Sketch Question

[mr_pikachu]

Hey, I wanted to ask something about the way that Sketch works. Does the opponent's move have to be successful in order for Sketch to successfully copy it? If not, I had an idea for a moveset I wanted to test with Smeargle...


Smeargle @Leftovers
Skill Swap
Mind Reader/Lock On
Sheer Cold
Protect/Detect

(Strategy: Skill Swap for any Pokemon with Sturdy, then Mind Reader/Lock On and Sheer Cold for the win. Protect/Detect could help for recovery when Smeargle is weak, as it gives Leftovers time to work.)


Here's the problem. If the opponent's move has to be successful for Sketch to work, then it cannot learn OHKO moves. Whenever the attack would succeed, Smeargle would automatically be knocked out, no questions asked. Sketch would never have a chance to work! So does the move have to succeed for Sketch to copy it, or could a Lv. 77 Articuno theoretically have its Sheer Cold copied by a Lv. 78 Smeargle? (Or, for that matter, could it work if the attack missed outright, regardless of level?)

Just wondering. I think it'd be a fun combo to try, even if it isn't really feasible for competitive battling.

[Blademaster]

(singing very poorly)

Wikipedia, you are my beeeeeest friend... ;)

Quoted from Wikipedia: "There are a few attacks Sketch cannot copy (Struggle, Metronome, Transform, Mimic, and Mirror Move). Otherwise Sketch enables Smeargle to learn almost every attack in the game, making it the most versatile of all Pokémon (apart from Mew) and extremely useful in passing down unconventional attacks to other Pokémon through the process of crossbreeding."

And...

"The "Sketch" move gives it the opportunity to use one of the most coveted combos in Pokémon: Spore, Lock On/Mind Reader and Sheer Cold. Spore will put the enemy to sleep with 100% accuracy, after which Lock On or Mind Reader will make Sheer Cold next turn 100% accurate, granting an automatic One-Hit Knock-Out. However if the opponent switches after Lock On/Mind Reader the One-Hit Knock-Out move is no longer a guaranteed hit. Smeargle can sketch either of the trapping moves (prevents the opponent from switching) Mean Look or Spider Web (preferred) to avoid this though."

So, I'd say no - even if the move is unsuccessful, it was still used and therefore can be Sketched.

[Shadow Wolf]

Just in case, I will add this battle with a wild Smeargle:

Wild Smeargle appeared!
Go! Kyorge!
Kyogre's Drizzle made it rain!
Kyogre used Sheer Cold!
Kyogre's attack missed!
Wild Smeargle used Sketch!
Wild Smeargle Sketched Sheer Cold!
Syd used Ultra Ball!
Aargh! Almost had it!
Wild Smeargle used Sheer Cold!
Kyogre is unaffected!
Syd used Ultra Ball!
Gotcha! Smeargle was caught!

In conclusion, as long as the attack miss, Smeargle can learn OHKO moves.

[TKnHappyNess]

The easy way to get them is in a Double Battle. Just let your partner use the move you want to Sketch, and then copy the move they use. It's not guaranteed if Smeargle's faster than the one with the move you want. That's how I got mine with Spore, Mind Reader, Horn Drill, and Sheer Cold.

[mr_pikachu]

Oh, wow, I didn't even consider Spore, or double battles for that matter... so, I wonder what the feasibility of this moveset would be?


Smeargle @Quick Claw (?)
Spore
Spider Web
Lock On
Sheer Cold


The tactical issue may be difficult... maybe Spider Web needs to precede Spore, or else the opponent can switch out as soon as Spore hits. (What trainer in their right mind would leave a Pokemon as a sitting duck against a Smeargle with this possible moveset?)

Then again, would it be worth it to Spore first? If a switch comes, you're already using Spider Web, so the new Pokemon is trapped... then you can Spore again (possibly taking a hit in the process) and go ahead with the Lock On/Sheer Cold combo.

Again, the main issue is surviving the hits that come before you perform the OHKO. But is this feasible? Could it be legitimately used in tournament competition? Hmm... Maybe I should do some testing.

[Phoenixsong]

First of all, that Wikipedia article isn't 100% correct; Spore only has an accuracy of 85%. That is, however, 10% better than Sleep Powder and FAR superior to Sing/Grasswhistle, both of which only have 55% accuracy. The only sleep move with 100% accuracy is Yawn, but that one gives the opponent time to a) switch out, or b) get rid of Smeargle in the one turn of downtime before Yawn kicks in. So, yeah, Spore is the best option, just don't expect it to hit every single time.

...I have battled a Smeargle with Sheer Cold, anyway, so I can attest to its ability to learn the move. TKnHappyNess was right when he suggested the Double Battle, too... that's a lot less risky than hoping that Smeargle doesn't take the hit.

About the Smeargle I battled: your suggested moveset is one way of looking at it. Another way that works effectively is the one my opponent used.

Smeargle @ Salac Berry
Jolly/Timid Nature
-Spore
-Mind Reader/Lock-On
-Endure
-Sheer Cold

Your opponent obviously wants to KO Smeargle before it can Spore, and even though its Speed stat is its best it's still easily outclassed by plenty of Pokemon. Use that to your advantage and Endure as your first move; since even minor attacks from a competitive battler can mow Smeargle flat, it'll be left with the 1 HP. The Salac Berry kicks in, practically guaranteeing that Smeargle will go first when it uses Spore next round. So either their (now slower) Pokemon takes the hit, or they can switch something else into the Spore. Lock-On/Mind Reader on the next turn, and then move in for the OHKO on the fourth turn.

While your Spider Web strategy ensures that they can't switch out of a Lock-On, it also leaves Smeargle screwed if the opponent wakes up or can get in a quick hit... and it's fairly risky to rely on that Quick Claw; you're almost better off leaving it with Leftovers with that moveset. Endure/Salac ensures that Smeargle WILL be fast enough to Spore before he gets KO'd, but leaves them more room for switching. It's all a matter of preference; would you prefer accuracy with a chance of Smear getting KO'd, or Speed with a chance of them switching out?

...But yeah. There's my two cents. Hope this helps.

*frowns at Wikipedia* Smeargle IS more versatile than Mew; it can learn almost every single attack in the game. Mew is restricted to TMs, HMs and Move Tutor moves... it just has FAR superior stats, is all.

[mr_pikachu]

Huh... I've heard from several sources that Spore has 100% accuracy. Where did you hear that it was only 85%?

[Poryhedron]

Um, yeah, it's a well-known and repeatedly verified fact that Spore has 100% accuracy. That's why it's so coveted and why only two pokéfamilies can ever learn it aside from Smeargle.

[Phoenixsong]

Ah... sorry. I could have sworn I'd read somewhere that it was 85%... ah, well. I never use anything that knows Spore, so I wouldn't know first hand. I thought it said so in my Emerald guidebook, but I must have misread it.

[mr_pikachu]

No, you probably read it perfectly. But as a rule, don't trust those guidebooks. I don't know if I've found a single one that's been anywhere close to 100% accurate. More often than not, they've got inaccuracies all over the place.