Screw the FCC!

[PokeLady Jeannette]

And screw the idiots who censored Jynx from the anime.

PS. To the woman who protested to have Jynx banned: If I ever find you...I'm gonna hunt you down and have you killed! And I promise you...Jeannette will try to make your death a quick and painless one.
PPS. If you can't stop anime companies doing stupid things, find out who did them and have them killed...by your own hand. Suck up to them and when they least suspect it, put them out of their misery. (Why have corporate anime company politics, when you can spice them up with a bit of assasination?)
PPPS. Permission to nuke the FCC headquarters?
PPPPS. I said enough, now I'm gonna bath in a bathtub of holy water to purge those evil thoughts from my beautiful brain.

[Misty]

Jynx pretty much IS banned - the Ice Cave ep where she shows up is banned, and I've never seen Holiday Hi-Jynx(though Zak claims he has). The only time Jynx has appeared in a non-banned ep is a cameo in the Prima ep.

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Jeez Janette, take a chill pill!

I don't think the FCC had anything to do with this...for once. If they did, WB wouldn't have gotten away with airing the Prima episode...and I don't just mean for Jynx, if you catch my meaning.

[Jeff]

Jynx pretty much IS banned - the Ice Cave ep where she shows up is banned, and I've never seen Holiday Hi-Jynx(though Zak claims he has). The only time Jynx has appeared in a non-banned ep is a cameo in the Prima ep.

I've seen Holiday Hi-Jynx on Kids' WB but it han't been shown in a long time to my knowledge. It's probably banned now.

[Water Pokemon Master]

I have seen it a million times, and I have it on tape. I don't think it is banned anymore.

[PokeLady Jeannette]

4Kids and the WB shouldn't have to do what the FCC says! So what if they get fined, at least they'll be doing us a favour for a change.

PS. Do I still have permission to have the FCC blown straight to hell? That way, all American Tv stations can show programs the way they were meant to be intended, no racist censorship, etc. Either that, or get someone from NHK, TV Tokyo etc to get a merger going with the US stations.

[P0RYG0N]

Only available on those old DVDs and videos now, but if you ever go out looking for it, you should know that they put it way out of place. It was stuck somewhere between the 8th badge and the leauge, if I remember correctly.

[Crystal Mew]

Woah, calm down , jeeze. Seriously, re-read your post, you are over-reacting just a tad.

I have seen the holiday jynx episode also, have it recorded somewhere...same with that tentacruel epi, and the epi where james has boobs, they showed them all on kids wb.

and LOL @ your sig porygon

[Zhen Lin]

4Kids and the WB shouldn't have to do what the FCC says! So what if they get fined, at least they'll be doing us a favour for a change.

PS. Do I still have permission to have the FCC blown straight to hell? That way, all American Tv stations can show programs the way they were meant to be intended, no racist censorship, etc. Either that, or get someone from NHK, TV Tokyo etc to get a merger going with the US stations.

NHK broadcasts in America under the TV Japan and NHK World. Elsewhere, you could also get NHK World Premium, which carries a few of the entertainment shows.

TV Tokyo licences their shows, rather than broadcast internationally. As far as they're concerned, Pokémon is already licenced.

As far as I am concerned though, the FCC has no business in the field of regulating the content of broadcasts, only the manner of broadcasts itself, i.e. safety standards, frequency allocation (of which they aren't doing well), etc.

However. Broadcasting internationally is expensive no matter what. You need satellites, which do not have a worldwide footprint (i.e. locations where the signal can be received). A fleet of satellites, no, one satellite alone is very expensive, and if you don't have your own, then you'd need to lease bandwidth from providers, and bandwidth is limited.

In any case. Broadcasting shows as the creators intended is rarely done. There are cuts to make it fit time (Lord of the Rings anyone?), laws to follow, audiences to reach (Only a couple hundred million people speak Japanese worldwide). And translation is more difficult than you think. There are words which cannot be glossed simply (i.e. a simple word substitution). Other times, there are puns which do not translate. (kinoko / hinoko "mushroom / ember" came out as amber / ember, for instance.) Then, there is culture, which no amount of footnotes will do justice to, for instance, for instance, itadakimasu, which is said before meal, which is the distal (i.e. more polite to the listener) form of the verb itadaku, which is a humble (to the person giving) verb meaning to recieve, with a connotation of being grateful, yadda, blah. The language barrier is higher than you think.

[The Muffin Man]

Only available on those old DVDs and videos now, but if you ever go out looking for it, you should know that they put it way out of place. It was stuck somewhere between the 8th badge and the leauge, if I remember correctly.

Technically, no. It was waaaaaaaay before the 8th badge. Ash still had Charmander in the eps if I recall. Ash had Charmeleon since just after the Koga battle.

[P0RYG0N]

...you should know that they put it way out of place
When the episodes Holiday Hi-Jynx and Snow Way Out first aired, they were wayyyyy past due. And one of the most obvious things about them (Or at least, I know for sure on Snow Way Out) was that Charmander was still... a Charmander. And since they didn't wait for the whole series to finish before putting episodes out on video, they either had to stick it in late, or nowhere.

EDIT:http://www.serebii.net/anime/dvd/indigo/21.shtml

[Animelee]

The Porygon episode came on a week before that episode was meant to air, meaning when Pokémon came back on the air eight months later, that episode was postponed until Christmas, about thrity episodes after Lizardon (Charizard) was fully evolved.

When TV Tokyo/Shogakukan shipped over the episodes to 4Kids, they marked them wrong, meaning 4Kids waited to dub it about six months after it's meant airing, which was after 4Kids themselves shipped out about the first thirty dubbed episodes to Kids WB! and YTV.

As for Rougela (Jynx), I don't think it was the FCC's choice to ban her, rather it was 4Kids taking precautions. So far, they banned two episodes that featured her predominately, and cut out a thirteen second scene with her in a Pokémon Contest in AG 013. So far, she hasn't been seen in any episodes/specials/OVAs/movies in Japan since, because I bet 4Kids told them not to feature her anymore, sadly. :(

And even though GAME FREAK changed her from black to purple starting from Ruby/Sapphire because Nintendo of America was doing it since Gold/Silver, and even though her colours were changed in Ken Sugimori's art, I guess 4Kids is playing it safe.

Green/Red:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/Animelee/124RGPic.gif

LeafGreen/FireRed: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/Animelee/124.png

There's an interesting old topic on this issue on Toon Zone, so if any of you are interested: http://forums.toonzone.net/showthread.php?t=119907&page=1&pp=20&highlight=Ganguro

[PokeLady Jeannette]

See! It's not so (beep) hard, Not4N***ers Entertainment. Just digitally change the colour of Jynx's skin from black to purple and for once in your life, break a few FCC rules for crying out loud. (Besides, the fines are a small price to pay to get Jynx back on the screen).

PS. I had to bleep out the N-word. Is okay?

[Animelee]

Woah, woah, woah. By saying "Not4N*****", you're saying that 4Kids is prejudiced against recent African decendants, or what you put, the n-word. They're trying to be sensitive to those who are recent African decendants, which is why they're playing it safe and cutting those episodes and scenes out, which I agree is stupid, because Rougela definitely isn't a charicature of dark-brown people.

Please be careful in your choice of words in the future.

[Magmar]

So let me get this straight

It's OK to censor Jynx becuase she appears to be a black drag queen
but we can't censor Mr Mime for being an obnoxious little white boy??

[Animelee]

For some reason, in America and Canada, it's okay to make jokes about how lame recent European decendants are (they can't dance, they're so lame, they have no rhythm, they can't jump, cracka-ass), but if you make a joke about a dark-skinned person, then it's not okay.

Personally, I don't think either are okay.

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

It depends on the race of the person saying it, really. That seems to be how it goes.

[PikaJames2004]

Oh, please. CLOSE THIS THREAD!

[Kari and Mewtwo]

The FCC is run by a black dude who sucks up to the demands of soccer moms. What the **** were you expecting?

Soccer moms.. always trying to ruin this ****ing country. Its such a saddening fact that there are people out there in the US who moan and bitch about every single little thing out there, and yet Japan gets away with brief nudity in anime.

[Dogasu]

Wow, if I was a mod here, this thread would be closed for Kari & Mewtwo's and PokeLady Jeanette's racist comments. A Pokemon board is the last place you guys need to be throwing the n-word around.

I could go on and on about how the people who don't see that Jynx is a negative stereotype are idiots and how it makes sense that she was banned, but instead of beating that dead horse to a pulp I'll just point you to the big write-up (http://www.bulbagarden.net/~dogasu/bashing/racist_jynx_01.html) I did some time ago.

[Kari and Mewtwo]

Sorry bout that, I didn't intend for it to be racist but I'll change it anyway.

Also speaking of stereotypes, I once saw a picture of Jynx on a page loaded with racist jokes (some of them were actually pretty damn funny, especially the Jewish & Polish ones)


Stereotype - Black people smell bad.
FALSE - Black people smell great. I love the smell of fried chicken and watermelon :)


Stereotype - Stereotypes are always ill-mannered and mean.
FALSE - They can be funny when you're obviously not serious*points up*

[Housyasei-san]

Jeanette, I can't believe your 30 years old and still acting like a child.

PS Please grow up.

[The Muffin Man]

Sorry bout that, I didn't intend for it to be racist but I'll change it anyway.

Also speaking of stereotypes, I once saw a picture of Jynx on a page loaded with racist jokes (some of them were actually pretty damn funny, especially the Jewish & Polish ones)

*cough*XD good to see SOMEONE over at SPP likes me.


But Jeanettes attitude and personality has taken a spike lately...perhaps her mother passed off the name to her daughter? Or another relative?

[Magmar]

Or maybe you guys are freaking out over a Pokemon?

meh, screw the aclu,. jynx is funny
especially that voice.
jyyynx

[Animelee]

I could go on and on about how the people who don't see that Jynx is a negative stereotype are idiots and how it makes sense that she was banned, but instead of beating that dead horse to a pulp I'll just point you to the big write-up (http://www.bulbagarden.net/~dogasu/bashing/racist_jynx_01.html) I did some time ago.

Again, your opinion, but like I said on Toon Zone:

* Pokémon was being developed in 1995, and was released in 1996 -- the height of the ganguro fad.
* Adults (people who developed Red and Green) were particularily fed up of ganguro.

All meaning Rougela is a ganguro caricature, and all people who don't see that are idiots. It's funny that you mention "long, blonde hair" as a point for her being racist. To those of you who don't know, the ganguro would tan their skins to a dark-brown, exentuate their lips with white or pink lipstick, and die their hair blonde. If anything, they were trying to look like California beach blondes. If Rougela really was meant to be a caricature on recent African decendants, she would have black, curly hair.

http://karoshi.report.free.fr/KImgC/k43eggL.jpg
A ganguro.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/Animelee/124Pic.gif
How Rougela used to look.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/Animelee/124-2004.png
How she looks now.


For those of you who don't know, the ganguro fad was a fad that started in around 1994, gained strength in 1995, and started to fade at the end of 1999. Girls would die their hair blonde, tan their skin to a dark brown, and wear makeup on their lips. Some to look like hiphop artists from America, and some to look like Californian actresses. Stupid, stupid fad.

~~~~

Edit: I cleaned up the thread. Please, no prejudiced "jokes", comments, etc. This thread is just about Rougela and her censoring. Please remember -- this is a Pokémon message board, alright? I know for a fact a lot of little kids come here, so keep it clean and friendly.

[Dogasu]

Copy and paste time!


There are a few problems with that. For one thing, why would Game Freak base a pokemon on a fad that no one would remember a few years later? That would be like having a Pog pokemon or a Beanie Babies pokemon--yeah, you'd get a laugh out of it at the time, but it would look exteremly dated.

Another problem is the date. The ganguro girl fad started in the mid-90's, right? Or at least that's when it reached its peak. However, Satoshi Tajiri and his crew at Game Freak started work on the game in the early nineties. It took them six years to finish Red/Green (that number, by the way, comes from the Time Magazine article that ran in the November 22nd, 1999 issue). Now, we don't know WHEN during that six-year period Jynx was created, but I doubt it was some sort of last-minute addition. I'm sure that it was thought up of early in the game developing process, which would place its conception BEFORE the ganguro fad started in Japan.

Also...



You can't tell me Japanese people don't see black people in their everyday lives

They don't. I've been here in Japan since March, only going home for a month in late July/early August for summer vacation. And you know what? I've only seen about five black people in Japan, and three of those were Americans who were living in the same dorm as I am. There just AREN'T many black people at all around here. Japanese people DON'T have daily contact with black people. To them, they're just these characters in the movies and in music videos who are removed from their everyday lives. Seeing a particular group of people on TV and interacting with them in day-to-day life are two completely different things.

And now, to reply directly:


To those of you who don't know, the ganguro would tan their skins to a dark-brown,

Rougela's skin is black, not dark brown.


exentuate their lips with white or pink lipstick,

Rougela has red (or...well, rouge) -colored lips.

I honestly think that your fandom for Pocket Monsters is blinding you to the truth that Rougela is based on a negative stereotype. You seem to be under this mindset that the creators of one of your favorite franchises would never even consider placing a racist image in the show, but the truth is that they did. You can deny it all you want and hide behind your ganguro theory, but I'm afraid that I strongly disagree with your logic on this one.

[Animelee]

My fanboysim isn't getting in the way this time. Usually when my fanboyism gets in the way, it's in terms of where I spend my time or money, but not my
way of looking at something realistically.

I have some art in game guides and wallscrolls with her, and in a few, she has pink lips. Besides, not all dark-skinned people have red/pink lips, some have lips that match the rest of their dark skin, too, like my dad.

Yeah, she has black skin, but do any humans truly have black skin? Even in middle Africa, the place that receives the most UV rays, people aren't black, they're a very dark brown. If Rougela was truly a caricature, she would be dark brown, with black, curly hair, with a weird-shaped head and a fat bottom lip, like in those old prejudiced Warner Bros. cartoons.

She has black skin because she's an Esper and and Ice-type. Look at her dress, she's an ice princess. I've read different stories about an ice princess who was so jealous that she would freeze any of her lovers if she even thought they were looking at any other women than her, and they even said in the book that she had a black heart.

And isn't it funny that no one thought she was a stereotype until that lady published her article? Honestly, when you looked at her for the first time when you first became a fan in '97/'98, did you think she was a hateful Pokémon?

Like I keep saying, she's based on a ganguro, and the "ice princess" thing, hence her black skin, hence the flashy dress, hence the reason she's Esper/Ice, hence the reason she has long, straight, blonde hair. Tell me if you've seen people in those old cartoons or on any toothpaste boxes with long, straight, blonde hair.

Edit: The reason she has big lips is because of her most likely because of her move "Demon Kiss", which just supports the "ice princess" theory of mine even more.

Edit 2: See, look at her arms, she has one of those arm-length "princess" gloves on, like Princess Peach from the Mario franchise.

Like I said, I don't see how anyone can see a "black" stereotype.

[Chris 2.1]

Holiday Hi-Jynx isn't banned in the Uk. I've seen it on Toonami many times.

[The Muffin Man]

Rougela's skin is black, not dark brown.
Did you even read his post? He said to look like North American hiphop stars. It probably wasn't to be tan but to get as dark as possible. Besides, the trend in the mid 90s seemed to be for black women in hiphop to be as light skinned as they could be.




Rougela has red (or...well, rouge) -colored lips.
And Pink is a shade of WHAT color?
Survey SAYS! RED.


I honestly think that your fandom for Pocket Monsters is blinding you to the truth that Rougela is based on a negative stereotype. You seem to be under this mindset that the creators of one of your favorite franchises would never even consider placing a racist image in the show, but the truth is that they did.
Oh yeah, they purposely decided "Hey let's piss everyone off. That's a great idea."

I think you're just trying too hard.

You can deny it all you want and hide behind your ganguro theory, but I'm afraid that I strongly disagree with your logic on this one.
You're splitting hairs. Why not get on Houndoom for being a nazi because the Nazis may have used rottweilers to attack the jews? Or Gligar! Who's to say all gliding scorpions would be purple? That's unfair to non-purple gliding scorpions! And why stop their? I've always found Chansey offensive. It has short hair in a somewhat flip-style, cut short, tipped with red, and it's big and round. That's an obvious attack on how americans are obese and it offends me that they think we're nothing but pink, overstuffed mothers with colored hair! It's quite offensive!

And not all bulls charge. I demand all episodes with Tauros are taken out as they are unfair to wild bulls who do not use their tails to whip themselves into a rage!!


EDIT - After reading Animelees post, he brings up a good point. Why would a black woman be an ICE and PSYCHIC type? Neither type fits the look of Jynx unless she's an ICE SPIRIT...Plus she kisses opponents, which puts them to sleep*The ice princess of legend lured men away and when they slept, kissed them which caused them to eventually freeze to death*.


Lombre and Ludicolo may be stereotypes, but they aren't negative stereotypes the way Rougela is.
This is absolute bull and you know it. How the hell is a Lombre(it's name is even based off Hombre...) less of a stereotype, or less of a "bad" stereotype? He doesn't look too interested in much of anything, he's rather grumpy, not that great in battle. Even as he evolves and becomes a more jovial fellow, he still doesn't seem to like to do anything but dance. One could say this was an unfair stereotype of mexicans being lazy an only wanting to goof off?

And about Speedy Gonzalez, I believe it was eventually contested how negative a superfast, quick thinking, quick-witted mexican mouse was, considering he was the opposite of most stereotypes.

[Water Pokemon Master]

Even though I am a huge fanboy, I do agree that Jynx was based off one of those black people. However, I do not think that Jynx should be banned.

[Heald]

You are all fools. The creators of the damned game have said the reason she is black is because she is actually a shadow or something. I can't remember the correct word they used but they said she was some enchanted shadow-witch or something, not a f*cking gollywog.

[Animelee]

Really? I guess I'll look for it on Google. Not that I don't believe you, I just want to get the exact quote for everyone to see.

LOL, I searched for Gollywog, too. Did they get banned, too?

[Heald]

I am 95% sure that either Game Freak or Nintendo said Jynx was a shadow-creature or a dark-spirit or a ghost or something like that. Can't remember where I read it.

I'm not sure of the fate of the gollywogs. They used to be toys for children (in Enid Blyton's Noddy, one of the families in Toytown was the Gollywogs) but I think someone pointed out they were racist so yeah, they were probably banned. I still have an apron with a picture of a gollywog on.

[Dogasu]

I have some art in game guides and wallscrolls with her, and in a few, she has pink lips. Besides, not all dark-skinned people have red/pink lips, some have lips that match the rest of their dark skin, too, like my dad.

The vast majority of the artwork I've seen with the character (which includes the official promo art for the anime, pre-purple skin) has her with red lips.

Besides that, ganguro typically had white lipstick on, not red.


Yeah, she has black skin, but do any humans truly have black skin?

It's based on a STEREOTYPE. Stereotypes, by their nature, exaggerate features that the people making the stereotype have noticed. People typically call African Americans black? Then let's give them black skin!


And isn't it funny that no one thought she was a stereotype until that lady published her article? Honestly, when you looked at her for the first time when you first became a fan in '97/'98, did you think she was a hateful Pokémon?

When I first saw her in 97/98, I thought the same thing I thought when I first saw Mr. Popo in Dragon Ball Z..."Damn, that's pretty obvious."

And the woman wrote the complaint like a week or two after "Holiday Hi-Jynx" first premiered. It's not like she sat around for a few years before writing the article.


Did you even read his post? He said to look like North American hiphop stars. It probably wasn't to be tan but to get as dark as possible. Besides, the trend in the mid 90s seemed to be for black women in hiphop to be as light skinned as they could be.

Again, her black skin reminds people of the stereotype, not the way African Americans really are. Two very different things there.


Oh yeah, they purposely decided "Hey let's piss everyone off. That's a great idea."

I think you're just trying too hard.

In Japan, no one gives a sh*t about offending black people. Why? Because there aren't any in Japan. Like I said before, when I went, I only saw a very small handful, and most of those were students from America who were on the same study abroad program that I was. For most Japanese people, black people aren't real--they're just funny things you see on MTV and movies.

I'm not saying that they're purposely trying to piss African Americans off. But the Japanese are very ignorant of what's considered racist and what isn't. I've seen blackface caricatures around Japan. I've heard Japanese people scream out "What's up n*****!!" thinking that it's something cool to say. They honestly don't know any better.


You are all fools. The creators of the damned game have said the reason she is black is because she is actually a shadow or something. I can't remember the correct word they used but they said she was some enchanted shadow-witch or something, not a f*cking gollywog.

Of course they said that. NOA isn't going to step up and say "yeah, she's based on negative stereotypes of black people."

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

For most things I can see if it's a negative stereotype, but I've seen native African art that looks like that. So...why is it offensive when someone of another race draws it? I know it's associated with offensive comics and all, but was it the art that was really considered offensive? I thought it was the situations the charactures were put in, and how they were made to act, rather than how they looked.

[Animelee]

Dogasu, you're making the Japanese sound like these innocent little children that don't know about the world. I've only seen Kazakhstanian people on TV, but if I ever saw a Kazakhstanian person in real life, you think I'd say, "Hey, where's your goat?!"

Just because there are hardly any brown people in Japan doesn't mean the Japanese people are going to say, "Wow, a 'black' guy! That's incredible!" when seeing one.

Maybe you're speaking on behalf of the older generation, but Satoshi Tajiri and most of his crew were born after the World War II era, thus meaning they're more worldly because of the changing culture when they were growing up. There's no doubt they'd be seeing Motown music on TV growing up. It's not like brown people were things he and his crew only saw in National Geographic magazines, or something.

And why would someone base a Pokémon on people who have recent African ancestry? Is Barriered (Mr. Mime) a caricature on the French, saying they're all pansy, pale sissies who never use force, and just pretend to do things? I bet if peach-skinned people were the minority in North America, then some of them would be complaining about Barriered. I mean, basing a Pokémon on a supposedly "mysterious" population of people (even though Japanese culture was emulating American culture since the early seventies) is like basing a Pokémon on a pencil.

Yeah, I could see why it would be weird to base a Pokémon on a teenage fad, but I do see more of a similarity with the ice princess theory now. After all, there are a lot of Pokémon based on fairy tales, like Rokon/Vulpix and Tylto/Swablu.

There's no denying the long, blonde hair that represents those European fairy tale princesses like Rupunzel or Cinderella. The white forearm-legth gloves, and the ballroom dress, too; think Zelda or Princess Peach. Then remember, she's an Esper and Ice-type, because she's one of those dark-souled princesses that lure men (wiggling hips), and kisses them with her seductive pouty lips, putting them to sleep with "Demon Kiss". And like Heald said, they said she's a shadow witch or something, which gives us another reason why she's literally black-skinned, and why her signature move is called Devil Kiss.

Even disregarding what Heald said, the theory that Rougela was based on the ice princess fairy tale makes a lot of sense.

http://www.deadbeat.dk/film/features/warner/
http://www.rotten.com/library/culture/banned-cartoons/

^ You guys can see for yourself some pictures from those old cartoons, and see if Rougela looks like that to you.

[The Muffin Man]

Once again, to reiterate Animelees points: Why else would she be Ice/Psychic? Neither type fits a stereotypical black person at all.

[Magmar]

Meh, Rougela/Jynx (I think 99%+ of us refer to her as Jynx) doesn't really seem to be THAT blatant... I mean, the manner she acts yeah, but she acts more like that aunt you don't want to kiss than a black whore.

Maybe the name, rougela = rouge + ella? I think she might just be a whore in general. Seriously, she was gonna be colored SOME color skin, get over it so she's black. I don't see Ash running around with Asian features, other than his black hair.

If people just didn't CARE, things wouldn't happen.

People have to realize that discriminations in the past WERE made and DID happen, you can't erase it from history. 150 years ago, black people were slaves. 250 years ago, Americans were tax-slaves to the British. 50 years ago, non-whites didn't even have civil rights. That's stuff that DID happen.

So panicking over jokes about black people from pre-Martin Luther King Jr. is just, well, historically irrelevant? Back in those days, people made fun of blacks. Oh well. Can't help it. We still do it today but it isn't politically correct and it shouldn't be on TV of all things. But trying to purge it from the history books is another matter altogether.

Japanese people make fun of blacks, oh well let them, not my problem, and I'm sorry if you're hurt by it, but go complain to Japan or something, because at least in America, for the most part we don't do that crap anymore.

I DO agree that the woman had a point in saying that Jynx was portrayed as a black stereotype. Changing her skin color to purple solved the problem HERE, sure, but that doesn't change the fact that there is racism in japan.

And that's my Arizona Stand.

[Magmar]

Jynx's outfit reeks of being from the North, she always reminded me of a Viking lady on one of those ships, hence the Ice aspect.

Jynx has powers to persuade, manipulate and perform telekinetic attacks: hence the Psychic aspect.

The only thing fishy about the Pokemon, though, is the given name Jynx... if she's harmlessly a Norse goddess or something like that, shouldn't she bear a name similar to Lorelei's? I don't know much about Norse paganism (but my friend Phil IS norse pagan), but say Balder, the god of beauty in Norse paganism. A name based on that would be relatively harmless, or something that makes her seem less... idk... like she jinxed Nintendo?

also, Skadi-- Norse Goddess of snow, skiing, hunting and independence. Something cute like Skadi?

This is the first mention of Skadi speaking in the Norse mythology:
Then Skadi said this:

I could not sleep
by the shore of the sea
for the noise of the mew
that awakened me,
the bird that flew
each dawn from the deep.

Wouldn't that just tie in just dandy to the Pokemon storyline? Draw an Articuno reference at the same time.

[P0RYG0N]

The ganguro argument is a pretty vaild one, the only thing that throws me off is the existance of Mr.Popo. He and Jynx look way to alike to easily say they have no connection, and I strongly doubt Mr.Popo was based off of the ganguro fad in any way. (And I'm not sure, but he was created years before that anyway, wasn't he?)

[Water Pokemon Master]

Throws in a fact for people to debate about: Let's not forget that Jynx is the "humanshaped" Pokemon, supporting the black person theory.

[The Muffin Man]

Throws in a fact for people to debate about: Let's not forget that Jynx is the "humanshaped" Pokemon, supporting the black person theory.

Or the Ice Princess theory. You know, because princesses are human.

So that's a moot point.

[Water Pokemon Master]

Oh well. Just trying to see what you guys can come up with. :)

[Heald]

The ganguro argument is a pretty vaild one, the only thing that throws me off is the existance of Mr.Popo. He and Jynx look way to alike to easily say they have no connection, and I strongly doubt Mr.Popo was based off of the ganguro fad in any way. (And I'm not sure, but he was created years before that anyway, wasn't he?)Mr Popo is a genie, so technically a spirit. The reason he is black is probably the same as Jynx - they are both spirits, so I guess the Japanese have some idea that all spirits are black in colour.
Of course they said that. NOA isn't going to step up and say "yeah, she's based on negative stereotypes of black people."I anticipated this argument to Jynx being a spirit. But considering it doesn't really have any fact or objective evidence to back it up, only the opinion that the makers of the game are lying, then it's bullshit.

[Magmar]

Mr Popo in DBZ is a good guy though, so he's black, there's like no variety in the skins of the white people either. and Popo is never portrayed as being stupid; he's actually quite handy as Kami's assistant... even though he IS the assistant... slavery... blasphemy... bah.

[The Muffin Man]

Mr Popo in DBZ is a good guy though, so he's black, there's like no variety in the skins of the white people either. and Popo is never portrayed as being stupid; he's actually quite handy as Kami's assistant... even though he IS the assistant... slavery... blasphemy... bah.

Yeah, in DBZ Mr.Popo is quite the intelligent guy. A problem comes up and only Popo can handle it? That badass will have it done in time for lunch.

[Magmar]

i think its just the fact that there are black people annoys them

i mean look at the all-black cast shows... seriously, they seem to enjoy abusing themselves

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

She didn't say anything about what I mentioned earlier, with the two black people ever on the show have been bad guys...

[P0RYG0N]

On one episode of DragonBall or DBZ I remember there being a competetor in that worlds martial arts tournement (Or whatever they called it.) who was undeniably a black person, not only that, but a stereotypical version that somewhat reminded me of those old bugs bunny cartoons. This is just going off my memory from a long while ago, but I'm almost positive of it. (If anyone knows of some sort of DB/Z episode image website, I'll look into it.:D)Something like that supports Dogau's idea of how the japanese look at black people.

I think I should remind everyone that Jynx was one of the original 151, and that Gamefreak probably had no idea that Pokemon would be popular enough to get to America. So at the time they probably didn't care, or have a reason to care.

[Heald]

On one episode of DragonBall or DBZ I remember there being a competetor in that worlds martial arts tournement (Or whatever they called it.) who was undeniably a black person, not only that, but a stereotypical version that somewhat reminded me of those old bugs bunny cartoons. This is just going off my memory from a long while ago, but I'm almost positive of it. (If anyone knows of some sort of DB/Z episode image website, I'll look into it.:D)Something like that supports Dogau's idea of how the japanese look at black people.The person you are thinking of is Killa (Kira in Japan) and although he was black he was definately not stereotypical. He had dark brown skin...guess what, (some) Africans have very dark brown skin. Being black isn't enough to be a stereotype, he didn't have any features of a golliwog and he definately did not have big red lips. Also, Uub was sort-of black and he was one of the most powerful protagonists. Pretty good, huh?
I think I should remind everyone that Jynx was one of the original 151, and that Gamefreak probably had no idea that Pokemon would be popular enough to get to America. So at the time they probably didn't care, or have a reason to care.Yeah, but if anyone has actually been reading my posts, Jynx is actually a dark-spirit. It is called Jynx because dark-spirits cause bad luck, which is what a jinx is. In Japan it is called Rougela because it is Red. Also, read the Pokédex entry. It is seductive. It seduces its foes with its looks then jinxes them with Lovely Kiss. Jynx has always looked like an evil black blob with eyes and lips dressed in drag.

[P0RYG0N]

I remember big lips, but it has been awhile...

[Water Pokemon Master]

I remember in an episode of DB where Krillian and Goku had to go find a rock Master Roshi had drawn on and threw into the forest, and Krillan tried to cheat by writing on a rock he found with a marker he had gotten from a black lady.

[P0RYG0N]

I remember in an episode of DB where Krillian and Goku had to go find a rock Master Roshi had drawn on and threw into the forest, and Krillan tried to cheat by writing on a rock he found with a marker he had gotten from a black lady.
Okay, thank you, WPM. :lol:

[PikaJames2004]

PLEASE CLOSE THE THREAD! I'M SICK OF ALL THIS TALK ABOUT JYNX LOOKING LIKE A BLACK PERSON, AND THIS HAS GOT TO CEASE!

[Animelee]

Your "yelling" won't help, either. You don't have to visit this discussion if you don't like what's being said. These kinds of topics will always exist in a Pokémon forum. When this topic dies, another one will be created within a year from now. That's just how it is.

Anyways, I totally agree about the Viking thing. The way she's dressed, she looks like a those paintings I've seen of Viking-type of women from northwest Europe. If anything, she's based on Nordic stereotypes, especially her Japanese name, Rougela. "La" is the feminine word for "the" in French, and "rouge" is the French word for "red". I know France is not part of the Nordic region exactly, since French women are sometimes thought to be seductive with the way they walk and their pouty lips, it makes sense. So if anything, she's based on Europeans and their cultures, and not Americans who are of recent African decent.

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

You know, now that I think about it, didn't the Norse goddess of the underworld, Hel, have black skin due to the blistering cold?

[Dogasu]

Dogasu, you're making the Japanese sound like these innocent little children that don't know about the world.

A lot of them don't. From what I noticed, a lot of Japanese people seem to have the same knowledge of the rest of the world that a typical American is stereotyped as having. I know that Japanese people are stereotyped as being a people who always study and are super-smart, but that doesn't mean that they can't be ignorant (or even prejudiced against) African Americans.


I've only seen Kazakhstanian people on TV, but if I ever saw a Kazakhstanian person in real life, you think I'd say, "Hey, where's your goat?!"

Of course you wouldn't. Then again, you're not Japanese.


Just because there are hardly any brown people in Japan doesn't mean the Japanese people are going to say, "Wow, a 'black' guy! That's incredible!" when seeing one.

Actually, that's almost exactly what happened. When I was in Japan, the other white people and I would get stares on the street because we were white. The black people (all two of them) from the States would get just as many, if not more, stares from the Japanese.

Another example of ignorance: there was this one black guy in the second semester who was continuously mistaken for this black guy who was at our school during the first semester. The two didn't look anything alike, but the Japanese people who made the mistake thought they were the same just because they were both black.


Maybe you're speaking on behalf of the older generation, but Satoshi Tajiri and most of his crew were born after the World War II era, thus meaning they're more worldly because of the changing culture when they were growing up. There's no doubt they'd be seeing Motown music on TV growing up. It's not like brown people were things he and his crew only saw in National Geographic magazines, or something.

Replace "National Geographic" with "People" magazine and you'll be correct.

Like I've said before, the media is the only way most Japanese people learn about black people.

I realize that I'm doing a lot of overgeneralizing, stereotyping, and painting images of ignorant Japanese people. However, that honestly isn't my intention. But after living there for almost a year and noticing how a bunch of university students act, it quickly becomes obvious that they may not be as open-minded as many people think they are.


And why would someone base a Pokémon on people who have recent African ancestry? Is Barriered (Mr. Mime) a caricature on the French, saying they're all pansy, pale sissies who never use force, and just pretend to do things? I bet if peach-skinned people were the minority in North America, then some of them would be complaining about Barriered.

Mr. Mime is clearly based on a mime. I don't think anyone would debate that. However, with Jynx, we've had thread upon thread about the character pop up with people throwing out suggestions varying from origins such as "black stereotype," "penguin," "bear," "ganguro fad," and "Nordic Ice Princess." In short, no one seems to be able to figure out what the damn thing is based on.


I mean, basing a Pokémon on a supposedly "mysterious" population of people (even though Japanese culture was emulating American culture since the early seventies) is like basing a Pokémon on a pencil.

We have pokemon based on the letters of the alphabet. It wouldn't be that outlandish.

Besides that, I don't believe that, if the pokemon was indeed based on the negative stereotype, that it would be intentional. I seriously doubt the creators said "hahaha, we hate black people. Let's make fun of them with this pokemon!" Instead, I bet that they just saw some figurine or old cartoon and harmlessly thought "Oh, how neat. Let's use that." It's perfectly fine for the Japanese audences, but when the show's brought to the US, it's understandable that the same character would cause controversy.


http://www.deadbeat.dk/film/features/warner/
http://www.rotten.com/library/culture/banned-cartoons/

^ You guys can see for yourself some pictures from those old cartoons, and see if Rougela looks like that to you.

The debate here and the one that Mrs. Weatherford started all those years ago was that, despite the pokemon's supposed origin or character model, the end product still resembles African American stereotypes a little too much. Was Mr. Popo based on a black person? No, but it's still close enough to the old stereotypes to be offensive to some people. Were the Spongebob valentines that were misprinted last year that made Spongebob look like he was in blackface based on a black person? No, but it's still close enough to the old stereotypes to be offensive to some people.

Was Jynx based on a black person? No, but it's still close enough to the old stereotypes to be offensive to some people. THAT'S why the character's banned.

[Adamant]

Um, jus wondering, but why do you people call black people "african americans"? It's not like they're all american.

[Dogasu]

Um, jus wondering, but why do you people call black people "african americans"? It's not like they're all american.

African Americans is meant to be the PC term. It's the equivalent of calling a white person "caucasion."

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

The PC term for Americans ONLY.

[Almond]

Hey, yeah. I demand to be called "European American"!

[PokeLady Jeannette]

Okay, let's put a pin in it, please. Mod, close topic and delete.

[Dogasu]

Okay, let's put a pin in it, please. Mod, close topic and delete.

Unfortunately, a topic about Jynx tends to pop up every few months (most of the time out of nowhere), so this thread, if closed, would just be replaced by a similar thread in no time at all. I think it's better to just keep one general "Jynx" thread instead of having a new one pop up every few months.

[P0RYG0N]

Exactly, I can understand people being offended by this thread, but nobody's forcing them to read it. :\

[Craig]

Unfortunately, a topic about Jynx tends to pop up every few months (most of the time out of nowhere), so this thread, if closed, would just be replaced by a similar thread in no time at all. I think it's better to just keep one general "Jynx" thread instead of having a new one pop up every few months.

Agreed. I feel no reason for this to close, if people want to debate the merits of Jynx in the pokemon anime (civilly) it will happen.

[Animelee]

Black people, white people, yellow people, red people. All these terms, and the term "race", are wrong, genetically. Yes, it's a fact that people from hotter climates have darker skin, and colder climates have lighter skin, etc. But things like this change, and scientists say recent European decendants that live in Florida will eventually end up being medium-brown like the Native Americans, who arrived there 15,000-years-ago.

"Black" people will eventually become like that within the next 5000 to 10000 years, as well. Even people who study genetics like me can see that happening now. Of course, people are too busy trying to group humans into even more groups, which is wrong (not morally, but scientifically, I mean). It doesn't matter if someone's your twin brother or your penpal from Tibet, they share 99.9% of their DNA with you. There is no such thing as a "race" of people that's closer to you genetically. Each person has the same amount of minor differences to others -- like I said, you and your brother share the same amount of differences and sames than your penpal in Tibet.

Things like skin colour, nose size, hair texture, hair colour, eye colour, and the amount of fat in the eyelids come from diet and environment. Northeast Asians have a thicker layer of fat in their eyelids because of the Ice Age they had to endure. The thicker layer helped protect their eyes from the glare of the snow.

People from Africa and the Middle East have big noses because it helps them filter out sand so they can breathe better. Hair texture helps protect you from the sun's rays, and the hotter the climate, the curlier the hair, because it helps protect your brain from getting fried.

People in Northwest Europe evolved lighter-coloured hair to help absorb vitamin D from the weak sun. Same reason their skin got lighter. Also, the amount of vitamin D one gets is also used to help balance out the folic acid in pregnant women, so the baby can survive.

Northeast Asians are short because their recent ancestors were mostly grain eaters, and they didn't get enough calcium or meat protein. Only now are we seeing the Japanese, Chinese, and Koreans getting taller by a few inches by the generation. Also, their eyes are losing the extra fat little by little, and eventually, they will look like the Northeast Europeans, but because of global warming, they will have a medium brown skin like people in north Iraq and Iran.

Like I said, these things are mere tiny variations from population to population, and people are always adapting. Race/sub-species does not exist in the human species (Homo sapiens sapiens) because: we all live in very similar ways, and because we're such a young species, only 100,000-years-old. And scientists doubt we will ever split up into sub-species no matter how old our species gets, because we all live in a similar way.

Anyways, the reason I mentionned all this is because of all the "race" talk in this topic. When people talk about race, I just can't help but mention by genetics studies...

Also, let me mention "black" and "white". Does ANYONE have black or white skin? Northwestern Europeans have a very light brown-peach skin colour, while people in middle Africa have a dark, dark brown, but never black, because they would DIE if their skin couldn't absorb vitamin D. Same thing if people had white skin, they would all die of skin cancer.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v409/Animelee/l_073_04.jpg

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Well, there's the albinos, but that's not a race.

[Windra]

Jynx pretty much IS banned - the Ice Cave ep where she shows up is banned, and I've never seen Holiday Hi-Jynx(though Zak claims he has). The only time Jynx has appeared in a non-banned ep is a cameo in the Prima ep.

I saw the Holiday-Hi-Jynx, but not the other ones. Unfortunately, I missed the one with Prima/Lorelei...

But that's just so friggin' ridiculous that Jynx was banned from the sight of the US and other countries for...idiotic reasons. Ludicolo mimicks some Spanish cultures (Sombrero, name...)! Are they going to ban it from the screen, too?

Dear protestors of Pokemon in Anime...,
Get a life.

[Dogasu]

But that's just so friggin' ridiculous that Jynx was banned from the sight of the US and other countries for...idiotic reasons. Ludicolo mimicks some Spanish cultures (Sombrero, name...)! Are they going to ban it from the screen, too?

Good God, how many times do I have to say it:

LUDICOLO AND ANY OTHER POTENTIALLY OFFENSIVE POKEMON AREN'T BANNED BECAUSE NOBODY COMPLAINED ABOUT THEM THE WAY JYNX WAS COMPLAINED ABOUT.

Really, it's not that hard a concept to grasp.

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

But seriously, what about the thousands of fans--of all races--who've said they have no problem with Jynx? Shouldn't that outweigh a single complaint?

[Windra]

Good God, how many times do I have to say it:

LUDICOLO AND ANY OTHER POTENTIALLY OFFENSIVE POKEMON AREN'T BANNED BECAUSE NOBODY COMPLAINED ABOUT THEM THE WAY JYNX WAS COMPLAINED ABOUT.

Really, it's not that hard a concept to grasp.


First of all, I'm new, I haven't read that part, so don't jump down my throat straight away.
Second, that doesn't mean nobody will complain about it in the future. It may very well be only amatter time. But then, it might not happen. Just depends.

People are growing way too sensitive to harmless things when it makes no enormous impact on their everyday lives. At least the creators of Pokemon are not as bad as those in Disney...

[The Muffin Man]

So, you're saying that until someone is offended nothing should be changed? What the hell kind of idiotic bullshit is that?

Then put Jynx back on the air. Until someone bitches, keep her on the air.
"But that's not fair at all!" No. It's quite fair. You can't pick and choose what's banned because someone already complained. How long ago did they complain? Chances are they've given up on it. Probably sueing someone in a supermarket for hate crimes because they grabbed the last box of Cheerios, and then claiming the lawyer, judge, jury, and stenographer(sp?) are all racist because she lost the case.

This is what people like her do(NOT BLACK PEOPLE, I AM NOT RACIST). They sit and wait and prey on those with something to lose. If whoever was being sued(I assume Nintendo of America and 4Kids?) defended this case, they would be branded as "racists". It'd be business suicide anyway.

[Kari and Mewtwo]

Ludicolo = Mexican
Jynx = African American
Spinda = Chinese?

What will they think of next?

[Windra]

Then put Jynx back on the air. Until someone bitches, keep her on the air.
"But that's not fair at all!" No. It's quite fair. You can't pick and choose what's banned because someone already complained. How long ago did they complain? Chances are they've given up on it. Probably sueing someone in a supermarket for hate crimes because they grabbed the last box of Cheerios, and then claiming the lawyer, judge, jury, and stenographer(sp?) are all racist because she lost the case.

This is what people like her do(NOT BLACK PEOPLE, I AM NOT RACIST). They sit and wait and prey on those with something to lose. If whoever was being sued(I assume Nintendo of America and 4Kids?) defended this case, they would be branded as "racists". It'd be business suicide anyway.

*Bows* I agree wholeheartedly. Unfortunately, you're right about the business suicide thing... So I get the point. I also see the stupidity in the entire ordeal. All because of the skin of the Jynx, darker than midnight, was compared to the skin of an African-American (no offense), whose skin varies from dark chocolate-like color to light.

Yep... Pathetic. They're just looking for something to complain about, ne?

[Dogasu]

But seriously, what about the thousands of fans--of all races--who've said they have no problem with Jynx? Shouldn't that outweigh a single complaint?

That's like saying that there are thousands of people--of varying backgrounds--who don't find anything wrong with the word "faggot." Shouldn't those people outweight the minority that do find it offensive?

Just because only a handful of people complain about something doesn't mean isn't valid and should be ignored.


So, you're saying that until someone is offended nothing should be changed?

No. I'm saying that until someone is offended, nothing will be changed.


How long ago did they complain? Chances are they've given up on it.

The "how long ago did they complain?" isn't really a factor here, since we're all sitting here, years after the fact, still discussing this woman's article. Obviously it's still in people's minds if we can generate a multi-page message board thread on the subject.

If 4Kids was to un-ban the character, it would be the equivalent of them giving the middle finger to Mrs. Weatherford and everyone who agrees with her. And when you're a business, alienating any part of your consumer base is just bad business sense.

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

That's like saying that there are thousands of people--of varying backgrounds--who don't find anything wrong with the word "faggot." Shouldn't those people outweight the minority that do find it offensive?

Just because only a handful of people complain about something doesn't mean isn't valid and should be ignored.

But that's different--there isn't just *one* person complaining about that word's usage, now is there? It's not a matter of thousands vs thousands, it's a matter of thousands vs ONE.

[Almond]

That's like saying that there are thousands of people--of varying backgrounds--who don't find anything wrong with the word "faggot." Shouldn't those people outweight the minority that do find it offensive?

Oh, sure, because a word that refers to homosexuals being burned alive is so the same thing as some woman's idiotic delusion that everyone's out to get black people.


If 4Kids was to un-ban the character, it would be the equivalent of them giving the middle finger to Mrs. Weatherford and everyone who agrees with her. And when you're a business, alienating any part of your consumer base is just bad business sense.

I think you're the only person who agrees with her, Dogasu.

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Also, 4Kids had no trouble laughing off all the people who claimed that the Abra line was the spawn of the devil. Do you call that 'them giving the middle finger'?

[Craig]

I don't think Dogasu actually agrees with them banning Jynx, he's just more of a "Hey.. well, thats not a very good move for 4Kids to make"

Am I right?

Dogasu please don't post huge blocks of text in huge fonts like that. Bold will suffice I think :)

[PokeLady Jeannette]

How would you feel if a Japanese lady was declared President of the USA? (Would it be cool?)

[pokemasterfrank]

But seriously, what about the thousands of fans--of all races--who've said they have no problem with Jynx? Shouldn't that outweigh a single complaint?

Can a few thousand fans outweigh a court decision? If things get big enough on the complaints, people could sue for being offended and crap >_> Gotta love the American Court System.


How would you feel if a Japanese lady was declared President of the USA? (Would it be cool?)

Umm...wtf? I don't understand what this has to do with the topic o_O

*goes back to hiding under his rock*