work even if the GM isn't away or anything.

----
As for the "RolePlayers' Lounge," it does sound like a good idea. It's kind of like the ASB Tower subforum: all the big things that everyone should know about and read regularly, but they aren't cluttering up the top of the forum itself.

Referencing the "RPG Approval" idea...it's a bad one, in my opinion. The main argument I have to support that is simple: "Natural Selection" will keep truly bad RPGs from getting off the ground. By "Natural Selection" I mean that people will look at the RPG and see that it's bad and not want to join, thus failing to give the RPG life in the first place. Rather, for people who need help to see if their RPG is good enough, they should be directed to the "RPG Idea" topic, where people are (hopefully) willing to help.

Drusilla
8th November 2005, 12:34 PM
I really like the idea of a rating table, though personally I think that it needs more depth to it than just "Yea" "Nay" and "Meh"... *eyes glint mischievously* Ooooh, I'm getting some ideas here... If I get a chance to tonight, I'll jot down some notes on ways to expand a system like that, though NCIS is on tonight... Well, I'll see what I can come up with. I think that I could adapt the system that we use at work for rating checkers...

TIME FOR SPREADSHEETS!!! *huggles Excel*

I also like Mike's idea about a topic to keep track of how many reviews any one person receives... It would let people know who needs how many reviews, and who is making the biggest impact on others as well. People are more likely to comment on someone who has a strong effect on them, negative or positive, than someone who's just kind of... there...

Pruning... To a certain extent, I support it, but keep in mind that it might cut close to the RPM's confidence in their abilities. We don't want to be too harsh, but it is a good idea. Let's just be careful about how far we go.

An RPers Lounge sounds like fun; count my vote in for that, too.

Plantae
24th May 2006, 07:04 PM
We are all very well aware of the decaying state of our forum for which I will not detail it here. I am growing rather nauseated with the simplicity of all it and the rejection of some of these reforms. I know a few points made are already Heald's or someone else's, but then they simply bear repeating.

Character Limit
1. I believe the cause of inactivity, besides being attributable to life events, is also highly and suspiciously involved with members spreading themselves to thin. I see all around me people with five characters, four, six, most not being paid attention. Due to this, I propose a mandatory character limit. It would not be completely strict but would have basis in the ranking system; those with better ratings would be given more priveleges. This would apply in reverse of course. Those with negative scores would be allowed less characters. My number as of now is two, though this is not likely to go over well with most of you.

Some of you are wont to say that there are problems involved. The first and most obvious is how suddenly someone's rank could change and cause them to reach a position in which the number of characters they currently have is more than they should. I only see necessity for action in this case if the problem should grow large. Otherwise, having one character over quota will not harm anyone. The person in question in this situation would be allowed to keep their character but should that character fall out of use for any reason, then that player would not be able to create another to take its place.

If the player were to fall several points, however, and suddenly were only allowed two characters where they could have previously had five- and have used all of those five slots- the priveleges will remain in a similar fashion. In this case the suspension will not only be on creating future characters to take those characters' place, but also on reaching that rank again. Members that prove consistently up-and-down in the ranking system for similar reasons will find themselves in between a rock in a hard place. That is, rising the ranks again will be made more difficult for them.

An RPG Limit for each member might seem more favorable here. The problem is that allows characters amuck in one RPG and the same problem to occur again. To cover the fact that a member may be hosting an RPG and subsequently be more distracted, hosting an RPG would create an arbitrary ghost character. Thus a player with two characters, one in an RPG he is hosting, would have three characters for purpose of the limit.

RPG Limit
2. I have seen my fair share of bad or simply uninteresting RPG's of late. I would like to propose a forum-wide RPG Limit. In this case there would only be a certain number of active RPG's allowed in the forum at any given time.

The main problem I see, and thus the point some of you will likely make in defense, is that of the influx of new RPGers or simply of people wanting to create an RPG of their own. Firstly, new RPGers would probably be suspended the right to create RPG's immediately in this system. This will be further explained later.

In any case, to assure that most members are satisfied by the active RPG's, the limit and the approval topic detailed in the next idea would not be entirely first come, first serve. When there were several RPG's available, the forum-goers can support their favorite. The one with the most interest backing it will receive the position.

Approval Topic
3. I propose an Approval Topic. I believe I ran this idea through once before. The main argument was that it would slow down an already slow process. But really, having many bad RPG's (or uninteresting ones) is not worth a quicker pace. All RPG plotlines would be approved by moderators and at least entertained for interest by one or more members. Once they pass this, they can be created if there is room in the RPG Limit. If there is not, there will be a waiting list. The Approval Topic effectively also serves as the Idea Topic, then.

However, position in the waiting list is not allowed if the idea approved is by a player already hosting an RPG. Secondly, should a spot come open and the host not reply or not want to create their RPG, the idea will fall in the list to second position and the second position idea and host will be entertained as a possibility (and etcetera).

The waiting list is not entirely as it is, however. RPG Ideas that have more interest are subsequently more favorable are higher on the list. That is, the list is not measured on a first come, first serve basis but rather on forum interest as detailed prior.

Pruning
4. Pruning - Most would consider it an unnecessary task as far as old RPG's go, but now that we have an archive, there is no reason to have unneeded threads floating around. But I will focus more on pruning related to other things than on that of old RPG's.

On the point of sign-up threads: if an inadequate number of sign-ups are received for a thread for [period of weeks to be determined], that thread will promptly be deleted and the next RPG Idea will take its place.

Secondly, in the case of existent RPG's. All have a lifespan and if an RPG is not posted on for [period of weeks to be determined] then there will be a one week time to allow for archiving before the RPG in question is deleted.

The host will be made aware of pending thread deletion via private message in both cases and may request archiving in the second. Only threads with a certain number of posts would be eligible for archiving. The RPG's status will also be posted in a thread (which is not determined, possibly the Ranking System thread) and members in it may request archiving also under the same conditions.

Ranking System Related
5. We have received only parts of the Ranking System thus far and though word is not known, and I have yet to speak to her, the rumor from the higher-ups is that the project has been given up on. In which case, I hope that we as members will take up the mantle, as it would prove a viable judge of many of the variables above.

I propose a different system than the letter grade given. I would prefer numbers, from -? to +?. Priveleges (number of characters, right to host) would be listed along the way.

Reviews would be the same, save for the fact that a member could review more than one player per week as to encourage its upkeep.

The difference I would like to see is that, rather than grade relying entirely on subjective reviews, that a system be put into place. That is, certain things would be watched for my moderators and could be reported with a simple message rather than a lengthy review. Some of these mandatory penalties could be:
- An immediate one point deduction for each RPG a member has not posted in for more than [period of weeks to be determined]; this only applies if other RPGers are active (more than one).

I have few ideas beyond that, as my idea generator is slowing through this post, but on the subject of the Away Topic. Approved absence would be possible via the Away Topic and the Away Topic only (except in dire circumstances). The rules of the thread would be more strict, however. Invalid reasons would include a lacking of creativity or simply because. A reason would be approved by a set of given criteria in the first post of the Away Topic or in inapplicable cases by a moderator. The second would be confirmed via private message or recognition in the topic by a moderator.

=

I realize that some of these would require more work by the moderators, but frankly I would hope those appointed are willing to commit the time to what could probably help the forum. I notice that this seems strict but that is probably due to the fact that you are used to leniency (or lazy in some cases).

Frankly I ask that you only consider these ideas. I will not accept "too radical" as any sort of counter-argument. If you have a valid reason for opposition, I am likely to hear it out, but I want nothing of any stubbornness.

Heald
24th May 2006, 07:10 PM
I am all for Plantae's suggestions, at least for a trial period. After all, it wouldn't hurt to try it for a month or two and see if activity increases.

Samchu
24th May 2006, 07:39 PM
To be honest I don't actually see how any of these will help the problems being faced by the rpg forum. The idea of character and rpg limits really doesn't seem like a fair suggestion. It's like saying that someone can't start a poll because there's too many. It will force anyone wanting to rp to choose from a limited number that's available and basically demolishes the idea of having an rpg forum. I also seriously doubt that anyone's going to be happy being told that they can only sign up for a certain amount of rpgs because of their ranking. That'll drive people away more than anything.

I thought this forum was supposed to allow people to express themselves freely but all these ideas seem to be doing is trying to prevent that. I understand that lately there have been a few rpgs created by newer members that haven't been up to the standards set by the rules of this forum but our mods have done their jobs and everyone's entitled to make mistakes.

The idea of pruning...sounds a bit harsh if you ask me. Some rpgs are updated slowly but it happens, I know from experience that life can interfere with members' ability to post frequently. I just finished an rpg with 3 other members and there were periods of time where we didn't have any new posts for almost 2 weeks and yet we were one of the only rpgs to actually finish it's plot in a long time. If organised properly it wouldn't be such a bad idea but it sounds a bit too much like "you've had a week so we're deleting your rpg and there's nothing you can do about it."

Persoanlly I don't think these would help the rpg forum, more hinder it by putting off the newer members.

Roy Karrde
24th May 2006, 07:42 PM
Alright well I thought I would give a shout in here. For one I have been doing some pruning of old RPGs ever so quietly these past few weeks and knocking out old OLD RPGs that had 1 or 0 posts. The problem is that alot of people would have their post count drop dramatically and really there is almost no need to completely prune the forum, unless you guys just want Kalah and I to be waisting our time, and we already have our hands full at the moment. So maybe some time in the future we can do a deeper job, but right now we are kind of busy with getting ASB RPG up off the ground and other projects.

Second being the Ranking System, for one it isn't dead, I have talked to Kalah about it in recent times and several events in her recent life including College has delayed her. Also with all the events swirling right now, from ASB RPG, to working on multiple RPGs, and other projects not yet named, we have decided to put it off until we could release a system that wont be half assed, and that will get the full attention of the forum.

As for the other rules such as Character limit and RPG limit, truely I am against it. We are just starting to see this forum get on it's feet after almost two years of inactivity, Kalah, Tony, and myself have been working tooth and nail to try and get this thing going again, and the last thing we need is rules to limit the progress we made. Maybe in the future, when things are going full steam for a time and we can relax and not worry about sinking back down into a hole, then we could see about limiting creativity. Until then I am pretty much against it.

Plantae
24th May 2006, 08:01 PM
I understand the point that imposing a limit is harsh. And pruning- well, it is not any real concern of mine. As far as saying, "you have been given a week, your RPG is terminated..." let it be clear that when I said a period of weeks (yes, with an "s") I meant more of giving it four weeks of inactivity. For the record, that is.

But you cannot honestly say that people spreading themselves to thin is not a problem. Give anyone more than a couple characters and they get overloaded. I would be satisfied if it was merely discouraged but the fact is that no one seems to get hints very well.

And you also have to understand that, strange as it sounds, in the case of an RPG Limit, does not discourage creativity. The fact is the criteria for an RPG to be approved would be creativity. In which case, creativity is encouraged, as there is no other way.

The progress we have made is over-hyped, to be frank. Disillusioned, activity is not higher except in the ASB/RPG Forum which, really, attracts attention away from traditional RPG more than encouraging it. And frankly, the frail truth is that one look at the past threads can tell you that inactivity has been a constant problem and that major inactivity has been a problem for more than two years.

I would continue this counter-argument, but the tornado siren has gone off uptown and I must retreat to the cellar. In closing, limit does not necessarily mean that creativity will be hindered.

Plantae
24th May 2006, 08:27 PM
I apologize for my suggestions that the Ranking System was dead. However, that would be more attributable to the source of the information, that is, Tsukasa. He is not to blame either. But I do deplore your suggestions that the system will be half-assed. The fact is, I think you are searching for something that is never going to be there. You want an epiphany and a sudden burst of light and for the Ranking System to fly into view. The fact is: you are likely to think of very little else to add to the ranking system besides what you already have.

The fact that you (the moderators) are so occupied is at least somewhat your own fault. Delegation is a powerful tool and though the community seems not to be too receptive to actually helping it would pay to ask a little more. And do not say that you have started, because I know the "Future Events" thread and such was mostly spurred by my persuading you that the community needed to be made to be more involved. I also remember having to nearly strangle a few of you on the point of even getting any of my ideas for the RPG Tournament thread heard.

It is not entirely the place, but if anyone would inform as to why the format is so abhorrent to look at (that is, why the ideas are causing you to not sign up for it) I would be glad to know them and will take no offense to anything. Mostly because I have heard all of it already. But you have to give me some credit for bringing the other genres of RPG to it and making it an actual challenge. Role-playing is about every facet and that was what the rules of it were about.

I am well aware I sound like a prick, to be honest, and must offer my apologies if what I am saying is seeming so stand-offish.

I believe that the things I have proposed are, as Heald said, best seen as a trial run. It is likely that I cannot prove to you anything about what I proposed, those who argued in favor of the current system, until you see it in action.

But, for fruitless endeavors: my main issue is that we (as I have done it too) spreading ourselves too thinly over many characters and many RPG's and that it is causing both a creative blockage for so many posts and inactivity in consequence for it. And I think that, ignoring everything else I have said, a character limit would alleviate some activity. New members would neither be hindered much as long as the policy was there from the start. No, the opposition to anything will not be because of new members; it will be from those already here, and believe me, constructive criticism is what I am in want of.

In conclusion, the main idea really is that any attempts at trial and error are rejected. And as a philosophy, trial and error works. It is how everything in Science was discovered! So why can it not apply here, when it applies so many other places? We are doing too much thinking and not enough acting.

Roy Karrde
24th May 2006, 08:43 PM
Well for one Plantae I would ask for you not to double post, we have a edit option for a reason. Second I would not say that the activity is disillusioned, especially not when just a few months ago, you would get a post a two a day and that was it. You would also have RPGs on here that were on the first page and hadn't had posts in them for months. That has been changed and we are now on the upswing of things thankfully. Anyway I would ask for you to move any further discussion of this to the RPG Talkback please.

Plantae
24th May 2006, 08:57 PM
I apologize for the double post. As for posting this in RPG Talkback, I was under the inclination that this was for amendments to the rules and that the Talkback was for (as it clearly says) suggestions for events. But it will be thus relegated there anyway.

I must admit saying "activity is no higher" is a slight exaggeration as is yours of a few months ago. That happened on occasion, and yes there were a few such RPG's (though I do not remember seeing any not posted on in months, a month possibly). The general activity is rising. However, this could just as easily be attributed to the fact that it is nearly summer and college and school workloads are lessening (or at least for those within an education system that gives summers off) then other factors, not to say that those factors have no pull either. But activity is, by no means, exponential.

But that is not so much the argument. I am curious as to the fact why you had no interest in responding to any of my other arguments. It would seem, without further explanation, that you were picking what it was easiest for you to argue against and not addressing anything else I said. So there is frankly one of two options: the first that you ignored my other arguments because you either thought they were correct or secondly that you might have ignored them because you are being as stubborn as I have called you.

But to the Talkback it is.

Bulbasaur4
24th May 2006, 11:01 PM
[color=royalblue]

Okay, screw the talk back forum. I can move these posts or delete them later if I want to. In any case, I firstly want to address your attitude Plantae. Now, I’m not saying that you’re trying to “come across as a prick” or trying to start a fight, but you are certainly not trying to be courteous. I know this is probably the way you write, but I’m just saying that it sends bad vibes at least, for me. Of course I am a bit sensitive to the words in both the spoken and written language, so it could just be me.

In Ryan’s defense, he’s not picking the issues he’s trying to win easy arguments over. I bet he’s coming to defense to the first issues he disagrees with and addressing them first. Stop assuming things, because you are doing it a lot. Especially since your source of information seems to be mainly from one person, which isn’t good enough. If you have problems or questions before, you should have asked more than just Tsukasa. ESPECIALLY with the rating system, which thoroughly pisses me off.
But, I will address your points so as not to leave that much out so you can’t use the same argument with me as you are doing with Roy Karrde.

Character Limit

I disagree with the character limit and I take the same view point as Samchu and Roy Karrde on this. While I agree that some people perhaps spread themselves too thin, there are people who do not. Of course, you mentioned that the Ranking Topic could perhaps prevent this, but even the Ranking Topic would have flaws. A person who perhaps is very active might not be viewed as the best RPGer… and the best RPGer might not be very active, so which bullet would one bite? Also, you have to think of an RPers rights as well. What if they are only allowed 2 characters, see a new RPG and really want to make another character to join that RPG? What will they do? They could very well go to their old RPG and say, “I’m withdrawing from this RPG so I can make another character.” While sure, their character could become and NPC… it still will become a problem and I’m sure many people would do that. I would be irked with such a system, because let us face it – people get bored with RPGs after a while. Posting becomes tedious, story lines get lost… things like that.

Besides, we are a board where people are free to do what they like. If we start implementing all these rules, people are going to get fed up and leave or just stop caring altogether. You can’t prevent people from getting bored with things or getting busy, and THAT is the main reason for inactivity.

RPG Limit

Basically the same applies here with my thoughts. Yeah, there are a lot of crappy ideas… but everyone is entitled to try. If they fail, they’ll learn and eventually they’ll try again. Things that don’t seem interesting to others might seem interesting to some… and while every idea is a good try, just some times the mood of the board decides what is going to work and what isn’t. I don’t see an overwhelming number of RPGs being started by one user or another, so it isn’t like someone is making RPGs left and right. I don’t mind having topics that aren’t necessarily active on the board- you know why? Because they help show people what is and what isn’t working. And what harm are they doing? NOTHING. If the admin wants more space, the admin will take care of that. Otherwise, it might ‘look cluttered’ but who gives a care about that. There will always be topics and if we suddenly became more active, the topics will push the others out.


Approval Topic

Doesn’t work. I don’t know if you think an Approval topic will make the RPG forum more active… or if it’ll make things less clutter-like, but it just doesn’t make a difference. In other words: wasted effort. I’ve been apart of two separate boards that had approval topics and I just sorta laughed at it. Firstly, the boards were very active with the approval topic and there were probably two topics that were active. As for the other topics? They were approved but there were still many flops because while maybe a moderator thought it was a good idea or a few people thought it was, the majority of the board thought it wasn’t. Personally, an approval topic takes away freedom for the idea of ‘getting rid of bad RPGs’. My thoughts? If we have bad RPGs, people won’t join them and what is the worst that happens? They sit there and other RPGs are given better attention.


Pruning

Pruning isn’t some thing I’m interested it. I agree with Ryan with his thoughts about it being a “waste of time”. It frankly is because NOT pruning the board isn’t hurting. The admins go and flush out topics when they need to. That is why we archive- so when the “flushing” occurs, good RPGs aren’t wasted. Besides, there ARE some RPGs that come back from the grave. Take the DBZ rpg for instance- yeah, it moves like a snail but the fact is that it MOVES. And how long has that topic been there? A very long time… and look, it is surviving.

Ranking System

Okay, this is what makes me angry- and I don’t get angry often.

Firstly, I don’t like assumptions. You’re making an awfully big assumption in saying that the reason the Ranking System isn’t up is because of laziness (or heavily implying that). That just ticks me off and you have NO RIGHT to say that. The reason the Ranking Topic didn’t go up was my decision, yes, but it wasn’t due to laziness. It was because I thought it was a good decision to leave the Ranking Topic suspended for a few months until the ASB RPG topic was up and running for a while. The reason? Because new things stir up new activity- which the ASB RPG has shown. If we use all our new resources right away, our bursts of new activity will die. That is what I thought and many people agreed with me upon that idea. The RPG Ranking topic will come because I say it will come, so don’t assume that just because it has been put off that it isn’t coming.
Also, your little comment about the RPG Tournament taking forever and how many strings you had to pull to get that going? Well, you better not have been addressing me- I’m not saying you were, but you better not have because I didn’t want anything to do with it except for the fact that I would perhaps judge. That was my choice and I had every right to decide that.



I also want to make another comment… you know, everyone keeps saying that we have to make the RPG forum more active! They keep complaining… but I don’t really see it. Most of the people who complain about it don’t post a lot themselves or don’t take the time to do new things. If you want to help change the world, you have to start with yourself. The fact of the thing is that the reason we’re inactive is because of our generation. The majority of RPGers here are either in college or going to graduate soon. We used to thrive in this forum when we were young high schoolers or middle schoolers, but the fact is that we’ve grown up. The new members we recruit are our age because that is who we hang around with – so our age is “Old” on the relative scheme of RPGs. So with that, hell yes we’re going to be busy and have lags because everyone tends to have finals around the same time and what-not. You want to know why it is hard to get lots of new members? Because we’re the POKEMASTERS- not many people are interested in pokemon anymore and even though the RPG forum itself isn’t entirely around that concept, the name is. You might say that ‘being busy is an excuse’ but well you know what, it is a legitimate one.

The fact is that we are busy and with that fact, we have to pick and choose what we’re going to do about that. I’m not going to let the fact that I’m busy prevent me from joining the RPGs I want to join or doing the things I want to do. I’m going to try my best to get things done. I’m not going to tell you why I’ve been busy in this post, those who want to know have IMed me, found out and happily supported me. Those who want to b*tch about it without asking me can just keep b*tching. Not that I’m saying you are Plantae, but you darn well make it sound like it. Not just I, but all us moderators and I’m sure that neither of us appreciates it.

Outlaw JT
26th May 2006, 09:14 PM
I just have one simple counter-arguement for you Plantae in the form of a question.

How is limiting the amount of activity each individual may show (ie limiting the number of characters they can have or rpgs they can start) going to encourage activity in the forum? Cutting off people's outlet for their own creativity, either by telling them their RPG isn't good enough to be posted or by saying they're not allowed to even apply to additional RPGs, is only going to discourage them from becoming active at all. Yes people will post bad RPGs, yes people will make bad posts, yes people will spread themselves a little thin with too many characters. If you try to discourage them from expressing themselves, however, why on Earth would they feel compelled to contribute more to someone elses expression. I would call your attention to something it says in one of the rules listed above. This is an equal opportunity forum! By restricting the opportunity for every member to express their vision, no matter how wonderful or horrible that vision may be, you are destroying what this forum is supposed to be about.

On a related note I feel compelled to voice, since it has been brought up in this discussion, that I was then am now and always will be VEHEMENTLY opposed to the institution of a ranking system. You can word it in whatever pretty way you like but no matter how you phrase it the ranking system is telling someone that they can't be in some RPG because the people in it are better than them! It's calling out to the community and saying 'This is who you should and shouldn't RP with because they are better than you or you better than them'!! In truth I believe the ranking system is no more friendly to the community at large than any of Plantae's ideas which you moderators have voiced so strongly against.

Asilynne
27th May 2006, 12:58 AM
I have a strange new concept. How about we all stop arguing back and forth about things that have nothing to do with anything important and get to what this forum is all about, lest we forget. You remember roleplaying right? Lets not turn this forum into a bunch of political fluff or plan things out for the operation of the board so much that we neglect the whole point of the board in the first place.
Planning and making rules and setting guidelines and what not are all fine and good but I think the board gets more active when people just cut the crap and pour their soul into a great roleplay. So lets get back to that shall we? ^v~

Edit: One more thing. Rather than be like "OMG need more activity!1111" why dont we go for quality over quantity. Yeah activity is great but some of this sounds like your trying to squeeze activity out of the forum like businessmen squeezing profits out of a store. We re not employees, we re all here because we find it fun, and we will be as active or as inactive as we choose. Take away the freedoms and make it feel like we re all required to put something out, and it will kill the whole point. Creativity cant be strangled out of someone. Everyone should just relax and stop turning it into a number crunch game.

Plantae
27th May 2006, 02:39 PM
When did this get unlocked? Oh, well, I appreciate the arguments, but I have already had my epiphany. I understand what you mean exactly and am thus conceding here.