Final Fantasy! [a discussion thread]

[Weasel Overlord]

Yeah I know, I'm farking obsessed. Shh. Anyway, I thought it'd be nice if we had a thread for all FF discussion, since I feel like I spam every other thread with my obsessiveness, lol.

Talk about old FF, new FF, upcoming FF, characters from FF, music from... well ok, you get my drift. I'll start off discussion by asking a question. An important one for any FF fan.

Which is your favourite Final Fantasy game? Why's that?

Personally, my favourite would have to be X. FFVIII was the first one I played, followed by VII, but for sheer amount of times played, nothing beats FFX. Plus it's the one I know pretty much every darn thing about. The story never fails to tear me apart; I adore the world and the setting; and it has one of the most awesome things ever - a group of characters who are important, but not discussed often in canon. Perfect for a fangirl like meself!

I am, of course, talking about Braska, Jecht and Auron. Obviously Auron is a big part of the story, but Braska and Jecht are basically blank slate characters. Plus Tidus annoys the fark out of me with his stupid whiny voice and his "MY OLD MAN!!!" every two seconds.

But anyway. Discuss! I know you're out there, fellow FF fans! And this isn't meant to be just a question-answer thing, so I don't think it should go in PCG, but modly ones, if you disagree feel free to move it along! :D

EDIT: Also! Who's excited for Dissidia!? COS I KNOW I AM!!

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Hey, it's a Final Fantasy thread, great! I think I have tried out more, but 'seriously' have played only Final Fantasy II, IV, VII, VIII, IX, X and X-2. And XII. And also Chocobo Tales. When I say seriously I mean that I thought I'd actually play those games through but some of them I just quit in the very beginning. Yeah, I have finished only VII and VIII.

But, Final Fantasy VII is battling with Super Mario Bros 3, Super Mario 64 and Galaxy for my favourite videogame place anyway. FFVII was the first game I ever beat. Music is good, I have lots of favourites there, like Jenova, One Winged Angel, The Main Theme and so on. Characters are great, including Sephiroth, and the plot is absorbing.

I still laugh at my former classmates who said Final Fantasy is bad because it isn't 'Real Fantasy'.

[Austrian ViceMaster Alex]

My favorite Final Fantasy game was FF 6, having a great story and really epic musical score. The opera scene is particularly memorable. It also was a very balanced game with lots of fun characters, graphic-wise it was also state-of-the art for its kind.

FF 7 was also fun though I was rather turned off that it was more Final Sci-fi than Fantasy. The characters were well done, the German translation of the game a complete disaster though. It made the entire story to make no sense at all. If you are an old-time player you will remember classic bloopers like "Uh-oh! The truck have started to move!" from Metal Gear. Now imagine the translation to be three times as bad - that was FF 7 in German. The sound was awesome though not en par with FF 6. The videos were great for the most part and really something new and astonishing back then. All in all a good game but certainly not as epic as FF 6.

The next I played was FF 5 and it was a complete let down. Not because it was a bad game though it was inferior to the previous games in pretty much every respect. I remember barely anything about it though that might also have to do with the fact that around that time I played fewer and fewer console RPGs as I didn't enjoy them that much anymore in general.

The last FF game (and also last Square game I played for several years) was FF 8. This game was like a cruel, twisted joke. Great graphics on the positive side. Forgettable music, horrible balancing (made it to the final boss around level 35, then had to level grind up to 50 or something to beat her). And what were they thinking when they made you travel to god forsaken places to collect screws and other scrap metal to upgrade your armor?

So, these are the FF games I have played and completed.

[Weasel Overlord]

I see what you mean about 8, Alex. Even though it was my complete first FF, I still haven't completed it - and it's knocking on 8 or so years ago when I got it. Gotta disagree with you about VIII's music though, since it was that which got me into game music. Started with Find Your Way, the suedo-annoying track that plays in Brothers' maze. It's soo pretty! :D

Ones I've completed... well, I've done VII, IX, X, X-2, XII and Crisis Core. I got really far in FFIV on the GBA, but decided to leave it til I got the DS version; got to the end of disc 3 in VIII then accidentally deleted my save file; played FFI about halfway though on the GBA, too.

I've tried II (too hard for me), III (again too hard), VI on the Playstation (I couldn't handle the horrible graphics on my big(ish) tv), XI (hated the online fees, etc.), and Revenant Wings (I'm still not very far in - it's HARD).

Poor FFIX is always overshadowed by people. I thought it was great! Especially Amarant (my favourite charrie :D) and Freya, although the last boss was a TAD random, and really easy since I levelled to about 78.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Alex, I disagree with you twice what comes to VIII.


Great graphics on the positive side. Forgettable music,

1) Horrible in-game graphics compared to VII! They just didn't make it look realistic in the good way. Should have stayed with the unrealistic VII style. Ugly.

2) The Extreme outweights all of the bad pieces.

This is either off-topic or not, but I would like to present some Final Fantasy fanart by my mother and myself. All of them I have already posted elsewhere.

http://www.pokemasters.net/forums/showthread.php?t=17202
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXZR1HtCHyg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQsWyhMMhN8
http://www.pokemasters.net/forums/showthread.php?p=382978

[Weasel Overlord]

VIII's FMV graphics were amazing though! Much better than VII's, which are horrible. I only like playing VII for the storyline, certainly not for the graphics. Oh, and also the music. And now that I've finished Crisis Core, it makes SO MUCH MORE SENSE! Aah confusion, it's nice to have you gone. Seriously, anyone who's played VII needs to play Crisis Core somehow. The graphics are beautiful, the story is brilliant, the music is AMAZING and Zack is a brilliant character (but not as brilliant as Angeal <3).

Mikachu: I'm not sure posting links to other TPM threads is a good idea... I mean, it kinda seems like advertising. Dunno though, Gamey modlys might disagree with me, but I'd rather keep this for discussion rather than fanworks. After all, if we start posting fanart, you never know what I will might cough up. Keep it in mind. XD

You know, I kinda feel like I'm missing out on not playing VI. The PS version was horrific, so I couldn't play that, but am I right in thinking that they're bringing out a DS version like with IV? I'd play that! Actually... isn't there already a gameboy version of some kind out for VI? Hmm.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

I have a friend who hates VI, he thinks it's the worst Final Fantasy ever! I don't know about his arguments though, he only played the Playstation version and talked about 'false 3-D graphics' or 2 1/2-D.

Sorry if I flood the thread, but mods may delete the links if they wish, not that I'd be the one to give a permission.

[Austrian ViceMaster Alex]

isn't there already a gameboy version of some kind out for VI? Hmm.

Yes, I'm quite sure there's a Gameboy Advance version. Not sure if it was Japan-only though.

I can't see how Mikachu can say FF 8's graphics are worse than FF 7's though. FF 7's background graphics were good but the character graphics were a complete mess. I still have nightmares of the characters' blocky, fingerless hands.

[PNT510]

Nope the GBA version of 6 came out in the US as well as japan. The music on the GBA version isn't quite up to par with the SNES version but it's better than a lot of people claim.

I've played every game in the main FF series and a bunch of the spin offs. Didn't play a whole lot of 2 or 11 because they both kinda suck.

7 and 10 are the only two I've beaten. They also happen to be my two favorites. 7 for having the best story and really introducing me(and most western gamers) to RPGs. And then 10 is just a complete package. Good story, Music, Graphics, and rock solid gameplay.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

WARNING! Once I have presented my argument on FFVII graphics I'll tell about my Final Fantasy VII challenge in this long post! So if you aren't a mod who has to control the forum and not interested in my challenge, I highly request you read just my graphics argument. I won't get mad. I know the mods who have to read the whole post anyway, and feel sorry for them already.


I can't see how Mikachu can say FF 8's graphics are worse than FF 7's though. FF 7's background graphics were good but the character graphics were a complete mess. I still have nightmares of the characters' blocky, fingerless hands.

Perhaps I have a twisted taste, but that's my opinion, Final Fantasy VIII characters looked coarse. I liked Final Fantasy VII characters' appearance and the reason is actually the same for what you guys didn't like them. When I play FFVII, I feel like I enter in some kind of a dream dimension where everything looks different from ours. I don't mean real world should like that but I just found it so aesthetic. Other people's nightmares are my dreams. Emotional viewpoint, huh?

Then...

Mikachu's Final Fantasy VII Haste/Regen Challenge - IT MAKES SENSE!!

People who dare to insult the mighty Final Fantasy VII bosses, I always suggest to make the bad guys tougher by casting support magic on them. I told about my techique it in a Finnish chat room but they turned me down and said it makes no sense! The same guys play the game through with the first weapons, or run away from each possible battle, just as if it made sense? Now I'm going to show you this challenge makes sense, though I have yet to find a way to prove that.

So I decided to play the whole game through and cast Haste and Regen on every boss in the game I can. Stingers and other such enemies with the regular fighting theme music don't count.

Once again I started the game, like I have done so many times in my life. It was on Finland Independence Day, the 6th of December 2008. I played Final Fantasy VII occasionally and reached Gongaga on January 4th, 2009. I bought Time materia from the materia shop and could start the challenge part beginning with Gi Nattak. Regen I hadn't got yet. Of course, if I had decided to do this right, I could have collected the AP for Regen sooner but I just found it so boring. I always say boring no matter how much I like the game.

Monday the 5th of January 2009
Play time: 12:38 (yeah, I'm slow)
Today's first Save Point: Cosmo Canyon

My team:

Cloud
lv36
HP1995
MP346

Red XIII
lv36
HP1947
MP316

Tifa
lv35
HP1557
MP297

So the first boss in this challenge was Gi Nattak. The battle started with one Fire Soul taking over my Red XIII. When my turn came, I could have taken Gi Nattak down with X-Potion or something, but Cloud used Haste on him and the other Soul Fire instead. Then I began battling. My strategy is really unstable, I just use moves I feel like using. Ramuh and Shiva because they hit both and look awesome. Aside the Summons, I took the easy way and concentrated more on Gi itself. All to say, it wasn't that challenging. The battle lasted for about 5 minutes.

Then I followed the plot and went to Nibelheim. I have never played with Vincent too much, so now I decided to bring him to my team. I was going to search for the safe clues myself, but gave up and my friend took them from the internet while I was wandering around in Shinra Mansion. So I opened the safe and faced Lost Number. Haste first on the bad guy, then Ice2 which missed. I had gained Beta already from Modgar Zolom, but that didn't do much damage either. I just can't remember the weaknessess which is odd because I have played the game a great deal. Cloud was even K.O.'d by Lost Number's Quake2 after he had turn red, but I woke him up with Life followed by Cure2 on everyone. Tifa had a Bolt Ring, by the way. Anyway, I checked if Lost's haste was still on by re-casting it on him just to see it said 'Miss' so I guess it still was on. I finished with Tifa's limit ending with Dolphin Blow and the battle had lasted for about 5 minutes.

I thought Materia Keeper would be more of a challenge, as he was one of my favourite bosses of all time, but I was disappointed. I had forgotten he absorbed Fire though. Of course Regen would have made a little difference, but I still hadn't got it. Materia Keeper got poisoned from Tifa's attack since she had Added Effect. Vincent's fire type Limit Break didn't save MK either. I got Trine and beat him in about 5 minutes.

Tuesday the 6th of December 2009
Play time: 14:25
Save Point: Rocket Launch Pad Area

Cloud
lv39
HP1882 (I did some materia changes)
MP388

Tifa
lv39
HP1849
MP339

Vincent
LV37
HP1680
MP353

Palmer ruined my challenge, you could say. I forgot to cast Haste during the first turn. But I continued because the mistake just felt so stupid and casted it next turn. Palmer dodged a lot of my attacks but the battle was still short, only about 3 minutes.

I went to Mideel Area in the south in order to get some AP and finally got Regen. I spend the rest of the day getting to Ancient Temple and called it a day before the dragon. I'd later fight the first complete challenge battle, now that I had Regen.

UPDATE

Well I managed to kill Red Dragon but only becuase I didn't cast a new Regen quickly enough. Then I had a strategy for Demon's Gate, I'd first cast Haste and Regen on him, then attack with both Cloud and Tifa's level 3 Limit Breaks.

But it opened my eyes, and now I admit my challenge DIDN'T MAKE SENSE! I just wasn't able to beat the boss that way. Now I'm just going to play the game through in the normal way.

[CuteLassJigglypuff]

I've played 1 through 10. FF4 and FF5 are my favorites. FF4 because I thought it had great characters, music, and a good storyline. FF5 because I enjoyed the job/ability system.

[Weasel Overlord]

Yes, I'm quite sure there's a Gameboy Advance version. Not sure if it was Japan-only though.

I can't see how Mikachu can say FF 8's graphics are worse than FF 7's though. FF 7's background graphics were good but the character graphics were a complete mess. I still have nightmares of the characters' blocky, fingerless hands.

BLOCKS FOR HANDS!! Yes, I totally agree. That just looks hilarious. XD And even though VIII's in-game graphics are better, I still think they look a bit... undefined about the edges.

[PNT510]

Personally I think 7 looks better now. Yeah everyone is blocky and stuff, but there are too many jaggies in 8.

[Phantom Echo]

okay right now FF5 Advanced rocks my world! I am addicted! It is great!
I like the jobs: Monk, Dragoon, Gladiator, Oracle, Cannoneer, Necromancer, Geomancer, Summoner, Black Mage, Ninja, Ranger,and Bard

i like magic alot.. as you can seeeee, and alot of utility jobs.

My favorite all time Final Fantsy Charcater is Faris from FF5 Advanced. I LOVE her! She is my bitch!

[Weasel Overlord]

I've never played V. Probably terrible of me, I know, but I can't stand the SNES period FFs on a television. Blerggh.

Okay, shall we have another discussion topic? Who's the best FF villain!?

And anyone who automatically says Sephiroth is disqualified. :keke: Nah, joking. Also, I don't mean those "real villains" that you get after killing who you think is the villain for most of the game. That weird-ass thing at the end of IX that just comes out of nowhere, for example. XD

Sephiroth wins in pure well... evil I suppose, but I love the idea of the main game villain being a god - Yu Yevon. Seymour is brilliant, too, if just cos of the single-mindedness with which he carries out his plans. He doesn't spend months pining after his girl - he goes out and kidnaps her and forces her to marry him! Brilliant. Plus he has a creepy voice, and is a Guado. I love Guado (as anyone from RPG will know if they've ever been in a FF RPG with me ¬_¬), and I love Seymour too.

[classy_cat18]

I agree. Don't waste time planning, just go out and get it!

I think the obvious choice for me besides Sephiroth for Best Villain would go to Kefka. Dude, he wiped out almost all life on a planet! Now that's hardcore. Plus he was just straight up crazy.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

I posted in a Finnish Final Fantasy message board for a while and they had this discussion on Final Fantasy VII, and it strangely transformed into a dispute whether Jenova or Sephiroth is the main antagonist in FF VII. Another reason why I quit there was because they deleted my messages but now I'm far off the topic.

Anyways, sadly I know well only Sephiroth and Ultimecia, but like both actually. All existence denied.

[PNT510]

I can kinda see where they are coming from but to say anyone other than Sephiroth is the main antagonist is wrong. Jenova maybe be the one that ultimately drives Sephiroth to do what he does but you spend the entire game chasing him and conflicting with him more directly.

[DarkestLight]

I've played I thru X.

I've beaten I-X. I used that term loosely as by my hands I've beaten II, IV VI VII(First one ever) and IX. I watched my friends finish the others, but it was co-op play then.

I don't do online Fees, so XI will never get played. XII & XIII I really wanna play.

I also played Chocobo tales, DoC and FFTactics FF tactics being my favorite hands down. I bring RAIN with archers on them biznitches! Or harm them via Ninja class. Love it. I NEED to play Crisis Core, but I hate anything Playstation in my house that is less than 5 years old :o.

Kefka was pure psychosis. Never thought anyone was more badass. Sephiroth was formidable, and i NEED TO PLAY CRISIS CORE SO DoC makes SOME SORT OF SENSE?, but seriously? David Bowie in FF:AC? He lost a bit of fearsomeness.

But..I think Ima watch that right now :D. But before I do, sum up a few points.

FFX=Stupidest game ever. That soccor game crap=retarded and tuned me off.
FFXIII=Card game=pass controller to friend. Never touched that game again. Specially when it became Pokemon trading cards vs FFXIII trading cards. That should never hit the streets of America AGAIN ><!

[classy_cat18]

I also played Chocobo tales, DoC and FFTactics FF tactics being my favorite hands down. I bring RAIN with archers on them biznitches! Or harm them via Ninja class. Love it. I NEED to play Crisis Core, but I hate anything Playstation in my house that is less than 5 years old :o.

Wasn't Crisis Core on PSP?

And I thought the Sephiroth/Jenova thing was sort of like the delusional relationship between the main character and his dead mother in Psycho.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

FFXIII=Card game=pass controller to friend. Never touched that game again. Specially when it became Pokemon trading cards vs FFXIII trading cards. That should never hit the streets of America AGAIN ><!

Is there a card game in XIII? Has the game even been released yet? If you mean VIII, I disagree. Triple Triad rules, I play it with my mother and friends.

[Master Rudy]

Sephiroth=Mama's Boy!
YEAH I SAID IT!!!!

Don't get me wrong Seph is cool but he is a bit overrated. As far as having one too many screws loose Kefka is the clear winner. Plus he's the only FF villain whose plan actually succeeded in the fact that halfway into the game he destroys the planet and pretty much becomes god.

[Phantom Echo]

is FF Tactics:War of Lions a good one? cuz i might go out to the mall and get it.

[Weasel Overlord]

Well, personally, I hate all the Tactics games. Well okay, I hated FF Tactics Advance, which I took back to the shop within two days of buying it, lol. It was pretty bad...

Not even sure why I'm answering... best wait for someone who's played it to reply, Phantom. :D

DL: You could BUY Triple Triad playing cards?! WOW!! Damnit, we miss out on everything in smelly England. *pouts*

Does anyone else have any of the awesome ACTION FIGURES? (Yes I know, they're not action figures. Whatevs.) I have Balthier, Ashe, Auron (although his leg, arm AND sword broke :() and two Vincents (one AC and one VII). Planning on getting my grubby paws on a Summoner Yuna, a Gilgamesh (OHHH HELL YEAAAAH) and some of the Crisis Core ones when they actually come out over here. IE: I want Angeal. But he's not out yet, so I'll be satisfied with Zack and Aeris. Oh yes, and I want a Reno. Damnit, I want that Reno so baddd~

[DarkestLight]

Yes Weezy. Lemme tell you a story of amazing lore. And thank you BTW, I did mean VIII.

I'ma hustler. I used to make Pokemon cards and print them out and sell them on the street. First 3 to 4 decks of cards that came out, I sold like crazy. I was a hustling teen. Now. FFVIII came out and suddenly, there were these VIII card hustlers selling those next to my Pokestand. It became all out war when my friends came to school with those cards and started playing. That was not allowed! AT ALL.

It was beyond disgusting, but you'd prolly have died and went to heaven if you were around back then >>

[Emotional Faun Chiko-sai]

I've finished, um, FFVI - FFX and FFXII, and played about 75% of FFIII (DS) and FFX-2, and 25% of FFIV, lol.

Auron-Jecht-Braska OT3!!! \o/

Random fun fact: Besides Genesis in Crisis Core, Gackt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gackt) was also the model for Cloud and Squall (in different phases of his career). Character designer Nomura's apparently quite the fanboy.

Absolute favourite FF would be VII. Never mind that it's not actually a fantasy, as someone else mentioned. ...That's probably why I like it the most, really. It also did NOT have a whole lot of cheesy love story thrown in - there IS some love story, but there isn't a whole lot of romantic shmuck, unlike say FFVIII and FFX. For the record, the FFX shmuck was rather better than the FFVIII shmuck.

I quite like the graphics in FFVII, but I'm pretty sure it's nostalgia on my part because FFVII was the game that made me get a Playstation in the first place, and is still my favourite FF. I actually prefer the 'blocky'/anime-styled character designs of the original to the super-modern uber-pretty ones introduced in FFVII:AC; for me the "feel" of the characters just changed when they ported them into realistic CG form.

...Of course I'm still hoping (futilely) that they remake FFVII with pretty realistic CG graphics 8D

And I must tip my cap off to Kefka because he WAS a better villain than Sephiroth and there was that awesome part up on the Floating Continent where he went I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate (et al) you.

[Phantom Echo]

alright i got Crisis Core instead.... but i cant get past the stupid Bahumat...is it legal to put it tis early in the game!!!!!!

[Weasel Overlord]

With Bahamut, dodging is your best bet of winning. It's also a really great habit to get into for the rest of the game, cos some of the missions later on are totally EVIL. If I'm right, it's the triangle. But it could also be square. Try both; one of them blocks, one dodges. It's good for Bahamut cos you can dodge that attack where he lobs spiky things at you completely, if you time it well. Also, if you press the block button JUST as a big attack's name comes up, you take slightly less damage.

One more thing. Spam the potions! They're brilliant, and so fast. Potions etc. saved my life on many an occasion, and it's shocking how fast you can get at switching to them, taking one and then attacking again with practice.

Hope that helped! :D

[Phantom Echo]

Thank You!!!! and what shouhld i do when he is on the platforms where yoyu cant reach him....Blizzard or fire right...i use blizzard cuz it i a higher lvl right nw.......well thank you....i still think it is illegal to put frikin Bahumat that early in the game....

[Weasel Overlord]

Oh, and it's not the last time you'll see Mr Bahamut, haha. And his various... forms. As for the long-distance, sure magic works. If you've got any other distance materia (I can't remember if you get any at that point) just use that instead.

I need to play Crisis Core again...

[Mystic_clown]

Hmm, Best Villain huh? Well, there's so many to choose from...

Sephiroth is my natural choice, mainly because FFVII was the first FF I ever played. We're given a clear idea of his motives, believing he's the last of the cetra and that he is the rightful ruler of the earth. There's also a bit of sympathy for him as well, as he didn't know all the facts (How would he have differed if he knew what Jenova really was and that Lucrecia was his mother). He's also the only FF villain to kill a main character (if you don't know who I'm referring to, you've been living under a rock).

Kafka comes close as well, mainly out of pure evilness and his outlandish appearance. I mean, he poisoned a whole city and then virtually destroyed the whole world. He's also a bit on the humour side, especially when he throws a tantrum. My only problem with him is that from what I know, he's only doing those things because he's utterly insane. Not exactly the most indepth of motives.

Kuja deserves an honerable mention as well *waits for all the gay jokes to die down* Sure, Kuja does seem to be a bit on the power hungry and destructive side, but Kuja's main reason for doing all this is in fact for his own survival. He knows Garland is after him and is trying to gather the power to be rid of him. When he learns he's going to die anyway, he finally snaps and goes on a suicidal rampage. Sure, power may factor into his desires a little bit, but it's mainly his own survival that he cares about.

[Phantom Echo]

wait Sephiroth is the villain! i thouhgt he was the good guy?!

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Like Cloud, Sephiroth used to be with Shinra. They went to Nibelheim to solve the problem with the Mako Reactor in Mt. Nibel because some monsters had shown up there. They reached the reactor, and there Sephiroth explained the deal with the creatures kept in the reactor. He said they all were humans once, and Cloud asked "You mean you're different?" or something. Sephiroth went crazy and went to study some history in Shinra Mansion. He became sure he had to take the planet back to Cetra, i.e. Ancients, destroyed Nibelheim and that's how the friendship (or they were actually war buddies) between him an Cloud ended. If I have understood the plot, later Sephiroth forgot about the Ancients and, he just wanted to go on with Jenova's mission, which was to destroy the planet and become a god.

Now if you mean when Sephiroth kills President Shinra, of course you could think he does something for the good of planet but that is just a part of his madness and later he summons Meteor with Black Materia and that's certainly not good.

Hopefully I explained this clearly enough. In fact, they deleted a bit similar post of mine in Final Fantasy Finland.

[PNT510]

You didn't understand the plot totally, Cloud and Sephiroth weren't war buddies. Zack and Sephiroth were, Cloud just thought he was Zack.

[Weasel Overlord]

I can see where the confusion came from though. I never really understood VII properly until I finished Crisis Core. Because yes, I am a tard.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

You didn't understand the plot totally, Cloud and Sephiroth weren't war buddies. Zack and Sephiroth were, Cloud just thought he was Zack.

Sorry. Here's the fact, there were 4 people who came to Nibelheim, Sephiroth, Zack who was first class, Cloud who was just a regular soldier (not sure about the term here either, I mean a regular Shinra Soldier in blue uniform) and another regular soldier whose name we don't know. The last-mentioned was lost in Mt. Nibel. OK, there were the facts, now I'll tell what I think: Of course this doesn't mean they all fought in the war together, I only assumed all of Cloud's memories weren't wrong when he described Sephiroth as a war buddy. I mean, Cloud remembered things Zack did, but he also remembered some things he did himself and I by 'war buddies' I mean he fought with Sephiroth. What's confusing, too, is that first-class Shinra soldier Zack was wearing the same kind of clothes as Cloud in the 'corrected' flashback, while Cloud, who said after the flashback "I never was in SOLDIER" had a regular blue Shinra Soldier uniform. The latter Zack/Cloud flashback, which comes when you go to the library in Shinra Mansion shows Zack had changed Cloud's clothes to what they are in the game, but that's another story. I have memorized large parts of FFVII dialogue (I have many recordings on VHS tapes) but I have never played Crisis Core and haven't even watched The Last Order completely so that's why I just have this theory.

Again, I'm sorry if this nitpicking takes the conversation to an unwanted direction.

[Weasel Overlord]

Sorry Mikachu, I'm gonna have to agree with PNT here. Sure, Cloud was a ShinRa soldier, but he wouldn't have had any contact with Sephiroth short of being given orders by him. Sephiroth, Genesis and Angeal as the only 3 First Class SOLDIERs at the start of Crisis Core were sort of... well, not aloof, but still. They were more admired from afar than actually engaged with on that sort of level by the normal soldiers. That's what I got from Crisis Core anyway... It actually made a lot of things click into place about VII. Like why Cloud was wearing First Class uniform, etc.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

It's OK, I trust you guys, you know more than me and I think we all learned something new about the plot now. Perhaps we should move on to another subject. Am I allowed to post a question? Like what characters do you like to use in each Final Fantasy? Is it OK to discuss that?

[PNT510]

That's more than a fine question to ask. In FF7 I like to use Cloud, Cid, and the 3rd changes up. It's normally Tifa, but I like to use Barret and Vincent and sometimes Yuffie. Always Cloud(duh) and Cid though.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

During the very first years I played Final Fantasy VII I used Cid and Barret whenever I could. Then I got this girl syndrome and named female characters after my classmates whom I had crushes on. So I used as many girls as possible, i.e. Aeris, Tifa and Yuffie. Then I abandoned Tifa who reminded me of my former crush and returned to Barret so I had a team with Aeris and Barret and later Yuffie and Barret. In the new challenge, I decided to use characters I haven't been using for a while, that is, Tifa, Red XIII and Vincent in turns.

In Final Fantasy VIII I use Rinoa and Selphie whenever possible. I have a friend who hates Selphie and says like she is like one of the most annoying videogame character ever. I myself love Sephie, she is so cheerful and cute. Actually, one reason I took a break from VIII was that Rinoa began to look ugly to me but now my taste for women has changed and I love both Rinoa and Selphie.

[Weasel Overlord]

Hey sure, anyone can start off new discussions! It's not all gotta be monopolised by me, lol!

Okaaay in VII I'd use Cloud, Red XIII and Vincent, alternated with Cid, whose final Limit I preferred. In VIII I'd use Squall, Irvine and Rinoa, in IX I'd have a nice big alternation thing going on. I'd use Zidane, Vivi, and then depending on which summons I wanted either Eiko or Dagger, and depending on what mood I was in, either Amarant or Freya. Although I'll be honest, it was mostly Amarant. I luff him. :D In X my first party was thoroughly Auron, Yuna and Tidus, cos they rock and I couldn't be arsed getting anyone else's Ultimate Weapons. But I'm doing a playthrough now and gonna try do Penance at the end, so I'm using Wakka, Tidus and Rikku and actually finding them rather good. Especially Wakka - he has SO much strength!

In XII my first party was Ashe, Balthier and Basch. I love the guys in XII. :D But now I was persuaded to use characters I've not used before - ie: the other girls. I deviated from that somewhat and now I'm using Balthier, Ashe and Fran. Yeaaah I know, not much of a difference, lol. I can't STAND Penelo, so I ain't gonna use her. Also can't stand Vaan, so that's no way no how as well.

From that, I suppose you could guess that I'm influenced by the characters I fancy, lol. Which I am. ¬_¬

I've just remembered something I wanted to ask! Who here has experienced the terror of the Dark Aeons in FFX? And then subsequentally, Penance. If you don't know what the hell I'm on about, you're lucky and you probably own the American version of the game. ^_^ If not, then hey, share stories of the pain! Since I expect only a few people to actually have experienced this, don't think this is stopping the other discussion. We can have many on the go!!

Me? I accidentally walked into Dark Anima. That was HORRIBLE. I was like... why are there chains all over the screen!? ARGGGH!! Luckily, my Yojimbo bums me and he did a FREE Zanmato for me as soon as I summoned him. :D Thank the lord. I managed to kick Dark Valefor's arse all on my own, and Dark Ifrit, Dark Ixion, but Dark Shiva is a total bitch, but not as bitchy as Dark Bahamut, who is PURE EVIL. His stupid bloody Impulse does STONE on everyone. And you can't guard against it. Nope, not even with Stoneproof. Not sure if Ribbon works, mind... But yes, you really HAVE to Yojimbo that guy. Oh, on my old game Dak Yojimbo was the only one I didn't get. Well ok, and Dark Magus Sisters, cos they were evil too.

And I have rambled enough. ^_^

[Emotional Faun Chiko-sai]

Actually, I thought the whole FFVII confused memories thing was solved pretty well with the explanation of Cloud taking all of Zack's memories for his own that they showed in the Shinra mansion library scene. This is the impression I got from the original game; I've not played Crisis Core though on account of not owning a PSP.

Anyway! In FFVII I liked using everyone except Barret and Cait Sith. My first round through was Yuffie and Red; subsequently Yuffie and Cid, Tifa and Cid, then Cid and Vincent. Cid's always there because I like dragoons. In the early parts of the game when you can't use Cid, I used Red a lot because he's my favourite character after Cid.

Re: FFVIII, I thought Selphie was quite LOL. Ditz power. I put her in a team with Zell and had fun watching them ditz each other out. The other team I used a lot was Quistis and Irvine (for fandom reasons ¬_¬). My favourite people to use were the flashbackers, Laguna, Kiros and Ward.

FFIX: Freya and Amarant; the fourth character varies, but usually it's Garnet/Dagger. Freya = obligatory dragoon. Amarant because I, uh, like his funky hairdo.

FFX: You can use everyone in a single battle to get SP (?) so that's what I usually do :D favourite team is Tidus/Rikku/Wakka though. At the end my Rikku became a mage (sort of). Needless to say the other setup I use is Lulu/Auron/Yuna.

FFVI: Gau~ definitely I'd have Gau in my team, favourite character gets dibs. Other characters vary. Usually Relm would be in there for the high magic stat (and the snarky comments). I've used Terra, Locke, Sabin, Shadow and Mog interchangeably to fill in the other two slots.

FFXII: Ashe & Balthier (favourite character dibs...), third slot varies, usually Basch. But because I'm a compulsive leveller I level all six playable characters to the same level and give them different 'jobs', just separated into two groups. Ashe is my tank (because it's funny to see her holding a sword that's larger than her although not as funny as seeing Penelo doing that), Balthier is the sniper/pinch-hitter, Basch despite horrible magic stat is healer/applier of Haste &c, Penelo another magic-user/healer, Fran bowwoman/misc duties, Vaan sub-tank.

EDIT: And I thought I'd rambled a lot :V HAY THERE KIRKLE

EDIT2: OMG I HATE DARK MAGUS SISTERS HATE HATE

For the record I never got any Dark Aeon past Dark Shiva D: I know, I AM A WUSS. I mock-screamed when I saw Dark Valefor on my screen because I was NOT expecting to see him there, I wanted to go to Besaid to get my Jecht Sphere, dammit!!!

[Weasel Overlord]

How the HELL did you do Dark Shiva but none of the others!?! Valefor's doable with a series of Aeon overdrives - it's how I did mine. XD Dark Shiva was soooo fast I couldn't even hit the slag! And then she'd just hit me right back whenever I tried, and then bam, dead.

RE: characters. In XII at the moment, I have Balthier as my Dragoon. He has Zodiac Spear my precious baby mmm I love it. Well okay, I found Dragon Whisker and gave that to Fran too, cos hey, it was better attack than the bow she was using. Ashe still has Deathbringer, but I'm aiming for a better sword and eventually (that being the operative word here) Tournesol. The Yawn Quest it should be called, honestly. Although it's less boring than... well... tedious. Especially if you can't get the item you need, despite chaining like, 700 of the monster. *cough* Hell's Gate's Flame *glares pointedly at Cerberus'*

[Emotional Faun Chiko-sai]

Actually, I meant that I couldn't survive anyone AFTER Dark Shiva ie. Dark Bahamut, Dark Yojimbo, Magus Sisters, the whole shebang. I did Darks Valefor to Shiva ALTHOUGH Shiva was so hard orz I couldn't hit her 75% of the time. I think Valefor was the only one I didn't have to use Aeon Overdrives against, I killed him with Wakka's and Tidus's Overdrives, and someone had a Sacrifice Overdrive to boost another character's Overdrive option, can't remember who that was but I used that as well.

[Drago]

Tragically I can't impart a great deal of FF knowledge, having had limited exposure. I loved VII but still haven't finished it (once I get to disc 3 I get distracted and ditch the whole saving the world thing) - I always had my boys Red and Cid in tow; loved watching the latter spurting strings of "#@%$ers!!"

I don't know if I'll ever finish X. It's... Boring! And not VII. It fails. I miss VII's characters, storyline and Materia. To each their own...

[PNT510]

I love the ability to which you can customize characters with Materia. So many games you have to take character X because they are the healer and character Y because they have an awesome spell even if you don't really like them, but with Materia the only thing you really have to worry about is limit breaks otherwise it doesn't matter who you play as.