Non-Christmas thread

[Lady Vulpix]

Because if there's a thread for Christmas, I think it's fair to have one for those who don't celebrate it. After all, we have to put up with Christmas decorations, Christmas sales and talk about Christmas just about everywhere. So enough of that.

I'd like to know how many people (besides me) don't celebrate it, whether they celebrate anything this month (and how), how they deal with people who don't believe people like us exist or who discriminate against us and, generally, what their thoughts are.

If you do celebrate Christmas and want to post your thoughts here or ask questions, feel free to do so, but remember this thread is about people who don't celebrate Christmas. If you want to talk about your preparations or traditions for that particular holiday, do it in Heald's thread.

And (saying this should be unnecessary, but just to be safe) no flames, please.

[Heald]

I'd be quite interested to learn what you people do south of the border, LV.

[Lady Vulpix]

Oh, most people do celebrate Christmas. If you're interested, I ca describe what they do to my best knowledge in your thread.

My family does not celebrate it because we're Jewish. We light candles for Hanukah sometimes, but that's all we do. After all, Hanukah's not a big holiday, I don't think many would remember it if it wasn't in December.

We do celebrate New Year. I spend New Year's eve at my dad's house on odd years and at my uncle's restaurant on even years, so I celebrate with one side of my family each time.

As for people who don't know there are non-Christians around or people who don't know that Christmas is a Christian festivity, they tend to startle me, but I often end up spending a long time explaining things to them. More than one interesting debate has emerged from that.

[Zak]

Well, if you read the other thread, I think the purpose you intended for it was fulfilled in it, because the questions were for everyone, not just Christmas celebrators, so it served that purpose. He was discussing the commercialism and stuff and how you feel about it, etc. which is pretty much the same as what you're asking here.

Yadda yadda yadda... I don't celebrate it, insert same post here.

EDIT: Well, here it is if anyone wants to respond to it:


A little early are we eh?

1. Have you started Christmas Shopping yet?
Even though I don't do it, I probably will be shopping a lot this year cause I'm gonna be away on vacation in Israel, I might get something for my Christian/Christmas-celebrating friends while I'm there.

2. What's on your wish-list?
Well, since September, tickets to fly there have been on my wish list since a lot of my friends are going there around that time. I had to pull a lot of strings in order to get them but thankfully I'm leaving on the 23rd. So pumped.

3. Is Christmas losing its spirit to crass commercialism or multiculturalism and the political-correctness brigade?
I haven't really noticed much of a difference, the whole religious political correct thing has never been an issue, I mean, the holiday season in the states wouldn't be the same without the lights and the windows and the stuff downtown and whatnot, even for those who don't celebrate.
Also it's funny how here Hannukah gets the most attention when it's barely even a major Jewish holiday, it just happens to be around the same time as Christmas and that's why most non-Jews know about it. In Israel, for instance, where our holidays are actually commercialized in the same way that Christmas/Halloween/Easter/Thanksgiving are here, it's all about Passover, LB, and Purim. Hannukah is also a bit, but not nearly as much as certain other holidays. The one thing I can think of that it actually has in common with Christmas besides the time is that it's got the most songs associated with it.

But one thing I will add that I didn't mention here... New Years, we do celebrate that. But in Israel since there's the Jewish new year Rosh Hashanah (which basically translates to New Year), they DO celebrate the English New Year as well (kinda hard not to when calendars still rely on it sometimes), except they call it "Sylvester". Don't ask why... I have no idea, someone else might.

[Fett One]

Zax, I did a little research and discovered that the following is the reason why New Years is called "Sylvester" (this is copied directly from the site):

"It's just because Israel is a Jewish state. The [Jewish] new year holiday is celebrated on the eve of Tishrei 1st. People who immigrated to Israel from western countries still wanted to celebrate the "old" new year, like at home, but could not say that they were celebrating the new year so they used instead the Catholic name of the day, Sylvester. That's why the Jews in Israel celebrate the event using a name of a Catholic saint."


I celebrate Hannukah. Me, my brother, and my sister each have our own menorah, so we each light our own candles each night. My parents like to take pictures and film us lighting them. My mom actually threatens to not give us our gifts if we don't let them take the pictures/film. I doubt she'll ever do that but why take the risk. lol.

For gifts I asked for Tales Of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World, Transformers Cybertron: The Ultimate Collection, Iron Man (Single-Disc Edition), Transformers Animated (DS game), Spider-Man: Requiem, Fantastic Four: Doomgate, and Star Wars Millennium Falcon (the last 3 are books).

We usually have the whole family get together at our house on Christmas. When my mom first came up with the idea of getting together she asked my cousins (me and my siblings weren't born yet) what day they wanted to celebrate Hannukah. They chose Christmas, so that’s the day we always get together as a family to celebrate.

[PancaKe]

After all, we have to put up with Christmas decorations, Christmas sales and talk about Christmas just about everywhere. So enough of that.

Gabz, you make it sound like everybody celebrating Christmas and wanting to talk about it offends you.

What does it matter if shops have sales, or people put up decorations or talk about it everywhere?

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

I used to be against celebrating Christmas. There was a phase in my life when I rejected everything western, including Christianity, and tried to be as Japanese as possible. Just as if Japan wasn't western these days. Well I got rid of it when I realized it was nazism. It included regarding Japanese women superior to western women and also things like watching Pokemon like no tomorrow.

Now back on topic, now I celebrate Christmas just as much as anyone. I tihnk it's great to have a time in the year when you can forget your worries and have Chrismas spirit. Of course it's hard to forget your worries when you are shopping and everything, but I like the idea of Christmas.

[Lady Vulpix]

Tara: people celebrating Christmas does not offend me. People trying to stick Christmas through every pore of everyone's body is what I find rather annoying. When everyone starts asking about Christmas preparations and either ignore me, give me odd looks or even yell at me (although this has only happened online) if I make any comments about feeling excluded. It's not that way with other Christian celebrations, nor any celebrations of other religions. Mind you, I have similar feelings about football (or soccer, whatever you call it). It's when people are so passionate about something that they tend to disregard those who don't feel the same way.

Zak: the aim of this thread is not the same as that of the other thread. I'm not trying to discuss commercialism and the current state of Christmas, I'm trying to discuss what this time is like for those of us who don't celebrate it. Your quote is appreciated, but not completely related.

And Mikachu: I'm glad you've grown out of it.

[Bulbasaur4]

Well, in honesty I haven't ever met an individual in the states who didn't know that Christmas was a Christian holiday nor have I met anyone who got upset at a non-Christian individual for not being enthusiastic or celebrating it. Then again, I've been raised in a very liberal area and attend a very liberal college and so that might have something to do with it.

I can't speak for everywhere else, but in the United States its easy to understand why Christmas is found everywhere. 80% of the population is Christian (give or take a percentage or two, depending on the year) and 15% of the population declares no religion. With that type of formula, yeah... its going to dominate. A few of my friends who aren't Christian, involve themselves in the "festivities" part of it just like they would participate in St. Patrick's day even though they're not Irish. They invent their own reasons for celebrating in the season and make it more like thanksgiving - where they celebrate being around loved ones and such.

And I'm sorry that you feel left out- its understandable but then again, people have the right to celebrate their religion and the more people who celebrate it, the more it'll evolve into something bigger. That's just how it is about anything, I find. It's hard to make sure everyone feels included... because if they try doing that, then the pendulum with shift and someone else will be excluded or feel short-changed and what-not.

I will sorta agree with Tara, you do sorta come across a bit offended. (But I understand you said you weren't.) But then again, I can't say that I understand or know what you're going through from my end. I've just... never seen people intentially try to stick Christmas through anyone. ^^;; But then again, like I said... yay for local surroundings.

[Lady Vulpix]

Well, 78% of the people here are Catholic, but that's not the problem. The problem is that a large portion of those people don't even know non-Christians exist. I've met people who knew that different religions existed but thought that everyone worshipped Jesus.

[Bulbasaur4]

That's too bad. Do you know why that is? Do the education systems not teach other religions as part of their curriculum or is to lack of education?

[Lady Vulpix]

Public schools don't mention religion at all, nor do most non-religious private schools. Religious schools teach only their own religion. So people learn about religion mostly at home or at their church/sinagogue/mosque/whatever.

[PancaKe]

Tara: people celebrating Christmas does not offend me. People trying to stick Christmas through every pore of everyone's body is what I find rather annoying. When everyone starts asking about Christmas preparations and either ignore me, give me odd looks or even yell at me (although this has only happened online) if I make any comments about feeling excluded. It's not that way with other Christian celebrations, nor any celebrations of other religions. Mind you, I have similar feelings about football (or soccer, whatever you call it). It's when people are so passionate about something that they tend to disregard those who don't feel the same way.


I don't see how people talking about Christmas is 1) intentionally ignoring you - because when people talk about Thanksgiving or school holidays (which I no longer get because of work and uni), or other things, that's not really inclusive of everyone either. and 2) I can't see how it's sticking Christmas through every pore of everybody's body.

I think, if people are passionate about something; then let them be passionate. But I don't see how that's a bad thing, or if "disregarding those who don't feel the same way" is really disregarding at all.

*shrugs* That's just my view.

[Blademaster]

I'm with PancaKe. This topic, whatever its spoken intentions may be, feels spiteful.

[Lady Vulpix]

Spiteful? What's spiteful about this thread? And when did I ever say people shouldn't talk about Christmas? I just said this isn't the thread for it. I said that if you want to talk about it, you should do so in Heald's thread.

Can't you people (other than Kalah) follow the purpose of this thread without bashing it?

*Sighs.* Ok, it seems I can't make myself clear. People keep misunderstanding all my attempts at explaining. If someone believes he or she knows what I mean, please help me because I'm stuck here. Otherwise, please move on. We seem to be speaking different languages here.

[Weasel Overlord]

Um, sorry guys but I really don't see what the problem is here. Speaking from a very strictly non-Christian point of view, I agree with Gabi. Sometimes, it feels like the religion side of Christmas is thrust upon you. As a child, I always thought I was a bit weird cos I didn't like praying in school, etc. And I didn't even go to a religious school, see. It was prayers every assembly, hymns too, whether you were Christian or not. Can't exactly remember what the Muslim kids did... but yes.

I'll admit, I love Christmas as much as the next person, but I personally find the whole Christian side of it a little bit ridiculous. People just go over the top. All the carols are Christian (I love carols, but always feel very hypocritical singing them, see), my little brother's gonna be in a nativity which basically every child does, choice or no, but at that age it's just a bit of fun, I guess. And don't get me started on those bloody boards outside churches, lol.

Obviously, it's not going to be anywhere near as bad here as say, America or where Gabi lives, where the actual majority of the population is Christian, but I find it bad enough sometimes.

Now I know that I can't speak from the point of view of someone who doesn't celebrate Christmas, but I think I can as someone who doesn't celebrate it as a Christian. Thrusting religion upon others is never a good thing - no matter whether it's at Christmas or just in the streets. And I am by NO means bashing Christianity here. Let's not get into a religious debate, cos those turn ugly. If people wish to interpret my reply as an incentive to start a debate, just don't.

And keep the topic on bloody topic, damnit. Instead of bitching about slur on religion that may or may not have actually been there, just leave it alone. Don't post here if you feel like that.

Personally, I'm very interested in how other religions spend the Christmas season, since it's just everywhere and INESCAPABLE, hehe.

[mr_pikachu]

*Sighs.* Ok, it seems I can't make myself clear. People keep misunderstanding all my attempts at explaining. If someone believes he or she knows what I mean, please help me because I'm stuck here. Otherwise, please move on. We seem to be speaking different languages here.

Let me try a metaphor.

The Christmas thread is like Fanfic. It's dedicated solely to that specific, totally awesome thing.

This thread is like Miscellaneous. It's the catch-all thread for all that other stuff that's decent, but just not quite as cool.

Also:
And (saying this should be unnecessary, but just to be safe) no flames, please.

No flames? Aww....

http://www.trixis-inn.com/images/Fireplace.gif.gif

[classy_cat18]

Weasel, you have no idea how much sense you made. As someone who was forced to recite speeches in Christmas programs every year, I sort of dreaded Christmas. Now I'm at the point where I don't have to participate!

But back to the point. I was wondering about Hanukkah (sp?) in other countries. Do they celebrate it differently, Gabi?

[Bulbasaur4]

I was wondering the same thing! I have friends here who celebrate Hanukkah (the spelling is correct ;3 ) and get really excited about it. They seem to make it a pretty big deal- just like Christmas- because they get a gift everyday and they always display their candles in the windows of their house.

[Zak]

I already said, it's different in Israel. It's more all about the food and the songs and the candles, not so much the presents. I don't think they even do presents... well, kids would get money from their parents on Hannukah, but that's all I know. I could be wrong though I haven't been there during then in a long time.

[Lady Vulpix]

Here in Argentina Hannukah's not a big deal, except perhaps among the most religious Jewish families. In the case of my familiy, it's just the candles and that's it.

But when my relatives from New York spent Hannukah here, we had a party and they gave us all cholocate coins. :D