What is reall the best Pokemon

[SilverMaster]

I believe that raikou is the best pokemon, because it is fast, powerful and my favourite.I thought though other people would disagree/strongly disagree. They might say Deoxys (i think thats how its spelt) or mew.

[Sceptile_Master]

No way. Batlle wise not preference wise Raikou isn't all the good. Mew is Okay but isn't amazing and everyone loves Dexoys power. But Groudon possibly is the best pokemon if used properly. I'll go into reason later. But Raikou is WAY off.

[Silv]

Well, all Pokemon included, I'd say Kyogre is overall the best. You have over 400 max Sp. Attk, 350 max Speed, with not only a STAB on water attacks, but rain to further support it, and make its Thunder 100% accurate. Just stick Ice Beam on it, and Ancient Power for Shedinja...and it's basically set.

Of course, there are always ways to counter every Pokemon. My Blaziken can beat any Kyogre with his Attack maxed out and his Endure/Salacc/Reversal strategy.

But no Pokemon is invincible, and Kyogre is best set.

In terms of non-legendaries, I'd have to go with either Slaking, Kingdra, or a Dragon Dancing Salamence.

[Austrian ViceMaster Alex]

The best is quite relative. For me the best Pokémon are Raichu because it's cuddly and looks cute surfing on its tail in Pokémon Colloseum. Then there's always good old Wheezing, I just love the underdogs.

Battlewise I'd say Kingdra is pretty tough and has quite a few resistances. But then I haven't played Ruby/Sapphire much so I don't know which Pokémon are hiding in that game which might be better. I've never met a Dexoys for example.

[SilverMaster]

Groundons ok, but hes just a beefed up version of charizard without wings. He's still easily KO by water pokemon, which take up alot of the pokedex. Mewtwo's probably the best battlewise (if not raikou) as pshchics only weaknesses are bug and dark, which there's not many of and those there are are weak.

Raichus a good one. Does the best pokemon have to be battle hardened, why not cuddly. Anyway, its not raichu as if you were to cuddle it it would paralyse you. Teddiursas more cuddly.

[Sceptile_Master]

SilverMaster do you have any idea how powerful a real Groudon is. It can even be stronger than the best water pokemon, kyogre. Once you have it sword danced and it's speed right up NOTHING can beat it. And I'm talking battlewise not preference wise. Charizard is almost compltely different than Groudon other than the fact they are both often used as physical sweepers. Ghost and steel is also strong against psychic. Mewtwo is kcik ass but isn't as good as it used to be. And Raikou is nowhere near the top battlewise. And that's a solid fact.

[Magmar]

I think SilverMaster's a bit young...
...but that's alright. Welcome!

Best pokemon? Besides I, Magmar, king of the umm... *pokes around a bit* well. I have to give credit to the intense versatility of Lapras, but I don't think it's the best Pokemon. I can't really say, but I do think Groudon is intense.

[SilverMaster]

You've made your point about groundon. Although its stats are exceptionally high and it has powerful moves (what moves does a 'fully trained powerful groundon'have by the way). a clever person would be able to exploit its weaknesses and beat it.Also, Deoxy has higher stats than groundon.

[Sceptile_Master]

Only a fire red deoxys does. But anyhoo a salac berry on a groudon perhaps. But after you have sword dance down on it nothing can withstand it. Yeah it has it's weaknesses and if used inproperly isn't all that much cop. But as a whole it is definetely one of the best pokemon. I agree that deoxys is also one of the best though. Kyogre is more easily set up though.

[AntiAsh Superstar]

Anyway, its not raichu as if you were to cuddle it it would paralyse you.


Depends on whether it wanted to be cuddled or not, shurely? :)

Aaanyways, I'm not really into the battling thing so much so I couldn't really say much about that but my preference swings towards Umbreon - it's cool-looking, back in GSC it was built to annoy the hell out of everyone and besides, in my AC stories mine just keeps taking over so I'm kinda biased. ^_^ As Alex says, tho 'best' is pretty subjective.

[SilverMaster]

I kinda expected this.whether the best pokemon is a battler or not. The best battle pokemon is going to be a legendary, a pokemon in everyones game, yet it still may not be the best. Umbreon does look good thought, but i also think jolteon, houndoom, arcanine, metacgross and a whole load of others look good too. I have no idea who would be the best combined though (battle and look) :confused:

[Silv]

Charizard is almost compltely different than Groudon other than the fact they are both often used as physical sweepers.

Charizard makes a horrible physical sweeper. A max attack of 293, minus whatever IV you get, isn't going to fare well against anything. Especially when the only STAB you have is on a type with attacks that can't get any more powerful than 70. Not to mention his defensive stats aren't all that great.

He'd have a better shot on an Aggron with his Flamethrower than he would with a 4x powerful Earthquake.

But back on topic, Groudon really isn't as useful as say, Kyogre. Sure, once set up, he'd be deadly. I have certain ideas coming to mind already:

Groudon@Salaac Berry
Naughty Nature
EVs: 252 Attk, 252 Speed
-Earthquake
-Swords Dance
-Endure
Rock Slide

Because, you see, the only real way to take that thing down is to first Rain Dance, THEN hit him with a water attack. My original strategy against the thing was to send out my Jolteon, use Rain Dance, take a OHKO Earthquake, sent out Swampert, who can take the attack, and then Surf. My Swampert with a Special Attack of 224 could OHKO it in the rain. Because take in mind, Swampert has the STAB, Groudon has a weakness, below average Sp. Def. and the rain works against him as well. Changing the Sunlight to Rain completely turns against him. A Surf from that same Swampert in the Sunlight wouldn't have even taken HALF his HP.

Another easy way I've beaten him was good ol' Kingdra. Rain Dance, speed boost, Hydro Pump. Nuff' said. But how could a Groudon overcome this? His Earthquake alone isn't enough to OHKO someone with the balanced stats of Kingdra.

That's where the above moveset comes in. The only way to OHKO a Groudon would be with a high Sp. Attk Solarbeam, or a water attack with Rain summoned at first. However, the only Grass Pokemon with powerful enough Special Attack and Speed to outdo him(avoiding a OHKO) is Sceptile. However, most Sceptile have Leaf Blade over Solarbeam, which just wouldn't cut it. Groudon could EQ once, Endure, get a speed boost, and EQ again, thus killing it. Even with Sceptile's resistance, it's weak defense next to that extremely high attack plus STAB gets a Two-hit KO from Groudon.

So now for the REAL problem...Water Pokemon. They all need to first Rain Dance to make their water attacks able to OHKO. This gives Groudon a perfect opportunity to Swords Dance. Now when it comes to Pokemon who get a Speed Boost from Rain, like Kingdra, that's where Endure comes in. Groudon Endure's the hit, gets HIS Speed Boost, and then it's game over.

All of his weaknesses are covered. With only EQ and Rock Slide, he can pretty much handle just about any Pokemon but a Countering Skarmory. But while Skarm is using Counter, Groudon could simply SD. And even if Skarmory is attacking with moves like Drill Peck, Groudon't defense would allow him to STILL Swords Dance a few times to drop in the kill, and have him set up for disaster.

That just about covers Groudon't flaws, and still makes him all-around deadly.

[Sceptile_Master]

The thing is though you wouldn't earthquake the jolteon right away. Youd use swords dance. And not only is the jolteon not an immediate threat but if the opponent wanted to switch it then that would take another turn for our precious groudon to either chrge up or attack. Cause after one sword dance your attack already almost 800. Which I don't need to say is very high. Also naughty nature. Nooo why lower any of his defenses. Modest would be good as the gorudon doesn't have any special attacks. Although jolly is also something to consider as it's speed helps. Since swords dance is so powerful I'd go with the extra speed. Plus a kindra would go down OHKO if the groudon has at least one swords on it. Plus remember swamperts low special atk too.

[SR-71 EKFTS]

It all depeds on you're strategy. I like Smearlge with the following set

Mean Look
Mind Reader
Sheer Cold
Horn Drill

[mr_pikachu]

In RSE, though, you have to be wary of relying too heavily on OHKO moves. You get that Smeargle as your last Pokemon up against something with the Sturdy ability, and you may as well just give up. (Which, incidentally, is why Sturdy can be very useful - it's an easy and perfect defense against a OHKO strategy. Not to mention that some Pokemon with Sturdy are quite powerful anyway. Skarmory, Aggron... even Forretress can be fun.)

[Yero Thropp]

Jynx rocks my world. :biggrin:

Jynx w/ Quick Claw, or maxed speed iv and focus band
Lovely Kiss
Calm Mind
Ice Beam
Psychic

Of course, this combination alone won't work... I usually send Celebi out first for Light Screen then Calm Mind (more than once, depending what the opponent has out,) then Baton Pass to Vaporeon for Acid Armor, and finally Substitute and Baton Pass to Jynx. Jynx is a wonderful sweeper. If I find a pogey I can't OHKO, I (hopefully) put it to sleep, switch to Vaporeon for wish, then back to Celebi (hp gain from wish, now the combo starts over again.) This time, after baton passing to Vaporeon, I will Baton Pass to another pogey who has enough attack power to OHKO whatever Jynx cannot (like Salamandrence's Crunch against Psychic types.)

I don't believe there is a "best" pogey out there... any pogey can sweep with the right set up. I've never fought a Groudon I couldn't beat, and the only water pogey on my team is Lanturn (which I would NEVER send out against Groudon. Wheezing's Haze hurts Groudon a bit, add a Toxic then (if Groudon isn't doing too much damage) Substitute and finally Psychic to death.

However, I have to admit that I've been able to sweep half of my opponents with Jynx alone :biggrin:. I know, one Earthquake to the face and Jynx is toast; that's saying you're faster than Jynx, or it isn't being protected by a Substitute, or you're not asleep. Groudon opener? Celebi Reflects, then Baton Passes to Wheezing (who has high defense and special defense iv's and quick claw.) It's usually only a matter of time then.

[Geofree]

How many threads really needs to be made in order for this question to be answered?
Something more original please...

[Lady Vulpix]

This isn't the same question as "what's your favorite pokemon". You can have a (set of) favorite(s) and think that a different pokemon works best in the games.

[SilverMaster]

ladyvulpix's right.
A favorite is one you would prefer to use,it doesn't have to be strong or powerful, it could just be pretty,a nice colour,or have good movesets.

A best is one that is best at something, noramlly battling, but also movesets, height, weight.

correct if incorrect, but the tallest pokemon is steelix (also i think it has the most defense), and i haven't looked up the heaveist, but i'd guess it's snorlax.

[mr_pikachu]

and i haven't looked up the heaveist, but i'd guess it's snorlax.

That used to be the case. Snorlax weighs in at an impressive 1,014 pounds. But in RSE we were introduced to the utterly massive Groudon, which has more than double the mass of the prior king of the weight class: it is an extraordinary 2,095 pounds.

Dunno what it would be in kilograms. Anyone have the stats from a country outside the United States?


EDIT: Oh, and the best Defense award goes to Shuckle. Along with best Special Defense. But it has ridiculously awful stats in the other categories.

[Sceptile_Master]

Heaviest is groudon, tallest is wailordand most defense is shuckle.

Also sword dance + rock slide = ohko weezing.

[SilverMaster]

helping with the topic, what pokemon has the most attack and special attack

or most HP (i think this is blissey, i don't know about the advanced generation pokemon though)

[Sceptile_Master]

Yeah blissey has most health, Fire red Deoxys has the most special attack and attack I think. Emerald Deoxys has the most speed out of any pokemon. Most special defense is also shuckle (and as mentioned before also most defense).

[Lady Vulpix]

Isn't Wailord the longest one? Even longer than Steelix, as far as I know.

And is Natu still the smallest?

[Sceptile_Master]

Did I forget to say wailord?

[SilverMaster]

it's funny that if you were just looking at that, you'd feel shuckle is the best pokemon as it is the only one in two 'best' groups.

Anyway, i figured that a pokemon with an accuracy move (mind reader, lock on) and then a 1HKO, could probably beat groundon (this probably only works when the 1hko pokemon goes first, which it probably will, as i'm guessing groundons speed isn't great, but i haven't checked). The trainer of groundon will ofcourse not know its opponents moves or intentions, and will see it as not an immediate threat, and so use sword dance as its first move.Because the 1HKO pokemon goes first, it would use lock on/mind reader before the swords dance. Now the owner of groundon will see the opponent has a good move coming, but can't reallly do anything about it.Bye groundon.

Any pokemon that could do this could be considered as the best, but i don't really know which ones. (poliwrath could do this in s/g/c, but it's now changed)

[mr_pikachu]

As I've said many times before, this isn't necessarily true. Let's assume the trainer leads with Groudon (which would be a very, very bad strategy, quite frankly). After seeing Mind Reader/Lock On, the trainer says to himself, "This guy's either got a really powerful attack or a OHKO move coming up. Do I want to let Groudon get KO'd this easily?" The trainer thus switches to another Pokemon, such as an Aggron with Sturdy.

OHKO move is used. Aggron laughs.

This is why OHKO moves are no longer as powerful as they were before. Even with Sheer Cold, which no Pokemon is immune to by type (note that Ghost types are immune to Horn Drill and Flyers can't be touched by Fissure), it's not foolproof. Forget that the Pokemon using the strategy is a sitting duck for two turns, even. With the ability of Sturdy on formidable Pokemon like Aggron, Skarmory, and even Shuckle, you simply can't rely heavily on OHKOs.

[Sceptile_Master]

What mr pikachu said. Plus as I said Fire Red Deoxys is also in 2 categories. I also wouldn't see groudon as much of an opener as mr pikachu also said.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Well for RBY AmnesiaMewtwo was the shizzles. Almost nothing could beat, with Dark not being born yet and the only bug move being Leech Life. Explosion was the solution, but you had to play it carefully.

In GSC I'd say EQ_Shadowball_Sacredfire_Recover@Lefties Ho-oh did the job quit good, although FAR from perfect and the 'best', it could handle himself quit well with Shadowball for other Psychic Legendaries. Meh.

In RSE the above Groundon set is what I used and it worked miracles. LG Deoxys is ALMOST unbeatable.

[firepokemon]

Butterfree is the best pokemon. ITs so pretty and flies.

[Lady Vulpix]

Butterfree is the best pokemon. ITs so pretty and flies.
That wasn't the point of this topic, and I think you knew it.

[SilverMaster]

In SGC, Ho-oh has 2 many type weaknesses. Mewtwo is probably still the best in SGC, as dark is still very rare.With these moves (Blizzard,Fire blast, Recover, Psychic) it could beat anyone (although i prefer raikou,mewtwo is still probably better)

And butterfry is much more of a favorite than best. It's not very good

[Lady Vulpix]

Well, I did beat Red's Pikachu with a level 63 Butterfree, but I realize I was lucky. Butterfree doesn't have good stats, though it does have some nice moves. It's a very good annoyer. And good for catching pokemon too.

[Magmar]

Butterfree is the best pokemon. ITs so pretty and flies.


Did you ever notice in the anime, it sounds like it's saying "eeeeat meeeeee"? Hah.

Yes, Butterfree is a good annoyer. If it had a high special attack or physical attack and a decent bug move, it would be a VERY good pokemon with the attacks it already has. Bust out some stun spore... sleep powder... supersonic... and *if* it hits, that's really quite annoying.

[Gnight]

I'm not scared of a freakin groudon. My rash Celebi has been EV trained to have the highest special attack her IVs will alow. She also knows solarbeam. Very nasty to be at the buisness end of it. Why would she know solarbeam in the first place? Castform, 'nuff said. :cool2:

[SilverMaster]

Statswise, a groundon is stronger than a celebi

What moves does it have, then we'll see which is better

Also, did you cheat to get celebi, or did you get it off of colleseum

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

In SGC, Ho-oh has 2 many type weaknesses. Mewtwo is probably still the best in SGC, as dark is still very rare.With these moves (Blizzard,Fire blast, Recover, Psychic) it could beat anyone (although i prefer raikou,mewtwo is still probably better)

No no no. Mewtwo isn't the best in GSC and Tyranitar or Umbreon could easily sweep it. Then on another matter I'd prefer Flamethrower and Icebeam > Blizzard and Fireblast, but ofcourse you'll probably bash me for this and think I'm retarted, but think about it. They are the superior moves.

Then, nextly you can't just say which pokemon is better by just showing off its moves. You'll have to use it in a 6-6 team match. Because ofcourse a Groudon with Fireblast can kill Celebi, but Celebi can come in on Groudon with a Drought set up and just use Solarbeam and score a OHKO.

[mr_pikachu]

Um, I hate to say it, but you can't get Celebi from Colosseum or XD. If you've somehow captured Celebi in either of those games, you've found one heck of a big secret, because nobody else knows about it.

As for Celebi, its time-travelling powers are cool in Pokemon 4Ever, but it's not exactly tremendously useful in the games. Also, even if your Celebi could OHKO a Groudon, you can't assume that you'll be able to get that matchup. Any smart trainer who uses a Groudon (which is an oxymoron of sorts more often than not, if you get my drift) will not start with the Groudon. They'll leave it in reserve, wait for an opportune time, and suddenly toss it in to wipe out whatever it can. Even if you were able to get Celebi in the game against Groudon, you have to remember that you could easily be playing catch-up depending on how much damage the Groudon caused to your Pokemon and/or your strategy. Not to mention that you might have to use Celebi earlier in the match anyway, depending on how long the battle goes before Groudon appears and what Pokemon your opponent uses against you (thus forcing you to counter as well as you can, which might have to include using Celebi).

[SoulflameNinetales]

Well, i prefer pokemon that are versatile. I'm not fond of massive sweepers. I like to go for reliability and versatility when making a decision on what pokemon is truly the best. A team that can adapt itself to any condition is far stronger than a team of sweepers. Though i must admit having as least one sweeper is vital for any well balanced team. Anyway, a well trained Jumpluff with Solarbeam could dish out massive damage to Groudon. In all tactics there are flaws. I actually think that the eevee evolutions are the the true best pokemon ever. Think about it. They are strong, versatile with okay abilities and are cool looking and they are also hugable. Everything in one package. They can fulfil almost every role in a team and are capable of very powerful stats if very well trained.

Just my two scents

*Is knocked to the ground by a tribe of overjoyeed eevees and thier evos*

[Sceptile_Master]

Yes umbreon and jolteon are particullarlly good pokemon. Though not the best. Jumpluff though is not getting near groudon anytime soon. And yes celebi is also a candidate for one of the best pokemon but groudon just seems to be useful for situations. I have to say I don't use groudon or celebi that much as I prefer choices that show more innovation in their training but they are both very good pokemon.

Also in GSC mewtwo could get quite the beating from a blissey. And on the subject of ho-ohs, let's just say my mates one got owned by my raichu (both level 100). I wasn't really surprised either. In the battle against my uber obsessed friend. I lost 2 of my pokemon while he lost all 6. Glorious days for beating such a gloat (cause of his legendaries). Although now I've taught him proper pokemon training he's fairly deadly.

[Gnight]

Also, did you cheat to get celebi, or did you get it off of colleseum


Yes, I cheated. Thanks to my trusty gameshark, I can be with my 2nd favorate pokemon. Aww, so cute :biggrin:


I actually think that the eevee evolutions are the the true best pokemon ever. Think about it. They are strong, versatile with okay abilities and are cool looking and they are also hugable.


Jolteon doesn't look very huggable. >_>

[Magmar]

Oh come on you all know Eevee is the bestest. Quick Attack, Tail Whip, Growl and Helping Hand can take on any Groud--*shuts up and walks away*

[SilverMaster]

Your raichu probably whipped the ho-oh because of type advantage. Why didn't your friend change pokemon.

Mewtwo wouldn't lose to a blissey, in GSC anyway.A blissey has an attack stat of 10. Funny enough i own both of them fully trained and am working on getting them to battle, ho-oh and blissey against mewtwo. see, Oobers can be *FUN*

Anyway, Rayquaza and Kyorge seem very weak now after everyones beefed up groundon. I thought Rayquaza was sposed to be better than groundon.

[mr_pikachu]

Actually, it's not Blissey's attack that's scary. It's the fact that it never faints. Ever. Seriously, it has a huge amount of HP and a large Special Defense as well, so Mewtwo has a hard time even touching it without a really unusual moveset.

And Kyogre was supposed to be basically equal to Groudon (water vs. land), while Rayquaza was supposed to dominate them both. *shrugs*

[Sceptile_Master]

Yep, mr pikachu, exactly what I meant. If a blissey is done properly a mewtwo can have a real hard time against it. Especially once it uses toxic on you, then your screwed. Seriously. And then after you've whittled it's health down it uses frikkin soft boiled. Very annoying.

Plus rayquaza only has a higher base stat total than groudon by 10. Not much. It's just how you execute the moves that makes the difference.

[Lady Vulpix]

Yes, a Blissey with Toxic and Softboiled can be quite scary. And if it also alternates Protect with whatever attack you want (just to do some damage while Toxic takes its toll), it will be very hard to defeat.

[mr_pikachu]

Yeah, Toxic is just about the only reason to have Protect in a moveset, and it's infinitely more deadly when a Blissey uses it. Frankly, Blissey is the whole reason why the Cross Chop Machamp is so prevalent in the battles of today; it's the only combination of a move and a Pokemon that can OHKO a Blissey (other than regular OHKO moves, obviously), according to what I've heard. It's the kind of Pokemon that will leave your opponent swearing. ^_^;;

[Sceptile_Master]

Hmm if I saw a machamp and I had a blissey out I'd automatically switch out. I tell ya something though blisseys and skarmories are pretty much almost as over used as ubers themselves.

[AntiAsh Superstar]

So... umm, why have we assumed that the 'best' pokémon must automatically be the best fighter? I see no clause in the original topic saying that must be the only criteria we go off. :<

fp: Yeah but Venomoth flies and is just as pretty IMO... dammit, down with Butterfree! Just coz Ash had one people assume its the be all and end all of butterfly/moth pokémon. :(
gnight: Dammit, I'm sure Jolteon would be huggable, just coz it's all spiky from static electricity and stuff wouldn't make it's fur sharp so the huggable point stands for me. All Eeveelutions are huggable to the extreme IMO, I bet they'd make some of the best pets in the pokémon universe. :3

[Lady Vulpix]

Ade, aren't you going a bit overboard with the Butterfree thing? I doubt many people thinkof Ash when they train a Butterfree (I never did, except when I used my Butterfree to defeat him), and Venomoth is more popular among trainers than Butterfree is, probably because its stats are much better. But you can't deny that Butterfree is cute, and from experience I can say a Butterfree can be fun to train (especially with a Quick Claw attached).

[Gnight]

gnight: Dammit, I'm sure Jolteon would be huggable, just coz it's all spiky from static electricity and stuff wouldn't make it's fur sharp so the huggable point stands for me.

Uh, Jolteon's fur is sharp. I remember instances when people and pokemon alike got hurt by them.

[Lady Vulpix]

You'd be surprised at the things that can be hugged (http://www.missmab.com/Comics/Vol_254.php).

[SilverMaster]

Funny enough the 2 pokemon was already working on training are cloyster and Blissey, but blissey had softboiled,egg bomb,double edge and sing , while cloyster had surf,ice beam,protect, toxic.

Anyway, i recon it goes in a circle, which pokemon is best. The only things that stop it are groundon and blissey. I haven't found a pokemon that can beat either yet. (this blissey would have toxic, protect, softboiled, double edge)

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Well most Mewto had Submission for Blissey.

[Sceptile_Master]

Funny enough the 2 pokemon was already working on training are cloyster and Blissey, but blissey had softboiled,egg bomb,double edge and sing , while cloyster had surf,ice beam,protect, toxic.

Anyway, i recon it goes in a circle, which pokemon is best. The only things that stop it are groundon and blissey. I haven't found a pokemon that can beat either yet. (this blissey would have toxic, protect, softboiled, double edge)


No, no, no, double edged, why, that tiny attack value could have far better uses. The common one I always see for the advanced generation is:

~ Aromatherapy
~ Softboiled
~ Seismic Toss
~ Thunder Wave

@ Leftovers

But the one I always see for GSC was:

~ Softboiled
~ Heal Bell
~ Light Screen
~ Ice Beam

@ Leftovers

Of course back in the days when my training skills were just average I had a moveset of return/psychic/softboiled/sing @leftovers on my blissey in silver version. Surprisingly it wasn't actually too bad.

[Heald]

Golduck for the win n00bs

[Lady Vulpix]

Heald, if you're going to suggest a pokemon, you should at least give a reason.

[Heald]

I don't really need to give a reason, Golduck is pure pwnage. He is a duck, he is psychic, he is blue and has this awesome crest on his head that can fire laser beams.

Also, water pokemon are one of my favourite types.

[Sceptile_Master]

Meh golduck could be better.

[Lady Vulpix]

Meh golduck could be better.
In what way?

Are you guys even trying to make decent posts here?

[Sceptile_Master]

Just saying that's all. I mean it's obvious Golduck isn't nearly the bets pokemon. It has a good but not great movepool and stats. Could be better if your calling it the bets pokemon that is.

[mr_pikachu]

Reiterating what's been said before, some of us are in disagreement over what constitutes the "best" Pokemon. Some people value battling, while others look at what makes a Pokemon a good companion, etc. That seems to be a big point of contention here. In Heald's case, he seems to like Golduck because of its persona rather than its abilities.

[Magmar]

If we go by RBY, my personal decent Pokemon of choice is always Lapras. Surf, Ice Beam, Body Slam/Thunderwave, Reflect. Mwahaha. I always ended up with a pretty fast Lapras too... dunno how that worked, probably somehow got the EV's and all that jazz on the speed stat.
Going to GSC, I was always a fan of Misdreavus. Just because it was a pure Ghost type.
Ruby/Sapphire inevitably leads me to raise a Shiftry in Ruby or a Ludicolo in Sapphire. I don't have a reason why. I've just always enjoyed using them in battle. I also love using Whismur/Loudred/Exploud in the contests, for no reason, other than I think that Whismur is cute. I laughed my ass off when it evolved, though, because I was always like "My little Whismur, you are oh so cute" and then that... thing... emerged... I was like "Well, so much for winning the cute contests" and once I'd confidently adjusted to the somewhat cuteness of Loudred... it evolved again... and my precious "Nikki"... eww...

[Heald]

I couldn't care less about stats and movepools. Sure, if I was a sad nerd who thought that it actually made any difference, then yeah, but beyond battling stupid geeks who say LOL I USED POKERUS AND CARBON TO MAKE MY DRAGONITE FOURSOME LOLLERSKATES (which we don't even get in England anyway) it is pretty superficial.

[Sceptile_Master]

I couldn't care less about stats and movepools. Sure, if I was a sad nerd who thought that it actually made any difference, then yeah, but beyond battling stupid geeks who say LOL I USED POKERUS AND CARBON TO MAKE MY DRAGONITE FOURSOME LOLLERSKATES (which we don't even get in England anyway) it is pretty superficial.


Yes wanting a pokemon who is actualy good at the helping you through what makes all the difference in the game (the battling) makes you a sad nerd. The logic of that astounds me. But seriously isn't that what this topic is about. I mean it's not a what is your favourite pokemon thread. It's a what is the bets pokemon thread. Although people these days will call everyone with basic (emphasis on basic) cpmputer knowledge a nerd.

[Heald]

Yes wanting a pokemon who is actualy good at the helping you through what makes all the difference in the game (the battling) makes you a sad nerd.Strategy is the main part of the battling, not the stats. Anyone knows that. The stats are only there to appease the idiots who want to sit there and train. Stats and stat-building are effectively worthless in the one-player game because the highest level opponent you ever meet is like level 80, and any level 100 could beat a level 80 (except in some extreme cases).

[Magmar]

Heald, I agree with you. If you intend to compete at like... a national Pokemon championship... then stats and shit are important, but if you're just playing by yourself, then EV's and all that crap don't mean all that much, and nobody who is playing one-player for themselves should be criticized for not having the proper experience points distributed... and I still don't understand how that works... it should only be an issue if you have a ridiculously sad moveset, like my Nidoqueen with poison sting on the first team I ever submitted to TPM, back in 1998... lol...

[Sceptile_Master]

Yeah but talking on the topic which is the best pokemon which obviously is a better battler than one with lower stats. And yes movesets are important but stats are too. No one ever said what was the best 1 player pokemon, it's what is the best pokemon.

[Heald]

Yeah, and as I said, Golduck is the best pokemon.

In fact, lets steal the quote from Gnight's sig:

"Srong pokémon, weak pokémon. That is the selfish perception of people. Truely skilled trainers should try to win with their favorites." -Elite Four Karen

For 'people', read 'idiots'.

[Sceptile_Master]

Golduck may be your most preferred pokemon and I'm all up for training your favourites. But since I got the gist that this topic was about the strongest pokemon I was going by how powerful the pokemon actually is not preference. Actually... SilverMaster could you define more of what you mean by 'best' pokemon.

[SilverMaster]

.The best is 'THE BEST', the number 1, the most battlewise unbeatable pokemon in the game. Subetopics could include the best looking, or the pokemon with the best stats in an area, but generally the topic is about what is the battling number 1, worlds strongest pokemon. Golduck may be your favorite and possibly even near the top of the battling list, but you have failed to proove why it's the best battlewise.So far it's been Groundon, as no ones suggested a way to beat it, but there are still many out there who disagree.

"Srong pokémon, weak pokémon. That is the selfish perception of people. Truely skilled trainers should try to win with their favorites." -Elite Four Karen

We're not saying we we will try to win with the best pokemon or other 'Strong pokemon', most people do try to win with their favourites.But the topic is discussing what the Best pokemon actually is.

[Heald]

Groundon...maybe use Kyogre? That could probably beat him.

[Sceptile_Master]

I think this has already been discussed and a Groudon when used properly can beat kyogres without too much trouble if all goes accorsing to plan. Here's a quote when someone lists some of groudons greatness over kyogre.


The best pokemon in the game. So I don't have to explain it every time, I will tell you why Groudon is better than Kyogre:

-Kyogre's trait only helps itself and other Water/Electric pokemon on the the team. You already have Kyogre as a water pokemon, why would you want to overload your team with more of them? You are asking for your whole team to be easily countered by Blissey. Just for the reference, a Blissey with Special Defense can take on Kyogre. Defense EVs are too risky to sacrifice in the uber metagame... Also, Shedinja fucks up Kyogre something awful. Hope you have Spikes, and Skarmory/Cloyster won't last in the uber metagame.

In comparison, Groudon's trait helps itself and any Grass or Fire pokemon you have. If you are afraid of Sunnybeamers, use Rayquaza. Ground, Grass and Fire surely is a more diverse team than EXCESSIVE Water and Electric. Just a side note, Metagross with a Sunny Day up SCREWS stuff in the ass. The common counter for Metagross is either a Water pokemon or Skarmory... Sunny Day lets you release a STAB HP Fire to Skarmory, and Water pokemon can't hit you nearly as hard with Sunny Day up.

-Kyogre only has Calm Mind, Groudon has Swords Dance. Kyogre only hurts when the Rain is out... Rain or Shine, a Swords Danced Groudon Earthquake WILL fuck you up.

I suggest you all use the Choice Band set. I love the kills on Latios/Latias.

And it makes sense, he's right.

[mr_pikachu]

Of course, this is all meaningless if the uber clause is in effect. (That is my foolproof way to beat any legendary! Muahahaha...) Groudon is definitely not the best Pokemon battlewise if you can't send it into battle in the first place.

For non-ubers, I'd have to nominate Blissey as a contender for "Best Pokemon". It's the whole reason that people play Cross Chopping Machamps, so Blissey's definitely something special, at the very least.

[Orion]

Of course, this is all meaningless if the uber clause is in effect. (That is my foolproof way to beat any legendary! Muahahaha...) Groudon is definitely not the best Pokemon battlewise if you can't send it into battle in the first place.

For non-ubers, I'd have to nominate Blissey as a contender for "Best Pokemon". It's the whole reason that people play Cross Chopping Machamps, so Blissey's definitely something special, at the very least.

00ber Clause makes 00bers weep. :D

And I'll have to agree with mr_pikachu on this. 00bers aside, Blissey and Skarmory are probably the best. They force mixed spreads and Fighting with Fire/Electric combinations in environments they're abused as hell. Both were given access to even more br0kenness in the new games (Spikes Skarmory, Seismic Toss AND Aromateraphy Blissey. Thankee, Nintendo! You made perfectly fine Pokémon so broken it's sickening...). They're just best at what they do, to the point they're almost staples in all Teams.

There's also Tyranitar, which became 10 times as broken with the wrong and unfixed comeback of Substitute. Screws Weather strategies with its Ability. Dragon Dance cancels out its biggest drawback: sucktastic Speed. Has a Movepool even Salamence and Metagross would be proud of. Can Taunt to prevent Hazing in every way. The standard Tyranitar is almost impossible to beat with she Substitute/Focus Punch Combo, and gets rid of OU threats with a decent Special Attack and good enough Attack...

Things that force specific Counters are worthy of being deemed as the best Pokémon...

[SilverMaster]

I'd have to say blissey out of them. It's HUGE hp is almost impossible to bring down, and when you're there it'll use softboiled. Along with to the toxic/protect combo it will bring down any pokemon except some poison. The last move should be filled with psychic to optimize its special attack and destroy the poisons.

I would think only a 1HKO pokemon wopuld stand a chance.If so, you could just switch pkmn.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Well, Crosschop machamp fucks it over, as does Choiceband [insert high atk pokemon name here], Blaziken fucks the BlissSkarmcombo up completely. Blissey HAS to have Aromatherapy and Softboiled. Then maybe Icebeam and Seismictoss or Thunderwave or Lightscreen, something.

[Sceptile_Master]

Hmm Machamp with cross-chop @ choice band makes blissey beg for mercy. Although blissey's are REALLY powerful, skarmories are also quite powerful, but that's because botht of them and stingy lol. But anyhoo they are also very overused.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Yes well fighting in the regular metagame is fighting against OU.

[Silver_Persian]

I don't want to be boring or anything - but nobody has mentioned snorlax :< I dont jknow about the new fangled poke games, but in GSC you needed 3 ish pokemon to cover a snorlax properly (skarm/rock type and tank(probably suicune)).

[rinku]

Snorlax remains a contender... but OHKO's are a pretty good way to deal with it. With 8PP, you are likely to take it out before it's managed to get set up properly. Focus Punch can also be a way of dealing with it, since it is vulnerable to that move while Resting (even with some Defense Boosts, it's unlikely to be able to take 2-3 Focus Punches from a serious Attack type.

[Alucard]

James' cactus dude and Spoink. Don't care about the stats or the moves, they rock all ;x

[Blademaster]

'James' cactus dude' still = Cacnea.

A good way around Blissey is Hariyama. Its Belly Drum will up its Attack to MAX, and then a TM'ed Focus Punch or a Bred Dynamicpunch can dish out some nasty damage.

A good Pokemon to use on Skarmory is Magneton. A Lock-On/Zap Cannon combo that can shake off any attack by Skarmory is a potent weapon against the Steel Bird Pokemon.

EDIT: Oh, sorry, I guess I didn't look too closely at the original topic... :p :redface: :biggrin:

The 'best' Pokemon?

...

...Um, that's impossible to determine, to be honest.

The word 'best' has no definite meaning. It's too vague to judge. 'Best' is not a fact that can be substantially reinforced - it's an opinion that can only be backed up through biased-ness.

The 'heaviest' Pokemon is Groudon, at over 2,000 pounds. Heaviest = most weight. It's a solid figure. It's concrete; there's no way of disproving it until a heavier Pokemon is released by Nintendo.

The 'longest' Pokemon is Wailord, at over 47 feet. Longest = most length/feet. Another solid figure that can't yet be disproved, despite the fact that it seems impossible for a 47-foot creature to weigh a mere 887 pounds. Must be hollow or something...

But 'best' isn't a concrete figure. There's no way of scientifically proving it. I remember hearing someone say that Golduck was the best Pokemon. Good for him, but I hate Golduck. Ever since I saw the way 4Kids stripped it of its dignity the first time it appeared in an episode, I haven'y liked Golduck - it's kinda ugly, it learns no decent moves, and it evolves from poor, pitiful-but-still-somewhat-lovable Psyduck. I've also heard it said that Raikou was the best. Raikou is kinda cool, but I don't think it's the best Pokemon. And I'm sure that I'm not the only one who thinks so.

But, anyway, I'm just giving my opinion here, so I guess it doesn't matter. If I think of anything relevant, then I'll come back.

Until then...

...Bye! :wave:

-Blademaster

[Foguet]

I'd say that, one on one, and without switching Pokémon being available, Mewtwo can beat anything, with the right moveset.

[mr_pikachu]

A few things.

1. That sort of argument doesn't have much merit, honestly. If you're designing a moveset to specifically counter a particular enemy, then of course you're likely going to win.

2. While Mewtwo's Special Attack is incredible, its Attack is not as strong. Its defensive stats certainly aren't great for a legendary, so if it were to battle something that could deal with Special moves and dish out a good deal of damage, Mewtwo would be in trouble.

3. If we're talking about designing "the right moveset" to beat a particular foe, Mewtwo pales in comparison to Mew (who is also superior to Smeargle thanks to its stats). Fighting a Dragonite? Ice Beam it to the ground. Squaring off with a Blissey? Shatter its techniques with Brick Break + Submission. Need to handle an Alakazam? It won't stand up to a Shadow Ball. Warring with a Steelix? Surf that titan away.

The same goes for pretty much any other Pokemon. The only real situation in which an unusual situation might occur is when two Pokemon have moves to exploit each others' weaknesses equally, and one has superior stats than the other. That's really the only unpredictable thing here. But in general, if you want to beat a particular foe, you can build a moveset for the sole purpose of taking advantage of its weaknesses.

[Crazy Elf Boy]

Yeh the best pokemon for me would be a mawhile that i snagged from my Pokemon XD it has:

False Swipe
Sing
Fire Blast
Crunch

But i want to teach it Block or Mean look and a recovering move like recover or morning sun you know
So it will be like the ultimate catching pokemon because it already has a high defense

So i hope it will look like this one day

Mawhile AKA Crusher@Quick claw

False Swipe
Sing
Mean look or Block
A recovery move

If any one knows if it can learn these moves please tell me ok :wink:

[+conspiracy+]

why wouldn't smeargle be regarded as the best pokemon... it can learn every move in the game

or wobbuffett... it can manipulate and send your attacks right back at you

[mr_pikachu]

Crazy Elf Boy: Sorry, but it can't learn either Mean Look or Block (at least, not as of RSE). For recovery moves, it learns Swallow (useless without Stockpile) and Rest (you may want to work out a tactic to use this). It also learns Substitute, although I'd be very hesitant to classify that as a "recovery" technique. It's more like a staller, much in the same way as Protect (which it also learns).


conspiracy: It's true that conspiracy can learn any attack in the game. The problem is that anything Smeargle can do, some other Pokemon can do better. Its stats are just too weak to use the moves that it learns. And if you try to use something that doesn't involve directly attacking (so as to avoid the problem of its weak Attack and Sp. Attack), its defenses won't let it survive long enough to take full advantage of them.

Wobbuffet can be good, although it's risky for a few reasons. For one thing, it has to take damage in order to deal damage; that alone is a little troublesome. It also has no way of defending against many "indirect" attacks, like Sandstorm or Future Sight (someone correct me if I'm wrong about the latter). Plus, even assuming it can reflect any attack that an opponent uses against it, you still can end up with a guessing game over whether to use Counter or Mirror Coat.

Admittedly, the EV system in RSE has made the last scenario a bit easier to handle, as you're less likely to come up against sweepers using both Physical and Special moves. And its Shadow Tag ability also makes it a force to be reckoned with, since opposing trainers can't switch Pokemon to get a better matchup. But I'd still be hesitant to call it the best, as its weakness to indirect attacks leave it completely at the mercy of some opponents. This is compounded with the problem of some tournaments that ban Leftovers on Wobbuffet in order to avoid a Wobbuffet-Wobbuffet stalemate. Leftovers is probably Wobbuffet's best defense against many weather-based attacks (like the aforementioned Sandstorm as well as Hail). Leftovers would cancel out the HP loss from the weather, so it would seem to force an opponent to attack directly. But if Wobbuffet is forbidden to hold Leftovers... well, you see the problem.

Anyway, the point is that Wobbuffet is good, but very risky.

[Foguet]

A few things.

1. That sort of argument doesn't have much merit, honestly. If you're designing a moveset to specifically counter a particular enemy, then of course you're likely going to win.

2. While Mewtwo's Special Attack is incredible, its Attack is not as strong. Its defensive stats certainly aren't great for a legendary, so if it were to battle something that could deal with Special moves and dish out a good deal of damage, Mewtwo would be in trouble.

3. If we're talking about designing "the right moveset" to beat a particular foe, Mewtwo pales in comparison to Mew (who is also superior to Smeargle thanks to its stats). Fighting a Dragonite? Ice Beam it to the ground. Squaring off with a Blissey? Shatter its techniques with Brick Break + Submission. Need to handle an Alakazam? It won't stand up to a Shadow Ball. Warring with a Steelix? Surf that titan away.

The same goes for pretty much any other Pokemon. The only real situation in which an unusual situation might occur is when two Pokemon have moves to exploit each others' weaknesses equally, and one has superior stats than the other. That's really the only unpredictable thing here. But in general, if you want to beat a particular foe, you can build a moveset for the sole purpose of taking advantage of its weaknesses.

Yes, it is true that this tactic (special movesets to beat an opponent) can be used by many other Pokémon, but Mewtwo is unique in that its stats make it the best option. For example, whatever moves you put on a Blissey, it will never beat a Crosschoping Machamp, and Ludicolo will never beat an aeroblasting Lugia never mind how powerful its Icebeam is. Mewtwo however, with the right attacks, can beat any other Pokémon.

And secondly, I believe Mewtwo has an edge over Mew; its speed which enables it to take the initiative against most foes, while Mew is relatively slow and might take a lot of damage before it actually gets to attack. And about the movepool thing, Mew can learn many more attacks but Mewtwo doesn't really need to learn more attacks than it already does; what it can learn is more than enough to dispatch anything.

In all of the examples you set, Mewtwo can beat all those enemies as well, and instead of surf it could use flamethrower against Steelix.

[Crazy Elf Boy]

Thanks Mr Pikachu Do you know any other moves that don't let the other pokemon to escape because i really want to have an ultimate catching pokemon and i know that pokemon with false swipe are the best ones to choose. So can you tell me any other moves that don't let the pokemon escape or could you suggest a better pokemon to use

[mr_pikachu]

Well, usually False Swipers can be quite helpful, especially when you're trying to catch legendaries. The problem with what you'd like, however, is that (as of RSE) there is simply no Pokemon that learns both False Swipe and a "no flee" move (either Block or Mean Look).

Frankly, False Swipe is superior to Block and Mean Look for one reason: the latter two moves do not always work. That's not to say that they don't keep the opponent from fleeing. However, the opponent can still force you to run; for instance, Roar will always instantly end a battle with a wandering legendary such as the three dogs of Johto. So those moves can at times be completely useless; therefore, a False Swiper is better.

For other moves, you might want some moves that are at least a little stronger so that you can bring down your opponent's HP faster. Another move that is good (although it relies completely on timing) is Spite. Normally it's not great; however, Pokemon like Rayquaza can be a pain to catch when they constantly Rest away their damage. If you use Spite, that move's PP will decrease dramatically. (Use it with caution, however; you don't want your foe to end up with low HP and be forced to Struggle to death!) Status moves are also helpful. The best catching condition, in my opinion, is sleep. It's not permanent, but sleeping Pokemon seem like they have a better chance of being caught than paralyzed Pokemon, burned Pokemon, etc. (A word to the wise. When trying to catch a Pokemon, do not confuse it! You'll be sorry when you knock its health down around 1 HP and it knocks itself out!) And finally, you'll generally want a Pokemon with solid Attack and Speed so that it can make full use of False Swipe's power.

So, based on all of that, let's try to build a good catching Pokemon...


Breloom

False Swipe
Spore [Shroomish learns at level 54]
Double Team? [TM32] (Yes, I'm serious!)
Filler move


For the most part, this is a straightforward strategy. Use Spore to put your opponent to sleep, filler move to knock off HP. Repeat until HP is sufficiently low, then switch False Swipe for filler move. Repeat until HP is at 1 and the opponent is snoozing, and attempt your capture.

Now, why would you want Double Team, you ask? Well, Breloom has a horrible drawback when it comes to capturing. You see, the only ability it can have is Effect Spore. Normally that's not so bad; however, you really don't want your opponent to end up with the wrong status condition when you're trying to snatch it. For instance, try bagging a poisoned legendary. It's nearly impossible unless you throw out that Master Ball, because once you get its HP low enough to catch a Pokemon of legendary status, the poison will knock it unconscious. Unless your opponent heals its own status, you're in serious trouble.

So this tactic is slightly different at the beginning. You Spore your opponent to sleep first. Once the foe's in la-la land, start DTing. If the foe wakes up, sned it back to dreamland and keep DTing until you've maximized ol' Breloom's evasion. Then go to work, praying that your opponent doesn't unbelievably wake up, hit you, and get affected by a bad Effect Spore while you're at maximum evasion. Also, DO NOT attack unless your opponent is asleep. After all, it'd pretty much be missing the point to activate Effect Spore yourself after all that work, right? Finally, for the filler move, you might want to consider Attract in order to further minimize the chances of getting hit. Of course, I don't know if it'll work on genderless Pokemon (like most of the legendaries), but it could be worth a shot otherwise.

Now I'm sure you're wondering why you'd want to even consider Breloom, what with all the trouble that Effect Spore causes. The reason for this is the devastating False Swipe + Spore combo. Only two evolution lines can learn both moves: those of Parasect and Breloom. And Parasect also can only have Effect Spore as an ability; furthermore, it can't learn Double Team, and it has a horrid Speed stat. So I picked Breloom both because of that combo and because it's better than Parasect, in my opinion.

Still, Breloom's a very risky choice. You might instead choose to take a more standard approach by False Swiping away with something that doesn't have to have Effect Spore (and can use a less accurate sleep move), or you could try paralysis instead of sleep, or something like that. If you're going to use Breloom, make sure to maximize its Attack and Speed EVs. Attack is obviously crucial for False Swipe's effectiveness. Speed is important both for faster moves in general and to avoid accidentally activating Effect Spore yourself. Assuming that your opponent can't hit you to activate that ability, here's how a typical exchange might go if your foe is faster...


Wild Rayquaza woke up!
Wild Rayquaza used Extremespeed!
The attack missed!
Breloom used False Swipe!
(Wild Rayquaza's HP = 1)
Effect Spore poisoned Wild Rayquaza!
Wild Rayquaza is weakened by poison!
(Wild Rayquaza's HP = 0)
Wild Rayquaza was knocked out!
You are an idiot!


...Yeah. Anyway, if you're faster, here's how it looks...


Breloom used False Swipe!
(Wild Rayquaza's HP = 1)
Wild Rayquaza woke up!
Wild Rayquaza used Extremespeed!
The attack missed!


...And on your next turn you use Spore, and you can start chucking Pokeballs.

The important thing to remember is that Spore cannot replace another status condition, despite its normal accuracy of 100%. If your foe gets afflicted by something else, it cannot be replaced. But Effect Spore works the same way; it can't replace a sleep condition with something else. So if you're faster, you can know whether your opponent will be asleep or awake when you get to attack (and thus whether or not Effect Spore can screw up your plans). If you're slower, your opponent could wake up before you get the chance to strike, and you could play the fool in giving your foe the wrong condition.

Anyway, I apologize for this very long-winded explanation. Needless to say, Breloom would have been much, much better in GSC; that's also why Parasect was so incredible during those games. False Swipe + Spore without Effect Spore... good times.

[Crazy Elf Boy]

Thanx so much and it is very convienient for me that i do have a shroomish with false swipe from Pokemon XD Gale of darkness (hehehe best game ever) so i will try to raise it like that and i should look out for more creatures with strange type moves that are good catching type moves.

Though the best catching pokemon i ever had was a level 100 Scizor on my Silver that knew false swipe and thats were i fell in love with that move.

[Phoenixsong]

In my opinion the best Pokemon is Blaziken, just because I love it and it's got awesome offensive and great speed stats. It can physical sweep, it can special sweep (generally not QUITE as well, but still really well), it has a cool movepool... it rocks. (Note that I said "best in my opinion", and not "best"; it's not a concrete thing, like Blademaster said.) And I just love it and am biased in its favor... so yeah. A few other things, though:

First of all, +conspiracy+, you seem to forget that Mew can also learn every move in the game and has WAY better stats... or maybe you only mentioned Smeargle because Mew is so hard to get. And I don't think Mew is slow... maybe it is slower than Mewtwo (that could be, as I've never compared the two side by side), but I've always seen Speed ranked as one of Mew's best stats. But anyway.

Second, yes, mr_pikachu, Future Sight is an issue for Wobbuffet. Future Sight causes between-turns damage, just like bad status and weather; therefore Mirror Coat can do absolutely nothing about it.

However, I don't believe that the Pokemon with Effect Spore, Poison Point, etc actually cause the status themselves. A lot of books and such say that the contact effects kick in whenever direct contact is made, but there are others that say it only occurs when the OPPONENT makes contact. To my knowledge the second one is the correct one; I've used Nidoking, Raichu and Breloom an awful lot, and my Quick-Attacking, Horn-Attacking and Mach Punching Pokemon have never caused the effect themselves. None of my opponents with contact effects have ever done that to me, either... I've never taken Rough Skin damage from an attacking Carvanha or Sharpedo, for example. Either I have incredible luck (or misfortune, depending on whether or not I want the status there) in that this has never happened to me, or only the opponent of the contact effect Pokemon can trigger the effect. Therefore, the Effect Spore/Breloom thing is only 50% as bad as you mentioned... still a problem, but not that bad. And I know Parasect's Speed sucks, but are you sure it can't learn DT? I was under the impression that DT was one of those moves that any Pokemon can learn (with the obvious exception of all Pokemon that can never learn TMs, like Smeargle and Wobbuffet and Weedle), just like Rest, Toxic and Protect. I might be wrong, though.

[Crazy Elf Boy]

Yes i agree that it only works when the opponent attacks I actually have been hit a few times from shroomish's and brelooms spore effect though it was only at the start of the game but i can tell you it gets really annoying when you are about to kill one then it says Zigzagoon fell asleep. But it never happen when my shroomish attacks them. Also thank u again Mr Pikachu i am in the process of training a shroomish for that purpose of catching Pokemon.

[mr_pikachu]

Phoenixsong: To respond to the DT question, I double-checked the info on another site. Then I went and looked at the first site once more. After seeing that both sites give Double Team as a move that Parasect can learn via TM, I stabbed my eyes with a butter knife, because apparently, they're useless.

This is why I don't usually give advice at 5:30 in the morning... >_< At least I was right about one thing; Breloom is the better FSwiper, with a far higher Attack score. So I'm not a total idiot. Yay.


CEB: No problem. It's a risky Pokemon for capture purposes, but it can work wonders if you use it well. Also, you may want to change your plans for EVs if Effect Spore can't be triggered by the Pokemon with the ability. Since it would no longer be nearly as important to get the first attack, you may want to throw some Speed EVs into HP or Defense/Special Defense. Just a thought.