WFG? FPD? WTF!!!

[Everoy]

Okay, so I checked out Serebii and found out that the rumor going around is that the new starter trio will be Fighting, Psychic, and Dark, rather than the traditional Water, Fire, and Grass.

WTF.

I want to shout BS. But then I looked at Gamefaqs and they were favoring FPD heavily. Thank goodness a few sensible people stepped in and said "Are you all nuts? Psychic doesn't even affect Dark. It doesn't work." So the FPD fanboys said, "Well, then Nintendo will change that to Psychic being not very effective against Dark!" But this whole time, I'm like, GAAAAH, I hate Fighting and Psychic, FPD WILL FAIL AT LIFE.

Anyway... Then people were saying, 'OMFG! Lucario and Dorapion will be starters! It all works out with FPD!"

That's when I killed myself.


Anyway, how legitimate do you think FPD is? I think it sucks and all that crap, but what about you? Huh? Huh?h

[Poryhedron]

There are legitimate RPS (Rock/Paper/Scissors) combos other than Grass/Fire/Water. Fighting/Psychic/Dark is not one of them, however, because Dark is clearly preferable for the reason you listed. A more legitimate RPS combo would be Fighting, Rock, and Electric/Flying. Why Electric/Flying? Because any other Type1 except Dragon would unbalance the RPS combo, and Dragon-types should not be available so early in the game.

Actually, come to think of it, Nintendo doesn't seem to mind making their RPSs a teensy bit unbalanced, because they unbalanced the Hoenn starters when they made Swampert Water/Ground. That gives it a greater disadvantage against Sceptile.

[Everoy]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind a new triplet, but it sould be one that makes some sense.

[The Blue Avenger]

I think it's fine. I mean, so Psychic can't affect Dark. There will be ways that the Psychic starter will compensate for that; maybe it'll get a second type. And like Poryhedron pointed out, Swampert is Water/Ground, giving it a difficult time against Sceptile, and Charizard is Fire/Flying, making it severely overpower Vensaur.

It's not like the Psychic Pokemon will only learn Psychic moves.

[Heald]

Why does it have to be Rock Paper Scissors? Just for that whole rival thing? Psssssh. Just put in 3 random pokes and get over it.

[mr_pikachu]

Why does it have to be Rock Paper Scissors? Just for that whole rival thing? Psssssh. Just put in 3 random pokes and get over it.

PPM. Pikachu, Plusle, and Minun.

Yay.

But seriously, I don't see that working very well, unless there was a second type thrown in there. It just wouldn't make sense. Besides, all the other "unbalancing" trios have become unbalanced late enough in the game for you to legitimately handle it. By the time you're fighting a Charizard with a Venusaur, you have a little more than just your Venusaur to fight with!

You know what could be fun? Rock, Flying, Fighting. That could actually be interesting, methinks. Yeah, it'd be nothing but Physical bashing... but still! I'd like that deviation from the old Special attack trios.

[Everoy]

I wouldn't hate RFF, but I'd definitely dislike it.

[rinku]

*sigh*

In terms of any inital rival battle, all that is needed is that the ATTACKS are somewhat balanced.

1st Encounter: Everyone's using something like Pound or Scratch anyway. Type has no meaning.

2nd Encounter: Everyone has a weak elemental power like Absorb or Ember. You usually have some sort of stat changing attack to help you, plus the advantage of being higher level. Usually the rival has not levelled enough to have their own elemental attack. Do you attack your rival's Squirtle with Ember? No. You use Scratch.

3rd encounter onwards: You have other pokémon and are not expected to go 1-1 with the starters.

It will NOT matter if the starting trio includes an immunity.

[Everoy]

Wow, I never thought of it that way...

[Jeff]

I told my brother about it and the one thing we were upset about was that this would break our tradition of me always picking the water starter and him always picking the fire one.

What I found interesting was that special/physicalness would be determined per attack rather than per type. This changes things like for example, the elemental punches will become physical, so maybe people will actually use them on Hitmonchan. That's just one example, there are other possibillities, especially when considering commonly used moves that may change like Shadow Ball (currently physical).

[rinku]

Yes, I'm looking forward to that change. It's a "soft" one - won't affect trading between versions. Should empower Shadow Punch over Shadow Ball nicely vs the Psychic types.

It does mean that you won't be able to battle between versions - both players would have to have DS's with Diamond and/or Pearl in them. I'm guessing that version trading will be done without linking - you put the GBA cart and the DS cart in the same DS console to do it. That would have the advantage of simplicity and potential speed. Hopefully you will be able to do bulk transfers, like you can do on Box.

[Hatake Kakashi]

There are legitimate RPS (Rock/Paper/Scissors) combos other than Grass/Fire/Water. Fighting/Psychic/Dark is not one of them, however, because Dark is clearly preferable for the reason you listed. A more legitimate RPS combo would be Fighting, Rock, and Electric/Flying. Why Electric/Flying? Because any other Type1 except Dragon would unbalance the RPS combo, and Dragon-types should not be available so early in the game.

Actually, come to think of it, Nintendo doesn't seem to mind making their RPSs a teensy bit unbalanced, because they unbalanced the Hoenn starters when they made Swampert Water/Ground. That gives it a greater disadvantage against Sceptile.


Wait, why is Electric involved at all? Electric is totally indifferent towards Rock. Flying would be fine.

[Poryhedron]

Wait, why is Electric involved at all? Electric is totally indifferent towards Rock. Flying would be fine.
It's involved because it's totally indifferent. You see, "Flying" isn't fine because there's no such thing as a pure Flying-type. That's one of the rules of the game. And the default Flying-type, Normal/Flying, is not okay because it's not resistant to Fighting. It has to be SomeOtherType/Flying, and Electric/Flying and Dragon/Flying are the only ones that work.

[Zak]

At first I didn't want to believe this, and I even didn't. But seeing as this is coming from the same source which said Roselia would have an evolution about a week before it was revealed to in fact have one, this is pretty likely, unfortunately.


While FPD doesn't exactly balance the Rock/Paper/Scissors thing (where they're all 1/2 damage in reverse as well), only three other combos do that. One is Flying/Fighting/Rock, and there's no way in hell a starter will ever be Flying. While it's an element, it seems more like a sub-type so far since it seems like it always HAS to share a type and they just gotta put that normal element on there if they can't think of anything.

Fire/Rock/Steel and Grass/Poison/Ground would have been interesting, except for the fact that they use one of the original three.

Problem is, if they keep the same type effects, most are obviously gonna choose Dark. They could always change that, but that'd be a pretty big step.

[Chris 2.1]

At least theyre changing the formula. I have to admit grass water fire is effective, and the starters are usually cool, but they're doing something different and I admire that. I mean generally the starters have really similar moves, too, it makes it kinda bland (this changed a bit in RS thanks to Combusken and Marshtomp but my point stands)

[Jeff]

Hmm, there seems to be confilicting reports over this. On one hand it seems the starters will be a grass beetle, a fire monkey, and a water penguin according to a Japanese blog post. Also Serebii said the names which would agree with the grass and fire ones are pretty much confimed, as they will be appearing on DP-related merchandise. Now more recently a rather official-looking image has surfaced of a fighting kangaroo, a psychic triceratops, and a dark cat.

I'm beginning to wonder now, and this seems like a stretch... but what if all six were official. That would be really interesting. Think about it, with players all around the world being able to connect to each other, just three starters seems like too few, it would be almost too easy to get all of them. With six starters it would make it a bit more of a challenge to find someone who started with the pokemon you want. Naturally though this becomes moot if you have both versions, but it would still be interesting and will add variety to see six different starters. But yeah, it still seems like a stretch though.

[The Blue Avenger]

Actually, all six are fake. The respective creators of the pics came out and admitted it.

It is an interesting idea, however, and one that I would not be opposed to. If they made it so that all six starters were in a circle, type-wise, the like three starters from the other game... well, that would be really cool.

[Saffire Persian]

Actually, all six are fake. The respective creators of the pics came out and admitted it.

That sucks. I'd be overjoyed for a cat starter. XD

Seriously, they should to a dog/cat/bird trio of some type. *shot*

Anyways, I really don't mind the DPF thing, really, true or not.

[Razola]

Um, Fighting/Psychic/Dark makes plenty of sense.

Who cares if Dark is immune Psychic? Chances are your starter Psychic will be relying on Tackle or something for damage anyhow. After that, you shouldn't be fighting your rival's starter with your starter.

[Heald]

After that, you shouldn't be fighting your rival's starter with your starter.You have to do it for kicks. Well, in Red/Blue at least. Your rival will always send his fully evolved starter out last - that's your cue to send out your starter and beat some serious ass. Type advantage is no excuse for losing.

EDIT - Also, it is not like anyone runs Fighting in competitive battles anyway unless they have no other ways of crushing Blissey-tanks, due to a high-level powerful Psychic being a staple in almost every team and Darks being their only real weakness (Bugs don't count, on account no one uses Bugs). We need a good three-evolution Dark though - Tyranitar and Shiftry have far too many type weaknesses to be viable nowadays.

Personally I'd rather they'd use a system where none of the types had any advantage over the other - what about Ice, Ghost and Electric? Gengar sucks due to its Poison-type making it weak to Psychic and we need a better three-level Ghost - likewise, there are only 3 pure Ice types, one of which is a legendary and the others, Snorunt and Glalie, have mediocre stats. Electric types only really have Mareep-Ampharos as their 3-evolution (except if this new pokemon is an Electabuzz evolution).

Or if not that, what about Ground - Electric - Flying. Flying is immune to Ground, Ground is immune to Electric, and there are only like 2 good flying attacks anyway so Electric might as well be immune to Flying. There are so many possibilities.

Honestly, if I see another Grass - Fire - Water, followed by a Rival, then 8 badges, followed by Elite 4, plus some stupid plot about Team (insert cool name here) trying to steal the magical pokemon fuckstick that lets them control some stupid piece of shit, I think I'm going to scream.

[Phoenixsong]

Start screaming, Heald. You know it's not going to be any different. Team Galaxy, heh... that's almost as bad as Ranger's "Team Go Go".



*sigh*

In terms of any inital rival battle, all that is needed is that the ATTACKS are somewhat balanced.

1st Encounter: Everyone's using something like Pound or Scratch anyway. Type has no meaning.

2nd Encounter: Everyone has a weak elemental power like Absorb or Ember. You usually have some sort of stat changing attack to help you, plus the advantage of being higher level. Usually the rival has not levelled enough to have their own elemental attack. Do you attack your rival's Squirtle with Ember? No. You use Scratch.

3rd encounter onwards: You have other pokémon and are not expected to go 1-1 with the starters.

It will NOT matter if the starting trio includes an immunity.


Thank you, rinku. Thank you. People keep whining about "But Psychic can't hit Dark!"... the aforementioned is ALWAYS the case because the starter Pokémon are "for beginners"... they learn attacks that have no elemental effects so that newcomers to the franchise can master the bare basics of battling. It will not kill you to see a Dark-type starter along with a Psychic-type.

As for everyone picking Dark, well, that's bull. People pick the starter they like the most; for example, in that kangaroo-triceratops-cat triangle I happened to like the 'roo most, and that's the supposed Fighter. You don't have to use your starter competitively; heck, you don't even have to use it ingame if you don't want (although I, like some others, almost always will). I might also point out that Dark-types don't normally have the prettiest defense stats, and the Fighting starter will mow the Dark one over given half a chance. That almost seems more like incentive to pick Psychic, actually.

And who knows, Heald... there're 100+ new Pokémon coming. Fighting may well become the type to beat for all we know. With the move overhaul the competitive scene is going to change drastically... we shall have to wait and see, eh?

On a final note, that "six starters" idea sounds cool. I'd not be against that.

[Foguet]

Actually, all six are fake. The respective creators of the pics came out and admitted it.

It is an interesting idea, however, and one that I would not be opposed to. If they made it so that all six starters were in a circle, type-wise, the like three starters from the other game... well, that would be really cool.

What ideas would you have for this? Mine, including the types that I like best, would be Fire / Ice / Ground / Poison / Grass / Rock.

[aragornbird]

Not to worry, they will be Fire/Grass/Water:
http://www.ds-gamer.nl/article/4232p1.html

Isn't that little water Penguin cute?!? It's so adorable, even more so than Torchic, I'm definitely choosing it (and not just because of my bias towards Bird Pokemon. Okay, maybe it is).

[Phoenixsong]

I just saw the pics on Serebii, and I have to say I'm not as thrilled as I thought I'd be. Hikozaru has a swirled ice cream cone for a hairdo... I know it's supposed to be a "flame", but it's weird. That's probably the first Fire starter that I don't like so much... and the turtle is freaky. Not to mention that I'm annoyed about the Grass starters always being reptilian (I think that fake beetle version of Naetoru was cooler), and we already HAVE a starter turtle! What's wrong with Grass-type bunnies, huh? Why can't we get a cute little bunny that evolves into some gigantic-insane-hare-thing?

Anyway, Naetoru and Hikozaru are all right... I can deal with them, at any rate. I'm with you on the penguin, though, AB... it's adorable! I wanna see what it evolves into. Speaking of which, Hikozaru's evolutions had better be damn awesome-looking or I'm gonna flip out.

Interesting, isn't it? That "fake blog" they were talking about on Serebii was actually true; the pictures themselves were just wrong. Huh, go figure.

Finally, I hope you're all satisfied. The starters are indeed going to remain FWG (although we can't say they won't have FDP added on in evolutions, as I've suggested elsewhere). You can stop whining and crying now, Nintendo has decided they're not going to be interesting and try something new after all.

[frylock]

The grass one looks really cool. The other two look pretty stupid, but the monkey probably evolves into something pretty cool.

[Charles Legend]

Liang I think People would rather  under stand it beter if the site was in English like at serebii net for example. http://www.serebii.net/index2.shtml

Anyways thank god that its back to Fire water and Grass,  anyways I I dis agee with you  Phoenixsong I love the turtle and well be getting it because of my bias towards Dragon and Reptile type pokemon... *cough* And don't think I wont have one in the ASB when the time comes ether. ;) 

frylock I could not agree with you more

~Charles Legend

[Hatake Kakashi]

I'm gonna beat the hell out of you with the penguin.

[TKnHappyNess]

The thing is, every game the starters are at Level 5 and have basic attacks. They don't get their STAB attacks until later. So it would be pretty much even at the start, and then you'd be outmatched later on. Besides, you can always have a back up for your starter.

[frylock]

Think any of them will get a second type? Wate/Ice is a pretty big no-brainer for the penguin. The turtle looks like it could become Grass/Ground or Grass/rock, but I'm pretty sure those both would give it x4 ice weakness, that penguin could whip it. No clue on the monkey.

[Silencer]

The grass one looks really cool. The other two look pretty stupid, but the monkey probably evolves into something pretty cool.


Why do I picture Beserk Gorilla for that?

[Arnen]

The grass one actually looks more like it could end up as some kind of dino tree thing, rather than a turtle. The penguin is extremely cute, and if I get the game that's the one I'm choosing. The monkey, though... *shudders* How people can think monkeys are cute is beyond me ><

[frylock]

The turtle could turn into a tree, yeah. I hope it turns into something grass/water somehow. Like a turtle with concave shell filled with water and a tree growing out of it. The monkey's probably going to evolve into a Donkey Kong-esque gorilla. The penguin, uhhh... a giant penguin.

[Charles Legend]

I'm gonna beat the hell out of you with the penguin.
TMM I Dare you to Try it when the time comes! Punk you my have the Expeince as a trainer however your team is rather on the Small side so as of now you and your pokemon d0ont pose a threat to me, not when I have pokemon like Dagonite, Sceptile, Lapras, Snorlax, Pinsir and Aerodactyl on my team and I well soon have a Charizard amung other things once I get some points... ;)

TKnHappyNess he was talking about once the D/P pokemon are alowed top be used in the Anime stle battling and the fact of the mater is TMM is a tough Vetion from the orignal ASB however he went under a new name and tryed to trick me in to thinking he was a blasted N00b in the end of that battle I got fed up that I used Self destuct with my snorlax...... And yes we know that but you have to under stand that TMM ment that he would beat the hell out of of my turtle with the penguin in the Anime style battling if you dont know what is TKnHappyNess you should go take a look... ;)

frylock, for now they are all Mono type and I think what mite happen is them staying as mono types.



[color=gray]The grass one actually looks more like it could end up as some kind of dino tree thing, rather than a turtle. The penguin is extremely cute, and if I get the game that's the one I'm choosing. The monkey, though... *shudders* How people can think monkeys are cute is beyond me ><
yeah I know thats why I said I like Naetoru the best, because I had that same fealling that it's may evole in to somthing that can learn at lest dragon claw.

~Charles Legend

[TKnHappyNess]

Think any of them will get a second type? Wate/Ice is a pretty big no-brainer for the penguin. The turtle looks like it could become Grass/Ground or Grass/rock, but I'm pretty sure those both would give it x4 ice weakness, that penguin could whip it. No clue on the monkey.


Grass/Ground would give it a 4x weakness, but not Grass/Rock. Cradily only gets a 2x weakness from Ice attacks.

[Razola]

TMM and I are big fans of the exploding ass monkey.

[Poryhedron]

Think any of them will get a second type? Wate/Ice is a pretty big no-brainer for the penguin. The turtle looks like it could become Grass/Ground or Grass/rock, but I'm pretty sure those both would give it x4 ice weakness, that penguin could whip it. No clue on the monkey.

They wouldn't make the penguin become Water/Ice or the turtle become Grass/Ground or Grass/Rock, because any of those makes the pokémon no longer resistant to what it's supposed to be resistant to. If you choose the fire monkey, and the penguin becomes Water/Ice, you have no reason not to use your Fire attacks against it because they'll do standard damage.

The turtle could turn into a tree, yeah. I hope it turns into something grass/water somehow. Like a turtle with concave shell filled with water and a tree growing out of it.
And they're not going to do that either, because it would allow you to have the edge against your rival's fire monkey. Are you actually advocating that the rival not have any advantage over you, or did you just not stop to think about the consequences of your ideas?

[frylock]

I was thiking more of what would be cool than what would make sense. Sorry.

[Jeff]

I had a feeling that the blog post was authentic. I'll miss the FPD trio concept, but then again those types could still be used on another trio at another point in the game where your rival gets the one that beats yours.

Well, at least the tradtion can continue. Looks like I'm getting the penguin no matter how awesome that flaming-butt monkey looks.

[+conspiracy+]

They wouldn't make the penguin become Water/Ice or the turtle become Grass/Ground or Grass/Rock, because any of those makes the pokémon no longer resistant to what it's supposed to be resistant to. If you choose the fire monkey, and the penguin becomes Water/Ice, you have no reason not to use your Fire attacks against it because they'll do standard damage.

So what if the penguin becomes water/ice.. it will still have a major edge over the fire monkey... you are making too big a deal over what YOU think it should be... those are good observations, but whos to say that that's the way it should be... I mean if that's the case, then why give water starters ice attacks when that gives them an equal chance of beating the grass starter.. especially since grass pokemon dont have their 95 base power attack... yet :D

[Everoy]

The only one of those three I don't like is the fire starter. I'm sure as hell choosing Pocchama (the penguin) in Diamond (the version I'm planning on getting) and when I buy Pearl, since I always get both versions (the only versions I don't have are Crystal and Fire Red), I'll pick Naetoru (the turtle).

[Heald]

The only one of those three I don't like is the fire starter. I'm sure as hell choosing Pocchama (the penguin) in Diamond (the version I'm planning on getting) and when I buy Pearl, since I always get both versions (the only versions I don't have are Crystal and Fire Red), I'll pick Naetoru (the turtle).When I got the original Red and my friend got Blue the same day, we just kept restarting one game and trading a different starter to the saved game until we had 2 of each starter, then when he started his real game I traded back one of each of the three starters, so we started the game with all three. That's the best thing to do, I guess.

[Razola]

Yeah, find a friend and just give each other the two starters you won't be using.

Shit, it'll be REAL easy if trading will be over the Wifi connection. Though, my guess is they'll make you unlock such a feature by beating Gym Leader 4 or something.

[SilverPersian]

Does anyone have the release dates for the new games?

And I'll be choosing either the water penguin or grass thing. I think the penguin is cuter, but the grass thing learns razor leaf, which is >>> bubble.

EDIT: Also, will the new games only work on a recently released version of GB? I hate it when they do that ._.

[mr_pikachu]

1. The Japanese release date is September 28, 2006. As far as I know, no date has been given for any other country's release date; however, most of the "Western" countries (those in North America, Europe, etc.) can probably expect it sometime in 2007.

2. It will work only on a Nintendo DS, although it will be able to trade with the GBA games. (On the other hand, trading with FrLg could be interesting. With all the effort you had to go through just to trade between them and RSE... I'm not sure if the programming is set up for direct trades with DP. We'll see.)

[Saffire Persian]

2. It will work only on a Nintendo DS, although it will be able to trade with the GBA games. (On the other hand, trading with FrLg could be interesting. With all the effort you had to go through just to trade between them and RSE... I'm not sure if the programming is set up for direct trades with DP. We'll see.)

Well, it's likely you'll have to get to a certain point to trade, but the good thing is there are no link cables involved for trading between Pearl and the other GBA games... you just plug the GBA cartridge into its slot on the DS, put your Diamond into the other, and trade.

[mr_pikachu]

Quite right; no link cables are necessary for DS-GBA trades. That'll be nice, especially for people who want to trade between their own cartridges (rather than with other people).

But considering that the "distant trading" feature had to be specifically unlocked in FrLg... I have to wonder if that sidequest unlocked an ability to trade with the DS, if it was already unlocked, or if the two games are simply incapable of trades with DP due to poor planning. (I kind of doubt the last possibility, but you never know...)

[Everoy]

I believe that FrLg will be able to trade with DP once you get the National Dex...

[*Murkrow]

As somebody who was really looking forward to the suggested D/F/P starters, I'll admit, I was pretty disappointed earlier when I came online and saw them for the first time. This wasn't helped by the fact that my first impressions was: laugh and think 'f*ck that, then.' But anyway...

Naetle: I saw this then instantly described it as the 'most horrific Pokémon I'd ever seen.' Mainly because of the fact that it just looked so bloody random and just spliced together. But I don't know...looking at it a bit more and reading what most people believe it's based off of (a snapping turtle) makes it seem more tolerable. Hopefully it'll get a good evolution though if it ends up with a bloody great tree on its head then I'll just cry.

Hikozaru: Hate it. It's just a boring monkey with a random flame coming out of its ass. That and what I think is some promotional art for the anime just has it as trying to be cute and failing. It'll need to have a ridiculously good evolution to make me pay any more attention to it.

Pocchamo: First thought: it's cute. Later thoughts: too cute. It just looks to me like the monkey: something attempting to be cuter than it should. I like it more, but now I think about it, not much.

Overall, though, I'm just dissapointed. Especially considering these three are going to be among the most advertised Pokémon of this generation, which means that they're going to be everywhere. Oh goodie.

[Rabid_Cow]

Yeah, the starters do appear to be a little "too cute", but at the same time none of the starters have ever been the most intimidating pokemon. Only time will tell if their evos will make them worth our time or not.

[rinku]

Yeah, find a friend and just give each other the two starters you won't be using.

Shit, it'll be REAL easy if trading will be over the Wifi connection. Though, my guess is they'll make you unlock such a feature by beating Gym Leader 4 or something.


That's my guess. For once, I'm not planning on restarting at all. There should be no real excuse for not having all the starters as soon as you can start breeding and trading internationally. It doesn't bother me at all if the international trading is unlocked at a later point - you don't need that stuff to play the game, and I kinda like playing the story mode with only in-game pokémon.

Like the starters - I think these are really good designs, much better than the RS ones, which I always thought were a bit too simplistic. Figure the monkey will grow up to be Fire-kong, the penguin will become an Emperor Penguin (prediction - starts as Water, becomes Water/Ice at second evo). Guess is that the shoot on the turtle turns into a pine-tree, because that will look a bit like bonsai (and yes, I know Bonsly is the bonsai pokémon, but that won't stop them doing another reference to it.)

[Jeff]

But considering that the "distant trading" feature had to be specifically unlocked in FrLg... I have to wonder if that sidequest unlocked an ability to trade with the DS, if it was already unlocked, or if the two games are simply incapable of trades with DP due to poor planning. (I kind of doubt the last possibility, but you never know...)


If DP can read and write to the GBA carts for the purpose of trading there's nothing that says they can't read it for the purpose of seeing if you have the national dex or not, and chances are they will not allow the trade if you don't have it.



Yeah, the starters do appear to be a little "too cute", but at the same time none of the starters have ever been the most intimidating pokemon. Only time will tell if their evos will make them worth our time or not.


Naturally starters have been cute, it's what they evolve into that's intimidating.

[Poryhedron]

the penguin will become an Emperor Penguin (prediction - starts as Water, becomes Water/Ice at second evo).
I've said this before, Water/Ice upsets the RPS. Sure, you can teach Ice Beam to Blastoise, but Blastoise doesn't get STAB and you had to seek out an expensive TM. Plus, if you choose the fire monkey and your rival's penguin becomes Water/Ice, you've got it made because Fire will hit it for standard. Penguins don't have to be Ice-type; believe it or not, there are penguins that don't live in Antarctica. The Galapagos varieties are somewhat-famous examples.

[frylock]

The monkey looks like it could become fire/fighting, but that's awful similar to Blaziken. Grass/Ground would upset the system, so for the turtle, I'm guessing either grass/rock or grass/Dragon.

[Poryhedron]

The monkey looks like it could become fire/fighting, but that's awful similar to Blaziken. Grass/Ground would upset the system, so for the turtle, I'm guessing either grass/rock or grass/Dragon.
Rock and Dragon both protect it from the monkey's Fire attacks. Rock also strips away its resistance to Water. RPS combos are trickier than you might think.

[mr_pikachu]

True, but RPS systems don't have to follow those guidelines permanently. They've never done anything quite that extreme to mess with the balance, but remember the eventual changes in RBY? Charizard became Fire/Flying, which made it insanely powerful against the Grass/Poison Venusaur.

Other than that, the only change from the straightforward RPS was Blaziken in RSE, whose Fighting type still didn't really shift the balance. But the RBY change doesn't rule out such major alterations late in the game, when players are expected to have more (and stronger) Pokemon to cope with it.

[+conspiracy+]

I agree.. with mr. pikachu and as I've said before who cares if fire attacks do standard damage.. it will still lose in a one on one with the penguin. period. But that's the beauty of teams, and that's what teams are for, so please stop repeating the same thing over and over =P

On a side note I hope the fire monkey gets another type to it other than fighting... I've said this in an ASB topic, but a cyborg monkey making it fire/steel would be something different... and it could still have typical fire pokemon stats... good attacking stats, decent speed, and crap defenses, or with the steel type it could change around to crap speed and good defense.... it would be a cool change of pace :D

[Poryhedron]

I agree.. with mr. pikachu and as I've said before who cares if fire attacks do standard damage.. it will still lose in a one on one with the penguin. period. But that's the beauty of teams, and that's what teams are for, so please stop repeating the same thing over and over =P
I realize I'm sounding like a broken record here, but honestly, I just don't see Nintendo using the "you'll have a good team anyway" line of reasoning. Not sure why, it's certainly valid reasoning, but it just doesn't seem to me like something they would factor in when setting up the starters. Maybe I'm alone in thinking that.

[frylock]

Maybe the turtle could become steel/grass, with engines, armor, etc. and the plant would become a little flower sticking out of it's head, sort of like a "flower working it's way out from beneath a sidewalk" thing. That would be cool, and all it would do is make it even more weak against fire. Then, the penguin could become Water/Ice, because Steel would make Ice do normal damage. Then the monkey would stay fire, because the only types weak against Ice would be Grass, ground, dragon, of flying. All of them but the last one would mess up the balance, and flying doesn't make sense. Fire's had enough dual types anyway.

I know that' probably not going to happen, but it's pretty cool.

[Everoy]

I realize I'm sounding like a broken record here, but honestly, I just don't see Nintendo using the "you'll have a good team anyway" line of reasoning. Not sure why, it's certainly valid reasoning, but it just doesn't seem to me like something they would factor in when setting up the starters. Maybe I'm alone in thinking that.


I agree with you. These are people that force you to trade pokemon holding items in GSC to evolve them for continuity.

[+conspiracy+]

Maybe the turtle could become steel/grass


actually this is kinda what happened with swampert... with the steel type, it becomes immune to something previously 2x effective (Poison), but gains a 4x weakness to its superior starter type (Fire)

Swampert got it's immunity to electric, but in turn recieved it's 4x weakness to grass

It's very possible imo =)

[mr_pikachu]

Aw, jeez, how did I forget about Swampert? >_<

Anyway, I hate to say it, but it does seem like these odd shifts do have a bit of a precedent. RBY's Bulbasaur was a dual-type from the start (although Grass/Poison didn't hurt the balance much), and Charizard's Fire/Flying made it destroy Venusaur while making it no weaker against Blastoise. In RSE, Swampert's additional Ground type gave it the ability to totally wreck Blaziken, who became Fire/Fighting.

But I guess we'll just have to see what happens. Maybe there won't be any dual-types at all with the starters this time, much like GSC. But from the looks of things, I rather doubt it.

[rinku]

The starter types were never balanced in the beginning anyway, simply because water ones can take ice attacks to be SE vs Grass. Seriously, when does a Blastoise really feel threatened by a Venusaur? Protect takes care of Solarbeam without Sunny Day... either way, Venusaur is going to get a Blizzard or Ice Beam on turn one. Weaker grass attacks are just that - weak.

(That would be my #1 reason why they made the RS one Water/Ground, by the way. There is little doubt that Sceptile owns Swampert :) On the other hand, Sceptile with Aerial Ace owns Blaziken too...)

My *guess* is that penguin->water/ice, but maybe not. However, if so, who is to say the grass type won't have some killer move that counters it. Grass is still SE vs water/ice in any case.

[Treeckachu]

Sidenote- I am pretty sure Nintendo confirmed trade from LG and FR to D/P, but I could be mistaken.

OKAY...HERE GOES!


The monkey...is it evo or devo related to Aipom?

Now then, Pokemon, and starters...

A steel Spider would be a nice starter, as long as it stays small until the third evolution stage. Tough and agile, definitely my choice!

What about a rock elephant? *tackled, stuffed head-first in trashcan* Neva mind...(No seriously, think about elephants. One that paralyzes you with a trumpeting noise and then flatttens you. Or even a FIRE elephant, that uses flamethrower from its trunk???? NICE!)

A great Pokemon in general would be a rock/flying mix. Different, no?

I've always wondered why there is no bunny Pokemon. Anyways, another nice starter would be a fire type baby Gorilla, which evolves into a powerful flaming KING KONG type ape after two evolution phases, basically owning in a fight with Snorlax. Wailord can still top that though.

A nice starter change would be this. Ever consider all prehistorics? Maybe a Pterodactyl PURE flying type, a rock type raptor, and some sort of ground type.

A nice twist (not a starter) would be some freaky, striped, grass/poison tiger, that'd mix things up. I hate to confuse you guys with insane suggestions any longer but...why is there no sound type?

It seems like it would be around by now. Know what I mean?

I'll stop now. I went a little nuts with my thoughts, so I should allow ya some room to respond.

[Poryhedron]

Sidenote- I am pretty sure Nintendo confirmed trade from LG and FR to D/P, but I could be mistaken.

OKAY...HERE GOES!


The monkey...is it evo or devo related to Aipom?
Why would it be? What sense would that make?



Now then, Pokemon, and starters...

A steel Spider would be a nice starter, as long as it stays small until the third evolution stage. Tough and agile, definitely my choice!
I highly doubt they'll make a Steel starter, because Steel's many resistances make it too good to be able to start the game with.



What about a rock elephant? *tackled, stuffed head-first in trashcan* Neva mind...(No seriously, think about elephants. One that paralyzes you with a trumpeting noise and then flatttens you. Or even a FIRE elephant, that uses flamethrower from its trunk???? NICE!)
Donphan not good enough for you?



A great Pokemon in general would be a rock/flying mix. Different, no?
If by "different" you mean "has been around since Day 1", sure. I take it you're disappointed by Aerodactyl?



I've always wondered why there is no bunny Pokemon.
Yeah, I've wondered why there's no such thing as Wigglytuff or Azumarill, too. —actually, despite the raging debate over whether Eevee is a cat or a dog, some of the Pokémon manga has Eevee that look very rabbitlike.



Anyways, another nice starter would be a fire type baby Gorilla, which evolves into a powerful flaming KING KONG type ape after two evolution phases, basically owning in a fight with Snorlax. Wailord can still top that though.
Maybe we should wait to see what the new fire-type monkey starter's evos look like before continuing this line of thought. Monkey to King Kong is not too farfetch'd for Nintendo.



A nice starter change would be this. Ever consider all prehistorics? Maybe a Pterodactyl PURE flying type, a rock type raptor, and some sort of ground type.
I'm pretty sure Nintendo has declared from on high that there shall never be a pure Flying-type. Let's see, what Type1 could we give the Flying-type and have it work with Rock and Ground...it would need attacks that are super-effective against the Ground-type, but not the Rock-type. That limits it to Ice/Flying. Ice/Flying beats Ground, Ground beats Rock, Rock beats Ice/Flying. Sure!



A nice twist (not a starter) would be some freaky, striped, grass/poison tiger, that'd mix things up.Why shouldn't that be a starter? It could start out as a leafy tiger cub. The whole Grass-type-that-isn't-a-plant thing would be hard to swing, but it's doable.



I hate to confuse you guys with insane suggestions any longer but...why is there no sound type?

It seems like it would be around by now. Know what I mean?
Lots of people on the internet have been clamoring for strange new types. Sound is one of the few that's actually plausible, given the Soundproof special ability, but adding new types is something never to be taken lightly because it dramatically alters the entire pokémon world. Look what adding Steel and Dark did to Psychics...no longer the top of the litter. And Magneton actually switched type relations. Plus all of the pokémon who relied on Bite dealing good Normal-type damage...any time you want to add a new type, the question needs to be, "Can I live without this"?

[mr_pikachu]

I'm pretty sure Nintendo has declared from on high that there shall never be a pure Flying-type. Let's see, what Type1 could we give the Flying-type and have it work with Rock and Ground...it would need attacks that are super-effective against the Ground-type, but not the Rock-type. That limits it to Ice/Flying. Ice/Flying beats Ground, Ground beats Rock, Rock beats Ice/Flying. Sure!

I thought that the musical note parrot was supposed to be pure Flying. Was the article on that mistranslated?



Lots of people on the internet have been clamoring for strange new types. Sound is one of the few that's actually plausible, given the Soundproof special ability, but adding new types is something never to be taken lightly because it dramatically alters the entire pokémon world. Look what adding Steel and Dark did to Psychics...no longer the top of the litter. And Magneton actually switched type relations. Plus all of the pokémon who relied on Bite dealing good Normal-type damage...any time you want to add a new type, the question needs to be, "Can I live without this"?

One of the really notable ones was the Light type, just because Dark also exists. But Dark was doable because there were moves that were converted to that type (like Bite!). Steel, on the other hand, has become a defensive type; it doesn't have great moves, but it compensates because Pokemon of that type tend to be very tough. Since it'd be tough to have a second type like Steel, and since Light wouldn't have any moves to convert, that's be tough.

But as you said, Sound probably wouldn't be good either, mostly because it's not at all necessary for the balance. I think everyone realized that Psychics were vastly overpowered in RBY, so Dark and Steel types were excellent ways to shift the balance in the oher direction. They were necessary, but other types may not be needed right now.

[Blademaster]

I thought that the musical note parrot was supposed to be pure Flying. Was the article on that mistranslated?

Yep, 'fraid so. Parappa the Rapper is Normal/Flying, too. XP

[frylock]

Looking at the moves the penguin learns, it seems to be pure water(no ice moves,) solving that argument. The monkey could become Fire/Dark, but it might just learn a lot of Dark moves(Taunt, Scheme, can't think of the third one.)