What have people got against Ubers

[SilverMaster]

I keep getting people telling me to take any legendarys out of my team. What's everyone got against them, jus because they have higher stats than most other pokemon.

[Lady Vulpix]

Well, which pokemon you want to use is up to you.
Personally, I don't keep legendaries in my team because training other pokemon is a lot more fun. I don't think I could explain this, but there's something about legendaries in general that makes them seem less real than the others. Which aren't real either, of course, but it's a sensation.

[Orion]

I keep getting people telling me to take any legendarys out of my team. What's everyone got against them, jus because they have higher stats than most other pokemon.

You just answered your own question... :)

Still, the problem is with 00bers, NOT Legendaries as a whole. If Legendaries were wrong, then the likes of Dragonite and Salamence should be claused too. On the other hand, 00bers have Stats way beyond the average Pokémon (Even Legends.), MASSIVE Movepools that allow to cover each and every Weakness they might have, or all Types for that matter. As far as in-game goes, they start at such a high Level they own right away...

Still, you can use whatever you want. But keep in mind that when battling others, you have to abide by a few rules everyone has to agree with, and most people that like fair play will clause 00bers most of the time, unless it's an 00ber fight. In-game, you can use whatever you want (The major Battle facilities will clause 00bers anyway...), but when battling other people, you have to make rules to make it fair game...

[SilverMaster]

When i say Oobers, i generally mean the top 6 ,Ho-oh, Lugia,Mewtwo,Rayquaza,Groundon,Kyorge. The other legendaries and 'strong pokemon' (dragonite ect.) are also often outcasted.

They seem to allow Ubers into trianer tower in Fr,Lg , which is a major battling facility.

[Lady Vulpix]

When I said legendaries I meant what you call 00bers. Pokemon who can't breed and of which you get only one in the games. I did have a Dragonite in more than one of my teams.

[Sceptile_Master]

basically for this reason. Strategy. It takes that word out of the game.

[soggy_cardboard]

Ledendaries are no fun anyway. POWER TO UU!

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Yeah, better just keep training my Magikarp...

[Magmar]

The only thing remotely close to legendary that I even attempt to raise is Lapras. Legendaries are seriously no fun at all.

[Austrian ViceMaster Alex]

When I was still an avid Pokémon trainer I used to raise all of them, no matter if lengendaries or not. The only Pokémon me and my friends didn't use was Mewtwo but all others were just fine. We didn't use them often as we liked diversity though but fighting against lengdaries is very challenging in my opinion. So, personally I have nothing against using them.

[Gnight]

I don't have a problem with ledgendaries. Hell, a few of my favorates are ledendaries.

[mr_pikachu]

Basically, the problem most people have with "ubers" is that they're too easy to raise. Realistically, it doesn't matter what moves you use or what EVs you emphasize (third generation only). They'll still be extremely powerful. Raising other Pokemon to be exceptional takes a lot more work and planning. You have to carefully choose movesets, decide how to raise them, determine what characteristics to look for (like natures and gender), and then you have to breed the best Pokemon you can get. Finally, you have to actually go out and train your team. With ubers, they'll be powerful no matter how much or how little effort you put into raising them, so long as they're up to the same level as the rest of the competition. (Don't ever even think about taking a group of Level 40 legendaries to an open level tournament. You'll be destroyed.)

However, teams that emphasize legendaries often have problems. For one thing, their trainers often rely too heavily on them simply overpowering opponents just because they are legendary. That is, they don't put the time into planning their methods of raising the Pokemon. Also, legendaries can be very limited in terms of potential. Yes, any legendary is going to be powerful, but very few can really dominate effectively. They can blast away at most Pokemon, but they still often have glaring weaknesses. (There are some exceptions, like certain strategies with Groudon, but I won't get into that here.)

Frankly, I've heard about many "anything goes" tournaments where the only team that wasn't stacked with legendaries ended up winning. It takes time and patience to raise incredible Pokemon if they're not legendaries, but it's often worthwhile. It doesn't much matter how much forethought you put into raising an uber Pokemon, but planning ahead makes all the difference in the world for otherwise "ordinary" Pokemon.

[SilverMaster]

The only reason Oobers are easy to raise is because they start at a high level, generally 70 (for proper Oobers anyway, others are 50). Legendaries do have stratergy, like gorundon and swords dance, and others with recover.

Oobers are as much fun to raise as any of the other pokemon, you can just push their limits a bit more while training. 1/2 of my team is legendaries in silver, and battling them against the pokemon on stadium is more fun than battling others, because it's still difficult, but they win. (especially against my rivals legends, FUN).

[Sceptile_Master]

Err no offense but mabye you should read up on this. Some of what your saying is true when applied to gold, silver and crystal, but, in terms strategy and depth, pokemon has moved in leaps and bounds since those days. Now absolutley zilch (yes 0%, absolutely none of it) of that applies to pokemon now. Now with EVs, IVs and stuff like that as well as using abilities (and natures, the list could go on) and stuff all together has put pokemon on a whole new level of challenge and depth.

And about the strategies you mentioned. They aren't strategies they are just powerful moves. It doesn't make it strategy.

And @ mr pikachu: and then the uber users think they are good trainer when they win against people *rolls eyes*.

[SilverMaster]

I have a team without Oobers aswell, so i can fight without them.It doesn't stop them being fun.

The legends are these levels, in advanced generation, (GSC they are mainly 40 and 70), so some of it still applies.

0obers do have 1 stratergy, to go in and kill any opposing pokemon.(i don't include myself in this) Alot of people, mainly average trainers, use Oobers because they can't be bothered about stratergies. I haven't looked at stratergies much because of the way i'm playing the game (see my second post in how to catch legendaries).

[Sceptile_Master]

Levels don't really matter as leveling the pokemon isn't the hard bit. And strategy wise you need to know the game mechanics (the way the game works) first to properly know about strategies). And going and killing everyone isn't a strategy. Plus there teams aren't always really hard to beat as hyper beam = fail. Read up on some of the game mechanics and you'll start understanding about other pokemon. That's what all my uber obseesed friends did (when I taught them about stuff lol) and now they know what I mean.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

First off all 00bers aren't the same pokemon as Legendaries. You can describe every non-trio legendary an 00ber. This includes Rayquaza, Mewtwo, Mew, Deoxys, Celebi, etc...

Secondly as someone said before, you answered your own question. 00bers have an enormous movepool and have much higher stats. It's no fun to battle those pokemon with your own regular party. But ofcourse 00ber team vs. 00ber team battles are fun, it's just like two UU teams fighting.

Thirdly what you call the '00ber- strategy' of coming in and cleaning out teams, is not true. Celebi for example mostly uses Baton-Pass, Leech Seed or Healbell.


mainly average trainers, use Oobers because they can't be bothered about stratergies.

If you can't be bothered at strategies, you fail at pokemon. 'Nuff said.

[Jeff]

Another thing is that if everyone used ubers, then everyone would likely be using the same pokemon. Banning ubers, helps add variety and fun to pokemon battling. Of course, now that we are having an increasing number of ubers, uber only battles can be fun as well, it's like having a seperate weight class for them.

[SoulflameNinetales]

True, not all legendaries are uber. I personally like the legendary "dogs" for G/S/C for the simple fact they are not too powerful in stats, like most other legendaries. Anyway, it's easily possible to make powerful teams with just non-legendaries. The most powerful pookemon i've ever trained was a Rhydon...and if it struck first, its power could easily knock out most pokemon or severly injure them. Mewtwo, Ho-oh, Lugis and thier kin are just so overused and overrated it is not funny. i've beaten a team of legendaries, only losing 1 pokemon. Hell, i've beaten 4 mewtwos in a battle, using a paralysed espeon with bite. That shows how poor some people train up legendaries and how bad cloning can be.

[Lady Vulpix]

Funny, since Mewtwo is supposed to be a clone to begin with.

[Gnight]

i've beaten a team of legendaries, only losing 1 pokemon. Hell, i've beaten 4 mewtwos in a battle, using a paralysed espeon with bite. That shows how poor some people train up legendaries and how bad cloning can be.


Good lord. Mewtwo is shuned so badly for being so powerful and owning most everybody(and they're right to do so) and sombody loses with 4 mewtwo clones?? He must be the worst trainer in the world! I've heard of n00b trainers with a team of 6 ledendaries with hyper beam, but this one takes the cake!

[Sceptile_Master]

Yeah n00bs over use of hyper beam makes them sooooo easy to beat. Seriously. Why do they all use it so much.

@Gabi: I think they were refering to the glitch on pokemon gold, silver and crystal where you could duplicate your pokemon.

[Lady Vulpix]

@Gabi: I think they were refering to the glitch on pokemon gold, silver and crystal where you could duplicate your pokemon.
I know, I just wanted to point out the irony in cloning Mewtwo.

[mr_pikachu]

This is an example of a great quote from Multiplicity in action. A copy of a copy just isn't quite as good as the original. :D

But seriously, that's pretty pathetic, especially since those Mewtwos must have been getting the first strike every time (barring a Quick Claw on the Espeon, of course).

And that's the whole problem with legendaries. People who use them tend to rely on their "power" so much that they fail to make any decent strategies for their use. :P

[AntiAsh Superstar]

I've no problems with people using 00bers actually. Sure if raised well and given decent movesets they can be scary but... meh, the one or two times you actually manage to take them down in spite of all that makes it all worthwhile no? (whoa I'm talking like my AC Raticate here) :D

But as has been mentioned, it's the whole 'variety' thing that makes people ban legendaries. You'll have a more varied, interesting battle if people don't turn up with the same old team with the same old moves, and with so many pokémon nowadays you can make excellent teams very easily(-ish) with non-legendaries.

Overall it's prolly just the overuse factor that does it, people prolly go 'omg *another* <insert name here>???'. It gets very boring if you just face the same things all the time so just bar the ones that everybody *wants* to use. ^_^

[Gnight]

Banning ledgendaries would be just plain wrong. Even high level in-game CPU trainers posess ledgendary pokemon, especially in XD. Someone sends out a Regirock or a Raikou or something and it kinda makes it more instresting....

[mr_pikachu]

Well, that's true in Colosseum and XD, but I don't think you ever face a trainer with a legendary Pokemon in any of the other games, unless you count the TCG video games. :D This can be explained by their methods of "creating" Shadow Pokemon. However you interpret that, they clearly have a great deal of power and influence at their disposal. Either way, though, they certainly don't have an entire team packed with legendaries. That's what usually get people upset. If someone used one or two legendaries which worked with their other Pokemon to create a solid team strategy, I don't think too many people would have a problem with it. It's when trainers toss out six straight ubers that everyone gets frustrated.

[Gnight]

Well, that's true in Colosseum and XD, but I don't think you ever face a trainer with a legendary Pokemon in any of the other games, unless you count the TCG video games. :D This can be explained by their methods of "creating" Shadow Pokemon. However you interpret that, they clearly have a great deal of power and influence at their disposal. Either way, though, they certainly don't have an entire team packed with legendaries. That's what usually get people upset. If someone used one or two legendaries which worked with their other Pokemon to create a solid team strategy, I don't think too many people would have a problem with it. It's when trainers toss out six straight ubers that everyone gets frustrated.


There are a few tough trainers in the Battle Tower that posess a ledendary pokemon. Speaking of which, if some asshat comes at you with 6 ledendaries, something is wrong.

[mr_pikachu]

What's worse is when they try use six straight Level 100 Mewtwos. When I was first getting into Pokemon, I wanted to build that team. I was training up #4 when Gold and Silver came out. And then I saw the new Dark type and cried.

But it's pretty obvious that someone who wants to do something like that doesn't have a clue about strategies anyway. Even if I had built the team and somehow gotten it into an RBY tournament, I likely would have ended up getting schooled by superior teams. I recognize that now, but in those days, I thought that Mewtwo was essentially invincible. *laughs ashamedly*

And I'd forgotten about Battle Tower. That's a good point, although I honestly don't consider side challenges like that part of the normal gameplay in Pokemon.

[Lady Vulpix]

Ah, all that talk of old times... it reminded me of when I was playing Red and had beaten the Elite 4 with Charizard, a Vaporeon, a Pidgeot and 3 less important pokemon (those 3 did most of the job) and then someone came and said that if I wanted a team that was capable of winning a battle against another player it would have to be all legendaries. I had trained a Moltres for a few days (only legendary I've ever trained) and battling with it wasn't really fun, so the idea of training a whole team of legendaries made no sense to me. Especially since I didn't want to lose my big 3 (I ended up losing them eventually, but not on purpose; if I ever get to play Fr/Lg I'll try to get those 3 pokemon again).

Another reason I had not to pay attention to those comments was that they had also recommended choosing any starter but Charmander, and I had gone far having chosen exactly that one. True, the first 2 gym battles were tough, but during the rest of the game I was glad to have my Char by my side.

[Magmar]

I'm personally afraid of fire and hardly ever raise a Fire Pokemon, just based on my principle. I've never started with Charmander.

Mewtwo rocked in Pokemon Colloseum, I must admit. ^_^

[SilverMaster]

I did what I was told and looked stuff up on this website [LV edit: we all know that website, but linking to its front page goes against TPM's rules.] (it's really good). Anyway, i've discovered loads of stuff about EV's and IV's, and natures, and abilities.
(i've just posted some questions in the advanced forum, cause i confused myself when i was looking at this website.I really need help)

I still think legends and Oobers are great though, only when used in moderation, having 1 2 or a maximum of 3 different 0obers in a team of 6. That person who used 6 mewtwos must of really sucked. A bite shouldn't be able to kill a mewtwo in one go, despite weaknesses.

I'v noticed aswell that all Ubers are totally different, which just adds to the variety of pokemon you can choose from.

Also, how did you lose your Charizard, vaporeon and Pidgeot.

[Lady Vulpix]

Sorry for editing your post, but that link was against the
TPM General Rules (http://forboards.tripod.com/TPM_General_Rules.html), particularly the one about linking to other Pokemon main sites.

As for how I lost my pokemon from Red, the battery was ruined.

[SilverMaster]

Do you mean the save battery thing. If it runs out, do you lose ALL the pokemon, or does it just stop saving. I wasn't aware of the rules. Unfortunatley i've put the same website on a post in advanced generation, and on my profile, but i'll take the profile one off now.

[mr_pikachu]

Actually, it's fine to put a link to another Pokemon website in your sig or your profile. However, you're not supposed to make posts with links like those in them. When you post links to material from other Pokemon websites, your links should point directly to the content you want to show people, rather than to the main page of the site.

[Sceptile_Master]

I still think legends and Oobers are great though, only when used in moderation, having 1 2 or a maximum of 3 different 0obers in a team of 6. That person who used 6 mewtwos must of really sucked. A bite shouldn't be able to kill a mewtwo in one go, despite weaknesses.


I usually limit it to 1.

[Lady Vulpix]

I don't know what happens if the save battery runs out. It broke in a way that it would recover save-states prior to the last one (apparently random ones) and wouldn't save new ones.

[SoulflameNinetales]

I got a total of 3 pokemon games with dead internal batteries :(

My Blue, original yellow version and my crystal version no longer stores save game information...funnt through...crystal was the first to go...then yellow and lastly blue. Blue doesn't work at all...and i lost the save games from yellow and crystal. (sob....my poor fire and water team...)

[mr_pikachu]

Part of the reason that some of the GSC games may be wearing down faster than the RBY games might have to do with the greater toll that's put on the internal battery. In RBY, the only time the clock was used was when the game was on, so unless you literally had the game on all the time, it wouldn't run out that quickly. But in GSC, another internal clock measured the time even when the game was off (for the night and day as well as similar features), so it makes sense that it might run out quicker. The same may be true for RSE, since those games have a real-time clock as well.

This might be something that Nintendo should consider during the production of Diamond and Pearl. I would imagine losing all your data would frustrate a good number of people. Perhaps something like making the real-time clock optional would be a smart idea.

[SoulflameNinetales]

Or making the internal bateeries easier to replace...

[SilverMaster]

How long did it take for the battery to run down. I've had my silver for 5 years and it's never failed to save. And say it did run down, is it actually replacable or not.

Luckily i've cloned my valuable pokemon and put them onto another game.

[mr_pikachu]

How long did it take for the battery to run down. I've had my silver for 5 years and it's never failed to save. And say it did run down, is it actually replacable or not.

Luckily i've cloned my valuable pokemon and put them onto another game.

Well, I've had my Gold game for about five years, and it eventually wore down. I'm not sure if the battery could be replaced; you'd have to either take it to a special shop of some sort, or you'd have to somehow do it yourself (which might actually be illegal; I'm not sure how far the "reverse engineering" law extends). But part of our discussions about this in GSC centered around how exploiting glitches to clone Pokemon, duplicate items, etc. might actually corrupt your game quicker, because it could screw up the delicate programming. Trading the cloned Pokemon might also have a detrimental effect on whatever game received them, so it might actually be safer not to clone Pokemon than to attempt to preserve them by doing so.

Note that although I made use of no glitches in my Gold game, my game still broke down. That goes to show that it's not all about what glitches you take advantage of, I guess. Maybe some games were produced better than others, or something.

[SoulflameNinetales]

Yeah, you maybe right, my gold verson still work and i've played a totally overall of over 600 hrs since i got it years ago :cool:

[Phoenixsong]

Hum-de-ho-hum... uh, not to backseat mod or anything, but might I point out that this discussion about dead batteries is slightly off-topic? True, my brother and I have been most frustrated by old games screwing up (I miss my first Charizard, Captain... sniff... Captain! waaaahh!), and I'll probably shrivel up and die when the internal battery in my beloved Ruby goes out. But aaaannnyyywayyy...

Yeah, yeah, I know legendaries/00bers are overused. I myself am somewhat ever-so-slightly guilty of such... my tournament-winning team had a Groudon, Kyogre and Mewtwo on it, and it was partially focused on the ridiculously varied movesets they have. (All three of them know Thunder, Mewtwo knows Water Pulse and Earthquake... boy, I had fun smacking all those TM's on Lyon.) But that just goes to show that there is more strategy involved in using legendaries than just loading them up with super-powerful moves, putting Hyper Beam as the first move in line and mashing the A button. I had to consider how the various Earthquakes and weather-effects would affect not only the other legendaries but also my "normal" Pokemon (Blaziken, Salamence and Absol)... and most of the people I fought had the same Pokemon in some combination- especially Groudon. Their strategies didn't seem as detailed as mine, so that may have just been them wanting to use over-hyped legendaries like everyone else. Actually, my original team idea didn't even include legendaries because I wanted to be original, but when I found out that the suggested Pokemon level for the tournament was 100 I had to rush to find the best Pokemon I had that were both over Level 60 and still made a balanced team. I've never really raised Pokemon to level 100 before, and it just so happens that most of my powerful Pokemon are Fire, Water, Psychic, Dark and Dragon types, more by accident than design. So, really, including those three legendaries was my only chance to raise a tournament-ready team in the short amount of time I had. And luckily for me, the rules Pokemon USA set don't ban any Pokemon other than Jirachi, Deoxys, Mew and Celebi... so, yes, my slight lack of originality makes me slightly ashamed, but only slightly. If you just take out the tournament-style competitive context, legendary Pokemon and 00bers can be fun and interesting to raise. The challenge lies in doing what you can to make an overused Pokemon as unique and special as you can. (And anyway, 00ber fights- which is most of what I had to deal with- are a lot of fun. Those were certainly the hardest battles for me).

Long story short, you shouldn't knock legendaries/ubers just because they're overused. If it's a Pokemon you like, don't worry about what other people think about it and train it as individually as you see fit; don't use them just to follow the crowd. Yes, they're easier to make powerful. Yes, EV/IV training seems to bounce off of them and they don't need it to be good. Yes, because of cases like that it's a good idea to ban or limit them in some tournaments out of fairness/to encourage originality. But the reason you play Pokemon and raise the ones you do the way you do is because you enjoy playing the game that way, and as long as you're honest about it there's nothing wrong with enjoying a team that contains legendaries or ubers. (Even though I'm trying to raise an all Eeveelution team for the finals, if I can get it done in time and I'm allowed to change teams...)

[Silv]

Every Pokemon involves strategy. And most legendaries can be set up. One Dragon Dance on Rayquazza or one Calm Mind with Mewtwo makes for a dead party of Pokemon. So you better just hope you happened to have the right Pokemon out before the legendary sets itself up.

If you have a smart trainer using non-legendaries against a mediocre trainer using a team of all legendaries, the mediocre trainer still has as much of a chance as winning as the smart trainer simply because of far superior stats. And if you have a smart trainer with a team of legendaries, you're basically in God Mode. I consider myself to be a smart trainer. I've been into breeding and EV training for a while, and am always thinking of possible battle scenarios and optimization in my spare time. If I were to just put those smarts into a team of legendaries, I'd bet my life on me winning all of Journey Across America, I'd be so sure of myself.

But I really can't bring myself to doing something like that, since I'd get no satisfaction out of it.

Sure, battling against legendaries is a fun challenge for me, but in terms of say a tournament, with a highly expensive prize at steak, I'd want the match to be fair. Simply a battle of skill and superior strategy. Legendaries seem to give an unfair advanage. And being on GameFAQs a lot, I know that there are a lot of strategy masters using teams of legendaries.

Another reason I'm anti-legendary is this, which isn't really a matter of fair battling, but more so realistic battling. The whole idea of a legendary is that they're just that...legendary. In the world of Pokemon legendary Pokemon carve out the mountains and oceans in ancient times, while others control the very weather. These things are more like gods than actual animals that could be caught in the wild. With some exceptions there each is one of a kind, and doesn't show much proof of actual existence. Just picture the world of Pokemon...two kid trainers run into each other at the park and challenge each other to a battle. One sends out Kyogre...the other sends out Zapdos. It's just silly. In some cases, I could see it making sense, like with the Cipher Admins. I mean, they're basically evil overlords with lots of power at their disposal to begin with, so that I see making some sense. But every little punk kid having Rayquaza? No. And that's basically what it's like when you go to a tourney.

If I were the one making the games, I wouldn't make any legendaries obtainable. I'd make them truely legendary, meaning the only way to get them, is not simply by going to a Nintendo event, but going to a Nintendo event and winning a tournement. That would basically make it something that lives up to its name. A legendary Pokemon was something hard-earned, not some guy in a cave that any kid could get his greasy hands on.

[Phoenixsong]

Entirely true, entirely true. All I'm saying is that if you happen to like something like Lugia or whatever, and not just because it's got ungodly strength but because you actually find Lugia itself intriguing or cool, then people shouldn't necessarily start shouting at you about it. The whole point of there being 386 Pokemon is so that no team of six is exactly the same, and there's room for people to experiment with just what they like and what their style/personality is all about. You don't get that (at least, not to the same degree) with other party-battle RPGs. Of course, using Lugia just because you like it for what it is and using Lugia because its stats go through the roof with little effort are two entirely different things. Yeah, there shouldn't be quite so many legendaries floating around, but people shouldn't jump down your throat just because there's a Lugia and a Groudon in your party. As long as they're not being little idiots who just like the raw power and have no idea what they're doing, then you should at least be polite enough to acknowledge that they're going with what they like and it's working for them. The game is fully customizable and, well, the legendaries are in there and there's nothing any of us can do about it. So they're going to show up no matter what, and sometimes you just have to be a good sport about it and not whine about uber-unfair legendaries.

...People with six Mewtwos that only use Hyper Beam, on the other hand, deserve to have the bejesus beat out of them with an ugly stick. That's just stupid.

[Blademaster]

Not to be a moron, but what does 'Uber' literally translate into? :confused: :redface:

[mr_pikachu]

I do love Wikipedia sometimes.


The word über comes from the German language. It is a cognate of both Latin super and Greek ύπερ (hyper), as well as English over (as in "overkill"). During the late 1990s, über also became a synonym for super; i.e. übercool - supercool - generally with a slightly intensified meaning. Über is commonly written as uber in English, though with slightly different meaning.

The normal transliteration for the 'ü'-Umlaut when changing from German would be ue, not just 'u', however it could be argued that American English use of the word uber is a new word distinct from ueber. This is because English is defined by common use of words, which dictionaries and academia record, not the reverse. The use of 'ü', 'u', and 'ue' in the word is a emerging trend in common usage with no clear consensus.

In German, über is used as a prefix as well as a separate word. In the latter case, it may be a preposition or an adverb depending on context. Eg. sprechen über - speak about, über die Brücke - over the bridge, übernehmen - take over (nehmen = take).

Über also translates to over, above and superior. The actual translation depends on context. One example would be the term Übermensch from Friedrich Nietzsche, which translates to superior human or superman (literally "overhuman"). It is assumed that it is via this translation that the word über entered the English vocabulary (cf. calque). Another word that Über is said to have come from is uber-cracking, but this theory has been proved wrong. The word uber-cracking comes from the german word.