Hot Coffee

[Heald]

A few days old but meh.

If you haven't heard already, some cool kid made a mod for GTA that unlocks hidden sex scenes. The reaction by the politicians, the media and the retailers has been both amusing and yet frighteningly over-the-top.

Simply put, the politicians have condemned the game and have launched full investigations on how 'pornographic material could have gotten into the hands of children' (actual quote from Hillary Clinton). The media is having a field day condemning video games in general and the retailers are removing it from their shelves. The rating has been moved from M to AO, which basically means the age-rating has been moved from 17 to 18.

Is this actually the state of American society today? Where a year's difference can determine how mature someone is? You're living a pipe dream if you think 17-year olds are bright-faced cherubs who should be free from sin, whereas 18-year olds are all porn-watching sickos.

When I went to America, I stayed with a 17-year old. Here, in the UK, adults don't really care whether anyone over 15 smokes, drinks or watches porno. I noticed how his parents were incredibly strict about smoking and alcohol. I was like 'Jesus Christ, cut the umbilical chord'.

Anyway, comments.

[Roy Karrde]

I just like to look at the good news of this and hope that this screws Hillary Clinton in 08. Anyway Political views aside the only way for "Kids" to get their hands on this, would be going onto the net and either getting the cheat codes and doing the long process of putting them in, or downloading the mod. Now any child that goes through THAT long of a process could most easily enter a free porno site, so to say that this game and this game only is opening innocent kids up to porno that they wouldn't be able to get to before hand is just crazy man. Anyway time to buy Rockstar and Take Two stocks before GTA PSP comes out becuase their stocks are going to keep sinking until something big happens for them that isn't negative.

[Thy]

I don't really care about the rating or politics. Yes, I thought the Mature rating was tame for the game but I don't think it should have given a AO rating. Publishers and shops should do what they did for Conker's Bad Fur Day. The box said not to sell to minors. Rental companies and shops required a parent there and explained the rating system. If the parent doesn't know about the rating system, then the game industry needs to erase this bad image by educating parents. Plus, companies aren't going to be happy since they'll lose money because of this. Just educate people. One little thing and hopefully the problem is done and over with.

As for the game itself, who in there right mind at Rockstar wanted to see their characters have sex. Clothed even. It's not necessary and they knew it wouldn't fit the M rating. Sure for a game like The Sims, animated sex is tasteful (considering you're making a baby) and even comical. But when you have full on sex, it's just wrong. Even the hookers were pushing it.

Of course I mention the The Sims and someone is already going after them. 1. They don't even call it sex. 2. If you remove the blur, they're Barbie and Ken. 3. Even the nude skins and anatomically correct meshes aren't part of the code. The code for Hot Coffee was built in to all three versions of SA by some pervert at Rockstar.

I don't see any similarities to The Sims and SA. at least the one good thing to come out of this is that parent's will hopefully know what is out there and can make intelligent choices in regards to their kids. At least kids who don't yet know truth from fiction in video games.

[PNT510]

Personally I think Rockstar should sue everyone who unlocked the mini-game because it's a violation of the User End Agreement to access it.

[Starry Might]

I've been following this for the past few days, and I think that all the chaos - and the potential harm that could befall the entire industry - that's resulted from this single mod is frightening, to say the least.:(

Futhermore, it seems that custom user-created content in games might go the way of the dodo bird if game ratings are indeed affected by modifications and custom content:

http://www.beyondunreal.com/daedalus/singlepost.php?id=8549

(I became a member of the BeyondUnreal boards recently, and you can see my reply to that news post in there, if you wish).

I think that the ESRB should take the same approach towards custom content that they do for online parts of games. Games with online play have a ESRB disclaimer saying "Game Experience May Change During Online Play". They should create a disclaimer for custom content along the lines of "User-Created Content May Change Game Experience", too.


Is this actually the state of American society today? Where a year's difference can determine how mature someone is? You're living a pipe dream if you think 17-year olds are bright-faced cherubs who should be free from sin, whereas 18-year olds are all porn-watching sickos.
To be perfectly honest, I find the one-year gap between the "Mature" and "Adults-Only" ratings to be quite weird, myself.

[Razola]

Rockstar is stupid for leaving the code in, and the ESRB is stupid for such a kneejerk reaction.

Besides not being easily accessed, it's also tamer than stuff in other M games. By their standards, BMXXX should be AO.

EDIT: Does this apply to the X-Box version? I was going to buy a cheap copy this fall, damn it.

[fat man with a monkey]

Considering that it's not available through gameplay, and the ESRB rates on gameplay, I think the game's rating should stay. I think game developers hsould fall back on the tried and true "special features unrated" thing that DVD makers do.

[Razola]

It doesn't matter; hot coffee wasn't explicit enough to earn an AO rating in the first place.

[The Muffin Man]

It doesn't matter; hot coffee wasn't explicit enough to earn an AO rating in the first place.


Isn't that the "mini-game" where the blanket was removed via a code and there was just dismembered arms and legs where the blanket ended?

[Razola]

There is nudity, apparently, but you have to use an outside (and unofficial) source to unlock. In other words, a mod/patch on the PC version or Action Replay on the PS2 version.

This shows how fucked up our moral priorities are in the US, and it boggles my mind. There should NOT be any outcry over this AT ALL. It's a game where you shoot civilians and law enforcement, rob places, and generally make life bad for other people. Do you honestly think you are just going to fuck a seventeen year old because of some light nudity? If so, you are insane. Shit, the former he probably hasn't even SEEN, unlike the latter.

[fat man with a monkey]

I found a video of the hot coffee mod, and I think it warrants an AO rating, but that's just me.

[PNT510]

The fact is the game shouldn't be rated on the Hot Coffee mod. That's like saying a movie should be rated by the stuff that lies on the cutting room floor.

[Heald]

The fact is the game shouldn't be rated on the Hot Coffee mod. That's like saying a movie should be rated by the stuff that lies on the cutting room floor.
Or, more appropriately, it is like rating a movie by stuff that was cut out, only for some bozo, who broke into the cutting room and stole the cuts, to start replicating the cut out stuff and hand it out to people free of charge without the consent of the movie-makers.

Either way, while it was foolish for Rockstar to leave in the code that allowed the Hot Coffee mod to come about, the fact of the matter is you need to go against Rockstar's User End Agreement and therefore forfeit your right to play the game to access the material.

[Chris]

Or, more appropriately, it is like rating a movie by stuff that was cut out, only for some bozo, who broke into the cutting room and stole the cuts, to start replicating the cut out stuff and hand it out to people free of charge without the consent of the movie-makers.

I know the guys who wrote the mod (there were three in total), and they're definitely not bozos. They didn't steal anything - they allowed access to something that was always there from the beginning. The media involvement in this is also completely fucking pathetic. One of the modders has received regular phone calls, at home, from some jackass journalist who had obtained his contact details from a Whois lookup on his domain name. I hope he decides to prosecute for misuse of Whois records.

The violation of the EULA is difficult to handle though. On one hand, modifying the game's code is against the EULA, but at the same time R* haven't made any effort to dissuade people from breaking it - in fact they seem to encourage it sometimes.

Let's face it - one of the biggest reasons for buying any Renderware-based GTA game is the mind-numbing array of mods available. Actively seeking/destroying people who create mods for the games is probably the worst thing that R* or Take Two could do and would definitely damage sales - something that an AO rating is unlikely to do. People who want to play the game will do so regardless of its classification, because chances are that they're either old enough to buy it anyway or know someone who will get it for them.

[Heald]

I know the guys who wrote the mod (there were three in total), and they're definitely not bozos. They didn't steal anything - they allowed access to something that was always there from the beginning.The stealing part was just an analogy. What is true, however, is that they broke into the code itself without and against Rockstar's permission. Maybe a more appropriate analogy is that Rockstar kept the hidden content behind a locked door; these modders made a key without Rockstar's permission and then after seeing what was inside, they decided to make more keys and give them out.

Argh, I'm through with analogies. Lets just say that the modders are more at fault here than Rockstar.

[Chris]

Argh, I'm through with analogies. Lets just say that the modders are more at fault here than Rockstar.


Yeah, I'm probably willing to agree with that. Still, I don't think SA deserved to be reclassified because of this, much less subjected to a long-winded and pointless federal investigation beforehand...

[VanirElf]

I like europpean people, y'all are just so progressive about stuff.

[Razola]

I like europpean people, y'all are just so progressive about stuff.

You realize Europe is an entire continent, right?

One hell of a generalization you made there...

[SupremeChampion]

[i]man, people overreact way too much these days. i mean, i can understand people being upset, but to pull the game from the shelves and re-rate it? see, i always had a problem with this. some people don't understand that video games are just that, games. i mean, i don't see how they show us violence is fun or teach us how to kill. i mean, normal people realize it's just a game! anyway, like i said people got way to caught up with this whole thing. such a big deal shouldn't be made out of video game porn.

~The Italian Stallion