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Chris 2.1
8th August 2007, 10:57 AM
Are Diamond and Pearl good games in the Pokemon Franchise? I haven't got a DS but with Animal Crossing, Mario Kart and Pokemon to name just three I think there are plenty of games I'd like to get my hands on.

What are the perks? What doesn't work well? Is it a big move from RSE or not so much? I'd love to know what everyone thinks.

Blademaster
8th August 2007, 12:30 PM
DP was a major disappointment to me. Wi-Fi and Wireless and the Underground and all that were great, but the main game was long, repititious, had virtually no order, and just overall felt stale. The idea's been done to death - Gyms + Team whoever + the Legendary rotation...

This game was nothing more than a used car with poor mileage and a laser cannon mounted on it - it looks cool, and there's a sense of familiarity to it, but soon enough you realize it's just the same old slow piece of crap with a fancy new feature tacked on to make it look less unimpressive.

RattataGuy
8th August 2007, 12:52 PM
DP was a major disappointment to me. Wi-Fi and Wireless and the Underground and all that were great, but the main game was long, repititious, had virtually no order, and just overall felt stale. The idea's been done to death - Gyms + Team whoever + the Legendary rotation...

This game was nothing more than a used car with poor mileage and a laser cannon mounted on it - it looks cool, and there's a sense of familiarity to it, but soon enough you realize it's just the same old slow piece of crap with a fancy new feature tacked on to make it look less unimpressive.
No offense, but just exactly what were you looking for in a new Pokemon game? If it's one thing we all know by now it's that there's never much change from the overall pattern. Each generation overwhelming sticks to the familiar, which admittedly, is unfortunate. But we're pokemon fans, you'd think we'd learn to accept the pattern and see past it for the other goodies that Nintendo has graced us with.

I really liked the new additions to the game mechanics, and it seems that they're giving us more and more information regarding the "unseen" aspects of pokemon growth. The new contests really felt weak, especially since the changes were stupidly arbitrary. Berry farming was made fun and productive, though some of the berries have really specific uses and so really you wouldn't need more than one or two.

The (re)addition of the passage of time was helpful. But they didn't use it as creatively as in GenII in my opinion. No Weekday Kids, no Shoal Cave... just a handful of events that get reset every day. Also the selection of pokemon available at the various times didn't seem to differ much to me.

The WiFi stuff was interesting, but if Nintendo is going to continue to market pokemon in the US they are going to have to realize that we aren't as caught up with Japan in connectivity yet. Things that were local wifi-only could have been made to use Nintendo WFC. And we all have gripes about friend codes... Ugh and N's really got a get a grip about controlling the global trading center... seeing too many "common pokemon for super rare legendaries" - most of which are obviously hacked - trade requests has almost turned me off.

The story's been done before - Gyms + Teams + Mascots - so I didn't expect too much.

All in all, DP is a good thing for the Pokemon franchise. (Now if only I could trust Genius Sonority for a good 3D game. Nintendo should really bring back HAL to work on any other Wii games - or hopeful MMOs. As much as I did enjoy the Cube games, the Stadium games just had a vitality that hasn't really been matched anywhere.

Andrew
8th August 2007, 06:37 PM
I played RSE and FR LG all over again and found those rather dissapointing. I'm up to the 6th Gym now in Pearl and it's good. BUT I want to play with my favourites, and restricting those has made it very difficult to play. Enjoyment wise.

I have a Misdreavus and a Haunter on my team... That is all :S It's sad when Psybeam is the ONLY attack I'm packing. Apart from Curse.

Chris 2.1
8th August 2007, 06:46 PM
So is it like Gen 3 in that new Pokemon are quite common and old favourites are not? I was of the impression after looking on websites that most the original Pokemon were found in the wild.

AdventureSerum
8th August 2007, 09:26 PM
Well, I'm happy with D/P in the fact that I can not only contact faraway friends with it, but trade with people all over the world. ALL OVER THE WORLD! That notion alone made it seem worth it to me. Why, there's even a few not ridiculous trade deals out there. And, you can see other people's shinies *drool* up for trade. I didn't like how the contests only had one location, but I never really got into the contests anyway. I did like how they added a bit more personality to the Pokemon than 'modest' or 'quirky' though, even if the two traits don't always match up. At first I didn't like the semi-3D graphics, but I really warmed up to them after a while. I for one felt it was too short. Is it just me, or are the continents added to the game getting smaller?

Zallarion
9th August 2007, 07:52 AM
I agree with Blademaster, i mean c'mon..
There are like 30 legendary pokemon..
And with the previous pokemon games i felt connected with the pokemon..
but now the strarters are..:

A monkey caught on fire..
A penguin..
And a turtle with fungi on his shell..

These pokemon aren't original anymore.. i don't feel connected..
and don't let me begin criticicing the names..

I can't say it's ripped of but it's is the worst pokemon game i ever played..
and i've played them al..

Drago
9th August 2007, 08:40 AM
I can't say it's ripped of but it's is the worst pokemon game i ever played..
and i've played them al..
http://www.xbox-modchips.com/nintendo-ds/pokemon-dash-big.jpg
Come a little closer and say that...

lol anyway, I've just beaten the Elite 4 after a little over a month of fairly solid play, and I have to say I'm pretty positive. Yes it's the same formula, yes it's been done to death, but to effectively open up your Pokemon world internationally is certainly a grand feeling.

That being said, if you're only looking for something new you wouldn't have come back to the Pokemon franchise anyway. We all want new stuff and deserve new stuff, but what we started with nearly a decade ago was a pretty solid formula to keep rehashing.

I fully understand the disappointment some of us have felt, but I don't share in it. Perhaps when the shiny new feel of wi-fi wears off, or when I get sick of the amount of people asking for Jirachi in exchange for their Bidoof...

Toxicity
9th August 2007, 04:58 PM
On the note of crappy trade offers over the GTS...

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=235

A guest comic based off of the works of the wonderful Scott Ramsoomair unfortunately speaks the truth, warning for those who haven't played Diamond and Pearl.

We've kept true to the series for over 10 years now. We willing bought and sat through playing through numerous cliche-filled spin-offs. If it makes Game Freak money, what makes you think they're going to change the game formula completely and mold it into something else?

Of course, like many here, I was a little disappointed with many things about the game, myself - the fact that it would take 40+ hours of gameplay to actually beat the Elite 4 this time around scared me, when back in the glory days of the first two generations, you could become the hero in an easy gameplay of 12 hours. Of course, I could rant about how it wouldn't be an easy change for the younger fans of the series, but I won't for the sake of keeping a short post.

I'll admit things were bad and good - the way battles worked kind of took a turn for the better (physical/special), and at the same time for the worse. (Surf in double battles...) The graphics got a little better. The gameplay is somewhat tiring, especially if your favorites weren't available until after you get the National Dex, which in a way would require battling virtually every NPC trainer. The music was seemingly the only thing that saved the game at points...

And the starters, as well as lack of originality in many of the new Pokemon introduced were painful. It seemed like a test of knowledge that would require training others than the starter, which I didn't mind, but the way it was designed was for everybody to pick Chimchar, or you were screwed - especially for those playing Pearl. As in, Diamond at least provided you with Skuntank, who could learn Flamethrower right after evolution; but in Pearl, the only option you were really left with was Rapidash.

But in a way, I was at least somewhat satisfied, as much as I loathed the gameplay. It seemed like in a few cases there were many ideas left for the fanfic writers to work with, especially considering the true introduction of "religion" in the Pokemon world with this game. Of course, that may just be my thought, but I could see a lot of writers break out beyond overdone cliches the mold in the game, and make something great.

...and now I want to start trying to write again.

classy_cat18
9th August 2007, 05:27 PM
Well, I'm satisfied with it. Especially after the pain of Pokemon Ranger. (I am not playing that game just to get Manaphy!)

The new enviroment was a refreshing change, especially with 3D-like graphics. The Sweet Honey Trees gave me a reason to pick up the game regularly in order to find some Pokemon. Yay, Heracross!

Although the game was a little boring and tedious at times, it was worth it just to see the evolutions of some of the Pokemon. Piplup may look cliche, but Empoleon rocks!

I don't do contests so I can't complain about them. The number of legendaries is a little high but at least encountering most of them is more optional than before. And I've actually made a few good trades at the GTS and I have the Underground to thank for that.

Chris 2.1
30th August 2007, 08:45 PM
Toxicity that comic is absolutely HILARIOUS. Does he do any other Pokemon spoofs?

mr_pikachu
30th August 2007, 09:06 PM
In a word, yes. And some of them are even better. VG Cats rocks. ^_^

As weird as it sounds, the hardest thing for me has been getting used to the stylus. I tend to crawl into bed and play for about a half-hour to try to lull myself into sleep. But the stylus makes that a tricky thing sometimes. Another slight irritation is the movement speed; for some reason that seems significantly slower. Then again, it could just be an illusion from the psuedo-3D graphics... I dunno.

The best thing, besides the obvious addition of Wi-Fi... I've gotta say, I like the expanded map. It makes speedruns a little more difficult, sure, but I think it'll add to the value for people who get both Diamond and Pearl. As well as, um... Quartz. Yeah, just throwing that out there.

...It is too a valuable gemstone! I'm appalled at your lack of fashion sense. *scoffs*

Phoenixsong
30th August 2007, 09:44 PM
Ahem.

I know I don't really care for Chimchar's actual design any more than most people. But I have to say it.

Chimchar's line and Turtwig's line are not unoriginal. They are not random animals with flames or vegetation slapped on them for no reason. Chimchar's line is based on the Hindu/Buddhist/Chinese/Japanese legends of the monkey king Hanuman/Sun Wukong/Son Goku (yes, that is where DB's Goku's name comes from). Hanuman, in addition to having numerous incendiary encounters, was a loyal companion, a brave warrior and a clever trickster. Why the heck do you think monkeys are so revered in Asia? Infernape is literally a frickin' GOD. They took a piece of mythology that not much of the Western world was aware of and made a Pokémon out of it. Which, IMO, is one of the better ways to handle things. (As opposed to Probopass, but we'll let Mr. Potato-Mario-Borat-Head slide for now.)

The same applies to Turtwig's line. Ever heard of a monster called an aspidochelone? Probably not, at least not by that name. Those are gigantic turtles with entire islands on their backs. They're sea turtles, of course, so the more direct influence for the line (and probably the better-known of the two possibilities) is the legends of the World Turtle. It may have appeared in other mythologies as well, but I know that Hindu mythology states that the world sits on (among other things that come before it) the back of a giant turtle. Terry Pratchett used a similar idea in his Discworld novels, and if you diss Terry Pratchett then you obviously fail and must die. XD No, not really. But, I dunno, maybe if people actually took the time to really look at the influences used when creating Pokémon instead of dissing them right off the bat, it might help or something. (Won't really help if you don't like the way they look, but I guarantee you Nintendo did NOT slap fire on a monkey's ass just because they could. Give them a break.)

Piplup, I think, was just an excuse for the lame and yet not-lame Napoleon pun. I have yet to figure out what other sort of interesting thing Empoleon might be, if anything. We'll see.

...Ahem. Yes. Being a mythology addict helps when looking at the origins of Pokémon. And, since I am a bit of a mythology buff and a fantasy author, I have to say that I personally love all of the new legendaries. People complain that they're overpowered and only n00bs use them, but with careful use of Wi-Fi and organized groups like the one here at TPM, you can, you know, prevent that. So there's no reason to whine about it when nobody's forcing you to fight them. Legendary Pokémon add more of a depth and a history to the world. Egh. But I suppose that's just something that non-writers/fantasy freaks can't appreciate as much.

Enough ranting about the people who knock stuff for fairly unfounded reasons (I don't mean to pick on anyone here in particular, but I've been getting into this debate A LOT lately and I'm beginning to tire of it). Anyway. Yes, the gameplay was fairly stale, but I stopped playing Pokémon for the story about halfway through GSC anyway. Again, maybe it's just the fanwork-lover in me, but I'd rather use what they give me as a springboard and make my own fun out of it. That doesn't require anything drastically new ( main story-wise) on their part. I only play for the battles and such, really, and in general that has vastly improved in DP. So, yes. If you're okay with the static story (and, sad and addicted as it sounds, you should be if you've stuck with the series this long), then I'd consider DP worth it.

Negrek
30th August 2007, 10:01 PM
(As opposed to Probopass, but we'll let Mr. Potato-Mario-Borat-Head slide for now.)
Are you hating on Mr. Moai (w/Pukau) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Ahu_Tahai.jpg/180px-Ahu_Tahai.jpg)?

Phoenixsong
30th August 2007, 10:46 PM
Yes, I know it's a moai statue. That wasn't worded correctly, no.

...It still looks like Borat.

Negrek
31st August 2007, 01:00 AM
...It still looks like Borat.
And chimchar still looks like a monkey whose butt is on fire.

(For the record, I think that probopass looks incredibly stupid. =/)

Phoenixsong
31st August 2007, 03:32 PM
I didn't deny that, I just said there was a reason for it. Most people seem to imply that it has fire on its butt just because it can. That's not quite the case.

Negrek
31st August 2007, 03:55 PM
And most people seem to imply that probopass is nosepass wearing a hat just because it can, rather than because it's consistent with the way that some Moai were constructed, possibly indicating the status of chief. I'm just saying that, by really looking at the influence behind probopass' design, it is more than just Borat wearing a hat. Since you called it out specifically as being against good design principles in your rant.

Crystalmaster Mike
3rd September 2007, 03:28 PM
Well, the first few hours playing the game, I actually disliked the 3-D aspect, because it seemed weird compared to what I always knew in past Pokémon games. I mean, there now is a hidden entrance to a cave (the Wayward one) you can't see because a certain Cycling Road was built above it, and I'm often worried that instead of saving one tile above the spot a trainer can see me, I'll step to far because they've shrunk the size of a basic tile.

But then again, now the Pokémon world seems bigger. My brother started up Sapphire and FireRed the other day, and boy, the Pokémon Center seemed small.

The thing I like is that now, ALL ATTACKS AREN'T ALL CAPS ANYMORE like they used to be (you know: DoubleSlap instead of DOUBLESLAP...). But the 25th Pokémon is still called PIKACHU instead of Pikachu. Luckily, nicknames can solve that problem. (I've been nicknaming virtually all of my Pokémon this time round for a change.)

In response to the Web-Comic posted: I actually dislike Bibarel more than Bidoof, probably because I've run into it far more times than wanted, or even recommended. But Normal/Water still is... an interesting new variety of type combo, I suppose.

The "all-new, improved" evolutions of a lot of old Pokémon will probably have been welcomed by those who like the Pokémon, but I think they went overboard a little. I mean, some Pokémon really aren't that impressive, more like their prevo with some random item smacked onto them. Like Rhyperior, a new addition to an evolutionary line I really like.
Then again, we had these kind of Pokémon since Day One (still do: Bidoof-Bibarel is like the new Slowpoke-Slowbro in overall evolutionary "changes" in appearance). And I've nothing against such new evos like Porygon-Z and Weavile, because they don't appear like "evolutions just to receive yet another 3-stage Pokémon evolutionary line".

Well, I like the games, though the "hidden" items should have been more worth finding. (I mean, Elixir x10? And how many Ultra Balls haven't I picked up yet?!) And the games seems rather fast to play out actually: atleast RSE had a lot of sidequests, what with the Regis and all those hidden parts on the map to find items in.
Team Galactic didn't seem so threatening all in all, more like posers, because the Grunts admitted themselves they hadn't a clue what the idea behind their team was.

In conclusion: what I regret is that the appearance of these games means the chance I'll ever replay Red or Silver [or Ruby (which currently saved games still holds an original ticket to Southern Island, btw) or LeafGreen] has diminished yet again. Alas!

Phoenixsong
3rd September 2007, 03:37 PM
...And I admitted that I'd worded it incorrectly. I entirely acknowledge that it's just my personal opinion that it resembles Borat and is sinfully ugly, and I did not mean to be a hypocrite and involve that in my argument... oh, nevermind.

Um. Yeah. Everything in proper case would have been preferable to keeping the Pokémon names in all caps, yeah, but... um... I forget what I was going to say, but in case you were curious, Dragonfree's got this nice list of all the changes (http://www.dragonflycave.com/dpchanges.aspx). In the event that these mostly little things might influence your decision, I dunno. Uh... yeah... trying to type coherently after watching my first-ever episode of the X-Files (it's for school! No, really!) doesn't exactly work... never... mind. Eh.

DarkestLight
3rd September 2007, 06:42 PM
First episode of X-Files ever Phoenix >>

God dammit that's blasphemous, and you call yourself a mythological buff! You sit down right NOW and watch all 9 seasons...

well no, just the first 5-and select episodes in Season 6-after that until 3/4ths through Season 9, they were just running stupid cannon fodder.

Phoenixsong
3rd September 2007, 06:50 PM
I didn't know, okay?! Don't hurt me. Seriously, I had no idea what the whole thing was about until my professor kinda explained it. And now I have to watch X-Files or I phail with a capital F. No really, it's course material. Why don't you belieeeeeve me?

More on topic, I dunno how many people have gone into detail about Wi-Fi and all that (provided you have access)... too lazy to check, lol. But it's great. Just watch out for the GTS; idiots, cheaters and even bigger idiots abound. You'll get very frustrated very quickly. Just remember that the only reason you can't find intelligent trades is because the smart people have already snapped them up. Set up your own fair trades instead of looking for others, and you'll be fine. Um. If you do decide to get DP. My no know.

DarkestLight
4th September 2007, 06:32 PM
..What class is this that you NEED to watch X-Files. I wanna enroll in it just so I can say I took a class like that!

Crystalmaster Mike
5th September 2007, 03:44 AM
In response to what was said about WiFi:

There should be some sort of list with all the requirements for the router to support the DS connecting to the internet.

I got as far as having my router say the NDS got an IP assigned, with the NDS at the same time claiming to be unable to recieve a valid IP. --''