Petition for the RPG Forum

[Roy Karrde]

As a representative and participator of the RPG Forum, I hereby draft this complaint against Outlaw JT and Ultimate Charizard due to their inactivity as mods. The RPG forum requires mods that not only are active but also provide and influence the growth of the forum. For the better half of this last year both Outlaw JT and Ultimate Charizard have neglected their duties of this and allowed the responsibility to fall on to other shoulders. As a concerned member of this forum and in hopes to revive it in both growth and prosperity, I present a petition for the RPG forum members to sign to allow for the immediate demodding of the two mods mentioned above for incidents indicated above and listed below.

Ultimate Charizard and Outlaw JT have neglected various duties as a RPG mod of this forum. These duties include inactivity in posting in the forum, and failure to create a RPG of any kind. Outlaw JT by his own admission in his last post in the forum has admitted that he does not have the time to post due to work and school. Ultimate Charizard’s last RPG was one that almost completely copied off another RPG at the time. Neither have truly made any attempt at creating a new RPG in more than three months. Outlaw JT’s last post in this forum before a few days ago was last year.

There by as a concerned and representative of this forum I submit this petition to the forum for fellow people to sign up and give their opinions.

~Roy Karrde

Signatures
Roy Karrde
Plantae
-/Deathborn/-
Emotional Faun Chiko-sai
Weasel Overlord
Perfect Chaos
Kalad1
Sango
Heald
Mega Horny
fireguardian
Tsukasa
The_Missing_Link
Hyperness is a Good Thing
Nabooru23
Green Lanturn
Hatake Kakashi
Drusilla
Crystal Tears
Krystalline Kabutops

[Plantae]

I agree earnestly. Though demodding them is severe, it seems the best course of action in this situation. Duly signed.

I would say more, but I would only be repeating what Ryan here has so well-put.

[-/Deathborn/-]

As a matter of fact, they haven't been around lately. Or doing modding-actions. So I sign...a bit loosely.

[Heald]

I do not sign (although this may change if you sway my opinion) but here are my views :

Mods are primarily here to preserve the peace of the Forum. The RPG forum has few issues (usually one per year) where a mod is forced to intervene (except in the case of a newcomer not knowing the rules and having their RPG closed) so mods have very little work compared to, say the Misc. forum, where flame wars come and go frequently (usually with me as one of the participants, but that is a different story). Therefore their inactivity can be excused.

So what about starting RPGs? If you take a look at some of the other forums, such as Misc., the mods hardly ever post topics, if any at all. Some even hardly participate, only posting once or twice a month. I know for a fact that UC does check the forums once in a while, but he is too busy to post. Therefore starting RPGs is hardly a requisite of maintaining your post as RPG mod. If you believe differently, that is your opinion.

So should the mods be encouraging activity? On one hand yes but then again all active members of the RPG forum should be encouraging activity. The RPG Lounge has been gaining some activity in the last month and this should be encouraged and I applaud the topic starters for this. We should not be relying on the mods for this activity, we're not mindless you know.

I know I'm often inactive and for that I apologise to those affected but I am in my most important year of school at the moment and I do have tonnes of work, leaving me with little time to post, but I try my best.

Then again, in agreement with you, their inactivity does suggest that their positions are no longer required. We have already elected Tsukasa as a mod and we have yet to see how that turns out. Perhaps JT and UC could do the noble thing and voluntarily step down since they do very little in terms of actual moderating or activity and if we do replace them we do it with current roleplayers. Some view the post of moderator as a powerful role but it isn't really, especially here where there is little need for mods.

Either way, I am not signing it now, but I may in the near future.

Also, shouldn't this really be in the RPG Lounge? I know here you can get better attention but people do actually check the lounge when there is a new post.

[Roy Karrde]

Last night when we all decided to make this, yes I said we I was not the only one in this decision. It was decided that this should be placed in the main forum so that it could recieve the most amount of attention since it effects the entire forum. The lounge just does not get the same amount of attention that the main forum gets, so that is why it is here.

[Emotional Faun Chiko-sai]

Um... I have no real opinion on whether UC and JT should be axed, what's to be said has already been said; but I'm signing this petition for now...

[Weasel Overlord]

[color=thistle]While it is true that mods don't have to be as active as normal role-players, it's still nice to know that your mods are around, and taking part in what's going on. As B4 does, and Tsuki; which is why I think that some more active moderators are needed here.

And as for being too busy to post, well surely a prerequisite of being a mod is that you have the time to post in the forums. Also, I think that our currently active moderators are prime examples of how a mod can manage to actually be a mod, and to create and run their own rpgs. The rpg forum is different to the others, I think, in that no-one would want to give up their role-playing entirely to become a moderator. I certainly wouldn't expect them to just drop out of the whole thing. I mean, just look at ASB. The moderators there are fully active in all aspects of that area. They battle, ref, do contests, judge contests, and thats as well as moderating the forum. As you state, Heald, mods over here have less to do, and surely that means that they have more time to be active in the everyday rpg-ness...

Anywho...there are my ramblings for the day. They probably don't make sense. I apologse...

EDIT: Ooop...I forgot to say...I sign the petition...

[Vulpix.ck87]

I think it would be nice to have mods who are more in tune with the rpg forums, i guess that'd make a more effective mod. Then again, i don't know what UC and Outlaw actually do around here, how often they drop in or whatever.. Before we demod them it'd probably be best to let them state their reasons for staying modded, or we should see if they're happy to give it up anyway.

If they don't reply to this topic that will probably speak for itself, and then we can assign a more active mod, if necessary. Like it's been said, it's pretty peaceful over here..

[Bear]

This might make some people angry, but I think it needs to be said. I'll make it short and sweet:

What good are active mods if the board itself is not active?

I browse this forum every day. This is the only board (with the occasional bit in ADV) that I look at on this forum. I've seen two, even three days go by without a single post in a single topic. I remember the days when I'd have to check this board 3-5 times a day just to keep up with posts. The days when you had to choose between RPGs to join because there were so many interesting ones, and you only had time for a few.

Really, I see no need to demod them, because honestly you could check this board once a month and not miss a beat. [HINT FOR DISCUSSION] Why don't we GIVE the mods something to do?

[Roy Karrde]

On the opposite view Bear, why doesnt the Mods give us something to do? In last night's chat several things were suggested for the future by the mods that participated in that chat. JT and UC have just both been inactive and dont seem to care about this forum. They are mods and as RPG mods they are supposed to help keep this forum from dieing. They have failed in that duty. Now this sounds like I and others are looking for a scapegoat, but in reality we are trying to get mods like Tsukasa and Bulbasaur4 who actually post more and work for the betterment of this forum.

[Heald]

Who was involved in this chat last night? And what ideas were put forward?

Also, as I said before, ordinary roleplayers are the ones who make up the majority of the forum and so shouldn't have to wait for a mod to give them a piece of string to play with, they should just act and do it. That's why the lounge is there.

Also, perhaps JT's and UC's lack of activity or innovation is attributed to the failure of the ASB/RPG project. That was something we could have done to liven things up but only a few people actually expressed any interest, and then that interest petered out. Then they realised that trying to inject any life into this forum would not be worth it in the long run. Sure we've picked up a few more members since then but it really isn't enough.

[Roy Karrde]

Heald I sent you a PM listing the people in the chat and some of the ideas put forward. I wont post the names yet becuase some of the people in there do not want to be identified yet. But I will say this topic was pretty much agreed upon by everyone. As for the ideas, I will wait and see if everyone wants them released or not since it was their idea in the first place and they may not want to spoil some of the surprises we have instore in the next month.

[Weasel Overlord]

[color=thistle]I think that maybe the ASB RPG could be revived. I for one would love to role-play wth my pokemon and now that more role-players have started asb-ing there might be more interest...who knows! And I don't think the board is beng as bad as it was. There are at least five active rpgs going on; probably even more. I don't think that's a sign of deadness. Even though it's nowhere near as active as when I started; at least new people are showing up. The big server change lost us loads of people which could be a reason for quietness.

We can't keep looking back at the 'old days'...

[Bulbasaur4]

Yes, I agree that we cannot look back at the 'old days'. I for one have been here long enough to remember those times when the RPG board didn't exist... and that was back when text-based RPGs were starting to become a new sensation that had just touched this board. Let's face it- this board and this forum will probably never go back to being as it once was. However, that does not mean that we cannot try to make it better and try to help it reach a level of more activity. I believe that it is starting to rise in activity, mainly because a few selected people have put forth some effort and within a month it is showing a bit more of a rise.

Why is the RPG board dwindling?

Well, in my opinion... it is just because of the age group. Back when the RPG board was booming, I was in 7th and 8th grade (maybe 9th as well) and I had the time to go and post a lot. (Of course... with my time management skills, I find ways to post...) However, now many of those same RPGers who have stuck around, are much older and have far more things to do. They still make an effort to post once in a while, but they're faced with a hard schedule to work around with. Of course, there are probably more reasons than this... but that is just one of the many. (I may note however, that I have managed to bring in one new RPer and I have a few friends who are interested in joining the board as soon as I put up an RPG... so it isn't like there isn't any hope at getting new RPers.)

But ... now that I have slightly ranted, let's get on topic. This isn't a debate about the activeness of the RPG forums or what caused the RPG forum to be inactive... it is about UC and JT. I, personally, am hoping that the two of them will post so that they can declare their position or what they think. I do know that both are fairly busy, especially JT, but I think that they will probably post in this topic. I would like to reserve judgement until I see what they have to say.

[Perfect Chaos]

I have to agree with what Kalah is saying. I too, used to come around the RPG Forum ALOT during the past years (middle school, 9th and 10th grade). But again, I was forced to completely get off-track from RPG. One, because of my school work (which in terms of load, is FAR greater than the standard AP classes in high school). And two, to a lesser degree, my inability to actually produce my own original RPGs and also adequate posts for the RPGs that I were in. So, yeah, I have to agree that the main reason that the RPG board is dwindling is because of the age group.

Now onto JT and UC:

I have somewhat mixed feelings on their presence in the board. I remember when I was around, their presence was actually seen and they were doing their jobs as mods. We all know that Kalah definitely has been keeping up with her duties as best as she can as well. I have nothing to say about Tsukasa, because I have never interacted with her before, so we can only wait and see.

Anyways, although they are mods, they also have lives as well and from what I can tell (from seeing RPG in the past couple of weeks as a bystander), their really isn't that much to be done from a mod's point-of-view, except for the random new member that comes in and posts an improper RPG topic.

However, I still will sign this petition for electing new mods.

-Sean

[Bear]

What I meant by "giving the mods something to do" was to work to make this board livelier and more post-intensive. With more people actively participating, creating RPGs and posting every day, it would keep the mods busier. I'm not saying I disagree with you on the status of these particular mods. I am in an RPG with JT and UC, and until 2 days ago, we had been waiting since last November for a post by JT, despite many OOC posts directed at him IMPLORING him to post.

I will not sign a petition like this. Rather, I would like to provoke some further discussion on the matter, and get everyone's opinion. This concerns the entire board, and I think the entire board should have something to say.

[kalad1]

*Signs in massive fancy script* There you go.

[Ace64]

Hmmm..what drives me to post here, when I haven't posted in a single RPG for years?My last attempt at trying to get into the RPG thing, was interestingly enough, one that JT Outlaw created. Despite the fact that I'm not technically active on this board, seeing this topic does make me wonder.
Why is the RPG Board dying? Like several other people have stated, RPG's were thriving when we were younger. I remember taking part in one of the old "Pokeschool" RPG's, which had pages and pages of people joining up.Now...not so much. Many people from the old days are gone. Big deal. It happens. But I don't think you can attribute the stagnation of the board squarely atop the shoulders of two people. Even if they are mods, you can't expect them to resurrect the entire board, by coming up with so original, so great an RPG idea that it singlehandedly revives the board.
I agree that they aren't as active as some of you, but we've all got our own things to do in life. We don't know the situation with them. Why not try and get their perspective first before you start signing away?I'm not sure if de-modding them and appointing new mods in their place would change anything. If that's the only reason we can use to explain the reason for the lack of people here, well...

Anyway, sorry about that.

[Toxicity]

About UC and JT...personally, I have to agree with Kalah on this. Both are fairly busy, but somehow if they manage free time, do they really post is my question. I remember JT having a fair bit of time over the course of last year, but then again, that was only over the summer. And UC...I personally wonder about him, too. But really, half and half...I guess it's fair, isn't it?

Well, I'll also give them the right to be honest how they feel about their modding duties, and if they feel like giving them up due to too much time. But in short, I'm signing.

[Kuro Espeon]

What good are active mods if the board itself is not active?

I browse this forum every day. This is the only board (with the occasional bit in ADV) that I look at on this forum. I've seen two, even three days go by without a single post in a single topic. I remember the days when I'd have to check this board 3-5 times a day just to keep up with posts. The days when you had to choose between RPGs to join because there were so many interesting ones, and you only had time for a few.



I actually agree with my brother on this one...strangely enough. I don't think anyone on this forum has the right to point fingers when it comes to inactivity. I myself haven't been very active lately either, but like Bear and Kalah said, there hasn't been much going on because all of the older, more experienced RPers have MUCH busier lives than we used to (back in the good ol' days when I was *cough*14 *cough*). Lots of work needs to be done in this forum if we're ever going to have major activity again, but that's another issue all together.

However, as for UC and JT, I agree that they've been lacking in their "duties" as mods. I can understand not having time to be active, but if they're too busy for the forum, then they shouldn't be mods. They should step down and let someone else with more time to devote to the board take their place. BUT, I also side with Bear that I don't think a petition is the right way to go about it.

Though...If UC and JT don't appear soon to defend themselves then, well, that sort of speaks for itself, doesn't it? I say we give them a deadline. If they still want to be Mods, we give them till a certain date to plead their case and why they should still have the position. It may just turn out that neither of them really want the Mod spot anymore, which would make this a lot easier.

Heh...know what's kind of ironic? This is the most active a topic has been for months... And it's about inactive Mods. XD Lol, go figure. The only time people make an attempt to post is when there's controversy to be dealt with. Hmm...kind of like politics, huh? :D

[Plantae]

The general position of most of you that have refused to or are reluctant to sign it seems to be either that the moderators are doing their jobs in terms of what moderation is, as a whole, and also in that electing a new moderator is hardly cause for a revolution.

This forum has never been like any of the others- and in that the moderator's duties should be different. Moderation here requires a constant and vibrant effort to stop inactivity and to bring in new recruits. The RPG Forum does not deserve to be compared to something such as PCG.

The community itself may be inactive, yes, and part of this may have to do with schedules and age groups, indeed; the simple truth, however, is that the two moderators in question are in general opinion considered to be doing their basic duties which anyone with the proper means would be capable of, and that is all. I agree that the ASB/RPG idea was an interesting one, and could yet prove fruitful: but do we want moderators who give up after the first real try? Hypocrisy in this does not lessen the point. We are inactive yes, but that makes them no less inactive.

There is a large amount of work to be done that the community must also take part in. However, someone has to step up as leader, so why have two leaders who are incapable of doing so? Creating a vibrant forum requires organized effort, for all of you are right- few of us have made much individual effort to help the forum, for there has been no one there to tell us to do so. And that is what human nature so often requires: direction.

[Heald]

In light of recent discussion and the fact that neither UC or JT has bothered to defend themselves I shall sign this, although I do consider them to be good friends but if we want to revive this forum we need active moderators.

[Mega Horny]

whatever. *signs*

[Tyler and Hobbes]

At first I was in the opinion that Ultimate and Outlaw should step down on their own, but after reading through the rest of the discussion... And so, wherever you are... *signs the petition*


Edit- Just checked the lounge - we're not totally dead. :cool2:

[Fai D. Flowright]

[color=#990A66]Tis my turn now!

I would like to say, right off, that I am signing this petition.

Now, onto discussive matters. Even as the newest mod of the forum, I can now reason that it takes more than just "watching over the forum" to keep things working and active. In order for things to stay interesting, it takes more effort that just popping into the board for a few minutes to make sure things are in place. It requires participation and, as Plantae said, some direction. Even the most random and spontaneous of plans still have to have some direction to reach a worthwhile conclusion.

Another aspect that I now feel as a mod (that I'm sure must have driven Kalah up the wall alone), is that Kalah and I must pull our weight around in the forum, helping as much as we can, while the other two merely watch from the sidelines, doing little to nothing for the betterment of the forum. As mentioned by several others, it can easily be seen, with a little research, that neither JT or UC have contributed anything beneficial to the forum in the past several months. It's somewhat stressful, and even irritating at times, to deal with as well as try to help the board become more active as well.

Another aspect some of you have brought to attention is the fact that there is little use in having active mods if the forum is inactive itself, but I think the problem stems from that. Perhaps the forum is inactive BECAUSE the mods are also inactive. Having mods that are consistently involved in the community and will to work together for a more progressive forum will help to make the board more active again. Keeping around what we already have will only cause the problem to progress further. There is only so much Kalah and I can do without that extra boost of help.

In the light of this matter, I conclude, as a both a member of the RPG community and a moderator of the board, that this petition has sound reason to be followed through with.

[The_Missing_Link]

whatever. *signs*


When you post in a forum, you should always have something constructive to say. Don't just tag along and do something on a whim without giving input. Your spammy posts are less than desirable


I do agree with those that are saying that as we grow older, our lives become more busy and it's tougher to stay active. Five years ago, I had all the time in the world to participate in RPGs. Now, I limit myself to one because college is taking up most of my time (although I'm in none right now because all the RPGs out right now are inactive or don't interest me)

I'm signing because when you become a mod, you gain the responsibility of taking care of a forum and doing whatever you can to make it prosperous. When you become too busy to live up to your duties, you should realize that it's time to step down and let someone with a less hectic life to take over. I've felt for a while that UC needed to step down - he says he lurks but you also need to post on a regular basis to keep the regulars satisfied that you're around (I don't have anything against him, it's just what I've observed). As for Outlaw, if he says that life is keeping him from posting and he can't do anything about it, he has to go. In the end, TPM is just a hobby and sometimes life prevents you from continuing on with that hobby

[Hyperness is a Good Thing]

UC did create a new topic recently, "Realtime" or something like that. Just pointing that out.

Yeah, sure the mods haven't really been active.. and those who have been around for longer do remember those "good old days" that most senior RP-ers still talk about. A lot. Yeah, I remember those times, and heck, it was fun too.. but instead of sitting on our butts missing them, if you really wanna see even a *LITTLE* bit of that once again... go out and post. YOU can make the difference. ;P.

Bleh, ignore that. I'm signing, because I think the RPG forum needs newer, more enthusiastic mods with more ideas and definitely more time(not that I have anything against B4 and Tsukasa - as far as I know they're more or less doing pretty fine, and they do take the trouble to post.)

[Arnen]

I'll sign, too. I wish I had a big long speech to go with it, but I don't ^^;

[Kuro Espeon]

I'm going to re-state what I suggested before and see what you all think about it.

I think we should give UC and JT a date. And they will have until this said date to show up and defend themselves. If they don't, then they're demodded. This will also give them a chance to show if they're actually paying attention and if they actually have TIME to be Mods. Also, it will give them a chance to say wether or not they still WANT to be Mods. I think that's the most simple and fair way of going about this, but obviously not everyone is going to agree. *shrug*

[Roy Karrde]

If this was a normal mod not appearing on the forums like what happened to Bulbasaur4, then I would understand and agree. But this isnt, Outlaw JT and Ultimate Charizard will show up, they do so about each week and stay around for five minutes. For most forums that run themselves that would be fine, and back in the day that would be fine here too. But this forum has degraded due to a lack of skills and creative thinking by the leadership. And we can blame ourselves for that if we want, but as a Famous President once said 'The Buck Stops Here'. And just like any other office, the mods are held responcable for the upkeep of this forum. We need a change, we need mods like Tsukasa and Bulbasaur4 that remain active and dont post only once per Season. The Buck Stops Here guys, Outlaw JT and Ultimate Charizard can come on and give the most Gradious excuse. If one ever comes, I would like to know Outlaw's excuse for not posting for four months back in November, or possibly Ultimate Charizard's excuse for not making a actual Role Playing post since May. I'm a proud RPGer, I always have been proud of this forum, but I cannot be proud of a mod that is about to come up upon his one year anniversary of not role playing, or a mod that takes months off from the forum. We can give them excuses, or they can come up for excuses for themselves. Yet in the end, it comes down to what that President said, The Buck Stops Here.

[Green Lanturn]

I was only in the chatroom for a couple of minutes, as my time in the RPG forum is limited.

Beingf a high school senior, I find myself more occupied, but I do spend lots of time here at TPM, mostly in PCG, but every other day Im in here, and I agree that I have seen the amount of inactivity from these two.

Other than that, I can say no more, but I do agree we need to let them defend at themselves at least, but dont wait too long, for it only shows more their lack of activeness.

TPM needs active mods.

I am signing this petition.

~GL

[Ultimate Charizard]

Right, my turn.
For your information i have been watching this progress for sometime but i thought id just wait and get a feel for peoples real opinions of me. It soon shows who your friends are.
As for what has been said, Im on this site EVERY DAMN DAY! checking things over, not 5 min once a week. And alot of you say i havent posted in too long. Have you checked my 'last post record'...oh i remember, it was me posting in the away topic that i was going on holiday.
And thankyou to the poster that pointed out i did try to start an RPG recently though i overcomplicated things and ruined my own plot with a stats and abilities system to try something new (you know, the creativity you say i dont show enough of)
If you want creativity how about someone try an rpg that doesnt resemble at least 3 others on the board already? When i fist joined there were signups for dozens of rpgs that interested me each with different plots, ideas, methods etc. Then we started getting into 'the age of..' syndrome. First it was Schools, then it was Pokebabies, the the Dark/moody phase which i dont think weve really left. Ive noticed a couple of the old styles popping up (theres another school rpg) but at least its not all the same styles. Variety = Creativity its that simple.
I have plot lines running through my head right now and could start maybe 3 rpg's however i will be going away on holiday again soon and so there isnt any point in doing so right now. Also i didnt like any of the current rpg's enough to join up so again, whats the point posting and joining up for the sake of it knowing full well i couldnt keep up, (and then getting accused of more serious inactivity your accusing JT of)

Im not going to start posting random crap just to say 'hello im still here' and spam the board up. The mods are supposed to 'police' the board laws, not break them and if i dont see anything that needs sorting out, and i dont see a plot that interests me, and i dont have time to run my own, then i wont post. So if you dont like the way i work then fine, send the petition off to LP and get me booted. Your the posters, its your choice and i wont fight you. Im not one of these that think i have some sort of 'power' just cos im a mod though i would suggest that maybe we dont need a replacement since the boards are so quiet. I also suspect a couple of the people accusing (especially those who wont consider the opinions in our defence) are trying to use this for their own rise to power.

I would finally like to commend the comments that were brought up in regards to whose fault the inactivity really is. You guys are the RPG'ers. Its our job to keep the board to the rules, not act as motivational support. If you guys arent posting, (again as said, this is the most active thread) then what are the mods supposed to do?

[Plantae]

I have recognized your particular committment to basic moderation, Ultimate Charizard. I have read your profile to look at activity; I had not seen that Away message, but I had always been under the impression that you had a reason anyway. In summary, I agree on you on every point except for one.

I would think if I and others could see that RPG needs a moderator with more zeal, who is willing to do more than watch and carefully control, that someone in the position as yourself with an expected wisdom would realize the same. The forum here has no need of moderation at all in that sense, no; we need moderation in motions and charisma and precedence, the precedence to take charge and push towards a future where posting is entertaining again. For that is the bottom line, is it not? Even if schedules are a large factor, it all falls back to lack of interest in comparison to other things, does it not?

I believe those who are reading this topic grow tired of all of us repeating ourselves. We all so explicitly know that we are inactive as a whole. But this most certainly is not only the roleplayers fault; neither do the two of you deserve to be scapegoats, either, but I again digress.

It remains a difference in opinion, and a vital one. The word "moderator" may very well have the connotations you speak of, but really only in relevance to other forums. For you are all certainly here for something, and if we are as well policed by ourselves as you claim, then what use are you? It is obligatory that you, sir, make something more of yourself should you hope to even come close to fulfiling your supposed position.

For what is in a title? Very little, really. But it still remains that you were placed here for a purpose, and if that purpose is fulfilled, is it not natural that you would seek another pursuit? This forum needs effort- for what more are you than role models?

When we as roleplayers see our moderators languishing in their positions, falling out of favor, and doing little to help a dying forum- then what do we do as roleplayers?

We follow as sheep- waiting patiently for a sign of action- being disappointed. The two of you are no more than black sheep in the flock. What we see is what we do, so when you set the example to watch and wait from the sidelines, and to let what was once flourishing decay- what message do you think that sends?

Posting is a fickle thing. And so are ideas. Both cannot exist independently, and the income of the latter has withered of late. For ideas are but plans, schemes, and notions and all are the devices of the luminaries, the higher authority, managers.

Do not forget that what was lost is yet retrievable. For I lied. Moderator may be mediator, but it comes from a Latin word, and in the end it also means "he who leads."

[Fai D. Flowright]

[color=#990A66]I'm sorry, but I feel that your comment needs a reply...

It's exactly that attitude that is preventing this forum from going anywhere. You can't just watch from the sidelines and hope that people will just take action. Being a mod doesn't just mean following the rules and keeping the forum in line; it DOES mean that you should be helping to inspire the board, and its members, to flourish. Monkey See, Monkey Do. If people see the mods merely watching and waiting, then that is what the people will do.

If you're on every day, then you could be making efforts to start topics that help the forum. Look at some of the ideas that have come forth in the Lounge by people FINALLY taking initiative. Those are things that you or JT could have started, but have had nothing to do with, simply watching the forum in near-hiding. I've personally taken an interest in these and several of the other projects to make it known to others that I want to help. If the theory that merely "policing" the boards is all a mod needs to do, then remove me from the position!

Obviously, if any and/or all of us want this section of TPM to develop again, we need another moderator, like Kalah and myself, who is willing to step forward as some kind of leader for this forum. The key to success is not observation, but action. Apparently, neither you nor JT have the devoted time and initiative to get things running and people are, apparently, sick of waiting around...

[Hatake Kakashi]

Consider me signing.


Albeit this is my second post, I've lurked for a while. And I'm no stranger to forums or RPG boards. A moderator is supposed to be active in the RPGs.

Granted this place seems to be inundated with "dark" and "moody"(i.e goth) RPGs, and there really needs to be a change in that respect. And that COULD be attributed to the mods, too. Especially when they complain that there's a lack of creativity.

You can't kick a field of dirt and yell at the tomato crop for not growing if all you planted is corn.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Some good points and im not arguing.
Im the first to admit i havent been posting. But i already mentioned the reasons why.
Im not signing up to rpg's that dont interest me just for the sake of it. Its harmfull to the RPG and the creator deserves better than some half a$$ed effort. Also currently i dont have time to create my own rpgs though shortly, (about a month when im back from holiday) i will have more free time and the plots im developing should be about ready to go.

This thread has become more about the role of the mods now. Police or Cheerleader. Fair enough its probably a mix of both however the reason my last post sounded so aggressive is due to the Original post. We were being accused of plain inactivity. Neglecting the job in a straight out public attack. If it was felt i wasnt doing my job, thats what my pm box is for. Have a word and ill get right back to you.
Im wont be accused of just not being bothered about the Forum.

[The_Missing_Link]

Christ Plantae, how old are you? That sounded like a college lecture or something


I can see where you're coming from UC as in each forum, a mod does different things. As a former (but now pseudo) mod of ASB, posting almost everyday is a given. If you don't post for a week and haven't said anything in the Absence Tower, you know someone is going to get on your ass. On the other spectrum is PCG/AC/CC. Posting isn't required - just lurking around trying to find spammers and closing big game topics is all that's needed. You don't join RPGs that don't interest you, I don't participate in games or polls that don't interest me

But somewhere along the middle is RPG. Lurking is ok, but the RPGers need the constant satisfaction of seeing their leaders post on a somewhat regular basis. Back in the day, I always looked at Kalah, Ginger and whoever modded back then as the leaders. They created the fantastic RPGs and if they joined an RPG, you knew what kind of person was participating. You are on that border - lurking a lot but not posting enough. Obviously, it was a big enough concern for a number of members of the community to talk about it in a chat room and then making a public topic about it. Yeah, maybe Roy Karrde made himself sound like a moron in the first post but he has his concerns

Perhaps the best solution is for you to step down and let someone a little more enthusiastic take over. You'll have your time to relax and then after you come back from vacation, you'll be able to participate actively again and without the pressure to make yourself present on a consistent basis

[Roy Karrde]

Well I was going to wait and hold off in posting in this but I guess I should. Ultimate Charizard, if you want to take subtle jabs at me saying that I am doing this for my own gain, or that I should have PMed you instead of dragging this out into a public forum, then that is your right. I started this topic and I should be held up to critisism. The problem is that I wasn't the one that came up with the idea of this topic. It wasn't just me, or another person, or two other people, it was a group of more than ten RPGers that finally decided something had to happen. I just decided that I would be the one that would write the language up for it and post it after it met the approval of some in the group.

You may not recognize it or you just may not care, but that is the harm that you have done, you have caused so many people to recognize that we do need a change. And not just that ten. Almost what 19 people total have signed this? This place doesnt need a Police man, when was the last time the RPG Forum was attacked? When was the last time we truely needed a Police Man mod? We need a mod right now that takes initiative as so many others have said. You and JT can sit back as you wish and go on your vacations, but eventually you will come back and there wont be a forum to moderate. People need direction just look at what is happening in the Lounge, people are starting to use that. And it wasnt a police man that spured that activity, it was a moderator that was doing what he is meant to do in the RPG Forum, create ideas and topics. The men and women that helped put together those topics, they were not cheerleaders, they were captains of the team, as mods should be.

If you have had so many ideas, why wait till now to bring them up? Where were these ideas back in January? Where were these ideas when this forum needed them? If you have these ideas why not list them out? We cant have Vacation mods, we cant have check in and check out mods, we must have creative mods. If you cant understand that then you probably do not understand why so many people are posting in this topic.

[The_Missing_Link]

Well I was going to wait and hold off in posting in this but I guess I should. Ultimate Charizard, if you want to take subtle jabs at me saying that I am doing this for my own gain, or that I should have PMed you instead of dragging this out into a public forum, then that is your right. I started this topic and I should be held up to critisism. The problem is that I wasn't the one that came up with the idea of this topic. It wasn't just me, or another person, or two other people, it was a group of more than ten RPGers that finally decided something had to happen. I just decided that I would be the one that would write the language up for it and post it after it met the approval of some in the group.

You may not recognize it or you just may not care, but that is the harm that you have done, you have caused so many people to recognize that we do need a change. And not just that ten. Almost what 19 people total have signed this? This place doesnt need a Police man, when was the last time the RPG Forum was attacked? When was the last time we truely needed a Police Man mod? We need a mod right now that takes initiative as so many others have said. You and JT can sit back as you wish and go on your vacations, but eventually you will come back and there wont be a forum to moderate. People need direction just look at what is happening in the Lounge, people are starting to use that. And it wasnt a police man that spured that activity, it was a moderator that was doing what he is meant to do in the RPG Forum, create ideas and topics. The men and women that helped put together those topics, they were not cheerleaders, they were captains of the team, as mods should be.

If you have had so many ideas, why wait till now to bring them up? Where were these ideas back in January? Where were these ideas when this forum needed them? If you have these ideas why not list them out? We cant have Vacation mods, we cant have check in and check out mods, we must have creative mods. If you cant understand that then you probably do not understand why so many people are posting in this topic.


Dude, it's not like he's taking a vacation to spite you and everyone here. It's annoying, yes, but it's probably like every other family vacation we take. You've probably taken vacations yourself and as annoying as it can be for a regular member, it sucks for a mod because they can't be around like they want to. And he's not harming anyone, RPG has gone downhill since Ginger left. It reminds me of ASB in a sense and a change is needed, but we don't need to be harsh about it

[Ultimate Charizard]

What so im not allowed a holiday away from home for the first time in 5 years? Im not allowed yo use the away forum?
As for 'where were my ideas in January' look down the board a little bit. Its called Realtime and even though it never got past the signup due to my over ambitious signup, its still on the first page due to the Inactivity from and lack of creativity from anyone else.
Your right, i was hinting that i suspected you trying to jump into the first available mod spot and there are a few little hints and clues all over the board so dont try saying your just the messenger. I posted originally that it was those who refused to consider our defence that i suspected and youve done exactly that. Another attack just having a go at me and blatantly ignoring what has been said throwing the same arguments at me. (ie no new rpgs since May, which someone else poitned out to u)
Ive tried, hardly anyone seemed interested (and it took far too much explaining from me, my bad). Ive seen the 'revival' in the Lounge though i have a feeling more people will be interested in thinking up their charachters them tunes, than they are their plots. As for the 'what does your charachter look like', i take it thats non descriptive (thats in your signup) which means only people who can draw or have art interests are going to use it. Ive nothing against that as i love to see the talented artists we have but again one of thos things that could end up more popular than the actual rpg'ing itself.

(edit) knew id forgot one. I do actually like the Plot resolution thread. An OOC style thread has been missing and continuation for some rpgs really suffers. Great idea.

[Plantae]

I for one do not dispute your right to a vacation and noticed your RPG.

Roy Karrde volunteered to be messenger, and all of us agreed to let it be so. Roy seems to me a generally friendly person and a valuable member, or at least by what little I know of him. If there are hints that he should be moderator, they are not entirely undeserved. I give him the benefit of a doubt that he may have missed mention of your RPG, and that if he was repetitive, it may or may not have been by accident.

My opinion may be biased, and if you believe it so, it is yours to ignore as you please.

But that Plot Resolution topic, admittantly useful, that you are praising? It was his idea.

[Bulbasaur4]

[color=royalblue]

Alright… there are a few points and discussions I want to touch upon, however I’m slightly unsure of where to start. Let me first start by addressing you, Gav. (After rereading it... towards the middle of the post, I am no longer directing it towards Gav... but using 'you' as a wholistic approach to moderators and the board. )

In your first post you should a bit of displeasure at the lack of ‘defense’ from others. I couldn’t help but have that inkling of a feeling that perhaps you were expecting that from me, so I shall explain. The reason I did not rush to your aid blatantly was because I am attempting to look at this whole subject and ‘problem’ with a rather unbiased viewpoint. All of you (and I mean all of the RPGers) I consider friends, and so then when I must make moderation decisions, it can be a bit complicated. Don’t get me wrong- rules are rules- but again, it does take some thinking and careful stepping so not to raise anger from anyone. I hope that everyone in this forum understands that my role as a friend and my role as a moderator are two separate entities, and thus when I must make a moderation decision it is not a matter of friendship but just my duty to make the best call possible. So with this in mind Gav, I hope you understand the position I am in and what I am trying to decide. You are my friend and we’ve had a lot of history. Back in the ‘past’ we were a great trio of moderators, but it is now time for me to clearly define where I stand. While I am unsure if demodding in the answer, I do believe that perhaps you and Jeff need to decide if it is worth holding your position as a moderator anymore. While you have been browsing the boards and I know you’ve been lurking about and watching, it still is not satisfying enough to many members that you exist about in the board.
You see, the RPG forum is different than most boards. Moderators upon other boards are seen about because they usually have more spam and problems, and thus their actions are always seen. Moderators who have “easy” boards where there is little spam and such, usually post around the board or in their own forum often enough to be acknowledged and such. I am happy that you attempted to create an RPG and that Jeff did make a post in an RPG as of late- yet that simply and sadly, is not enough. With our RPG board… you must make your presence known. If you do not take interests in any RPGs or lack the time to create a new RPG that gains others’ interest, then you must find other ways to let them know you are around. Post in the “Idea” topic and tell others what you think of their ideas or perhaps even just go around commenting on a few RPGs to tell them what you think. Yes, this isn’t normally what a moderator does… but it lets the RPers know you are there and also helps you gain their respect. Everyone- I believe everyone- appreciates a good piece of advice or compliment now and then.
Yet I’m going off my main point…
One of the things I’ve seen a few people lack to mention is another important role of a moderator. Yes, moderators are supposed to be the ‘police’… but yet I like to think of them as leaders- like Plantae said – and some one who helps guide people in the forum. Perhaps this isn’t your definition of a moderator, but I’m sure you’ll agree that a moderator should be available to help RPers whenever they need aid. One important thing I noticed is that both you and Jeff are a bit hard to follow and track these days. If an RPer needed advice or help, it would be hard for them to contact you. I haven’t seen you on AIM lately… of course; perhaps you do not use AIM anymore. There have been a few instances in the past where I have PMed you (and Jeff) and not received a reply. I know that it could have been just the wrong time and you may have been on some sort of break, but still… it is rather hard and lately with the lack of both of your presences, I’ve felt rather alone until Tsukasa came along.
I’m not complaining… I feel like I’m qualified to hold the RPG forum in tact, but of course I can’t do everything (which is one of the reasons I am thankful for Tsukasa’s moderation.)
I guess what I am saying… is we can point fingers at reasons for the RPG forum’s inactivity and try to pin point whose fault it is. Some Rpers say it is a “lack of creativity” which is shying people away… and that the RPG forum is in a ‘dark and moody’ phase and that there are too many RPGs like that.
To that, I laugh. Obviously if there are many RPGs like that… then it means that those types of RPGs are in a high demand- meaning that people LIKE those RPGs and thus want to continue them. If some one wanted something different, all they would have to do is simply create another topic and start a new RPG. If others wanted change, they would sign up…I f they don’t, well then obviously that type of RPG is in the wane and a change is not needed right away or wanted. Personally, I love dark rpgs… but then again, I like the light and fluffy RPGs as well. I don’t think it is a lack of creativity that is hurting the forum, but merely just many “points” put together. (Example: people being busy…) Whatever the reason, it is not important. No one is saying that it is the moderators fault for the RPG forum declining entirely. If they were, I would have to step in and beat them with a stick… because obviously I too am in a moderation position.

I suppose that is why this topic sort of makes me sick in a way. I am a moderator, and I feel horrible when people talk about the forum in such a negative light… or any aspect in a negative light.

The thing is the RPers are the one in powers. Moderators- in general- are elected to their position by majority opinion. Even moderators who are chosen by other moderators take in the opinion and ideas of the RPers. (It has been this way in the RPG forum forever, except for one incident with TMM.) If the RPers think that the moderators should do more than be police, then the moderators in the RPG forum must do so. It isn’t a matter of choice – we have to, in my opinion – because we’re not here to run the show; we’re here to back it up. If the RPers want some thing, us moderators must and should do it to make them happy. THAT is what being a moderator is about… keeping the forum in a pleasant and ‘happy’ mood and if it falls into a darkened state, we should do our best to get it on its feet again. Now, this doesn’t mean we should try to make it busier or lively… because that is quantity and not quality. Instead, we should try to make it just pleasant. (This is why we police and make sure there is no spam.) We should always remain open to opinions and the ideas of others, as well as enjoy ourselves.
Moderation, for me… in my personal view, comes down to: do I enjoy what I do? Personally, I enjoy being in RPGs and discussing RPGs with RPers and role playing. I love coming up with new ideas and helping everyone else and doing the best I can to make the forum great. I’ve been on the forum since I was in 6th grade, and considering that I am now a freshman in college… just shows how much I care and love this board. It isn’t just because I like RPGs and that passion hasn’t died, but because I enjoy the RPers themselves. I enjoy watching new RPers come to the board and how they improve with their ideas. Even people who came with RPing experience have changed some-what and involved themselves and grown with some friendships on the board.

I just believe, that overall… you must love the community and have the passion. With out, no one is going to do a good job- both as a moderator and an RPer. That is just some thing to go by as guidelines for being here in any position (not just a position of “power”.)


Yeah… that was long winded, but I really would love things to just get settled. The RPers have made their stances and I’ve heard yours Gav.
I guess one of the questions you and Jeff, and maybe the RPers themselves must ask themselves is not “What would you gain if you stayed” but “What would you lose if you left?”

[Outlaw JT]

1) If any of you had a problem with U_C or myself (and apparently a lot of you do) you should have PMed us or one of the other moderators about it first. Instead of letting us or the other moderators know you had any concerns with us you posted a thread publicly attacking us and accusing us more or less of being solely responsible for the decline of the entire RPG forum. Some people have clarified that things our not exclusively our fault, others have contended that the forum would thrive if someone more active was in our places. The way in which this has been handled is underhanded, hurtful, spiteful, and opportunistic. Whether or not any of the originators have designs on a moderator position or not, it still comes off as a bit of a political coup. You should've come to us or at the very least one of the other moderators so that they could bring up these concerns with us before posting anything like this. If we failed to reply to such concerns or met them in a completely unreasonable fashion then a topic like this would've been perfectly reasonable.

2) U_C and myself are no more and no less responsible for the life or death of this forum than EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU!!! Shifting the blame for the general decline of the forum to us exclusively is hypocritical! Many times in the past U_C and myself have started and participated in numerous RPG's at the same time. The forum was dying during several of those periods. The forum is dying now. Point: the forum was dying just as much when both of us were still highly active RPers so saying that our current inactivity is the cause of all these troubles is completely and utterly flawed logic!! Neither of us can make people post and be active. Could we start discussion topics or post new RPG's to try and stimulate activity? Certainly. Of course, both of us have done that in the past only to be faced with slew after slew of inactive posters. Activity in the forum starts with the average RPer. As someone else said, if no one is posting there is nothing for us to moderate.

3) For your personal reference Roy Karrde, I have not been taking a vacation nor have I taken a vacation in many, many years. I happen to have a job that works me 60 hours a week so trying to make it sound like I am casually blowing off my duties to take a holiday is truly insulting.

4) I apologize that this post is taking a somewhat heated tone but after three very long days of work I signed on to find a thread full of people casting blame and levying accusations against me without one person EVER having come to me mentioning they had any concerns. It is something called common courtesy and I am very saddened by the lack of it many of you have shown.

5) I have no intention of resigning my position as RPG moderator. However, if the community is voicing that they believe they and the forum will be more active in general if all the mods take a more prominent role then I will start finding a way to make more time to that effect.

[Weasel Overlord]

[color=thistle]I'm not sure I agree that the forum is 'dying' as such...for example, look at the rpg's on the first page. Just after christmas, a few of us made a pact to create as many rpg's as we could to liven up the forums. Tsukasa (only a fairytale), Ry Karrde (Chronicles of the Rift), Mystic_Clown (calamity boarding school), the sequel to WHOOP for crying out loud! And not to forget mine and Plantae's two, The River and Otherworld, both of which have been running for months. Just try and tell us we're not active. (though I was slightly frustrated at the amount of people who just...dropped out of Otherworld within a few weeks...) There are rpg's with three and four, hell, even twelve pages sitting right there on the front page of the board. Surely that counts for some activity!

For my second point. Moderators were consulted. Tsukasa and B4. Both moderators, both sharing almost the same viewpoints.

If you have a job that takes 60 hours of your time, JT, then surely you can admit for yourself that you are busy. Perhaps even too busy to run the board. *shrugs* Obviously if you feel you can handle it, then none of us have a right to force you to step down, though as it has been previously stated, a moderator in RPG needs to have his/her presense felt.

Maybe it is too harsh of us to ask for you both to be demodded. But you have admitted to being busy, so surely you don't have the time for the responsibility? No-one is criticising you for going on holidays, and I know it probably feels that way, maybe because of the way the petition was worded, I don't know.
I seriously do not believe that there is any malicious content in this petition, nor in any of the comments that have arisen from it. I certainly don't feel any anger towards you two, and I'm sure it's the same with many of the others who have signed. My only qualm is the fact that has been stated many times already; a moderator in RPG needs to be at least semi-active. Posting in topics, as B4 suggested, could be a good way of showing that you're still around. Even acknowledging all of the new topics in the Lounge might be a start. And if you don't feel like joining any of the rpg's, then fine. Don't. But if you don't like the stuff thats around now, why not make ones you do like? And U_C, I know you made one; I considered joining it myself, but the rules were just too complicated. JT, I joined one of yours (Labyrinth) not so long back, but even though it was revived, it never actually got past the sign-ups, a great disappointment, as I was looking forward to rp-ing in it...

And I can only apologise if you both take any of my comments the wrong way. I mean no ill-will.

[Bear]

"Ask not what your RPG board can do for you...but what you can do for your RPG board."
-John F. Kennedy

Alright, alright people, time to step back a second and put your swords away. Before this escalates into a flame war, we need to go back and reconsider what this petition is actually about. The true role of a "Moderator" in the RPG board.

I'll state my opinion first. I think a moderator should be more human, more down to earth. Simply put, a moderator shouldn't be above us, they should be ONE OF US. Every moderator this board has ever had was first an active RPGer. From Ginger Cat, to Mew, to BBP, to B4, all the way to Tsukasa. They earned their place by being effective, charismatic creators of RPGs and characters within RPGs. And even after becoming moderators, they remained what they had been and always will be--RPGers. One thing you said in your post JT caught my eye:


I happen to have a job that works me 60 hours a week

I've been there. I know it's stressful, and it leaves little time for anything else. But I also had the humility to admit my imperfections, and realize I had to give up some things I just didn't have time for. I left this board entirely for a while, because I just couldn't find the time to post. Personally, I am not taking issue with your personal life. What you do in real life is your own business. What I take issue with is your refusal to admit that you lack the time to be a true moderator. No, I am not talking about your own definition of a moderator. I am talking about the moderator people EXPECT you to be. It's quite evident from these posts that the RPGers as a community like having active, friendly, and most importantly human moderators. They don't want a policeman. They don't want a judge. They want another RPGer, like them, that they can relate and talk to on a personal level. Can you be that moderator? Can you continue to be an RPGer as well? Think about that. Post again when you have an answer.

[Outlaw JT]

I can, as a matter of fact, be that kind of moderator Bear.

As to being the kind of moderator people expect me to be? No one, until this thread, expressed that they wanted me to be any kind of moderator beyond what I was being. If someone in the forum had just come to me and said they thought I needed to be doing more as a moderator I WOULD HAVE BEEN DOING MORE! No one can live up to expectations without knowing they exist! But, no one ever came to me expressing any concern whatsoever. Rather than appealing to us to either be more active or step down, a group of you have dragged us out into the street with harsh accusations and blame without ever giving us a true chance to respond to your concerns. The only chance you have given us to respond is after posting a thread geared towards vilifying us! Whether that was your intention or not it is exactly how it comes across. You showed us no sense of common courtesy and that is wrong!

If you want us to be more active as moderators, I will make time to be more active. All anyone ever had to do was talk to me about it.

And W_O, I actually did start that rpg but after the introduction posts everyone stopped posting. While I could have been more diligent in encouraging it's survival no one expressed any interest in me keeping it going.

[Hyperness is a Good Thing]

actually for the Labyrinth rpg, JT, I believe most of the posters were waiting for the Gamemaster to post the next step of what was supposed to happen as we were only told to post the introductory post..
That sounded like a pretty good RPG and I was interested in it and was quite disappointed when it died.

[Emotional Faun Chiko-sai]

I'm not going to point fingers, I'm just going to repeat that yes, this board is nowhere near as active as it was during the golden age where RPGs flourished and topics mushroomed. But the present population of RPers (I hope and believe) are trying their best. So maybe when viewed as a comparison it's a crappy best, and it's nowhere as near the best that happened nigh on 3 to 4 years ago. However, we'll have to learn to live with that stigma, and focus on things happening on the board now - so it's apparently dead. That's not a reason to give up! Face it and move on; adapt to the conditions.
Although I agree that I would prefer if matters shouldn't have to be resolved this way: I think that doing things like this, via a topic, is unfortunately paving the path for a flamewar, and I hope it doesn't come to that...
Also, I'd like to say that it's not always the RPers' fault when the mods say so, nor is it always the mod's fault when the RPers say so... there's a fine line there, and we have to trace it.

[Drusilla]

Well, while I have no real right to be pointing fingers at anyone for inactivity, I don't think it's fair that they should be allowed to be mods while there are obviously others who are equally qualified for the job and have the time to do it. Count this as another signature.



(I personally won't be around much for the next six months or so; I'll stop by to keep B&M going every once in a while, but until I'm out of high school and settled into college, don't hold your breath for me to be around much. I'm always availible via AIM, though, nearly every weekday from about 11 AM- 3 PM CST....)

[Toxicity]

Yes. I understand the whole limited time issue. My time starting in August is probably going to be packed; rejoining the band, dealing with advanced courses, and whatnot. However, I have the feeling somewhere in that tight little schedule, I'll manage to find time to post quite a bit. It's tough, yes. I manage to find time now, and even though it's plentiful, it'll eventually be taken up.

And I agree with Chiko-sai. We have faced a decline since the good days back when I began roleplaying here three years ago. Just because of that we shouldn't give up, and not to mention that doesn't give a right then for moderators to be lax, personally. Even if description, creativity, and things have gone down, those of us from those "Roman Empire" days can continue to try and bring us back to a perhaps "Rennaisance."

And with what Bear said, what I think is that the moderators should not only be one of us, but also a disciplinary guide in case havoc runs loose. Well, not exactly wild havoc, but as in something not good enough for the average roleplayer.

[Crystal Tears]

Though this seems like a bit of a harsh way to go about it, and even though I do agree with points on either side of this, dare I say, 'debate'. Consider this a signature, due to the fact that I have been convinced, with over whelming evidence that the simple thing 'time' isn't around anymore. Not much else to say, I don't want to get wrapped up in this thing.

[Ultimate Charizard]

B4 before i start i wasnt pointing a finger at you for not coming to our defence, infact i expected the thought out 'as impartial as i can be' stance from yourself as i know thats how you have to look at things. I was reffering to the fact that before i posted, there was a page and a half of replies berrating us and putting us down with only 2/3 posters even considering that there could be a second side to the argument.
And i have to agree with JT about the whole 'dragged in the street for a public kicking' part. A 1 on 1 debate can get results, a Mob lynching gets people hurt.

I would also like to stop this silly 'stop attacking roy, roy did this, roy did that' thing thats going on. Im not debating how much he is doing for the forum, as has been said before the RPG'ers and the Mods are just as important. What i would like to point out is that alot of you are defending him as i seem to be publicly blaming him and attacking him for his own ambitions. Im not. I know there are at least a half dozen people out there who would like to be a mod, Roy just seems to be the only one making a serious push for it (congrats for having the guts to do so). The reason i got so angry however is because of the way the original post was written. Maybe he was elected to relay the message to us, but it is him that wrote the message. And personally i think it was out of order. And can i also mention, defending him from a public attack, while joining in one against myself and JT makes you all Hypocrits.

And to the poster (sorry to forget the name, there are alot of people in this thread ;)) who mentioned that there is activity on the boards still, around a year or two ago activity meant that each time you logged on to check back with your rpg you may have to look on the second page for it. Right now, there are rpg's last posted in in February that are still on the first page. There were dozens of rpg's with dozens of pages, a few standout ones with Hundreds. This is what people are missing and, whether its capable of going back to that or not, this is what myself and JT are being blamed for.

What i am going to suggest is a time scale. Now we actually know that your not happy with us we can make an effort to change how we operate. I, as mentioned may be slower to get up to speed than JT rpg wise as im not starting anything now when im going away again in a weeks time, but after that u will see rpgs from me and in the meantime i will do more as has been suggested to make my presence felt.
If after that time we still arent doing our jobs then fair enough you have a valid complaint against us and id agree steps need to be taken. However if we are back to doing our jobs as we once were then noone (except for those wanting our positions) will have a valid reason to complain.

[Hatake Kakashi]

1) If any of you had a problem with U_C or myself (and apparently a lot of you do) you should have PMed us or one of the other moderators about it first.
From the sounds of the first post, they PMed the other mods and all parties agreed this was the best way to go about it.

Roy is just the messenger, if anything.

Instead of letting us or the other moderators know you had any concerns with us you posted a thread publicly attacking us and accusing us more or less of being solely responsible for the decline of the entire RPG forum.
Like it or not, Mods are an example on this forum. Sure it'd be nice to be like Penny Arcade where a mod is just another member who can punish you, but here it seems like you guys are far more looked upon to do something big or 'moderater'-ly.

Some people have clarified that things our not exclusively our fault, others have contended that the forum would thrive if someone more active was in our places. The way in which this has been handled is underhanded, hurtful, spiteful, and opportunistic. Whether or not any of the originators have designs on a moderator position or not, it still comes off as a bit of a political coup.
When a president sucks, we impeach them(well, USUALLY ;)) and when a moderator sucks(no offense of course) then we demod them.
You guys don't seem to be doing your job(and no, it isn't just being police.) and that's grounds for demodding.



You should've come to us or at the very least one of the other moderators so that they could bring up these concerns with us before posting anything like this. If we failed to reply to such concerns or met them in a completely unreasonable fashion then a topic like this would've been perfectly reasonable.
Again read the first post. B4 and Tsukasa were both included in this. I know it's probably involuntary, but please stop treating this like some sort of attack by members who want to be mods.



2) U_C and myself are no more and no less responsible for the life or death of this forum than EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU!!! Shifting the blame for the general decline of the forum to us exclusively is hypocritical!
Maybe the posters CAN help. But you know what? For every Hatake Kakashi, Drusilla, Sango, Tsukasa, Bulbasaur4, and Mystic_clown there's going to be at least 2 people who would rather watch a mod do something than try their own idea.
When half the mods don't do something, they begin to get a bit worried.



Many times in the past U_C and myself have started and participated in numerous RPG's at the same time. The forum was dying during several of those periods. The forum is dying now. Point: the forum was dying just as much when both of us were still highly active RPers so saying that our current inactivity is the cause of all these troubles is completely and utterly flawed logic!!
Were you a moderator at that time? UC has huge gaps in his post history as well.

Arguing that "Because I'm kind of inactive now but was active before I was a mod then I must active now" is flawed logic.


Neither of us can make people post and be active. Could we start discussion topics or post new RPG's to try and stimulate activity? Certainly. Of course, both of us have done that in the past only to be faced with slew after slew of inactive posters. Activity in the forum starts with the average RPer. As someone else said, if no one is posting there is nothing for us to moderate.
So your job is done? Either you guys are unneccassary and the forum does not need 4 moderators, or you two are inactive and simply not working anyway.

One way or another, you two don't seem to be a necessary part of this forum, sorry to say.



3) For your personal reference Roy Karrde, I have not been taking a vacation nor have I taken a vacation in many, many years. I happen to have a job that works me 60 hours a week so trying to make it sound like I am casually blowing off my duties to take a holiday is truly insulting.
Do you live in the US or Canada? If you work 60 hours in the US, you have a right to take time off since 40 is full-time and 60 is "overtime" I believe.

Besides the point though. But it seems you don't have much time to moderate anyways. It's not fair to expect you to work at your job and then do this for free. It'd be relieving you of a thankless situation.


4) I apologize that this post is taking a somewhat heated tone but after three very long days of work I signed on to find a thread full of people casting blame and levying accusations against me without one person EVER having come to me mentioning they had any concerns. It is something called common courtesy and I am very saddened by the lack of it many of you have shown.
Common courtesy would also entail not attacking people for openly stating their opinions and then trying to shrug off blame because you're tired.

I'm sorry it's been a long few days, but these people deserve some say in the matter.


5) I have no intention of resigning my position as RPG moderator. However, if the community is voicing that they believe they and the forum will be more active in general if all the mods take a more prominent role then I will start finding a way to make more time to that effect.

It shouldn't take something like this to get you to make an effort.

[Heald]

First of all, Hatake, you seem to know a bit too much for someone with 5 posts, who were you before the alias change?

Also, this really isn't that important. It isn't like it is a drain on our resources that UC and JT are mods. In their defence I know that they both have busy lives and these lives are getting busier, hence restricting their modding activities. However, JT and UC, ask yourselves - when was the last time you did any real modding? JT, the rules you posted happened over a year ago and while UC opened the ASB/RPG project in which I showed interest but when other people lost interest so did I, after you collectively closed that down (I can't remember how long ago that was) it has all been Tsukasa and B4. Maybe I haven't noticed when you closed someone's RPG and I'm sorry for that but to be honest you just got their before B4 or Tsukasa.

I think someone asked this but what would we, the RPers and you, the mods, lose if both of you were demodded and/or replaced? To JT's own admission he works a 60-hour week and he only checked this forum after three days. This may not be a very fast-moving problem but if you're finding problems trying to keep active in this forum, and forum activity is generally a requisite of being a mod, then perhaps you should step down. Likewise, UC mentioned he has time issues (I think, although I might have misread). Hell, even I have time issues sometimes. It just happens that it is nearly 1 in the morning here and I don't have anything better to do.

I like you both. You're both good RPers and assets to this forum. But, to this end, aside from editting posts, which seems unnecessary in a docile forum such as this, what power do you really lose if you are demodded? You can still RP, and as for influence, even you said it was up to us RPers to generate activity and that is what we're doing the form of the rankings system, the tournament and the various topics that have popped up in the lounge. Inactivity does seem to be a persistant issue and mods, at the very least, need to be active. UC starting an RPG is a good start.

The decision is, do you feel you need to be mods or do you want to be mods? If it is a case of want, you might want to evaluate this : it is a position of minor power on a single forum with about twenty, maybe thirty active roleplayers at any given time on a Pokémon message board.

[Ultimate Charizard]

The 'power' doesnt bother me that much. I like the responsibility more. The thing is i have been around, ive been able to post i just havent felt the need to. I wasnt aware that anyone had a problem with this however. This is why weve become so defensive. Not that we want to hang onto the power, its that we feel attacked out of the blue.

I have almost no time restraints as it is. Sure i do stuff, i have a life offline but so does everyone though im able to be online alot of the time. The only restraints i have is in the near future when i go on holiday.
I just get the impression though that despite everyone saying we are surplus to requirements and so many mods arent needed i know that if we do step down, someone will be pushing to get themselves straight into our positions.
Now we are aware of the problem give us a chance to do something about it rather than kicking us out to let someone jump in who just wants to see what its like to be a mod.

[Fai D. Flowright]

[color=#990A66]Ok, I'm going to blatantly say this right now.

There is no one that is trying to steal the position from either one of you.

There is nobody on here that is purposely trying to push this through to demod the two of your and take up the position instead. The community seems to agree, almost unanimously, that neither of you are fit for the position any more. Obviously, a replacement would be in order, as both Kalah and I agree that we can't run it alone (also seen by the current status, since I haven't seen much help from either of you recently, regardless of the activity of the forum), but there isn't anyone that is trying to strip you of your roles for their own advantages.

I mean, sure, there are always going to be people that WANT the position, but I don't think it's the case here that they are deliberately doing it to gain something.

I'm sorry, but if anything, this SHOULD have been expected by both of you. If you're online so often, then it should have been obvious that things were in decline. We all know that Kalah makes continuous efforts to keep people involved by talking with members on a regular basis and making comments in the Lounge topics. Neither of you have proved that you around, especially within the last few months. What other reason do you see in my modding? Because everyone just "felt like it"? No! Because they wanted another mod that was more active. And actually, to my knowledge, before everything was set, several people were wondering which of you two I was going to be replacing until it was decided that I would be placed as a 4th mod for the board.

Apparently, the community doesn't think you two have the credentials to keep your place as moderators anymore. There have been various clues and comments for quite some time on this subject, its just the neither of you check into things as much as you should be. This board isn't under the "Interactive" section of TPM for no reason...

[Erandi Brazul]

I have a fairly good response for you guys, however I think I need to know a few things first:

1) How long have you two been moderating for?

2) Plantae, wow man...I love your speeches, and your points make sense, but why use so many words? I can read it, but I can barely keep up! You would have done better converting me if you simplified your speech, to attract the "common man."

3) Before I go into my responses and story, I need the MEMBERS to do one thing. I noticed that many of you guys consistently ask the two moderators what they would lose if they resigned. I know that if I were to ask the members the question, "And what would you gain from dropping them and adding new mods," many would reply that having a more "humanistic," "visible," and "constant" moderator would do it for you...

WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL THEM?

Ask yourselves the first time you considered the two moderators bad. Was it before or after this post? I heard perhaps 10 or so members talking about this before-hand...when did you start to feel this way toward UC and JT? If it was during the increased downfall of posts, then you might want to think about a connection between the two...

And trust me, that can work both ways, so think carefully please. I'll be easier to understand when it's NOT 3:50 in the morning, and I have my two answers responded (or debated...).

I will not sign the petition for the reasons stated, nor have any of the members convinced me through their arguments. Oh, and I recommend everyone read B4's argument. I believe it holds the most significance to your decisions.

[Krystalline Kabutops]

Not sure my opinion is valid any more... But consider it signed.

[Plantae]

I appreciate the compliment, and entirely concede. I am often wordy. The fact remains that the human mind is done good by thinking a little harder than the norm, and if you are not the sort of person willing to look up a word or two just to understand, then you are probably not the person I was speaking to. I have little sympathy for any man or woman who is willing to be "common."

I know personally that I did not tell them simply because it seemed far too obvious. I have seen, on more than one occasion (especially in Charizard's case), someone declare that one or the other was inactive. This may be exaggerated.

The difficulty is also: how do you talk to someone whom you are not even sure is online or not? It would seem for a long period of time that the only method of contacting either of them was through something a little more obvious than a private message, and so this thread has arisen.

A moderator should not have to be told they are inactive. It is a simple concept to comprehend.

But I entirely agree that it would have been polite to tell them this privately first.

[Ultimate Charizard]

A little more obvious than PM? It would have been nice to recieve even that.
How are we supposed to tell if people are unhappy with us? Smoke signals? Putting our ear to the ground?
My MSN addy is in my profile, my PM box is clear so its not a case of it being to full. Im not hard to reach.

And before someone else says the mods were notified and consulted on this, it doesnt count when the mods you asked were a: involved in the original discussion, and b: not the mods in question.

Oh and Tsukasa why are you getting so defensive? You are one of those people that i mentioned that dont seem willing to look at the other side of the argument. 'Hung before the Trial' i believe the expression goes.
It did seem rather pedantic that as soon as i give credit where it is due in the Lounge that the next thing you post is a 'who did what' pointing out that the person i (wrongly or rightly) suspected of trying to oust me was the one who came up with that particular idea.
Dont you see that since alongside yourself and B4, Roy is the main contributor in that forum (apologies to any others but roy is doing alot in the lounge) and as i said, credit where credit is due though when people get overly defensive it seems to me they are denying it a little 'too' much.
Dont take this as any sort of insult. Just relax and think about what is being said (as i have had to with a couple of the more harsh posts so far), its like B4 has said. A moderator needs to be impartial to everyone. You seem to be dead set on dragging us infront of the Firing squad.

[Ultimate Charizard]

Oh and by the way i was just browsing through my old posts and came up across something i think you should check.

Since your all so hyped about the Lounge i was surprised to remember i had posted this and noone had seen it.
http://www.pokemasters.net/forums/index.php?topic=43203.msg612189#msg612189

Back in November, i noticed there was something going on against us. I had heard whispers and i openly asked for them. I said come to me and tell me if you have a problem. Noone did so i assumed it was all ok.
Dont come attacking me now with lies that i havent posted since last may. I gave you the chance to get your issues out with me and you all stayed quiet then.

Admittedly i did state then that i would be becoming more active however that was before something happened at home. I was still online and browsing but not really in a story telling mood. Im sure you all have secrets, this is one of mine. Please dont start asking what happened, and i suggest, unless you really do want to provoke me into actions that probably would get me unmodded if not banned, dont taunt me over it. Its a very personal matter and ill thank you to have some level of respect. I know it seems odd that i bring this up now as i hadnt wanted to mention anything of my personal life at all i just feel i cant explain myself properly without being honest.