2009 Victorian bushfires

[shazza]

With the death toll now at 181 and expecting to surpass 300, the 2009 Victorian bushfires has become the deadliest natural disaster in Australia's history. Over 1,000 houses have now been destroyed, with fears the worst is still yet to come.

I myself reside in the state of Victoria, however I'm fortunate to be away from any major fires. However, my university residence is pretty close to one of the fire's (10 minute drive), but there's little chance for the fire to reach that way. I know a few people who have had their house burnt down, and I was pretty shocked and saddened to hear about Brian Naylor's death (veteran newsreader in Australia that I used to love as a kid).

Has it been frequent news for those overseas? What would you do if a bushfire was rapidly coming towards you and your home?

[DarkestLight]

Grab my memory cards and run.

I'm not even kidding, that's how serious I am. I have most all the memory devices I need in one area, one quick swoop; they're in a bag and I'm gone. Every single other thing is completely replaceable.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

That's horrible, I've been worried about you Australians. I hope they get it under control and no more lives be lost. Yep, I have followed the situation and the last time I heard about it in the news they said some of the bushfires were inflamed in purpose.

But this topic came in a right time, our English class wanted information on the forest-fires. I was first going to PM shazza but thought that would be macabre to send the message only to get some material, so I didn't.

Who other Australian TPMers live in Victoria by the way?

[shazza]

Grab my memory cards and run.

I'm not even kidding, that's how serious I am. I have most all the memory devices I need in one area, one quick swoop; they're in a bag and I'm gone. Every single other thing is completely replaceable.

Man, I need to plan like you.



But this topic came in a right time, our English class wanted information on the forest-fires. I was first going to PM shazza but thought that would be macabre to send the message only to get some material, so I didn't.

I don't mind at all, man. Go right ahead and ask me anything and I'll try to help as much as I can.


Who other Australian TPMers live in Victoria by the way?

Well according to your club, I'm not sure. Maybe Last Exile and Gavin Luper do as well? OzAndrew is Queensland and PancaKe is NSW; I'm not sure about the rest. I believe I'm the only one in country Victoria. Former members Ash_300 and Vidgamer are from Victoria.

[mr_pikachu]

Yeah, we've heard quite a bit about the fires here (online, anyway). I read an article earlier today saying that the whole area has been designated a crime scene, as they think it may have been maliciously started. Terrible, terrible stuff.

Oh, and Gavin lives in Perth, I believe. As for LE, I don't think he counts as a TPMer anymore. *tries to remember where Ada lives*

Stay safe, everyone. Our prayers are with you.

[Mystic_clown]

I live in SA, but I've got relatives in Victoria.

[Gavin Luper]

I have to admit, I'd become pretty unaffected by all the news stories about bushfires, because they happen every summer, and usually everything's fine. I drove pretty close to one (10 -15 kms away - a safe distance!) on my way home a few weeks ago, so you just kind of assume that generally, the firefighters are quick to respond and ta-da, everything's peachy.

So I was a bit shocked when all this happened. So many people dead - more than the Bali bombings, by the looks of it. It's horrific, absolutely horrific.

The positive side of this is how many organisations are donating money. Apparently Coles, the supermarket, is donating all of their profits made this Friday to the bushfire appeal, so if you need to do your shopping on Friday, go there!

As for whether I'd "stay or go" in that scenario ... I'd go, no question about it. But it depends. If it's just a high alert, would you want to evacuate every time that happens? It's hardly practical to move half the state every other day during the summer. At the same time, if a fire has broken out - or, is "rapidly coming towards you and your home" - I'd be out of there. I wouldn't give a crap about my house, I'd rather protect my life and that of my family.

[Mystic_clown]

I just read something today in the paper which just bloody infuriates me. A christian group went out and claimed the bushfires happened because of Victoria's abortion laws.

What the fuck!? D:<

[Gavin Luper]

Oh, and Gavin lives in Perth, I believe. As for LE, I don't think he counts as a TPMer anymore. *tries to remember where Ada lives*

I alternate between Perth and a little regional town up in the midwest, where I come from. Luckily the vegetation is too sparse up there to ever be a massive risk factor - or, so I think.

Ada's from Melbourne, and LE is from Adelaide.

[Crazy Elf Boy]

Well at my flat in Uni the was a fire in our kitchen and when all the alarms went off I thought it was my clock alarm so I hit the snooze button on it and went back to sleep. The people came bursting in my door to tell me to get out, even then I still thought the sound was coming form my TV so I spent at least a minute looking for my TV remote and trying to go back to bed. But in the case of a real fire I would do what DL would and grab my memory cards.

One of my friends was in Victoria not too long ago but I don't think she was there for long enough to be in any danger of fires.

[Blademaster]

Holy shit, man.

How does something like this happen?

[Little_Pikachu]

I hear about bush fires in Austailia pretty much every year, but this one is on another level. It's been in the news a lot over here and the pictures are horrific. My friend currently lives in Switzerland and she's meant to be moving over to Austrailia next week, not sure where but hopefully it's out of the way of all this. I hope it subsides soon and the damage and loss of life can be kept to a minimum.

[DarkestLight]

If it is maliciously intended, that person I hope died in their own joke >>

If its Nature just having a really hot day, then ..that really sucks and yes, ya'll stay safe down there.


I got a friend going to Australia, but I think she's going to Melbourne. Even so, scary stuff all around.

[Mystic_clown]

I heard somewhere that the fire was caused by a spark from a power tool, but I'm not sure.

[Drago]

Outer Melbourne suburbs resident here - I'm okay, too.

A bushfire or two was to be expected with the recent heatwave, but this really knocked all of us for a loop; It's been plastered all over everyone's screens and with good reason - it's a horrible disaster that could've happened anywhere here in Australia to anyone - my girlfriend's mother-in-law's cousin lost their life. I know, it's a bit of an obscure connection, but just goes to show that pretty much everyone knows someone who's been affected.

I think Rudd said it best when he referred to intentional lighting of these fires as mass murder - it's just an inexcusable crime that should be shown no leniency. To have hurt so many simply can't be tolerated...


What would you do if a bushfire was rapidly coming towards you and your home?
Currently, I have no bushfire plans, simply because I'm a stupid enough prat to still surmise that it'll never happen to me. It's scary to know, some people had 5 minutes warning to evacuate, then it was all gone. I'd probably flee, but it's been just as bad outside of the houses for some people as in - especially for those poor family that tried hiding in their pool - god that was horrible news.

[Blademaster]

...

A spark from a power tool? THAT is what's burning down half the state of Victoria?

Man, I feel bad for you guys, but don't you have fire departments down there? How do you guys stop something like this?

[PancaKe]

Man, I feel bad for you guys, but don't you have fire departments down there? How do you guys stop something like this?

There aren't enough firemen in the entire state of Victoria to be fighting the fires and evacuating nearby towns and backburning at all different parts of the state at the same time. There are many volunteer firefighters as well; but the simple fact is - the fires are just too big regardless of the number of firefighters fighting.

When there were the real big bushfires in Sydney in 2001; my cousins stayed behind to fight off their house. They were scooping buckets of water from their pool and tossing it onto the fire and hosing down the fences and stuff - and they very narrowly missed it. It scorched a few trees in the paddocks and bush that their houses backed on to.


I just read something today in the paper which just bloody infuriates me. A christian group went out and claimed the bushfires happened because of Victoria's abortion laws.

That disgusts me. There is no way that the fires are "from God to punish abortion laws". Yeah; God's not pleased with them; but a raging bushfire as an answer?

It sickens me that those Christian guys went and misquoted the bible in order to support their case as well. They just give other Christians a bad name >=(

[Crazy Elf Boy]

I just wish we could get some of the water in the north down to the south. Also that stuff about Christians blaming abortions for the fires is just stooping to a new level of low.

[Gavin Luper]

I just wish we could get some of the water in the north down to the south.

That's what I keep thinking. It seems like a cruel joke that while Victoria is burning, Queensland is flooding.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Thanks, shazza. I told my English teacher and two students that I can ask everything from you and now we are thinking of questions. And other Australians can answer too I guess. If this topic isn't active when we'll get them, I'll PM them to you. I'll print this topic anyway so we can study it.

We had some forest-fires in Karelia, was it last year or the year before last year, but they weren't so serious, I don't remember if anyone was killed. In fact, they made jokes about it on TV. For background, Finland lost Karelia to Russia in the wars though it can be argued if it was originally part of Finland. Anyway, the joke was based on a Finnish wordplay, the single third person form of the word 'palata' (to return) is the same as the one of 'palaa' (to burn).

Karjala palaa Suomelle.
Karelia returns to Finland.

Karjala palaa.
Karelia is burning.

[shazza]

Yeah I read about the Christian group too. What a shallow and low accusation, and as Tara said, it does give other Christian's a bad name and a bad stereotype. What really gets to me is how The Herald Sun (tabloid Victorian newspaper) today on the frontpage had the faces of all the youngest children that lost their lives.... truly heartbreaking.

Today has been made a national day of mourning by our Prime Minister and Premier. (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25044545-661,00.html)

[PancaKe]

I rang my nan today. And she was crying.

I really want to donate and stuff; but I'm scared to donate money because - I trust the Red Cross and all, but you know how when people pool their money in for a good cause some always goes missing? And on the news they were saying about how people donated so many things; but the victims were too proud to take them. :\

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

I read about it everywhere, it's just terrible. Fucking christians, it even makes me think that all christians are like that; eventhough they're not, which can be deadly for people who believe in almost anything.

[Starry Might]

I read this topic yesterday...how absolutely awful! :(

All you Aussies have my sympathy. *HUG*

P.S. - I'm a Christian...and I totally disagree with those people who said that the fires were God's doing. :no:

[Heald]

You have an island full of convicts, and you accuse God of being an arsonist?

[mr_pikachu]

As a Christian myself, I take personal offense when people who are Christian by name but who don't live their lives as such make foolish claims and accusations that only serve to push people away and turn my religion into a negative stereotype.

That's all I'm going to say about that. I just pray for everyone involved in this tragedy.

[Katie]

my girlfriend's mother-in-law's
???

[PancaKe]

You have an island full of convicts, and you accuse God of being an arsonist?

Well said.

Except for the everyone being a convict part.

[Crazy Elf Boy]

We aren't convicts, we didn't do it. I swear I was falsely accused.

[Blademaster]

That's what they all say.

Everybody in Australia should just move to New Zealand. There's no insane wrath of God fires and floods there. No Ruddy, either. Australia's getting triple-whammied something serious this month. >>'

[PancaKe]

There's nothing worth moving to New Zealand for. We have sheep here too.

[Crazy Elf Boy]

I dont mind Rudd much, the fires might be bad but not bad enough for me to move to New Zealand. New Zealand might not have any of this phenomenom but you know what they do have? SHEEP, just sheep as far as the eye can see (No offence to any New Zealand TPMer's) But New Zealand is the last place I want to go.

Also on another Victoria Fire related topic. I really low robbery occured in a Macdonalds 2 nights ago where a young man and a young women STOLE a box full of donations that were to help the people involved in the Victorian Bushfires.

[Crystal Mew]

Has it been frequent news for those overseas? What would you do if a bushfire was rapidly coming towards you and your home?

Yes, I've heard about it alot, and I feel so bad for all of you aussies it must be horrible.

and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerro_Grande_Fire <--- a bushfire was rapidly coming towards my home...had to evacuate. but luckily we were already in the process of moving to a new city and had our new house keys already so we kinda took evacuating from there as the official move. hah. our house and my grandparents house was spared, but unfortunately our friend's house was not...and so they kinda moved into our old house temporarily till someone sent a bunch of trailers to live in.

If that were to happen again, I'd take all my pictures, and my most valuable things and drive somewhere.

[mr_pikachu]

Suspect arrested in deadly Australia fires (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090213/ap_on_re_au_an/as_australia_wildfires_132)

And in a related case, God pleads not guilty.

[Drago]

???
Righteous. I meant the mother of my girlfriend's brother-in-law. I should probably not rush family titles so frequently.

[Toxicity]

Honestly glad to hear that everybody is fine; hearing about the brushfires kept sending back a flood of memories of the scrub fire that almost forced my family to evacuate in mid-late Spring 2007. Same with the Queensland flooding. I guess it's just easiest to say that the only conflict humans will always have regardless is that with the natural world, but such an observation could easily be nullified by opinion.

As for the organization claiming God is using the fire as a punishment for the state...there will always be karma, given that they hold a belief somewhere in such a concept. :P

[PancaKe]

Today on the news, heard about a story where a firefighter died from a fallen tree branch whilst trying to help people. That stuff is so sad.

I can't believe they're still happening, while Queensland and Northern New South Wales floods like crazy. What is wrong with our country this summer?

Sydney is so full of rain. I feel guilty that we can't give any of it to Victoria.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

OK, two questions the English group I'm in wanted to ask:

1. Does the state give compensation for the houses without insurance?

2. Has the fire reached the town of Sapphire? One student has Finnish friends there.

[mistysakura]

1. This is copied and pasted from http://www.vic.gov.au/emergencies-safety/emergency-services/emergency-information/victorian-bushfires.html

Financial Assistance
Australian Government Disaster Recovery Payment (AGDRP) (Centrelink) - 180 2211 - Payments of $1,000 per eligible adult and $400 per eligible child. Claim form available.

Funeral/Memorial Assistance (Centrelink) - Claim form available.

Personal Hardship Grant: Emergency Grant (DHS) - An emergency grant of up to $1,067 is available per household for immediate and urgent accommodation, food and personal needs. The amount of each grant is based on need.

Temporary living and re-establishment grants (DHS) - A temporary living and re-establishment grant are available to people whose principal place of residence has been made uninhabitable by bushfire. These grants are means tested.

Victorian Bushfire Appeal Fund (DHS) - Currently provides a Compassion and Bereavement Payment of $10,000. This will help families with immediate needs such as funeral and travel-related costs. Claims must be made before 31 December 2009.


So it looks like compensation is given on a case-to-case basis and there's quite a bit of red tape.

[shazza]

I also read on the news that every victim/family who lost their homes are entitled to a new laptop and mobile phone?

Sapphire is in Queensland, the fires are in Victoria and thus Sapphire is safe. :)

[Blademaster]

OK, this topic is a week old. When the Hell is this gonna end? I mean, isn't Australia mostly desert? You'd think the fire would hit a dead-end by now, or at least slow down enough to get under control...

Is there like a map or something showing what's been damaged, or comparing how much has burnt compared to last week? I don't get how this can still be happening.

[RedStarWarrior]

Australians suck, but they shouldn't have to deal with this shit.

Fucking fires are insane.

I wonder if people have been monitoring to see if they'll update Google Earth...

[shazza]

There has been some recent updates on Google Earth to preview the level of devastation that had occurred.

[PancaKe]

There are fundraiser concerts and stuff happening all over the country. And as always, there is tabloid media reporting things like "firefighters left not fighting fires whilst victoria burns down" and things like that.

I just feel bad for those who evacuated and come back to find their places looted. Looters are just as low as arsonists.

[mistysakura]

Blademaster: Victoria is mostly bush, not desert. The desert's mostly in central and northern Australia. Plus Victoria's not small. Not as big as Canada (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vxDDcTc64c) though. :)

Sang in the state memorial service today, and am now bloody tired. Not from physical exertion, but from the concentration... The service was very moving. But it was what happened before the service that made me realise how the bushfire has brought out the best in (most) people. Two of my friends took a taxi to the venue, and when the taxi driver found out that they were performing at the service, he gave them a free ride. Another of my friends was waiting for a tram to get to the venue, and perfect strangers stopped to give her a lift.

[Andrew]

Is it wrong when I was watching the ceremony this morning that the entire thing would be a bit more upbeat by playing "Disco Inferno?"

[PancaKe]

Too soon Andrew... too soon.

Although it IS funny...

[shazza]

That just went too far Andrew and was indeed too soon; we have lost over 200 Australians in this horrendous disaster and you try and make a cheap joke about their deaths? Surely you possess more maturity than that, I'm really surprised at you.

Sometimes enough is enough.
































































Just kidding man, high five for the epic 'Disco Inferno' comment.

[PancaKe]

This sounds really selfish of me; but I really want to go to one of those Fire & Flood gigs they're having to raise money for these people. There are some really good bands playing.

[Dark Sage]

This is why I hate environmentalists, tree huggers and other space cadets who implore us to protect the environment, even though the environment seems to hate humanity. New Orleans is wiped out in the biggest hurricane ever to hit the states, wildfires are decimating Victoria, and idiots still tell us to spend money on protecting the environment that is trying to kill us.

You think this sounds crazy? Think about it for a minute. Has the environment ever shown us that it even likes us? I think it hates us, to tell the truth.

Edit: This theory is not mine. There are many philosophers who believe, pessimistic as it may be, that nature resents humanity for the lousy job we have done as caretakers of this planet. In other words, it may well be that all these natural disasters are retribution for our shoddy ways of taking care of the planet. Still, even if it's our fault that thee environment is a mess, the environment shouldn't try to kill us for it.

[Heald]

The environment isn't actually conscious though, so that throws that theory out the window.

[mistysakura]

*raises eyebrow* Even if the environment were conscious and out to kill us, we can't live without it. It's like Stockholm Syndrome, lol.

And yeah, I do want to go to Sound Aid. If just to see Midnight Oil reformed and Peter Garrett back in rock star mode. I'd laugh my ass off.

[Blademaster]

Not to split hairs, but the planet's sentience isn't exactly something that can be scientifically proven/disproven. I mean, the planet does share certain characteristics with all lifeforms:

1. It displays homeostasis (It maintains a consistent temperature).
2. It displays metabolism (It absorbs what's good for it and expels what isn't).
3. It displays adaptation (It has endured countless millennia of bombardments by comets, asteroids, and meteorites, consistent polar reversal, reoccuring ice ages, global drought, global warming, cataclysmic disasters, chemical reactions that have wildly altered the composition of the land, sea, and sky, seismic activity that has ripped the planet apart and rebuilt it in countless different forms on the inside and the outside, etc., etc., etc..).
4. It displays organization (It has, for its entire 'life,' retained a similar elemental make-up as well as its geological composition of core, mantle, crust, and everything in-between.).
5. It responds to stimuli.

The only things the Earth doesn't do that are characteristic of life are growing and reproducing. So to say that the Earth isn't conscious is not really factual.

[PancaKe]

Continuing on with what Dark Sage was saying about the environment;

The Australian bush is actually an environment that is adapted to bushfires, and uses bushfire to regenerate itself. From what I've heard, environmentalists lobbied to stop backburning (burning the bush in a controlled fire to stop the path of a bushfire), and if they had been allowed to backburn areas, the bushfires wouldn't have been as bad.

I don't know.

[Heald]

Perhaps conscious was not the correct term to use. I'm thinking along the lines of, no, the environment doesn't actually think or is aware that humanity is destroying it and thus uses natural disasters to punish it, you half-wit.

[Blademaster]

As long as you're calling DS the half-wit and not me, I'll go with that.

[Katie]

I think you're wrong on pretty much every point dude.