What Makes a Good RPG?(Mod Approved Discussion and Help topic)

[Ruffie]

I can't take it anymore. It is truly a shame to see the board in the condition that it is right now. I'm talking about this one, the RPG board. So many RPGs go down the drain, many of them don't even make it to 30 posts. I ask you, what's going on?


From what I've noticed, it rarely has anything to do with the plot of the RPG. Many RPGs are very creative, but never make it. Others...well, I won't comment on those. Point is that the players are to blame, if anyone. And this is how:

First. One reason RPGs sink is because of bad managment. I've been in countless RPGs where the RPGmaster is nowhere to be found. This is a problem, no matter what the Master's role is for the game. Sometimes, the plot is so vague the RPG can run itself. But that's not very often. I can understand if a Master simply loses interest or has no time for the RPG. In that case, someone else should take over. Also, there are situations where too much intervention of the Master can kill an RPG. Depending on the plot, there will be times when it's best to let it run its course. A Master can't be too constraining, but not too lethargic either. It's really like managing anything else, you can't wing it and magically have the RPG finish like it should.

Second. Believe it or not, subplots can also kill an RPG. Try not to make it too much of a soap opera unless it's supposed to be that way. A strong plot doesn't requires many more additions. A weak plot may need a few more intergral elements added later, but you can only add so many. Just recently, an RPG I was in finally lost its grip after being started three times because of the weak plot, next to non-existence of the RPGmaster, and way too many subplots. Also, it's best to really draw things out with a subplot, but not too much. It's best to think of the RPG as a novel and a game. If you're lucky you may even help write something publishable. In fact, RPGs follow the same general rules as novels. I hung out in the Fanfic forum for quite some time before migrating here. The players have to work together, yet separate in order to make a great RPG and one worth their time.

Third. This one still gets under my skin. The quality of posts seems like it's declining. I don't mean content in particular, albeit that's a bit of an issue too. I'm talking about character interaction and just stuff you should know about the English language. When posting, it's usually a good idea to follow the grammatical and punctuation rules of the English language you should've learn in class. I cannot tell you how much it annoys me to find someone who does a sloppy post. I don't care if it's the focal point at which the climax of the RPG begins. If I can't read it, I disregard it completely. It's just like writing a story. If you write crap, no one will read it. It's plain and simple as that. You can't wing this one either. Take the time to run it through a spell checker or something. I don't care. But don't waste people's time.
Speaking of disregarding posts, that happens a lot. Characters don't always react when they should. It's a good idea to just take the time to read some of the other posts before you post. A lot of people will also complain that they're not getting included. Well, let's see. If you're waiting for someone to leave the door open for your character, then yeah you won't be included. You have to assert your character. Period. There's no way around it.

Fourth. Clashes with the players. One thing that's guarenteed to kill an RPG is if a player is dominating it. I've seen it happen and it's incredibly annoying. I don't mind people having a bunch of characters. I mind when they have a bunch of important characters. And in any case, it's best not to have more than a few at a time. It becomes a serious pain to keep posting for all of them once the number exceeds four. Hell, I can't even keep up with three. So try not to butt other people out. That just sucks.


I do realize that not once have I mentioned the phrase "what makes a good RPG". This topic is about more than just that. It was made to address all issues, from the state of things here at the RPG board to the simple of unwritten ettiquette of RPGing. I also intended it as a help forum. Maybe someone has an idea for an RPG, but doesn't know quite what to do with it. They can ask for some advice, then post the final product in "Yes or No". Or maybe someone's having problems with a character. Get some advice here.

I welcome any support or objection to my opinions. And I leave you with this little discussion starter:




What DOES make a good RPG anyways?

(Many thanks to Bubla for giving me approval of this topic, and for posting a similar topic long before I did.)

[kalad1]

Well, I think a big problem can be an RPG having too many essential RPers, I mean, if one drops out, it's doomed!

[Arnen]

I think a big problem is people sign up, and never post. A lot of mine hardly make it past the sign-up stage. Another problem might be half-formed ideas, where the GM has a spark of an idea and just goes ahead and starts it. Over-formed RPGs are a problem too, where the GM posts most of the time, and it's pretty much a fanfic then. My old RPG, Tale of Heroes, is a good example -.-'

[The Muffin Man]

WARNING - THIS WILL OFFEND YOU!! If you are offended easily, and do not wish to be offended, please leave the real world NOW!





Anyway....



The real problem in the RPG forum is really bad RPers. NO BODY tells them they suck, so they think they're good. Pokemaster Pichu, Vegeta200, Kalad1, DarkBlastoise...people like this are bringing RPG down, but people who DO tell them they aren't great are met with ignorance and refusal to get better. It's as if people like Kalad, DB, and others just WANT to test the patience of the mods...THESE are the real problems...

[Haruko]

Originally posted by The Muffin Man
WARNING - THIS WILL OFFEND YOU!! If you are offended easily, and do not wish to be offended, please leave the real world NOW!





Anyway....



The real problem in the RPG forum is really bad RPers. NO BODY tells them they suck, so they think they're good. Pokemaster Pichu, Vegeta200, Kalad1, DarkBlastoise...people like this are bringing RPG down, but people who DO tell them they aren't great are met with ignorance and refusal to get better. It's as if people like Kalad, DB, and others just WANT to test the patience of the mods...THESE are the real problems...

I hope I'm not one of those People...

Sometime's the RPG person forget's about it(Done it)..Ok. So I'm a Bad RPG maker, but to me, I think I do ok in RPGing. Even RPGing has helped me with English..but anyway..

Sometimes Lack of Care, Person goes on Vacay and tell's noone..or They just forget, hoping no one post's on it again...

I signed up to so many RPG's, I sometime's forget which One's I'm in, so I just don't post. I'm starting to limit how many RPG's I'm in.


I also Might make a RPG soon, and Make the effort to Post 2x a day, no matter what...

*Crosses fingers..hopeing she isn't one of the People Mike talked about..*

[VirtualPlay]

hm…good idea. A lot of things have been bugging me…

1) Post Quality
I think this is the most important part of an RPG. I can usually tell by the end of the first page whether or not an RPG has potential. If most of the posts are short, lacking description, and/or full of grammatical/spelling errors (spelling not quite as much), I can tell it's going to flop. Also I can usually tell by the sign-up forms that have been completed whether the posts by those people are going to be great or sucky.

2) Plot and Story
Almost as important as the posts is the plot the posts are based on. One line to one paragraph plots usually don't get good posts. Extraordinarily long plots are usually thick and tangled, causing lots of confusion for the RPers. If a plot is too thin, then posts are usually delayed because nobody knows what the GM wants to do. If a plot is too think, then poss are usually mangled and have some dissonance with the plot at some point.

Umm…ummm…I have more to say…but I'm too tired to collect my thoughts properly…I'll post again sometime soon when I'm more……concious

EDIT: actually, TMM summed up what I was trying to put down in words for my last point…

[Gladiator]

I'll agree with the Muffin Man. We have bad RPers on the board, I speak from experience as a bad RPer. I might sound like I'm putting myself down, but I think I'm quite honest. I can't Role Play, I never stick to character, and I don't post as often as I should. Sometimes, I have ideas for RPGs, but I can't start one because of my laziness. I know this yet I still try. This is probably the most positive social interaction I get in my life. If it hasn't been obvious before, I hate people (well at home). This affects my skill at Role Playing, but I like the people here so I keep on coming.

By the way, thanks for not mentioning MY name MM. I'd prefer to badmouth myself.

On other notes, I think a good plot is an important basis for the RPG. If it is detailed and has a new concept or one that is taking a different direction (ex: there are many Yu-Gi-OH RPGs, but has anyone considered Dungeon Dice Monsters?), it should be able to attract some RPers.

The title serves some purpose. It should be original or creative, but still be able to tell you what it is about.

The RPers who already have signed up can also play an important part. If you are a good RPer and you see an RPG that is very original with a good plot, but see that a bunch of bad RPers have signed up. You know it is a good idea to not sign up, or wait until at least three other decent players sign up.

[Master Rudy]

It's already been mentioned but I'll say it again. When you start to lose people it's going to bring down an RPG. It may happen slowly at first but pretty soon the RPG will go under. Of course it's not always a person's fault. I remember a time last year from December 2001 to March 2002 when my computer had a virus. It was so bad that I couldn't even get Windows to boot. During that time I was part of Dragon Ball VG. From the time I left to the time I returned there was almost no movement at all in the plot. Other times a person leaving can be a problem is when they don't say anything about it. If you know your not going to post in that RPG anymore or are going to be away for awhile then at least let someone know. If your the person that started it then try to find someone else that you either trust to do things right or is willing to help out.

Another big one is people who don't do anything to get involved and sit back and wait for someone else to involve them. I've encountered this problem several times in the past and I find it quite annoying. You can't expect to be included if your not making an attempt to include yourself. I'm pretty sure that there are some people who will agree with me on this one.

Another problem with RPG's can sometimes be people that try to force their way into it. Once again I've got an example from DBVG. We once had a guy (Maxim was his name I believe. Someone from VG correct me if I'm wrong)that tried to force his way in when Nall said we might need a few new characters soon. Once he said that we got Maxim in the RPG. Not only did his background and profiles make no sense due to other character profiles but he kept insisting he didn't need to be approved by Nall since he said he needed more people. Thankfully that whole problem got taken care of before he could start to affect the RPG.

Power RPing
The one thing that I really don't care for in an RPG has to be this. I've been in RPG's where one person would have a character that could beat impossible odds, never lost a fight and could pretty much overpower anyone. It's kinda hard to explain but anyone that has encountered it will know what I'm talking about. If you want more detail then talk to Mike since I'm pretty sure he's got many examples.


I think that this pretty much covers the things I've seen that can make RPG's bad. As for successful RPG's I view them like this:

Good plot+Good ACTIVE RPGer's=Success

Sure there's more to it than that. However I think it goes without saying that the two most successful RPG's I've been in so far are Dragon Ball VG and Dawn of the Blood Moon. If there is one thing they had in common it was a good plot along with some great cast members ^_~

[Snakes N' Legends]

I am not that great of a RPGer but I have "evolved" my normal standards.

I think it is the fact that people wait for something interesting to come up so they can post. I am a waiter constantly. In One of Every Pokemon, I finished a post involving a comment to Dark Mewtwo. I still never got a comment back. I don't like to post when someone else doesn't post. If I do, It just seems that I am overstepping my boundaries.

Another part is that people lose interests in RPGs. First factor into this equation is originality. If the RPG is not bold and daring, then why join it. Another factor into the equation is how interesting the RPG is throughout the RPG. If it fails to meet its needs then it will go down. Other time people just don't care about it.

One major factor is the how the RPGer posts. If it doesn't go along with plotline (I should know. In Pokemon School 8 ... I think, I didn't go along with the flow. I didn't want to make my character power hungry just give him a little boost. If you don't believe me, ask Damien. He should know. I remember him telling me to stop trying to influence any of my plots into the story.

That's all I can think off. I just hope I am not in the list of Bad RPGers. Maybe bad RPG ideas but not a bad RPGer.

[DarkBlastoise]

the real problem is ppl (yes i spell people ppl so what? it doenst mean anything) like Muffin Man who think that just cuz they have a fancy title and a little more power than the rest of us can go ahead and deleter perfectly good RPGs without even a look or a warning (and I KNOW uve been doing this MM and ive had it) and think they can control everything...bye the way you said "they're" and not they are oooo...-2 points for MM..and btw:

YOU SUCK

now that thats settled...a good RPG well it has to have the base elements of a good plot, charachters, and also the creator has to have contributed to other RPGs in order to get popularity on his or her side, also what the others excluding a few ppl *cough*Muffinman*cough* said is perfectly fine

[Drusilla]

Originally posted by The Muffin Man
WARNING - THIS WILL OFFEND YOU!! If you are offended easily, and do not wish to be offended, please leave the real world NOW!





Anyway....



The real problem in the RPG forum is really bad RPers. NO BODY tells them they suck, so they think they're good. Pokemaster Pichu, Vegeta200, Kalad1, DarkBlastoise...people like this are bringing RPG down, but people who DO tell them they aren't great are met with ignorance and refusal to get better. It's as if people like Kalad, DB, and others just WANT to test the patience of the mods...THESE are the real problems...

AMEN!!!!
I totaly agree with Mike (and it's not just because we're bf/gf either!). DB, the mods are given those powers because THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING! They have the talent, knowledge, and judgement to make the choises that must be made. I think that if people would ACTUALLY LISTEN TO THE MODS we'd be better off.
Another thing that's a prob that I'm surprised that no one has brought up are the n00bs that make 6-line posts that are all diolauge. I don't know about the rest of you, but I find that really, REALLY irritating...
*gets off the soapbox*
~*~Dru~*~

[KaptainSarcasm]

I think that the most important thing in ANY post is grammar. Not even in just RPGs, all posts. I love the English language, and I think those that take advantage of it should not have the right to use it. Use what you spent all that time in school to learn. I mean, a few typos or spelling errors are okay, but really, try not to type like a complete moron. People take things more seriously when they're written better.

So, yes, I agree with Mike that the players are the most important thing in an RPG. All plots can made better by a smart RPGmaster.

Just like D&D! ^^ I have the best Dungeon Master right now. Hehehe.

[Discothéque]

Originally posted by DarkBlastoise
the real problem is ppl (yes i spell people ppl so what? it doenst mean anything) like Muffin Man who think that just cuz they have a fancy title and a little more power than the rest of us can go ahead and deleter perfectly good RPGs without even a look or a warning (and I KNOW uve been doing this MM and ive had it) and think they can control everything...

Er... *cough* Usually, what can make or break an RPG is the lenght of the plot. TMM, and other mods, delete RPGs because the plot is very little or the whole thing has no point. Unless others or yourself make these kind of plots, then they (usually) won't be deleted.

Also, how long someone's posts are can do very well in an RPG. People, who are good RPGers, usually leave an RPG that may be a few good people who can RP but the rest of the people RPing use two or three line posts that usually have no direct subject within the plot, only there to be there. Also, good grammar goes a long way.

(Do not read this and become offended, anyone.)
You could have a line:

"Teh ppl luked at me, confuzed an alarmed, b4 they quicly ran of."

Or:

"The people looked at me, confused and alarmed, before they quickly ran off."

Which would you rather RP in? I know I'd rather be in the RPG that you don't have to struggle to read what someone posted. Even some words that are used in not their correct way can throw off a whole post, so it's something to look out for.

And also, an RPG with interesting characters can boost how well the RP does. Cliché, cookie-cutter characters over-running an RPG might not do as well as an RPG with interesting, unique characters that have personalities and everything that you won't see very often. So, perhaps, when you're creating your character, take the time to make them interesting and unlike any you've seen before. ^^

Also, if you have a problem staying dedicated to RPGs, just join one or two at a time so you'll have time for them.

Whoo, thoughts are scary, they never stop... O_o

[Arnen]

Gladiator, I agree with you. I know I'm probably a bad RPer, but I come here anyway cuz my life sucks and I need to get away from it.

[RaZoR LeAf]

It really ticks me off when people fill out sign up forms so vaugly. Some people put alot of information into sign up forms especially for history and personality, i can only say Ginger and B4 as exmaples right now, but i know others do too.

Sure alot of people put about 3 to 4 lines of history and a good description of personality but i hate it when you read a personality exherpt and it says

Personality: Very mean
That doesn't really give any idea what the character is like.

Another thing that REALLY annoys me, and i mean REALLY. Is when people use another character for their description.

Description: Like Goku

Who the hell is Goku? I know he's a DBZ character but not everyone watches it. I don't know what Goku looks like and i'll be damned if i go searching the net for a picture just so i can describe a meeting in an RPG post.

[Ruffie]

I'm really glad to see that so many people are aware of this. You have all raised very good points I had failed to mentioned in my initial post. There are two things I'd like to say before this discussion continues.


1. To prevent flaming wars, please do not mention the names of anyone whom you think is a bad RPer. It's mean, and extremely unattractive.


2. TMM and DB, the bickering stops NOW. You've already told each other "you suck" so leave it at that. I don't want a flame war, and I will make sure one doesn't get started. That's not what the topic was created for.

Thank you.

[Arnen]

Yeah, I was thinking about that... You guys better stop, or at least flame each other via PMs so we don't hafta suffer through it.

[DarkBlastoise]

"Teh ppl luked at me, confuzed an alarmed, b4 they quicly ran of."

well i can understand that even if its pretty illegible still the fact is ppl are typing pretty fast (in most cases) because they either want to respond to something, gain a position (say u want the Water Element or something) are angry and want to retort at something, are confused and dont want the RPG to go on w/o asking that question or want to post how it happens before anyone else...

and Ruffie youre right this conflict has to stop, as soon as TMM stops deleting all my RPGs that as soon as he see's (which is normally 20 min-1 hour) destroys with out warning, or a given reason as to! even if i dont post perfectly like most of u ppl there is no right in doing that!

[Bulbasaur4]

Yay! I'm glad to see you decided to put t his up Ruffie, I really think you did a wonderful job on describing what this topic will be used for and hopefully this can help work towards making this forum even better.

A lot of people have made good points, and I totally agree with practically every thing. In truth, this forum could improve in every single way we could think on to make it perfect, but some parts need to be addressed more than others. It could change however, as time insues, but for now I think we are scraping the surface of something far deeper.


Before I go into what I personally think needs to be done (and I'm probably gonna repeat a lot of what's been said. ^^;), first I want to address Mike and DB. First of all, ^^;; Mike was very blunt into posting those names which probably is gonna be a major source of flaming if we don't turn down the heat to begin with. But I'm not taking sides here... but I will say this:
No more.
I'm pretty sure Mike won't start a flame war here with you DB, nor will he probably change his opinion about your RPGs to begin with. If you think that your RPG plot is good enough, then perhaps type it up and then PM it to Mike, Ginger or I and we'll see if we think it's a good enough start. THen you can post that it's been approved and it's perfectly fine- that way no one can say if they think it isn't detailed enough or not. But if you want to argue about this then take it some where else- we dont' want this to be filled up with angry rants. And t hat goes for anyone else too.
If you have a problem..- a personal problem, PM some one about it- don't drag it out here. ^^;; Just for further reference... this is a discussion topic, not a personal problem solving topic. ^^;


*takes a few tylenol pills, swallows some water and pats forehead with wet towel*
Okaaay..

Now, I really think Rudy was very right to say that a success of an RPG doesn't just depend upon the Maker, the Plot Line or any one thing but it really depends on every key element. I'd like to say that Dawn of the BLood Moon is a great example of a successful RPG. I think a reason of this is because it has a great plot line, very detailed characters (it's impossible to get bored in that RPG with such interesting and twisty characters) and I believe we have dedicated people in it. They all try to post when they can, if if one person is gone they all make a group effort to patch it together and make it work until they get back.


One thing that irritates me is when people whine about not getting interaction. Occasionally I come across this problem and it severely aggitates me. You can't go around expecting people to come to you, you must make an effort to go to them. I know countless times when I see some one make a pointless and angry post about how their lost and angry because no one likes them! WHy? Because no one is talking/interacting with their characters!! I have to laugh or slap myself when I see this and groan as well. You can't expect people to go out of their way or to make their characters oddly leap and stretch to interact with your character just because you won't do it yourself. Take action! Be in charge! Get Messy!! *blink blink* Errrm... yeah. Just, if you want intereaction- make some!! Make your character 'bump' into another.. have them trip another character!! MAke your dog bite their dog!! *blinks* *takes an asprin pill* Yeah..


I think another thing that I notice is that quality is always-
*hears people groan*
^^; Yes I know I know!!! I always talk about quality!!! BUT IT IS QUALITY DANG IT!! IT IISSSSSSHHH!!

If you are in an RPG, and you post just dry, barely-scratch-the-surface-posts it gets soooo boring to work with that person's character. I think that might be a problem why some people don't get interaction- because they are boring to work with. Okay, imagine some one who you notice doesn't post very well and their character's point-of-view posts are really bland. Now, would you want your character getting involved with that one? No! Because then all the work is put on you to keep this 'plot' going! ^^;; It's sorta hard to explain... I'm hoping I'm doing it alright. If your post is long and full of quality about your character's emotions, their thoughts, actions, and full of description and flowing to keep the plot moving along, and then the person playing the other character just posts a phrase of what his/her character says and a few vivid descriptions.... yeah, obvious it won't work out. Why? Because again... your doing all the hard wooork! lol.

I think another key to solving this, is to communicate as well. If some one is falling behind or if their posts aren't doing very well for you- let them know. Now, I'm not saying take a paper fan and hit them over the head with it while threatening to kill them if they dont' make better posts. Noooo... I mean to do it, *gasp* nicely. Tell them that you want to continue to RP with them, and that you are sure you'll enjoy it you just have a few suggestions to make it more fun and easy. Ask them just to perhaps add some more detail and make their character come alive to further put the RPG into more depth. If you say stuff like that niiicely... you'll avoid harsh feelings and a flamewar and the other person might thank you for the advice.


I could probably go on forever on this... but I'm not an expert or anything, just a bored person with a lot of ideas and I like to talk. =^^= But on more thing which I think is just fun:
CHARACTERS

Characters are awesome and we should handle them with care!! If you create a character, make sure to put some life and deep thought into them! Don't just whip them up like a simple peanut butter sandwich!! Add some jelly! Make them more interesting by adding bananas! *Yes, I know I'm comparing characters to food items*

If you create a character, just don't pull them from the back of your pocket- really, really think about what you do with that character. What additude do you want him/her to give off... but how does he/she really feel? Imagine them in your head and know them inside and out. Picture how you want them to come across in the RPG... and plan out their life, but also feel free to be flexable if changes come across. Ask yourself, "How would he/she change if some thing drastic were to happen to him/her?"

It's also fun to spice things up too. Add things in a character you normally wouldn't think of before- make them have a flaw, make them unique in more ways than one. It's good to have a character that you love- with teh same appearance, personality and all... but once in a while, don't be afraid to c hange. A variety of people/characters/beings in an RPG are the very ingredients to the big pot of the RPG. The more intense they are, the better the RPG will be.


^^ Yay!!! I like this topic a lot! I hope again, that this can perhaps be used as a reference or a 'problem solver' for some common RPG problems. ^^

[Mewtwo-D2]

I used to make excellent RPG's and characters, but things just haven't seemed to be going well...
If anyone remembers, back in the day I won a bunch of awards, and had cult-type games. Time-Space Continuum and the Gundam High Trilogy, if anyone remembers them. Then as I grew as a gamer, I tried out such short-lived ones as Shadow of the Phoenix, Astralis: Les Autres Monde, and most recently, When Angels Deserve to Die. At first I didn't understand what went wrong with my games, but I think I know now. I prefer strongly character driven games, putting a lot of emphasis on background and personal development: less on group dynamics. Unfortunately for my games, most seem to prefer large groups and more action than I provide on my own. I also tend to get a lot of sign-ups that only post once. I've done that a few times myself, but I try to minimize my character interaction in case of that. ^^; It may not be the best idea, but it keeps from messing up the story too much.

I think what makes an RPG good starts with the plot, continues with the post quality, and ends with the plot of character dynamic both strong. What makes a bad RPG is varied: anywhere from bad plot, bad players, bad characters- whiners (you know who you are) and power RPers (you do too)

[Bear]

I guess I should throw my two cents worth into this debate =)

I think another major problem that plagues the boards is simply the lack of original plots. I've been around this board for almost three years now, and this problem has become much more omnipresent as of late.

Simply put, we're running out of original ideas. I think that also can account for alot of the RPGs failing. People see the sign ups, read the plot, and think "Oh great, it's another one of THESE" and it turns them off completely.

Now I've had my fair share of flopped RPGs. Out of the 98 RPGs I have started, maybe 55-60 of them got past 30 posts. Now, there are several possibilities that could account for this, most of which have been mentioned already: Lack of activity from members or the Master, too many side plots, not ENOUGH side plots, feuding between RPGers, and simple lack of imagination on my part. I believe most strongly that the last one is true most often. But then again, that's just my opinion.


Also, one last thing I would like to say before I conclude.
Mike, I'm going to be honest with you. Your flagrant and malicious abuse of the younger board members has to stop. Now. You were the only person to mention names in your post, and I think it was completely unnecessary. Being a moderator does NOT give you the right to harass and degrade other members at your whim. We were all newbies once, including yourself. I am sick and tired of seeing your open hatred being directed upon others who are still learning. You can't become a great RPGer overnight, and it takes lots of practice. How will these people you mentioned ever get any better, if you continually embarrass them and put them down? Face facts, everyone here is human, which means we all have flaws. As the passage from the Bible reads...
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."


Lastly, props to Ruffie for having the courage to post this. Feedback from the community, even when negative, can always be put to good use. 'Night all!

[Asilynne]

First Id like to thank Ruffie for posting this, now that I think about it, it kinda makes me wonder why something like this doesnt become a sticky! I mean, in this TPM board, RPGers are practically like their own community, so it makes sense for a problem solving bureau to be set up for them! ^-^
Second, Id like to say that Id have to agree with the people on this topic that are actually making sense and that arent using this topic for personal gain/vendettas/ego inflations. Multiple people have said not to mention names so I ll just leave it up to the people that know me and the smart people to figure out who Im talking about ^-~
Now on to the things that this topic was made for:

I think that the main problem lies not just with bad plots, bad RPGers, bad whatever the heck else you wanna throw in. The main problem is that on this board, people dont seem to always realise that everyone who posts on it is ALSO afellow person. Everyone whose words you read, or whose screennames you look at, or whose avatars greet your eyes when you log on, theyre not just a collection of typewritten words floating around cyberspace! Theyre a PERSON sitting at their computer just like you! So when they make mistakes, or start an RPG with an insufficient plot, or spell things wrong, or GOD FORBID be new to the board, the Mods and the people who have been here awhile and who know what they are doing should be supportive and try and help them become better RPGers, rather than yell and scream at them and tell them they suck. Because that does nothing but breed bad feelings, which in turn creates dissention, and that kind of thing will pollute the whole board and make it so corrupted that people cant have fun on it without somebody bringing them down.

It wasnt that long ago (Sept 2002) that I myself was a 'newbie'. The first post I ever did was in Dragonball FS, and it was only a small paragraph, just enough to get me in the story. Now, the people in that RPG couldve easily ignored me, and said I sucked, but they didnt, they let me get my character involved with theirs and even became my friends. Then when I started my first RPG I half expected no one to join it but surprisingly people did, and even though most people who signed up havent ever posted in it, its still staying afloat and the 7 people that ARE in it seem to like it a lot ^-^ In short, its stupid to treat newbies bad just for the pure sake that theyre newbies, because everyone has to start somewhere.

Now I realise that, for each person theres probably someone out there that youll NEVER get along with no matter what you or anyone does, and thats natural. People are all different and not everyones going to agree with what everyone else says, not everyones going to like exactly what you like and not everyones going to think like you do. But that is no reason for anyone, let alone those who have a small bit of authority on the board, to be rude and downright mean to people who may make a mistake. Even if you dont like somebody, you dont have to be mean to them at every turn, at least make an attempt to be civil.

And finally:
As for the Mods, Ive been observing how things go for awhile now, and up until now I havent said much officially on what I think. As in the real world, not everyone who is appointed to a high position actually is qualified and deserves it. Anyone who needs an example of this needs only to look at Bill Clinton. While Im not even going to go into US politics, Im just going to say that it would be incredibly naiive to say that everyone who is in a position of power knows what they are doing. Some people just got into positions of power because they kissed up to the right people or they have friends in high places, not because they are the most qualified for that position. While a couple of our Mods are intellegent, just, fair, and are thus qualified, some abuse power and use it to lord over people and feel superior to someone. But the question is, who wants to listen to someone like that, who demands that people respect them when they do nothing to deserve it. Nobody should be expected to respect someone that doesnt deserve it just for the sole fact that they are a Mod. Ive seen people that were afraid of Mods and I wonder why, because in the end what matters is not who you were higher up than, its how you treated your fellow human beings.

Well Im done ranting for now. I know some people are going to shoot what I said down, and I dont care.
Some things just need to be said.

[Everoy]

Three words: Plotline, plotline, plotline! Example:

BAD~You crashed on a beach. It has lots of coconuts.

BETTER~While sailing a cruise liner, the motor exploded. The cruise liner crashed in to a vast island with undiscovered mysteries. There are many tall palm trees with giant coconuts.

And best would come from certain people, to name a couple, PoLIzumi-Chan and Dark Templar 8.

Three more words: Characters, characters, characters! Example:

Bad~Name: Bob
Age: 15
Gender: Male

Good~Name: Bobby Sanchez
Age:15 1/2
Gender: Male
Looks: brown hair, brown eyes, pale skin
Personality: Clumsy, friendly, determined

You get my drift?

[Ruffie]

"You like me! You really like me!!"

Sorry, I couldn't resist^^;;; Which ever Mod made this a sticky, you have my neverending gratitude. Thank you.

And alright, we've all now taken our whack at Mike. I think both him and DB get the point, so let's stop. Asilynne, I must congradulate you on standing up for the mods. That takes a tremedous amount of courage. Many people are divided on the issue of what they think of the mods, and I'm glad to see that you're not afraid to state your opinion about them even if other people would rather bash them. In all my time at this board, you are probably the first person to do that. And you're right, they're people. Not superhumans or anything, just people. (You're more than welcome to interpret that however you want.)

Yes! Yes! Yes! All the people who brought up creating characters gets a cookie and a diet Coke! *hands out cookies and diet Coke* Those are all VERY important points that *take note* we should all pay attention to . If you're gonna create a character, here are two things to consider: 1) Make them someone you can easily portray and 2) For God's sake, make them believeable! Make them flawed! Screw them to Hell like I did with one of my characters! I don't care, but give them a type of personality if possible, we could actually meet them on the street. Point in little details like they're agoraphobic(have a fear of large crowds) and have minor muscle spasms as a way of expressing their anxiety.

Now, I've noticed that everyone(including me) has said, "Well this is what's wrong with the board!" Okay, so what. I, like many people, see problems before the solutions.

The next question now is, what do WE as board members do to stop the retrograde?

[Bear]

Just a side note - The word "plotline" does not exist. It's either "plot" or "storyline." Sorry, but I'm a compulsive nitpicker when it comes to the English language, so if I correct you please don't be offended or take it as an insult.

Now, I strongly agree with Ruffie on her last point. We're all eager to tell what we think is wrong, now it's our turn to come up with solutions. I'll just throw some ideas out off the top of my head, and hopefully I'll get feedback and more alternatives.

Regarding Sign-up topics...

1) I think it's up to the Game Master to review all the forms of those who sign up, and perhaps be a little stricter in terms of what you accept and what you don't.

2) Game masters should decide a "make-or-break" date right off the bat. As in, decide on a day when sign ups will end, and you will either start the RPG there with the people you have, or cut it off and take a loss. I think the Game Master should stick to this date they pick VERY CLOSELY. RPGers will have more respect for a master who is organized and decisivie about his decisions.

3) I don't like this idea very much, but I think it might work in some cases. If a quota were instituted (meaning a minimum number of people needed to start the RPG), RPGs may run longer and have less chance of dying out. Unfortunately, as the case is with alot of RPGs, the audience isn't always widespread (ie - a Ranma 1/2 or single-anime related RPG). The interest pool is sometimes very small, but the people who DO like it are determined and can run a successful RPG with only the few of them. Then there's the opposite scenario, where you have a universally interesting topic and plot, and you get tons and tons of signups, but then nobody replies. In those two instances, the quote system would fail. But that's just what I think.

RPGs in general...

1) I think, above all else, that you shouldn't create an RPG unless you've done some preliminary work to organize it. Alot of RPGs tend to fail because they are made simply on a whim, late at night, or just not well thought out. You should definitely brainstorm, get ideas from others, research, or what have you. There's nothing more tragic than a great idea being lost because it was made into an RPG before being properly nurtured. To put it simply: before you create an RPG, take a bit to think about it. What's the interest level? Were any RPGs similar created before it? How strong is my plot, really? Do I really like this enough to make it into an RPG? Ask yourself those questions first. If you can answer them all with certainty, you're on your way to a successful RPG.

2) For the newer members, this may help you get better without causing much controversy or making enemies. Before you run out and join a bunch of RPGs, gauge your interest and knowledge on the subject. Don't join an RPG unless you are really familiar with the topic at hand. Don't tell yourself "oh I'll just pick it up as I go" because that never works. I know from experience, you can't work your way into an RPG. Either you're in from the start and with it, or you're out. This philosophy helped me develop my RP when I was a newbie, and I was able to do so without ticking anyone off.

3) It's important to think of an introduction beforehand, write it down, and then read back through it. Have someone else in your house read it too so you can have a second opinion. Critique it, and try to look at it from a reader's standpoint. Ask yourself "Is there any way I can make this more clear and understandable?" Because if there is any way to make it clearer, by all means do so. A plot can never be too simple or easy to follow. Ever.


Miscellaneous...

1) Playing RPGs while you aren't surfing these boards always helps. I know that 75% of my RPGing skills were developed outside TPM. I can make a few recommendations as to what games help the most:

Final Fantasy and other single player games - these are the most well known RPGs out there. Definitely fun to play, but you may find yourself ttrying to act like one of your favorite characters. That's all fine, but originality is much more highly regarded.

Small participation multiplayer RPGs - Games like Neverwinter Nights, Baldur's Gate, etc. are good for newer members of the board. They provide practice in designing and customizing a character, and may perhaps provide some basic ideas for future plots. Not the best choice for heavy skill development though, because you don't have as much control over how your character acts once you've created it.

Massive multiplayer games - These are the gold nuggets. Games like Nexus and Everquest, although they cost money to play, are the best out there for developing and enacting your RP abilities. Because you have complete control over what your character says and does, it provides incredible potential. Nexus is the game I play, and I can tell you honestly that it's improved my RPing ability tenfold since I began playing it. You pick what your character's personality will be, and you act it out every time you play. In fact, all the best parts of the game are dependent on your dedication to your RP. Doing this every day helped me on an exponential level. The drawback is that it's online only, and you have to pay per month to play. But on top of all that, it's FUN!


2) On a final note, just go out there and have fun. Never join an RPG you won't enjoy. I can't stress this point enough. Why do you think it's called a Role Playing GAME?


That's my input. Hope it helps everyone!

[Master Rudy]

Originally posted by Ruffie
If you're gonna create a character, here are two things to consider: 1) Make them someone you can easily portray and 2) For God's sake, make them believeable! Make them flawed! Screw them to Hell like I did with one of my characters!

I've got to agree with you there Ruffie. The one thing some people fail to remember is that no one is perfect. Look at my character Rudy Summers. I usually have him changed for each RPG so that he'll fit in with the other characters but one thing stays common with all the versions. If he isn't flawed then he has a very bad run of luck The DBVG version of him died near the start and once he was wished back to life he had no choice but to kill his mother. In DBFS the RPG started out with a flashback of his parents getting killed in front of him. In DotBM his major problem is being too trusting. In some cases it's gotten him some good allies and even helped some of the other characters in the process. However other times it's backfired. Where else are you going to see someone try to settle things peacefully and lay down his weapons when everyone else wants to kill him? How many guys are willing to let the guy who killed their father and tried to do the same to their sister live because they couldn't bring themself to hurt an unarmed person?

Not everyone is perfect. As you can see I either wind up royally screwing my characters or give them one big flaw. I think it makes your characters far more intresting and fun to play when you know they are not perfect and can't always win. The hero doesn't always win in real life. If anyone new is taking notes then try to keep what I said in mind. You guys might be a bit surprised with the results ^_~

[chirindenryuu]

I can speak from experience, although not on this board (I'm still poking around on here for an RPG I would be interested in joining. I'll find it yet) The number one reason RPGs die is poor management. Good management and an owner who is THERE is essential, especially at first. Once it's gotten started, a leader or leaders (if it's a big game) that direct the plot are essential, this is what managing the RPG plot really means.

I've heard people say that no, no, and RPg is not like a fanfic. I think that in many ways it actually is--the less messy the plot is, the better, and the plots follow many if not all of the rules that novels do, just they are written more sporadically.

[VirtualPlay]

Hmm…I have found another important thing that makes RPGs fall apart:

Not following the plot.

Sure, it sounds stupid. I mean, the plot is supposed to be the basis of the RPG. But it has happened. An RPG I just left, "The Legend of Zelda—Vengence" is a prime example of that. For the first few pages, the RPG was fine, following the plot of getting vengence on Link's death. Then suddenly, there's a whole page worth of posts on a battle between two of the characters. Then again, after a few posts, there's more than a page's worth of an all-character "Battle Royale". These battles were pointless and added nothing to the RPG except confusion.

Another point on that RPG is that after a certain point (Shadow first transforms), people started to want their character to have a "special form" like the GM's character. Staying within the plot, it would have made sense for two of the other characters to have one. But the first two characters to get one weren't part of the three that should've been able to have one. It completely screwed up the story and made for complete mayhem.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is:

STICK TO THE PLOT!

It allows for more popular RPGs and an increased level of faith in the Role Players who do stick to it.

[The_Missing_Link]

Thank you soooo much for posting this Ruffie. I can finally express my opinions on our current problems


Dedication
This has to be one of the biggest problems right now in this forum, according to me. I have seen/ been in countless RPGs and within a month, no one is posting anymore. Currently, I see a lot of "young" (or new) RPG players who join everything they see and it's basically crap because: 1) They'll start to forget about the RPG since they're involved in so many others, and 2) Their posts decline into 4 liners, which in my opinion is pure spam for an RPG. I have to admit though, I do have a dedication problem myself. The reason why? Because if I don't see a lot of people post after I post, I just don't post. Pure and simple. The people who aren't dedicated enough drag me away also. I really can't put all the blame on them since I have to make the choice to post but it's disgraceful nonetheless

The maker of an RPG
Sometimes this happens and sometimes it doesn't but there are the creators who make the RPG and barely post at all. As a follower in an RPG, I expect the creator to know what's going on and lead the way for us, because they have to plan things out before the RPG happens, without making it sound like a scripted play or something (doesn't know if that made any sense O_o). Not naming any names here, but I've been in a couple of RPGs by one specific person and he hardly ever posts and the rest of us are stuck figuring out what to do. This definitely ties in with dedication, probably my top priority when going with an RPG. Unforunately, I've only been in 1 that finished...actually prematurely finished due to a mod spazzing out. But like I said, I won't name any names ^_~


I have more, but those are the ones I really wanted to talk about. There's also the problem of 3-liner posts, but that always happens, although I wish it could be fixed

[Gladiator]

I do agree with Zeratul, one needs to stick to the plot. Also, if using a particular universe (Pokemon, Cardcaptors, etc), one must make sure that you know enough to get your way through.

I once participated in the famous Zoids RPG on TPM (I quit after it switched boards, I can't divide my attention span on too many things). I was only there for awhile, and to be honest, I knew nothing about the show except from Mew Master's story and stuff I picked up on in general. Some time ago, some (and by some I mean a lot) started picking up Organoids. Now, I never truly figured what Organoids were, but I knew they were rare, and by having so many characters picking them up, they lost a good deal of credibility. I think I mentioned something similar on that second Zoids RPG (not like the first) that appeared. The GM didn't want many (if any at all) Organoids in this RPG, and I posted my agreement, though I never joined. I never picked up an Organoid because of that.

Another point I'd like to make is based on a saying (I can't remember if I said it or if someone else says it)

"Do something right, and no one will notice, do something wrong and it will scr*w you for life."

This has applied to me especially. I have never been good with creating RPGs and I think history has something to do with it. You can have the most well-thought out RPG with the perfect plot with an original idea, but if you have been known to make bad RPGs in the past, no one decent will even give you the time of day.

Other times, you make an @$$ of yourself, and others (or yourself) will remember it. You lose credibility as a respected RPer, or you will remember this moment and it will haunt you for life (I got badmouthed by 2+ RPers for good reason once. They might not remember, but it still haunts me)

To be fair though, Ruffie, I didn't get a whack at either DB or Mike:








Just kidding, I won't bug 'em

[Drusilla]

Originally posted by Gladiator

To be fair though, Ruffie, I didn't get a whack at either DB or Mike:








Just kidding, I won't bug 'em

Dangerous ground, my friend... very dangerous... Playing with fire isn't something I'd suggest, especially THAT fire...
*runz*

[Bear]

Originally posted by Vampiric DrusillaTPM
Dangerous ground, my friend... very dangerous... Playing with fire isn't something I'd suggest, especially THAT fire...
*runz*

I think Mike is perfectly capable of defending himself.

Just because you two are "boyfriend and girlfriend" doesn't mean you have to go out of your way to make it known.

This is supposed to be a topic for giving ideas on problems with TPM and solutions to those problems, not bashing each other. Let's try not to spam please.

[Gladiator]

It was just a joke. I didn't mean anything by it. (Although I admit that I sometimes insult or talk down to people unintentionally) I have nothing against Mike, I think he's a great Moderator. Likewise, DB isn't bad either. It was just a gag (My sense of humor is different). If I offended you, I'm sorry, it was an accident. Okay? I especially didn't mean to offend Mike, again, I think you are a great Mod.

So long as I'm posting another time, I might as well add more to this discussion.

Here is a minor thing that plagues some RPGs, and it comes from the statement that you can sometimes have too much of a good thing. Sometimes you can have too many people sign up for an RPG, and this can break up the fluidity of the RPG. Sometimes those who try to interact don't usually get the interaction they were intending or hardly are interacted with at all despite trying.

I myself often find it hard to post and understand what is going on between posts because I don't get home until 4:00 PM and I don't look on the messageboards in the morning so often several people get to post in between mine, and it is VERY hard to read them all (so many words...getting disoriented...@_@)

[Ruffie]

Cool beans, guys! (Cool beans? Where did that come from? Probably too much time around Lt. Lorang)

I think we've got this thing down pretty well. I now decree that this topic is open for help as well as continuing any discussion on RPGs. If anyone has any questions whatsoever regarding RPing, here is a good place to go. I'd like a "Miss Manners"(or "Mr. Manners") of unwritten RPG ettiquette to post here if possible. Give me some time and I'm going to organize a little post for creating characters on a whim. If anyone wants to start a workshop or something, or if any newbies just want to come over and announce the existence of their RPG, please do so.

[Bear]

I think my post on page 2 about the possible solutions summed it up pretty well. If you want, I can work on an FAQ for the RPG dos and donts.

If anyone has any questions or concerns regarding RPGing or the like, feel free to PM me and I'll get back to ya.

[RaZoR LeAf]

In fanfic they have topics where people post with their advice over writing in general, character developments, descriptive additons and so forth. A topic like that would possibley be a big help. People can reply with advice, how they do things, thigs that they'd like to see and explained in their own way so other people can pick up on them. It would help the more experienced RPers just as much as the unexperienced.

[Master Rudy]

Originally posted by RaZoR LeAf
In fanfic they have topics where people post with their advice over writing in general, character developments, descriptive additons and so forth. A topic like that would possibley be a big help. People can reply with advice, how they do things, thigs that they'd like to see and explained in their own way so other people can pick up on them. It would help the more experienced RPers just as much as the unexperienced.

It seems like RL has a great idea here. I also think a topic like that would be a good addition to the RPG forum. What do you guys think?

[Bulbasaur4]

Well, that was actually what I had planned to be in the RPG News. That way we could get attention to good, promising RPGs and show quality RPGs as well for the "RPG of the Week." A way we could get help for people who have questions, is to PM the mods a question and then that question will go into the RPG News, and it will be answered. Other RPers can PM their own opinions to the News as well, and it can be posted sort of as a reference guide.
We shouldn't have too many sticky topics too- so keep in mind that if we put one more up, we have to take one more down.

[Ruffie]

Thanks everyone. With The RPG News up and running, I think this topic has accomplished its purpose. Change won't come immediately of course, but at least I know people are working toward it. Thanks again. B4, take this topic away. We did it8)