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Metallixs Girl
5th July 2006, 11:58 PM
WASHINGTON - When "say," "they" and "weigh" rhyme, but "bomb," "comb" and "tomb" don't, wuudn't it maek mor sens to spel wurdz the wae thae sound? ADVERTISEMENT




Those in favor of simplified spelling say children would learn faster and illiteracy rates would drop. Opponents say a new system would make spelling even more confusing.

Eether wae, the consept has yet to capcher th publix imajinaeshun.

It's been 100 years since Andrew Carnegie helped create the Simplified Spelling Board to promote a retooling of written English and President Theodore Roosevelt tried to force the government to use simplified spelling in its publications. But advocates aren't giving up.

They even picket the national spelling bee finals, held every year in Washington, costumed as bumble bees and hoisting signs that say "Enuf is enuf but enough is too much" or "I'm thru with through."

Thae sae th bee selebraets th ability of a fue stoodents to master a dificult sistem that stumps meny utherz hoo cuud do just as wel if speling were simpler.

"It's a very difficult thing to get something accepted like this," says Alan Mole, president of the American Literacy Council, which favors an end to "illogical spelling." The group says English has 42 sounds spelled in a bewildering 400 ways.

Americans doen't aulwaez go for whut's eezy — witnes th faeluer of th metric sistem to cach on. But propoenents of simpler speling noet that a smatering of aulterd spelingz hav maed th leep into evrydae ues.

Doughnut also is donut; colour, honour and labour long ago lost the British "u" and the similarly derived theatre and centre have been replaced by the easier-to-sound-out theater and center.

"The kinds of progress that we're seeing are that someone will spell night 'nite' and someone will spell through 'thru,'" Mole said. "We try to show where these spellings are used and to show dictionary makers that they are used so they will include them as alternate spellings."

"Great changes have been made in the past. Systems can change," a hopeful Mole said.

Lurning English reqierz roet memory rather than lojic, he sed.

In languages with phonetically spelled words, like German or Spanish, children learn to spell in weeks instead of months or years as is sometimes the case with English, Mole said.

But education professor Donald Bear said to simplify spelling would probably make it more difficult because words get meaning from their prefixes, suffixes and roots.

"Students come to understand how meaning is preserved in the way words are spelled," said Bear, director of the E.L. Cord Foundation Center for Learning and Literacy at the University of Nevada, Reno.

Th cuntry's larjest teecherz uennyon, wuns a suporter, aulso objects.

Michael Marks, a member of the National Education Association's executive committee, said learning would be disrupted if children had to switch to a different spelling system. "It may be more trouble than it's worth," said Marks, a debate and theater teacher at Hattiesburg High School in Mississippi.

E-mail and text messages are exerting a similar tug on the language, sharing some elements with the simplified spelling movement while differing in other ways. Electronic communications stress shortcuts like "u" more than phonetics. Simplified spelling is not always shorter than regular spelling — sistem instead of system, hoep instead of hope.

Carnegie tried to moov thingz along in 1906 when he helpt establish and fund th speling bord. He aulso uezd simplified speling in his correspondens, and askt enywun hoo reported to him to do the saem.

A filanthropist, he becaem pashunet about th ishoo after speeking with Melvil Dewey, a speling reform activist and Dewey Desimal sistem inventor hoo simplified his furst naem bi droping "le" frum Melville.

Roosevelt tried to get the government to adopt simpler spellings for 300 words but Congress blocked him. He used simple spellings in all White House memos, pressing forward his effort to "make our spelling a little less foolish and fantastic."

The Chicago Tribune aulso got into th act, uezing simpler spelingz in th nuezpaeper for about 40 years, ending in 1975. Plae-riet George Bernard Shaw, hoo roet moest of his mateerial in shorthand, left muny in his wil for th development of a nue English alfabet.

Carnegie, Dewey, Roosevelt and Shaw's work followed attempts by Benjamin Franklin, Daniel Webster and Mark Twain to advance simpler spelling. Twain lobbied The Associated Press at its 1906 annual meeting to "adopt and use our simplified forms and spread them to the ends of the earth." AP declined.

But for aul th hi-proefiel and skolarly eforts, the iedeea of funy-luuking but simpler spelingz didn't captivaet the masez then — or now.

"I think that the average person simply did not see this as a needed change or a necessary change or something that was ... going to change their lives for the better," said Marilyn Cocchiola Holt, manager of the Pennsylvania department of the Carnegie Library of Pittsburgh.

Carnegie, hoo embraest teknolojy, died in 1919, wel befor sel foenz. Had he livd, he probably wuud hav bin pleezd to no that milyonz of peepl send text and instant mesejez evry dae uezing thair oen formz of simplified speling: "Hav a gr8 day!"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060705/ap_on_re_us/simpl_wurdz;_ylt=AmyxhVjvg30WqsoCemkCP55G2ocA;_ylu =X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA

What do y'all think about THIS? It's too weird for me, seems like they've been hanging in an online chatroom too long, I dunno...:/

Oh yeah, and English and spelling were my favorite subjects in school, so this would actually be an incredible insult. :(

RedStarWarrior
6th July 2006, 12:19 AM
They have been trying to do this forever, as shown in the article, with no luck.

To be honest, it is a good idea as it would simplify English in the long run and make it easier for people from other countries to learn to read and write it, but tradition and culture will not allow it to happen.

.hacker
6th July 2006, 01:16 AM
IMO, probably one of the biggest problems with simplifying English is that everything we write is still in "complex" English. For this generation, it probably wouldn't be all that difficult to adjust, but if our future generations wanted to read old books and articles in "complex" English, they would have to learn that as well. So, we don't accomplish much in the long run. The only way around that would be to "translate" everything into "simple" English.

Could you imagine trying to simplify the volumes of law and regulation? :rolleyes:

Heald
6th July 2006, 06:46 AM
These people really are stupid. Most Americans' pronunciation is lousy at best. Anyone who pronounces 'through' as 'thru' really needs a smack round the face. It's like the retards who say that the sounds 'th', 'gh' and 'ph' as in 'through', 'enough' and 'phone' respectively sound like 'f' when in actual fact they don't, thus they're complete idiots.

Here's an idea for these asshats - try being literate before setting up a Literacy Council and in fact learn to speak our language properly or otherwise stop raping it with your Americanisms.

Lady Vulpix
6th July 2006, 06:54 AM
I've seen people suggest the same thing about Spanish, and Spanish spelling is a lot simpler than English spelling. It soon turned into a joke. I'm sure this will too, don't worry.

RedStarWarrior
6th July 2006, 08:12 AM
Heald, first off, this isn't Recieved Standard we are talking about. We are talking about American English, which is a seperate dialect. Therefore, you have no say in how we handle our language. Remember, we kicked GB's ass in the Revolutionary War so we get to make big boy decisions now. If we want to be on the path to self-destruction, it's our choice.

Heald
6th July 2006, 09:04 AM
Correction : you, the French, the Dutch, the Spanish and the Natives merely got lucky that more worthy adversaries were pissing us off more so we had to go and massacre them instead.

And also, because GB is lazy, most of our media comes from the USA, plus most media broadcast in English around the globe is American. Therefore if you start making drastic changes to English, many people will be under the impression that your incorrect spellings and pronunciations are the actual ways of saying them. The effect of your country's raping of our language is terrible.

RedStarWarrior
6th July 2006, 10:48 AM
Well, Heald, seeing as how we could kick your ass again, you will have to just suck it up.

I do completely concur that simplified spelling looks completely fucked up, though.

Heald
6th July 2006, 11:01 AM
Ah, but America going to war against the UK would not conform with any of the American laws of going to war, which are:

1) The British must fight with us (e.g. against Germany)
2) The enemy's weapons must mainly consist of pointy sticks (e.g. against Vietnam)
3) The country we invade must have ample oil reserves (e.g. against Iraq)

Metallixs Girl
6th July 2006, 11:32 AM
Heald, I made this topic about Spelling, not about flaming my country, OR my family. (My grandmother is half Cherokee, and my great grandfather was too), so don't even say anything mean about that in my thread. Your first post was NOTHING but flame bait. If you hate us so much, take it to another thread please. :(

Heald
6th July 2006, 11:43 AM
Actually my first post was about how simplified spelling is stupid since the people who want to simplify the words are only doing it because they're idiots and can't pronounce or spell the words they want to change.

Also, I didn't mean to flame your family, I was using that particular tribe as an example of the (supposed) atrocities the whites did when they rampaged across the states. I'll change it if it makes you feel any better.

Besides, I attack other countries such as France, Israel, hell, even the UK, but you only have beef when I start knocking the States? That is discrimination.

Either constructively counter my points or don't whine about it.

Metallixs Girl
6th July 2006, 12:08 PM
Nah, I only replied like that because how you used "Cherokee" and "rape" in the same sentence, that's what bothered me, but go ahead and keep talking about America and stuff, but whatever may have happened to them, we can't do anything about, and a lot of us are products of whatever went on but I love my family and don't want that in my thread, especially from a British person no less...(no offense, you know what I mean...^^)

Thanks for changing it. ^^

Heald
6th July 2006, 12:16 PM
Hell, I'm Scottish, my family were getting invaded by the English while yours were.

RedStarWarrior
6th July 2006, 12:33 PM
LOL...trust me, Heald's main concerns were related to the discussion at hand. Perhaps we should talk about how America bastardized English another time, Heald. :)

Heald
6th July 2006, 12:48 PM
Yeah, I never meant to be offensive to any one person, I try to be equally offensive to everyone :)

Metallixs Girl
6th July 2006, 01:13 PM
Ohh, lol, I thought I read once that you lived in England, so I assumed you were English...^_^ But as I said, y'all can talk about America and how it treats the English language, all I'm requesting is not to talk about white people raping Cherokees in my thread. ^^

And no hard feelings, I know you had no idea, I guess that's my online pet peeve, heh. :) That and South-bashing...^^

But back on topic: You say you pronounce Through and Phone differently? How do you say them... Throw and Phoon? Just a guess...

Heald
6th July 2006, 01:30 PM
No, I was saying how some people think that the 'ph' and 'th' are the same as 'f', hence people saying stuff like fone and fanks instead of phone and thanks. They sound alike, but they're not exactly the same, just as j and g sound the same but aren't.

Crazy
6th July 2006, 02:27 PM
A lot of the words they used "simple spelling" for already made perfect sense. They sound like idiots to me, but then again, I can see some benefit. Maybe they could change some things, but to change the entire system is pure idiocy and it probably won't happen. Anyone know why we have silent letters? I would love an explanation. Personally, I think they're just there to piss us off, but I could be wrong. Are they used to avoid having repeat spellings? That's the only logical explanation that comes to mind.

Metallixs Girl
6th July 2006, 02:39 PM
No, I was saying how some people think that the 'ph' and 'th' are the same as 'f', hence people saying stuff like fone and fanks instead of phone and thanks. They sound alike, but they're not exactly the same, just as j and g sound the same but aren't.


Ohh I see... Actually, I could swear that I hear English people on TV shows do that. Maybe it's the accent, but I've heard Rose on "Doctor Who" say "Finks" and "Fing" instead of "Thinks" and "Thing" and she sounded kinda like a baby... I don't hear that around here though...

Heald
6th July 2006, 02:41 PM
Oh yeah, Billie Piper, she's a pleb.

Jeff
6th July 2006, 04:25 PM
Those spellings look like a 4-year-old making thier first attempt at writing. Seriously, they even spell the word 'the' as 'th' without a vowel, how idiotic. I was pretty amused at how they spelled 'cuntry' though (or is that thow?).

Metallixs Girl
6th July 2006, 05:03 PM
Oh yeah, Billie Piper, she's a pleb.


What's a pleb? I like her as Rose, she's just the first person I thought of from your post, hehe.

-/Deathborn/-
6th July 2006, 07:32 PM
Urge to destroy the universe rising...

...exponentially.

Within a couple years of this imposed change, I will destroy the universe. Somehow.
This "simple English" is junk. That's for the 10-year old's who think that the internet gives them the right to butcher the language. I try to at least spell 99.99% of my words correctly. If I'm in a hurry, I'll paraphrase. Not simplify. Paraphrase. Make my statements short and to the point. It's a habit of mine-if I type in "simplified" I instinctively retype into "complex" English.

If they do even try to pass this, I'm moving to Russia. Get a mansion in Siberia where I can't be bothered...

SmearGal
6th July 2006, 07:48 PM
Four words: 1984 by George Orwell.

In all honesty, I nearly started crying as I read that article.. maybe it's the fact that we just read 1984 so everything is still all fresh in my mind. Just check out this completely unconcealed Newspeak.

Simple spelling is doubleplusgood.

Though I also agree, you want simplified English? Go grab a handful of 14-year-old girls off of MySpace and you'll get some simplified English.. ("o wow ur hott")

Chatspeak is the epitome of lazy. (I think I'm starting to ramble off to a different subject, must contain urge to beat people over the head..)

~Smear

Heald
7th July 2006, 10:45 AM
Pleb in the context I used meaning one who is common; unproper, hence her use of sounds such as 'fings'.

Bison Woes
7th July 2006, 10:59 AM
Just saw this on a LJ community XD Unfortunately, I couldn't understand several of the supposed 'simplified words.' I can understand my brother's handwriting better than this (and his sucks).

The problem people from the LJ community picked up on was the original meaning of words would be lost. Latin, French, Spanish, and other based words would be lost from their original beginning. English really is just several langauges shoved together to form a new one. Or, like this icon says from LJ (not mine):

http://www.livejournal.com/userpic/40382040/205534

Even though people already have new, creative ways to spell names out, what would happen to names? Would we have to chnage them in order to fit in with this spelling if it ever came to be? Non-Americanized names would be put to the chopping block (like Dierdre, Tsu, and Jean (male) for example).

Dialects also come to mind. How would y'all be spelled? Or fixinto? Or bird? Too many words...

Heald
7th July 2006, 11:38 AM
^ - That image is true in some part, but if you look at other languages, they have plenty of English words in their midst, especially modern words (e.g. in French, le Internet, le computer). By the way, I don't care if I got the genders wrong, anyone who thinks words need genders ought to be gassed.

Metallixs Girl
7th July 2006, 12:21 PM
This would just be catering to the less intellegent kids, just like my elementary school principal did. We had the A, B, and C classes and were placed in class depending on our CAT test scores and given work accordingly. Then this Moron took over and decided that having that system wasn't PC and he figured it made him look bad (what a sissy and everyone knows he's a crook anyway but he's somehow still on the schoolboard) so he mixes everyone up and forces everyone to learn what the C kids were learning when I was in the third grade. I had been in the A class.

Yeah it just reminded me of that, so I deffinately hate this. :mad:

RedStarWarrior
7th July 2006, 02:06 PM
English is not just parts of other languages, it actually has its own roots as a Germanic language. Over time, it would absorb words of other languages to expand its vocabulary, but it is in no way completely composed of such.

Magmar
7th July 2006, 03:37 PM
"a hopeful Mole said" I like that.

And malocchio on the person who invented this simplified spelling.

Crystal Mew
9th July 2006, 06:39 PM
that hurt my eyes to read that article. this guy from work (who is almost 18) spells like that, and I get so annoyed because he can't spell BASIC words that I learned how to spell in ...the 1st grade??

he spells sure like "sher" I mean...come on! he spells words how they sound, and it such a pain to figure out what he means.

...I doubt this would go through anyway....but if it did.... :( I would cry.

Arnen
9th July 2006, 09:01 PM
God... if you can't even learn how to use your own language.. *growls* Stupid people >_> There's a big difference between changing "re" to "er" and changing an entire freaking written language. -_-

Also, halfway through reading this aloud over the phone to my friend, she nearly broke down crying. And she hardly EVER cries about ANYTHING.

Magmar
10th July 2006, 07:20 AM
As a copy editor, I can sincerely say that if you're so inept at learning one language that you need to spell like a complete moron, then go ahead. There are people like me who are paid to correct your awful spelling. :)

Mr.Pokemon
10th July 2006, 11:33 AM
Whoa, this is really stupid...




God... if you can't even learn how to use your own language.. *growls* Stupid people >_> There's a big difference between changing "re" to "er" and changing an entire freaking written language. -_-

Also, halfway through reading this aloud over the phone to my friend, she nearly broke down crying. And she hardly EVER cries about ANYTHING.


Funny you should mention "re" and "er". The TV in my family room says "RCA Home Theatre". Whem I was in fourth grade, I spelled it liked that on a spelling test. It ended up being the only word I missed. When I went to ask her about, she said it is spelled "theater", not anything else. I told her how it was written on the TV and she just shrugged if off, saying I watch too much TV and sometimes misspellings happen in life. :mad: :mad: :mad:

To this day I still hate that woman. I heard she was asked to resign a few years ago, I can't imagine why...

As for America English, I predict it will soon dissappear, simply because there is no room for it in Estados Unidos.

Arnen
10th July 2006, 02:52 PM
Funny you should mention "re" and "er". The TV in my family room says "RCA Home Theatre". Whem I was in fourth grade, I spelled it liked that on a spelling test. It ended up being the only word I missed. When I went to ask her about, she said it is spelled "theater", not anything else. I told her how it was written on the TV and she just shrugged if off, saying I watch too much TV and sometimes misspellings happen in life. :mad: :mad: :mad:

Something simillar happened to me, in sixth grade I think. I spelled "specter" as "spectre" on a spelling test and had to ask the teacher not to count it as wrong. Fortunately, she just kind of nodded and fixed my score. :)

SmearGal
11th July 2006, 07:03 PM
Something simillar happened to me, in sixth grade I think. I spelled "specter" as "spectre" on a spelling test and had to ask the teacher not to count it as wrong. Fortunately, she just kind of nodded and fixed my score. :)

And here I was thinking it was 'spectre'. I suppose now that I see it right next to 'specter' it looks wrong. xD

When I was little I spelled theater like theatre.. But then the teachers stamped that out of me. Only now I say, "movie theater" and "theatre troupe"

When I was in .. second grade or so, I think, I got put in time out for arguing that the alphabet went 'double-you', X, Y, Z, and the teacher was like, "No, it's 'wubble-you', X, Y, Z." Retarded woman..

~Smear