Deck Knight's "rebellion thingie"

[Little_Pikachu]

Erk... I've never used the "Copy Thread" moderator function before, and it looks like I messed up. So I'll try to repost what was on the other thread... But first, here's the copy I got of his original PM. I'll edit in a rebuttal:

Originally PM'd by "Freedom Knight":
Freedom Knight wrote on 02-17-2003 02:58 PM:
Good morning/evening/whenever, fellow ASB’ers. Many of us have been displeased with how Imp is running(or ruining, rather) our ASB. Many people before have had problems, but have been too afraid of Imp going ballistic on them. So, we have a list of all the ASB’ers who have a random number assigned, voice your opinion, and your number will show up with what you said, being posted by a brave(or just insanely stupid) soul.

Well, there's not terribly much risk of actual punishment, whatever you say. I can count on zero hands the number of people who have suffered a banning, even a temporary forum ban, at either my request or ASHarris's request. Clearly, nobody is all that much at risk here.

Here within This PM, I want you to review some recent evidence, and then give us your opinion. Send it back to the person who sent this to you, and he will tell this brave soul your opinion, and tell you your random number. The quotes are rather long, and are put in [ ]. So it may take a few days to review, but no matter what your opinion, it will be posted.

Come on, now... I know you left some opinions out. I have chat transcripts.

Impereon:
[Excellent. Optimal results for our gamble, Linux.

I direct the attention of the audience to the attack list, specifically the entry called "Bide". Bide is a move that returns the damage that was dealt to the user in the same element that it originated as. Three Night Shades should directly hit Linux, each of them doing an exceptional amount of damage due to the great efficacy of ghost attacks on ghost bodies. Linux then stores this damage, and retaliates with an über ghost attack with approximately the same base power as the attacks that hit him... at the time they hit his body, not at the time they were produced in the first place. So when they hit his ghostly opponent, they will do even MORE damage, since poor Fata Morgana has no defense against her own ghostly deceits.

When the attack list was written, I set the description of Bide as it is specifically to prevent this trick from being easily done. But the kindly Don'tRunWithScizors has set up the ONE situation in which Bide still has the devestatingly optimal results... An opponent that uses a supereffective attack that it itself is weak against... I did not expect him to actually do this when I directed Linux to change to ghost/poison instead of, say, dark, but it appears we successfully led the last couple rounds of battle, to our opponents' dismay.]

Quoted strait from Imp Himself, In a battle VS DRWS. Now, is it my mistake that it’s the REF who interprets the move, NOT the user? Imp has written the Attack List Beta, so chances are that ONE situation for optimal results exist, Chances are, Imp has made that situation known only to himself, since he seems to have all the cards when it comes to interpreting the attacks list HE wrote.

I challenge anyone to justify Bide as it was reffed in that match. Any point when a pokémon is ruled to spontaneously suffer 80% or more damage, essentially declaring an instant loss from very high health from its own attack with no conceivable advantage, is probably not what the attack list has in mind. If it did have that in mind, then the attack list has to change.

A little background on Bide might help people understand what exactly I was referring to. I figured people understood already, but now that I think about it there's no way the newer members possibly could, right? Basically, the pre-Attack List Bide was exactly like the gameboy version. You take the damage the Bider suffered, and double it exactly. That becomes the damage the other pokémon suffers. So if you dealt 30% in one round, and your opponent Bided it all, your own pokémon would automatically take 60%, usually more than enough to cripple it even if you were winning before. Consequently, battles were all too often decided by who connected with Bide the most.

When I wrote the attack list, I had two game-mechanic-oriented goals in mind: First, I needed to rein in overpowered moves, so that no move was impossible to get along without. Second, I needed to try to make sure every move allowed for some conceivable use, so that every move served some useful purpose, under the right conditions. Bide was overpowered before, but if I did something like "Bide automatically does damage equal to the damage the user suffered" it would become underpowered and useless. The Bide I settled on was weak in certain situations but really shined in others.

Essentially, the return pulse of the Bide would retain its type, rather than applying a brute multiplier. So if you Bided a set of Thunderbolts back into an Electabuzz, it would have its type resistance to the Bide, and therefore not suffer as badly. If a Starmie Thunderbolted you, though, it would have a type weakness instead of a resistance, so it would hurt a lot more if you Bided at just the right time. Consequently, the new Bide (at least in my estimation, and anyone is invited to dispute this in the attack list tower) is more strategic than the old, since in order to get a good effect from it you have to #1: Convince your opponent to use attacks that it is weak against and #2: Bide those attacks at just the correct moment for maximum effect. If you muff either of these things up, the Bide won't do nearly as well.

Yeah, I'll probably have to touch up Bide in the future. It seems to have been described a little more obtuse than it should've been. A mistake on my part, sorry about that.[/i]

Now, onto another piece of literature involving Imp and another fellow.

Mozz:
[I have been asked to ref this match. I am not a "ranked" ref, but then again, I don't ref here much. DRWS knows me, as does Impereon, so I have nothing to worry, I'd hope.]

For all of those players who don't know, Mozz is the owner of BMG, one of the two home sites of the PASBL, the biggest ASB in the English-speaking internet. It would be unfair to claim that he is insufficiently competent to ref.

In the past, TPM and the PASBL have often been at odds. A petty, mindless rivalry, when in fact both ASBs are very different and have no reason to hate each other. What I wanted to do by asking Mozz, an official from the other league, to ref was because I hoped it would serve as a symbolic healing-thing between the two leagues. It apparently didn't pan out that way.

Later, by Imp:
[gamewizard007:

If you mean "rigged" in the sense that I've bothered to look at Mozz's other reffings and therefore know that in his reffings the tactics you're using are bad, then I guess it is rigged. You would have known too, however, had you bothered to find out what Mozz's reffing style was. For most experienced players, researching the referee's style is fairly routine. Prevents you from getting a nasty surprise if you run into someone who didn't just directly copy the style of one of the veterans.

Now post your attacks. Judging by Mozz's reffing style, this first part of the battle is going to be horrendously long and probably tedious, too. Both combatants are virtually immune to the entire moveset of the other, assuming we take basic defensive precautions.]

Funny, How you seemed to have read an unranked refs former matches, and thus know his style. Well, that hasn’t been awarded, apparently, to anyone other than you, now, I’m not trying to say you have a ref working for you, but…

Mozz has hundreds of reffings archived at his own ASB. I read them.

Now In the same battle, also later, by Deck Knight:
[If I may remind Mozz, Sludge Bomb is mostly liquids, Sandstorm is a well... a Storm of Sand, with strong winds and sand EVERYWHERE. chances are, the Sludge Bomb liquids will catch on pieces of sand and they will fall harmlessly to the ground. Not to mention Onix's Substitute is still up. So your chances of actually hitting the Onix, much less poisoning it through its rocky hide, are slim to none. Eyes, Nostrils, and other orfices are extremely hard to hit, even when you CAN see your opponent. (and, between Substitute and Sandstorm, chances are, Hyacinth CAN'T.]

Next post, by Imp:
[You would do well to start minding your own business, Deck Knight. I seem to remember you causing trouble in a certain DRWS/TMM match, too... Unless you have something particularly meaningful to say, keep quiet. In most battles, that won't be the case, especially if you are not what we call a "participant."]

Deck Knight drops in and spams, in my opinion. I'll freely admit that I could conceivably be biased by the fact that he's in my own battle thread, but I'd also like to point out that I had just warned him out of two other battle threads for being overbearing. Deck Knight is a frequent violator, so consequently I'm going to be a little bit more irritated with him. Whether we're talking about my battle or someone else's.

Now, if I may recall and see, Deck Knight was merely stating facts, apparently, Imp’s definition of meaningful must mean in his favor, basically, he’s saying, because Deck Knight is not the participant, any facts working against Imp’s favor should be null and void. Gee… so not flaming in any way (did YOU see any ACTUAL insults), stating facts relevant to the battle, and not agreeing with Imp are apparently SPAM now. Gee, I wonder WHO decided that? (Imp).

Evidently, facts are highly mutable. I honestly did not and do not see any useful input from Deck Knight.

Later, by Deck Knight(with quote from mozz):
[quote:
Originally posted by The Mozz
I have an idea. DK, if you think you know Sludge Bomb, tell me how it's a liquid after you watch the Raikou Special.

I'll ref it how I see it, not taking into account any post which doesn't contain the attacks for this upcoming round.

Reffing soon.

I can't comment on the Raikou Special. I haven't seen it. If anybody wants to say that they saw a move do something a certain way on the Raikou Special, I can't hope to refute them.

Sludge Bomb: The user spits out a glob of darkish LIQUID. This glob is viscous and hangs together well enough to be spat a fairly long way, where it proceeds to splatter. This LIQUID is very acidic, and anything that comes in contact with it may be either burned or poisoned. Good damage. Good accuracy.

Straight from the Attack List Beta. Now Mozz, you can use the Raikou special, or use Imps very own description (it is, after all, his battle), it's really up to you.]

The description for Sludge Bomb currently on the attack list is based mostly on guesswork and the game. This was all I had to work with... When the next big patch goes into the move list, chances are Sludge Bomb will be modified.

Now, the last bit of evidence for this part, from Imp:

[Hmm...

Referee harassment, verbal abuse, lying about the league rules, spamming, match interference, poor sportsmanship...

And to top it all off, you accuse me of cheating.

I'm closing this. Since clearly I am not viewed by certain parties as an impartial source, ASHarris can clean this up when she comes back. I suspect she'll agree that there's a grievous problem present.]

Referee Harassment, Verbal abuse, Spamming, and Match interference, and Poor sportsmanship, That can all just be regarded as about Deck Knight’s post stating facts of the definition of Sludge Bomb, apparently, all those rules are broken as soon as Imp doesn’t get his way with the laws of physics. As for Lying about the League rules, The ref is free to interpret attacks how he wishes, Deck Knight was just stating what would happen if this were to occur according to REAL physics, not Imp physics.

Deck Knight and GameWizard007 ambushed Mozz in a private chat and then attempted to bully him into reffing in their favor. If anyone thinks that this is appropriate, I'd sincerely like to hear your reasoning. The transcript will be posted as soon as I finish typing up my rebuttals.

Lastly, by ASHarris:

[Can I not be sick in peace?

Of course not. That would make too much sense.

I'll deal with this in full tomorrow. My mother would scream if she knew that I'm out of bed right now. She might even use my middle name, which is never a good sign.

But just to make it perfectly clear: gamewizard007, Deck Knight, I am not impressed. Not at all. And you've picked a bad time to make me upset with you to any degree. For your sake, I hope you keep an extremely low profile between now and when I return to clean up your mess.]

Hmmm, now, Imp seems to be the only one evading trouble here, I wonder why, maybe its because he is a Mod, and not subject to any other rules and regulations, it appears he was the one doing the insulting earlier.

On the other hand, it might also be reasonable to think that perhaps bullying a ref to extract more favorable reffings might be inappropriate in ASHarris's opinion, too. Anyone else think this might be possible?

Let us also look at some professional grade stuff that affects EVERYONE, like, the Economy.

Ever since Imp was instated, prices have been upped severely, and WHY? Because a FEW ASBers had LOTS of money. Now, he ups the prices so only the rich can pay, what does that leave for people who have less than 20? Nothing.

I have ¥0. I can't afford anything either, for the time being.

The old economic system was even less newbie-friendly. Basically, when the businesses started, pokéballs were ¥2. But since there was no overhead, money that was paid to the businesses stayed in the businesses, so business owners who got ten people to buy from them had ¥20 to buy 10 free pokémon. These would be purchased from a second business owner, who would then come back to the first business owner and spend that ¥20 again to buy 10 MORE pokémon. In this way, newbies were left in the dust. To fix this, old Business Heads took to the practice of increasing the prices every so often, so a business owner with ¥20 could suddenly only buy, say, 2 pokémon. Yet this put even 1 pokémon out of the reach of newbies.

In the new system, I'll fully grant that the prices are still out of the reach of newbies. However, for the first time ever, prices are able to go DOWN rather than up, and consequently they should fall back into newbie range eventually. I've already suggested a faster method of getting them into newbie range: Reset all bank accounts. However, it got voted down by people like Deck Knight. So I have to do this the slow way. Democracy has cons as well as pros, I guess.

In fact, his New “Free-for-All” Tourney, he bluntly stated it was to throw the rich peoples money in a money abyss, and with a 500¥ entry fee and 200¥ per salvage ball, guess who COULDN’T enter the tourney. It was probably you. Thus, “Free” and “for All” was a pretty misleading title. In fact, Imp has set up a “money abyss” for this.

Let's take care of the obvious first. From Webster's New World Dictionary:

"'free-for-all' n. a disorganized, general fight; brawl"

Anyone who thinks "free-for-all" means something else should take it up with Webster, not with me.

Imp:
[Just to make a couple things clear...

Neither I nor ASHarris is getting so much as a red cent from this tournament. This is not a tournament in the sense of a business tournament; the entry fees will be taken and burned, essentially. Or if you want a story explanation, they go straight to Sylph, the stockholders of which are not among our number. You will be able to use your Salvage Balls however you like in the bounds of the arena. If you play well enough there are going to be exceedingly excellent prizes, well worth the price of admission. If you play poorly... Well, it won't be worth what you paid. But that's the concept of competition, is it not? There are many, many prizes, and you can take your pick of what you're skilled enough to find and keep. The better stuff, obviously, is going to be tougher to get, but honestly... didn't that occur to you without me pointing it out?]

There you have it, the money goes to a money abyss.

[i]How, exactly, is it a bad thing to entertain the players of ASB while simultaneously working to improve ASB? ASHarris and I have been working hard on the tourney, and I think a certain couple people have been unreasonable. And it isn't like those few people left out (and they have to be left out no matter what, if only because there's no way we'd ever manage to ref a monster tourney with two or three times as many players) don't have other things to do. I just approved a couple of other tournaments, what's wrong with them?

Incidentally, it is a delicate matter to balance the value of the tournament winnings so that they are worth the entry prize YET do not provide unsurmountable advantages to those who entered. I believe that ASHarris and I have successfully straddled that line.

To close, Imp says he is the harborer of democracy, so, with your votes, he shall see what his “democracy” thinks of him. He may act like everyone has had their fair say, but I don’t recall the poorer people (or even the richer) asking for the prices to be increased exponentially. I don’t recall anyone voting on whether Imp should be exempt from his own rules, and I certainly don’t recall voting for Imp to impose the fear of voicing our opinions against his rule! Its time for the Impire to come down!

None of these things have actually happened. I realize you're trying to be dramatic, but you're also being false.

[Yumemiru]

Originally posted by Deck Knight
Well, If I may quote Imp from a topic I stumbled on not too long ago concerning Mozz's complaining.

Insulting a League Official/Forum Moderator behind his back: the one true path to friendship and influence.~Imp.

Though I'm 110% sure that was sarcasm, I'm just going to pretend its true.

Does this mean I can insult a League Official/Forum Moderater to his face now?~my rebutal

Well Imp, You asked for it, I do indeed have influence and friendship, at least among the unnamed below, I of course, am risking my butt, since It was my idea in general to start this, and my key plan, though not yet matured, is good enough now, I think some people were just afraid, others disliked the whole alias thing, bah, the best things are done by those who plan them. If you all recieved a PM from Freedom Knight, just PM whatever your opinion is back to me, you know what I'm talking about.

So Imp, whatever you plan to do with this topic, don't be hasty, since I have saved this document in the event you may try to cover it up, so don't even think about using your mod powers to delete/close it. It takes a mere Copy/Paste job to restore it.

Btw. all the numbers are randomized as are the names, so short of banning the whole ASB, you have NO way of knowing who said what, (you aren't squeezing info from me).

So I shall begin.

#1-and so it begins...-"Well the facts you've shown deem to be validating in my eyes. I'm noticing how the ASB seems more like a dictatorship instead of the democracy that Impereon seems to claim. Also the stuff he did to the business was truly unfair for both business workers and the other ASBers, or you can just plainly say it was unfair for the whole ASB. The whole ASB ends up getting screwed up economy wise just for getting rid of yen from the rich. I'm also disappointed in how he handled those battles you've shown me. Impereon shouldn't have been given modship in the first place if you ask me and I'm glad there are some people in this ASB who think so too."

#2-Errr...-"Imp sucks! He doesn't deserve to be a mod. I am on your side, Freedom Knight!!! Lets get Imp demodded!"

#7-???- "Impereon Char and ASHarris are too rigid (frigid biatches), sanctimonious and not compassionate enough. If there must be villains, please split yourselves equally."

#18-still going-"Ummm... Yeah, sounds good to me. I'm all for rebellion and all that stuff, I guess. You've got some nice reasoning there, but it's kind of one-sided... I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that, every document like this is the same way. Just noting that Imp COULD have reasons."

This one is somewhat for and somewhat against you, I said all opinions, not all in my favor, just to prove it to you.

#20-Bah- "I agree, All of this Raising prises is just a stupid scam.It's making it hard for people with low cash flow to enjoy ASB. Also that part about him rigging the reffing then closing it when he didnt get his way, I believe thats simply abusing his power. If some one cheats even a high ranked official, they don't have the right to bend the rules to there will. Whats the point in rules if only a very few abide by them?"


#21-Meh-"I agree. Put me on your list. I'm new to ASB, but not to battling. I agree with all written against Imp(see Sooty's detaled bit below)."


#22-I bet you want to know- Imp and ASHarris bark out at me for trying give CERTIAN opinions on how ASB works and on how everything Imp and ASHarris ref, aint it so lucky that when their pokemon dies, they just somehow get in a lucky shot of Toxic/Curse/or some other cheap move dont u think?

I do to think Imp is abusing his own rules to his will, barking at any person who replys to something regarding him or ASHarris or anythign else that he wishes.

ANd also, ASB is a community NOT a kingdom for whoever owns it makes changes at his/her will, it takes the whole community to vote on something, not Imp doing what he wishes INCLUDING biasing some certian ppl I KNOW.

The only Reason Imp Got his Mod spot was because of tyger and the other abusin mods of ASB iv seen in the past, The so Called "Vets". Taking action on little things that should not have been done.

The Current Mods should be disregarded and rechosen by the Ppl of ASB in a vote, for ASB should be a fun place not a backstabbing, money eating, Industrail like, baise reffin place for the ASBer's.

For all the opinions i'v gave to ASB and for the some that were in the right place i deserved being barked at and the ones not, This is #22 telling you all that I'm agianst the Current ASB and should be changed for the sake of everyone to fun, not stressing.

#30-*insert unkowing comment here*-"ASB seems to be managed rather badly, with many blatantly stupid and possibly exploitable rules, and too many idiots with too much power. It's an improvement from what it used to be, but is still pretty bad, and something needs to be changed."

#31-Wouldn't YOU like to know- "I agree, some bad mistakes have been made in ASB in the past months, since I joined, I hate the economy, afterall, if this was suppossed to be like real life, then we wouldn't have anything to fight with!!
Some of these mistakes have been made on purpose, which bothers me even more, and I wish for a change."

And now, an opinion SO FRIGGIN LONG, I can't even read the whole thing

#37-Sooty(by his request only, you lucky dog)-

"Thank you, Brave Soul. I have found myself doing much more subtle acts to harass, if not end imp and a few other's reign, if not end it. It is certainly a courageous step forward to rally others. Before I post any opinions... may I have one request. I want to have my name revealed, since what I'm about to say would easily decode me from the numbers.

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Impereon has indeed displayed a huge array of talents, including battling, arguing, remaining poised no matter what, being sarcastic or persuasive and very logical, and more I'd list that'll probably be repetitive, insulting or some other crap people (*ahem*) would just quote me on and flame me (or rather, debate me on) senseless.

I have consulted some others as well, so I'll say a little about those though I'd just be reiterating their words unless they are away from TPM totally. I would like to begin with them, though there is one I would rather save for comic relief.


==============================================


quote:
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[X: Its all too "I said that can't happen. Case Closed ect ect"
IamSooty: that's 4 of us
IamSooty: me, Y, Z and X]
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This quote relates to how the mods reacted to the intervention of DeckKnight and gamewizard. Evidently, some of us really can't stand you, my dear mods.


quote:
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[X: I hate ASB, that's why I love Fanfic
IamSooty: Fanfic is alot more different
IamSooty: their political system are two extremes, I might say
X: Whatcha think about Fic?
IamSooty: ASB is competition, dog eat dog, whereas fanfic is more of a commune, people respect others to gain respect, and not gain power to gain respect
X: Yeah
IamSooty: The mods in fanfic are benevolent, but those in ASB are ruthless, rules-abiding and hardly understanding
X: Heh, ASB is bad]
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"ruthless, rules abiding and hardly understanding"
You will hear this again later. Of course, that was a nice lil SWEEPING STATEMENT. They might not apply to some of the oldest mods in TPMASB history, but it certainly starts off being so with Sniper and Tyger.


quote:
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[Z: i just reckon its like polatics
Z: i rather not be involved]
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Ahh!!! An innocent little kid. Well Z doesn't like this either. (Z is not in ASB anymore)


quote:
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[Sooty: the very serious, very intimidating and not to be trifled with
Sooty: Remember sniper and tyger and IE?
Y: i almost left the asb in the summer cause of the seriousness of the asb and b/c i jus plainly hated the people in power
Y: yep
Sooty: well those ARE stereotypes
Sooty: There must be some creativity amongst the seriousness
Sooty: Now tell me, who has used a Yanma in a battle?
Sooty: Nope, no one has a themed team
Y: i only know that metalkafable to have a yanma
Sooty: no personality, post 3 attacks and wait a few days for the ref to do what he wants, ref doesn't come, start bitching for a sub ref, and after 1 month the battle is forgotten
Y: lol
Sooty: Where's the 'anime style'?
Y: my asb team is full of clowns
Sooty: I don't think anime style is just...
Y: *shrugs* gone
Sooty: "Pikachu: ^^
OK PIKA! GO!
Pika: (something stupid)
..... QUICK!
(3 attacks0
Sooty: it's REALLY like this
Sooty: that's the anime part
Sooty: And yeah, we're ranting
Sooty: that's bad
Sooty: lol
Sooty: Look at this, it's so ironic.....
Sooty: Ultimate Charizard
Moderator
Well i finally won my first match, unfortunately it was by forfeit but im told i still get the winnings so.......

I get 1 whole yen from this 1 on 1

Which takes me to a grand total of 11¥

Sooty: Charizard04621
wheevee

quote:
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Originally posted by Charizard04621
Had 3¥ last time.

Got 120¥: Reffing Paycheck

Total = 123¥.
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Collecting Weekly Approver's Paycheck. 25¥, no link.

Total=158Â¥.
*** Your previous message has not been sent. Reason: Maximum length exceeded.
Sooty: Charizard04621
quote:
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Originally posted by Charizard04621
Had 3¥ last time.

Got 120¥: Reffing Paycheck

Total = 123¥.
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Collecting Weekly Approver's Paycheck. 25¥, no link.

Total=158¥.
Y: lol
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Another interesting prelude to what I'm about to say about the current system. ...

but wait, there's more...

Next, I would like to follow up by reminiscing events... mmm



quote:
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Originally posted by Tyger The Cornucopian:
Dragon_king, sooty and anyone else who tries to influence the ref once again in this battle, you shall be punished or even DQ’ed from the battle.
I have seen the reffing, it is perfectly alright, Pokemon don't follow the word of their trainer WORD FOR WORD, they can deviate. They are intelligent creatures as well as it has been seen many times. Therefore I suggest D_K you delete your latest post above mine, and accept the reffing for what it is. As i don't see a reason for it to be re-reffed. As head ref, I find the reffing suitable. Another such outburst and there shall be some consequences to be faced.
Also Sooty, you influenced the ref a few posts above, you don't dictate how an attack works. You, yourself said that a few posts above. I find that truly hypocritical. This is the second such post I’ve seen from you truly disregarding ASB rules. Although they broke them on two different accords, But as of now i am willing to let you off the hook.
Mana_Weed, don't worry your reffing is legal and it will stand w/o any changes being made to it. IF any changes are made by you, i will hold you in contempt and that will not even require a single warning since THAT IS FLAGRANT disregard of the rules.
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Mmmm... the flagrance of smoke, oops, fragrance.


quote:
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Originally posted by Tyger The Cornucopian:
Also Sooty, you influenced the ref a few posts above, you don't dictate how an attack works. You, yourself said that a few posts above. I find that truly hypocritical. THis is the second such post i've seen from you truly disregarding ASB rules. Although they broke them on two different accords, But as of now i am willing to let you off the hook.

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quote:
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Tyger: Also Sooty, you influenced the ref a few posts above, you don't dictate how an attack works
DK (Dragon King): Impereon HAS done the same, and is even doing so in our battle (me and imp), and i do not see anything wrong with it. clarification /= influence
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quote:
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Impereon:
When you argue with an approver, something like this can happen. So think hard whether you want to argue with an approver.
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quote:
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Originally posted by Tyger:
I will edit mana_weed's post if he complies to maybe change the damage done a little… …
N/m I'm not even going to hcange the mana_weed's reffing. It shall stay the same. And that's it.
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I have quite alot to say about this. First off, the reason I still have these saved in my computer because I figured they'd come in useful from time to time. I was anticipating something like this. Or maybe it was premonition! *looks at the second quote in this section*

Just some base of my arguments to come later... look on.

==============================================

Some quotes fairly recent. More base and laughter. Kobold lord is Impereon, in case you peeps don't know =)


quote:
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Kobold Lord: Kobolds were basically the coolest monsters in 1E and 2E AD&D.
Kobold Lord: Yes... Well, the computer games never give kobolds their true majesty.
Kobold Lord: If you ever get a chance, dig up Dragon Mountain for 2E and run it with your friends.
Kobold Lord: It's an entire mountain full of kobolds, and the Mountain is designed to kill L15 parties.
Kobold Lord: And no, they don't use "swarm with infinite cannon fodder and bury them under the corpses of our dead" method used in the computer games.
Sooty: How then? Guerilla tactics? Traps?
Kobold Lord: Dragon Mountain simply makes the kobolds as smart as they logically should be, considering they're supposed to be as intelligent as humans.
Sooty: That'll be pretty impossible socially
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I skipped some of my ramblings on my experience with roleplaying between his messages. I was being subtle, a little suggestive, but I guess he didn't have to catch the drift on the topic...


quote:
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Sooty: Char says... Ditto: No moves take up zero turns. I remember this sig as well... Tyger smashed it when he was Head Approver. Find a new sig, please.
Kobold Lord: Tyger did tell you to find a new sig... And now, so will we.
Kobold Lord: You always use an action to activate a sig, no matter what.
Sooty: But but but but but =O
Sooty: Does it really matter what tyger says
Kobold Lord: Well... yes. But more because it annoys me when people try to weasel their way around the rulings than anything else.
Sooty: Rulings? What rulings?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



There, this links back to the second bigger portion of the sources I have. Only the recent approval tower has the clause stating that all signature moves requires a turn to activate. Before that, they were following strictly to Tyger's rules, but then again, I have not seen them stating anywhere that they are revising the old rules.... more on this later.

==============================================

...

You guessed it, still more.

...

The first and perhaps the biggest problem of this impire and his advocates now are, few likes them. They might not state so directly, but you can be certain some of them are NOT happy at all, how the ASB is degenerate and practically the online incarnate of the broken central-business-district-society-present-in-large-companies. I'm going to start with the problem of the rules set.

While forming a utopian ASB (for us, heh), dear mods, is that there is a lack of sense in many rules now. Some of the rules can be THAT awkward. I know there is a clause stating that there is no sig that can have 100% accuracy, but ask yourself, under the conditions where your target is a dummy doll, sitting there waiting for you to try out and attack on it, how can it EVER miss? This value is not consistent at all. Does it show the accuracy when you do it from 100 metres away, or does it show the accuracy when you do it point blank? Since circumstances decrease the accuracy of a move, then it should not be considered in the signature itself.

Sense, sense, sense. Sense is everything. If I have a signature that involves gathering spit in a pokemon’s mouth and readying itself for battle, shouldn’t the accuracy be base 100%? The accuracy should only be reduced if I do it when moving, if it is confused or tries to do it while a sandstorm is going on. My point? Scrap the whole accuracy thing. Only some impossible refs bother to randomize and make a 90%-accuracy-sig used on a sleeping pokemon miss because it rolled a 1 out of 10. Absolute nonsense. And it allows chance for prejudice. The Impereon I know should know better than to allow such atrocious rules to be carried over from Tyger's rule. Remember again, you never did require our opinions on the rules.

Then again, even the most important rule of all doesn't make sense. 3 Actions per round, 3 Turns per round, 3 x (time in seconds) per round. None of them make sense at all. Fine, this is a forum ASB, this weird system is an 'environment' you have to adapt to, but this isn't logical, and we can’t do anything about it yet.

The economy here is TERRIBLE I tell you. 1 yen for a 1v1 battle vs 120 yen for a ref paycheck/week. Where is this? Vietnam?

The current rules need ALOT of revising, and to do that, you need to consider everyone's opinion and simply ignore the apathetic ones. Many would hate a change just because they fear the change will kill them.

Moving on to the problem of the lack of creativity beacuse of the mod's inability to embrace 'Anime Style'. There is simply not enough incentive to go ANIME. People don't go for an all Same-Type team because
1) They can only think of so many Flying related sigs, they don't wanna screw themselves over.
2) Why do so when vets will probably own you as their collection consists of at least 6 pokemon per type will beat you senseless.
3) No one else does so.

In anime, you can see clearly that the Gyms all have a theme. Their pokemon are 'designed' to suit their gym, their style of battling doesn't involve massive willpower because they are not the protaganists of the anime. Utterly crappy port over version of the Anime by ASB. Alot of pokes are avoided like Yanma, Wobbufet, Smeargle. ASB simply doesn't seem to allow them to perform at all.

Enough of my comments on the problems of ASB itself before I am actually challenged to run ASB myself. If Impereon is unable to share his views with everyone, his thoughts and reasons, he would be unable to appease the crowd. If Impereon is unable to give everyone a say, then the crowd will never fail to displease him.


Now for the more personal rants. I am disgusted by the attitude of some now.
*Not holding back anymore*
For example, Charizard04621. Recently I've had one of my signatures being questioned without a question in the approval tower. She made it very difficult for me by not trying to understand what two of the sentences actually meant and simply put them down. I explained it twice to her and in the end it was syb who approved me.

"I said that can't happen. Case Closed ect ect"

This is exactly what happens around here… How is that democracy? Drawing from other sources, Impereon also said approvers (mods @_@) are not to be trifled with. He's damned right and what did I have to do? I have to act cute, sad, and pathetic to get through. If I went the hard way, even Syberia wouldn't have approved that signature. Well I am not cute, sad and pathetic now because I don't have to bow down here.



quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IamSooty: No animosities between us, please
Charizard04621 : *shrug* Why would there be?
Charizard04621 : people disagree all the time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bull****.


Look carefully now, many of you keep reiterating Tyger's words and rules, but never fail to disobey them when you feel like it. And once someone sees it's been silently declared as legit/legal, everyone starts to follow.

Impereon began the 'wave' of "Do as you see fit" commands, he also began the "Influencing the ref" technique, the "Reiterate what attacks do normally and would do over here" style. I would kindly repost some of Tyger's quotes.

(Do as you see fit)
I have seen the reffing, it is perfectly alright, Pokemon don't follow the word of their trainer WORD FOR WORD, they can deviate. They are intelligent creatures as well as it has been seen many times. Therefore I suggest D_K you delete your latest post above mine, and accept the reffing for what it is.

(Influencing the ref)
"Dragon_king, sooty and anyone else who tries to influence the ref once again in this battle, you shall be punished or even DQ’ed from the battle."

(Reiterate what attacks do normally and would do over here)
"Also Sooty, you influenced the ref a few posts above, you don't dictate how an attack works."

Apparently, they should all be against the rules which tyger set. Not anymore, I guess.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charizard04621 : sorry, rules are a lot stricter now
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Heh. For the rest of us, luv.

Of course, the more proper commands, techniques, styles and decisions began by Imp like "Doing nothing to recover fatigue" is a clear upgrade in the standard of battling. Thumbs up for that Imp, but thumps down for being so unintentionally? sneaky about the rules.

Next, I want to touch on attitude.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Impereon:
When you argue with an approver, something like this can happen. So think hard whether you want to argue with an approver.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"something like this" obviously means "nothing good". What caused Impereon to say this was because I argued with IE, an ex-mod of the ASB, over a sig he just continuously said "No" to with no reason, no explanation or whatsoever suggestions attached.

*Elongated cusses about that attitude around 5 lines long*

Fine, so the such incidents doesn't happen anymore. But the horrid attitude is still present in certain people.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I should purposely skip your post for being such an impatient nuisance, but I take pity on your pathetic plight.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Can't that person, no matter who she is, simply reply that the time taken is usually that long instead of immediately giving a newcomer the frown? Then again maybe the ASB should have some villains to be interesting. Watch your lieges Impy.

...

Still not done :D X_X

...

Finally, my response to the given quotes. My personal comments will be emboldened (watch the puns ).


Impereon:
[Excellent. Optimal results for our gamble, Linux.

I direct the …]

Quoted strait from Imp Himself, In a battle VS DRWS. Now, is it my mistake that it’s the REF who interprets the move, NOT the user? Imp has written the Attack List Beta, so chances are that ONE situation for optimal results exist, Chances are, Imp has made that situation known only to himself, since he seems to have all the cards when it comes to interpreting the attacks list HE wrote.

I already touched on this point along with Tyger's Rulings as well. But this shows another HUGE problem. The attack list is something that everyone should cooperate and give ideas on. Having one person dictate how most attacks occurs and works is a blatent display of power. We're playing on your console/platform, and we don't have many choices because no one else has the ability to start it from scratch and still get everyone else into theirs. We're just using this platform that belongs to TPM, not a few single people. Show that, please.




Now, onto another piece of literature involving Imp and another fellow.

Mozz:
[I have been asked to ref this match. I am not a "ranked" ref, but then again, I don't ref here much. DRWS knows me, as does Impereon, so I have nothing to worry, I'd hope.]

Later, by Imp:
[gamewizard007:

If you mean "rigged" in the sense that I've …]

Funny, How you seemed to have read an unranked refs former matches, and thus know his style. Well, that hasn’t been awarded, apparently, to anyone other than you, now, I’m not trying to say you have a ref working for you, but…

Here comes Impereon's interpretation of things, and this 'brave soul's' interpretation of things. Neither of you are right, and I wouldn't be as well if I told you whoever is working for who. In case none of you realise, refs in the Anime are are tale-weavers, they are the man that waves the red or green flag in a battle, or the announcer of the battle. So if any sort of force dictates how attacks work, it is common sense.

The style of the ref is quite secondary, abuse it if you must, but please don't claim you know how someone is going to ref something. You are a MOD, what you say is going to affect Mozz slightly. Just because you claim you know his style doesn't mean you have an 'in game' advantage, you only have an advantage in this outside world. Just because someone claims his geodude has defeated a blastoise doesn't make his geodude better in the eyes of a ref when he fights a squirtle.



Now In the same battle, also later, by Deck Knight:
[If I may remind Mozz,...]

Next post, by Imp:
[You would do well to start minding your own business, Deck Knight...]

Now, if I may recall and see, Deck Knight was merely stating facts, apparently, Imp’s definition of meaningful must mean in his favor, basically, he’s saying, because Deck Knight is not the participant, any facts working against Imp’s favor should be null and void. Gee… so not flaming in any way (did YOU see any ACTUAL insults), stating facts relevant to the battle, and not agreeing with Imp are apparently SPAM now. Gee, I wonder WHO decided that? (Imp).

Since Imp already decided that explaning how things work is legit, both of them should have an equal chance. Who says spectators can't speak amongst themselves and spectaculate on what is about to happen? The mozz is a spectator as well, taking a neutral stand and simply carrying out the duties of allowing the match to MOVE ON.

Deck knight shouldn't have said "If I may remind Mozz", though. It probably made Imp feel as if Deck Knight wanted to directly influence the ref. But then again, if Mozz would be affected, adding that line or not wouldn't make a difference (especially after he claims he knows mozz's reffing style). I want to remind Imp again, that his posts are the MOD'S POSTS. Puts a new meaning to the word 'influence' eh?



Later, by Deck Knight(with quote from mozz):


[quote:

Originally posted by The Mozz
I have an idea. DK, if you think you know Sludge Bomb, tell me how it's a liquid after you watch the Raikou Special.

I'll ref it how I see it, not taking into account any post which doesn't contain the attacks for this upcoming round.

Reffing soon.

Tada, the mozz showz hiz powerz. But if he said "I've decided to be influenced." He'll be the joke of the day

P.S LIKE DUH, who wouldn't say that.



Sludge Bomb: The user spits out a glob of darkish LIQUID. This glob is viscous and hangs together well enough to be spat a fairly long way, where it proceeds to splatter. This LIQUID is very acidic, and anything that comes in contact with it may be either burned or poisoned. Good damage. Good accuracy.

Straight from the Attack List Beta. Now Mozz, you can use the Raikou special, or use Imps very own description (it is, after all, his battle), it's really up to you.]

Deck Knight's practically whistling over here =). Impereon uses the attack list against his opponent, spectators uses the attack list against him. Ironical.

Now, the last bit of evidence for this part, from Imp:

[Hmm...

Referee harassment, verbal abuse, lying about the league rules, spamming, match interference, poor sportsmanship...]

Referee Harassment, Verbal abuse, Spamming, and Match interference, and Poor sportsmanship, That can all just be regarded as about Deck Knight’s post stating facts of the definition of Sludge Bomb, apparently, all those rules are broken as soon as Imp doesn’t get his way with the laws of physics. As for Lying about the League rules, The ref is free to interpret attacks how he wishes, Deck Knight was just stating what would happen if this were to occur according to REAL physics, not Imp physics.

Someone tell me how the hell ASHarris will EVER disagree with our Impy *faints*. (Quote of the day, anyone?)

Impereon just used his MOD POWERS again in a MOD'S POST. Tyger's post in my battle was just an omen. This reflection shows clearly the back of the mod's palm, and his ability to swat. Now closing the topic is really pretty insulting to yourself Imp. I swear you probably regretted it after you thought about it calmly.

Lastly, by ASHarris:

[Can I not be sick in peace...]

Hmmm, now, Imp seems to be the only one evading trouble here, I wonder why, maybe its because he is a Mod, and not subject to any other rules and regulations, it appears he was the one doing the insulting earlier.

Someone tell me how the hell ASHarris will EVER disagree with our Impy *rolls eyes*. (Quote of the week, anyone?)

Let us also look at some professional grade stuff that affects EVERYONE, like, the Economy.

Ever since Imp was instated, prices have been upped severely, and WHY? Because a FEW ASBers had LOTS of money. Now, he ups the prices so only the rich can pay, what does that leave for people who have less than 20? Nothing. In fact, his New “Free-for-All” Tourney, he bluntly stated it was to throw the rich peoples money in a money abyss, and with a 500¥ entry fee and 200¥ per salvage ball, guess who COULDN’T enter the tourney. It was probably you. Thus, “Free” and “for All” was a pretty misleading title. In fact, Imp has set up a “money abyss” for this.

At the cost of eating up all the currency, Imp is going to give them Über TMs, legendaries or some overpowered crap in those salvage balls. Or otherwise just artifacts to show that the person once had alot of money and is now a pauper. Anyone who doesn't pour money into that abyss will probably find his account resetted.

This is the first step away from the pathetic economy present in ASB now, so I applaude the two mods for their effort. Hopefully it pulls through, because from what I see now, it's a remake of the lengthy 1-year GLT-like event that involves the currency instead of the Gym aspect of ASB. A little singlish to describe this... "Wait Long Long"



Imp:
[Just to make a couple things clear...]

There you have it, the money goes to a money abyss.

At least none of us has to burn with the money.

To close, Imp says he is the harborer of democracy, so, with your votes, he shall see what his “democracy” thinks of him. He may act like everyone has had their fair say, but I don’t recall the poorer people (or even the richer) asking for the prices to be increased exponentially. I don’t recall anyone voting on whether Imp should be exempt from his own rules, and I certainly don’t recall voting for Imp to impose the fear of voicing our opinions against his rule! Its time for the Impire to come down!

Hehe, maybe I won't respond to this statement =)

....

Just a li'l more

...

Sooty: Impereon you need to revise ASB from scratch. Problems include...

1) Attitude
2) Lack of true democracy
3) IMPOSSIBLE rules
4) Lack of Sense and Anime Style"

Done, now, this may come back to bite me, but Sooty does a MUCH better job at explaining things than I do. Still, however, is the fact that I needed my plan to show the feelings expressed, and Imp, unless you have a problem with humans having feelings, you can't do much, when the truth comes out, it hurts Imp.

#42-Well, I'm posting it, how should I know?- "In my personal expierience, I have found Imp to be rather pompous, overbearing, and seem to be exempt from his own rules. He has Moderator duties, his duties are to make sure his people are happy, and he has not done this well, in my opinion. He is also supposed to be the police, however, he tends to police people who disagree with him at any level, and favor those who "give bribes", so to speak. He seems to care more about the people with power, and stomp on people without it. And since he can grant powers, he can basically pick and choose who to stomp out at his whim."

#53-No more freebies for you Xp-

"I certainly agree. Although I haven't been in the ASB for a while, I have experienced my fair share of his... well... power-hungry attitude. After looking at the evidence in this PM, I can tell he hasn't changed. He really needs to shape up. Just because he can look smart on a Pokémon forum has nothing to do with if what he's doing is right. And it's not. I don't understand why he was picked to be modded in the first place. I'm guessing the mods at that time were intimidated by the way he tries to appear in his posts. Well, it doesn't fool me and my friends. If anyone, I hope Impereon sees this and knows... He needs to stop. His behavior is outrageous."


That will do it for now. Anyone else with opinions, either PM me or post it here, I have created Random Numbers for the whole lot, or, be brave and post it here. Imp. I'm the fish to fry, I have people behind me, and I'm the one who's taking the fire first! So come at me, if you will! Closing/Deleting cannot save you, I have friends who can easily repost this.

Mad props to all who gave me their opinion(whomever you may be), my accomplises, who shall go unnamed, and all of ASB, for making this a place worth fighting for!

Now. The final matter is at hand, Like I said, feel free to post, or PM me your opinion, if you don't want Imp threatening you, The truth WILL be known to him. Also thanks to Freedom Knight, my crafty alias, I didn't actually SEND the PM's, but I am the author. Imp, feel free to do what you wish, but this topic shall not die.

So Imp, you saw the beginning, there is my rebutal, do what you will, but I shall not be silenced untill all is well.

[Yumemiru]

Originally posted by Syberia
Here's a noble idea for you:
Instead of pissing everybody off, making yourself a fair share of enemies, and possibly getting yourself thrown out of here anyways, why don't you just leave instead? If you seem so against everything here and therefore unwilling to partake in it (or are you one of those hypocritical types), you should simply take this course of action and leave everything as it were. May I remind you that this is merely a game and nothing more, and if you can do no more than ***** about it, here's the door.


Originally posted by Totodile43
*sighs*

Weeellllllll

Two weeks ago you would've had my support. But some people are just too stubborn to reveal their identities. Let me ask a question... Do you donate money without knowing who it goes to? Do you sign a contract without reading it first? Do you do anything without knowing as much information as possible? No. So I dont' send my opinion on things to people I don't know, simple. Especially now that you've proven yourself as a total *** to me in both PM's and in your totally godly, absolutely all-mighty reffing skillz. Now that we all know I have a great disliking of this thing (or person, whatever you like to look at it as), let's go on knowing I have a bias.

Two weeks ago I would've said something like:

Meh, I don't like the way ASB is going, but I'm not going to do something about it. It's not just the moderators fault, but they are to blaim.

Now I say:
Stop your crying and get the **** away. If you don't like it leave. Simple. Now go before my eyes burn.


Originally posted by Deck Knight

Originally posted by Syberia
Here's a noble idea for you:
Instead of pissing everybody off, making yourself a fair share of enemies, and possibly getting yourself thrown out of here anyways, why don't you just leave instead? If you seem so against everything here and therefore unwilling to partake in it (or are you one of those hypocritical types), you should simply take this course of action and leave everything as it were. May I remind you that this is merely a game and nothing more, and if you can do no more than ***** about it, here's the door.

Oh so you mean just give up and let things continue to decline? Someones got to step up and try and fix the problem, and I'm not about to be stepped all over. Things HAVE to change, and if noones going to stand up and fix it, or die trying, then nothing will change. Big Deal, so Imp might decide to get rid of me, Well, I have supporters, I also will not tolerate anything that hurts the ASB. Your right Syb. It is just a game, but like any game, would you like there to be blatant cheaters who go about ruining the game for everyone? I thought not. I'm taking a stand, and you can either join with me, or have your precious Imp defend you untill he has no power left to fight on, and then whom will you leech off of?

There are a few people who are neutral, some just feeding off Imps power, and others who were silent and outraged. Well, I;m braking the silence! These opinions, however for or against my favor, will be known. I've taken the plunge, and now its time to swim to victory. It may be just a game to you Syb, but some of us DO want to have fun, and DO wan't a fair game. You can't please everyone, but I'm at least making an attempt, and, god willing, I shall soon have a suggestion to fix the economy. And also add in traits from RS, and do other things which must be addressed in order to make our proud game better.


Originally posted by SilverDragonair
What have I returned to? I would have stayed away from this place forever, if only I knew. I regret coming back to TPM now, after all these years... I was debating whether or not to Register again, and was visiting as a guest for a while, but this particular post compelled me to sign up once more. No one may remember me, but that's the penalty I pay, I guess.

What happened? I loved ASB. Now it is overrun by a couple of idiots who want to cause trouble and throw the moderators out of their places.

People, please have some sense.

There are no candidates for the ASB modship that I see here right now. I only see power hungry people who always want more.

This Deck Knight - He should have been banned a long time ago, but he wasn't. Why? I wish I knew. Some Administrator's slip-up, I'll bet.

As far as I have read, Deck Knight has been constantly teetering on thin ice for the past few months - constant flaming and ignoring warnings from Moderators. No doubt he wants an easy way out, huh? By ridding himself of the Moderators... By twisting the words of evidence and convincing a whole load of confused people that the Moderators are the real bad guys here.

For the second time... People, please have some sense. Who will be the Moderators of this forum if Impereon and ASHarris are gone? Certainly not opportunists like Deck Knight and The Muffin Man, who manipulate others' feelings and steer them away from the truth.

If Impereon and ASHarris had not been running this forum, there would be chaos. Can you all not see that they are just trying to help? Can you not all see that they are actually doing a better job than past Moderators?

You no longer have people running around with overpowered TMs to terrorize poor noobs. You no longer have Dark/Ghost type Eevees or flying Venusaurs. You no longer have Moderators who don't care about the economy and simply double the prices of things monthly.

Impereon and ASHarris have removed overpowered TMs and tuneups. Impereon has applied Overhead Prices on business in order to stop prices of things simply doubling every month. Did you know that's what the other Moderators did - double the prices?

The previous Moderators could not care less if the poor noob population couldn't handle prices that doubled monthly. Impereon is making an effort to get some money out of the ASB economy in order to help lower the prices of things in the long run. Nothing happens instantaneously. Have some patience, people. Did you know that Impereon is trying to hasten the ASB economy recovery with that TPMAFFAT? Look, he's even trying to help business owners to get lower overheads faster by getting rich people to use up some money in the tournament. I have not seen a Moderator that has cared more for the betterment of ASB.

People, please have some sense. I say this for the third time, because I beseech you all to think. I present this new perspective to you. Do not fall into the trap of blind rage and fury that the opportunists Deck Knight, The Muffin Man, and who knows who else have drawn you into. They know how to exploit your anger and emotion, and they do it well. They bar you from the truth to gain the power they so greedily desire.

Once again, do not be so hasty to cast away these Moderators who have worked so hard for you! I have seen many of TPMASB's years, and I can promise you that there was not a better batch before this; never a pair that cared and worked so much for the betterment of ASB, regardless of what you've been led to believe.

By the words that Deck Knight and The Muffin Man have selectively cut out and chosen to reveal to you, and the cunning way in which they presented those words, Impereon and ASHarris look like a bunch of evil dictators. I sympathize with the common ASBers, as I am (well, was) one myself. I cannot say that Impereon and ASHarris have been perfect, for they have not been, and I would be just as biased as Deck Knight and The Muffin Man in saying so.

I repeat, ASHarris and Impereon have not been perfect. They have not done everything right. There are things they have done wrong.

But considering that all was done for the betterment of ASB, and not of themselves, though some of their judgement may not have been good, ASHarris and Impereon, I'm telling you, have made the largest effort and shown the greatest concern for ASB than any other previous ASB Moderators that I have seen before.

Please reconsider. ASHarris and Impereon are not out to kill the ASB population. They want to keep it alive; they want it to thrive. But they can't do everything, and all things must come with time. In the case of the economy, we must be extremely patient, for things that have deteriorated as much as this cannot be repaired so soon.

This is SilverDragonair signing out for now. For the love of ASB, keep in place the Moderators who have worked so hard to keep this place alive and well!


Originally posted by Syberia
I leech off of noone! Am I not just as entitled to have my own opinions as you are? And before you say no, just think... do you really want to drop to the level of Impereon, who in your view is so much deserving of blame?


Originally posted by Totodile43

Originally posted by Deck Knight
Originally posted by Deck Knight
Oh so you mean just give up and let things continue to decline?

Who says anything's declining? I have no idea how long you've been at ASB, but I'm guessing you've been here longer then myself. ASB may not be perfect, in fact, I think it's one of the more flawed forums here at TPM, but it's better than it has been in the past. I'm not saying it's the best ever, but, we've seen worse, and we're definitely not going down.

Someones got to step up and try and fix the problem, and I'm not about to be stepped all over.

If we really cared that much, we'd have done something by now. Sure people may care, but not enough to even lift a finger at it. You're opinion is very valuable, but why don't you make suggestions to make ASB better, instead of blaming certain people. You and I can help ASB much more by simply giving suggestions to the mods, or if the mods do something out-of-line they get "fired." And neither ASHarris nor Impereon has done anything so totally outrageous that they've been "fired."

Things HAVE to change, and if noones going to stand up and fix it, or die trying, then nothing will change. Big Deal, so Imp might decide to get rid of me, Well, I have supporters, I also will not tolerate anything that hurts the ASB.

Obviously all your supporters have suddenly been struck ill and had dentist appointments.

Your right Syb. It is just a game, but like any game, would you like there to be blatant cheaters who go about ruining the game for everyone? I thought not.

You'd be right in making that assumption. But no one's cheating at anything. Can you give me an example of somebody "cheating?" And nobody's ruining the game for "everyone" or else I would be just as enraged as you are.

I'm taking a stand, and you can either join with me, or have your precious Imp defend you untill he has no power left to fight on, and then whom will you leech off of?

Okay, so just cuz Syb is giving opinions, it now means he's leeching off Imp? Well then, what is going to happen to all your supporters once you get banned and they don't have anyone to leech off of? See, no one's leeching off anyone. If someone gives a great idea, and others try to improve it, are they "leeching" off of someone? If a lawyer defends someone they think is not guilty in court, does that mean they're leeching off the person? Certainly not.

:D, Normally I would let this go, but I'm very tired, and I argue best when tired.


Originally posted by pokemasterfrank
I wanted to stay out of this...to be neutrul...but meh.

I have two things to say, and I will say them openly.

Bri and Mike, wtf? Bri, you told me that your little project was to let people voice their opinions without risk. I only see one side. Not to be against your, or side with Imp, but its obvious that you cut out all of the stuff that supported Imp. To hold a good rally/discussion/dethrown a mod, you should inform people from the perspectives. All you've done so far, is anger people like Kyle and Totodile. And some of the stuff you have there is a little unsupportable.

And Imp, about the Hunter thing, was a little messed up in my opinion. It could go both ways. But its the refs interpretation...and attacks are always changed constantly, correct? But attacks should be by the ASB Offical List until the other is proven, correct? I've seen times when there have been complaints that a ref did it one way, and then they bring it to a mod, saying that it happened in so-so epi/movie, and the mod says they'd have to watch that epi first before its correct. Thats the only thing in that PM that I would have sided with Freedom Knight on. But the other two things lacked enough supporting evidence, IMO.

And like I said before, I'd like to keep myself neutrul in this stand.

[Deck Knight]

Alright, I'll say it, I sincerely apologize, however, Now that I have your attention, you say you want to make ASB better. I can do that, I'm working on a characteristics for the RS pokemon, should it ever be needed.

What we need here, is for this revolution to stop, no big revolution, what we need is changes, not new leadership... at least not in Mod form anyway.

"Me:Someones got to step up and try and fix the problem, and I'm not about to be stepped all over."

"Amanda: If we really cared that much, we'd have done something by now. Sure people may care, but not enough to even lift a finger at it. You're opinion is very valuable, but why don't you make suggestions to make ASB better, instead of blaming certain people. You and I can help ASB much more by simply giving suggestions to the mods, or if the mods do something out-of-line they get "fired." And neither ASHarris nor Impereon has done anything so totally outrageous that they've been "fired." "

Checkmate: *see below*

Now, Changes MUST be made, no lying there, and if you can't make them, FIND SOMEONE WHO WILL!!! I would be glad to tackle any and all problems, and consult them with anyone interested, what we need is a group of tactical officers, who can work for the ASB to fix the problems, You two just need to hire said people. And don't make them all your lackeys, we need different ideas from different people. How about, for example, throw me in there, since I seem to be the one with the problem here. Me and some others(Mozz, Sooty, and Frank to name a few) have been brainstorming on what to do.

Also. I DO have the original, I can post it any time, butchering it won't do anyone much good. (You really think I wouldn't save a 14 page long document?).

On franks note, It was a random number system, the people had randomly generated numbers, and not even 1/2 the people the PM above(top post) awas sent to replied, so I had to make due.

[Sooty]

I suggest ending this immediately. There is no reason to continue except make everyone angry here. Imp, not that i want to waste your time, but I don't think the rebuttal is needed anymore.

This rebellion is ending. And so is the apathy of the ASBers, and so is the seemingly impossible to fix problems in ASB. We MUST stop this now and rethink all that we've done.

[Moltrecuno]

*sigh* Look what good this made... This will probably end up in flames and such so we better just do something about it before it gets worse. I personally dislike the state of the ASB right now. Before I saw ASBers more like a community instead of divided right now.

I'm not trying to be mean to you Amanda and Imp, but if anyone wants to see change in this ASB, the ASBers should work together instead of you making blind moves in front of our own eyes without our say until after whatever you did was done. That is probably why the ASB seems so screwed up now. Everyone in this ASB had little or no say in what was going on mainly because they were neutral or scared of getting in trouble. You mods don't seem like a friend to many ASBers. More like a shadow that whenever need be, enforce your power when someone screws up. I thought mods are both people of power and friends of those who you keep an eye on. To make an ASB more of a community, it has to start with the mods is all I'm saying...

To All ASBers:
Just listen and read everyone's opinions instead of jumping to conclusions. It ends in flames and it will get us no where. Think it through first before posting something

I would put more of my thoughts, but I'm getting kicked off the comp.

Bah...enjoy my two cents...

~M~

[pokemasterfrank]

As I am struggling to keep my neutrul state, I have to voice my opinion as well. Even though I have no problem with ASB as of this moment, I do find it hard to buy anything. The rules about the economy you created helped a bit, but not a lot. Me, as a n00b of ASB (well, kinda...), I have little money. I can't afford breeding, I can't afford catching Pokemon. You can limit the amount of profit each business can make instead, that would keep prices low and the people happy.

And there have been rigged battles (I'm not talking about GW vs Imp) that have not been addressed at all by the mods).

I just think that ASB needs a bit of work done upon it. If the people aren't happy, why do we have the game here for?

O_O I suggest we make a thread devoted to suggestions.

[Sooty]

Originally posted by pokemasterfrank
O_O I suggest we make a thread devoted to suggestions.

Don't post this here. Post this in the suggestion thread =)

Moltrecuno is right. Arguing is going to get us nowhere. That 10 mins you take to write up that argument and the other 5 taken for others to read it (and perhaps even reply again) sums up to a. lot. of. time.

All of us wants this to end now!!!

[The Dark Master]

I agree with Sooty and Deck and Moltrecuno and Frank.

Things must change if they are ever to be better for ASB, It's current state is pathatic. The community is dying because of the rash changes you and ASHarris make Imp! It must end, We do have ideas but when we post them, it's like you dont care, like spiting it back in our faces for us to choke on.

I dont want a war or any kind but as I see it things in ASB will never be better if are kept being broken. :(

I agree that a Thread should be made for suggestions and Ideas and to be looked upon and taken into consideration.

Are we gonna make more people mad and destroy it or makes things fun and Enjoyible for others to bring more people back to it.

[pokemasterfrank]

As I think about this, it occured to me that there is a place where people post suggestions...but they get snuffed out sometimes. We should be able to give suggestions and have them be looked at carefully, and maybe even tested out to see if its efficient, instead of saying "its been done before" or "we already have something planned". ASB is for the people, so let the people help make it a better place. And so what if its done before. There is a different group of people, and that could make the difference.

[Yumemiru]

Originally posted by Impereon
Deck Knight and GameWizard007 ambushed Mozz in a private chat and then attempted to bully him into reffing in their favor. If anyone thinks that this is appropriate, I'd sincerely like to hear your reasoning. The transcript will be posted as soon as I finish typing up my rebuttals.

Transcript. (http://www.asharris.netfirms.com/interrogation.html) I had a readily available copy of it, so I'm posting it. My apologies for the annoying Netfirms banner.

[Sooty]

I don't want to see a transcript and I don't want to see any more humiliation or flaming Impy...

Rebutting someone's thread after all our requests for 'peace' is your choice, but it does not make us think any better of anyone here. If you can get a kick out of that I have nothing to say, but I want the aftermath to be calm. I want no demoddings, no bannings, as little grudge and gossip as possible.

I think all of you need to know. My opinions resulted because of the many years of grudge started since the Tyger period (or it was just me, perhaps). On deck knight's side, he was angry because he was humiliated by the mods and mozz in UPN as mozz posted the transcript you see above there.

Can you really say that deck knight is solely responsible for this? I don't think so. We have to admit we were apathetic, as that totodile said.

What really happened was in here...
http://upn.dynup.net/vb/showthread.php?threadid=2885&perpage=15&pagenumber=1


The same transcript, just that the UPN people were allowed to make fun of Deck Knight.

edit: oh god... the link above mine has the transcript so morphed... decorated by colors and an advertisement. This is REALLY not needed, amanda.

[pokemasterfrank]

Originally posted by Imperion
Deck Knight and GameWizard007 ambushed Mozz in a private chat and then attempted to bully him into reffing in their favor. If anyone thinks that this is appropriate, I'd sincerely like to hear your reasoning. The transcript will be posted as soon as I finish typing up my rebuttals.

the only problem I have here is that you used this quote. We are trying to keep the peace here and actually help ASB. By including this quote, you give the feeling that we are the bad guys. Sure, Hunter isn't the brightest bulb in the bunch (no offense), and that Brian gets a bit crazy, it was not nessicary to include the quote. The link would have been fine.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, the link wasn't nessicary either. And adding to hunter and Brian's shame at UPN wasn't either. You probably didn't mean to, but posting the link gave off the feeling that your trying to snub us, convince everyone that we are the bad guys. I understand that you have a right to defend yourselfs, but understand that we're not here to "dethrone" you, but to make ASB a better place. We don't care if you stay as the mods of ASB for all of eternity, we just want to see some changes happen here, hopefully changes for the better.

[The Mozz]

Originally posted by Sooty
I think all of you need to know. My opinions resulted because of the many years of grudge started since the Tyger period (or it was just me, perhaps). On deck knight's side, he was angry because he was humiliated by the mods and mozz in UPN as mozz posted the transcript you see above there.

Can you really say that deck knight is solely responsible for this? I don't think so. We have to admit we were apathetic, as that totodile said.

What really happened was in here...
http://upn.dynup.net/vb/showthread.php?threadid=2885&perpage=15&pagenumber=1

The same transcript, just that the UPN people were allowed to make fun of Deck Knight.


This whole thing between DK, Impereon, GW and myself goes back to Impereon asking me to ref the match. He asked me because he believed I could ref a match free of bias. I did what I was asked, I reffed as an impartial official, but one with different standards and a different attack list than TPM is used to. That's my own fault. I apologize for coming in to TPM and reffing under my own set of rules, if that is a crime.

However, I will not apologize for posting the convo at UPN. I was invited to the chat, named Interrogation, knowing full well what was going to happen. As anyone who reads the transcript can see, I held my own, rebutting every point and simply winning the argument outright.

Why did I post it? Well, on one hand, I'm one of the, if not the top trainers at UPN/BMG PASBL, also the foremost authority on attacks, Pokemon, etc. and writer of the UPN PASBL attack list. Of course, that's just a load of BS, but that's what the people in the league say. So, sitting through a long conversation with two kids who clearly had no idea what they were talking about was something funny to me. Having two clueless people talk down to me about attacks and Pokemon was simply hilarious. So I showed it to the people at UPN, because we have a forum for funny stuff and off-topic crap. I then talked to Impereon about it, and sent it to him and Amanda because what happened in the chat went against the rules of the TPM ASB. After getting yelled at, being called stupid and biased (which is far worse of the two, IMO) by THOSE two kids, I felt that I was within my rights to post it at UPN. Consider it just desserts.

So that, in part, leads to all of this crap. Hoo-ray. It's like the American Revolution being led by the last-place finishers at the Special Olympics.

<sigh>

[Deck Knight]

Hmmm, looks like You've been busy insulting me behind my back, and I thought Mods were supposed to be mature. Well, that blows that theory out of the water.

As to Mozz: You stated you didn't care about titles, and there you listed 4 or 5. Hmmm... looks like you're beating yourself up with self-contradictions, and aside from that, I believe the point was to STOP the flames, not SPREAD them. Anyway, back to RELEVANT things...

But enough of this, its clear to see you have been sidestepping the points made. Now, we're willing to work through this and make whatever changes neccesary, to start, if this isn't a democracy, as you have just stated quite plainly, then we need to make it one. We need thew peoples opinions, but in order to do that, we need a taskforce, not 2 people who can't disagree, there NEEDS to be different opinions if we want anything good to come out of this.

Mods have a simple job, make sure everything runs smoothly and the people are moderetely happy, this isn't the case, the place is torn up.

What we CAN do, is appoint a group of relatively active ASBer's to hold a meeting(over AIM, Yahoo, etc.) to discuss possible solutions. We need more than 2 people deciding, after we come up with something, we give our plan to the people and they vote on it. If we get enough support, we can do a test run, and finally instate the change.

It sounds like a long process, but it beats you sitting in your big fancy chairs and contemplating why ASB is fading. The PEOPLE use ASB, and its the PEOPLE who should decide what goes on, not 2 head honchos who have no differing opinions, there needs to be different opinions in order for the process to work.

Now, If you'll kindly give a straight answer, we can move on this "task force" of Issue management, and save you all a whole heap of time and trouble, I'm sure you people have more to do then just watch the Forums die a slow painful death.

[Yumemiru]

Originally posted by Sooty
edit: oh god... the link above mine has the transcript so morphed... decorated by colors and an advertisement. This is REALLY not needed, amanda.

That would be because it is the original transcript, right from AIM. Ugly, ain't it? That's one of the reasons I don't particularly care for the program. If you think I purposely added the monstrous colors myself, then you apparently do not know me too well.

Now, I'm all for 'peace' and cooperation. But I also think Impereon has a right to point out the truth in some situations, as well as his own views. Someone who is attacked is entitled to a voice in their defense, but hey, that's just my opinion.

No, we do not believe Deck Knight is "solely responsible." Nor have we even said that... Though please correct me if I am wrong.

If we all do indeed have ASB's interest in our minds... if doing what is best for ASB is your honest desire (I already know for certain that it is mine), then there's absolutely no reason we shouldn't get along as you are proposing. If that's the case, then we all want the same thing. We may not agree on what all the specifics of it are, but we still have the same general goal.

My bed beckons forth... The comforting realm of sleep along with the underlying threat of nightmares awaits. Fare the well, ye who read this message. If the land of dreams does not indefinitely claim me on this dark night, I will join you on the morrow...

EDIT: Deck Knight, if you do indeed want this to be civil and such, you'd look a lot better by cutting out cheap insults. Though if you do wish to continue to include them, by all means, go ahead. It does make you look a lot less serious, however. But that's just my opinion.

In general (not stating this to anyone in particular), if this becomes completely infested with insults and points of slander, we'll have to close it. I mean, you can't expect us to just leave an open flame war. So let's not degrade it down to that level.

[Sooty]

Sweet dreams amanda ^^

No wonder I thought it was morphed... trillian doesn't display colors on AIM lol. It's nice to see that you're for peace and rebuilding ASB ^^

[EngiMatikul]

Hi Everyone! I would say this would be the "Southern rebellion" era if I compared ASB history to American History.

Alright, First off, I admit I haven't read every darn messege on this thing. Its just too long for me right now. What ignorance I have in this, I make up in the 4 years I have been in TPM ASB History. Yes, 4 years.

Let me tell you now, I've seen everything. I've seen good times, bad times, and "Darnit I can't stand it anymore" times. Many of you haven't been here for even a year, so you guys are unaware of many of the things that you guys have right now and how much more improved ASB has been. There are more willing refs nowadays than before. Money isn't inflated, NOR deflated... though I STILL don't agree with the whole money issue right now. Refs for the most part ARE impartial; they even use randomizers now rather than making up the stuff off of their head. And most of all, ASB is organized. VERY organized, compared to before.

One more comment: If you think the current state of ASB is declining, I can tell you many events when ASB has really seemed dead, but wow, look at it now. If anyone really doesn't like the current ASB, leave for a few months then come back; you'll see drastic (and sometimes advantageous) changes. I usually do this whenever I feel ASB is losing its touch, but I come back a few months later and find it back in prime state. And furthermore, I've seen worser and better mods than Imp and ASHarris... I'd say they're on the better sides, because they haven't directed themselves towards Fascism yet. :)

[The Muffin Man]

I agree that everyone should have a say in what goes on. A big ASB chat could go on, and we could all discuss problems, how to help ASB, changes, etc...

[Moltrecuno]

Just for mere reference for those people who doesn't know what fascism is:

A one-party system of government marked by a centralized dictatorship, stringent social and economic controls, and often belligerent nationalism.


Now back to what I wanted to say. One, it was totally unnecessary (*knows that spelled wrong*) for that topic to be made at another forum let alone our own mods posting in it and not really trying to get someone to close that topic. I know it was for a good laugh, but it pretty much humiliated Deck Knight and Gamewizard in that forum by doing that all because you didn't like how things were going in that battle. Imagine if you were in their places, you would be angry also. I know I would be.

Face it, all refs get influenced by posts at some point or another by both battlers and/or spectators if the posts have to do with attacks and arena effects. I've had my fair share of those in the past battles I reffed and I can easily remember one particular one but I will not say what battle that was for the sake of preventing more flaming against others.




Originally posted by ASHarris

Now, I'm all for 'peace' and cooperation. But I also think Impereon has a right to point out the truth in some situations, as well as his own views. Someone who is attacked is entitled to a voice in their defense, but hey, that's just my opinion.

And people do respect his opinion like anyone elses. If he wants to defend himself so be it as long as no one will turn this topic into a flame war. ~_~;

No, we do not believe Deck Knight is "solely responsible." Nor have we even said that... Though please correct me if I am wrong.

You just heard it on the streets....I mean from other people around the forum. I should not put any slang in my posts...

If we all do indeed have ASB's interest in our minds... if doing what is best for ASB is your honest desire (I already know for certain that it is mine), then there's absolutely no reason we shouldn't get along as you are proposing. If that's the case, then we all want the same thing. We may not agree on what all the specifics of it are, but we still have the same general goal.

IF? Everybody should be/is interested in the well being of the ASB. If they are willing to speak out for it. I have so many ASB friends who want to say something about this ASB, but didn't want to get flamed or in trouble. Hopefully this topic can remedy their fears or whatnot.

EDIT: Deck Knight, if you do indeed want this to be civil and such, you'd look a lot better by cutting out cheap insults. Though if you do wish to continue to include them, by all means, go ahead. It does make you look a lot less serious, however. But that's just my opinion.

That's just him being himself. I personally don't think he was ever saying cheap insults. He was stating the truth in his own way like that. When I'm angry about something, I end up acting sarcastic and I sometimes do those wisecracks. His intentions are good, you just see all the insults and you should just look past them and even deeper into what he is truly saying oh most wuvley mod(<--there. that was a wisecrack but I don't care at the moment. :) )

In general (not stating this to anyone in particular), if this becomes completely infested with insults and points of slander, we'll have to close it. I mean, you can't expect us to just leave an open flame war. So let's not degrade it down to that level.

I foresee many insults coming no matter what. Any topic containing stuff about change is most likely going to get those random insults and flames. Hopefully our thick skulls will prevent us from doing too many. :) If this topic does get closed, its probably sending a message to people that you don't care, but hey that's my opinion.



Edit: *smites spelling errors*

[The Dark Master]

Originally posted by EngiMatikul


1.) What ignorance I have in this, I make up in the 4 years I have been in TPM ASB History. Yes, 4 years.

2.) Many of you haven't been here for even a year

3.) And most of all, ASB is organized. VERY organized, compared to before.






1.) and 2.) We have been here more then a year, I'v been here for since 3 years and I'v never seen you before in my days in ASB. I have seen ASB in Past but not that long ago to see the pre ASB when it was made and I have seen enough of the times when I was there.

3.) Perhaps a bit organized but not managed well, no offense.

If were ever gonna make ASB better then the time would be now, this thread will become a flame war if nothing changes and closing it will make it worse.

[Moltrecuno]

TDM, Engimatikul is also known as TMB(The Mysterious Box). I know you heard that name before. ;)

*is still in a thinking state for what to post* ~_~ Meh...

~M~

[Shadow Djinn]

Hello.....ok yes im a n00b. But ive been reading battles and these posts. I want to remain neutral here..like pokemasterfrank. I agree. That link wasnt needed....neither was the insults. Cant we just have peace here?:rolleyes: I dont think its right to insult a person behind their back. Im sure if you were one of them, youd know how it feels like. Its horrible. And even the mods insult you. Not very funny is it? To you it might be but to them its annoying, etc. Think about it...Im not tryin to side with GW7 and Deck Knight and im not sidin with the mods either. It might seem so but trust me..im not. I just dont wanna battle in a forum where peoplle flame each other.....Its not right. Psybeam, 7% damage is ok i guess but since Koffing is a poison type i guess it could be stronger..Again im not siding with GW7. All people go crazy once in a while, cant you just forgive and forget?

These were just my opinions....

[Syberia]

I wish it were just that easy, and I'm sure a majority of the people here share that opinion. The issue at hand did not spring from the one battle being used as an example. In fact, that is far from it. While it definately does show support of the many flaws of ASB, I do not think the purpose of whoever posted it was for it to recieve the majority of the attention. It goes as an example, nothing more. It is in the past, and need not be brought up for argument again. But I'm wandering from my point, as I always seem to do...

As I have said above, referee bias (and going along with that, the battle you have seemed to make the main focus of this topic) is but a small portion of what should be discussed here. I agree that this should not simply be arbitrarily settled by the will of two people (Impereon and Amanda), but by a fair majority of those involved. If such an arbitrary solution comes to be that is not agreeable, I, as well as a good portion of the people left here, will leave.

I shall end by saying that we should deal with the broader issues, and all of them, rather than linger on something that happened in the past, and is over now. While "forgiving and forgetting" this one issue would be advisable, simply ignoring the bigger issue as a whole will not lead anywhere.

[Gladiator]

As a newbie, I know nothing of the current state of things, and though I have read much of this I am confused. What is the point of this topic? I recall seeing a suggestion topic earlier yesterday so why don't people post their problems over there? This so far has been a bashfest on the Mods and the people against them and a few posts from people who just want peace.

I will be nuetral, but I don't think there will be peace until one side gets what they want. Both sides have hurt and humiliated each other. I'm sure neither will forget this, and will not let the other forget (This is how my mind works at any rate)

Again, what is this topic about?

PS: Don't bash or flame me. I don't know much about what is happening, and so you can at least respectively criticize me. Also, let me know if you are just politley criticizing. Things I say are often unwittingly hurtful or patronizing so I can't be sure if someone does the same to me.

[Blastoise 5150]

As a LO at UPN PASBL and Mozz's first opponent there, mind if I throw in my .02? I can't comment on the whole TPM issue, but I will comment on "Interrogation."

Deck Knight and friends: the 1st amendment protects you from government reprisals, not your own ignorance. Case in point:

First of all, I read the match between Imp and DK, and it was a snoozer. Two Pokemon unable to hit each other using anything but Psybeams. Hooray! It was a slow match, and apparently that got to some people.

The biggest problem is that DK ignored the first rule of combat: know your enemy better than yourself. He thought that Mozz was some wet-behind-the-ears n00b that Imp pulled out of a magic hole in the ground. And, by naming his chat "Interrogation," he made no subtlety of the fact that he thought he and his cohort were going to trounce Mozz easily.

And then Mozz handed them their butts.

And now, from reading this thread, DK is apparently upset that this got used against him, revealling the fact that he got destroyed faster than Woody Allen in a bar fight. And in PRINT, even. Sorry DK, if you appeared ignorant, it's because of what YOU wrote.

If Mozz had been calling DK various epithets, than I wouldn't be siding with Mozz. However, DK was beaten in a fight he pursued, and in a medium where there's a handy "save" feature.

Sorry DK, it's your own fault.

[pokemasterfrank]

Originally posted by Blastoise 5150
As a LO at UPN PASBL and Mozz's first opponent there, mind if I throw in my .02? I can't comment on the whole TPM issue, but I will comment on "Interrogation."

Deck Knight and friends: the 1st amendment protects you from government reprisals, not your own ignorance. Case in point:

First of all, I read the match between Imp and DK, and it was a snoozer. Two Pokemon unable to hit each other using anything but Psybeams. Hooray! It was a slow match, and apparently that got to some people.

The biggest problem is that DK ignored the first rule of combat: know your enemy better than yourself. He thought that Mozz was some wet-behind-the-ears n00b that Imp pulled out of a magic hole in the ground. And, by naming his chat "Interrogation," he made no subtlety of the fact that he thought he and his cohort were going to trounce Mozz easily.

And then Mozz handed them their butts.

And now, from reading this thread, DK is apparently upset that this got used against him, revealling the fact that he got destroyed faster than Woody Allen in a bar fight. And in PRINT, even. Sorry DK, if you appeared ignorant, it's because of what YOU wrote.

If Mozz had been calling DK various epithets, than I wouldn't be siding with Mozz. However, DK was beaten in a fight he pursued, and in a medium where there's a handy "save" feature.

Sorry DK, it's your own fault.

Now, what's really bugging me is that we are trying to change TPM ASB peacefully, not egg people on to flame. So please, be nice. Sure, they probably deserved to be made fun of, thats ok, but was not need to be brought up in this topic.

[Sooty]

Sorry DK, it's your own fault.

We don't mind that you come make your opinions Blastoise. But at this time, with such unneeded conviction? I can't say I don't.

Mozz has already expressed his loss of interest in our ASB (correct me if I'm wrong mozz), and he stated he would not be battling in here in the future unless he is challenged. Don't disgrace your community any further by disrupting our calm after the storm and thus complicate matters for Mozz (whether or not he can just shrug and be nonchalant).

None of us are impressed by comments made about this place there, but creating an account here JUST to flame someone doesn't speak much of you yourself either.

Mind you, it was not a match between Impereon and Deck Knight, but Impereon against gamewizard. Why deck knight would participate and in the end be THE one to be flamed instead of anyone else, I do not know, but I sure know that those who participated in flaming are biased. When I view this from the view of a third party, I laughed at BOTH sides. Yes, on one hand Deck Knight makes a fool of himself, but on the other hand, those forumers pick at the conversation, joke and satirise the subject with caustic remarks. As a personal quote, the one to get the last laugh does not participate in the matter.

From what I see of the thread, it IS deck knight's fault the log existed, but an argument requires two parties to take place. Mozz could have just left the chat room or ignored them totally, but he persisted, and it seems even more apparent after he post the topic in your ASB. Then there is the two battlers themselevs, the most innocent people of all, or not. Before you say 'it' is Deck knight's fault again, think hard if you're truly being fair or not.

[Deck Knight]

Originally posted by Blastoise 5150
As a LO at UPN PASBL and Mozz's first opponent there, mind if I throw in my .02? I can't comment on the whole TPM issue, but I will comment on "Interrogation."

[Oh Goody, So Aside from Mozz being too cowardly to post it here, he has to summon a lackey to do his fighting for him here.]

Deck Knight and friends: the 1st amendment protects you from government reprisals, not your own ignorance. Case in point:

First of all, I read the match between Imp and DK, and it was a snoozer. Two Pokemon unable to hit each other using anything but Psybeams. Hooray! It was a slow match, and apparently that got to some people.

[If you had REALLY read the match, you would have noticed the title was Impereon VS Gamewizard]

The biggest problem is that DK ignored the first rule of combat: know your enemy better than yourself. He thought that Mozz was some wet-behind-the-ears n00b that Imp pulled out of a magic hole in the ground. And, by naming his chat "Interrogation," he made no subtlety of the fact that he thought he and his cohort were going to trounce Mozz easily.

[Is this the same magic hole in the ground you came from, or was that just the sewer? Btw. Interrogation was the name of the Chat GW Made, he just dragged me into it.]

And then Mozz handed them their butts.

[In your opinion, aka the extremely biased one]

And now, from reading this thread, DK is apparently upset that this got used against him, revealling the fact that he got destroyed faster than Woody Allen in a bar fight. And in PRINT, even. Sorry DK, if you appeared ignorant, it's because of what YOU wrote.

[Mozz, Impereon, and Amanda, who also apparently had flames to deal out in secret, seemed to be running thier mouths off their too... now, they are LO's(except Mozz) here, If you are an LO too, except from UPN, you must think your flaming here for no apparent reason jas no consequences. I created an account in self defense, to rebute Mozz's one-sided argument, you created an account SOLELY to flame in an issue you took NO part in, if anyone looks like they are ignorant, it would be YOU.]

If Mozz had been calling DK various epithets, than I wouldn't be siding with Mozz. However, DK was beaten in a fight he pursued, and in a medium where there's a handy "save" feature.

[Yeah right, Considering you participated in a topic made solely to flame me and GW(and if you didn't you ran scared cause I showed up, and wanted to get your last word in with protection from Mozz and Mods). I think its safe to say you would side with Mozz is he said the 18th Amendment Made alchohol free to minors.

Sorry DK, it's your own fault.

[For a guy with no stake in this, you have a whole lot to say, unfortunetely, most of it is too little too late]

[Gladiator]

Oh, for the love of... WILL SOMEONE TELL ME WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT??!!

*regains composure* *Reads posts from DK and Blastoise again* *Acts disgusted, but nonchalant* Well, I saw that coming.

Again, I need to ask, what is this thread about? I've been reading through most of it and it seems that it is just a bashfest between the Mods, Mozz, DeckKnight, and Gamewizard. I read that little transcript, and, to me and probably many others, all three of you came off as idiots (to be polite). Now I know you can argue with others all you want, and that's alright, but do it over PM or E-Mail or whatever, but don't post this thing on the messageboard. I don't care about your squabbles, and I'm sure it is getting on everyone elses nerves. If you want to complain about the way things are run (and you think you have a solution), do it on the suggestion thread (or the Rules Tower, because that was one of the uses). I swear, you guys argue more than the people on RPG forums.

If this has no real noticeable reason for this topic for being here, then could one of you (or Pokemaster Kevin, if he is looking at this) close this, or delete this?


As a LO at UPN PASBL and Mozz's first opponent there, mind if I throw in my .02? I can't comment on the whole TPM issue, but I will comment on "Interrogation."

[Oh Goody, So Aside from Mozz being too cowardly to post it here, he has to summon a lackey to do his fighting for him here.]


Um, can you tell me HOW do you know that Mozz had summoned him? He could be doing this on his own free will (How can a stranger threaten someone over a messageboard) Not like I'm choosing sides, just pointing something out.

PS: How do you guys get those quotes to look right?

[Cyrus]

Gladiator, this thread is in response to Deck Knight posting a thread about peoples' personal feelings about the mods and how they are handling their postions, and how things, in his opinion, need to be changed. The purpose of this thread is to allow people to discuss what changes they feel should be made and how best to go around doing this. It is quickly decsending into the people attacking The Mozz and Deck Knight. I agree with you for the most part, the fact that any of the parties sat there and carried on that discussion doesn't say anything about them, but thats a moot point and off topic.

A subforum, if managed properly, would be most useful as a place to make suggestions, I don't recall who brought up the logistical problems with using a thread to accomplish it, but they raise a valid point.

[The Mozz]

I did not ask Blastoise to come and post here.

DK, you made an account at UPN to counter the arguments against you, as well as threw in a few flames. Blastoise made an account here to counter your arguments against me, with a few flames as well.

And calling me a coward does nothing. The chat is posted no less than twice in this thread. If you'd like a third time, I'd be more than happy to oblige.

[Cyrus]

The Mozz, to bring up the age old saying, 2 wrongs don't make a right. Blastiose 5150 didn't need to sink to the level of coming in and making and flaming people in a thread that most of the community are attempting to use to accomplish something other than insulting each other. One of you two needs to be the bigger man/woman/thing and let it go. Accept the fact that it happened, that it shouldn't have and ignore anything that has to do with it. Don't forget that it occured, but don't continue bashing each other over it.

[Shadow Djinn]

Another old saying..

" When a group of people fight, the wisest one shuts up first"

Now , first of all, Blastoise, the UPN people started the flaming. SO why is it wrong to flame back? If you can do it, so can they, no?

[Cyrus]

Originally posted by Dark Templar 8
Another old saying..

" When a group of people fight, the wisest one shuts up first"

Now , first of all, Blastoise, the UPN people started the flaming. SO why is it wrong to flame back? If you can do it, so can they, no?

True, but I never made a claim to being wise. Flaming isn't helpful in any way shape or form. Anyone can flame, it isn't constructive, it can be a good outlet or amusing to some but isn't whats need at this point in time. Flaming is always 'wrong' in some it might be justified, but there is always a better way of getting the point across.

[The Mozz]

Wrong, DT. The first people to flame were DK and GW in the chat itself. If they went about questioning me over the reffing in a calm manner without resorting to silly name-calling, I wouldn't have posted it on UPN.

[Shadow Djinn]

Originally posted by Cyrus
True, but I never made a claim to being wise. Flaming isn't helpful in any way shape or form. Anyone can flame, it isn't constructive, it can be a good outlet or amusing to some but isn't whats need at this point in time. Flaming is always 'wrong' in some it might be justified, but there is always a better way of getting the point across. im not talking about you...

Mozz then why dont you just work it out? Im not siding with anybody here, but the 2 did it for a reason. They wanted to know the stuff, and no one has a idea on their tone. Im just saying that much,....

[Blastoise 5150]

frank: I think the point was to show that Deck Knight et. al were not some innocent pariah.

Snooty: Mozz is also quitting out of the UPN PASBL, so it's not like he's completely forsaken you instead of us. Besides, the last time TPM fought BG, TPM was winning, quiaff?

[Oh Goody, So Aside from Mozz being too cowardly to post it here, he has to summon a lackey to do his fighting for him here.]

I came of my own choice.

[If you had REALLY read the match, you would have noticed the title was Impereon VS Gamewizard]

My bad. It's been awhile since I looked at the thread. Chalk it up to a brain fart.

[Is this the same magic hole in the ground you came from, or was that just the sewer? Btw. Interrogation was the name of the Chat GW Made, he just dragged me into it.]

Yeah, as an LO and vet battler (2 years or so), I wouldn't possibly know what I was talking about.
And if I'm not mistaken, the chat occured after you got involved in GW's battle with Impereon, correct?

[In your opinion, aka the extremely biased one]

So if you came out on top, why were you upset that Mozz posted it at UPN? The evidence is there, and I assume most people will draw a similar conclusion.

[Mozz, Impereon, and Amanda, who also apparently had flames to deal out in secret, seemed to be running thier mouths off their too... now, they are LO's(except Mozz) here, If you are an LO too, except from UPN, you must think your flaming here for no apparent reason jas no consequences. I created an account in self defense, to rebute Mozz's one-sided argument, you created an account SOLELY to flame in an issue you took NO part in, if anyone looks like they are ignorant, it would be YOU.]

I'm not spouting off "trainers of the world unite" bull-hickey when things don't go my way.

[Yeah right, Considering you participated in a topic made solely to flame me and GW(and if you didn't you ran scared cause I showed up, and wanted to get your last word in with protection from Mozz and Mods). I think its safe to say you would side with Mozz is he said the 18th Amendment Made alchohol free to minors.]

I don't like alcohol, so Mozz making it legal doesn't really affect me in any way.

Running scared? Pah. With your amazing leaps of logic, there was nothing to refute.

[For a guy with no stake in this, you have a whole lot to say, unfortunetely, most of it is too little too late]

How dare I have an opinion!

Cyrus: I don't know about the problems of TPM, though I am considering joining. Still though, I'm just pointing out that DK and GameWizard went into this chat thinking they were going to own, and it didn't go the way they hoped.

Dark Templar: Not really. We thought it was hillarious because...
A) their logic, in our opinion, was faulty
B) they had no clue about Mozz's previous experience
C) it's a UPN/TPM rivalry thing. I don't get it either, but whatever.

And, as Mozz stated, the flaming started when GW made the chat.

[Cyrus]

Blastiose, I have read the log and I agree with your statement about the out come. But with your first post, you entered a thread that had been nearly flame free and brought up a subject most of us had tried to move past. It would be greatly appriciated if you allow the subject to drop, perhaps to finally die. If you elect to join this ASB, welcome.

[Blastoise 5150]

Understood, Cyrus, and thanks.

*******, AWAAAAAY!

*trips, falls out a window, and is knocked unconscious when he hits the sidewalk*