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aragornbird
12th September 2006, 03:10 AM
PokeBeach (http://www.pokebeach.com/) just released the new Coro Coro scans with tons of new Pokemon on them. Some sound like they'll be awesome. Some are pre-evos and sound lame. =(

I'm particularily fond of Zugaidos, a dinosaur Pokemon with a cool new ability and new attack. A picture and info was also released on a new Gym Leader for this game, a new PokeBall, and info on connecting with other players.

All in all, it reminds us that D/P is just a couple weeks away! :)

mr_pikachu
12th September 2006, 03:25 AM
Am I the only one who thinks that the new trainers (http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0906/coro-coro/page1.jpg) are a total ripoff of the ones from FrLg, with only the hats and the girl's hair being slightly different? Yeah, I know it won't make any difference whatsoever in terms of gameplay, but c'mon!

I see the method of choosing your starter (near the top of the left page here (http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0906/coro-coro/page4.jpg) is essentially the same as it was in RSE. Hmm. The region looks cool, though.

I kinda hope they're not pulling another Wally (http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0906/coro-coro/page5.jpg). It was cool before, but I don't want it to seem like too much of a rehash here. Hopefully they'll use some creativity with this guy.

But if you remember anything from this... don't use the new Wi-fi system to send little Pikachu drawings (http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0906/coro-coro/page6.jpg)!

Hopefully the new Pokemon will turn out well. Some of them seem really freaky, but others could be quite cool. I remember being freaked out by Sudowoodo back in the day, but now it seems awesome. I hope the same thing happens here.

Elec Man EXE
12th September 2006, 10:29 AM
Finally, a real Flytrap pokemon! I love it...

New attack called Double Headbutt? How uncreative can you possibly get with attack names, jeez. And Metal Buster? Sounds like Mega Man :rolleyes:

*Murkrow
12th September 2006, 02:42 PM
I'm loving Zugaidosu - it's so cute! As long as it gets a decent evolution then I'll be happy. The same can be said for it's counterpart, Tatetopsu; not too keen on it at the moment, but if it evolves into a decent looking triceratops=sold. I've been dying for a triceratops Pokémon for ages now, even though it will be a boring type if it does so. :-/ Oh well.

Not sure about Korinku. It looks cute, but what the hell is up with the colours? The blue just makes it look so childish and the colour split on its body is just random. And it has Intimidate....why? I can see myself growing to like it, though, same as Mukkuru, as I generally like the early birds you can get.

But the rest....WTF best sums that up. I started laughing when I saw Minomoochi and Masukippa...not a good sign. They just look, well, not stupid, but odd. Very odd. Then there's Bippa, which is just boring, as is Korobooshi.

That leaves Pinpuku and Subomi. Pinpuku is meh, looks stupid but compared to Subomi it's the greatest Pokémon in existence. Subomi=worst Pokémon ever. It looks NOTHING like its damned evolution, has an absolute shit design (seriously five year olds can draw better than that), and can't even be justified along the lines of 'large Pokémon (i.e. Chansey) shouldn't hatch staright from eggs' which is a crap excuse but an excuse nonetheless. It's taking up a spot that could have been filled by something much more decent. Not to mention, Roselia's already got an evolution this generation, what the hell is the point of giving it a pre-evolution? ¬_¬

Still....Diaruga's type rocks. Steel/Dragon for the win. :)

frylock
12th September 2006, 03:30 PM
The baby Chansey can learn Charm. We better pray for a special-type fighting move. I like Parukia and Diaruga's types, we finally get a powerful Dragon that isn't quadruply weak to ice.

Poryhedron
12th September 2006, 04:05 PM
The baby Chansey can learn Charm. We better pray for a special-type fighting move.
If moves are being re-categorized based on contact, the Regis' move Superpower could be exactly that.

I'm just glad to be able to take a closer look at Corobohshi and see that its antennae don't resemble trumpets after all. What's up with the "Cricket" designation, though? That looks nothing whatsoever like a cricket.
I have to agree that Korinku with Intimidate is nothing short of laughable.
Beappa annoys me incredibly. Also, I've been annoyed in general by pre-evos, but Pineco!? Pineco!? That's like third or fourth on the list of all-time "Pokémon who don't have any use at all for a pre-evo"! If Nintendo is trying to push us even further away from wanting to bother filling the Pokédex, they're doing an excellent job.

Blademaster
12th September 2006, 08:23 PM
OK, I'm gonna attempt to keep my ranting about the new Pokemon to a minimum this time:

Corobohshi: Not unbearable, but I still think it looks more like The Penguin than a cricket. :\

Korinku: Eh, Electric Pokemon don't really have agreat track record, but at least this one's somewhat original. And OMFG!!!11! It isn't YELLOW!!!!1!!!1111!

Subomi: I hated Roselia's Evo; I hate it's Pre-evo, too. Roselia bites, regardless of what Kevvaelli has to say about it, and besides, that is one ugly Pre-evo!

Mukkuru: Another ****ing bird? Pass...

Beappa: A beaver with mumps... Eh, could be worse. I'll wait until I know what it can do before I pass judgment on it.

Pinpuku: Cute, but it's gonna be a bitch to add to the Pokedex. :sweat:

Zugaidos: Finally, a truly cool DP Pokemon! Huzzah to the intellectual mind who created this little dinosaur! :dance:

Tatetops: Could be tougher-looking, but it'll suffice.

Masukippa: GWAAAACK! That's creepy! But... at least it looks cool... I guess... It could be popular.

Minomucchi: It looks like an artichoke. Meh...

Dialga: This looks like it should've been a Dark/Dragon, but whatever - it's still cool.

Palkia: Now this should've been the Steel/Dragon - how does that look like a Water Pokemon in any way?

Now, we have about 2 dozen DP Pokemon so far... Hopefully, they'll get better instead of worse. Because they ain't too promising right now!

DaBlackBandit
13th September 2006, 11:59 PM
* Corobohshi (the bug guy) - the Cricket Pokemon. Type: Bug. Ability: Shed Skin. It can learn Growl. Great more worthless Bug Pokemon



* Korinku (the blue, yellow, and black cat-thing) - the Flash Pokemon. Type: Electric. It has two abilities, Intimidate and Fighting Spirit. Fighting Spirit increases its Attack power when something (not sure what - perhaps Ability?) is shared with the opponent. It can learn Spark....So an electric type with an Ability to lower Ground types attack, good idea. Good bye Swampert, hello new counter. And Fighting Spirit, sounds interesting. I'll be interested into see what it does.



* Subomi (green and yellow guy): the Bud Pokemon. Types: Grass/Poison. Abilities: Natural Cure or Poison Point. Evolves into: Roselia. It can learn Mega Drain.

We do not need anymore worthless grass/poison hybrids. WOOOhoooMega Drain. Its really special.



* Mukkuru (the brown bird): the Starling Pokemon. Types: Normal/Flying. Ability: Keen Eyes. It can learn an attack called Brave Bird, which is a strong Flying type attack. It is a 1HKO move.

Great, now a Flying Pokemon that can use a OHKO move, I bet it learns Agility, so then it's speed is raised and then it kills everything in one hit. And it's a flying one, Nothing is going to negate that. More cheap Flying Pokemon. Skarmory your dead.



* Beappa (the beaver): the Round Mouse Pokemon. Type: Normal. Ability: Unknown, but it is new. It can learn Tackle.

worthless Zigzagoon rip off. More Rattata like Pokemon I bet it gets Super Fang, and Hyper Fang.


* Pinpuku (Chansey pre-evo): the Pretending Pokemon. Type: Normal. Abilities: Natural Cure and Serene Grace. It likes to "play house." o_O It can learn Charm.

Yeah, Chansey got cute.....more annoying I can tell.


* Zugaidos (the pachycephalosaur): the Headbutt Pokemon. Type: Rock. Ability: Fantastic, which apparently blocks the opponent's ability. He learns Take Down and a new attack called Double Edged Headbutt, which is a rock-type version of Double Edge.

I hope it evolves into T-Rex like Pokemon, I want it too eat Pikachu. ^_^



* Tatetops (the yellow dinosaur): the Shield Pokemon. Types: Rock / Metal. Ability: Sturdy. It can learn Ancient Power and Metal Buster, which is a massively damaging Steel attack.Great another Aggron. What a waste.



* Masukippa: the Flytrap Pokemon. Type: Grass. Ability: Levitate. It can learn Vine Whip.
So, now they are going back to there roots, If that thing learns Stun Spore, Wrap will be so annoying again.


* Minomucchi (the pineco-looking thing): the Bagworm Pokemon. Type: Bug. Ability: Shed Skin. He is most likely the pre-evolution to Pineco. He can learn Protect.

we don't need any more worthless baby Pokemon, unless they are cute.


* Dialga (the blue Diamond legendary) is Steel / Dragon.
* Palkia (the pink Pearl legendary) is Water / Dragon.

They better have Levitate, if they have some stupid Weather Ability, they just f' up everything.

Elec Man EXE
14th September 2006, 12:38 PM
Korinku's ability increases its attack when the opponent is the same gender... prime canidate for Attract. Attract against a pokemon of the opposite gender, attack bonus if its the same gender.

frylock
14th September 2006, 03:14 PM
Korinku's ability etiher lower the other guy's attack or raise their attack, could he be a physical electric type? Spark(and probably Volt Tackle) are becoming physical...

The only evo/ pre-evo I htink they should make is a Dunsparce evolution.

DarkestLight
15th September 2006, 10:17 PM
OK, I'm gonna attempt to keep my ranting about the new Pokemon to a minimum this time:

I wish I could >>.....

Corobohshi: Not unbearable, but I still think it looks more like The Penguin than a cricket. :\

It looks like Volbeat and Illumise's Pimp. I can just see it opening up its little red cape there and smacking down biznatches with its pimp cane...

Korinku: Eh, Electric Pokemon don't really have a great track record, but at least this one's somewhat original. And OMFG!!!11! It isn't YELLOW!!!!1!!!1111!

Yay for the non Yello-O shire. Wait. Manectric was mostly blue...with some yellow...this thing is blue--with some Yellow...Damn, Ninty lost points for originality. But hey, if it can do some cool Simba-esque ability, then we may have a go for a usable Electric Type.

Subomi: I hated Roselia's Evo; I hate it's Pre-evo, too. Roselia bites, regardless of what Kevvaelli has to say about it, and besides, that is one ugly Pre-evo!

-.-...Subomi...is another Pre-evo. See. What's that now? 9? I'm feeling weak and queasy from all this Pre-syndrome.

Mukkuru: Another ****ing bird? Pass...

Well...hold on now. I really don't hate any flyng type--Ooh I take that back. Skarm can die. But aside from that...A Flying OHKO Move? Well we have an Ice One...so Yay, two non-resistant OHKO's...aside from Sturdy's..

Beappa: A beaver with mumps... Eh, could be worse. I'll wait until I know what it can do before I pass judgment on it.

o.o Beaver. There's a relatively new one. Wasn't expecting that..actually. I agree though, I am half expecting the Super/Hyper fangs to be learned by this guy. I want one though.

Pinpuku: Cute, but it's gonna be a bitch to add to the Pokedex. :sweat:


NO! NO DAMN IT NO! DONT FALL INTO THE CUTENESS TRAP >O!!! -.- It learns Charm. Ok, WHO decided for that to learn Charm? People just wanna be mean ._.


Zugaidos: Finally, a truly cool DP Pokemon! Huzzah to the intellectual mind who created this little dinosaur! :dance:

I agree wholeheatedly. Pachecephalosaurus! Yay. Wish it was a dual type-but Rock suits it well. Hope it has decent Sp Def though...dun need no stinking 1HKO by Dunsparce Ice Beam k'naamean?

Tatetops: Could be tougher-looking, but it'll suffice.

Hey wait...every fossil..O wait, no Aerodactyl dosen't evolve. SHIRE! I hope my Pachy evolves, cause this Aggron 2 is gonna evolve...it better, and it better be better than its predecesor. -.-...

Masukippa: GWAAAACK! That's creepy! But... at least it looks cool... I guess... It could be popular.

Levitating Grass type :D! About time. About fricking time! Yer all prolly like "Hey DL, Ground dun really affect Grass..." I know that. I'm saying, it'll stop stupid Mud Shot from pissin' me off -.-. And he looks dangerous. Like you could dig a hole, set a Masukippa in it, and then have him chomp unsuspecting Pokemon and Trainers and steal their money. Hey you never know, they do have an underground world...Heheeehe....anyway..

Minomucchi: It looks like an artichoke. Meh...

Pory...Just...I agee with Pory. What's this now, I lost count of the Prexplosion

Dialga: This looks like it should've been a Dark/Dragon, but whatever - it's still cool.

Steel Dragon. Wow. It finally happened. Crazy

Palkia: Now this should've been the Steel/Dragon - how does that look like a Water Pokemon in any way?

Kingdra 2, please stand up.

Now, we have about 2 dozen DP Pokemon so far... Hopefully, they'll get better instead of worse. Because they ain't too promising right now!

Blademaster
15th September 2006, 10:22 PM
It looks like Volbeat and Illumise's Pimp. I can just see it opening up its little red cape there and smacking down biznatches with its pimp cane...

LOL, Pimpmon... :lol:

Arnen
17th September 2006, 04:32 AM
*sees the new female player character and twitches spasmodically* Too.. much.. pink... -_-

Everoy
17th September 2006, 04:57 PM
KORINKU - I like it, personally.

SUBOMI - One of the two pre-evos I like (the other being Tamanta).

BIPPA - It's not fugly, it's just misunderstood o.o; Nah, it's just fugly. Fugly beaver.

PINPUKU - I'd like to go die now.

ZUGAIDOSU - HELLZ JA. 'nuff said.

TATETOPUSU - Nice. Not as awesome as Zugai, but still nice.

MINOMUCCHI - 6.9; What? A sack of bug covered in leaves?

MASUKIPPA - This is pretty cool, I likes it.

KOROBOOSHI - Heh. Pimpmon.

MUKKURU - Well, this common pokemon might not be completely hated by I. (WTF. I lost my grammar.)

Blademaster
17th September 2006, 08:22 PM
You know, I was thinking recently...

Isn't Tamanta also the name of the final boss from Super Mario Land? Weird! :eek:

The Blue Avenger
17th September 2006, 08:26 PM
Sorry, you're thinking of Tatanga.

SoulflameNinetales
21st September 2006, 07:44 AM
Thus speaks a true gamer. :D

*salutes*

Blademaster
21st September 2006, 06:13 PM
...Tamanta, Tatanga, whatever...

Incidentally, it looks like the same thing is happening with the new Starters as with the RSE ones - they're getting their own custom moves. Naetle is getting Leaf Storm, and Pyro-Monkey is getting... uh, I forget. The Penguin, too. But still, Leaf Storm? Hmmmm...

Elec Man EXE
22nd September 2006, 11:11 AM
I don't think Leaf Storm will be "unique" to the starter, personally. If its a Grass type Overheat, that doesn't seem special enough to belong to only him.

The Blue Avenger
22nd September 2006, 11:32 AM
Well, you could say the same about Psycho Boost being a Psychic-type Overheat, and it's unique to Deoxys.

Elec Man EXE
22nd September 2006, 11:40 AM
True, but in the same way overloading your Psychic power seems like something that only a very powerful pokemon could pull off (Mewtwo should have had it to, IMO, but no one else).

Leaf Storm... well, it just seems like Razor Leaf to the extreme.

Which also raises the question, why is Razor Leaf physical, but Leaf Storm special? They're both attacks using leafs, so.

frylock
22nd September 2006, 04:22 PM
The Monkey doesn't get an exclusive move. He does have a few Dark moves, though. He could become fire/dark.

DarkestLight
22nd September 2006, 05:18 PM
o.O Ok. With it confirmed that Crunch and Bite are Physical...this makes this Dark lover one very happy person. I'm so trading over this Elite T-tar now.

Andrew
22nd September 2006, 05:32 PM
You guys know that bringing in your old pokemon isn't an easy trade away rite? You can drop 6 monsters off into dp per day per game. From there, you go to a special park to walk around and try refind them and battle and capture them again. Lols good luck vs ya lv 100s and hope u don't faint them and thex dissapear forever

mr_pikachu
22nd September 2006, 06:14 PM
Um... what? o_0;;

Never heard anything like that before... what's the reference for that?

Shadow Wolf
22nd September 2006, 07:22 PM
Lols good luck vs ya lv 100s and hope u don't faint them and thex dissapear forever


Well, nobody has to worry about that because, apparently, the "Park Ball" has a 100 percent chance of capturing a pokemon (It works like a Master Ball). :D



Um... what? o_0;;

Never heard anything like that before... what's the reference for that?


I think that the reference you need is here (http://www.pokebeach.com/index.php?start_from=10&ucat=&archive=&subaction=&id=&). Sorry if this is advertising.

I hope that this helps. ^_^

mr_pikachu
22nd September 2006, 07:38 PM
Hmm, okay. I hadn't seen that yet. The question remains, though... can you still trade Pokemon normally between RSEFrLg and DP, or is this Nintendo's way of keeping people from exploiting the "Time Machine" (as in RBY/GSC)? It's gonna suck if we can't do tradebacks to get good moves... that was one of the best things about GSC for competitive RBY battlers.

frylock
22nd September 2006, 10:01 PM
I'm pretty sure you just have to find them, and they give you a super ball with a 100% catch rate. You can't get them back to your old games, though.

DarkestLight
25th September 2006, 12:53 PM
Yah, no tradebacks.

Still, I'm throwing me baby over there, get through that game...and then tear people up with her once she is returned to my POWER!!

frylock
26th September 2006, 03:20 PM
Anyone see the starter evolutions yet? The monkey turns into a fighting monkey and becomes fire/fighting, the turtle turns into a giant turtle with a tree on it's back, and becomes Grass/Ground(I called it!). The Penguin becomes a giant robo-penguin, and becomes water/steel. Each pokemon gains a type strong against the starter their weak against's type, except the penguin, which sohuld be able to learn Ice Beam anyway. Also, Lapras and Chimecho(might) get pre-evos. :(

Arnen
26th September 2006, 05:32 PM
...Damn. I don't like ANY of those evos. >< *sigh* I'll probably just end up transferring starters from Ruby or Sapphire instead of actually using one of the new ones... Blah...

DarkestLight
26th September 2006, 05:36 PM
o.o Ok. I'm just going to edit this post, because alot of typing is gonna occur over the next few hours...

1) Only 114 new Pokemon? Say WHAT? I do hope that's wrong :o. I was hoping around 160 or something like that.

2) The Pre-Evo list....
**And just in case-I'm gonna list the Pre-Evo's right here.
DP has so far: Subomi, Pinpiku, Bonsly, Mime Jr, Munchlax, Tamanta.
Theoretically: Pre Evo of Lapras and Chimiecho {Wtf Chimecho?}
--We also may have a pre-evo or Cherimu, but I won't count that since Cherimu itself is new.

Honestly. Everyone. Do we NEED a Chimecho Pre-Evo? No, seriously. That takes the cake, I thought Chanseypoop did it, but no, that guy did it all.

3) Starters. I'm actually liking all three.
3a. Still going with Grass, but... into Grass/Ground, Ice Beam 4TW -.-... That makes me sad. However, the name prompty reminded me of Venusaur's Japanese name which I'm not gonna try to attempt to spell right now.
3b. Ok, no lie, the Fire-Monkey looks crazy. Even though its another Blaziken, May have better defenses, or higher speed, since its a monkey. He looks crazy though!
3c. OK! Water Steel. Not funny. This typing went from obsolete to common u_U

4) Evolved form of Korobooshi! OMFG ITS PIMPMON! COMPLETE WTH PIMP CAME! Ready to smack Volbishes and Illumiggas DOWN!

5) Umm they got some Real cool Wolf looking joint THAT I HOPE turns out to be Mightyena's evolved form, because that beast looks sexy :O.

The Gym's and Badges are looking cool, I'm surprised at the order that they are in-(theoretically). We finally got enough Electric Variation to warrant a challenge? xD.

Tomorrow should be a fun day :O.


o.O EDIT: Umm yeah flib just threw up the sprites :o. Holy hell at all the Evos. Im not gonna spoil them, just...go and check them out for yourself at your own risk.

frylock
26th September 2006, 05:43 PM
The monkey really dissappoints me, I was hoping for a Fire gorilla, not some crapy fight-chimp. The turtle is awesome, even though it will be next to useless to the penguin, I like it's type. The penguin seems to have a pretty crappy type, but it looks cool.

rinku
26th September 2006, 09:59 PM
The monkey really dissappoints me, I was hoping for a Fire gorilla, not some crapy fight-chimp. The turtle is awesome, even though it will be next to useless to the penguin, I like it's type. The penguin seems to have a pretty crappy type, but it looks cool.


Water/Steel?

x2 vulnerable to Electric, Fighting and Ground.
x2 resistant to Normal, Water, Flying, Psychic, Bug, Rock, Ghost, Dragon and Dark
x4 resistant to Ice and Steel
Immune to Poison.

Sounds pretty decent to me.

frylock
27th September 2006, 08:56 PM
isn't x4 weak against electric? I never really looked at it, sorry.

Blademaster
27th September 2006, 09:06 PM
Actually, fry-man, Steel isn't at all weak against Electric.

...Yeah, I never understood that, either. :confused:

Poryhedron
27th September 2006, 10:50 PM
Should Steel be weak against Electric? I don't see why...
...heck, Steel can already be considered "weak" against Electric just because it isn't strong against it.

Blademaster
28th September 2006, 12:13 AM
Steel should be weak against Water and Electric both. If Rock can be eroded by Water, then Steel can be rusted by it.

Also, if Water can conduct Electric attacks, then so should Steel.

rinku
28th September 2006, 01:24 AM
Looking at Enpeturo's base stats, assuming it's in the usual HP/A/D/S/SA/SD format, you'd be still wanting to attack it with Fighting or Ground - it's base SD of 101 is better than its Defence of 88.

Dark Scizor
28th September 2006, 02:47 AM
Serebii.

And this thread: http://www.pokemasters.net/forums/index.php?topic=45662.0

Sceptile_Master
29th September 2006, 08:43 PM
Hmm there's some pleasing looking evolutions there though. I always thought togetics were really cool but didn't train one because they are obviously just a bit too weak. Meaning I;m looking forwards to the togetic evolution. And that magnemite evolution will probably dominate. Skarmory will be shitting its pants.

frylock
30th September 2006, 09:43 PM
It'd be easier to conduct electricity with steel than it would be to melt it with fire, so it should definately be weak against electric.

rinku
1st October 2006, 06:26 PM
It'd be easier to conduct electricity with steel than it would be to melt it with fire, so it should definately be weak against electric.


But what damage does the electricity *do* to the metal, compared to what fire does?

In any case, what is, is. It ain't changing.

Blademaster
1st October 2006, 08:21 PM
But what damage does the electricity *do* to the metal, compared to what fire does?

Ever seen a fork after it gets struck by lightning? I have; trust me, electricity can damage metal. Also, machines can be overloaded and totally fried by EMP.


In any case, what is, is. It ain't changing.

Um, weren't Bug-types indifferent to Poison attacks in RBY? That changed. Who knows what the future holds?

Jeff
1st October 2006, 09:34 PM
Yeah, GSC saw a major overhaul of the type chart that went beyond the addition of steel and dark. Bug and poison were weak to each other in RBY, now they take normal damage from each other. Also psychic types were immune to ghost attacks in RBY. It doesn't seem the type chart will be different this generation, although it does need some adjustment (*cough poison).

Poryhedron
2nd October 2006, 01:49 PM
Actually, Bug-type attacks these days are ineffective against Poison-types. Also, in RBY Fire-types took standard damage from Ice, meaning Charizard and Moltres were weak against Ice.

I highly doubt the type chart will change again. The changes in GSC probably had more to do with RBY not being that high-quality a game quite yet, and some things still needed polishing.

rinku
2nd October 2006, 06:35 PM
Ever seen a fork after it gets struck by lightning? I have; trust me, electricity can damage metal. Also, machines can be overloaded and totally fried by EMP.

I didn't say electricity couldn't damage metal... but if the metal in question were hit with the same level of heat energy as a lightning bolt, I think it would be in far worse shape (i.e. your fork would probably be vapour or a puddle at best).

There has not been a change to the type chart since 2nd edition. It's highly unlikely they'll change it again unless they introduce new types; we already know what the adjustment to the metagame is for this generation - splitting attack type from Attack/Special Attack.

mr_pikachu
2nd October 2006, 06:38 PM
Quite true. On the other hand, the change you mentioned creates a drastic shift in the usefulness of certain Pokemon. It seems to me that the type chart might be edited to some extent in order to compensate.

SilverPersian
14th October 2006, 06:23 AM
Sigh...this game is going to get me all old and crotchety - remembering back in the day when there were no 'physical psychic' attacks or 'special normal' attacks....

If I have an electric attack that is physical - does it run off my special or my attack?

Poryhedron
14th October 2006, 01:26 PM
The definition of a physical attack is that it runs off your ATK, not your SAT. So Thunderbolt will run off SAT, but Thunderpunch will run off ATK.

And as far as crotchety goes, I'm already there. I kinda miss the days back in RBY when damage dealt and taken was affected by speed. You may not have noticed, but back in the original games, being hit by String Shot actually caused the victim's attacks to deal a bit less damage, and a Pikachu that spammed Double Teams was doubly protected because even if a Ground-type attack got through the horrendous miss chance, it would still deal a lot less damage than normal. I beat the Sandslash in the final rival battle with Pikachu several times that way.

rinku
15th October 2006, 07:01 PM
Quite true. On the other hand, the change you mentioned creates a drastic shift in the usefulness of certain Pokemon. It seems to me that the type chart might be edited to some extent in order to compensate.


Well, anything is possible, but it would be more likely they would fiddle with the base stats and (most likely) movelists of the pokémon in question than the element charts. They have added quite a few new moves like Giga Attack (in effect exactly the same as the old Hyper Beam) to cover pokémon who have lost their best attack. Scyther/Scizor, for example, now have much less use for Silver Wind, but have gained Scissor Attack, an 80 strength physical Bug move with 30% flinch.

I've yet to come across anything really screwed over by the new changes once their new moveset is taken into account, and many who have had their options expanded heaps (Cacturne have lots of good STAB options in both categories, for example, so you won't know what to expect initially...)

Crystalmaster Mike
16th October 2006, 04:05 AM
The definition of a physical attack is that it runs off your ATK, not your SAT. So Thunderbolt will run off SAT, but Thunderpunch will run off ATK.
Oh yeah, I hadn't thought about that yet. So in effect, definitions like "Special Type" and "Physical Type" Pokémon have no meaning anymore?
That's going to take some getting used to...


I kinda miss the days back in RBY when damage dealt and taken was affected by speed. You may not have noticed, but back in the original games, being hit by String Shot actually caused the victim's attacks to deal a bit less damage, and a Pikachu that spammed Double Teams was doubly protected because even if a Ground-type attack got through the horrendous miss chance, it would still deal a lot less damage than normal.
Really? Hm, don't remember ever noticing that. Maybe I really should take up that ol' Red copy again; it seems it can still hold for some decent fights if you put interest in looking for some. Though to be honest, as long as there are those 11-ty billion-plus Rare Candies (talk about an oxymoron there) in my backpack, any fight could be won (not taking into account any non-computer characters I might fight against in my game over a link cable, which are as little as 1...)

Jeff
16th October 2006, 01:57 PM
Actually, you can think of it now as a "Special" pokemon being one that has high SA, and a "Physical" pokemon having high attack. The thing that's going to be hard for me to get used to is pokemon that now get STAB moves that run off of their higher attacking stat, where they didn't or wouldn't have before. Like Gyarados and Waterfall, or Lefia and Leaf Blade, both have high attack but their types weren't attack types in past generations (even though Gyarados is part flying, but it still can't even get Aerial Ace)

Edit: Holy run-on sentence Batman!

SilverPersian
20th October 2006, 06:04 AM
Lol...I can't believe frikkin Rhydon gets an evolution. I can understand why the tangelas/lickitungs/yanmas of the work got an evo...but rhydon was sexy to being with. And I like that crazy ice/tree thing...but all the legendaries look a bit blah.

Pokemaster Ash
20th October 2006, 08:32 AM
Well some of these Legendaries are kinda blah, yeah. Gotta admit that Giradina and Darkrai look interesting, though. Sheimi and Manaphy are cute (though what the heck are they the Legendaries of?). Diaruga, Parukia, and Arseus look cool, though.

Also do you think it's possible Nintendo's pretty much run out of ideas? Most of this new batch are evos and pre-evos of old Pokémon, and most of the new ones are weird. Also I don't think you can beat Legendaries who manipulate time and space, plus either Giradina or Darkrai (or maybe both) have Darkness well under their control. And then there's Arseus, who we've all heard the jokes about... You think maybe 493 is where the 'Dex ends? (And then maybe the next batch of games will have more land and plot to worry about than more Pokémon... Still holding onto the dream of a Kanto/Johto/Hoenn/Shinou game where you get to go everywhere and catch everything...)

mr_pikachu
20th October 2006, 09:04 PM
Also do you think it's possible Nintendo's pretty much run out of ideas? Most of this new batch are evos and pre-evos of old Pokémon, and most of the new ones are weird. Also I don't think you can beat Legendaries who manipulate time and space, plus either Giradina or Darkrai (or maybe both) have Darkness well under their control. And then there's Arseus, who we've all heard the jokes about... You think maybe 493 is where the 'Dex ends? (And then maybe the next batch of games will have more land and plot to worry about than more Pokémon... Still holding onto the dream of a Kanto/Johto/Hoenn/Shinou game where you get to go everywhere and catch everything...)

I can't say that'd be a bad thing. My favorite thing about GSC, beyond even the coolness of night/day, new types, and the 1,001 other features, was the inclusion of both Johto and Kanto. Exploration is quite fun, and 500 may prove to be the line that nobody wants to cross in terms of working to "catch 'em all." I can maybe see one or two ideas competing with something that has power over time and space - consider a Pokemon that, for whatever reason, can bend reality to its will. (Or something like that.) But yeah, it does seem like their ideas as a whole are getting a little thin now. Maybe we'll be proven wrong, but...

Anyway, to summarize, all past regions in one game = very, very good. 'Nuff said.

frylock
22nd October 2006, 12:12 AM
I'm not sure where to put this, but I think all the new evos are a good thing. Think about it, of the original 386, there were about 100-150 fully evolved pokemon. Of those, there's really only about 30 or so being used in the metagame. It's all just Salamences and Blisseys, every freakin' team is practically identical. The metagame is boring. Nothing really hasn't been done before that's worth trying, and everyone's basically using the same team.
The new evos are giving better stats to previously UU pokemon, and the new moves/the attack split are giving pokemon better movepools. This makes more pokemon strong. Take Togetic. Togetic was cool, he had some pretty interesting moves, but his stats were too low. Now Togetic evolves. Rapidash had a higher attak than special attack. Now it learns Flare Drive, a nice physical fire attack. The pokemon/usable pokemon ratio is going to go way up.

Elekidkid
22nd October 2006, 02:26 PM
Yeah, it really is a nice balance issue. Although I always thought Magneton was pretty damned powerful before evolving. Now it gets another stage... seems almost like overkill.

Overall, these games have just been terribly unbalanced in the past. As has been stated, the metagame gets to the point where a person isn't building a team to try out new things, but is building a team with the intent of beating specific teams. If there was a better balance made, with all the Pokemon being relatively equal to one another, the game would expand its horizons so much. Especially with the advent of on-line play, the possibilities could be endless.

rinku
22nd October 2006, 06:38 PM
Also do you think it's possible Nintendo's pretty much run out of ideas? Most of this new batch are evos and pre-evos of old Pokémon, and most of the new ones are weird.

The numbers don't really back up this impression. There are 80 totally new pokémon (including the extra forms of Minomadamu) in 43 distinct evolution groups, with 5 pre-evolutions of previous types and 21 new evolutions of previous forms. 14 of the totally new ones are Legends, but even so there are more than twice as many new ones as reworked old ones - and in terms of "running out of ideas" Legends should count as much as breeding ones anyway.

And I'd also dispute that "most of the new ones are weird", even though that could be seen as a good thing. There are many repeats of common templates (Mukkuru does not really deviate from the Pidgey/Spearow/Swellow bird type, for example).

Darien Shields
23rd October 2006, 06:40 AM
I think you've always got a mixed bag with new pokémon. I'm very sure there are some idiots purists who think that the RBY pokémon are the best there have ever been, and that all designs since were terrible. (To those people I say: Tangela? Jynx? Magmar?) Personally, I think there will always be good pokémon in a new generation, and bad ones.

My pet peeve (well, one of my menagerie of peeves) with pokémon is Nintendo's insistance on some really stupid ideas. "Hey, you know what we should have in this game? More Normal/Flying and Normal types at the very start!" No, thanks, got at least four birds and as many rats/squirrels/raccoons as we need. That said, Mukuhawk is the most utterly awesome Normal/Flying type ever, that makes Pidgeot look like a clay pidgeon. Another thing I wish they'd drop is "Mud Pokémon are the best thing ever, lets make five more." ("Mud Type" = Water/Ground). It was okay when it was one or two, I didn't even mind a starter being one, but now there are enough of the damn things to make an entirely Water/Ground team. Plus, they're only weak to one type. And they still haven't made my Sand Castle Pokémon.

Goukazaru (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/G%C5%8Dkazaru_%28Pok%C3%A9mon%29) aka The Monkey King (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Wukong) is absolutely my favourite pokémon ever now, narrowly beating out Blaziken for the spot. Most people I've talked to really like the new starters, and personally I'd say they're the best so far, with then all looking pretty good from start to finish, and the type combos being a nice touch. You don't get as much of a fat-and-slow feeling with them as you did with previous starters at top tier (Blaziken being an exception, of course).

I think the number of legends is really too much. They seem to be addicted to cramming in progressively more legends with each game. Three Event Legends! And that's not counting all the old legends that would only be available from events. Baah! 'Tis no good I say!

But in general, the new pokémon are by and large good, and I've said before, I'm in favour of new evolutions and pre-evolutions.

Jeff
23rd October 2006, 12:43 PM
Yeah I noticed that about the legndarys too:
G1: Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Mewtwo, Mew: 5 total, 1 unobtainable (by normal means)
G2: Raikou, Entei, Suicune, Lugia, Ho-oh, Celebi: 6 total, 1 uo
G3: Reigis (3), Latis (2), Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Jirachi, Deoxys: 10 total, 2 uo
G4: Psychics (3), Diaruga, Parukia, Hiidoran, Regigigas, Giradina, Kureseria, Fione*, Manaphy, Darkrai, Sheimi, Aruseus: 14 (13 w/o Fione), 5 uo (4 w/o Fione)

It's really incredible, the number of legendarys just keeps going up, and 5 of them cannot be obtained by normal means, you either need to go to the promo event that's giving them out, breed Manaphy (for Fione), or try the glitch ;). But with this generation I guess it makes sense to have that many promo pokemon thanks to worldwide trading, it will be easier to get all of them. And to get the old legends there is always cross-gen trading Pal Park.