Euthanasia Topic

[Andrew]

Well, I feel particularly argumentative.

Where does TPM stand on Euthanasia?

I believe in euthanasia for persons suffering from a terminal condition and think it is inhumane to make them suffer till the end. As long as they are in a correct state of mind, who are we to prolong their suffering?

Also - Anyone who is not an Admin/Supermod/Misc Mod who makes more than 1 quote per reply will get a warning.

Thank you.

[Zak]

Wow Andy, you're on a roll today!

Mind if I add a poll?

I would say that it depends what the condition is. If it's something that end in a nasty painful way, then yes. Some terminal conditions end with you going to sleep and not waking up, so it would probably be best to leave that sort of situation be.

[Heald]

What's with all the threads? After the election thread, I thought you'd be happy there were no more potential hot-spots.

Or are you purposely trying to make my life as difficult as possible?

Euthanasia - first of all, the person who wants to die needs to be in a fit enough state to say so, or at least expressed a written request (e.g. in a will or similar) that should he become incapacitated and unable to ever recover, that the plug should be pulled.

I'm not sure why so many governments are against it. If people want to die in a calm, orderly, clean fashion, why not let them? Instead people just go and rent a hotel room and hang themselves or blow their brains out, leaving a mess. Apart from the moral qualms, are there any concerns that people may use euthanasia as a cover for murder? Like someone who wanted the contents of someone's will convinces them to die or a murder is covered up by euthanasia and pay off the post-mortem doctor to say so? I never really thought about it until now, but I suppose those are concerns.

[PancaKe]

Gosh Andrew you're on a roll today. Haha so many controversial topics.

So seeing as I didn't know a single thing really about euthanasia, except for that one episode on South Park where (was it Kyle's) grandad kept trying to kill himself, then decided to move to Africa and get eaten by a lion, I looked it up on wiki.

I don't really know where I stand. I mean, I believe (as i've said before) that it's not our right to decide when and how a life should end, regardless of whether it be ours or someone elses. And I guess that applies to this topic. It might seem harsh, but we don't know what the future holds, so we can't really make a well informed decision without that knowledge.

But I don't know enough about it to really add anything else.

[Andrew]

Please do, Zak. I tried to, but I failed :(

I also enjoy debating these moral questions. I find I fall more on the personal side of these things.

Also, Tara, please see this lady. http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-03-19-cancer-euthanasia_N.htm

[PancaKe]

I checked it out. Such a sad story.

Although it reminded me of something I learnt the other day at the hospital. I was reading this thing that my boyfriend's Dad got - he's undergoing testing for cancer - and it had a list of things on the back that he wasn't allowed to do for like 48 hours, such as eat, drive, and make important decisions.

Then my dad was telling me bout how if you go through a divorce, or some major trauma, they (i'm not sure who they is, psychiatrists? doctors?) will advise you not to make any major decisions for at least a year or so, because you're not thinking right etc.

I think euthanasia is a pretty big decision. But like, taking that not making important decisions thing into consideration, how does that work? Wouldn't people be in such a state of mind that they're not thinking clearly enough etc to decide properly whether they want to live or die? I don't know. Just throwing it out there.

[Clark]

People will die no matter what. People die everyday for eternity. I'm not for or against it.
I just think we should just stick to God's plan. If God wants us to intervene and be killed, so be it. If not, he will do it another time.

[MToolen]

Discerning God's will is difficult, though. He may never change, but every situation is different and, if you're so inclined, prayer is an important step in decision making.

Maybe I'm just disillusioned from watching too much House, but I think that, with advances in medicine these days, most diseases are curable. There's always a chance someone who's sick could get better. I agree with PancaKe in saying that, without that knowledge, it's hard to make an informed decision on the matter.

[mistysakura]

I firmly believe in the right to euthanasia. And suicide. I believe in a person's right to choose to die with dignity. I understand about moral qualms in the abortion topic, since the person choosing to abort the foetus isn't the foetus itself, and might not have the rights to speak for it. But we should have rights over our own bodies, and if we wish to die, so be it. Some in this thread have argued that we don't have sufficient information to decide when we should die -- but does this mean that we shouldn't be allowed the right? We will never have "enough information" for any decision we make. If we choose to marry, is it with the sure knowledge that we'll live happily ever after? Every time we cross the road, do we know that some maniac won't run us over? With every decision comes a risk, but that doesn't mean we should back away from decisions. I would rather weigh up the pros and cons of my life myself than leeave it up to chance. I trust myself, at least, to know better than chance.

The icky bits of it are that people may feel pressure to die if they feel they are a burden, and people might not be mentally capable of deciding to die. That I'll leave up to legislation. Every law has icky bits, but we should still fight for the rights behind the laws as much as possible.

[Drago]

I firmly believe in the right to euthanasia. And suicide.
Hello. There's a curious little statement you didn't really follow up on? Are you suggesting that you are for a person's right to end their life if they are suffering from stress or depression? Or is this just with regards to people suffering a terminal illness? Because if it's the former, I'd have to say that I strongly disagree with you - suicide should never be used as an escape from life.

That being said, I'm for euthanasia, as long as it is in the scenario that Heald outlined; that the person be capable of making that decision themself, or having expressed written intent. I personally would not want to suffer a slow painful death, or spend the rest of my life in an unaware, brain damaged state.

[Blademaster]

I firmly believe in the right to euthanasia. And suicide. I believe in a person's right to choose to die with dignity.

...Uhhhh...

MOVING ON.

I support euthenasia. People that're sick enough to wanna check out early make sense. It's like the abortion topic: If you have a valid reason, then I'm fine with it.

And no, 'lol forgot condim' and 'Linkin Park broke up...' are NOT valid reasons.

[shazza]

Those who are suffering from a terminal illness and are in a fit state to give consent to die should be given that right. Fact. It is wrong to prolong the inevitable and the suffering. Reforms in numerous countries need to be undertaken in this area; the sooner the better.

[mistysakura]

Obviously, suicide isn't ever an ideal option. that's why suicide hotlines, counselling services, services for mental illness, and obviously the support of family and friends is so important. People obviously shouldn't kill themselves because Linkin Park broke up. But I don't think it's immoral. I only classify actions as "immoral" if they constitute harm to another person. For me, anything you do to yourself is fair game -- it's your body. Some of you will have different standards, which is cool with me too.

Blademaster: Yeah, I support the right to die with dignity, as euthanasia advocates say, but I also support the right to die by not necessarily dignified means, if the person so wishes. I don't see a contradiction. *shrug*

[MToolen]

Suicide, as far as I can tell, can harm someone else. Has someone you know committed suicide? To be honest, I don't but I know people who do. They've told me that it feels terrible to hear that, especially in the case of family. They've said it's like being told the person would rather die than be related to you. I just think that you can't do something just for yourself; it always affects more than just you.

[Blademaster]

Blademaster: Yeah, I support the right to die with dignity, as euthanasia advocates say, but I also support the right to die by not necessarily dignified means, if the person so wishes. I don't see a contradiction. *shrug*

The contradiction is that you're making it sound like suicide is dignified. If that's not what you meant, then I apologize for the miscommunication.

However, if that is what you meant, it's wrong. It's impossible to be dignified while you're doing the most cowardly thing our world knows.

[mistysakura]

No, I don't mean that suicide is dignified. I mean that euthanasia is dignified and suicide is not but I support the right to be a coward as well as the right to be dignified.

MToolen: Indeed, death doesn't only affect oneself. I don't know anyone who has committed suicide, but I know firneds who know people who have committed suicide, and they tell me that it's the worst news that anyone can hear. I feel great pain for them. So suicide is a selfish action. But if one is comtemplating suicide, I imagine that their personal pain would overwhelm consideration of others, and it's not my place to condemn that.

[Dark-San]

I'm for Euthanasia. For anyone against it, just put yourself in the shoes of the victim.

Imagine you are a frail old lady/man easily in your eighties. You are in the last stage of a terminal cancer. The only thing that kept you living is the drugs that the doctors injected into your body in a daily basis. But the pain is too much for you, day after day your body would screamed in pain. You are at your limit. What possible solution is there other than death? Would you be in a state of mind of even think about living in that torturous bodily conditions?

I would ultimately choose death. But then, the only things withholding the legalization of it would be the fact on whether if the doctors are liable for criminal prosecutions or are the patients themselves guilty of suicide. My attitude towards these things would be to screw it. Why on earth would we even make things more difficult for ourselves? People are preaching to die to relieve them of their suffering as we are arguing on these very minor details?


People will die no matter what. People die everyday for eternity. I'm not for or against it.
I just think we should just stick to God's plan. If God wants us to intervene and be killed, so be it. If not, he will do it another time.

Well, this is a tricky question. It is along the same context as to the question on whether a heavenly being does actually exist. I am not going to discuss much about this one but we should do only what is best we would considered for this realm instead of having to think whether these doctors or patients would go to hell if they do such things.

[RedStarWarrior]

I believe in euthanasia. If someone wants to die, it's his or her choice.

[Zak]

The problem is, death is over exaggerated, and the law makes you obliged to stop it. Like if you're around when someone commits suicide it's like you killed them, or if you try to stop them and fail then it's still like you killed them.

It would all come down to the suffering factor having to take priority over death. But that would imply that if someone caught an illness that caused them to endure physical suffering for the rest of their life without a cure, but WASN'T terminal, then it would be allowed? I'd say no.