Barack Obama's Inauguration

[mr_pikachu]

As I'm sure most of you know, President-Elect Barack Obama's inauguration (http://inaugural.senate.gov/index.cfm) is scheduled nine days from today: January 20, 2009. I'll make this simple. What are your thoughts on it, and what do you plan to do on that day, if anything?

Personally, I feel that it's one of the most historic American events of our time. Granted, I didn't vote for him, and I stand by that decision. However, it's hard to deny that the swearing-in of our first African-American president is a big deal. Decades from now, I'd love to be able to tell my kids/grandkids/whatever that I was alive to see the world change.

As such, I'm actually considering driving to Chicago to attend the event. I'll be off that Tuesday so the only obstacle for me is the length of the trip, and surprisingly that shouldn't be too bad. I still need to figure out how to get tickets, but that won't be a big deal. I hope.

So! Talk.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Of course it's interesting and noteworthy, many things will change from Bush's times. Since I live in Finland, not the US, it's going to be a lot more normal day to me, but still. Our president Tarja Halonen and Bush didn't get on with each other too well, but now there'll be a new practice. I'm going to watch the news that day and I just hope Obama won't get shot there.

[Blademaster]

I'm just here to post one 'word.' But since one-word posts are considered spam, I have to leave a stupid disclaimer like that which you are reading. At the terminus of this disclaimer shall be the message I wish to disclose, which is thus:

inb4royshowsuptoturnthisthreadintoawarzone

[Andrew]

Oh, Christ, I am not looking forward to a quotewar.

But, Obama's ideas are actually really interesting me. He really has captured the nation's hopes for improvement. I am still quite heavily supporting Hillary Clinton. But, I suppose Obama has a lot of fresh ideas which I think could really restore US's former glory.

So... go Obama! Just don't get assassinated! BTW I think the Vice Prez is kind of boringly lame.

[mistysakura]

I'll be up watching it and crossing my fingers that there won't be assassination attempts and people won't get hurt...

[Roy Karrde]

I'll be watching it, and like mistysakura I can only hope there are no assassination attempts. I do feel sorry for my cousin, he lives in DC but came back to Texas for Christmas and came down with pneumonia to the point he had to have surgery on his lungs. He went from die hard Republican to die hard Democrat and will have to miss the inauguration.

All that being said, I am half wanting the day, half dreading. Half wanting because Bush is a lame duck President and I am ready for things to start getting done. Half dreading because Barack Obama seems to be combining the worst of FDR, JFK, and Carter. But we survived Carter we can survive Obama if he turns out just like him.

[kainashi]

yeah man, fdr, jfk, and carter were pretty terrible! preach it brother!

[Roy Karrde]

yeah man, fdr, jfk, and carter were pretty terrible! preach it brother!

FDR had the war to cover up his bad aspects, especially seeing how we now know the New Deal actually extended the Great Depression in America. JFK has his assassination to gloss over that he had one of the worst foreign policy disasters when he met with Khrushchev a year before and absolutely got schooled by Khrushchev, and was exposed for his inexperience, the event led to what many believed is Khrushchev believing Kennedy was a push over and could walk all over him with the Berlin Wall and Cuban Missile Crisis. And well Carter, Carter was so much of a fuck up I don't know where to begin.

With Obama I worry he might have the New Deal aspects of FDR that could continue the economic crisis long after it should be finished. The inexperience and well "noobness" of JFK that could lead Foreign leaders to think they can push him around. And the economic and environmental beliefs of Carter which brought this country to it's knees.

But in turn he could also have the Bi Partisan Economic hand and well pure luck of Clinton, the steel spine that JFK had when pushed to the breaking point, and the guts to do what is right on the Foreign Policy front that FDR had. That is the interesting part, we just don't know!

[Jeff]

OK, before this quote war gets started, I just thought I'd get in and get my say.

There's no doubt that this inauguration is going to be huge. Hotels in my area, about 45 miles from DC, are booked. It's estimated that 5 million people will be there compared to the 1 million who attend most inaugurations. There will likely be a traffic nightmare. My dad who works for the Maryland State Highway Administration says that some people he works with will be spending the night at the office the night before. Virginia managed to come up with a clever solution to the traffic problem, they closed every entrance into DC from their side, leaving the traffic to us. Thanks Virginia! Luckily, I probably won't have to deal with it, but I feel bad for my dad though.

As for watching it on TV, I really don't care. I didn't vote for him, I still don't believe in the things he stands for, and therefore, the inauguration doesn't interest me. I can understand why people are making a big deal of it, but to me a person is a person no matter what race they are, so this inauguration isn't any more special to me than any other one. I might watch it though.

[Asilynne]

Since I live nearby, I will be making some money on inaugeration day. I didnt vote for Obama but well, why not captialize on his popularity? Ill be working with a t-shirt company on that day selling T-shirts with 20% commission :D I have the potential to make at least 200 dollars in one day alone, so Thanks Obama! lol


Oh yeah I suppose its historic and all too XD Btw, hes technically our first Mixed race president, not black pres >.> Still historic though :>

Edit:


Virginia managed to come up with a clever solution to the traffic problem, they closed every entrance into DC from their side, leaving the traffic to us. Thanks Virginia!
No problem!! :D lol j/k

[mr_pikachu]

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Hey everyone, it's time for the daily Laugh at mr_pikachu's Idiocy Fun Time!

As you well know, the inauguration will be held in the District of Columbia - not Chicago, Illinois. That makes an ever-so-slight difference in terms of the amount of driving one might have to do to attend. But what's ten extra hours on the road, really?

Guess who won't be at the inauguration after all! :dead:

[Roy Karrde]

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Hey everyone, it's time for the daily Laugh at mr_pikachu's Idiocy Fun Time!

As you well know, the inauguration will be held in the District of Columbia - not Chicago, Illinois. That makes an ever-so-slight difference in terms of the amount of driving one might have to do to attend. But what's ten extra hours on the road, really?

Guess who won't be at the inauguration after all! :dead:

I would expect a hugeeee party in Chicago for it. Probably in Hyde Park or where ever Obama held his victory speech.

[MToolen]

You know, I saw you posting that and, given Chicagoans' penchant for wanting to do things there, I almost believed it. I think it'd work out great, to be honest. We'd have D.C. be the District of Chicago; The remaining 6 million people in Illinois could benefit from a non-Chicago-centric government.

Southern Illinoisans can dream, too.

[Heald]

I'd love to sit here and point out why someone who is clearly trying to derail the thread is so very very wrong on certain aspects of America's history due to their incredibly skewed outlook on the world, but that's not the point of the thread.

Not sure exactly what the reaction over here will be. I'm sure most of the newspapers here will have something to do with 'CHANGE' on the headlines, while I guess a couple will be celebrating the departure of the worst President in the history of the United States. Otherwise, I'm sure very little will happen here. Still, roll on a new era, and hopefully one a whole lot better than these last 8 years of darkness that have cast a shadow over the world.

[DarkestLight]

I'm only popping in to say Thank you Roy for willingly pointing out some hypothetical things Obama could be capable of, instead of what may be just apparent flaws. I dont really care about Inauguration Day, but I do care about every moment from then, and how hard will he force the whole of American to fix the slack and get us back on track.

>> Truthfully though, <<If I could, I'd go. Fast.

[Master Rudy]

Yawn....can someone wake me when it's 1/20/13? Seriously I can't stand Obama and everyone being all "Yay! First black prez!" when really he's not 100% black. I think this guy in one way or another is a disaster waiting to happen.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3261/2861149673_25a15356c4.jpg?v=0
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3006/2852100939_7d7ab50d55.jpg?v=0

Let's not forget Obama's big slogan "vote for change!" Remember folks.....Cuba voted for change 50 years ago......:P

[Magmar]

I'm looking forward to it :)

I like Obama. I like Michelle Obama a lot, too. Then again I'm from Rhode Island, and here everyone's pretty much first or second generation and really modern and liberal. (People here are actually really chill, too... not super high crime in the city, really diverse, and pretty clean!)

[firepokemon]

I'm just looking forward to two years time where I can say. Obama was a fucking lier. But till then I'll picture him Naked being spit-roasted.

[Toxicity]

First of all...holy crap, Firepokemon; that's graphic.

Second, I'll probably be too preoccupied with education in the midst of history. All I can say is best of luck to Obama, though backed him I did not, and hopefully history will be kinder to Dubya than we were.

[Master Rudy]

I'm just looking forward to two years time where I can say. Obama was a fucking lier. But till then I'll picture him Naked being spit-roasted.

Well this is a first.....we agree on something. HOLY CRAP!

[homeofmew]

one place you don't wanna be 1/20/09
Washington DC = CHAOS

[Crystal Mew]

I'm just looking forward to two years time where I can say. Obama was a fucking lier.

my thoughts exactly.
but I'm curious to see how he'll change the country, and if everyone made the right choice in voting for him.

also, I don't want to be anywhere near DC on tuesday. I'll probably be at work anyways.

[Magmar]

I'm printing a newspaper on Tuesday. It's going to be hell getting that paper together with all the Obama shit flying around. JUST realized that. Why couldn't they inaugurate him on Martin Luther King day or something, when... we all have the day off. I'll probably have to work both my jobs on that day. At least Bush is gone.

[palamon]

Barak obama is not black he is Biracial my mom told me......... I wonder what it's going to be like with Barack in charge..

[Jeff]

True, but he is the first president to at least be partially black.

[Heald]

All this talk about race frankly disgusts me. It is like the 1800s when doctors went to places like Ireland, South America, Africa, China and Australia and tried to categorise everyone into sub-human species, and labelling people as Congoids or Mongloids and such instead of human beings. Whether or not he is fully African-American is completely superfluous, because one of the key issues of him becoming the first black President was whether the heartland racist American still existed, or at least whether it was still a significant portion of the vote, whether they would not vote for him purely because he was black, and he is black, and I doubt the racists out there would think, 'Oh, he's only half black so that's okay'.

[Asilynne]

Heald, no offense but where were you during the months before the election >.> Everyone in my area was even PROUD to say that the reason they were voting for him was because hes "black". I know you only really see whats on TV about it since you arent here among people in the US, but here in the Northern VA/DC area just about 90% of people Ive talked to (among all the customers/coworkers at my work and at Rudy's work) said they were voting for Obama either 1) They wanted to be a part of history, 2)They were black and felt good to have a "brother" in the running, 3) Because he was black and they felt good about smacking racism in the face by voting for him, or 4) They didnt like Sarah Palin/John McCain.

I realize that some people actually voted for him because of his policies, but in my area (and keep in mind, Virginia turned blue this election) it didnt seem to be the prevailant attitude. So this talk about race might disgust you, but even though both Obama and McCain were careful to leave race out of all discussions, it was unfortunately very much on the minds of most of America. So I will have to agree with you, it is very sad that race is such an issue in peoples minds, black or white.

Edit: Before this topic turns into a fiasco, Im pretty sure that everyone here who doesnt want Obama in office has their reasons and those reasons have nothing to do with race. And all of us know by now that he is half black half white, so he is our first mixed president and thats just as historic as the first black pres. So this topic need not go further off topic than it already has (and always does lol).

On another note, signs on 66 are now saying "DC EVENT JAN 20, EXPECT DELAYS" making it the biggest understatement of 2009 so far lol

[Jeff]

I was about to say the same thing. There was indeed racism in this election, racism goes both ways you know. When I voted, I didn't look at race. I just saw two men, one of which I felt would make a better president and voted for him. It actually upsets me that there were so many people out there who voted for Obama just so they could help "end racism". They clearly have no idea what racism is.

[Heald]

I know that there were probably as many people who voted for him because he was black as there were those who voted for McCain purely because they didn't want a black man in office, don't get me wrong, but those very same people probably didn't care whether he was mixed race or whatever, but all the talk of trying to classify him as some sort of half-black hybrid or something in order to detract from a historical event just smacks of outdated and obsolete language that was left behind in the 1800s.

The fact is, the terms 'African American' and 'Black' are interchangeable (at least in the context of discussing black Americans), and an African American is defined as any American with African ancestry (specifically, Sub-Saharan African), and Barack calls himself black and African American, so he is the first black President.

[Toxicity]

The fact is, the terms 'African American' and 'Black' are interchangeable (at least in the context of discussing black Americans), and an African American is defined as any American with African ancestry (specifically, Sub-Saharan African), and Barack calls himself black and African American, so he is the first black President.

It's as if he reverted his own classifications to the early 20th century, when you could be even 51% percent white but because of the remaining 49%, you were immediately 100% black.

I just hope 2012 won't be as cutthroat as this election was, considering the significant bias the media had in regards towards Obama; their portrayal of the candidates probably had the largest role in this election, even moreso than those who had race in mind the entire time they were in the voting booth.

[Roy Karrde]

Well Chavez is back in the media. The Venezuelan nut job who is quickly becoming a Far Leftist Dictator of the little country. He decided to open his mouth about Obama, saying he had the stench of Bush on him. Since Chavez likes to compare Bush to the devil, that pretty much means he is saying Obama smells like the devil.

Even more it seems that now he is threatening Obama's life.

"If Obama as president of the United States does not obey the orders of the empire, they will kill him, like they killed Kennedy, like they killed Martin Luther King, or Lincoln, who freed the blacks and paid with his life."

So... how much longer till we can kill Chavez?

[Master Rudy]

Well Chavez is back in the media. The Venezuelan nut job who is quickly becoming a Far Leftist Dictator of the little country. He decided to open his mouth about Obama, saying he had the stench of Bush on him. Since Chavez likes to compare Bush to the devil, that pretty much means he is saying Obama smells like the devil.

It's very unfair of him to compare Mr. Obama to President Bush. In fact it's a downright insult......

.....to Bush :P

[Jeff]

All the other insane dictators already support Obama, so I don't think any more of him just because one of them doesn't.

Anyway, Chavez is a wacko. It doesn't matter who's running the US, he'll always have something negative/crazy to say about them and the country as a whole.

[mr_pikachu]

It is sort of funny that, for all our worrying about nutcases around the world, we've got one of the biggest crazies just off the coastline. Then again, I suppose proximity no longer matters now that the big dogs have rockets.

Getting back on topic! The inauguration's tomorrow... one of my students is preparing to be absent Wednesday because she probably won't be back yet. Those of you in D.C. (or just keeping track of the traffic), how insane do you think the trips there and back will be?

[Master Rudy]

Those of you in D.C. (or just keeping track of the traffic), how insane do you think the trips there and back will be?

Well DC traffic is a pain in the ass on a normal day. As for tommorow I can only imagine. I-66 going east from the Fairfax, VA area is going to be closed at the Capitol Beltway. Pretty sure the same is being done for 95 north in the same general area. Overall if you live in VA you won't be going to DC by way of car tommorow. Only way in and out will be on Metro and the lines will be long. Of course you could tell people this for a month and you'll still have morons trying to get it at the last minute. I can only imagine how it will be for the out of towners.

In other words it's going to be a fucking mess. I'm personally not even going to touch 66 with a 100 foot pole until after the 21st.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?&1c=Washington&1s=DC&2c=Chicago&2s=IL
Mapquest is saying about 12 hours to go from DC to Chicago. I'm assuming it's going to be hell trying to leave DC in any given direction once people start to go home. I'd say tack on at least 3-5 for a possible traffic jam and at least another 2-3 to account for the fact Mapquest sucks. So about 17-20 hours to get back not counting other traffic jams your friend may hit during any given rush hour (bear in mind she'll be passing very close to Pittsburgh and Cleveland as well)

[Jeff]

As I mentioned, unlike Virginia, Maryland's roads going into DC will be open. Thankfully though, school doesn't start for me until Wednesday, so I don't have to go anywhere tomorrow. My school is right outside of Annapolis and with all those cars trying to pass through the city on their way to DC, the traffic will no doubt be horrendous. Heck, there's traffic there even from normal commutes, it just doesn't usually make it back to where I have to get off. Of course tomorrow will no doubt be another story. I'm not going anywhere near Route 50.

Oh yeah, my dad's spending the night at his office tonight, and that's for two reasons: 1, he works for the state highway administration, so with all the anticipated traffic, he and the people he works with will be important, and 2, his office is near DC, enough said.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Haa! They'll show it here too, 18.30 Finland time on YLE TV1. I didn't know. Perhaps I'll watch it.

[mr_pikachu]

Congratulations to Barack Obama, who at noon today officially became the 44th President of the United States of America. I wish him the best over the next four years.

[Heald]

...and already the world seems to be a brighter place.

Not specifically because of Obama, but because that useless prick Bush no longer has his finger on a big red shiny button.

[classy_cat18]

Heh, he had a bit of trouble with the swearing in part. But you gotta give him props for the speech he's giving afterwards.

[Jeff]

Yeah, most people only hear him talk when he's giving a speech, but when he's saying something that hasn't been rehearsed, he makes Bush look like the most articulate person that has ever lived. Oh yeah, I'm looking forward to four years of Obamaisms.:P

[Mew Master]

I watched the Inaguration with the Geoscience department in our new Geovisualization center (formerly a Comp lab) and I will be the first to admit, that when Obama said "Restore Science to it's rightful place" my inner Homer Simpson went "WHOO HOO!"

There was also the comment made about colleges, universities, and schools that needed to be addressed. I will admit that this next four years has me a bit optimistic.

[Jeff]

Here's the transcript of the oath as taken by Obama. (http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2009/01/20/roberts-obama-jumble-presidential-oath-of-office/) Can anyone say Fail to the Chief?:P

[Heald]

Err, from what I read, he got one word out of place and that is because the guy who was reciting it got it wrong. I don't know why the whole internet seems to be exploding with LOL HE GOT IT WRONG HE'S NOT PRESIDENT STUPID DICK. It's not so bad here, but other forums are just being ridiculous.

As for being as inarticulate as Bush, which Bush are we talking about here? Because no one could make the outgoing president, who is nothing but a gibbering chimp, sound articulate.

[Jeff]

They both messed up. First, Obama started early. Then, Roberts misplaced the word "faithfully", caught the mistake, and repeated himself to fix the mistake. Then when Obama repeated that line, he made the same mistake Roberts made. But regardless, Obama is still the president. The constitution doesn't require a new president to take the oath before assuming the presidency. The presidency is automatically assumed at noon DC time.

Edit: Oh snap! The article I read was wrong! The constitution says:



Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."


But I still don't think that means anything, the meaning of the oath wasn't lost in the version Obama took, so he is still president. After all, he did still make the affirmation, even though he worded it slightly differently.

[mr_pikachu]

Yeah, I kind of chuckled at the multiple slip-ups by both Obama and Roberts (starting early, transposing words, etc). It was just kind of funny; you can tell that both of them are new to this. ^_^ A month from now, though, I doubt anyone will remember the incident... we'll all be arguing over policies and such.

Okay. Time for my critical analysis.

I was a little surprised by how many political statements were slipped into Obama's speech. I'll be the first to admit having almost zero experience with inauguration speeches: aside from notable quotes here and there, I've never really listened to an inauguration address. He said a lot, though, about changing policies in the Middle East (extending a hand instead of a fist, to paraphrase), pursuing alternative forms of energy, and so forth.

The line that really stunned me was his commentary on those who don't think it can all be done. It wasn't so much a hopeful "Yes We Can" kind of message... that would have made sense. The way he framed it instead felt rather polarizing. I wasn't expecting rhetoric like this (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090120/ap_on_go_pr_wh/inauguration_obama_text) in his inauguration address:


Now, there are some who question the scale of our ambitions — who suggest that our system cannot tolerate too many big plans. Their memories are short. For they have forgotten what this country has already done; what free men and women can achieve when imagination is joined to common purpose, and necessity to courage.

What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them — that the stale political arguments that have consumed us for so long no longer apply.

That last line in particular threw me for a loop, as it's a totally unveiled attack on those who are trying to prioritize spending rather than cram in everything. Granted, if Obama can accomplish all he claims to be planning without hurting the country, then more power to him. But call me a doubter... as someone who, from the very start, hasn't trusted that it could all be done at once, he's basically just called me the enemy. Talking about the budget debate in the same breath as the past evils of "fascism and communism" as well as racism felt like he was putting me and anyone else on my "side" on the same level as those groups. It verged on indirectly insulting, actually.

In short, this is just a new take on the "You're either with us or against us" mantra of the last eight years, with nothing but a new set of issues to define the battle. I'll admit that I expected this to happen eventually, but not from day one.

[RedStarWarrior]

I love going to bed with one president and waking up with another.


(God, I'm lazy)

[Mew Master]

I really think people are blowing mis-speaking an oath following an orator out of proportion. People make mistakes. There was a mix up, that's fine. Everyone jumped on Bush because he was an IDiot, and made it evidently so every time he opened his mouth.

[mr_pikachu]

Both Obama and Roberts slipped up a little, and you can argue that the most notable Obama slip was caused by Roberts. That's all nothing but a fun chuckle, really. I'm more concerned with what was said during the inauguration address, as that could set the tone for the next four years.

[Toxicity]

To me, Obama's speech sounded as if he scrunched Kennedy's address into a smaller, modernized version, but in the process came off as intimidating; thus you either agree with him, or you're afraid of "remaking America." All the while I heard others fawning over him by saying things such as, "Oh, he's such an adorable, great orator!"

I understand he's said it before, but I also believe Lowery's benediction will be more remembered than Obama's inaugural speech:


Lord, in the memory of all the saints who from their labors rest, and in the joy of a new beginning, we ask you to help us work for that day when black will not be asked to get in back, when brown can stick around, when yellow will be mellow, when the red man can get ahead, man; and when white will embrace what is right.

That all those who do justice and love mercy say Amen. Say Amen.

Also, best of wishes to Ted Kennedy and Robert Byrd in spite of their beliefs. Should be noted that Obama was willing to confirm Kennedy's collapse, but no mention of Byrd's.

[mr_pikachu]

Yeah, that was a wacky line, Toxicity. Not only was it another not-so-subtle "It's still 1960, and whitey's a racist!" jab, but the way it was delivered felt more like a protest chant than a prayer.

For a day that was supposed to prove how our country is a shining example of unity, it's been surprisingly divisive.

[Dark Scizor]

I don't know why the whole internet seems to be exploding with LOL HE GOT IT WRONG HE'S NOT PRESIDENT STUPID DICK. It's not so bad here, but other forums are just being ridiculous.
Internet.

That's why.

[Dark Sage]

In regards to the goof, Roberts appeared to take responsibility for it later, and that's kinda how I saw it too. And in Roberts' defense, this was his first inauguration.

Personally, I think folks are making a mountain out of a molehill.

[Roy Karrde]

I have to agree with Toxicity in that the line will be remembered. It was disturbing, insulting and disgusting, and I am shocked that Obama's transition team allowed it to be included. Because you know that they went over with a fine tooth comb.

As for Obama's speech. It was medium of the road in terms of inauguration addresses. But the hype around it was insane, how Obama wrote it by hand, how he studied Lincoln, Kennedy, and Reagan's speeches. With the over hype for it, it just failed, and really that isn't his fault, nor is it his fault that after two years of campaigning he went more toward his comfort zone in having a red meat campaign speech than a inaugural speech.

As for Heald:

A: Listen to a couple of Obama's speeches in which he doesn't have a script of any kind. He is very Bush like in his speech patterns. But really that comes from being used to a teleprompter than having to think on his feet.

B: As for the useless Prick Comment about Bush, I just hope you and all those childish idiots in the crowd singing "Hey Hey Hey Good Bye" will remember that its 4 years of Obama now, and Republicans have every right to treat Obama like scum and dirt in the way many treated Bush for 8 years.

And as much as people want to talk about Unity and Coming together for Obama. The absolutely disgusting display in the crowd today toward Bush, shows that all it is, is empty words.

[Heald]

B: As for the useless Prick Comment about Bush, I just hope you and all those childish idiots in the crowd singing "Hey Hey Hey Good Bye" will remember that its 4 years of Obama now, and Republicans have every right to treat Obama like scum and dirt in the way many treated Bush for 8 years.

And as much as people want to talk about Unity and Coming together for Obama. The absolutely disgusting display in the crowd today toward Bush, shows that all it is, is empty words.
It's childish to celebrate the end of what in a lot of people's opinions was the worst Presidency of all time? To a lot of these people, they supported Bush, and then Bush failed to deliver. Many people feel that had Bush not gone so haphazardly into the quagmires of Afghanistan and Iraq, their children or loved ones would still be alive, and yes, I know the mantra of 'Well if you don't want to die, don't join the army' but a lot of these people don't understand what exactly their loved ones died for. To a lot of people, Bush is the devil, as hated by his own people as Saddam was by his people. I know that Saddam committed heinous acts against his people and he hanged for it, but it is not entirely disproportionate; many people do have a level of hate for Bush that strong, and I doubt you were complaining with the way Saddam was treated when his rule came to an end.

Whether Barack will be any better or worse, only time can tell. No one could tell how well Bush was going to do, and definitely could not have foreseen 9/11 and how that affected his government. But for a lot of people, me included, this isn't just a day celebrating a new President, in fact, I'm sure there is a sizeable portion of people celebrating the fact they no longer have to look at Bush as their supreme leader.

Besides, Republicans don't have a right to do anything at the moment. Bush was a useless President and deserved all the crap he got; no one did it just because they felt like it.

At the moment, the international community is in your hand: more or less every country who Bush pissed off in the last 8 years (so, pretty much every sovereign nation on the planet, apart from Israel, of course) loves Obama and is willing to stand beside you, instead of opposing you. Hell, even the Yank-hating UK was jubilant today and ready to love America. The world is quite literally your oyster.

[Roy Karrde]

It's childish to celebrate the end of what in a lot of people's opinions was the worst Presidency of all time?

Worst Presidency of all time shows absolutely uninformed they are.

As for childish, in a atmosphere that was supposed to be filled with Unity, and coming together. To act that way. Yes it was childish.


Many people feel that had Bush not gone so haphazardly into the quagmires of Afghanistan and Iraq, their children or loved ones would still be alive, and yes, I know the mantra of 'Well if you don't want to die, don't join the army' but a lot of these people don't understand what exactly their loved ones died for.

I would say that those people need to learn what Quagmire actually means. And that they know what their children were fighting for, in Afghanistan most of all.


To a lot of people, Bush is the devil, as hated by his own people as Saddam was by his people.

Which is a insult to the hundreds of thousands of Saddam's own people that he gassed, tortured, and tossed into mass graves. To compare Bush to Saddam shows a pathetic, a absolutely PATHETIC lack of knowledge.


I know that Saddam committed heinous acts against his people and he hanged for it, but it is not entirely disproportionate;

Oh yes it is. OH YES IT IS.


many people do have a level of hate for Bush that strong, and I doubt you were complaining with the way Saddam was treated when his rule came to an end.

And as I said there is a absolute MAJOR difference between Bush and Saddam. If you cannot see that then there are not words to describe how horribly disgusting you are.


Whether Barack will be any better or worse, only time can tell. No one could tell how well Bush was going to do,

And beginning on Day 1, people began to hate Bush. From the minute he took the oath of office they could not stand him because of what happened in Florida. Bush did not get a benifit of a doubt, why the hell should Obama?



Besides, Republicans don't have a right to do anything at the moment. Bush was a useless President and deserved all the crap he got; no one did it just because they felt like it.

In your view he was, not in mine. And as badly as Democrats treated Bush started on Day 1. Republicans have every right to treat Obama just as horribly. PERIOD.


At the moment, the international community is in your hand: more or less every country who Bush pissed off in the last 8 years (so, pretty much every sovereign nation on the planet, apart from Israel, of course) loves Obama and is willing to stand beside you, instead of opposing you. Hell, even the Yank-hating UK was jubilant today and ready to love America. The world is quite literally your oyster.

Give it a year, Obama will do something that pisses off the International Community and they will turn on him just as they turned on nearly every President. For Obama to please even half the International community it is impossible. So yes, give it a year.

[Blademaster]

B: As for the useless Prick Comment about Bush, I just hope you and all those childish idiots in the crowd singing "Hey Hey Hey Good Bye" will remember that its 4 years of Obama now, and Republicans have every right to treat Obama like scum and dirt in the way many treated Bush for 8 years.

Uh, no they don't. Until Obama:

-disappears for a day and a half in the middle of the biggest crisis of the history of the country
-lets the economy fall into a $10 trillion hole
-invades 2 countries for no reason other than general misinformation
-lets half of a coastal city sink into the ocean and its people bob around on rooftops for 4 days
-decides that it's a good idea to piss off the entire continent of Europe because God said he's special and can do whatever he wants to whoever he wants
-and nearly gets bitchslapped by a pair of Muslim Nikes

...Then, and ONLY then, will you and the rest of the inhabitants of Republicanstan be able to smirk at us and say "We told you so.". Until then, you can all kindly sit at the kiddy's table and color while the grown-ups fix the mess you've caused over the past 8 years, kthnx.


EDIT: Also, try and refrain from the name-calling and the patented Roy Karrde method of debating if you want to look credible. Two nearly impossible tasks, I know, but this IS a day of unity and such after all.

[Roy Karrde]

Uh, no they don't. Until Obama:

-disappears for a day and a half in the middle of the biggest crisis of the history of the country
-lets the economy fall into a $10 trillion hole
-invades 2 countries for no reason other than general misinformation
-lets half of a coastal city sink into the ocean and its people bob around on rooftops for 4 days
-decides that it's a good idea to piss off the entire continent of Europe because God said he's special and can do whatever he wants to whoever he wants
-and nearly gets bitchslapped by a pair of Muslim Nikes

...Then, and ONLY then, will you and the rest of the inhabitants of Republicanstan be able to smirk at us and say "We told you so.". Until then, you can all kindly sit at the kiddy's table and color while the grown-ups fix the mess you've caused over the past 8 years, kthnx.

Umm Democrats were attacking Bush on Day 1 as he took the oath of office. All of those things that happened, many of which are not Bush's fault, and one of them shows a lack of understanding for the Afghanistan war, happened far after Democrats began to attack Bush.


EDIT: Also, try and refrain from the name-calling and the patented Roy Karrde method of debating if you want to look credible. Two nearly impossible tasks, I know, but this IS a day of unity and such after all.

This coming from Blademaster, just had to laugh XD

[Mew Master]

Heald: Well put. While the future can never be predicted, even I am feeling optimistic about this transition.

[Dark Sage]

Roy, your dislike for Obama is well-known, and your arguments do not hold water in my book. You're a sore loser.

You say people were hating Bush at day one? People like you were bashing Obama for the past two years, spreading dumb rumors about him being a Muslim and being ineligible to hold the office. I've learned not to let these misguided people bother me any more.

The fact that the Democrats were going to win the White House had been established before Obama officially declared he was running. In the election, the Republicans only won states that were traditionally Republican, and they lost a few of those too.

Don't tell me that we made a mistake. Bush was a bad president, and I have a great deal of faith in Obama.

[Heald]

Worst Presidency of all time shows absolutely uninformed they are.Perhaps, but time heals wounds, and people are more likely to be pissed off with a crap President now than a crap President 20 years ago.

I would say that those people need to learn what Quagmire actually means. And that they know what their children were fighting for, in Afghanistan most of all.
Bush never convinced these people that these wars were worth fighting for. Pro-tip: standing up and saying Mission Accomplished only a few months into a war and then letting 2000 body-bags pile up tends to piss people off.

blah blah blah I completely take his argument out of context and use lots of LARGE CAPITAL LETTERS
You completely missed the point. I personally wasn't comparing Saddam to Bush, I know Saddam is a butcher and an evil man and to even compare his crimes with Bush is ridiculous. What I was obviously comparing was the hatred many Americans felt towards Bush and the hatred many Iraqis felt towards Saddam, and Saddam hanged for it. I'm sure there's more than a few people who feel Bush ought to hang. Again, so we're clear; not comparing Bush and Saddam, comparing the people who hate them. Also, I'm not saying the people who hate Bush legitimately do (because I think we can all agree all of the Iraqis could legitimately hate Saddam), but there was, and still is, a definite level of hatred for Bush, rational or otherwise.


And beginning on Day 1, people began to hate Bush. From the minute he took the oath of office they could not stand him because of what happened in Florida. Bush did not get a benifit of a doubt, why the hell should Obama?
And look what happened to Obama, the guy reading out the oath makes several screw-ups and now look at all the cons screaming about him messing up the oath. So I guess Republicans couldn't even wait for him to finish the oath before judging him :v

[Roy Karrde]

Roy, your dislike for Obama is well-known, and your arguments do not hold water in my book. You're a sore loser.

If you notice all of my opening post was talking about the mistakes that were made and were not Obama's fault.


You say people were hating Bush at day one? People like you were bashing Obama for the past two years, spreading dumb rumors about him being a Muslim and being ineligible to hold the office. I've learned not to let these misguided people bother me any more.

And you don't think there was that hatred during the 2000 Campaigns? Also you will notice never ever have I brought up those points before. Infact on other forums I have defended Obama from such nonsense.


Don't tell me that we made a mistake. Bush was a bad president, and I have a great deal of faith in Obama.

I would love to see in this topic where you saw that I said that we made a mistake.


Bush never convinced these people that these wars were worth fighting for. Pro-tip: standing up and saying Mission Accomplished only a few months into a war and then letting 2000 body-bags pile up tends to piss people off.

Oh I believe that is the stupidest moment of the Bush Presidency. Now granted the Mission was Accomplished, the original mission was to bring down Saddam's regime and that was accomplished. But it just sent absolutely the wrong message.


You completely missed the point.

Yes and I have apologised to you over the IM chat. Really I don't have the brain power to debate you tonight XD Infact my starting post I didn't even intend for it to be debateable as I tried to make the first half as Pro Obama as possible.

[Mew Master]

This coming from Blademaster, just had to laugh XD

Um... yes. However it's more based in the fact that you should really learn to articulate your argument and point without resulting to insults at other people's expense just because they can spot holes in your claims.

So being called on this by Blademaster is indeed funny. Be humbled for once that someone caught you on your shite, and by one who gives as well as he takes.

[Blademaster]

Yes and I have apologised to you over the IM chat.

A-HEM.

Was I not laughed at a few minutes ago over some such name-calling something-or-other...?

[Toxicity]

Blademaster, I think the only criticism I have to disagree with of yours is Bush taking the brunt of the Katrina dilemma when Nagin and Blanco were just as, if not more, guilty. I'm not going to go into specifics, but it led to better precautions this past season under Jindal.

With that being stated, I'll just depart before this thread gets too nuts.

[Heald]

Obama retakes Oath (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/obama_inauguration/7843881.stm)

Obama decided to retake the Oath, just to stop any frivolous lawsuits from idiots with too much time on their hands I suppose.

On the flip-side however, I bet someone will challenge his bid to rerun for President, saying since he was sworn in twice, he has had two terms :rolleyes:

[Mew Master]

On the flip-side however, I bet someone will challenge his bid to rerun for President, saying since he was sworn in twice, he has had two terms :rolleyes:

I've seen someone try to argue that he's our second black president because from 12:00 to 12:03, Rice was president. He tries to base this on the Constitution, but however I don't see where this entire thing takes into effect since the VP was sworn in first, before Obama was. So even if Obama wasn't sworn in, which is addressed in the constitution as saying he must take the oath before taking office, I think the argument is a stale attempt and raising a rally against it.

[Jeff]

Mr Obama did not swear on a Bible

OMG he's still not president!

Anyway, Mew Master, you can tell them that Amendment XX, Section 1 states that at noon the old president's term expires and the new one's begins. Article II, Section 1 states that a president cannot begin to fulfill his presidential duties until he is sworn in. So put those together and Obama was indeed president for those three minutes, he just didn't have any power.

[Master Rudy]

-disappears for a day and a half in the middle of the biggest crisis of the history of the country

Disappear? In all fairness Blade when 9/11 happened did you honestly expect the Secret Service to leave Bush out in the open? At that point in time they played it safe since no one knew if there may have been something else planned. If it had been Gore in Bush's place on that faithful day they would have hidden him just as well.

Thankfully it wasn't Gore.....he'd have blaimed 9/11 on either Global Warming or Manbearpig :P

[Mew Master]

Disappear? In all fairness Blade when 9/11 happened did you honestly expect the Secret Service to leave Bush out in the open? At that point in time they played it safe since no one knew if there may have been something else planned. If it had been Gore in Bush's place on that faithful day they would have hidden him just as well.

Thankfully it wasn't Gore.....he'd have blaimed 9/11 on either Global Warming or Manbearpig :P

Um.. Rudy... methinks Blade was referring to the Katrina incident, not 9/11...

[Jeff]

Still though, I don't get why everyone keeps knocking Bush for that when most of the blame lies with the mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Louisiana. If a natural disaster occurs somewhere, the president can declare that place a disaster area, but it's usually the states' responsibility to take care of the situation first.

[Mew Master]

Plus the fact that he didn't show up immediately is a good thing. Because if you bring the president to an area that has a lot of activity, his presence would only make things worse because of the secret service securing areas and people unable to really do their jobs in clean up. But it still would have been a more morale boost if he had at least gotten on Television and made an address on the incident right after it happened.

*shrug*

[Master Rudy]

And I'm pretty sure he means 9/11 because it's not the first time I've heard that arguement.


-disappears for a day and a half in the middle of the biggest crisis of the history of the country
-lets the economy fall into a $10 trillion hole
-invades 2 countries for no reason other than general misinformation
-lets half of a coastal city sink into the ocean and its people bob around on rooftops for 4 days
-decides that it's a good idea to piss off the entire continent of Europe because God said he's special and can do whatever he wants to whoever he wants
-and nearly gets bitchslapped by a pair of Muslim Nikes

In the event he did mean Katrina then why list it twice? Yes it was expensive and yes there was a massive loss of life and many injured but it sure as hell wasn't "the biggest crisis in the history of the United States"

Katrina
-1,836 dead
-705 missing and presumed dead
(couldn't find a number for injures)

9/11
-2,998 dead
-6,000+ injured
-24 missing and presumed dead

Now in terms of cost Katrina was far worse. However the loss of life in New York, DC and Shanksville can't be matched. As for blaming Bush I say don't. I think the fact that the local govenment fucked things up did more harm than anything else. Remember all those unused school buses that the mayor didn't use to get people out of there?

[Dark Sage]

On the flip-side however, I bet someone will challenge his bid to rerun for President, saying since he was sworn in twice, he has had two terms

I believe that the Constitution does NOT say that the President cannot serve more than two terms. I believe it says that a man may not serve as President for longer than ten years total. How can a President serve ten years? Well, if he was VP, for instance, and took over for a President halfway though a term, and then served two terms on his own, then he could serve ten years.

So technically, a President can serve three terms, so long as one of them isn't longer than a specific amount of time. If a nutcase argued that Obama's first term lasted two days, then he could easily serve two more, in accordance with the Constitution.

[Jeff]

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Additional_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constit ution#Amendment_XXII



No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.


Obama can be sworn in 50 times if he likes, the fact still remains that he has only been elected once. And therefore, can be elected again.

[Blademaster]

I did mean 9/11. If nothing else...


But it still would have been a more morale boost if he had at least gotten on Television and made an address on the incident right after it happened.

...Denny nailed it.

[Dark Sage]

Before I say this, let it be known, I despise Bush, and blame him for a great deal of the mess that our country is in.

However, I must defend him on that issue. I remember that, when the 9/11 terrorist attacks happened, he was making a public appearance at a school somewhere. He could not have made a televised appearance at that exact time.