Building my Own Computer

[Master Kirby]

I am planning on building a computer, and would like some advice.

First, here is some background.

In the past, I have always had Macintosh/Apple computers at home because that is what my Dad had, we liked them better, and we didn't need to do anything with them for which you would need a PC. Our family computer was used mostly for typing, and internet browsing when we got access.

Since my high school switched over to the Windows platform, and later when I entered college, I have seen that there are some things for which you just can't use a Apple. I have managed fine so far at college my first three years by just using the computers in the computer labs when I needed to use a program that wasn't Mac compatible. I could convert any Apple Works files into RTF if I needed to type something on my G3 and send it to a PC, but for pretty much any Programming or applications used in my Labs, I had to use the Windows OS. If I am to buy a computer, because of the incompatibility of Apples with non-Apple computers, I will have to choose a Windows PC. Since I will be living farther off campus this year, it would be convenient to be able to work on things at home instead of being restricted by computer lab hours.

On to the Computer

As mentioned above, I am planning on building a computer, and would like some advice on a few things. I know about the hardware of computers, but since I've been using Macs, which are already assembled, I haven't had to worry about all kinds of 3rd party components and gaming requirements. I would like to build the computer myself to save money. I would use it for typing and programming, but would like to be able to play current games also. I am more of a fan of RTS than 1st person Shooters. I would like to be able to play Age of Empires 3 when it comes out. I would like to try to get a fairly good quality computer for around or under $700. I have been looking at an article on Ars Technica, and it looks possible. (BTW, I already have a VGA Monitor, Speakers, and Headphones.) http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/system-guide-200506.ars (http://"Ars Technica")
I would probably like something between their Budget Box and "Hot Rod".

- What is better, a Pentium 4 or AMD Athlon 64? How do they compare since their GHz ratings different compared to their power? Is an AMD Athlon 64 3000+ comparable to a P4 3GHz? I was looking at the AMDs, and it looks like the price differences rise more steeply between models, the higher above the 3000+ you get. I would probably want to get something at least as powerful as the above mentioned P4 and AMD.

-I was thinking of getting 1Gb of RAM. How quickly does Win. XP use up RAM? How many applications would you have to have open at a time to use 1 Gb? Would I be better off only getting 768Mb, if it isn't needed that much?

-How much of a difference does a sound card make over having sound integrated into the motherboard? I usually only use headphones, and that is mainly for MP3s and game sound effects.

-What kind of graphics/video card would be recommended? I am just a casual gamer since I usually just use a game console when I want to play Video games. I would like to be able to play some newer RTS games. I heard that Empire Earth is good, and I've played AOE, so I would like to be able to play AOE 3 when it comes out. You wouldn't need as high quality a graphics card for RTS games as Shooters would you? Is PCI-Express than the AGP that used to be used for PCs?

-Do you know of any free or cheap legal graphics programs for XP that would be comparable to the Paint program for Apple Works 6 (for those of you that also have used Apples)? If I moved to the Windows platform, I would like to have something better than MSPaint if I want to do some graphical editing (though I probably don't need something as extravagant or expensive as Photoshop).

-Do you know where I could find a good case that isn't too expensive, but still looks nice, has good expandability, and front USB and Headphone ports?

I would appreciate any tips about building a computer, or just Windows computers in general, since I am tryint to learn as much as I can. If you know a good place to get good deals on parts online, post a link.

[fat man with a monkey]

- I am a personal fan of the P4 Northwood core, as the other P4 cores can run very hot. I'd take it over an AMD, and to be honest, you probably don't need a 64-bit chip. Here are some comparison benchmarks I dug up through about 30 seconds of googling http://www.digital-daily.com/cpu/athlon64fx-p4ee/index03.htm

-I run EVE, winamp, and gaim at the same time just fine on 768 megs, with no problems in any of them. I'd say go for the gig, as games get better and better and need more ram, but if it's a cost problem, just go with the 768.

-If you're using headphones, my honest opinion is to not waste the money.

-I don't really know what kind to recommend, depends on if you're going AGP, PCI, or PCI-E, but an RTS can tax the GPU just as much as any shooter.

-The gimp- http://www.gimp.org/ Takes a bit of getting used to, but after getting used to it, I have most of hte functionality of PSP or PS.

-no ;o

[kainashi]

- go with the athlon 64. it's a lot faster, better in games, plus you'll be prepared for the future. there's going to be a huge push for 64 bit.

- 1gb will be the norm soon enough so go with that. you can have plenty of programs open. xp handles memory decently.

- there's a big difference in sound between onboard and a higher-end sound card but if you're only doing those two things, onboard should be fine.

- for a graphics card, i reccomend the geforce 6600 gt. it's awesome for it's price. go pci-express if you're going to be using this computer for a few years into the future. otherwise, agp is fine.

- like jamey said, gimp is decent. i don't really like it myself though. another good one is paint.net (http://www.eecs.wsu.edu/paint.net/). have hardly used it myself but i've heard great things about it.

- just look around on newegg and the other sites for a case you like that's cheap, etc. the antec sonata (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129127) is one i highly recommend though. $84 though. don't know if that's cheap to you or not.

[Master Kirby]

-Thanks for the comments. It looks like one likes AMD, and one likes P4. This is why I posted. Most computers I have used at school are P4s, but I have heard good things about AMDs. I just don't have any personal experience to be able to tell which is better since I have been using Macs all my life.

-I will probably get 1 Gig of RAM so that I will be prepared for most things.

-I looked a little at Gimp, and it looks nice. I would just have to get used to anything new I use.

-When you buy a CPU, does the heatsink/fan usually come with it? Do you need a heat-transfering glue to fix the heatsink to the CPU, and is that usually done before or after the CPU is put into the motherboard?

-When looking at different Cases, I have noticed that there are different power supplies(300,350,400... Watt). What is the difference? do some motherboards require more power? Or do all motherboards use the same power connections, but different supplies have more connections to power CD/ZIP/DVD/HDD/floppy drives? Do cases usually come with the screws to connect the motherboard, or do they come with the motherboard?

-Is there a website that shows step by step how to build a computer, for if I may be forgetting a step?

[Dark Scizor]

- I am a personal fan of the P4 Northwood core, as the other P4 cores can run very hot. I'd take it over an AMD, and to be honest, you probably don't need a 64-bit chip. Here are some comparison benchmarks I dug up through about 30 seconds of googling


Northwood's are kinda hard to find nowadays, well, I can't find any at least. You're right about Prescott cores running hot though (they're a bastard when it comes to cooling).



-When you buy a CPU, does the heatsink/fan usually come with it? Do you need a heat-transfering glue to fix the heatsink to the CPU, and is that usually done before or after the CPU is put into the motherboard?

Unless it's an OEM processor, it should come with the HSF. TIM should be supplied with the processor, this isn't really glue though, it's used so that the processor can dissipate heat into the Heatsink fan with ease. Reference HSF's are usually quite noisy, so if you want some peace and quiet, do a little research into quiet but good heatsink fans.



-When looking at different Cases, I have noticed that there are different power supplies(300,350,400... Watt). What is the difference? do some motherboards require more power? Or do all motherboards use the same power connections, but different supplies have more connections to power CD/ZIP/DVD/HDD/floppy drives? Do cases usually come with the screws to connect the motherboard, or do they come with the motherboard?

Normally powersupplies that come with cases are the suck. It doesn't really matter about the wattage (if the rails suck, then the PSU sucks). But if you go with Kainashi's suggestion of a 6600GT (I've got one and they don't disappoint, and by far the best band per buck card out there at the moment), then you should be looking at a PSU which is at least 350watts. Most CD/Zip/DVD/HDD/Floppy drives will all use the same type of Molex power connector. The case should come with everything you need to fix the motherboard to it with.

[Master Kirby]

I found that the Athlon 64 3200+ with the Venice core has a 1GHz FSB, 200 more than the norhtwood I think.

What are some good brands for RAM and Hard drives? I'm planning on getting 2 sticks of 512MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM (for Dual-channel use), and somewhere around a 160 GB HDD.

Do you know if there is a noticable speed difference between RAM with CAS latency 2 and 3?

What are some companies that make good quality cases and PSUs? Antec is good, but expensive. Know any others?

[Dark Scizor]

You can get Thermaltake and Coolermaster cases for quite cheap and they look nice.

Fortron/Sparkle/FSP make good PSU units, people tend to like their Blue Storm range quite a lot, or they seem to at least.

I don't think you should worry too much about latency timings on your RAM.

The Althon 64 you plan to get (I'm planning on getting the exact same one) would also help future proof your PC when fully 64bit native OS comes out :).

[Master Kirby]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all your ideas in building a computer. I have chosen everything I plan on buying, except for the keyboard ( I plan on seeing if I can find one cheap at Salvation Army before buying a new one) and the DVD+/-R drive. There shouldn't be any compatibility conflicts, but I thought I'd post my choices to see what you think.


Newegg
Case – Antec Solution SLK1650B Black Steel ATX Mini Tower Computer Case 350W Power Supply – Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129150 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129150)
CPU - AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz FSB 512KB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103535
HD - Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600JS 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive – OEM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144415
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144415)

ZipZoomFly
MB - EPOX EP-9NPA+ULTRA nForce4 Ultra Athlon 64(FX) Skt939 DDR ATX Motherboard w/Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/SATA II Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=246557&affiliate=pricegrabber

RAM - Corsair VS1GBKIT400 1GB Kit DDR400 PC3200 CAS2.5 Value Select Memory Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80098-21&affiliate=pricegrabber


Graphics Card - MSI GeForce 6600 GT NX6600GT-TD128E Video Card
http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=5002069/zip_code=17754

I have a CD and floppy drive. I have been looking at this Toshiba SD-R5372 Dual Layer DVD±RW Writer also.
http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=4117214
(http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=4117214)
I may get a Microsoft Intellimouse Blue at Walmart.

Any comments on compatibility would be welcome.

[Razola]

-Do you know of any free or cheap legal graphics programs for XP that would be comparable to the Paint program for Apple Works 6 (for those of you that also have used Apples)? If I moved to the Windows platform, I would like to have something better than MSPaint if I want to do some graphical editing (though I probably don't need something as extravagant or expensive as Photoshop). :pirate:

[Master Kirby]

ALL HANDS ON DECK! Pirates sited on the horizon! Load all cannons. We'll not be taken alive by those filth! They will soon be the ones flying the white flag.


__i__________________ / / XXXXX
/ __ |******** **** 0000 XXXX
/ / \ | *** ******* 00000 XXXX
---| | ----------------| ***** **** 000 \\\ ||| /------/
\__/ \ \ <AAAAYARGH!!! /
\___________|_|

[Dark Scizor]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all your ideas in building a computer. I have chosen everything I plan on buying, except for the keyboard ( I plan on seeing if I can find one cheap at Salvation Army before buying a new one) and the DVD+/-R drive. There shouldn't be any compatibility conflicts, but I thought I'd post my choices to see what you think.


Newegg
Case – Antec Solution SLK1650B Black Steel ATX Mini Tower Computer Case 350W Power Supply – Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129150 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811129150)
CPU - AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice 1GHz FSB 512KB L2 Cache Socket 939 Processor – Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103535
HD - Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600JS 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive – OEM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144415
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822144415)

ZipZoomFly
MB - EPOX EP-9NPA+ULTRA nForce4 Ultra Athlon 64(FX) Skt939 DDR ATX Motherboard w/Audio, Gigabit LAN, RAID/SATA II Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=246557&affiliate=pricegrabber

RAM - Corsair VS1GBKIT400 1GB Kit DDR400 PC3200 CAS2.5 Value Select Memory Retail
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80098-21&affiliate=pricegrabber


Graphics Card - MSI GeForce 6600 GT NX6600GT-TD128E Video Card
http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=5002069/zip_code=17754

I have a CD and floppy drive. I have been looking at this Toshiba SD-R5372 Dual Layer DVD±RW Writer also.
http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=4117214
(http://stores.tomshardware.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=4117214)
I may get a Microsoft Intellimouse Blue at Walmart.

Any comments on compatibility would be welcome.


Make sure you don't get a skimpy power supple either.

Something like this should do okay for a single 6600GT :)

http://www.axiontech.com/prdt.php?item=69541

[Master Kirby]

In response to your reply, Dark Scizor, this is a post I just made today on another message board.
http://www.macaddict.com/forums/topic/66909
(http://www.macaddict.com/forums/topic/66909)


What do you guys know about the power requirements of these components? The Antec case I bought has a 350 Watt power supply. Here -->http://www.antec.com/specs/SP350_spe.html

Do you know how much power is used up by a AMD 64 3200+, MSI Geforce 6600GT, a motherboard, a SATA 300 MB/s and ATA-100 hard drive, 1Gig of PC3200 DDR SDRAM, and a floppy and DVD drive? I have heard people mention that antec supplies are usually underrated on how much they can handle.

Do you think there would be any promlems from just using the 350 Watt PSU?

I emailed my configuration to Epox, and they recommended that I buy a 450Watt or higher PSU. I already ordered the Case with the 350W PSU, so do you think it will be fine, or do you think I will need to buy a more powerfull PSU?

[Dark Scizor]

This might help:

http://www.extreme.outervision.com/index.jsp

But as long as the railes on your PSU are fine, then it should be okay. Unfortunately I'm not much of a help in that department since I haven't put much attention into PSU rails. I'll ask on some other forums about that PSU later on today, or we can hope that Kainashi will post here and have a much better idea on it's suitablilty.

[Master Kirby]

Thanks Dark Scizor, That was a big help. I entered my configuration on that page and it came to a total of around 287 Watts. The Antec Smart Power 2.0 350 Watt PSU my case has should be enough. I'm glad someone took the time to make a page like that.

[MetalScyther]

The trick with PSU's is to get a reliable name. Most companies overrate their specs. An offbrand leetermax 500W power supply might only actually pump out 250W in most conditions, if that. What really matters is if your PSU is stable and how many amps are on the 12V rail.

I went with a Fortron 350W PSU for my stuff, and now I have some pretty intensive hardware. Fortron is one of the best names for PSUs, and they actually underrate their specs a bit since they know that a PSU isn't going to be working at 100% efficiency.

Antec is a pretty good name for PSU. You already found this out, but unless you are running like SLI and a whole bunch of awesome shit, you probably won't actually need more than 350W.

[Master Kirby]

Hi Guys
I got all my parts, and put them together to test that they work. I had installed an old CD drive I took out of an old Pentuim, and when I turned the computer on and tried to boot from a Windows XP disk to load the operating system, I got some problems. When I inserted the disk and hit Enter, as the screen told me to, the computer wouldn't recognize the disk and just told me to enter a bootable disk and hit Enter.

I looked up the CD-ROM drive (NEC CDR-272) and found that it is only a 4X drive. Can you even boot from an XP disk only using a 4X drive? I also tried using a NEC CDR-1900A CD-ROM drive (I think it is a 32x?) that I took out of a broken Pentium 2, and that drive didn't work either. This time I could hear the disk spinning, and it waited a little longer until it told me to try again, but it still didn't work. I think that computer was hit by lightning, but I don't know if that affected the CD drive or not.

I may just have to get a new drive.
I have been thinking of getting a new CD-RW drive that can also play DVDs. If it burns DVDs also that would be nice. What are some good DVD+/-RW drives that aren't too expensive? My case is black, so I would prefer one that has a black face, though that wouldn't be a deciding factor. I was looking here:

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_attrib.php/page_id=7/popup1%5B%5D=23:355/sortby=priceA/popup7%5B%5D=10:394

and the NEC ND-3540A Dual Layer DVD±RW Writer looks pretty nice. Do you know if it is any good, or do you know of any others that would be better and cheaper?

If you have a blank Hard drive, when you boot from the XP disk, is that when you would partition the HD, and then contine by loading the OS? Or do you have to use a DOS disk to Partition the drive first?


Also, I have an old WD 2GIG HD I took from another computer, and tried booting from that thinking that once I was in the windows environment, I could load XP onto my main, blank 160 GIG drive. When trying to boot from the 2Gb drive (which has Win 95) it said that HIMEM.SYS, or something like that, was missing. Is there a way to put that on a floppy and transfer it to the HD so I can boot from it again?

Actually as I think about it, I don't remember my motherboard saying it was compatible with Win 95. Would it still work, or could it mess something up?