The Uber-EV-Trained Eeveelution Team of Super-Ultimate-Mega-Death-Power!...

[Phoenixsong]

...or, it would be, if I could get some help. Yeah, I've been playing Ruby and Sapphire ever since they came out but I still have no idea how to EV/IV train Pokemon (actually, I don't even have any idea what IV training is). I'm currently working on a team for the Journey Across America tournament (no, I won't be shutting up about it anytime soon... I'm not bragging, I'm just really surprised and proud of myself and can't stop talking about it due to total shock and joyful disbelief) that will consist entirely of Eevee and its evolutions. Yes, that's right, Eevee, Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Espeon and Umbreon and nothing else. It's a nice change from the rather legendary-oriented team I used in the qualifier, and I've never heard of such a thing being used before... anyway, I want to be certain that my Eevee team is on par with the legendary-overloaded teams that I can guarantee will make an appearance in the nationals. I need to know more about EV/IV training in general, but I can go to GameFAQs for that. What I'm writing to ask is if anyone knows the best way to EV train the following Pokemon with these specific natures and move plans:

Eevee: Adamant (moves: Shadow Ball, Body Slam, Swagger, Attract)
Vaporeon: Serious (moves: Surf, Ice Beam, Rain Dance, ?)
Jolteon: Bold (moves: Thunder, Thunderbolt, Substitute, Attract)
Flareon: Naive (moves: Flamethrower, Shock Wave, Shadow Ball, Body Slam)
Espeon: Bold (moves: Psychic, Sunny Day, Morning Sun, Reflect)
Umbreon: Modest (moves: Helping Hand, Attract, Confuse Ray, Faint Attack)

First of all, yes, I know Eevee's not the greatest idea, but I really want to use one. Second, any given move with the exception of a few (Thunder, Rain Dance, etc.) might possibly be replaced with Hidden Power, depending on its effect. And third, any other move suggestions (keep in mind that this is a DOUBLE BATTLE team) are welcome.

If anyone here can tell me the best way to go about raising this team, I'd really appreciate it (I have all 3rd gen games completed, so I can get to battle almost any Pokemon), and I'd also like to know if EV training this team from eggs to Level 100 by August 8 is even feasible, because that's my deadline. If more information than this is required, I can give it to you.

Any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

[Poryhedron]

Well, I can tell you this: It's not the EV training (battling against the right pokémon) that's going to take a while. It's getting the right IVs. There's no such thing as IV training because a given pokémon's IVs are set in stone as much as its gender. You'll have to go through quite the truckload of Eevee to find six with the best IVs, so get ready to do an awful lot of breeding on Emerald Version (hello Flame Body, not to mention the fix on breeding that guarantees three inherited IVs.) Actually, come to think of it, I can see Ruby/Sapphire being more useful for breeding than Emerald in certain cases, because Ruby/Sapphire has the sandslide trick that Emerald's Match Call eviscerated with a rusty spoon. <==no estoy happy.

[mr_pikachu]

Quick question: What's the sandslide trick? I've never heard of it.

[Poryhedron]

Quick question: What's the sandslide trick? I've never heard of it.

Step 1: position yourself at the bottom of a sandslide.
Step 2: find a way to hold down the up-end of the D-pad without you being there. I prefer those alligator-like binder clips for stacks of paper. Tape really doesn't work, sadly.
Step 3: go away and have dinner or go to school or go to sleep for the night or whatever, while your character endlessly marches up the slope, slides back down, goes up, slides down, goes up, slides down...

This easily accumulates "steps", which can help in numerous facets of raising pokémon. For example: level-building of pokémon in the Day Care, Happiness-building of pokémon in your party, and hatching of eggs in your party. Just remember to plug the Game Boy into its AC adaptor if you're leaving it on overnight.

By the way, this trick can also be used to reduce Darkness meters in one place in Pokémon Colloseum. Just one. In Agate City, when you're standing at the entrance there's a narrow bluff on your left. Set up the Gamecube controller so that your character can walk downward forever (there are a couple ways to do this,) leave your character trying to walk off the tip of that bluff and you're set. Advice: turn off your TV screen to prevent image burn and save energy!

[mr_pikachu]

Oh, that one! Yes, I actually have heard of that, now that I think of it. I imagine that made Match Call pretty annoying for breeders, what with phone calls interrupting the endless march. So I guess Emerald is better for fast breeding when you're actually there playing the game, while Ruby/Sapphire are best when you're away.

Out of curiosity, are there similar tricks in Colosseum XD? I thought I'd ask, since I don't really know how different it is from Colosseum (I still have to buy XD...).

[Phoenixsong]

Yeah, I was told about that sandslide trick recently, and my wonderful Magmar Duessel w/Flame Body=Phoenixsong's best friend. But I'm afraid this doesn't quite anwser my question. I still have absolutely NO idea what the heck an IV is, other than short for intravenous, and that can't be right. !) I have a guess, though: are IVs what make different Pokemon of the same level have different stats, like one Mudkip LV5 with 20 HP, 10 Attack and 11 Defense and another LV5 Mudkip with 21 HP, 9 Attack and 10 Defense? Or am I completely wrong? And what's this alleged fix of which you speak that will allow me to inherit IVs? Is it anything like that Everstone/Nature fix thing?

And once I've got the right Eevees, what exactly should I do to EV train them? I can't remember the EV values for any of the Pokemon at all with the exception of Venusaur being 3 Special-something or something like that. *beats head against wall* Dear gawd, Pokemon was so much simpler before I knew about all this stuff and was actually able to keep entertained by just fighting in-game people...

Out of curiosity, do all of the Emerald ability tricks only work in Emerald? For example, giving an Everstone to my female Salamence in Ruby won't do jack to give the baby a better chance of inheriting her nature, and putting an Abra with Synchronize and a Jolly nature in the front of my FireRed party will not increase my chances of finding a Jolly Rhyhorn or something?

Hmm... I wonder if there is such a "sandslide/walking trick" for XD. I wouldn't know; I seem to be cursed with Pokemon that don't benefit much from just walking around and so I end up either actively using them or dumping them in the Purify Chamber and forgetting they exist because I hate them anyway. Really, the advent of the Purify Chamber makes that whole "walking cure" thing pretty obsolete in XD. Oh, well. I'd rather not deal with a godawful Shadow Nosepass anyway. I think I might explode.

[mr_pikachu]

You're partially right about IVs. In the Advanced Generation, IVs are one of a few factors that make different Pokemon have different stats. But let's look at the whole system, so that you can see how everything works together. (Really, that's the only way to understand any individual stat-altering variable.)

By the way, everything that follows should only be considered within a species. For instance, when comparing a Shuckle to a Shuckle. Don't bother asking why your Shuckle has less HP than a Blissey despite perfect IVs, EVs, and nature. It's not worth the shame. ;)

First we have, as you mentioned, IVs. IVs are short for Initial Values. They're basically the base value for each stat of a Pokemon. Each stat - HP, Attack, Defense, Sp. Attack, Sp. Defense, and Speed - have their own IV, which is a random number from 0 to 31. The higher the number, the better the Pokemon is at that stat. This is especially critical because it has a major impact in how quickly your Pokemon can grow in that stat. The higher the IV, the quicker the Pokemon can build upon that base value. These values are locked in once your Pokemon hatches, and there's nothing you can do to change that without some hacking. So, in general, the higher the better. It's easy as that. (Oh, and don't waste your time trying to get a Pokemon with perfect IVs. You've got a 1 in 1,073,741,824 chance with each Pokemon, and even selective breeding can only do so much to improve your odds. But that is an issue for another time.)

Next, we have your natures (Quirky, Impish, Lax, Calm, etc). Natures can have effects in other areas - for instance, they determine what moves your Pokemon will want to use in the Battle Palace in Emerald - but their general effect is to alter your stats. A Pokemon's nature usually gives a 10% boost to one stat (excluding HP) and a 10% decrease in another stat (again, excluding HP). However, some natures would give the increase and the decrease to the same stat. Mathematically, that should result in a 1% decrease of that stat, but I think we cleared up in a thread awhile back that the nature was simply programmed to have no effect whatsoever in each of those cases. However, 20 out of the 25 natures give an increase and a decrease. An example might be a Pokemon with an Adamant nature. Its Attack score would be 10% higher than normal (once all other factors were considered), while its Special Attack would be 10% lower than normal.

Now, here's the one that takes planning. The dreaded EVs. EVs stands for Effort Values. As the name suggests, these are points that are awarded based on a Pokemon's effort in battle. Whenever your Pokemon defeats an opposing Pokemon, your battler will gain EVs based on the opponent that was defeated. For instance, defeating a Geodude would give you 1 Defense EV, while triumphing over a Butterfree would yield 2 Special Attack EVs and 1 Special Defense EV. You can earn EV points for each of the six stats (HP, Attack, Defense, Sp. Attack, Sp. Defense, and Speed). And for every 4 EVs you accumulate in a stat, that stat will be 1 point higher once the Pokemon reaches level 100. And it doesn't matter when you earn the EVs; if you start accumulating them at level 90 for whatever reason, they'll be just as effective as the ones you might have otherwise earned at level 5.

But here's the catch. You can't accumulate EVs endlessly. Oh, no. That would be too easy. There are two limits set on your Pokemon. First, no Pokemon can ever earn more that 510 EVs. So when you're training a tournament battler, you have to choose what areas in which to specialize wisely. Also, no stat can ever have more than 255 EVs. This means that, at most, you can max out two separate stats. So no piling on endless HP for your Blissey, or making an absurdly powerful Groudon! ...Well, at least no more absurd than usual.

You may have noticed something about the EVs. Each stat can only go up to 255, right? But the stat will only increase for every 4 EV points it has. If you do a little math, 252 EV points would yield an increase of 63 points in the stat at level 100. But that's three points less than the maximum EV accumulation. So what's the point of boosting a stat all the way to 255? What, you ask, is this super-secret, unbelievable awesome prize you will most certainly receive for such a feat?

Not a **** thing. That's why most Pokemon that are critically EV trained end up with 252 EV points on two separate stats, and 6 on a third stat. (And no, there's no benefit gained from the extra 2 points there, either. C'mon, you honestly expect to not max out your EVs eventually?)

EVs, by the way, are also the reason why Pokemon that were levelled up using Rare Candies are often weaker than their trained counterparts. However, once you've gotten all the EVs you want, you can pile on the Rare Candies, because stat-wise, there's nothing left to gain from battling rather than feeding your 'mon.

And one more thing. EVs can be decreased in RSE (or at least Emerald). You might come across berries when you play that "raise a Pokemon's friendliness but lower base ________." Those berries do increase friendliness, but they lower the EVs of whatever stat is mentioned by 10. So if you realize midway through your EV training that you screwed up, it's not too late! Just pull those EVs away from your Pokemon, and replace them with what you really want.


*gasps for air*

That took longer to explain than I expected... maybe I shouldn't go into so much detail...

x_x

[Phoenixsong]

No no, that was quite helpful. I already knew about the natures and the Rare Candies, but that detailed EV/IV explanation clears it up a lot. Muchas gracias.

But... but... I want my Shuckle to have Blissey-esque HP... why is the world so cruel? :wink: Shuckle and Blissey are evil. More like, I want everyone's stupid Blisseys to have Shuckle-esque HP. Or Shedinja-esque. That works even better.

I think I heard somewhere that EVs didn't exist in RBYGSC, but I heard somewhere else that they did and I also noticed that when I put a Pokemon that I'd used for a while in the PC and then looked at it again, its stats had increased slightly of their own accord. Aren't those EVs at work? Just curious.

[mr_pikachu]

Excellent question!

RBYGSC did not have EVs, per se. However, they did have something very similar called DVs, which I believe stood for Differential Values (or something of that nature). The only real difference between the two is that with EVs, it's obviously impossible to max out every stat. With DVs, it was very possible; in fact, you could pretty much guarantee that a Pokemon would have maximized DVs simply by battling through the game. EVs established a limit on the total number of points that could be accumulated that was lower than the combined maximum of all the stats, so now you have to pick the areas in which you want each of your Pokemon to specialize.

As for the PC thing... I have no idea there. That doesn't seem to make sense with either EVs or DVs, because it wasn't earning any points while it was in the PC. Hrm. Are you sure you had the values copied down/memorized correctly?

[Poryhedron]

I can clear up some of this. First of all, mr_pikachu, you're getting a term confused. DVs were the same thing as IVs; the RBYGSC version of EVs was just called Stat EXP. Also, I usually see "IVs" described as standing for Individual Values, because they are the only things that make an individual level-15 Machop encountered in the wild different from any other level-15 Machop encountered in the wild (well, they were until Advance Gen introduced Natures.)

As for stats growing in the PC...Phoenixsong, you're absolutely correct. See, here's the thing: in RBYGSC, stats are calculated from species, level, DVs, and Stat EXP, but the game doesn't bother recalculating every single time you gain Stat EXP. There are only two times the game will see fit to re-figure a pokémon's stats:

1) at level-up or evolution, and
2) when you withdraw a pokémon from the PC.

Since, when a pokémon reaches level 100, it can't level up any more, withdrawing it from the PC becomes the only way to get its stats refreshed. This makes the practice very important, so much so that it has been named "The Box Trick" in the greater Pokémon community. If you hear RBYGSC players talking about "The Box Trick", this is what they're talking about--some people don't even realize why their pokémon are getting stat boosts from being deposited and withdrawn, but it's really because the Stat EXP they'd collected was being applied.

[mr_pikachu]

*reads*

See, this is why I love this forum. Whenever I've got things mixed up in my head, someone (usually Pory) is there to set me straight. Now I'll have the more accurate information for the next time, unless I forget it like I always do. ^_^;

Quick question, though. I assume the Box Trick only applies to those Stat EXP points, which can often be maxed out prior to a Pokemon reaching level 100, right? So it doesn't have any added benefit other than adding the points that could have been earned earlier?

You know, that could have been one heck of a good trick for level 50 battles and such, thinking about it... Train the DVs like crazy and get the Pokemon very, very close to reaching level 51, then use the trick...

[Poryhedron]

Quick question, though. I assume the Box Trick only applies to those Stat EXP points, which can often be maxed out prior to a Pokemon reaching level 100, right? So it doesn't have any added benefit other than adding the points that could have been earned earlier?
Dead on. Rare Candy use, especially by people who Missingno.ed their Rare Candies, made the Box Trick more useful at level 100 than it would have been otherwise. That and Mewtwo, who starts at level 70 and thus has only thirty levels left with no Stat EXP yet.