Shadow the Hedgehog [Archive] - The PokeMasters Forums

Gravy

9th March 2005, 09:46 AM

Wow...when I first heard about this, I just thought it was someone's idea of a bad joke,
This whole Shadow with a gun stuff is just.... crap. And this is crap to the X-treme, naturally. I'm assuming its all intended to LOOK cool etc, but...it just doesn't. At all.
Of course, this game is going to sell by the freakin' bucket loads once its released. Every kid out there is going to want to play a game where you take the role of an angsty skating Hedgehog with a gun.
Belch, puke, throw up.

On the bright side, if you can call it that, this is a decent opportunity to developing a good plot-line. Shadow's past and relations with others have always been really interesting IMO. And hopefully this will help piece together the storylines we already have, concerning that whole 'Imma robot' Heroes trash and the events of SA2 and Battle. Would be cool to see how the plot-line of SA2 and the 'plot-line' of Heroes would meld together...hopefully the result won't be in jumbled-mess form.

Bah, sucks that Sonic games are loosing it. Although, at least it isn't something like a freakin' Archie comics based game....teh shudder. And I can still like the characters, so theres a plus I suppose.

The Muffin Man

9th March 2005, 12:57 PM

Why does Shadow need a gun? He's a Sonic clone, and Sonic has gone decades without a weapon.

God, I can see it now. They're gonna toss in Shadow hijacking cars and killing hookers.

Is it just me, or are Capcom and Sega trying to kill their biggest franchises by bastardizing them to the Nth degree? Sonic Adventures/Heroes, THIS, and for Capcom Megaman Battle Network and Zero. And X7*shudder* Worst main series game since Megaman 8

PNT510

9th March 2005, 01:29 PM

Megaman Battle Network is the best Megaman game in the past 5 years.

Legends-Kuja

9th March 2005, 04:46 PM

Wait, does this mean I'm mocking you all if I'm not crying?

Personally, I HATE THE DAMN GUN, but the gameplay looks hella cool. The story, however, is the true deciding factor of this game.

The Muffin Man

9th March 2005, 05:02 PM

Megaman Battle Network is the best Megaman game in the past 5 years.

Megaman X8.

And this is if we don't include Anniversary Collection. And I doubt we do, as no sane person would ever claim Battle Network was better than Megaman 3.

PNT510

9th March 2005, 05:19 PM

I don't get all the love for X8, everyone talks about how it's so much better than X7, but I think both of them were boring and lacked anything that new or interesting. And while I don't think Battle Network is better than Megaman 3 it's far Better than Mega Man Zero, X7 and X8

Sceptile_Master

9th March 2005, 05:20 PM

Another sonic game. Yay. i love sonic. Let's just hope it wasn't a bit crap like sonic heroes. And that it has chao in it. If it doesn't I might go mad at sega. Bring back the chao I say.

fat man with a monkey

9th March 2005, 05:26 PM

I say bring back 2-d sidescrollers that can barely process the 200+ rings spewing forth from your body. I honestly haven't been a fan of any 3D sonic game other than the one for sega saturn (I just had a brain fart, and can't remember the name)

Sceptile_Master

9th March 2005, 05:37 PM

PNT510

9th March 2005, 05:56 PM

It's easy to not be obsessed with Sonic Adventure 2, the game simple wasn't that good.

Legends-Kuja

9th March 2005, 06:41 PM

Wow, I'd thought Pokemasters would be safe from the 2-D, s3&K loving fanboys, but I guess I was dead wrong.

Not to say this game's flawless, but let's reserve judgment for E3 footage/gameplay demo.

Misty

9th March 2005, 06:44 PM

I agree, I really dislike when people judge a game prematurely.

fat man with a monkey

9th March 2005, 06:53 PM

Hmmm, don't recall this fanboy judging it... I just recall saying I haven't like a 3d sonic game since 3d blast. Of course, I don't like sonic 2, and sonic and knuckles wasn't the best ever.

The Muffin Man

9th March 2005, 07:57 PM

How can you not be completely obseesed with sonic adventure 2 battle. The chao raising factor is too irresistable. Especially when you have an Amy chao like me. My prized possession. To bad it has mediocre grades.

The Chao raising was a terrible addition and nothing more than Segas cheap cash-in on the "Catch and raise" fad that Pokemon, Neopets, Digimon, etc have all tried. Of those 3, guess which one actually succeeded in not sucking ass.

To be fair, I'm judging this on three things:

The last good 3D Sonic game was 3D blast...that's not really a high point.
Shadow has a GUN.
They're ditching Sonic for "Shadow the emo/angsty pop-culture fad" hedgehog. We don't need a "dark anti-hero" to replace good ol' Sonic.
He has a freaking GUN.

I know I said 3 and that's 4. But here's a fifth.
WHY DOES HE HAVE A GODDAMN GUN!?

MetalScyther

9th March 2005, 08:26 PM

Sonic and Knuckles is my favorite sonic game of all. Followed by the 3, 2, and 1. I personally find SA fun. SA2 is okay, but not as good as SA in my opinion.

I don't want another 3D sonic game, because the 3D sonic games that are out pale in comparison to other action/adventure games. Bring back 2D :(

fat man with a monkey

9th March 2005, 08:43 PM

I would actually like to see another 2D sonic game made in the same vein as sonic 3... throw in some 3D bonus levels, with 2D main levels. Sonic 3 was my favorite, followed by 1, with 2 in dead last.

Chrono Storm

9th March 2005, 08:47 PM

Oh, c'mon, it's not that bad, is it? Listen, this is the perfect oppurtunity to bring back Nack the Weasle! C'mon, you all want to see Nack in updated graphics, don't you? I agree about the gun being unnesecary and kind of OOC, but it looks like it'll be fun. 'Sides, he might stay dead in this one.

PNT510

9th March 2005, 09:15 PM

What the hell is Nack the Weasle? And yes the gun looks OOC, but no, it doesn't look like it will be fun, it looks like it will be crap. If I wanted guns in my platformers I'd play Ratchet and Clank.

Razola

10th March 2005, 02:11 AM

It's pretty easy to judge if you base it on the past 3D Sonic games. They have all been mediocre at best, and this one is now sinking to to lowest common denominator.

Maybe if it looked liked Sega had put some damn effort into it. That gun looks totally out of place...it's not textured and has, what, 10 polygons? Not mention they made no effort to fit it in with the Sonic atomsphere. And the engine remains static, Sega just tweaks this ancient engine that was beautiful...hmm...back in 1999 when the Dreamcast came out.

As for the 2D fanboy comment, NONE of the 3D games have EVER been close to the enjoyment of sonic 1, 2, 3, S&K, Sonic CD, shit even most of the Game Gear and Gameboy Advance titles. I'm not going as far as to say Sonic only works in 2D, but it does seem true that Sonic Team only does their best work in that realm.

I need to buy Sonic CD.

Sceptile_Master

10th March 2005, 02:13 PM

The Chao raising was a terrible addition and nothing more than Segas cheap cash-in on the "Catch and raise" fad that Pokemon, Neopets, Digimon, etc have all tried. Of those 3, guess which one actually succeeded in not sucking ass.

To be fair, I'm judging this on three things:

The last good 3D Sonic game was 3D blast...that's not really a high point.
Shadow has a GUN.
They're ditching Sonic for "Shadow the emo/angsty pop-culture fad" hedgehog. We don't need a "dark anti-hero" to replace good ol' Sonic.
He has a freaking GUN.

I know I said 3 and that's 4. But here's a fifth.
WHY DOES HE HAVE A GODDAMN GUN!?

I'm not talking about the upcoming game. I must have missed the link and I am annoyed that he has a gun but CHAO KICK ASS. It's a plain fact. They really, really kick ass. There so cool. And SA2b was good as a game anyways. The 180 emblems was a nice thing to keep you going.

Razola

10th March 2005, 02:16 PM

Chaos were only cool because it was better than playing the main game.

The Muffin Man

10th March 2005, 02:20 PM

Chaos were only cool because it was better than playing the main game.

Ouch.

Razola

10th March 2005, 02:34 PM

Ouch.
Sonic and Shadow's levels were entertaining, but it's true that the two comprised maybe 1/6 of the game. Robotnik and Tails were mildly amusing at first, but then got boring or annoying when they introduced platforming bits.

Knuckles and Rouge sucked. Sucked, sucked, sucked. You run around in an area looking for three gems. Note that there is more than that, but only three are in the level each time you do it, so when you die it might mean the ones you had are no longer where they use to be. Worst of was Rouge's TIMED level, where you had X minutes to do it in.

But it can't beat Knuckles, which was Sega's attempt to clue you in "Hey, we hate this franchise now, and you should too." It wasn't enough having to play a retarded, masochistic version of Mario, but they always blare RAP of all things in the background.

Sonic in 3D has shitty music. Stuff that sounds like Sega got it from the trash cans of an abandoned 80s recording studio. It sucks, no doubt. But the rap songs for Knuckles takes could get Sega arrested for audio homocide. I can tolerate good rap, perhaps even like it to a degree. But this stuff is beyond crappy. It will make rap fans cry and the haters send anthrax in their fan letters to Sonic Team. It was pure hell.

No, I'm not a big fan of Sonic Adventure 2.

Heald

10th March 2005, 02:36 PM

Razola

10th March 2005, 02:46 PM

The only decent thing to come from the Sonic franchise in the last ten years or so is that compilation they have just released of all the old games.

I never really understood anything about Sonic since the downfall of the Mega Drive (Genesis to you yanks). This is what I'm told happens:

Sonic moves from Planet Mobius to Planet Earth for no apparent reason.

Dr Robotnik has a son called Dr Eggman, even though Dr Robotnik was the only human on Planet Mobius.

Sonic has an evil red twin who sucks.

The 'animé' is shit. Humans suck.

That's it.
1) Sonic never left Mobius, they just added in other, realistic looking humans to the game to make everything feel out of place. If humans were more exagerrated like 'botnik, it would have been a better move. Seeing Tails talk to the President (of what they never say) left me dumbfounded.

2) Anime fanboys love it when we use the proper names for their beloved characters, so Sega decided to ride this wave by having Robotnik go by his Japanese name "Eggman". It backfired, not just because people don't like having their childhood characters spit upon, but Eggman is also a retarded name. Technically, he is still "Dr. Robotnik", but his aka is "Eggman".

3) I like Shadow's character design, and "Chaos Control" seemed like a cool power. But as the game bore on, Shadow become less engimatic and badass, and more and more of a whiny bitch. Why can't we just have a character that's good ol' fashioned evil?

EDIT: Mega Drive? Is english english that much different from american english that they have to translate your products into something so lame?

Heald

10th March 2005, 02:52 PM

1) Sonic never left Mobius, they just added in other, realistic looking humans to the game to make everything feel out of place. If humans were more exagerrated like 'botnik, it would have been a better move. Seeing Tails talk to the President (of what they never say) left me dumbfounded.Wow, let's throw continuity out the window for the sake of stupid bullshit.
2) Anime fanboys love it when we use the proper names for their beloved characters, so Sega decided to ride this wave by having Robotnik go by his Japanese name "Eggman". It backfired, not just because people don't like having their childhood characters spit upon, but Eggman is also a retarded name. Technically, he is still "Dr. Robotnik", but his aka is "Eggman".Anime fanboys suck.
3) I like Shadow's character design, and "Chaos Control" seemed like a cool power. But as the game bore on, Shadow become less engimatic and badass, and more and more of a whiny bitch. Why can't we just have a character that's good ol' fashioned evil?He's Sonic but red. Can't we just have a game where Sonic jumps on stuff?
Mega Drive? Is english english that much different from american english that they have to translate your products into something so lame?Actually I think it was to do with the religious nutjobs bitching about 'Genesis' being used. Hey, this is the country that changed the name of 'Starfox' to 'Starwing' just because fox hunting is such a touchy issue (the same thing happened to 'Starfox 64', it got changed to 'Lylat Wars').

andyizcool

10th March 2005, 03:04 PM

Shadow is a black version of Sonic not red although he has some red on his spikes. I saw the trailer and this game just looks like a crappy platformer going round with just Shadow and a gun. Maybe he'll be Super Shadow on the final boss because that always happens on all these new Sonic games even though Sonic doesn't look like he's in it. They really only invented Chaos Control so the Emeralds could do more than just power up things when you got all seven.

Sonic Adventure 2 Spoiler Didn't Shadow die at the end? And a robot of Shadow was used in Sonic Heroes.

Gravy

10th March 2005, 04:46 PM

even most of the Game Gear and Gameboy Advance titles.
Eh, I agree that the 3D games have been rather sub-par, but I wouldn't go as far as saying the old Game Gear/ Master system stuff was more enjoyable. The only decent Game Gear Sonic games were Sonic 1 and Tails' Adventure. Sonic Drift was barely ok, and the rest sucked shit.

In defence of Sonic Adventure, it had variety and the exploration element was pretty cool. It was nice to play as different characters in different situations and see how all their stories melded together. Not including Big the Cat of course, whose addition to the game was just baffling.

On the subject of Shadow, I don't think he was a bad character personally. The only bad thing concerning Shadow is the fact they killed his character by bringing him back to life or making him a robot or whatever.

The Muffin Man

10th March 2005, 09:25 PM

Anime fanboys suck.

You think that's bad? I've actually seen people HONESTLY call them Soniku and Tairisu...I WISH I was kidding. Characters nobody knew was japanese until fanboyism.

Legends-Kuja

10th March 2005, 09:35 PM

Worst of was Rouge's TIMED level, where you had X minutes to do it in.

But it can't beat Knuckles, which was Sega's attempt to clue you in "Hey, we hate this franchise now, and you should too." It wasn't enough having to play a retarded, masochistic version of Mario, but they always blare RAP of all things in the background.

Sonic in 3D has shitty music. Stuff that sounds like Sega got it from the trash cans of an abandoned 80s recording studio. It sucks, no doubt. But the rap songs for Knuckles takes could get Sega arrested for audio homocide. I can tolerate good rap, perhaps even like it to a degree. But this stuff is beyond crappy. It will make rap fans cry and the haters send anthrax in their fan letters to Sonic Team. It was pure hell.

No, I'm not a big fan of Sonic Adventure 2.

No, no DAMMIT NO. THIS IS GODDAMN WAR NOW.

Sonic Adventure 2 had THE BEST music of any 3-D Sonic game (points and laughs at Heroes and S3&K, just because the latter pisses him off). Supporting me was brilliant. Sonic's level music ROCKED. Rogue's Security vault just rocked. The time limit STOPPED IT FROM SUCKING, unlike the later sophorific levels--you had reason to rush, not to mention the Emeralds weren't BURIED. Sonic Adventure 2 wasn't a perfect game, but I loved the super-tense atmosphere, and the music friggin ruled.

The only decent thing to come from the Sonic franchise in the last ten years or so is that compilation they have just released of all the old games.

I never really understood anything about Sonic since the downfall of the Mega Drive (Genesis to you yanks). This is what I'm told happens:

Sonic moves from Planet Mobius to Planet Earth for no apparent reason.

Dr Robotnik has a son called Dr Eggman, even though Dr Robotnik was the only human on Planet Mobius.

Sonic has an evil red twin who sucks.

The 'animé' is shit. Humans suck.

That's it.

Awww... MAN! Are you like, born in the 80's? As much as you deny it, that is PERFECT 2-D fanboyism right there. To BETTER explain stupid assumptions:

1. Sonic never WAS on Mobius. That's called "Let's slap shit together because Americans don't need background story" in the 90's. Oh, and you ignore Sonic Advance 3. Bad move.

2. Dr. Eggman is merely Robotnik's international name. And Eggman is easier on the tongue. Miss using Robuttnik, though.

3. Shadow? You mean you made the mistake of taking Shadow SERIOUSLY?

4. Humans sucking, that's a bit obvious. Below the belt, but very obvious. And anime is merely Japanese going full circle (they mimicked American cartoons like Betty Boop and Bambi). So saying anime sucks means you hate cartoons period. Oh well, no big loss.

OH NOES! The Sonic 3 and Knuckles fanboys are attacking! They're coming out of the woodwork! They say Sonic Heroes sucked! They hated every Sonic game after Adventure! They claim Sega killed thier mothers and desecrate her grave every time a Sonic game is made that's not S3&K! RUN FOR THE HILLS!

No seriously, that's what it feels like right now. It's making me mad. VERY.

The Muffin Man

10th March 2005, 10:05 PM

No, no DAMMIT NO. THIS IS GODDAMN WAR NOW.

Sonic Adventure 2 had THE BEST music of any 3-D Sonic game (points and laughs at Heroes and S3&K, just because the latter pisses him off). Supporting me was brilliant. Sonic's level music ROCKED. Rogue's Security vault just rocked. The time limit STOPPED IT FROM SUCKING, unlike the later sophorific levels--you had reason to rush, not to mention the Emeralds weren't BURIED. Sonic Adventure 2 wasn't a perfect game, but I loved the super-tense atmosphere, and the music friggin ruled.
Wait, you LIKE crappy generic pop-rock and rap? Oh, you bashed Sonic and Knuckles. I see. You've never played any other Sonic games before Adventure. Because otherwise you wouldn't bash S+K. Ever. It's like insulting Mario 3.

Awww... MAN! Are you like, born in the 80's? As much as you deny it, that is PERFECT 2-D fanboyism right there. To BETTER explain stupid assumptions:

This'll be good...Yes, I WAS born in the 80s. 1985. Hence the fact I've been playing Sonic MUCH longer than you. So yeah, you're pretty much fighting an uphill battle.

1. Sonic never WAS on Mobius. That's called "Let's slap shit together because Americans don't need background story" in the 90's. Oh, and you ignore Sonic Advance 3. Bad move.
Sonic was never on Mobius? Wait, what?

2. Dr. Eggman is merely Robotnik's international name. And Eggman is easier on the tongue. Miss using Robuttnik, though.
Robotnik sounds better. Badnik, No-Goodnik. Now, Robotnik. Eggman sounds retarded.

3. Shadow? You mean you made the mistake of taking Shadow SERIOUSLY?

Being a serious character, yeah.

4. Humans sucking, that's a bit obvious. Below the belt, but very obvious. And anime is merely Japanese going full circle (they mimicked American cartoons like Betty Boop and Bambi). So saying anime sucks means you hate cartoons period. Oh well, no big loss.
I love how you're making shit up. It's really funny.

No seriously, that's what it feels like right now. It's making me mad. VERY.
I don't see why. I mean, it's not like we're saying your favorite was crappy before they added pop-rock, generic rap, and angst by the boatloads.

Did you PLAY Sonic 1, 2, 3, S+K, Spinball, and 3D Blast? Of those games, 3D Blast is the worst, and it was still an alright game, all things considered. You DO understand there were games before Adventure? The most recent GOOD Sonic game is Advance 1. 2 and 3 I have yet to play, but they are the only Sonic series still true to the original(You know, superspeed. NOT DIGGING AND MECHS.)

Razola

10th March 2005, 11:48 PM

No, no DAMMIT NO. THIS IS GODDAMN WAR NOW.
It's just a game, but whatever you what.

Sonic Adventure 2 had THE BEST music of any 3-D Sonic game (points and laughs at Heroes and S3&K, just because the latter pisses him off).
So SA2 was the best of the worst? Cream of the crap is still crap. And I think Sonic 1 & 2 had among the best music in the series, followed by 3 and then S&K.

Supporting me was brilliant. Sonic's level music ROCKED. Rogue's Security vault just rocked. The time limit STOPPED IT FROM SUCKING, unlike the later sophorific levels--you had reason to rush, not to mention the Emeralds weren't BURIED. Sonic Adventure 2 wasn't a perfect game, but I loved the super-tense atmosphere, and the music friggin ruled.
Super tense? Most the time I died from my camera bullshitting on me. If I wanted to backtrack even a few feet for an item or some rings, the camera rebeled against such radical thoughts as "go the other way." The camera buttons were merely for show. And when you are EXPLORING, and thus need good control and how you see things, it sucks complete and utter ass. Oh I'm sorry, I guess a shitty camera makes it super-kaduper-challenging, right?

Awww... MAN! Are you like, born in the 80's?
You must have been born in the mid-90s. You probably haven't even touched a Genesis.

As much as you deny it, that is PERFECT 2-D fanboyism right there. To BETTER explain stupid assumptions:
Mario 64 is my favorite Mario game. Mario 3 is brilliance, but I just liked 64 better. So no, it's not fanboyism, I just don't like sub-par video games.

1. Sonic never WAS on Mobius. That's called "Let's slap shit together because Americans don't need background story" in the 90's. Oh, and you ignore Sonic Advance 3. Bad move.
I really don't give a shit were he's at, but throwing a giant hedgehog in with normal humans looks completely out of place and against the game's established atmosphere. I'm not against changes, but at least make good changes.

Not as good as the first 2 (Sega needs a bit more space between them), I'd still play Advance Three instead of SA2 again. I didn't play Heroes enough to make an accurate assumption, but the demo told me that was a good call.

2. Dr. Eggman is merely Robotnik's international name. And Eggman is easier on the tongue. Miss using Robuttnik, though.

3. Shadow? You mean you made the mistake of taking Shadow SERIOUSLY?
I get it. You want me to think Sega had him as some sort of joke. If that were the case, SA2 is the funniest game on the planet.

4. Humans sucking, that's a bit obvious. Below the belt, but very obvious. And anime is merely Japanese going full circle (they mimicked American cartoons like Betty Boop and Bambi). So saying anime sucks means you hate cartoons period. Oh well, no big loss.
Generalizations for the win.

No seriously, that's what it feels like right now. It's making me mad. VERY.[/QUOTE]
I honestly think Sonic can work in 3D, the problem is Sega dilutes it to hell and back with other various types of gameplay styles. Half-assed gameplay styles, mind you. When I play Sonic, I want to go fast. Really fast. I don't want to shoot things, dig for things, or raise little things. The Sonic stage in SA2 that was 90% rails was pretty damn fun, Sega needs to base a game entirely around the Sonic levels of the past games. Tighten up the level design with the multiple pathways of the old Genesis games, and it works.

People can say all they want about pressing forward the whole time: it's true. Sonic is all about simple, fast fun.

Legends-Kuja

11th March 2005, 05:20 AM

Wait, you LIKE crappy generic pop-rock and rap? Oh, you bashed Sonic and Knuckles. I see. You've never played any other Sonic games before Adventure. Because otherwise you wouldn't bash S+K. Ever. It's like insulting Mario 3.

This is FALSE. I played the Genesis Sonic games. I PLAYED S3&K and LOVED IT. What went wrong? The fanboys bashing all the new Sonic games flock to this one, the supposed pinnacle of Sonic gaming. This means that other Sonic games, even the ones in that generation, are ignored for the sake of S3&K.

Oh, and before you assume I'm some 13 year old mid 90's punk, I'm 18. And My favorite Sonic game?

Sonic CD

This'll be good...Yes, I WAS born in the 80s. 1985. Hence the fact I've been playing Sonic MUCH longer than you. So yeah, you're pretty much fighting an uphill battle.

See above.

Sonic was never on Mobius? Wait, what?

This is true. Go see Sonic Cult and other composed sites. American exes made it up when SOnic first premired. SA was trying to put Sonic in one damn universe.

Robotnik sounds better. Badnik, No-Goodnik. Now, Robotnik. Eggman sounds retarded.

Being a serious character, yeah.
I love how you're making shit up. It's really funny.

As I said, I miss calling him 'buttnik. And no I'm not pulling shit out of my ass.

I don't see why. I mean, it's not like we're saying your favorite was crappy before they added pop-rock, generic rap, and angst by the boatloads.

...?

Did you PLAY Sonic 1, 2, 3, S+K, Spinball, and 3D Blast? Of those games, 3D Blast is the worst, and it was still an alright game, all things considered. You DO understand there were games before Adventure? The most recent GOOD Sonic game is Advance 1. 2 and 3 I have yet to play, but they are the only Sonic series still true to the original(You know, superspeed. NOT DIGGING AND MECHS.)

YES I SURE DAMN DID, AND I LOVED THEM ALL. But my point is that even THOSE games are overshadowed by 3&K. WHY?! 3&K was SLOW (granted, 3D Blast was WAAAAAAAAAY SLLLLLOOOOOOWWWERRR..). CD was faster, as was 2 and 1.

Heald

11th March 2005, 10:19 AM

Whatever I said, I was told by some guy who had played Sonic Adventure. For some reason he said Eggman was Robotnik's son...go figure.

Legends-Kuja: The whole backstory of Sonic is set on Mobius. Sonic the Hedgehog was just a game about a blue hedgehog jumping on shit, but a whole culture developed behind it. Sega has actually endorsed the whole 'Sonic was turned blue by an explosion', otherwise why the hell did they let stuff like Sonic the Comic or Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon happen unless it wasn't set on Mobius?

Robotnik is his English name. You can't just change a name for the sake of fanboys. That's why you get morons going around saying 'LET'S USE THE ORIGINAL NAMES!' and sticking stupid crap in their sigs saying 'WATCH ENGLISH BEAST WARS AND JAPANESE POKÉMON LOL I MASTURBATE'. Just because the Japanese are retarded at making up names doesn't mean we have to suffer.

And so what if I am a 2D fanboy? The 2D games were actually good. The 3D games are shit. And my favourite games were Sonic 1 & 2. Seriously. 3 had some really bad level design and only like 6 levels. Sonic and Knuckles was just boring and easy. No challenge whatsoever. Both put stupid puzzles in place of speed. Sonic 1 & 2 ruled.

Concerning Shadow: I don't know who or what the hell he is, so I don't really take him seriously at all. I just think they should stop introducing stupid sidekicks.
Humans sucking, that's a bit obvious. Below the belt, but very obvious. And anime is merely Japanese going full circle (they mimicked American cartoons like Betty Boop and Bambi). So saying anime sucks means you hate cartoons period. Oh well, no big loss.Well, you see, this is an inductive statement, for example, specific evidence to come to a general conclusion:

I hate the Sonic anime
The Sonic anime is a cartoon
There I hate all cartoons

Guess who wins the assclown award for complete asstardedness?

Anyway, I'm bored now. So go fist yourself.

Lezta

11th March 2005, 10:48 AM

The mobius story slapped together? Do you have any idea how complex the ROCC plot was? (And I mean outside of any comics etc. I do however include a series of books which stuck closer to the Sonic plotline than anything I've ever seen. I do, of course, talk about a series of books written by Martin Adams. Especially 'Sonic in the Fourth Dimension', which explains the whole backstory in rather lovely detail. All the info was taken from official backstory though and just turned into story form though. It even explained the bloody TVs!)

I'm a 2d fanboy. I love Sonic 2 best. Do I win a prize?

I thought the raps were funny though. So terrible I just had to laugh.

I want to say more but meh, it's all been said.

EDIT: Heald and Raz are my heroes now.

fat man with a monkey

11th March 2005, 10:56 AM

The Muffin Man

11th March 2005, 11:37 AM

Actually, mike and heald, l-k is somewhat right. Tezuka, the creator of astro boy, what is considered the first anime, drew very heavily on the style of walt disney, because he liked the style. And, on another note
http://img.penny-arcade.com/2005/20050311l.jpg
I didn't [IMG] it due to semi-gratuitous use of the word ****, but it's definitely on-topic.

No, his point was that if anime fanboys piss us off, we hate anime and thus cartoons.

I don't hate anime. I am with Heald in saying that "ZOMG BEAST WARS ENGLISH POKEMON JAPANESE LOLZ ITS" LIZARDON NOT CHARIZARD" is retarded. I hate anime fanboys/otakus. Not anime. Not cartoons. He was not right in the least aside from the inspiration.

Legends-Kuja

11th March 2005, 05:23 PM

Legends-Kuja: The whole backstory of Sonic is set on Mobius. Sonic the Hedgehog was just a game about a blue hedgehog jumping on shit, but a whole culture developed behind it. Sega has actually endorsed the whole 'Sonic was turned blue by an explosion', otherwise why the hell did they let stuff like Sonic the Comic or Sonic the Hedgehog cartoon happen unless it wasn't set on Mobius?

Robotnik is his English name. You can't just change a name for the sake of fanboys. That's why you get morons going around saying 'LET'S USE THE ORIGINAL NAMES!' and sticking stupid crap in their sigs saying 'WATCH ENGLISH BEAST WARS AND JAPANESE POKÉMON LOL I MASTURBATE'. Just because the Japanese are retarded at making up names doesn't mean we have to suffer.

And so what if I am a 2D fanboy? The 2D games were actually good. The 3D games are shit. And my favourite games were Sonic 1 & 2. Seriously. 3 had some really bad level design and only like 6 levels. Sonic and Knuckles was just boring and easy. No challenge whatsoever. Both put stupid puzzles in place of speed. Sonic 1 & 2 ruled.

Concerning Shadow: I don't know who or what the hell he is, so I don't really take him seriously at all. I just think they should stop introducing stupid sidekicks.Well, you see, this is an inductive statement, for example, specific evidence to come to a general conclusion:

I hate the Sonic anime
The Sonic anime is a cartoon
There I hate all cartoons

Guess who wins the assclown award for complete asstardedness?

Anyway, I'm bored now. So go fist yourself.

The whole mobius thing was created because THE AMERICANS MADE THAT STORY. The Japanese made THIER own, and from Sonic Adventure on, to appease the anime fanboys, they merged the Universes. In truth, before Sonic adventure, there was no story.

A 2-D fanboy who hates 3&K is actually a RELIEF. That's why I pitched a fit in the first place: 3&K is NOT THE ONLY 2D SONIC GAME. I also don't think Sonic Team hit a downward slump... until this game (Shadow)

Stupid sidekicks... Get rid of Cream first. Shadow was actually cool at one point. Cream NEVER was.

And sorry for the idiocy, but I made that blanket statement to prompt you to defending yourself so I could see where you actually stood on anime (you sounded like you hated Anime rather than the fanboys)

And fisting myself is anatomically impossible, not to mention not my cup of tea. :P

The Muffin Man

11th March 2005, 06:03 PM

The whole mobius thing was created because THE AMERICANS MADE THAT STORY. The Japanese made THIER own, and from Sonic Adventure on, to appease the anime fanboys, they merged the Universes. In truth, before Sonic adventure, there was no story.
Do you have any proof of this? Even the fanboys who refuse to pronounce the L in Tails say they're from Mobius.

And actually, there was a story. Robotnik is kidnapping the animals and turning them into robots. That's been consistant with every Sonic game. Robotnik has turned the animals into robots.

A 2-D fanboy who hates 3&K is actually a RELIEF. That's why I pitched a fit in the first place: 3&K is NOT THE ONLY 2D SONIC GAME. I also don't think Sonic Team hit a downward slump... until this game (Shadow)
It's not, But 3&K is the epitome of what Sonic should be.

Stupid sidekicks... Get rid of Cream first. Shadow was actually cool at one point. Cream NEVER was.
Shadow was never meant to be a sidekick.

And sorry for the idiocy, but I made that blanket statement to prompt you to defending yourself so I could see where you actually stood on anime (you sounded like you hated Anime rather than the fanboys)

And fisting myself is anatomically impossible, not to mention not my cup of tea. :P
Actually it would be possible if you had a really small fist or...nevermind.

Lezta

11th March 2005, 06:27 PM

... Kuja, you haven't seen the Japanese manuals with their backstory, have you?

Didn't think so.

Legends-Kuja

11th March 2005, 07:47 PM

Robotnik turned the animals into robots... okay, that WAS story, but I believe that's the only thing that went on in the 16-bit era.

I picked that up from Sonic Cult. If and once they get back up, I'll show you the article that proves my point.

TV 4 Me

12th March 2005, 04:06 PM

"I am the Walrus." Quoth the song: "I am the eggman, they are the eggmen; I am the walrus, goo goo g'joob." Another more recent (and obvious) inspiration is the nameless mechanic from Studio Ghibli's 1986 animated classic, Tenkuu no Shiro Laputa.
Just to add to the 'Eggman's name is retarded' thing and show that its basically more of a pun name if anything, which isn't as retarded as just naming the guy after his shape~

I've been a Sonic fan since the first Sonic game's release and although I grew up with Robotnik as his name, I can still accept Eggman (which sounds oddly mechanical imo). Its stupid to bitch about it anyways.

Theres a crapload of japanese Sonic-related stuff here (http://ghz.emulationzone.org/sonic/son1/son1.html#lost), for those who want to read into it a little more.
If I can locate my old Sonic Jam disc/Saturn scart lead, I'll see if I can sort out the Mobius argument considering it contains the japanese manual.

Sceptile_Master

12th March 2005, 04:07 PM

Yeah He'll always be robotnik to me and any true sonic fan.

PS. Welcome to TPM.

Drago

12th March 2005, 09:28 PM

I recall the term Mobius being used in Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, but that in turn was based upon the cartoon. Kinda making it a moot point.

I can't be arsed jumping into an argument (because I suck at them, namely). What I have noted, however, is that Sonic Team runs on the 'one step forward, two steps back theory'.

Sonic Adventure 2 removed Big, added Knuckles and Rouge (and have been bastardizing Knux for a while now, personality wise. He's not as intense as he used to be).
Sonic Heroes removed exploration aspects (mostly), added in useless teams and boring level design, I felt.
Shadow puts in a singular character (hopefully) in levels consisting soley of the running aspect we want, negative would be the gun. Haven't found the other yet, other than looking generally dodgy.

In my opinion 3D Sonic games don't touch 2D Sonic. When they go fast and crazy, it works. When they don't... you end up searching for emeralds and fishing.
I do enjoy the 3D Sonics, but not to the point that the 2D reached. I'm waiting on a 3D Sonic game based entirely on the speed levels, selection of Sonic/Tails/Knuckles, prompt removal of Tails' voice actors. They terrify me.

Legends-Kuja

12th March 2005, 09:28 PM

Yep welcome to TPM, TV 4 Me!

On a tangent subject, I'd like to ask sega where is MY PORTABLE SONIC CD.

Lezta

13th March 2005, 05:33 AM

Yep welcome to TPM, TV 4 Me!

On a tangent subject, I'd like to ask sega where is MY PORTABLE SONIC CD.

I'd just like Sonic CD.

I hate them for not putting it on any collection.

Hate.

Chrono Storm

13th March 2005, 10:50 AM

Yeah, I always wanted to play Sonic CD... well, ever since I heard of it. Maybe that's what Sonic DS will be. WITH UNLOCKABLE SONIC THE FIGHTERS/SONIC RACING, PLEASE.

MetalScyther

13th March 2005, 09:15 PM

holy shit, I forgot all about that

my friend had that "sega channel" think for awhile, as well as a sega CD

let me just say that sonic CD was FREAKIN AWESOME

Metallix

25th March 2005, 05:44 PM

More information:

Shadow the Hedgehog dated, detailed

Sega's darker roly-poly gets his own game; Shadow the Hedgehog rolls onto Xboxes, PS2s, and GameCubes this winter.

Like its mysterious protagonist, several major details about Shadow the Hedgehog were kept under wraps. Sega has announced that the Sonic spin-off will be released this winter on the Xbox, GameCube, and PlayStation 2. The title is being developed by Sega Studios USA.

"Since we first introduced him in [2001's] Sonic Adventure 2, we have wanted to feature Shadow in his own game," said Takashi Iizuka, game director, SEGA Studio USA. "We maintained Shadow as a mysterious character and now fans can control his destiny…"

In Shadow the Hedgehog, gamers will be able to decide whether Shadow is portrayed as hero or villain. Depending on the paths players choose, Shadow's backstory will differ and culminate in one of the multiple endings.

The game features the speedy enigma shooting and racing his way through more than 50 missions. While discovering the truth behind his past, Shadow will be stuck in a battle between aliens, the G.U.N. army, and the evil Dr. Eggman.

Rating and pricing information for Shadow the Hedgehog is not yet available. For more information, check out GameSpot's previous coverage.

By Tim Surette, GameSpot POSTED: 03/25/05 01:48 PM

Sega also recently trademarked the name "Sonic Gems Collection", which hints that another Sonic collection is on it's way. (Hopefully with Sonic CD, Chaotix and the arcade games)

Razola

26th March 2005, 02:58 AM

How many decent Sonic games are left, exactly? They released most of the Game Gear ones on the Sonic Adventure 1 re-release, and Mega Collection has all of the Genesis Classics.

I heard nasty things about Chaotix, and I don't hear people praising the Arcade game. It would basically be Sonic CD for next-gen systems, which is something I would buy if the price was right.

fat man with a monkey

26th March 2005, 03:08 AM

I would shit myself if Sonic CD was released for a next gen. Or if they ported it to the PSP. That'd kick more ass than Mr. T and Jesus combined.

Sceptile_Master

26th March 2005, 05:37 AM

I downloaded a sonic CD demo for the PC. it was cool because you could like travel between time and stuff. If you did bad throughout the past and future then the present suffered and vice versa. it was quite cool. Also I got mobius from the official sonic comic I used to get when was younger.

Metallix

28th March 2005, 09:37 AM

Oh, and here's (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/big_smile/web%20site/Sonic%20Stories/other_pages/home_page.htm)an archive of the storylines featured in the manuals if anyone wants to see them along with some FAQs and other articles.

phaedrus

28th March 2005, 03:17 PM

if it says you pick whether to be a hero/villian, then why does it say fight the "evil" robotnik? that would make you a hero either way.

why are so many things retarded?

TV 4 Me

29th March 2005, 09:05 AM

if it says you pick whether to be a hero/villian, then why does it say fight the "evil" robotnik? that would make you a hero either way.

why are so many things retarded
...theres nothing stopping two villains from duking it out.
As for why so many things are so retarded...well, apparantly its because people in general are retarded considering they vote for games like this.

I heard nasty things about Chaotix, and I don't hear people praising the Arcade game. It would basically be Sonic CD for next-gen systems, which is something I would buy if the price was right.
Indeed. Chaotix...well...sucked shit, to put it mildly. Although, the arcade game wasn't that bad from what I can remember. And 'Sonic Fighters' or whatever the hell it was called wasn't really awful, although it was incredibly short.
Apart form that, theres nothing else they can milk, bar CD of course. Oooh, unless they release the two Sega Pico edutainment games. Now theres a fabulous idea.

By the way, many thanks for that link Metallix.

Razola

3rd April 2005, 04:47 PM

http://img100.exs.cx/img100/6097/shadowgun8zi.jpg

The Muffin Man

3rd April 2005, 04:55 PM

"He's gonna bust out his piece and pop Eggmans crew in the face until they learn to respect his gangsta-ass style. Then he's going to rape the Sonic Franchise EVEN MORE."

Lezta

3rd April 2005, 05:18 PM

Vampire teeth? Wtf?

Crazy

3rd April 2005, 07:27 PM

An edgy Sonic with a gun. My expectations just dropped....I bet you 50$ that it will suck.

fat man with a monkey

3rd April 2005, 07:55 PM

Frankly, it looks plenty cool enough. It's just uncharacteristic for a sonic game.

The Muffin Man

3rd April 2005, 09:39 PM

An edgy Sonic with a gun. My expectations just dropped....I bet you 50$ that it will suck.

And you're gonna use that $50 to buy the game, right?

Razola

3rd April 2005, 10:15 PM

Frankly, it looks plenty cool enough.
How old are you? I laughed my ass off when I saw that picture. It's so juvenile it's insane.

fat man with a monkey

3rd April 2005, 10:26 PM

Hey, Raz, not too hard to check my profile for my age. 16. And I just thought it randomly looked cool. Juvenility has nothing to do with coolness.

Razola

3rd April 2005, 10:41 PM

Hey, Raz, not too hard to check my profile for my age. 16. And I just thought it randomly looked cool. Juvenility has nothing to do with coolness.
It was a rhetorical question. And age certainly does have something to do with perception of coolness.

PNT510

3rd April 2005, 10:42 PM

Yes, it does. Juvenile people tend to thing juvenile stuff looks cool.

fat man with a monkey

3rd April 2005, 10:44 PM

Sorry, Raz, used to dealing with people who would've asked that seriously. I don't exactly know why I think it looks kinda cool, but I do.

GymLeaderYoshi

4th April 2005, 05:30 AM

Am I the only one who notices that looks like New York City in the background?

Honestly, I think this is a cheap cash-in on Shadow's popularity as of late. It well more than likely sell big, as much as I don't want it to. I won't judge the game itself right now, but it's not looking too good as far as the trailer goes.

I'll probably give it a rent, but it sure as hell won't become one of my purchases.

Come on, SonicTeam, even HEROES was better-looking than THIS. You're not TRYING hard enough. :\

Razola

4th April 2005, 01:54 PM

What I find so amusing is that the idea of a Shadow originally sounded appealing just because Shadow's playstyle was the damn same thing as Sonic. For once, it seemed like we were getting what we wanted.

But no, Sonic Team can't have a good, pure Sonic game anymore. THROW IN THE GUNS AND SWORDS.

Did I mention he gets swords? Yeah, the new trailer isn't one to bring you hope.

The Muffin Man

4th April 2005, 02:10 PM

I'm going to go live in denial that everything past Sonic and Knuckles was a great big lie.

Legends-Kuja

4th April 2005, 03:46 PM

^You go on and do that. You can also dust off that old genesis, pop in Sonic 3 and Knuckles, and join the countless fanboys that increasingly fuel my ire against the folks desiring the good old days. I understand the good old days are awesome, I'm not denying that. MY problem is people's unfunded hatred for the new just for the sake of being new. I mean, change is bad right? Metroid changed when it went 3-D, and we all knew how much that sucked and blew. And as bad as Heroes was, it HAD to be better than Bubsy in 3D... right? (Wait, you don't remember Bubsy 3-D? Thought so. It was THAT bad.)

New trailer for reference. A lot of folk on Gamefaqs stopped hating this game with this trailer, but of course that says little.

http://sonic-xtreme.net/theshadowrealm/media/videos/games/shadowthehedgehog2.wmv

I still want Kingdom Hearts 2 over this game.

The Muffin Man

4th April 2005, 03:50 PM

I hope you choke on a fragment of a Sonic Adventure disc.

I hate Sonic Adventure 1, 2, and Heroes not because it's new. But because, and stay with me here, it's CRAP.

You know, a subpar game where I only play as Sonic like 6 times collectively in the Adventure series, and a terrible game overall for Sonic Heroes?

I heard about Bubsy 3D, but my love for the first two inspired me to stay the fuck away.

phaedrus

4th April 2005, 04:25 PM

fat man with a monkey

4th April 2005, 04:37 PM

Razola

4th April 2005, 05:04 PM

Legends didn't mean that Prime sucked; he was being sarcastic and making a poor point that 3D was good for Samus, and thus we're supposed to lick Sega's balls or something for doing the same for Sonic.

The problem Legends is having is that our argument isn't as simple as 3D = Bad or even that 3D is bad for Sonic. It's that Sonic Team clearly cannot make Sonic work in 3D. It's very well possible to have an excellent Sonic game in 3D, and I've heard a lot of interesting ideas kicked around.

The problem is Sonic Team clearly doesn't want to make good games with Sonic anymore. They want to keep diluting his gameplay, which isn't really that big of a problem, the problem is they keep diluting it with pure shit. And now they are going with another brain-twister by giving Shadow not only weapons he doesn't need, but weapons that don't even look right. They are clearly over-sized and not even remotely designed for the gameworld. I laugh whenever I see him try to scoot along with a gun that's almost bigger than him.

It also raises another question: how can a development that has failed multiple times now to create a working camera system going to create a smooth and natural targeting system in a game that is also based on speed? I'm already imagining it now, and it's giving me a headache.

I guess Sonic is akin to Nintendo's Pokemon. Sonic Team realized they don't have to make the games good anymore, just appeal to the kids and let the money come in. A bit sad, but if that means another Panzer Dragoon or even a NiGHTS sequel, I guess it'll ease the pain.

Legends-Kuja

4th April 2005, 08:23 PM

^Whoa whoa WHOA... I don't support the licking of Sega's balls, far from it. Heroes was mediocre, saved only by Metal Madness/Overlord. It's jusst that because of the numerous failures of the 3-D world (read Castlevania, about half of Heroes, Batman...) that we're supposed to hate everything... new. I mean, because of Sonic Heroes, Advance 3, the best Sonic game since CD, is VASTLY underrated and gets no respect! Let's not kill everything that's new.

That being said, I'm still more anxious about Kingdom Hearts 2 than this game.

And why is Muffin Man running for pope? Doesn't that clown know that muffins went out of style months ago?

The Muffin Man

4th April 2005, 08:57 PM

Dude, Metroid Prime sucked. And the first sonic adventures I ever played for dreamcast was kind of fun. Also, while I'm spouting taboo after taboo, Final Fantasy 7 sucks, and Legend of Zelda isn't anything to be too impressed about.

I don't even know you anymore.

Advance 3, the best Sonic game since CD
Sonic and Knuckles came out after Sonic CD.

Razola

4th April 2005, 09:18 PM

Advance 2 was the best of the Advance Series. Three was an example in shit level design.

Lezta

5th April 2005, 03:59 AM

Advance 2 was the best of the Advance Series. Three was an example in shit level design.

I'm not sure what to make of this. I mean, the level design was lacking in all three if you ask me. They all managed to be fun (3 I thought more so than 2, but 2 still ruled so meh) but the level design just seems so... linear. I spend time vaguely aware there are other paths but I have no insentive to follow them except by accident. I suspect it's because Sonic games are actually fast now, when really they weren't before. (Unless you happened to be rolling down a hill or hit a spring or something)

Meh.

Drago

5th April 2005, 05:03 AM

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=140

Legends, the fact isn't that we hate new Sonic games because we're obsessed with the old ones (well okay, perhaps a little), but that by comparison, the new ones suck.
I don't want to go in-depth about the 3D Sonic games, it's been done countless times, but my problem with the Advance games is that they haven't done anything new and exciting. I felt the first one was my most justified purchase, because it was Sonic on Game Boy. Yee-ha! Then, I had two more Sonics on Game Boy, neither diverting wildly from the formula, neither offering anything drastically groundbreaking.

S&K, CD and everything may seem dated by now, but at the time, they were the thing. They were the height of gaming, and they offered something that we wanted. Now, for all the bells and whistles, no Sonic game these days really gives us everything we want. It's an old formula, and until it gets seriously shaken up (by something OTHER than a pistol-toting rodent), the new games get no credibility.

My favourite new game? Sonic Battle. *ducks debris* Now that's coo'.

Metallix

5th April 2005, 08:29 AM

I think even Sonic Team knows that the Sonic Advance games are crap, I recently read an interview with Naka in which he repeatedly stated that the Advance games are made outside Sonic Team and kept on changing the subject when asked about them.

Razola

5th April 2005, 10:10 AM

I'm not sure what to make of this. I mean, the level design was lacking in all three if you ask me. They all managed to be fun (3 I thought more so than 2, but 2 still ruled so meh) but the level design just seems so... linear. I spend time vaguely aware there are other paths but I have no insentive to follow them except by accident. I suspect it's because Sonic games are actually fast now, when really they weren't before. (Unless you happened to be rolling down a hill or hit a spring or something)

Meh.
The series really didn't boast the best in design, but I liked 2 because it was the fastest and added something to keep it from being all press right. The little tricks you could do in air allowed you to get to better areas or prevent a death. The latter is actually pretty damn cheap since Sonic levels use to always be very vertical with a high, middle, and low road to take. The former was a decent idea.

It did have the absolute worst bosses, however.

Metallix

5th April 2005, 11:04 AM

If you ask me, Sonic Advance 2 was nothing BUT pressing right. :s:

It is at this point that I shall point everyone in the direction of Retro Sonic (http://www.randomsonicnet.org/users/rsonic/index.html). A Sonic fangame which is shaping up to be something REALLY special. (The full release is in July BTW, not March)

Legends-Kuja

5th April 2005, 11:16 AM

Sonic and Knuckles came out after Sonic CD.
So did Advance 3. You point is... :P

And you never DID tell me why you're running for pope.

And nothing groundbreaking on Advance 3?! Did you not pay attention to the soundtrack? The teamwork shot DONE RIGHT?! CHAOS FRIGGIN ANGEL?!

You probably hate Sonic's level design in 3 because it reminded you of Donkey Kong Country and Mario. While not necessarily a bad thing, Sonic's not supposed to remind you he's on a Nintendo system. :P

Razola

5th April 2005, 11:27 AM

And nothing groundbreaking on Advance 3?! Did you not pay attention to the soundtrack?
I keep my GBA muted most the time, but I don't recall any standout tunes. Nothing "groundbreaking".

The teamwork shot DONE RIGHT?!
While interesting, it was just an extention of different characters. It didn't dramatically gameplay, and the teamwork shtick has been done before.

CHAOS FRIGGIN ANGEL?!
What?

You probably hate Sonic's level design in 3 because it reminded you of Donkey Kong Country and Mario. While not necessarily a bad thing, Sonic's not supposed to remind you he's on a Nintendo system. :P
No, I just don't like cheap spike/endless pit deaths repeated over and over. Not to mention an utter lack of depth. These are features absent from Mario and his simian cohort.

Legends-Kuja

5th April 2005, 04:51 PM

^You muted your gameboy... of course you're not gonna remember any good tunes...

Gah, why do I even bother? Thanks to jaded Sonic fanboys, those assholes at Penny Arcade and Sonic Heroes, Sonic has crashed and burned, Sonic Advance 3 was ignored, and Shadow will merely sell out what's left to the casual gamer. I think I just might join the 20D fanboys with Advance 3, CD, and reminisce the days in which everyone over the age of 11 didn't hate Sonic...

Razola

5th April 2005, 05:14 PM

Gah, why do I even bother? Thanks to jaded Sonic fanboys, those assholes at Penny Arcade and Sonic Heroes, Sonic has crashed and burned, Sonic Advance 3 was ignored, and Shadow will merely sell out what's left to the casual gamer. I think I just might join the 20D fanboys with Advance 3, CD, and reminisce the days in which everyone over the age of 11 didn't hate Sonic...
What do they have to do with this? Nothing, it's purely Sega's fault. I've read the comments of those "Jaded Fanboys" and "assholes at Penny-Arcade" and most of them are right on the money. And duh-buh-duh, most of them right now are talking about their enjoyment of Sonic 2.

Sonic Advance 3 wasn't bad, I did buy it. But you say groundbreaking and start to chuckle.

Just admit it: you have no argument. I haven't seen much of one, and it's starting to annoy me on a mod level. You keep saying that it's the fault of 2D fanboys and blaming all sorts of nonsensical things. I don't think anyone in this thread has made the general statement that 2D is better than 3D, but rather than Sonic is not working in 3D. But we know he worked quite well in 2D, so why is it wrong to ask for Sega to try it in 2D? It sounds pretty logical to me, and if we had a different developer working on Sonic, I think people would be more open to a 3D Sonic. But Sonic Team has failed multiple times now, and I don't think it's crazy to let these people worry over yet another project that seems hastily thrown together.

Now, are you going to take the time to address the arguments I have presented, or are you going to continue to rant and rave against fanboys that don't really exist?

GymLeaderYoshi

5th April 2005, 05:46 PM

Here's my idea on the 'new' Sonic Games.

Sonic Adventure 1: Good plot, subpar graphics, and the worst voice acting I had ever heard on a game. Camera is troublesome, but I don't have problems with it. Gameplay was alright, and the music was... okay. Nice selection of characters, but my only problem is with Big and Amy. Amy's too slow for my tastes, and Big's just a pain when trying to catch a 2000G fish. It seems to enjoy happening at chance, and I have the worst luck of all. :p

Sonic Adventure 2: Plot became a little more 'in-depth', allowed you to play as two sides (Though overall gameplay wasn't differing for both, I enjoying blowing stuff up as the Doc), graphics are better, voice acting is definitley improved since last Adventure, camera seems to trouble a lotta people here, though for the life of me I cannot understand why. Ah well. Music was decent, level design was very good, a lot more detailed for the most part.

Sonic Heroes: Plot sucked. I have to admit it, there were too many plotholes, and not enough story. Eggman didn't even get much of a role here, as Metal was really the Eggman Bosses throughout the game. Gameplay was nifty, I handled it fairly well. (I've heard others had problems with the controls, though). Interesting level design and great music. However, after a while, it got old. (Believe it or not, I went as far as playing 100 hours on the game. Too much free time, if you ask me.) After reaching that area, I haven't really touched Heroes. I was happy with it before, but meh, I soon came to be very dissapointed with the plot/story, and Eggman role. =\ (At least they included him near the end. This Shadow game won't even have him, last I heard.)

Sonic Advance: First of the Advance series, put together by Dimps, main copyrights are to SonicTeam. Kept the slow-going classic play, and level design. Music was alright, character select decent (Amy, again, was too slow for my tastes.) Nice bosses. Takes me back to the old 'Stop at end of stage and prepare for battle!' mode of things. But it was too short, and backgrounds (Not to mention some sprites) Could have been way together. Felt like it was kinda put together last-minute like.

Sonic Advance 2: The sequel to the former. Again, made by Dimps. The fast-paced running action really suited me, as well as the 'tricks' involvement they added in. great music and level design. Sprites and Bosses were also much better. I saw lots of improvements in this one. Even AMY was fast here. A setback would be that you're only 'running' 95% of the time. Got old after awhile, but still, a nice little game to mess with.

Sonic Battle: Not sure if Dimps was involved with this one. This was certainly an interesting game... Gameplay was decent, as well as the level design and music. (3D in a GBA, didn't think it would work out, but it did, apparently.) Plot is fairly nice, though Shadow really didn't need to be involved in this one. His only purpose was for the emerald Emerl needed, so I figure someone else could've been there for that. The first Sonic-themed advance game to involve character voices, which were alright. A couple things that bother me were the fighting moves. Sure, they were good, but after using the same one oh-so-many times, it got tedious, and made me wish there was something more. Also, the fact that Shadow had some pretty damn cheap moves when battling against him pestered me. (Fling him against the wall, fly in for a heavy damaging move, but he suddenly uses Chaos Control, and hits you first before you can even TOUCH him!)

Sonic Advance 3: Another sequel, again, by Dimps. I loved the music and level design here. (Remix of Green Hill Zone, oh yez!) Bosses coulda been better, but I like the flashy when ya hit them. :p There's actually some sort of story going on here, but it looked like a poor base off of Battle. (Robot enemy, Gemerl!) There were a couple of small glitches that I noticed, too. Not too good. The partner gameplay was a nice addition, though it kinda bases off of Heroes there. All the partner was really good for anyway was to help you get a hidden Chao or some such. There was only one honestly good team to use, anyway. The standard Sonic-Tails combo. You still have tricks with Sonic here, so it's a little easy to get around. The same move-right-fast-paced gameplay is still in motion here, but it adds a little bit of the classic aspect. While all this is good, it doesn't quite compare to Sonic Advance 2. (I found that one more replayable than SA3)

So there, my thoughts on all the recent Sonic games. I'm not asking for a flame, as everyone is entitled to their opinion. I won't get angry if, like, you completely disagree with what I have here. 'Tis my views, I ain't trying to convert anyone or anything. But.. Yeah. Seems there are a lot of Classic fans here. I, for one, am for Classic and New. Both are really great, in my opinion, though SonicTeam -has- been lacking in effort lately, so my views on the New games are differing slightly than they were before. (One way to prove this is to look at the NiGHTS cameos. They were in every 3D game, but in Heroes, it just vanished. Where did it go, eh?) Anyway, Sonic DS is coming soon, so I hope to see something good come from that. It'd be better than the Shadow game I'm seeing here... I'm still not all that impressed with that choice of game. Everyone who's been around long enough has gotten their own game. Sonic series, Knuckles Chaotix, Tails' Adventures for the Game Gear, but where has we seen an Eggman game? No, I'm not counting Mean Bean Machine for a couple reasons; It's based off of AoStH Robotnik, and it uses Puyo Puyo stuff. Eggman should get, like, his own TRUE game. That'd be nifty, if SonicTeam actually decided to make some EFFORT. Though, it probably won't happen. Thank god for fangame departments... (Boy I'm just ranting on and on here. I wonder if I got a little sidetracked in this paragraph... Ah well. Time for me to shut up, hm? :p)

Okay then, I'm done.

~GLY

The Muffin Man

5th April 2005, 08:33 PM

So did Advance 3. You point is... :P

I mean, because of Sonic Heroes, Advance 3, the best Sonic game since CD
For Sonic Advance 3 to be the best since Sonic CD, CD would have to be after S+K.

And you never DID tell me why you're running for pope.
You never did tell me why you're defending a game that throws an oversized pistol on a clone of one of the most beloved video game characters.

Gah, why do I even bother? Thanks to jaded Sonic fanboys, those assholes at Penny Arcade and Sonic Heroes, Sonic has crashed and burned,
Do you mean PA the forum or the comic? Either way, Sonic in 3D has been pissing me off long before I came in contact with EITHER. And the Sonic Fanboys are jaded for a reason.

Sonic Advance 3 was ignored, and Shadow will merely sell out what's left to the casual gamer. I think I just might join the 2D fanboys with Advance 3, CD, and reminisce the days in which everyone over the age of 11 didn't hate Sonic...
You just hate S+K, is that it? Oh well, we can't all have taste :P

And to give you another "Cram it" - I bought Sonic Mega Collection the other day. I'm 20. Guess your generalization "Everyone over 11 hates Sonic" must be, like most of your "argument", wrong.

Razola

5th April 2005, 10:17 PM

I have a theory that Sega is pulling a "New Coke" strategy, and in 2007 the crowds will cheer as the first excellent Sonic game in over a decade is released.

Only time will tell.

fat man with a monkey

5th April 2005, 10:28 PM

Myself? I think this is more of a crystal pepsi (that was it, right?), considering that we can still get our fix of old soniic.

Legends-Kuja

8th April 2005, 08:05 AM

I'm going to try this one last time. If my point is not made by then, I'm afraid I'm going to have to throw in the towel.

Raz, you say that I'm blaming "non-sensical things" and that my argument doesn't exist. I'd like to say that whatever you THOUGHT my argument was IS NOT MY POINT. I'd first like to correct an earlier quote of mine.

I think I just might join the 2D fanboys with Advance 3, CD, and reminisce the days in which everyone over the age of 11 didn't hate new age Sonic...

Yeah, I said it. When I supposedly defended Shadow the Hedgehog, most of the classic lovers immediately assumed my first game was Sonic Adventure. THAT is my point: you're not judging this fairly. At all. You have EVERY RIGHT to say this games sucks once it's released and you've tried it. But passing an end-all judgment and crying "DESECRATION" before there's even a demo out? THAT'S what's making me mad. And I'm not defending Sega here. I wasn't disappointed by Heroes so much as I thought it mediocre compared to the 2-D games (yes, even the recent ones) and SA/2.

And these fanboys DON'T EXIST?! You mean to tell me that quotes like this:

This is an INSULT.

Its official..

SEGA sucks balls.

Shutup you all. This isnt original, creative, forward thinking, innovation, or any other variant of the word. This is pissing on sonic tradition. This paying no mind to any real story line. And its just a move to appeal to greasy 13 year olds who get off on being able to shoot s***.

Its a cheap idea, its a cheap game, it cheapens sonic as a whole.

This is s***. Suck it if you think it isnt.
Mark a sensical person making a fair judgement and NOT a whining, angsting, 2-D fanboy stuck in the mid 1990's?

Oh, and

You just hate S+K, is that it? Oh well, we can't all have taste :P

My taste is different than yours. Izzat a problem? :P

PNT510

8th April 2005, 01:31 PM

The thing is, why would Shadow be any different? It looks the same as the other 3D sonic games(which have all been nothing better than okay at best), and they're giving the main character a gun. So we know it's the same crappy gameplay again, just this time with things that don't even fit into the world.

Razola

8th April 2005, 01:50 PM

I'm going to try this one last time. If my point is not made by then, I'm afraid I'm going to have to throw in the towel.
Good, because I wouldn't want to warn you for being incendiary.

Raz, you say that I'm blaming "non-sensical things" and that my argument doesn't exist. I'd like to say that whatever you THOUGHT my argument was IS NOT MY POINT. I'd first like to correct an earlier quote of mine.
Read that bolded part. Don't blame for misinterpretation when the error was clearly on your part.

Yeah, I said it. When I supposedly defended Shadow the Hedgehog, most of the classic lovers immediately assumed my first game was Sonic Adventure.
That's never really been seriously assumed.

THAT is my point: you're not judging this fairly. At all.
Sure we are.

You have EVERY RIGHT to say this games sucks once it's released and you've tried it. But passing an end-all judgment and crying "DESECRATION" before there's even a demo out? THAT'S what's making me mad. And I'm not defending Sega here. I wasn't disappointed by Heroes so much as I thought it mediocre compared to the 2-D games (yes, even the recent ones) and SA/2.
This is what pisses me off, that I forbidden from thinking just because. I know this is what some fatcat exec what's you to do, treat each game like it's new. But we have things to judge Shadow on. Previous Sonics of this generation have not been well-recieved at all. And do these trailers look like they are saying "Hey, we've taking criticism to heart now and have really produced something good?" Now, it's more like, "Hey, we still don't get it. We've taken a comittee-produced character, handing him weapons, and are basically dropping to the lowest common denominator."

You're point is so much bullshit, it shocks me. What's the point of the trailer then? So we can all masturbate to the glory that is Sega? Let's take an example: if a convict who has been arrested four times in the past is released, are you going to trust? The answer is duh, not entirely. I guess we could say "While this game looks like something Satan leaves in a toilet, it does have a chance of being good." But that's just agruing semantics, unlike you we're intelligent people and can assume that any game has a chance of being good.

And these fanboys DON'T EXIST?! You mean to tell me that quotes like this:
Fanboys exist, sure, but not in these mass-paranoia numbers you've pulled out your ass. I have seen little evidence of Fanboyism in this thread, yet you are playing that card on people who disagree with you. In my eyes, the only Fanboy in this thread is your ass. You are irrational, illogical, and dodge questions like Neo dodges bullets. Have you addressed any of my point? Few , if any. You just keep blaming the fanboys and telling us stuff that's either obvious logic or retarded anti-logic.

Mark a sensical person making a fair judgement and NOT a whining, angsting, 2-D fanboy stuck in the mid 1990's?
These are people with valid points. Most people don't even care that Shadow has a gun, but the fact that the gun doesn't fit with the sci-fi world of Sonic. He's an anthromorphic hedgehog with a handgun. It looks stupid, and NONE of those quotes said anything about 2D Sonic, just that this is pissing on the storyline. Because even the 3D ones had some element of that.

Oh, and

My taste is different than yours. Izzat a problem? :P
No, it's not. It's more than enocuraged. But keep this inept and inflammatory attempt at debate up, and you are in trouble.

Oh, and I kindly ask you address my questions sometimes rather than go off on a tangent.

Legends-Kuja

9th April 2005, 11:26 PM

...

This argument's pretty hopeless. I look back and see that you misinterpreted some things I said, and maybe I haven't really addressed all those questions you asked me, so I'll take those questions and answer them here.

First, this random one out the way:

What [about Chaos Angel]?
I'm still very suspicious that you didn't really play this game so much as you tried it out, was unimpressed/beat it in 3 hours/sucked at it, and didn't really pay attention to the finer points of the game. Chaos Angel's the last full Zone, and not only is it better looking (and more difficult) than the entire rest of the game, but it's a welcome change from the endless mechanical base/Death Egg schtick Dr. Robuttnik's always tried to pull over us for the last 10+ Sonic games. And the music for that stage is also brilliant, but as you said, you muted the gameboy. You missed out!

And now we get to the serious stuff.

What do [the crazy fanboys] have to do with this?

Simple. They complain loudest, and unlike the little kids and the rest of the Sonic fans (the majority, actually), they actually have a following, and a rather heavy one at that. What could go wrong with the Sonic franchise than to have it's most experienced fans at each other's throats, therefore making the money hungry Sega either try to appease them and fail (Sonic Heroes), or ignore them completely and cater to their newer/younger audience (Shadow)?

But we know he worked quite well in 2D, so why is it wrong to ask for Sega to try it in 2D?
NOTHING'S wrong with 2-D. Hey, I'm all for it, I play my GBA more than any other system. Problem is if no one notices it, what's the point? If Sega's not smart enough to advertise thier supposedly superior 2-D games, it's not gonna happen! Sonic Heroes and the Adventures got LOADS of advertising. Sonic Advance 3, which actually what Heroes SHOULD'VE been, got NO ADVERTISEMENT WHATSOEVER. Metallix mentioned that Naka didn't think too highly of the Advance games either--shame, because they an equal amount of potential. If Sonic Heroes sells and a 2-D equivalent does not (Advance 3), what does that tell Sega? Heroes sold despite mondo hatred-- and no, not everyone returned theirs to the store or let it collect dust despite what these fanboys would like to tell you.

how can a development that has failed multiple times now to create a working camera system going to create a smooth and natural targeting system in a game that is also based on speed?

This is a worry I agree with you on. Sonic's too fast for bug-free camera and too "cool" for a uber-refined camera that doesn't take dramatic pans at random intervals. But since the majority of the crowd thought Heroes camera was an improvement over the crap SA2 one (dude! You could actually go BACKWARDS![/beast boy moment]), Sega's going to pull a "do what works" and not bother with improving anything. I still curse the overabundance of Sonic platformers and crave the day the Hedgehog gets his own epic RPG. Yes, RPG.

What's the point of the trailer then? So we can all masturbate to the glory that is Sega?
HELL NO.This question is the result of GROSS misinterpretation. Yet AGAIN, because I actually defend this game, you assume that I hate your opinion because I want you all to worship Sega. NO. What I'd LIKE to happen is for you to wait until SOMEONE's played a demo before writing it off as the next great suckage. If it plays just like Heroes and you hated Heroes, fine! You've made fair judgment. You can mock Sega all the way to their bankruptcy. But we only have an IDEA what this game feels like... not enough info to be condemning it. And yes, because it LOOKS like Heroes so far you have every right to be unimpressed/jaded--I'm not all that excited either.

That's (because I defended Shadow, I must be young/first began with SA1) never really been seriously assumed.

In all seriousness, my sarcasm detector must be off, because

How old are you? I laughed my ass off when I saw that picture. It's so juvenile it's insane.

and

You must have been born in the mid-90s. You probably haven't even touched a Genesis.

sound very serious to me. Either that or an affront to an older Sonic fanboy that actually LIKES Sonic's newer stuff.

Now, are you going to take the time to address the arguments I have presented, or are you going to continue to rant and rave against fanboys that don't really exist?

I addressed what I could above. You also mention this is "mass-paranoia numbers" pulled out of my ass... Since when did I mention any NUMBER? No, these guys are relatively small, but as I said above they speak loudest and have the biggest following.

And although Penny Arcade made decent comments right until they started comparing Sega to murder porn, the individuals "with vaild points" are an absolute farce at best, most of those comments I posted were made JUST MOMENTS after that trailer was shown... doesn't sound like fair judgment to me.

The Muffin Man

10th April 2005, 12:09 AM

And although Penny Arcade made decent comments right until they started comparing Sega to murder porn,

...Penny Arcade has a hard-drinking, cancelled digital video device, and a machine that literally fornicates fruit and pours it into a cup.

They had a series of strips where a WoW Beta Tester was hunted by a guy in bear-skin with a pet bear named William.

A comic-series where they drive off the road and are left as bloody messes ended up with one of them jokingly getting Spider-mans powers through a blood transfusion.

I think I've made my case as to why you can't trust PA COMICS for 100% truthful opinions. Anyway, why should I wait till I've played a demo of the game to make my opinion? I've been playing Sonic for at LEAST a decade. Maybe more(I'm 20). I know what is and is not Sonic. I don't need a demo to tell me that Sonic(a Sonic clone) with a gun is gonna suck. They took a character who feels like like nothing more than an angsty replacement and threw a gun on him. Remember how clunky and shitty the Robotnik/Tails levels were? They were slow, and crappy. Why? They had mechs with guns. With normal Sonic speed, you'd essentially be running into something every 10 seconds. Speed and guns do not work. I'm afraid this games gonna have a crappy lock-on system that'll make me lock on, and then follow the enemy as I zoom by and crash me into another enemy.

Legends-Kuja

14th April 2005, 02:55 PM

Apparently there are some new scans. I only got one to work, but I'm sending all 4 anyway:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/big_smile/Stuff/gm-1.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/big_smile/Stuff/gm-2.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/big_smile/Stuff/gm-3.jpg
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/big_smile/Stuff/gm-4.jpg

Sega: "No, we're not being sellouts! We're giving Shadow CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT!"
*Pause of laughter*

I'm thinking Sega spokespeople should join those recent anti-cigarette ads and produce a Fox sitcom. It'd make millions!

The Muffin Man

14th April 2005, 03:59 PM

Did...they even look up the definitions for nemesis and enemy? They basically said "Shadows not Sonics enemy, he's his enemy."

Ugh...I have NO hope for this game, now.

Lezta

14th April 2005, 05:03 PM

I love how the magazine said the 'range of playable characters' was a 3D Sonic strength. Made me giggle.

Heald

14th April 2005, 05:29 PM

Those scans you've posted make it look like Sega just google image searched '9mm' then copied and pasted the first result into Shadow's hand. It looks out of place, it looks crap and it looks stupid. Sonic has a cartoon style so at least make the gun cartoony. Christ. This is the most retarded thing I've seen since this morning when that girl with Down's walked down the road.

fat man with a monkey

14th April 2005, 06:16 PM

I hereby retract any previous statements I made regarding the possible non-crappiness of this game. I also decline to comment on my past comments.

Legends-Kuja

14th April 2005, 08:35 PM

phaedrus

14th April 2005, 09:21 PM

"THE END IS UPON US! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES, FOR SHADOW'S GAME IS SHITTIER THAN EVER!"

The Muffin Man

14th April 2005, 10:12 PM

http://cube.ign.com/articles/604/604096p1.html

Want another gutbuster? Apparently IGN LIKES this game! The end is near!

Hey, maybe if Sonic goes down, they can revive NiGHTS! Even though I never played it...

Oh no. Shock. Awe. It has a gun. The average IGN writer is a 13 yr old in mind, so guns are "so sweet. Even for the Kidtendo LOLZ M I RITE"

Gamespy nominates it for Game of the Year, I bet.

Razola

15th April 2005, 01:47 AM

I stopped reading the GM interview when Takashi said that gunplay was offering something different.

The Muffin Man

16th April 2005, 12:25 AM

I stopped reading the GM interview when Takashi said that gunplay was offering something different.

For a Sonic game, yes.

Of course...technically, Halo 2 added "something different" by giving us a huge tentacle...thing. Yet it was still essentially a prettier Halo 1 after a while.

PNT510

16th April 2005, 12:57 AM

For a Sonic game, yes.

Of course...technically, Halo 2 added "something different" by giving us a huge tentacle...thing. Yet it was still essentially a prettier Halo 1 after a while.
I would have to diagree with you, Single player is more of them same, but Halo 1 is almost unplayable multiplayer after playing Halo 2. I think one of the best parts of Halo 2 is how multiplayer seems like its the same, but the game is balanced about twice as much. I mean in Halo 1 would could kill someone using the pistol in blood gultch when they are on opposite bases, it's just terrible. The second game is so much better where every weapon(except the needler) is usefull.

The Muffin Man

16th April 2005, 01:09 AM

I agree about multiplayer. I meant single-player. I like how vehicles are target-able with the rockets, so it's not absolutely unfair.
Played some MP today. Had a great time playing 25 kill slayer FFA and Team Slayer. It was the Bloodgulch "style" match.

Razola

16th April 2005, 03:08 AM

For a Sonic game, yes.
So what the hell was E-103 and Tails/Robotnik? Robot and mech play?

The Muffin Man

16th April 2005, 05:56 PM

So what the hell was E-103 and Tails/Robotnik? Robot and mech play?

What was who and what now? I don't know what you're talking about. Tails has never used any guns in his life. In fact, I don't even know who Shadow is. When the hell has Sonic EVER been in 3D? Or with more than Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles?

Legends-Kuja

17th April 2005, 12:07 PM

PNT510

17th April 2005, 02:58 PM

Is there any reason they should stay on the ship? And don't claim 2D Fanboy-ism because I'm not a huge Sonic fan, but Sega just hasn't given the fans what they wanted in the past in a 3D Sonic game so why is that gonna change now? Especially seeing some of the changes already added to the franchise.

Lezta

17th April 2005, 04:55 PM

I think that's the key. Sega isn't giving the fans what they want. If past 3d efforts had been outstanding then maybe, just maybe, they'd be justified in doing something 'different' like this.

The Muffin Man

17th April 2005, 05:39 PM

^Shrinking in denial won't save you. Sorry. You know very well there's 3D Sonic, and the fact that 90% people over 17 don't like anything REMOTELY dealing with Sonic in 3D land doesn't mean you can stop pretending it exists... otherwise, the 3D games will only get crappier.
You don't hear "jokes" much, do you?

And Raz, although E-102 counts, Tails/Eggman do not because they use mechs and not direct weaponry themselves.

This game isn't exciting anymore because the execs are spouting mechanized crap, but I'm still convinced that the elder Sonic fans are abandoning ship a bit too soon.
Yeah. We are. And ya know why? BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING TO WAIT TILL THE DAMN THING HITS THE ICEBERG. It's like if the ship were floating on water, and we can SEE the iceberg, and are telling the captain "Dude, that ones bigger than the other 40 shitty icebergs. Steer AWAY!" and he aims for it AND SPEEDS UP. It doesn't take rocket science to know NOTHING GOOD WILL COME OF IT.

In short, this game will be shit. If it is good, I will sell my Sonic Mega Collection and never play another Sonic game ever again.

Legends-Kuja

17th April 2005, 09:02 PM

You don't hear "jokes" much, do you?

Only if they're funny. I heard those jokes so many times they're not worth playing along with anymore.

Yeah. We are. And ya know why? BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING TO WAIT TILL THE DAMN THING HITS THE ICEBERG. It's like if the ship were floating on water, and we can SEE the iceberg, and are telling the captain "Dude, that ones bigger than the other 40 shitty icebergs. Steer AWAY!" and he aims for it AND SPEEDS UP. It doesn't take rocket science to know NOTHING GOOD WILL COME OF IT.

In short, this game will be shit. If it is good, I will sell my Sonic Mega Collection and never play another Sonic game ever again.

I've said it, and I'll say it again, NO, I DON'T THINK THIS GAME WILL RULE THE UNIVERSE. Matter of fact, I find it rather unexciting. I'm just irked that everyone who hates the idea doesn't just hate it, they think it'll be the most horrible game since Superman 64, it will sink Sonic into nothingness and it'll start TEH APOKOLIPS. Don't get it. You can smack me, mock me, call me names if you want to, but I don't see why everyone has to make a big stink about yet another venture/serve up for the casual gamer, this time with the DARK doppelganger of another mascot. Can't you just say "I don't like this idea, I ain't playing it" and move on, rather than continue to compare it to TEH END OF TEH YOOONEYVERSE?!

By some morbid fascination I return to the topic. And it seems more of the same. Same generalizations that say I'm some 11 year old fool that "likez teh GUNZ yo" because I defend the game. Same "LIEK OMG SEGA IS TEH DOOMED" crap, same old, same old. Someone might read this addend to a post, someone might not, but as I said, this argument doesn't exist anymore. One person with a different view does not an argument make. Even had I launched a more effective defense earlier, I'd still be dead.

Oh, and maybe if someone actually CARED about this game I could find some updates, but of course, 90% of this forum is thoroughly convinced that this game is indeed, shit and that yes indeed, Sonic is as good a dead when it launches.

The Muffin Man

17th April 2005, 11:01 PM

Heald

18th April 2005, 02:19 PM

It's pretty pathetic that the only 'decent', and I use decent loosely since it was a bit of a soggy pile of testicles, 3D Sonic game was on the Mega Drive.

Legends-Kuja

18th April 2005, 04:16 PM

You don't get it, do you?

You're making a huge fucking stink about us bashing a game that WILL be absolute and utter shit. Just like Adventure. Just like Adventure 2. Just like Adventure 2: Battle. Just like Heroes. And you would be defending it even the tiniest bit if you didn't think it had some inkling of being a good game.

Otherwise you'd take this goddamn crusade out of this ONE thread and go find the others where people are bashing a game and bring it there.
You can't DEAL with the fact that the game has an inkling, and ONLY an inkling of being good because you, along with 90% of this forum, hated every 3-D Sonic game. Lemme tell ya: the Sonic franchise would've been long dead if you represented the opinions of the world. Just because YOU think 3-D Sonic stinks doesn't mean everyone over the age of 12 thinks so, too. And yet again, you prove my point that you can't just say it sucks, you have to equate it with the sinking the Titanic, the end of the Sonic series, and other bizarre shit I can't even begin to comprehend.

I don't need to "bring it" to other game topics (Although I feasably could on a Kingdom hearts game), because this is the ONLY game that everyone hates AND decides it will be the end of the world.

And Heald, you named the worst 3-D Sonic game, and think it's better than Adventure 2 AND Heroes? Good luck proving that--it's the second slowest Sonic game in existence.

Heald

18th April 2005, 04:35 PM

And Heald, you named the worst 3-D Sonic game, and think it's better than Adventure 2 AND Heroes? Good luck proving that--it's the second slowest Sonic game in existence.Prove an opinion? I automatically win this argument you tool.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/HealdPK/fatality.jpg

Legends-Kuja

18th April 2005, 05:01 PM

^What opinion? That I need Photoshop to prove I'm better than someone who has a dissenting opinion because I can't back my own up?

Heald

18th April 2005, 05:10 PM

I was going to go into painstaking detail since you've gotten it completely wrong but you're not worth it.

Legends-Kuja

18th April 2005, 07:08 PM

I guess we're not talking 3-D blast, then? Would've been nice to be more specific.

If you ARE, then I guess I'm not worth it, after all. I mean, we're only discussing the end of the Sonic franchise as we know it, right?

The Muffin Man

18th April 2005, 08:02 PM

You can't DEAL with the fact that the game has an inkling, and ONLY an inkling of being good because you, along with 90% of this forum, hated every 3-D Sonic game. Lemme tell ya: the Sonic franchise would've been long dead if you represented the opinions of the world.
Do you walk outside barefoot, and hurt your foot on a sharp rock, do you keep walking, saying "Well eventually it'll get better," after previously being out there with shoes unharmed? Or would you go back to get your shoes and realize you're an idiot?
This is the Sonic case. 2D Sonics did not suck until recently. 3D Sonic always has.

Just because YOU think 3-D Sonic stinks doesn't mean everyone over the age of 12 thinks so, too. And yet again, you prove my point that you can't just say it sucks, you have to equate it with the sinking the Titanic, the end of the Sonic series, and other bizarre shit I can't even begin to comprehend.
You're right. I'm gonna go buy the newest Dreamcast game. I mean, Sonics done so well, it means great things for Segas next gen console.

I don't need to "bring it" to other game topics (Although I feasably could on a Kingdom hearts game), because this is the ONLY game that everyone hates AND decides it will be the end of the world.
People thought this about Metroid. Metroid Prime rocked. People were appeased. Sonic went into 3D with 3D Blast. It sucked ass. People were scared when we were bombarded by 3D Sonic game after 3D Sonic game. Remember Sonic R, Sonic Jam, Sonic Shuffle...?

And Heald, you named the worst 3-D Sonic game, and think it's better than Adventure 2 AND Heroes? Good luck proving that--it's the second slowest Sonic game in existence.
Slowest speed-wise...? Possibly(again, Sonic Shuffle?). Slowest as in it's just boring and drags on? Not hardly.

Also, I believe Healds point was that you wanted him to prove an OPINION. Which is IMPOSSIBLE you ignorant douche. Sorry to go into insults(not really) but if it wasn't painfully obvious, you're avoiding the true fact at hand: You told Heald to prove an opinion. When caught, you strung together some weak little counter-point, hoping to get the last word in.

Deck Knight

18th April 2005, 08:59 PM

Sickening. I haven't even played the game nor seen the trailer, but I'm already queasy.

A GUN! Ridiculous!

Sonic already has Super Speed, High jumping ability, a Sense of Style, Spikes, and can even go "Super Saiyan", he(or any clone of his) does not need a ****ing gun! Geezus Sega, at least TRY to make a good sonic game, giving into FPS fanboys who want guns in every game is just a sad, pathetic move.

Grow some balls Sega, damnit! Grow some balls!

Legends-Kuja

18th April 2005, 09:13 PM

Do you walk outside barefoot, and hurt your foot on a sharp rock, do you keep walking, saying "Well eventually it'll get better," after previously being out there with shoes unharmed? Or would you go back to get your shoes and realize you're an idiot?
This is the Sonic case. 2D Sonics did not suck until recently. 3D Sonic always has.

Hmph... Please tell me the point of that analogy. You assume Sega stubbed its toe on some sharp rock (Sonic Adventure 1). And therefore it should've stopped right there. That so called "sharp rock" earned them lots of money and proved to be one of the FEW franchises that didn't totally lose its roots when in 3-D at the time (the only other one I can think of that applies to that time at the moment is Mario.). If Sega decided to always keep its shoes on when it went outside (produce no 3-D Sonic game after Adventure 1), Sonic would be dead a long time ago. Only bomberman has benefitted from dropping out of 3-D permanently (and even at that I don't see him much anymore...).

You're right. I'm gonna go buy the newest Dreamcast game. I mean, Sonics done so well, it means great things for Segas next gen console.

Wow... Amazing. You actually think Sega could've rescued its company had Sonic stayed 2-D? Maybe not, the pope is never this dumb!

I weep for my franchise. I've seen milder 2-D Sonic fanboys.

People thought this about Metroid. Metroid Prime rocked. People were appeased. Sonic went into 3D with 3D Blast. It sucked ass. People were scared when we were bombarded by 3D Sonic game after 3D Sonic game. Remember Sonic R, Sonic Jam, Sonic Shuffle...?

...Everyone knows by now Sega was a) not serious about those titles and b) Not truly the 3-D games everyone was waiting for. And hell, Sonic Shuffle was supposed to be the next MARIO PARTY, not some true 3-D Sonic game!

Slowest speed-wise...? Possibly(again, Sonic Shuffle?). Slowest as in it's just boring and drags on? Not hardly.

I would beg to differ. I mean you said it yourself JUST A FEW SENTENCES AGO: IT SUCKED ASS.

Also, I believe Healds point was that you wanted him to prove an OPINION. Which is IMPOSSIBLE you ignorant douche. Sorry to go into insults(not really) but if it wasn't painfully obvious, you're avoiding the true fact at hand: You told Heald to prove an opinion. When caught, you strung together some weak little counter-point, hoping to get the last word in.

*Looks up, sees connection* DAMMIT. :dead:

I recant my stupid ass statements with Heald. What I WANTED him to do was to ask why he HAD that opinion.

But my recent reply concerns not him. You're still reeeking of 2-D fanboy, Mr. Muffin Man, as much as you argue that you're not. I don't need black smoke to tell me that.

PNT510

18th April 2005, 10:24 PM

Why do you keep calling him a 2D fanboy? Are you fucking retarded, just because he liked the old games and doesn't like the new ones doesn't make him a fanboy.

Legends-Kuja

19th April 2005, 04:31 AM

^He wouldn't be and ISN'T, but with statements regarding 3-D Sonic as THE FAILURE THAT ENDED DREAMCAST, he's starting to SOUND LIKE ONE.

Edit: You know what? I'm fed up of this argument. It's going nowhere fast, and it's obvious I can't convince anyone that this game won't spell the end of the Sonic franchise, regardless of this game's current suckiness level. I'm standing down now before this topic gets shut down and someone (most likely me) gets banned.

Drago

19th April 2005, 06:48 AM

Originally posted by Legends-Kuja:
^He wouldn't be and ISN'T, but with statements regarding 3-D Sonic as THE FAILURE THAT ENDED DREAMCAST, he's starting to SOUND LIKE ONE.

Edit: You know what? I'm fed up of this argument. It's going nowhere fast, and it's obvious I can't convince anyone that this game won't spell the end of the Sonic franchise, regardless of this game's current suckiness level. I'm standing down now before this topic gets shut down and someone (most likely me) gets banned.

Strange thing is, I don't recall anyone saying this would kill the Sonic franchise. Only thing I heard was that this game would suck, because it looks like it will suck. Logical analysis, really. I could be mistaken though, I don't want to search through 9 pages for it. And hey, you said you were quitting back on page 7.
Frankly, I feel sorry for GLY. He like SO got ignored back there. Oh and Heald, kickass picture. :yes:

On an ever so slightly related note, anyone heard anything new about our beloved little game? Any exciting new additions? A machete, perhaps?

The Muffin Man

19th April 2005, 12:20 PM

^He wouldn't be and ISN'T, but with statements regarding 3-D Sonic as THE FAILURE THAT ENDED DREAMCAST, he's starting to SOUND LIKE ONE.
I've played many Dreamcast games. Many of them were amazing.
Sonic Adventure was not.
Coincidence?

Edit: You know what? I'm fed up of this argument. It's going nowhere fast, and it's obvious I can't convince anyone that this game won't spell the end of the Sonic franchise, regardless of this game's current suckiness level. I'm standing down now before this topic gets shut down and someone (most likely me) gets banned.
"I can't argue with Pants telling me to stop calling TMM a fanboy so I quit. If I can't label him unfairly, I don't want to bother."

How am I a 2D Fanboy when a bunch of shitty Sonic titles are written off as "Not serious"? "Those crappy spinoffs aren't serious. No one expected them to be amazing" which is why we're up to our 7th Mario Party(6 main, one on GBA). Because Mario Party wasn't serious. So it, of course, will never succeed.

I would beg to differ. I mean you said it yourself JUST A FEW SENTENCES AGO: IT SUCKED ASS.
I'm talking about 3D Blast. It wasn't the worst. If it didn't have that annoying fetch-quest it might be playable.

But my recent reply concerns not him. You're still reeeking of 2-D fanboy, Mr. Muffin Man, as much as you argue that you're not. I don't need black smoke to tell me that.
"I'm wrong, so I won't bother with Heald."
You can call me a 2D fanboy all you want. I like to call myself "Someone who actually grew up with Sonic."

Christ, you'd cry if I started calling you an 11 yr old who thinks guns are "mad phat sweet yo" because all you do is talk about "Sonic fans over 12 are 2D fanboys".

Kris

25th April 2005, 06:15 PM

Ive looked at this and think it looks pretty cool. I always really like sonic and tails and knuckles (etc) so am hoping it will live up to them

Legends-Kuja

27th April 2005, 04:23 PM

^The older Sonic fans here are going to roast you for that one.

As much as I risk high level mockery for posting in this topic, I had to bring this magazine interview to light. Not to mention it's pretty funny, too. I copied this big thing from SonicFanatic over at the Sonic Foundation so I didn't have to parse all those URLS:

Okay, folks - today saw the release of Nintendo Official Magazine #153, a Shadow the Hedgehog special. Much news has been released here. As usual, I have the scans (hotlink at your own PERIL):

Cover (http://www.mthomson.co.uk/images_external/temp/article_2005-04_NOM_cover.jpg)
Contents Page (http://www.mthomson.co.uk/images_external/temp/article_2005-04_NOM_contents.jpg)
Page 1 double-spread (http://www.mthomson.co.uk/images_external/temp/article_2005-04_NOM_page01-02.jpg)
Page 3 (http://www.mthomson.co.uk/images_external/temp/article_2005-04_NOM_page03.jpg)
Page 4 (http://www.mthomson.co.uk/images_external/temp/article_2005-04_NOM_page04.jpg)
Page 5 (http://www.mthomson.co.uk/images_external/temp/article_2005-04_NOM_page05.jpg)
Page 6 (http://www.mthomson.co.uk/images_external/temp/article_2005-04_NOM_page06.jpg)
Page 7 (http://www.mthomson.co.uk/images_external/temp/article_2005-04_NOM_page07.jpg)
Page 8 (http://www.mthomson.co.uk/images_external/temp/article_2005-04_NOM_page08.jpg)
Page 9 double spread (Iizuka-san interview) (http://www.mthomson.co.uk/images_external/temp/article_2005-04_NOM_page09-10.jpg)

And some sexy poster character art:
Poster 1 (http://www.mthomson.co.uk/images_external/temp/article_2005-04_NOM_poster01.jpg)
Poster 2 (http://www.mthomson.co.uk/images_external/temp/article_2005-04_NOM_poster02.jpg)

Now, some highlights to be drawn from all this:
-Page 4 has shots of the enemies, and one of the bosses, apparently - a strange cycloptic creature. Could this be an alien invasion of some sort? They sure as hell aren't 'mobians'.
-It has been revealed that the gun ISN'T crucial to the gameplay. In perhaps a very wise move, Sonic Team have made this game playable by traditional Sonic means - spin dashes can take the place of laser blasts.
- The guns are also pretty varied - from pistols to alser blasters and rocket launchers - playing with these should be fun, if we can get over the image of Shadow with a bazooka.
- The environments are largely destructable - buildings can be destroyed etc. adding a new game mechanic to be sure (page 5).
- As seen on page 4, Shadow can jump inside cannons and lay down some serious fire on ships and large enemies, as well as being able to use vehicles like cars and, on page 8, animals.
-Finally, contrary to my own beliefs, to be sure, Iizuka-san (head of Sonic Team USA, interviewed on page 9) has hinted at multiple platforms when asked about Gamecube-exclusive content. "...our ultimate goal is to create a seamless game experience with Shadow The Hedgehog of all consumers no matter what platform they own."

So, uh, yeah.

My hope for this game has gone up 0.00000000000007 percent.

The Muffin Man

27th April 2005, 04:29 PM

^The older Sonic fans here are going to roast you for that one.

Yeah look at us flame the hell out of her for an opinion.

Oh wait, she didn't call us "2D fanboys" for prefering Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

As much as I risk high level mockery for posting in this topic, I had to bring this magazine interview to light. Not to mention it's pretty funny, too. I copied this big thing from SonicFanatic over at the Sonic Foundation so I didn't have to parse all those URLS:

My hope for this game has gone up 0.00000000000007 percent.

Still not for me.

Greyfox

28th April 2005, 05:53 PM

I liked Sonic Adventure ;_;

Not as good as the classic adventures, but not utter crap like the three-dee sequals were.

But regardless, in honor of Shadow the Hedgehog:

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/050314.jpg

Legends-Kuja

29th April 2005, 04:31 AM

^THE MOST VICIOUSLY OVERPLAYED COMIC EVER. Please stop using it.

And Muffin Man, you seem to misinterpret me... I never said you're a 2-D fanboy because you preferred 3&K. And I didn't see that same mercy against Fat man with a monkey.

The Muffin Man

29th April 2005, 08:03 AM

^THE MOST VICIOUSLY OVERPLAYED COMIC EVER. Please stop using it.
GEE KIND OF LIKE YOUR "YOU'RE A 2D FANBOY" CRAP?

And Muffin Man, you seem to misinterpret me... I never said you're a 2-D fanboy because you preferred 3&K. And I didn't see that same mercy against Fat man with a monkey.
You know, if you knew how Jamey(FMWAM) and I were close friends you'd probably take your shoe off. I can't imagine rubber tastes too great.

PNT510

29th April 2005, 11:59 AM

I thought you were done arguing Legends-Kuja?

Legends-Kuja

29th April 2005, 01:43 PM

Not arguing, simply telling MM where he was wrong.

And I wonder how this game will do at E3

The Muffin Man

29th April 2005, 01:54 PM

Not arguing, simply telling MM where he was wrong.

And I wonder how this game will do at E3

Yet I am not wrong. My opinion differs from yours.

And you are insisting I am indeed wrong.

Hence, arguing.

Legends-Kuja

29th April 2005, 02:29 PM

I wasn't talking about your opinion about Shadow. The place where you were wrong is that you said that I called you a 2-D fanboy because you preferred S3&K. This is not true.

The Muffin Man

29th April 2005, 02:46 PM

I wasn't talking about your opinion about Shadow. The place where you were wrong is that you said that I called you a 2-D fanboy because you preferred S3&K. This is not true.

You called me a 2D fanboy.

I prefer S3&K.

You said "2D Fanboys who think S3&K is the best."

2 + 2 doesn't equal 5.

Legends-Kuja

1st May 2005, 03:43 PM

^I may have siad that, but I was not refferring to you.

I called *you* a 2-D fanboy because you blamed the fall of the dreamcast on the 3-D Sonics.

The Muffin Man

1st May 2005, 07:27 PM

^I may have siad that, but I was not refferring to you.

I called *you* a 2-D fanboy because you blamed the fall of the dreamcast on the 3-D Sonics.

So a Sega console without Sonic would be...?

PNT510

1st May 2005, 10:30 PM

So a Sega console without Sonic would be...?

A failed console.

Legends-Kuja

21st May 2005, 11:02 AM

I don't remember Sonic not counting on the DC. He had success there.

But enough about that, I bring something new about the game... someone who actually played it!

Picked this up off of Gamefaqs, courtesy of janucheese:

someone at the Sonic HQ boards says he got to play 3 levels worth of this game in the demo at E3. this is what he had to say about it:

Well, for what it's worth, I've PLAYED the game (at E3). Three levels actually, and I must say that it was quite fun. MUCH better then heroes. The ability to pick up weapons is hella sweet. It adds depth and variety to the game-play, but is far from necessary for the Sonic Purists amongst us. If you want to just run non-stop, there's plenty of occasions for that too.

The violence is far from gratuitous. All the GUN soldiers are wearing padding of some sort, and they merely "fall down" when attacked. Their "demise" is the same whether Shadow blasts them with a rifle, kicks them in the head, just simply spin-dashes them.

The Good VS Evil thing is set up like this:

As you play a level, you have three possible mission goals.

1. Help Black Arms do something nefarious. (Aka: Kill GUN soldiers)
2. Simply finish the level (and usually snatch an Emerald)
3. Help a Sonic character fight the aliens. (Be it Sonic or Eggman --both showed up)

Honestly, those three mission goals set up for a lot a fun, because completing # 1 or 3 means being VERY careful about who you attack.And this:

JC: i've got a question. i know that you've just played a demo, but since you already say that it's much better than Heroes, then how do you compare the demo/what you've seen with the Adventure series? do you feel that it's better? how about with Sonic games in general? does it do justice to the Sonic name so far?

SG: Hmmm.... I'd say that if the story and overall game is polished correctly, it could end up sitting pretty close to the Adventure titles. It had all the diverse styles available in the adventure series, but this time, it's all built into a single character in speed based levels. I will say this, I was able to turn the bloody camera around without it fighting me tooth and nail.

It does feel amazingly Sonic-like. More then Heroes, really. Just imagine a Sonic game where you had hundreds of different possible attacks besides spinning. The environments are grittier and darker then usual, but they are still the sort of twisting, turning fantasy courses you'd expect from a Sonic Title. Shadow was also very well animated, if not a little too elastic.

Unfortunately, the pits of doom are still lurking around some corners, but by now they themselves have become a staple of the series. This game is shaping up to be better.

Misty

22nd May 2005, 08:17 AM

Anyone seen the Sonic Rush (DS) previews?

Legends-Kuja

22nd May 2005, 09:58 AM

Yes, and quite frankly they're awesome. It looks like the fastest 2-D Sonic yet.

Metallix

29th May 2005, 12:36 AM

Fuck that, I just want Sonic Gems Collection. (Mainly for Sonic the Fighters, I already have Sonic CD and Sonic R)

Legends-Kuja

16th November 2005, 09:44 PM

I've returned (not that anyone noticed or cared I was gone).

Necromancy! Plus more news.

The game is out (since yesterday in fact) and opinions on this game have changed DRAMATICALLY. Most everyone's raving on how cool the experience is, although there are are a few who either claim it sucks because a) they're still 2-D fanboys or b)they ignored Shadow's story. People who were like b are IMHO, fools who don't need to play it in the first place.

I'll be renting it this weekend. I'll tell you all about it.

Razola

17th November 2005, 02:17 PM

Gamerankings says you're full of shit. It's currently at a 40% average with reviewers.

SURPRISE SURPRISE

Heald

17th November 2005, 03:23 PM

I love how you say everyone who says this game, or every other 3D Sonic game, is crap, is a 2D fanboy. Have you even stopped to think that you're in the minority and these games actually suck?

Plus, insulting everyone who disagrees with you is exactly what Jack Thompson does (he says people have learning difficulties and Tourette's if they disagree with him).

Razola

17th November 2005, 06:22 PM

I invite my fellow 2D fanboys to purchase Sonic Rush for Nintendo DS. We'll play it at our next meeting, right before we all have a communal jerk to our copies of Sonic 3.

Craig

17th November 2005, 08:14 PM

3D sonic games like Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 suck? blasphemy!

Sonic Heroes did suck ass quit a bit.

Legends-Kuja

17th November 2005, 11:18 PM

Gamerankings says you're full of shit. It's currently at a 40% average with reviewers.

SURPRISE SURPRISE

That would be the site reviewers. Most of the common game players like it (user review rating at IGN averages at 9.0). But then again, most of them attend Gamefaqs, so that doesn't count as much.

I love how you say everyone who says this game, or every other 3D Sonic game, is crap, is a 2D fanboy. Have you even stopped to think that you're in the minority and these games actually suck?

Plus, insulting everyone who disagrees with you is exactly what Jack Thompson does (he says people have learning difficulties and Tourette's if they disagree with him).

... misinterpret yet again. I said people who weren't looking to see Shadow's story didn't need to play it in the first place. And many who gave it low scores anyway were already despising the idea before they went in.

I invite my fellow 2D fanboys to purchase Sonic Rush for Nintendo DS. We'll play it at our next meeting, right before we all have a communal jerk to our copies of Sonic 3.

Hey, I got to play it. I liked it. But once again, Sega' lost touch on how to make bosses that don't suck. :'D I mean come on, I only played it for 10 minutes and I beat the three I played without losing rings (2, 5, and 7).

Where's the challenging bosses of 3&K? The second half of advance 3 (ignoring Final/Extra bosses)?

...oy, I watched Shadow in action, and I'm still going to give it a weekend run before I call judgment.

Razola

18th November 2005, 02:55 AM

That would be the site reviewers. Most of the common game players like it (user review rating at IGN averages at 9.0). But then again, most of them attend Gamefaqs, so that doesn't count as much.EA is a thriving company.

Fuck common game players.

EDIT: Just got a 4.9 on IGN. Now, I generally hate IGN's reviews, but usually this is when they give games I love a 7 or so and spew bullshit. I'm going to go out on a limb and say they rarely, if ever, have called a game I have even tolerated shit.

Legends-Kuja

20th November 2005, 02:04 PM

Yeah guys, not that you really care, but I played the game.

...And I beat it in full. Here's my verdict.

If it's only one thing, it's better than Sonic Heroes, that much I'm certain. Another surefire thing is that this game takes some serious getting used to. If you don't, you'll suck at this game for all eternity and loathe it (I bet that's why IGN gave it a 4.9... they came in hating it and not able to get used to it.) Gunplay could use a bit of tweaking: there was variety in weapons but not so much in use. With the exception of some special instances, it didn't really matter what weapon you chose to do your enemy in with.

Something I didn't like was the lack of alliance... if you were on the side of evil, his minions still moved in to kill you. DUDE WHAT THE HELL. WHY CAN'T THEY HELP YOU OUT. :(

There are some funny moments. Eggman is an endless round of comedy, especially his Egg Dealer ("W-wait! Abort Launch!") And yes, Sonic IS crazy. I don't know why the hell he was so excited to tear Black Bull (a boss) a new one.

Speaking of bosses, they're a bit more sparse in this game. Sure, some were creative, but dude, how come more than half of them were mushed in the end of each round? It was pretty sad to see that 4 times out of the game, I had to blow away that damnable Egg Dealer YET AGAIN, even if he was funny. Difficulty was relatively equal to that of Heroes... hard on the first try, but once you learn tricks to the game it's possible to kill half of them under 30 seconds.

Music-wise, also better than Heroes. Six vocal tracks, plus level and boss tunes. Black Bull has the best boss theme in the entire game :'D. Some tracks are cool (Black Comet, Egg Dealer) others are forgettable (how did Glyphic Canyon go again?) and a few are REAL ANNOYING STINKERS (Final Haunt, I'm looking at YOU.)

Some of the "Kill the machine before it gets away" missions are HELL and the hardest in the game. There's one level that I won't even touch because I can't find the last of them (name and description of level withheld due to spoilers). Sega needs to focus on how to make things DIFFICULT without FRUSTRATION (e.g, figuring out the bosses.).

Oy, overall, it's a decent experience. I give it a 7/10, or in Gamefaqs terms BETTER THAN HEROES/10.

To recap:

The Good:
-Better than Heroes
-Decent gameplay
-The bosses are cool

The bad:
-Bosses are also sparse, and easy to kill after repeated playthroughs
-Frustrating moments (like when Tails steals a kill, forcing you to use a homing attack to your death and lose a good 300/400 rings ARRRGGGHHH)
-Robotnik is a failure and a sad man.

The :'D:
-Black Bull has the best boss theme.
-Robotnik is a failure and a sad man.
-Sonic is a crazy mofo.

Razola

20th November 2005, 09:31 PM

I get it now. Sega has kept the camera angle and gameplay subpar so we can get use to it.

It's the same shit as before, only with an even crappier wrapping. This isn't Sonic any more. Why the fuck does a game that is based on fast characters put them in cars/motorcycles?

I'm not wasting 50 bucks on a reminder at how my favorite franchise is dead on consoles.

Drago

21st November 2005, 02:05 AM

Then, as if by magic, I recalled that Sonic Rush was a day closer. And I laughed my simple, 2D laugh.

In any event, I've gotta conclude that console Sonic is, at least for one more game, dead in the water. If I got this, it would no doubt be the same story as previous games; a game I would hastily buy, then force myself to enjoy. I know that you've got a more optimistic outlook than the rest of us Legends, but it just seems to me as though that's what you've had to do. Force yourself to enjoy the game. To tolerate it, at least.

But really, if the best we can say about a game is that it's better than the previous game (not saying much), it's indicative that the Hedgehog franchise ain't got no life in 3D. I got sick of accepting subpar as the standard.

Legends-Kuja

21st November 2005, 08:01 PM

In any event, I've gotta conclude that console Sonic is, at least for one more game, dead in the water. If I got this, it would no doubt be the same story as previous games; a game I would hastily buy, then force myself to enjoy. I know that you've got a more optimistic outlook than the rest of us Legends, but it just seems to me as though that's what you've had to do. Force yourself to enjoy the game. To tolerate it, at least.

But really, if the best we can say about a game is that it's better than the previous game (not saying much), it's indicative that the Hedgehog franchise ain't got no life in 3D. I got sick of accepting subpar as the standard.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm afraid the bolded line is bullshit.

I did not force myself to like this game. I took it for what it was to me: decent at best, a frustration at worst.

And some say Sonic doesn't translate well into 3-D, but then again these same complaints dredge up with every 3-D Sonic game. Probably because a)in other people's opinions, they suck. and b)it doesn't play like 2-D Sonic.

But I have to ask... how could you get a 3-D Sonic to play like a 2-D one without getting old fast?