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Plantae
21st May 2006, 12:18 PM
Mod Approved by Zak

Welcome to the first round of Mirage (http://www.freewebs.com/plantae0/mirage.htm).

General
1. Do not excessively spam in this topic.
2. Dead players may post sparsely, but may not give hints that could affect gameplay in any form.
3. Do not post private messages in the thread.
4. Do not edit your posts.
5. Post all votes in bold or they will not be counted.

Cast
Ace64
Dark-San
Green Lanturn
Heald
Magmar
Mega Horny
Roy Karrde
TheBlueAvenger
Weasel Overlord

Dead
Mega Horny - unknowing
TheBlueAvenger - unknowing
Roy Karrde - unknowing
Weasel Overlord - unknowing
Ace64 - unknowing
Green Lanturn - unknowing
Dark-San - unknowing

Roles
Knowing x2

The illusions of the mind are still deadly to the soul. The current turn is - Knowing Victory.

Magmar
21st May 2006, 12:51 PM
Umm.

*casts a spell! a purple spell!* oogedy-boogedy!

...so do we... vote... or somethin'? Like try to pick out the knowing people by randomly accusing them?

Plantae
21st May 2006, 01:22 PM
That would be the objective, yes.

Magmar
21st May 2006, 01:56 PM
Hey, i like asking these questions in public to clarify rules. Can we go neutral? It's way too early to cast spells and stuff and figure out peoples alliances (or lack thereof).

Magmar
21st May 2006, 01:57 PM
*Edit, I mean it's way too early to know and be able to accuse.

Plantae
21st May 2006, 06:17 PM
Neutral is allowed, though not twice in a row, as it was with all the other variants.

The Blue Avenger
21st May 2006, 06:21 PM
I'm going to go neutral for now.

Ace64
21st May 2006, 06:45 PM
Neutral, I guess.

Dark-San
21st May 2006, 11:16 PM
[b][size=3] *Looks around*

Neutral.

Weasel Overlord
22nd May 2006, 03:11 AM
[color=silver]Neutral for meeee!! *waves hands around as she casts an illusion* whee!

Heald
22nd May 2006, 04:01 AM
Neutral for now.

Magmar
22nd May 2006, 09:30 AM
Neutral! We all know what happened last time I threw a random vote first round ^_^;

Ace64
22nd May 2006, 09:35 AM
Actually, I have a question, and I'll feel really dumb if everyone else knew but me... in the rules, it says "players are encouraged to draw from these example illusions if they are having trouble creating their own."

So my question is basically- We can create our own illusions, right? If one proved to be to over-the-top than the final say lies with you, right?

Magmar
22nd May 2006, 11:31 AM
And can we do similar to other people? Like could I make Ace64 appear to be a Vampire with DD boobs made entirely out of post-it notes?

And could I turn myself into Anthony Rapp? I'd enjoy that... ^_^; XD

Plantae
22nd May 2006, 01:56 PM
As it has been a clear twenty-four hours, we will move forward on to Turn 2 at this time.

You may create your own illusions, yes, and that is really the point of the game: creativity. The final say on how many points an illusion cost and if it is allowable lies with me.

You could make the aforementioned changes to Ace64's figure, Magmar, but such an illusion would have no effect on game-play and would cost no points unless you used it via private message and specified that it did and I accepted it. In this case, however, the point would be lost as no private message given illusion is revealed to any player but its caster unless it is detected. So if someone was looking at Ace64's new "form," then they would think those had always been there.

In fact (let this be clear): I give all of you full permission to throw out illusions like Magmar's example, that is, that have absolutely no effect on game-play and cost no points; just make sure they do not offend anyone. These can be done in the thread, however. Reserve my private message inbox for illusions with an actual game effect, not you turning yourself into Anthony Rapp.

Dark-San
23rd May 2006, 09:42 AM
[b][size=3] It is already very late here (Around 11 pm) and nobody had posted their first vote. And hey, I cannot wait any longer since I have another 5 more hours of sleep and later report back to camp.

Since I cannot post any neutral vote (I already posted one at Turn 1) as well, so I will randomly throw in my first vote on ...

*Rolls dice*

... Mega Horny. Sorry dude, but this is just a random pick.

Ace64
23rd May 2006, 09:56 AM
The problem with this game is that there's no real way to determine knowing from unknowing. Unless you can come up with an illusion that somehow detects it- but I just don't know.

Holding off on voting for now...I'll probably change my mind in a little bit.

Dark-San
23rd May 2006, 10:48 AM
[b][size=3] Yeah, that is the problem. Mirage is one hell of a confusing game. Everyone has their fair chance of putting up an illusion as well as their fair chance to vote.

I'm sticking to my vote.

Weasel Overlord
23rd May 2006, 02:19 PM
[color=silver]Hrrm...Also voting Mega Horny. Too early to say who anyone is, but why not take a stab int' dark?

(ps: come online, Jobes!! *pokes*)

The Blue Avenger
23rd May 2006, 04:35 PM
I'll vote Mega Horny as well.

I also cast an illusion to turn Magmar into a vampire with DD boobs made entirely out of post-it notes.

Heald
23rd May 2006, 05:38 PM
Mega Horny I guess, just because I can't figure out the rules and I want to at least avoid a doom.

Weasel Overlord
23rd May 2006, 06:00 PM
[color=silver]Well, if we're playing the mirage game then I shall cast an illusion on meself. Now I have purple hair, and Thom Yorke is inexplicably attracted to me... O.o

Thats right Jimmies...He's MINE!

...

Green Lanturn
23rd May 2006, 07:05 PM
Well, cant say I understand this game any more than the rest of you guys...but ill vote for Mega Horny just for the heck of it...

~GL

Plantae
23rd May 2006, 07:36 PM
In response to the dilemma of not knowing the knowing: they are discovered in the same way werewolves were discovered in TWG. Namely, in one of several ways:
1. Working in unison
2. Instigating the death of the unknowing
3. Putting up a facade to be unknowing

Or various other telltale things. But the show must go on!

Dead
Mega Horny - unknowing

So begins Turn 3.

And finally, a note on illusions. Contingent illusions (those that are activated only under a certain condition, such as, when a certain player has a majority of the votes) may be used but will cost one point more than the standard illusion and this will not allow for players to go over the three points allotted per turn. If I feel they are being abused this game, they may not be allowed in the next game.

Magmar
24th May 2006, 01:25 AM
I'm sorry I missed this turn! Really, I am! I was out all day at a reunion. I don't think I've gotten a doom since I began playing the...werewolf game o_O;

I'll vote for Roy Karrde. He's been quiet.

Dark-San
24th May 2006, 08:23 AM
[b][size=3] I beg to differ. I'm throwing in a vote to Ace64.

His post before mine sounds very suspicious. He holds off his vote and didn't put any vote. Unless he explains himself, my vote stays.

Ace64
24th May 2006, 09:28 AM
I'd be suspicious too, in your place. But think about it here. Mega Horny was an unknowing- one of the majority. If I'm a knowing, why wouldn't I vote for him? Everyone else was, so there would have been less chance of being suspected. But now, you're suspecting me because I didn't vote? The wrong guy was killed here! Innocent death. The only thing in my previous post was how we were supposed to tell the knowing from the unknowing, that was all. Holding off seemed to be a better choice to using online dice, in my opinion. And I didn't cast a vote later because I had an awards ceremony to go to last night.

Anyways, I'll hold off on retaliatory votes, since it's obvious you don't know much more than me here. Instead, I'll vote for TBA, purely for the reason that he was one of those for Mega Horny, an unknowing. It'll probably earn a retaliatory vote, but it might give somebody a clue.

The Blue Avenger
24th May 2006, 04:33 PM
Screw that, I'm voting for [b]Ace[b] too. I dun wanna die.

The Blue Avenger
24th May 2006, 04:33 PM
Wow, totally messed up a font tag. My apologies.

Heald
24th May 2006, 05:18 PM
Meh. Roy Karrde to even things out I guess.

Green Lanturn
24th May 2006, 06:30 PM
Bah....TheBlueAvenger.

No obvious reason...

~GL

Plantae
24th May 2006, 06:34 PM
Dead
TheBlueAvenger - unknowing

So starts Turn 4.

Magmar
24th May 2006, 07:20 PM
TBA! :( *Heartbroken!* You were my lover... or I was yours or something like that... via illusion, lol.

I guess seeing these wonderful results is convincing enough to re-vote for Roy Karrde.

The Blue Avenger
24th May 2006, 07:32 PM
You all suck. Except for Magmar, who apparently I was having a relationship with... without my knowledge.

...sleep rape! O_O

Magmar
24th May 2006, 07:48 PM
lmao! I saw that in the rules and had to do it. A few others and I joked about possible combinations. Mega Horny and Zcade0 would make a unique couple...

vote stays unchanged for now though.

Plantae
24th May 2006, 08:02 PM
Oh, that is cruel. So cruel, Magmar. In any case, I wanted to make something from the rules clear.

If you invoke a detection power, it will last for the entirety of the round in which it is invoked. That means that if someone casts an illusion in the first hour of Turn 7 and you used "detect all illusions" that you will know this illusion and the one that comes nearly as the Turn is over, or some such.

Green Lanturn
24th May 2006, 09:05 PM
Im just gonna toss a vote out there for someone who i feel might just be a "knowing" ....Magmar....

~GL

Ace64
24th May 2006, 09:58 PM
I agree. He seems to be starting the vote every time..somebody's got to, but what the hell.
Magmar.

Plus, having DD post-tits makes it hard to go out without being stared at....come ON, man..

Heald
25th May 2006, 04:42 AM
I'm gonna stick with Roy Karrde again. The quiet ones are always the suspicious ones.

Weasel Overlord
25th May 2006, 04:45 AM
[color=silver]Well, Im gonna throw out another nicely random vote and go for Ace64. Do you have any evidence that Maggymar is a Knowing? Cos he's voted for Roy Karrde every time, and I believe it was actually you who started the whole vote for TBA, yes? *looks back* Yes, yes it was.

*glares* me vote goes to you; Ace.

*waves hands around illusionly* And now I choose to cast another illusion! ^^ Yes, you've guessed it...it involves Thom Yorke... *is obsessed*

*BANG!* *lands in a newly-acquired trolley* Wheee!! Now I can whizz around the game like Thom does in the Fake Plastic Trees video!! *beams and whizzes* WHEEE!!

Heald
25th May 2006, 05:11 AM
W_O raises a good point...I've been wrong in the past about the quiet ones...I might leave my vote for now.

Ace64
25th May 2006, 08:51 AM
What evidence do you have that proves that I might be a knowing? If you know something about Roy that I don't, please...lemme know. I like secrets. Mega Horny was a 'quiet one' too- because he was away. It's easy to vote off the quiet unknowing ones, because if anyone complains, you can just say, "Whoops! Process of elimination? Sorry about that?"

I know, because I did the same thing last game, as a Wolf. My vote stays.

Dark-San
25th May 2006, 09:14 AM
[b][size=3] I'm sticking with Ace64 giving the reasons on my previous turn.

Magmar
25th May 2006, 09:18 AM
Ace, you're just jealous of my rack. :)

Ace64
25th May 2006, 09:21 AM
*transforms Maggy into a 2 cent hoe* er....the gardening tool.

Yay for play on words.

Magmar
25th May 2006, 09:25 AM
But yeah, I guess I should probably justify why I picked Roy, not just due to inactivity...

See, I'm really not sure as to who the knowing really are, but via underground alliances I have ideas of who they aren't. I have reduced it to three people, and Roy Karrde is one of the three suspects... if Roy is not a Knowing, then we'll know who the two Knowings are and maintain majority vote. Otherwise, it's just no fun killing active players -_-;; I don't know about you guys but I wanna play with illusions some more! ^_^;

*bounces his illusions in ace's face*

Ace64
25th May 2006, 09:35 AM
Well, Roy is busy, so what the hell.

Roy Kaarde. This might suck badly, but meh.

Zcade0
25th May 2006, 05:03 PM
*comes from nearby wizard's tower, even though he isn't playing, he thinks he'll make an illusion for the heck of it*

ooooooooo, tooothpasteeee and cheeeeeessseeeeee, oooooooo *Ace trasformes into a pile of nachos, Magmar turns into girl, and Roy Kaarde gets a Duchy because everyone is voting for him* oooooooo scarrrryyyy bbbuuutterrfliesssss *teleports back into tower, though it is only 2 feet away*

EDIT: I edit this post because I can!! mwahahahahahahahaha!! (above illusion was an example illusion from me just to make tis post relevent, man, I love being able to edit again...

Weasel Overlord
25th May 2006, 05:24 PM
[color=silver]Um, Z? We still can't edit posts...or didn't you read the first page?

You know what, to hell with it! My vote ain't gonna get anywhere. I might as well change and go wit the old waggon! It could do with some Weasel-weight on it! ^^ new vote = Roy Karrde...

*waves illusion wand* Now, who wants to be Thom Yorke?! *raises eyebrow seductively*

Plantae
25th May 2006, 06:03 PM
I will let all of you sort out this one.

Dead
Roy Karrde - ?
Ace64 - ?

All detection is now inert again as Turn 5 begins.

Ace64
25th May 2006, 06:22 PM
Verry interesting...I wonder who cast that one?

In any case, I'm not dead. Since I can't lie and say that I'm not dead, I must be speaking truth. But who would want both Roy and myself to die?Hmmm...

Ace64
25th May 2006, 06:22 PM
Whoops. Sorry for the double post, but Roy is dead. Heh. Forgot he was the majority.

Plantae
25th May 2006, 07:10 PM
This is affirmation that Ace64 is indeed not dead. Roy Karrde is, however, and is an unknowing.

Dark-San
26th May 2006, 05:31 AM
[b][size=3] I'm taking out Ace this turn either by hook or by crook. He convinces me that he is one of the knowings. He had also survived the death fate twice even for me voting for him. Hence he gets my vote.

Ace64
26th May 2006, 09:17 AM
Oh please. If I was a knowing, wouldn't I have more to gain by fooling everyone into thinking I was dead, so I could work illusions behind the scenes? At the very least, it would get you off of my back and stop you from throwing supposed 'evidence' from turn 1. Hesitation isn't evidence.

Unless...you cast such an illusion on me this turn, and were ready to accuse me either way. If I didn't dispel the death illusion, you would detect it, and point out how suspicious it would be that I would try to take myself out of the game.Or maybe I'm being too imaginative...Regardless, I did not have the majority both times you voted for me, so I didn't 'survive.' One was a tie, the other I was in the minority.

Getting tired of the suspicion... so I'll throw one back at you, Dark-San.

Magmar
26th May 2006, 11:07 AM
This is all very interesting. Ace appeared to die... but is alive.

I'm going to vote for Ace64 until someone can convince me that he is NOT Knowing.

Zcade0
26th May 2006, 04:33 PM
*stick head out of wizard tower window*

I can to edit posts, I'm not playing *insert long incantation* there, Roy Karrde came back to life in the wizard's tower to help me kill the stupid imps up here, he's still dead to u people though! so HAHA! btw, can I host next round? I wana try out my new game, it's rules are finished. :)

Magmar
26th May 2006, 05:07 PM
Zcade, couldn't you... PM Plantae, or somethin'

Weasel Overlord
26th May 2006, 05:13 PM
[color=silver] Crapnabit! That'll teach me to go with bandwaggons...

And yet, I do not learn. *sigh* Back to my original vote it is then! ^^ Ace, I wa suspicious before, I am even more so now... Beware of the unknown, they say... And I have no bloody idea what just happened ^^;;

*waves illusiony-wand-of-woe* Magmar! You are now Thom Yorke! *beams and hugs* WHEE!! By the way, this gets rid of your large chest, my dear... now you can be a manly man! *grins pervertedly* A short manly man, but still...

Heald
26th May 2006, 06:09 PM
I don't really see very much evidence against Ace, he just seems to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time, so I'm going to vote for Weasel Overlord, even though this is going to make no difference in the actual vote.

Magmar
26th May 2006, 06:56 PM
Thanks, Kirsten! ^_^ I was getting tired of those being on my own body.... -_-

Green Lanturn
26th May 2006, 10:18 PM
Well, I can honestly say this is the first game where ive been somewhat unclear about the main culprits...being dragged both this way and that...

So rather than decide, and to avoid a doom vote, I will choose to remain Neutral just to see how things play out...


~GL

Plantae
27th May 2006, 12:56 PM
It plays out like this.

Dead
Weasel Overlord - unknowing

Then Turn 6 comes after that.

Dark-San
27th May 2006, 01:06 PM
[b][size=3] Something smells fishy here and I bet it is Ace. I'm sticking with Ace for Turn 6 for the third straight time.

Ace64
27th May 2006, 04:24 PM
Actually, I think I smell pretty good. Sorry about that, Weasel.

Dark-San. Things are clearing up.

Magmar
27th May 2006, 10:50 PM
*poke* Weasel?

O_O;

Someone apparently betrayed their alliance -_-; and it was probably you, Ace.

Heald
28th May 2006, 05:43 AM
Oops, how the hell did that happen, I was the only person to vote for her. Well, I'm pretty sure that Ace isn't actually a Knowing and so I'm going to go for Dark-San.

Dark-San
28th May 2006, 05:48 AM
[b][size=3] What makes you think of that way? Ace is indeed one of them.

Anyway what happen earlier in the last round?

According to the last turn's vote:

2 - Ace
1 - Weasel
1 - Me

Why did Weasel die instead of Ace? I don't get it.

Weasel Overlord
28th May 2006, 05:55 AM
[color=silver]*yells from heaven* I'm a girl, dammnit!! Haven't we had this debate before?

What the hell happened!? Oh well...Now I can enjoy heaven with Thom! ^^ *leaps around on a cloud to the lovely strains of Radiohead*

Heald
28th May 2006, 06:00 AM
Shit, I just made two cardinal sins, mistook WO's gender again for the first time in oodles and then in my panic I editted my post accordingly before realising it's not kosher...

Sorry, but I didn't change my vote, it's still Dark-San.

Dark-San
28th May 2006, 06:17 AM
[b][size=3] I'm pretty cool with it. :biggrin:

You will commit your third sin by voting me out unless you are the knowing yourself, which I suppose not. >.<" Hah, whatever. Either way if you are one of us, the unknowings, remember not to let Ace and Green Lanturn get away.

Ace64
28th May 2006, 06:22 AM
That's pretty funny. Now GL's an unknowing too? Cool. He can't vote without actually posting, so I kind of doubt it.

Dark-San, you're gone this time (I hope!). And Maggy...pretty tricky of you to fool me with the cluelessness a while back(you were unknowing, hah), but it won't help in the end.

Heh..."if you get one of us, the unknowings..."that's good.

Heald
28th May 2006, 06:24 AM
It isn't that I think you're a knowing Dark-San, but rather I'm pretty sure Ace isn't a knowing, and so I'm just levelling the playing field. Nothing personal.

Plantae
28th May 2006, 07:41 AM
I apologize for over-extending this turn.

Dead
Ace64 - unknowing

It is now Turn 7.

Dooms
Magmar - 1
Green Lanturn - 1

Heald: I trust you will not edit your post again, so no harm done.

Heald
28th May 2006, 07:57 AM
You get dooms for that? Ah damn! Well looks like I was right about Ace, and since Dark-San was so eager to vote him off, I'm going to vote for Dark-San again.

Plantae
28th May 2006, 08:33 AM
No, you do not get dooms for that. I must apologize but I missed your name in one of the earlier turns; it has been fixed.

Dark-San
28th May 2006, 08:44 AM
[b][size=3] I did screwed up on my wild guess but it would not work if you vote against me. If I or the other unknowing died, the unknowing will lose this one and the knowing's win would be reassured.

Hence I am not giving up this round and will vote Green Lanturn.

Magmar
28th May 2006, 09:01 AM
I'm going to vote for Green Lanturn this time around.

Plantae, why do I have a doom and Green Lanturn doesn't?

Plantae
28th May 2006, 09:07 AM
It could have something to do with the fact that I have selective blindness or am similarly inattentive and incapable of counting. I have altered the dooms (again) accordingly.

Heald
28th May 2006, 09:17 AM
I'm changing my vote to Green Lanturn, as behind-the-scenes discussions have convinced me he is in fact the other Knowing.

Green Lanturn
28th May 2006, 10:29 AM
All I can say is that I am not an unknowing, and whatever behind the scenes conversations have taken place will in the end doom the unknowing who was convinced...

Once I am gone, the knowings win, which tells me ive been played by magmar from the beggining...

Too bad i couldnt come and help Ace out be4 it happened...

And tell me Heald, if you were so incredibly convinced, why did Dark-san point out both Ace and Me in league?

And Ace turned out to be unknowing...

I shall vote for Dark-san in hopes that whomever was "convinced" will come to your senses be4 it is too late and the knwoings winthis game...

~GL

Magmar
28th May 2006, 10:41 AM
All I can say is that I am not an unknowing


There you go.

Green Lanturn
28th May 2006, 07:31 PM
)o.O lol, whoops....but hey, now i know who is stressing my little screw-up,lol...

Should heald not choose to change his mind, im changing my vote to Magmar...

God lee, what the hell was i thinking when i typed that, either that i was not a knowing, or that i am an unknowing, lol... But seriously, change of vote to Magmar...i suppose either way the games over, if heald stays as is, the knowings win, if he doesnt, then it becomes a tie, and one person will die, preferably the knowing...so the unknowing win...but as i said, if heald wants an uknowing victory, change your vote, even if its still not guarenteed that the unknowings willwin, what honestly do you have to lose?

~GL

Zcade0
28th May 2006, 10:41 PM
lol, you really screwed that one up GL. :biggrin:

Green Lanturn
28th May 2006, 10:51 PM
Yeah well, at least i can say one thing in my defense....IM NOT MEGA-HORNY, i dont commit suicide...but then again, im also not a "knowing"...

Heh, if heald doesnt change his vote, its a knowing victory and we move on to round 2 then...


The only thing i can say came out of my screw-up of words is that magmar revealed himself at last, too little too late i guess though...

I doubt Heald will get on in time.....Knowings Victory....ill call it now...


~GL

Plantae
29th May 2006, 07:26 AM
The conclusion.

Dead
Green Lanturn - unknowing
Dark-San - unknowing (outnumbered)

That means our victors are:

Winners
Magmar - knowing
Heald - knowing

I have yet to decide when next round will begin.

Heald
29th May 2006, 07:33 AM
Heh, fooled you all. Well, that was pretty fun, I guess.

Magmar
29th May 2006, 07:51 AM
Sorry Meng and Kirsten :( but I didn't wanna die :P

Heald
29th May 2006, 08:24 AM
I actually feel kinda bad, since Dark-San is a friend and so I had to lie to him, and then seeing GL trying to get me to change my vote because he was under the impression I was an Unknowing (probably thanks to Ace64). Anyway, yeah, good game.

Magmar
29th May 2006, 05:56 PM
yeah I hated lying to Meng and Kirsten, but it took some coaxing to convince Ruben after a little while.

Zcade, if you wanna play, then play, but if not then don't post? it was annoying o.O;

Green Lanturn
29th May 2006, 06:47 PM
Heh, well, good games....Ill admit that little blurp where i mixed two phrases wasnt at all helping my condition...(i typed that 5 minutes be4 ihad to leave for work, i was in a hurry :)....but i suppose Ace did play a big part in conusing me, as he made it appear as if there were 2 staright out sides....Magmar and Dark-San,and then Heald as well...

Nicely played is all i can say....

Oh well, Round 2 will bring even more frustration i suppose...heh, and i might actually use some Illusions...

~GL

Magmar
29th May 2006, 07:55 PM
I have stolen all peoples' remaining points and turned Zcade0 and Mega Horny into Sailor Uranus and Sailor Neptune.

Nice skirts guys!

Ace64
29th May 2006, 08:21 PM
Damn...who could have foreseen that one??I had Magmar marked, but Heald...? Good one, man. Well done.

Sorry GL. Because Heald didn't vote for me, I became convinced that Dark-San was the 'wolf' here, and not Heald. Sadly, even if I knew the truth, I don't think I would've been able to change Dark's mind...he was pretty fixated on me.

Heald
30th May 2006, 05:00 AM
Dark-San became a sheep in wolf's clothing, if you will.

Dark-San
30th May 2006, 08:39 AM
[b][size=3] Yeah, it looks like the unknowing lost. >.<"

Way to go, bros. Well I did not expected the 'allies' that I had communicate with turn out to be the 'enemies'. I screwed up pretty much for this round for voting out both Ace and Green Lanturn. Well, either way good game and good luck to whoever taking over me in the next game.

Plantae, kindly remove me for the next game since I would out of the country and would have no internet access. Put me in the third game instead. Thanks.

Plantae
31st May 2006, 05:32 PM
I will kindly do so. I am not quite sure when next game will start, though I do suspect it might be some time this weekend. I need to figure out exactly how many players we have first. I apologize for the delay.

Plantae
1st June 2006, 07:04 AM
Starting now- see Carlene is here- because otherwise it will not be had before my vacation.