Mod to Member ratio... (Current Discussion: Forum Specific Images)

[Houndoom_Lover]

...is very unsettling. At any given number of times, I log in and there are like two normal members and the rest of mods. While this is all good and well for site production (I guess) it seems like we have way too many Moderators in comparison to members.

And this is no good.

While things get done and cleaned in a giffy, new members seeing this will feel inadiquite when coming to post. The forum one this site should only have one or two Mods.

The most active should have two.

While the least active should have one.

Until we aquire more members and more Mods are needed.

[Heald]

At the moment I can see 3 mods (including myself) and 6 members online (although I can actually see hidden members, whereas you normal members can't).

There is quite a high ratio of mods to members for these reasons:

1) When the forum would see two or three spambot attacks a day, until we upgraded board security we had to use a whack-a-mole style system to minimise damage, which while not a direct reason for people getting modded, was a large incentive.

2) This forum needs 3 mods, given it is arguably the most active forum on the board. At any given, at least one Misc mod will be online, due to the fact each of us covers are different timezone (I'm UK, RSW is US and Drago is Oz).

3) Mods are modded because they satisfy certain criteria: they are active, the forum needs an active mod (or in some cases another active mod) and they are a trusted, valued member who has proven themselves worthy of the responsibility. You can't expect to mod people when activity is high and then demod when they are not. Whereas being modded is seen as a reward for being a good contributor, being demodded is seen as a punishment, and the member who is demodded would most likely leave the board (unless they were demodded by request or due to a long stint of inactivity). The quickest way to see a whole bunch of our most valued members walk out of the door is to demod them.

4) Some forums have a lot of mods because they have a lot of admin work. Fanfic has 4 mods and can justify that because they run several activities such as awards, competitions, newsletters etc. Likewise, RPG has some behind-the-scenes work that requires 3 mods and ASB ought to have more than 1 mod, given how intensive the work is.

5) This board has several forums that see little to no activity whatsoever, however, they still need to be modded, just in case they do see any activity, or if a spambot attacks their forum.

[Houndoom_Lover]

I know why we have mods, I'm just saying. Maybe we should cut back for a little while as a test experiment to see if we can do the same output of work.

I can really only see the Misc. forum having three mods. But the other forums like Fanfiction RPG most certainly do not. They don't get very much spam.

And since a great majority of the Mods are active, as a qulification, things will get done irigardless to the number of them.

So, this forum and ABS (because it needs to be updated regularly) would use three mods, whereas the others that are active should have two, and the most inactive one.

But really, do the math between active members and active moderators. Its uneven.

[Number1ChanseyFan]

I know why we have mods, I'm just saying. Maybe we should cut back for a little while as a test experiment to see if we can do the same output of work...

And since a great majority of the Mods are active, as a qulification, things will get done regardless to the number of them.
It may seem like we have a lot of mods, but they all earned their positions. Regardless of forum activity, it would be hard to justify laying off mods because the forum is too dead, I mean, if they are doing their job, it really isn't fair, and if they were demodded in such a manner, I would be surprised if they still felt like staying around and being active members of the community, there would likely be hard feelings, which would decrease activity/morale.

We don't have as many mods as we used to, we haven't replaced everybody that we have lost. Classic Generation only has one mod now, a few years ago it had 4 mods. But in all honesty, it is good that the mods are online a lot, it shows how they earned their position, by being active and making quality posts.

[Little_Pikachu]

People were modded back when we were really active, now we're not really active it just looks like we have a lot. I'm not demodding good mods just because there isn't a huge amount of activity right now. It's not like I'm paying them.

[PancaKe]

Maybe we'll get active again? Who knows. I don't think its a big deal really. Why demod for the sake of de-modding?

[Houndoom_Lover]

Wll, we should go advertise or something to get more members back. Just having mods for sake of having mods doesn't make any more sense than demodding for the sake of demodding.

We will, I hope, eventually get active enough to warrent all the mods we have, but right now it looks over barring.

I'm just speaking, you know. I tried to get a friend to join, and she wouldn't when she noticed all the moderators.

[Heald]

To be honest, if someone refused to join because there was a strong moderation team, they probably weren't going to be a constructive member anyway. So this way not only do we have a secure, well-staffed forum, we also deter trolls, idiots and other undesirables from joining!

[Houndoom_Lover]

Strong staffed site is a harsh phrase, let's use Well staffed site, instead. I've seen many a Well staffed site go down...

They're kinda just floating around, uselessly. I really think it be a good thing to even the ratio out, just a bit. So since no one wants to lessen the overlord power, I suggest we gather members out to warrent the moddyness.

:0 I advertise this site every bloomin' chance I get. We need to boost membership. No kid wants to go to a school were there are twice as many teachers as their are students.

And its not a matter of if they earned their potision or not :0 I'm not saying they didn't, I'm just saying it looks off.

[Jeff]

To be honest, if someone refused to join because there was a strong moderation team, they probably weren't going to be a constructive member anyway. So this way not only do we have a secure, well-staffed forum, we also deter trolls, idiots and other undesirables from joining!

Woo!

Seriously though, the only other reason I can see someone being afraid of the fact that there are so many mods is if they're assuming we're all power-crazy dicks like the mods at some of the other forums out there. I think we've been fair enough as far as punishing members goes, so she really shouldn't have anything to be afraid of.

[Heald]

It seems your issue isn't there being too many mods but a lack of members. Mods shouldn't be punished just because we're losing members faster than we're gaining them.

You're also confusing the role of moderator as overlord. Mods are not just there to ban, delete and infract, they're also there to develop, guide, help and innovate. It is wrong to think of them as teachers or police.

[Rossymore]

Well I agree with Houn with that every so often I look at the online list there's always a light blue name floating around. I remember one time I saw four in a row. I admit that when I first joined I was a bit intimidated but then I just jumped into the ASB and didn't give a hoot.

The only times I can guarentee a time when just members are on is about midday for me and there's...maybe one or two other members on...ish.

But yeah, I usually see the Who's Online area streaked with light blue. Sometimes I see a tinge of dark red but not many times. I rarely ever see a blob of yellow these days.

But yeah, I look at the Staff List and I have to scroll down so far to reach the bottom. There are still some names on that list I have either very rarely seen on a post or never at all. It's like the SPPF Staff List...crazy.

But not as hectic I must agree.

[PancaKe]

Well perhaps it's a chance to get rid of the inactive mods...

And a chance to build up and develop the website and advertise the forum as well.

It's good your on the ball Houndy! Maybe some of this energy can be transfered into thinking of ways the website can be more than just an offshoot of the forum?

[The_Missing_Link]

What you forget is that mods are members too. We started off as regular members and then happened to be modded for our expertise, helpfulness, etc. We like to reply to frivolous topics like everyone else and goof off. Just because we have added responsibilities doesn't mean we should be excluded as members like everyone else

[Jeff]

Well perhaps it's a chance to get rid of the inactive mods...


The thing is though, with the exception of Dark-San, we really don't have any inactive mods.

[Weasel Overlord]

The thing is though, with the exception of Dark-San, we really don't have any inactive mods.

And didn't Dark-San ask to be demodded? *has forgotten*

[PancaKe]

It's good then, that we have hardly any inactive mods :)

Perhaps a reshufling of the forum would make for more active forums... or perhaps just kill off what activity there is... *thinking out loud, have not thought any of this through*

[Telume]

I personally have no problem with the mod-to-member ratio, though I do agree it LOOKS like we have too many. But really, there's no reason to demod anyone if they earned their position, if someone gets demodded due to inactivity then there will be hard feelings and that will transfer to anyone who is closely related to the person in question. I've seen it happen on some sites as well as on IRC. Don't want that.

However I DO recommend dropping the forums we do not use. Personally I see no need to have the archive forums displayed publicly. But that's just my opinion.

[PancaKe]

I can understand the fanfiction archive; but not sure about the others... That might just be cos of my own interests though...

It just seems like we have a lot of pokemon games forums with next to no posts. Maybe they should be all combined or something?

[Houndoom_Lover]

:3 The conversation went something like this:

Me: Will you join today pweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease?
Her: *looks at site* Why are there so many mods?
Me: I dunno, cause?
Her: Yea, good luck with that.
Me: Is that a no?
Her: Shut up, I'm googling fish


:0 I dunno. It just brought it to my attention is all. Off-topic-> I want her to join the forum so bad though, she's a hoot and would prolly be banned in the first week for posting lewd duck pictures. I'm not saying we're excluding the mods, Missing, I'm just saying, would you do anything different if you weren't bright blue?

No one's punishing anyone. :0 The spray bottle is in the cupboard.

^w^ Yeah, like Rossymore said, it looks intimidating when you first start. And it still is now. When its all bright blue, looks like a meeting is going on. I wish some of those people would post, think of how blinging we would be XD

Thanks Pancake! I would love it if we could tie the forum and the site in better, I'm sure we all do. I'm a shameless advertiser, I don't even belong to half the sites I ad on X3

And thanks everyone else, I suddenly grew lazy and decided not to write names <- fail. :3 I like when we have seriousforrizzle conversations without people getting defesive. This is fun ^o^

I know, the mods are active, there's just not much activity. I never said it was just a moderating problem X3 That was just my thoughts on a quick fix of it. Long term, we'd get more numbers and return the unmodded back to mods, but if we can get twenty...ten or so we members right now, and keep 'em active, it wouldn't look so spondgy.

The fanfiction archives are a bitch to navigate through. They all are. But I like that idea! We really should consalidate <- right word? the forums better.

Like we could have a General Pokemon topic like we do, you open it up and it'll have the forum and two sister forums, anime and video game.

We'd have the Misc, which, you know, could be seperated into sister forms, like annoucenment (It's my birthday! We're getting married! I'm new) and chitter-chatter, then we'd have fan art, fan fiction, and rpg like it is and we'd have Others.

Like Other anime, other video games, other sites.

Games should go somewhere by Misc. I think. I don't know why the poor dear is down there.

And then the archives

And maybe a section for Suggestions and a Moderator area. Where members can't post but view the measages, like a forum sticky. I always thought this site would prosper by having that. And having a suggestion area, I wouldn't blog down Misc. with heavy topics like that...

How else would we do it?

How else should we intregrade the sites?

How else will we get new members?

:0 Q and A time! This is fun! ^w^

[RedStarWarrior]

With the site revival being worked on, I think it's good that we have a good number of active moderators on...

Besides, you'd be surprised at the amount of mod work we actually do. Half of the stuff you don't see because we are able to remove it a few seconds after it is posted (spambots are so annoying these days and more numerous).

[Houndoom_Lover]

I wonder what the site would look like if the mods took a break for one weekend. The contrast would be really interesting to see ^w^

Yeah, in retrospective, it is a good thing to have lots of mods. They just seem to be spread out...oddly. And with the lack of no-posistion members, it just looks odd.

Like I said, we need more blood pumping through our internet heart, the lungs and brain'll fail and the kidneys are going :0

[RedStarWarrior]

I wonder what the site would look like if the mods took a break for one weekend. The contrast would be really interesting to see ^w^

Yeah, in retrospective, it is a good thing to have lots of mods. They just seem to be spread out...oddly. And with the lack of no-posistion members, it just looks odd.

Like I said, we need more blood pumping through our internet heart, the lungs and brain'll fail and the kidneys are going :0
There are plenty of non-mod people at certain hours...

[Houndoom_Lover]

I know, but at certain hours, there are one or two members and like all the mods are on. Not saying its a bad thing, no, not at all. It just looks wonky at times. Like a mod invasion- right now, there's a good balance of people on, the last time I check. Ideally, it should always be like this :0

[Houndoom_Lover]

I rather like the idea of solidating...? Liquidating...? Reorder the forum order.

We need some way to get more people. I think...Merchandise. Tee Shirts.

[Blademaster]

Can I just stop and say really quick that I find it amusing how the only people against this are Mods and the ones that notice it/are willing to give it a shot are Houndy, Rossy, PancaKe, Telume... All people whose names aren't bolded. Funny that, innit? :heh:

[The_Missing_Link]

Can I just stop and say really quick that I find it amusing how the only people against this are Mods and the ones that notice it/are willing to give it a shot are Houndy, Rossy, PancaKe, Telume... All people whose names aren't bolded. Funny that, innit? :heh:

If you were a mod and spent years trying to keep the forums in order (even through a downslide in membership), would you want to be demodded? Of course the mods don't want to go

Now the restructuring part, that's a good idea. Condensing useless forums is fine

[Houndoom_Lover]

:0 There is an over representation in this thread as well...That's ironic! I think this thread just won an internet.

Angel Blossoms whining killed it and repremanding that followed killed it slight, let's try again.


What would make this forum a more even community so the newbies arn't scared?

Edit: Oh no! ML, you're quick.

How would we condence :3 I wanna see some solutions. And if we demodded people, we could just reestablish them once the site got moving. Its just a click of the mouse, not the end of the world.

[Heald]

Maybe if Mods didn't have their names in Bold and Light-Blue. I don't really feel the need to stand out from the crowd if I can help it.

Or maybe have a switch so if I need to make a post 'as a mod', my name can be bolded and in light-blue, just for that post.

[Roy Karrde]

I have to admit I do cringe a bit when I only see mods on, or when I see 5 mods and 1 member on. But I do not think the mods need to go, when you have decreasing membership you are going to some times have more mods than members in some instances. The mods shouldn't be punished for that as in many ways they do a thankless job, and this is coming from a mod who at many times thought about quitting from the stress.

Just saying "Well we need to trim down the mods" really is a slap in the face of alot of people that worked hard both as mods and members to bring you this forum that you enjoy. There is talk of restructuring the forums and adding improvements, and I don't want to say any more on that. But really guys, alot of mods put in alot of hours in the past few months when spam bots were hitting us one after the other.

[Houndoom_Lover]

I like that. Alot. If the Mods could switch themselfs on and off, no one would confuse their playing with offical moderator biz-nas, this would decrease the chances of miscommunication. And would defently lower the chances of fighting, if in the forum, the mods were just memebers. But when on offical duty *destroy spambots, posting award topics, ect, I guess* if be time to turn the Moderator mode on...

That's a real crackerjack idea. Would that be possible?

I put hours in this site, Roy, :0 And I'm not highlight/Bolded, nor do I want to be. Being a moderator isn't some kind of speical award, and the moderators need to stop viewing it as it is. Sites are moderated for upkeep and practicality.

They are the white blood cells. Not enough, you die. Too many, you die.


:0 Human body= Internet Pokemon forum

Trimming down for now wouldn't be a punishment, you'd just be reactivated in like a month or something when activity gets higher. It shouldn't be taken personally. Much like forum rules from other sites. Inactive members (30 days or less) are removed. Its not personal. Its just how you keep a ship sturdy.

Edit: I mean, I guess it's an award of some sort :0 I just view it as another way to help out. But if there are too many workers, doing the same thing. That's just what I was getting at.


Why can't you reveal things? There are like, ten completely active people on the site. I hate to sound pessimistic, but working in the shadows will only increase the problem at hand.

[Blademaster]

If you were a mod and spent years trying to keep the forums in order (even through a downslide in membership), would you want to be demodded? Of course the mods don't want to go

True as that may be, it makes you guys look selfish. Like you care more about your positions than your responsibilities.


Maybe if Mods didn't have their names in Bold and Light-Blue. I don't really feel the need to stand out from the crowd if I can help it.

Or maybe have a switch so if I need to make a post 'as a mod', my name can be bolded and in light-blue, just for that post.

I'm liking this idea. Especially because it'd separate the powerheads from the regular guys who just do what they have to when it's required. I guarantee that a few people would refuse to ever turn that bold text off.

[RedStarWarrior]

I like that. Alot. If the Mods could switch themselfs on and off, no one would confuse their playing with offical moderator biz-nas, this would decrease the chances of miscommunication. And would defently lower the chances of fighting, if in the forum, the mods were just memebers. But when on offical duty *destroy spambots, posting award topics, ect, I guess* if be time to turn the Moderator mode on...

That's a real crackerjack idea. Would that be possible?
No. :(

[Heald]

My idea isn't actually feasibly possible. We could go back to the system where Mods have 8 Pokeballs under their name. While you couldn't turn it off, it would at least keep their names the same colour and size as regular members so we wouldn't be so imposing.

Roy has banged the nail right on the head. This is a thankless job. I've received countless PMs from mods and members alike on grievances or how I should be doing my job or whining about doing something. The closest thing I've had to a thank you is Angel Blossom grudgingly accepting her infraction earlier, and of course H_L thanking me for cleaning up this thread.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Aaawww! We can't do it :0 That was such a good idea.

Awwr, really? That's because people are douchebags :0 I always say what I mean, tell you I don't mean it if I don't, say please and thank you. I really don't see how people could PM stuff. This is why we need a Suggestion area. It make the PMs lessen. We could have a modern FAQ. The one we have is abit outdated.

I like the colouration. Its just a pity there's so many of you XD Maybe we should go back to the old Pokeball system for a while.

I mean, we need to experiment. That's the only way we can find out if anything works...

[ChobiChibi]

Can I just stop and say really quick that I find it amusing how the only people against this are Mods and the ones that notice it/are willing to give it a shot are Houndy, Rossy, PancaKe, Telume... All people whose names aren't bolded. Funny that, innit? :heh:

I'm just gonna quietly point out that PancaKe once modded Fanfic >_>;

Tbh, I don't see a difference between mods and members. They do exactly the same as "normal" members, just keeping things clean and tidy, that's all. It shouldn't change their attitude towards the forum at all, making them powerhungry or whatnot...

*slips away back into the shadows*

[Houndoom_Lover]

I had no idea what tbh was for a good 15 seconds X3

Yeah, I like to view mods as brooms :3 Helpful broom people! And Supermods would be Vacuumes.... :0 What comes next? Adminstrators? Bleech. Donators can be Frebrees

I just think we need to experiment. Like open a mock forum or something and try shit out.

[Bear]

Can I just stop and say really quick that I find it amusing how the only people against this are Mods and the ones that notice it/are willing to give it a shot are Houndy, Rossy, PancaKe, Telume... All people whose names aren't bolded. Funny that, innit? :heh:

I'm against it *runz*

[Houndoom_Lover]

I thought you were a Mod Bear :0 When did you stop that? You lost weight!

Hahaha...I just realised. The members are the dust...or the floor is the mods are the brooms.

[Bear]

I'm the mod of the forest...rar

I don't understand your second sentence...

[Houndoom_Lover]

Yeah, I like to view mods as brooms :3 Helpful broom people! And Supermods would be Vacuumes.... :0 What comes next? Adminstrators? Bleech. Donators can be Frebrees



*points up* :3 That. I'm getting sleepy. Someone say something knowldgeable to spark the disccusion up again.

[Crazy Elf Boy]

Just a quick dash of logic here. Weren't people modded for their dedication to something (e.g. Spending lots of time on certain forums) which means that a mod would most likely to spend more time logged on then a normal member. Also some mods have a bit of work to do so are most likely to be on longer so they can get it done. People don't go to schools at 4pm and wonder why there are so many teachers while there is a lack of students.

[RedStarWarrior]

*points up* :3 That. I'm getting sleepy. Someone say something knowldgeable to spark the disccusion up again.
You are the dust bunny of TPM.

[PNT510]

Using the broom analogy I can never recall being at work and being upset at having too many brooms. I can say it really sucks when you need one and can't find one.

[DarkestLight]

<< << Whoa I just saw this thread :O. HEY MUGGLES, GET IN HERE! They are talking about Blue Things and shiny objects!

[Houndoom_Lover]

:3 I'm freakin' adorable if that's what you mean.

If you have too many brooms, you'll run out of room to keep them.

Oh no!!! DL has summoned the muggles!!! :0

[The_Missing_Link]

You're right, Blade. It's a selfish thought but it's also true. A mod doesn't want to be penalized for doing good work. Doesn't make sense

I'm all for going back to the time where mods were recognized by the amount of Pokeballs. I always thought that was cool

[kainashi]

I'm all for going back to the time where mods were recognized by the amount of Pokeballs. I always thought that was cooli miss those. :( i used to give myself more when i was admin. :)

[Phoenixsong]

As someone who has never been intimidated by the moderation staff of any forum before even joining it or taking a closer look to see what they're like, I'm afraid I can't really sympathize with people who "see too many bold names and get scared off". Hell, I barely even notice things like that. They're only members who have to do work instead of just sitting around and talking, so I really don't know why people would care (unless they were, as Heald suggested, showing up for the express purpose of making trouble); sure, maybe you've had a bad experience with the staff at one forum, and that does happen, but if you let it color your opinion of every forum and automatically associate bold name with "jerk" then you're just being childish. :/

...I don't know. As I said, I just don't get why this is a problem and I don't see a reason to change things, but since everyone else seems to it's probably just me. Attracting more members is a good thing no matter what, but attracting them for the sole purpose of making the bold names less scary--especially when it's entirely possible that things like timezones and schedules are the reason you see more of one type of member than another--is silly. I think the people who are scared off by active mods from the word "go" need an attitude adjustment, not a mod staff adjustment.

And as far as I'm aware there are plenty of active non-mod members. They may not all be on at the same time, and as I said even more is definitely better since times are a little slow, but that doesn't mean they aren't there and aren't participating.

Do whatever you all think is best, I suppose, since my experience is apparently in the minority. I don't have a problem with going back to the pokéball thing, and at least a little condensing here and there might be a good idea.

[mr_pikachu]

Just broadly responding to earlier comments... the apparently problematic mod-to-member ratio seems to me like more of a function of low active membership than a high mod count. In that case, the goal should be to increase membership, not eliminate moderators. That's basically what we're trying to do with the website revival.

Also, a few others mentioned why some forums, such as Fanfic, need so many mods. Now, to be fair, forums like Classic Generation don't conduct such high-maintenance activities; hence why they don't need as many mods. We recognize that, and as such avoid over-modding. If Fanfic only had, say, three mods, we'd have to significantly reduce the number of events/projects we ran. Between the Silver Pencil/Golden Pen Awards, the Hall of Fame, the E-zine, the Writing Sprints/Contests, the Fanfic Trivia Game, and a host of other activities, it just takes a lot of time. With so much going on, we have to periodically rotate responsibilities just to keep up with everything. I'm sure other forums such as RPG and ASB have similar needs, based on what their mods have to do.

HL, I believe you were the one complaining awhile back that Fanfic mods weren't doing enough stuff for your liking. Reducing the mod count isn't going to help that.

Finally, whether or not you believe it, I and the other moderators frequently discuss issues like this. Whether it's about restoring the website, culling inactive moderators, changing the forum layout, or something else entirely, we're always trying to find ways to make positive changes. (I might remind everyone that the aforementioned website revival wouldn't have happened without the efforts of the moderators.) In the end, we naturally only make a change if the benefits of doing so outweigh the detriments. Slashing staff members at a time in which we're trying to rejuvenate TPM doesn't seem like a particularly reasonable change.

[Telume]

^ TLDR: Lets just keep it the way it is!

And actually on that note we should all thank Jeff, he busted his ass to get the back-end of the site working. It's not easy to code an entire thing from scratch I'll tell you that.

[Gavin Luper]

I largely agree with Phoenixsong and mr_pikachu. I don't see a logical argument for reducing the number of mods we have, and the issue of blue text/pokeballs is such a trivial thing I don't think it really bears arguing about.

What we should be focusing on is attracting new members, and to do that, yes, a website revival is of massive importance, but we also need to build activity and a more lively culture on the forums, which depends on both mods and members getting out there and doing more activities, posting more, and so on.

[PancaKe]

I'm just gonna quietly point out that PancaKe once modded Fanfic >_>;

People know why I originally stopped modding fanfic. And if you'd like to know too, I'm happy to share with you the IRL things that were happening ^__^

And I'm not going to deny that I would love to mod fanfic again, and was extremely close to modding it as well (until classy_cat18 got one extra vote). I love fanfic and I love to see it active. Just like I love this place and want to see it active again. Hence why, mod or not mod, I am still here, I am still posting, and I am still contributing.

Hmm that comes across as really snappy and defensive. =\ not meant to be at all.




In regards to other discussion:

- After reading both sides of the story, it seems silly to demod mods because there are too many.
- We need to be focusing on creating an environment new people would want to join, thus new topics and conversations and activity that everyone can join in on. There are several people who contribute immensley to this, and I think that's fantastic but its something we all need to be doing :D

That is all.

[Master Rudy]

You can't expect to mod people when activity is high and then demod when they are not. Whereas being modded is seen as a reward for being a good contributor, being demodded is seen as a punishment, and the member who is demodded would most likely leave the board (unless they were demodded by request or due to a long stint of inactivity). The quickest way to see a whole bunch of our most valued members walk out of the door is to demod them.

As far as the last sentence goes, truer words cannot be spoken on a forum. In the more extreme cases the demoding of a well liked member can lead to many people jumping ship if the person was well liked. In fact I myself left TPM for a good long time following my own demodding. It was equal parts bullshit for being 'inactive' (for not even two weeks), behind the scenes politics involving a former member who shall remain nameless, he said/she said and finally a few misunderstandings thrown in for good measure. I'm not going to go into detail past that since I've made up with most of those involved. I will however say that what Heald pointed out is true. It may not always seem like it on the surface but the mods of almost any active board do a ton of work cleaning up the bullshit and the old topics (not to mention other things). Needless to say I was rather unhappy about the whole thing and deeply resented some of the behind the scenes politics for quite awhile. In fact I'll even freely admit that in the rare cases that the subject came up that I still get occasionally sour when thinking about it. But in any case it's all in the past. This isn't designed to point fingers at anyone. I just mearly want to share my own views since I feel that Heald brought up a very valid point on the matter.

Even if a paticular forum seems inactive I can assure everyone here that behind the scenes most of them are anything but. Look at Fanfic and RPG. On the surface it may not seem like the mods do much. However in addition to cleaning up the rare cases of spam in those forums, those paticular mods organize the various awards topics, come up with/amend the forum rules that are for that paticular board alone, maintain/create the various important topics on those forums, ect.

Also setting aside the issue of demodding folks consider this: it's true that some forums may be less active. However leaving it up to a single mod on that fact is a bit foolish. Let's say that we've got a single mod in miscellaneous. Now I'm going to randomly pull a time zone out of my ass and say that the mod lives in the Caucasus Time Zone (where in the blue hell is Caucasus anyway? :heh: ). This leaves the potential of having that paticular board modless at very bad times. Naturally this whole make spam attacks, flame wars and the like much harder and much more time consuming to clean up.

As far as TPM goes this is the way I think it should be. At the very least have three mods per active forum. This in no way means demod the people on less active ones simply because they get no action. Likewise that also doesn't mean a dead forum is in sudden need of new mods simply because it's being manned by only one person. Also I personally think it's never a bad idea to have mods who complement each other with their online times. Case in point would be myself, Kalah and Gav in the RPG forum back near the end of 2003. As I'm sure you all know Gav lives in England. As for myself and Kalah we were in the Eastern and Central Time Zones respectively. I tend to be a night owl so I had the late night covered. Usually I'd be going to bed just as Gav would be coming online. Due to the time zone he's in that usually covered mid morning to early afternoon pretty well. By the time he was either tied up, busy, going to bed, ect. we'd usually have Kalah and in some cases me as well online. As a result RPG was a very well covered forum back then. While I know I can't talk for either of them I can say that whenever I was online and not tied up with something else that I at least poked my head in at least every 30-60 minutes. Assuming that they did the same or similar things as far as policing the board goes I'd say that at worse there was maybe a 4-6 hour stretch where RPG had none of it's mods online.

Of course those numbers I pulled out assume none of us were busy with school/work and that we didn't have much else to do at that paticular moment. However I think it makes the case of having mods that complement each other's online times pretty well. After all what would an entire board worth of mods do if they were all online at the same time when a problem came up? Flip a coin? Do rock, paper, sissors ala DBZ? All three of them yell at the same time (or in other words one brings the horse, another kills it and the last one beats the dead fuck)?

Well I guess that's my two cents on the matter of demodding folks. In short it doesn't have to happen. It almost always leads to people getting pissy, finger pointing ect. Plus if it seems like that we have too many mods online then perhaps you aren't taking the various time zones into account. Usually if I log onto TPM on the weekend at what would be considered normal evening hours for more of the US, I'll see a fairly good mix of members. Likewise if I'm up late and log in at say 4 AM my time then there stands a good chance that I'll see almost no one stateside on unless they happen to be west coasters. On that same token however I'll see all the Aussies such as Drago, Pan and Shazza. Finally I've actually had times where I've logged in and be the sole person on TPM for an hour or so. These cases are rare but they do happen. All I can say is if your seeing more mods than members then try logging in at a time that isn't normal for you. The results may suprise and shock you ^_~

[Angel Blossom]

Some of you guys are making it sound as if the administrators use moderator promotions as a tool to keep the better members from leaving (I'm looking at you, mr_pikachu). That may or may not be true, but I'm inclined to believe it is, at least in part. You'll find that on many smaller free forums people usually mass promote their friends to moderator positions. Why? As an incentive to remain active and participate. That's why I believe there are so many moderators here; it has nothing to do with "needing" 20-30 mods as TPM can easily survive with 3-4 active super moderators and 1-2 administrators.

I think the real question to ask is why people here have such a bizarre emotional attachment to their 'coveted' moderator positions on a forum devoid of much activity. If the moderators here truly care about this place, they won't care if they're demodded. Sure, they might be slightly annoyed at first, but if you explain the circumstances to them then I'm sure they'd understand. They'll simply continue to participate in the everyday discussions here if all goes well. However, if the moderators do care that they're demodded, then clearly they consider their moderator position more important than anything else on this forum. If they end up leaving over it, they probably didn't care much about this place or its community to begin with.

So, if it were up to me, I'd start by culling the moderator numbers down and then promote a select few to super moderator status, which won't compromise on efficiency. This'll prove who are committed to this place and who are simply remaining here because of power lust. But I can almost envisage that most people here will find some reason to oppose this, so I simply suggest not promoting anybody else from now on. You really need to find another way to keep the regular members participating in discussions instead of heavily relying on temptation; this is why introducing rules that limits discussion, especially at this point in time, is asinine. Even at this very moment, nobody can make a legitimate, lawful comment in the picture thread unless they post a picture because that rule is currently in effect. Those five comments fill up very fast.

Before you know it, you'll have even more moderators in your ranks when you don't necessarily "need" them.

[Bear]

AB, why are you still on about this Picture thread thing? Give it a rest already. You got infracted, it's not the end of the world. Stop trying to start a crusade against the moderators, suggesting they are power hungry and unfairly targeting you. The rest of us are adapting to the rule, so why do you refuse? My guess is because you have too much pride to admit that you were wrong, and would rather hold this grudge forever. In any case, I find your continued accusations against the moderators for being power hungry to be a bit illogical and 'conspiracy theory'-ish. If you're going to make these statements, I suggest you start providing real evidence instead of this 'I'm just the innocent peace loving victim' argument.

Also, this is a dumb question as I probably already know the answer, but is there any way you can make your text a tiny bit bigger? Old men like me have trouble reading it :D

[Angel Blossom]

I do think it's a stupid rule, and I already mentioned earlier in this thread that I didn't care that I was infracted. What I did care about, however, was that Lady Vulpix committed the same wrong I did by responding to me, dragging the debacle on even further and breaking that new rule herself in the process. Of course, she goes unpunished and won't admit that she's in the wrong as well.

By the way, if you read my previous post here carefully, you'll see that it was primarily concerning moderator numbers, not the picture thread. Put that grudge you have with me aside for a moment, if possible, and you'll see just that.

[shazza]

There are 7,164 members and 27 mods/supermods/admins. That's a good 99.63:0.37 ratio. I know it would be ideal that the ratio was below 0.35% of members, I can really sympathize with you guys, but I just don't think there really should be any cause for concern until it goes above 0.40%. I guess we just need to be alert, but not alarmed. Just keep a regular update on the ratio, and if we notice an alarming increase, then we know we should strip Zak of his SuperMod duties.

[Angel Blossom]

There are 7,164 members and 27 mods/supermods/admins. That's a good 99.63:0.37 ratio. I know it would be ideal that the ratio was below 0.35% of members, I can really sympathize with you guys, but I just don't think there really should be any cause for concern until it goes above 0.40%.
How many of those 7,164 members are actually active? 50? :rolleyes:

[shazza]

The member list unfortunately does not have the ability to account for who and who is not regularly active without checking individual users, therefore, I can not answer your question.

[Bear]

Eh, I'd rather not get into this back-and-forth with you here, as it would make me guilty of the exact same thing I'm trying to stop. But regardless of whether "most" of your post was concerning moderator numbers or not, you still brought up the subject of the picture thread again, and used it to assert your distaste for the event that occurred. You could have left the last three or four sentences off of your post and it still would have presented your opinion (which is perfectly acceptable). Instead, right at the end, you used the current topic to sneak in your issue with LV and the picture thread. We all know you disagree with the way things were handled. What I'm suggesting is that you take it to PMs instead of bringing it up continuously in multiple topics in an effort to garner support from the other members. That is how you are coming across.

I honestly (believe it or not) don't have any sort of grudge against you. I don't know very much about you, so I am in no position to make judgements or hold grudges. What I am doing is responding to posts that I disagree with in an effort to promote debate and simultaneously discourage flaming and power struggles. I guess you just got lucky in that a few of your posts caught my attention. Maybe it's the pink font!

Either way, please don't take my posts the wrong way. I've seen that you are struggling with this issue at the moment, and I am trying to help you resolve it constructively and more quickly get back to your normal, happy posting life. It's painful to see so much division going on when this board needs unity and support more than ever. It's like watching US politics -_-.

EDIT: lol, in the time it took me to type that post there were three others in between. I slow :(

[Angel Blossom]

What happened in the picture thread was pertinent to my discussion on member activity. Lady Vulpix always complains that I'm never giving enough examples to reinforce my outlandish claims (in this case, moderators who are trying to worsen the problem we have with member activity, so I gave an example of just that). I hope there's nothing wrong with it. o.o

shazza: even if we make the outrageous claim that there are 100 active registered users here, 27% mods (at least) is quite high. Don't you think?

[Clark]

teh m0dZ r out 2 get us. omgawdzzz ran 4 ur lyf. :rolleyes:

just go outside kids, mods/non-mods means nothing if no one posts.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Didn't we decide there wouldn't be demodding like ten posts ago and forum condencing and maybe changing the colour to pokeballs?

I still havn't changed my mind. At least for a little while, I want to see how the forum would work if we had less mods. Everyone's acting like it'll be forever if it even occured. I don't think the people who are mods now will be going anywhere. You'd get your job as forum janitors/handymen/put upper of awards back as soon as its over. Its just a mouse click, after all.

:0 TPM might have some crazy thing though. The first child sacrafices.

I'm not saying demod everyone because they're on a power trip. :0 I think I may that clear. My intentions should be clear. I just want to see the site run most efficantly.

I'm not saying demodding is the only solution, either. It was just the first that came to mind.

Because we need more members that are constantly active.

And we can get that by either making the active people here basic members. Or by getting new ones.

Now let's put our brain to that, shall we?

[Weasel Overlord]

You see, what I don't get is why people need to be regular members to be allowed to stay around. Yes okay, so we have a few mods, but they're also some of the most active members in their particular forums. What difference will it make, demodding people? There'll still be exactly the same amount of active people around - only perhaps, as Bear said earlier, there'll be a few less if people leave.
EDIT: with regards to the first sentence in my reply, even the thread title implies that you don't think of mods as members at all.

I'd also like to say that I find the whole mod-to-member ratio laughable. If you take it forum by forum, looking at, say, RPG since I know that the best. We have three mods in RPG - all at different timezones. Now are you honestly telling me that there's less than three active members other than us mods in RPG? No, there's loads. I can think of at least ten, off-hand. Personally, I don't see that as mods outnumbering active members. Same goes for Fanfic. They have four mods - there's a lot more than just four people active in that forum. Same goes for Misc. I could go on.

I think the idea that people would leave for being demodded is a bit silly. The reason I'm here, personally, is to RP. Not being a mod wouldn't change that. If anything, it'd give me LESS work to do in this place, lol. The thing is, people don't seem to be taking into account all the work mods do for their boards. It's not just a case of deleting/moving/closing threads and dealing with spam etc. There's always discussions going on about stuff we can do to increase activity, garner new members and so on.

Also, don't forget, that should we get hit by spammers or whatever, and there's only one mod per forum, it'll be whenever they can get online before it's dealt with. If there was only, say, Heald modding Misc, anything that happened there would have to wait til he got online, English timezone, before it was dealt with - unless there was an Admin or Smod on, which isn't necessarily every day. I just remember when RPG was hit when RazorLeaf's account got hacked, it took me absolutely HOURS to put all the threads back to where they were, cos Roy wasn't able to get online at the time. Just a tad too much work for one person.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Warning: Yes I am a mod, so everything I say can be understood as saving my own butt. Honestly, on my loyal pokemon soul, it's not.

If you don't join a forum because there are to many mods, then you have issues. It's not like we're watching your steps on every occasion here in the forum. Hell no.

Also, when I got modded I was surprised at the load of work the mods do around here. If you could look at the mod-forum you'd see that. Really!

Ofcourse you can't and that's the fun side for us.

As Heald says, it's an ungrateful job at times. I can't complain at ASB and such, but modding forums like Misc. can really be uh.

I don't really see any good reasons for getting less mods. The place is hectic enough as it is.

Also, besides our own forum (and the supermods), we're regular members in EVERY other forum. We just blink a little blue if you look at the bottom of the main page.

[Heald]

I honestly would not want to mod Misc by myself. Whenever I am online, I can be online for as little as 1 hour and as much as 6 hours, maybe 8 on one of my days off.

I would like to address the point of a mass demodding and just having 4-5 supermods, even though it is an incredibly stupid idea: I primarily only look at Misc. I have an RPG, and I have occasional interests in ASB, Fanfic and Video Games. The only forum I actually look at enough regularly to actually know enough to make informed decisions is Misc. I'm not prepared to go digging through every post in order to see if people are behaving. In fact, that's not even what Supermods are for. Supermods are simply there to back-up regular moderators and have powers to moderate in a forum if that forum's moderator is not online. Their job isn't to sift through every post, like you are implying it should be.

Furthermore, this isn't like other forums where the modding staff can be considered a staff, where full-time active participation is a requirement. Here, mods are just members who can be trusted with responsibility. Mods here aren't required to be online any more than once a week, and even then if one is inactive for longer, it isn't a big deal. At other forums, even a few days of inactivity could warrant a demodding. That's because we actually have lives, work, school, outside interests. The vast majority of mods here are over 20 and don't even care about Pokemon any more. It is a very angst-free, community-driven environment that mods have here, far better than other communities where mods are expected to act like some kind of secret police force, and it is thanks in-part to the fact we have a wide-ranging committee of members who have taken on this responsibility to moderate the forums. If you cut it down, you're increasing the workload and the angst and stress that mods have to deal with. I'm glad I have two friends I can trust, RSW and Drago, to help me moderate this forum, and I honestly wouldn't want it any other way. If you took those two away, not only would this place become a lot worse (due to the fact I wouldn't even be able to moderate it even 25% of the time) but it'd be a lot more stressful doing this job on my own. I like to think of this as an outside interest that I am voluntarily committed to, rather than a job I am chained to.

Finally, even though it seems there is a rather high proportion of mods to members, there is also a disproportionate amount of activity to active members. Even though we probably have less than a hundred regulars, we easily see enough activity to justify the mod team. We get around 10 posts an hour during our quiet times and far more in our peak periods.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Well, since the last posts basically rephrased everything that was said hours ago, I'm going to keep saying what I said. What are we doing to increase membership? Its just the site appearence, is all.

And people needa stop taking shit so personal. Any time someone brings a point up as nebulous as this, people go and piss themselfs. I swear.

*looks up from my Word document*

We were getting somewhere, with the trasfering to neon blue to pokeballs to look less intimidated (at least for a while) forum condensing, and a getting more members so it doesn't look off. Apperences are everything for sites the run on member contributation. For any site, really.

Let's work on the ideas, shall we? That would be productive.

[Lady Vulpix]

I think what the forum needs is more members and more activity.

[Clark]

I think what the forum needs is more members and more activity.

Give us a talk-shit forum. Misc topics contain half of what was actually posted. By the time I get to a topic, 90% of the posts are deleted, and none of the replies actually make sense.
No one wants to post if theres a bunch of mods just deleting because *they* are offended or afraid people can't handle what is being said.

[Houndoom_Lover]

I think so too :P We need tons more members. I want so many, I won't beable to recognize them. I'll be like "Who the heck are you"

And they'll be like "I've been here for six months."

And I'll be like, "No way."


:0 Sorry, I just ate my weight in sugar.

I wonder what would make this place more active. I mean, its not like we're dead. We're just stable. We need an influc...influ..influx of new people that stay. Or old people. Just more constant members.


I concur with Ace! We need a shit talking forum!! I think TPM is the only forum I know of that doesn't have a Spam/Bitch/Chitchat/Talk Shit section ...

[Gavin Luper]

Well, since the last posts basically rephrased everything that was said hours ago, I'm going to keep saying what I said. What are we doing to increase membership? Its just the site appearence, is all.

And people needa stop taking shit so personal. Any time someone brings a point up as nebulous as this, people go and piss themselfs. I swear.

*looks up from my Word document*

We were getting somewhere, with the trasfering to neon blue to pokeballs to look less intimidated (at least for a while) forum condensing, and a getting more members so it doesn't look off. Apperences are everything for sites the run on member contributation. For any site, really.

Let's work on the ideas, shall we? That would be productive.

1. Neon blue/pokeballs: I see this as pretty much a moot point. Mods will still be mods, end of story. We'd be better off spending our energy on the other ideas.

2. Forum condensing: While there are discussions about this amongst the mods at the moment, maybe someone should make a thread about this in Misc, so that people can start chipping in with ideas and suggestions?

3. Getting more members: This is a tough one, and it links in with the forum condensing and website revival. Perhaps we should sow our seeds on other well-known pokemon forums, using our sigs and word of mouth to promote TPM and its forums. For example, fanficcers could start bulk-posting their fanfics on a variety of other forums, with links in their sigs to the rest of the story at TPM. We could also probably talk TPM up a lot more - again with the Fanfic example, we could spread the word about the culture there, and that all fandoms and all writing is encouraged and fostered, along with fun competitions, chances to build on writing skills, discuss new ideas and hold debates, etc. At the same time, to make all of the above particularly true, we could have a groundswell of activity by mods and members of fanfic to demonstrate the liveliness of that forum and encourage new people to join.

And that's just Fanfic ... I'm sure there are ways for members of each subforum to spread their seed (excuse the dodgy metaphor, it's late) across the net.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Reply to one: Oh gosh, it does :0

Reply to two: Want me to make a "Condencing Forum thread" or is someone else one it?

Reply to three: I hard core think we need to start getting our name out there. Like you said, Gavin, we should...:0 I almost used a sex metaphor. We should plant our seeds in the other sites X3

Every time I post a fanfiction else where, I put where else they can read it usually. This place being. Not only is the Fanfiction part a great part of the site, my favorite hasta be Misc and ASB. No one else on the internet has such a pleasant Misc. and no one else uses this style...

:0 Its like a Pokenerds dream come true. I'm gunna advertise more on dA at Pokemon clubs. But I think we need bottons, posters, and banners else where. Happyness is just a click awaaaay!

Sorry. :0 I'm not sure how coherint anyof that is. ^w^

[Heald]

Give us a talk-shit forum. Misc topics contain half of what was actually posted. By the time I get to a topic, 90% of the posts are deleted, and none of the replies actually make sense.
No one wants to post if theres a bunch of mods just deleting because *they* are offended or afraid people can't handle what is being said.
This is kind of an exaggeration. The only posts I've had to delete are posts that blatantly break the rules, and the posts that reply to these rule-breaking posts, and they constitute less than 1% of what I have to read on this forum.

On that token, though, I wouldn't be opposed to a talk-shit forum, although I would have two provisos:

1) Posts don't contribute towards post count.
2) Forced Anonymity. It's hard to flame someone if you don't know who you're flaming.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Hell yes!! ^w^ Those rules are a great idea!

But would is be possible to do, rule number two?

I know one is possible. I've seen it done else where.

[Telume]

2. Forum condensing: While there are discussions about this amongst the mods at the moment, maybe someone should make a thread about this in Misc, so that people can start chipping in with ideas and suggestions?


You read my mind Gavin and I already stated what I think.

Either:

1. Condense the archives into 1 forum

OR

2. Remove them from public view altogether.

PTCO has the archives unviewable by normal members. (PTCO is an affiliate and I'm an admin on it.)

[Houndoom_Lover]

Oh....That's right. It would decrease lurking and force people to be active.

I think the archives could be make into one forum. They're hard to navigate so I never go down there, I just use the search.

[Mr.E]

I heard there was some terrible posting going on in this thread but I can't be bothered to yell at Angel Blossom and everything else cleaned itself up here. :mad: Carry on.

[Houndoom_Lover]

AAaw, Mr. E! You're late to the party! :3 What do you Mod, big fella? The Games? I can't ever rember what part of the forums you take care off.

[Angel Blossom]

I think the idea that people would leave for being demodded is a bit silly. The reason I'm here, personally, is to RP. Not being a mod wouldn't change that. If anything, it'd give me LESS work to do in this place, lol. The thing is, people don't seem to be taking into account all the work mods do for their boards. It's not just a case of deleting/moving/closing threads and dealing with spam etc. There's always discussions going on about stuff we can do to increase activity, garner new members and so on.
This goes right to the heart of my earlier post: you don't "NEED" to be a moderator to get involved in discussions on how to increase activity. If the real discussion about this is being kept to the moderator forum, then I don't understand why.


I would like to address the point of a mass demodding and just having 4-5 supermods, even though it is an incredibly stupid idea: I primarily only look at Misc. I have an RPG, and I have occasional interests in ASB, Fanfic and Video Games. The only forum I actually look at enough regularly to actually know enough to make informed decisions is Misc. I'm not prepared to go digging through every post in order to see if people are behaving. In fact, that's not even what Supermods are for. Supermods are simply there to back-up regular moderators and have powers to moderate in a forum if that forum's moderator is not online. Their job isn't to sift through every post, like you are implying it should be.
You make it sound as if the rules are so overly complex and vastly different in each forum that it's impossible to learn them all. If that's the case, maybe it's the rules that need changing. The only forum you mentioned that does have very complex rules (and for good reason) is ASB; in this case, I wouldn't expect a supermod to become acquainted with the intricacies of ASB policies, so a normal moderator would be best.

I still don't see how my idea is stupid though. You can easily train somebody up to handle affairs in Fanfic and Video Games in addition to Misc; I'm sure the rules in those forums are not overly complex. Some of the bigger and better forums out there put their supermods to excellent use, which eliminates most of the need to appoint normal mods to each and every forum. The current supermods on TPM, I believe, are not doing anywhere near enough.

Finally, I find it peculiar how nobody has addressed the main point in my earlier post: that promotions are used as temptation to keep the better members from leaving. It's all fine and dandy to nitpick other certain elements of my posts, but try to see it in its entirety, and you'll see what a solid argument I have against moderator numbers.

And yes, I agree with the idea of a talk-shit forum. ^_^;

[Roy Karrde]

Finally, I find it peculiar how nobody has addressed the main point in my earlier post: that promotions are used as temptation to keep the better members from leaving. It's all fine and dandy to nitpick other certain elements of my posts, but try to see it in its entirety, and you'll see what a solid argument I have against moderator numbers.

And yes, I agree with the idea of a talk-shit forum. ^_^;

Just curious but which mods have been promoted to keep them from leaving the forums? I can't speak for others but I pretty much know that Crystal, Weasel, and myself were not considering leaving the forum when we were modded. In fact we have lost one of our favorite members, Bulbasaur4, to another forum and she was a mod. And in the last 4 years, where I have participated in numerous mod elections in the RPG Forum, and elections for low post forums, I have never heard "We need to promote this person or they will leave". So really I am getting sick of the innuendo, saying "Promotions are being used to keep members from leaving" is very very vague.

[RedStarWarrior]

And in the last 4 years, where I have participated in numerous mod elections in the RPG Forum, and elections for low post forums, I have never heard "We need to promote this person or they will leave". So really I am getting sick of the innuendo, saying "Promotions are being used to keep members from leaving" is very very vague.
I, for instance, was modded (the most recent time) because I wouldn't go away.

[abunaidesu]

I, for instance, was modded (the most recent time) because I wouldn't go away.

http://icestrike.net/images/data/supernaturalclap.gif

[mr_pikachu]

Angel Blossom, since you have asked that your posts be considered in their entirety, I will adhere to your wishes, once and once only, and respond to the arguments made throughout your entire post. I hope this clarification helps.




This goes right to the heart of my earlier post: you don't "NEED" to be a moderator to get involved in discussions on how to increase activity. If the real discussion about this is being kept to the moderator forum, then I don't understand why.

Yes, because we spend all our time trying to keep "regular members" from becoming involved in the promotion of TPM (http://www.pokemasters.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=55). We pride ourselves on controlling everything! >_>

If a discussion is taking place amongst the mods, that's usually just because we're the ones who ponder possible improvements and start talking about them -- often, no one else bothers. We chat about it for a bit and, quite frequently, follow that by making a public post about it. It's not as though there's some kind of power play or information hoarding, as you appear to be suggesting. It's just that others rarely bother to make any suggestions. Outside of the Website Revival Project -- again, started by the moderators and willfully opened to everyone -- how many posts in The Binary District have been suggestions for improving TPM? Answer: There hasn't been a single one this year.

Finally, to be clear, we do value member suggestions. For instance, a month or so ago, kiyone sent me a PM suggesting that we change the domain name of TPM's main site, as a .tk domain looked pretty lousy. Lo and behold, we are now located at http://www.thepokemasters.net. Thank you, kiyone.


You make it sound as if the rules are so overly complex and vastly different in each forum that it's impossible to learn them all. If that's the case, maybe it's the rules that need changing. The only forum you mentioned that does have very complex rules (and for good reason) is ASB; in this case, I wouldn't expect a supermod to become acquainted with the intricacies of ASB policies, so a normal moderator would be best.

I still don't see how my idea is stupid though. You can easily train somebody up to handle affairs in Fanfic and Video Games in addition to Misc; I'm sure the rules in those forums are not overly complex. Some of the bigger and better forums out there put their supermods to excellent use, which eliminates most of the need to appoint normal mods to each and every forum. The current supermods on TPM, I believe, are not doing anywhere near enough.

Say what you will about certain members of the staff, such as the two remaining supermods. (Notice how no one has been promoted to fill Gabi's old spot? It's because we don't make unnecessary promotions, and that doesn't seem necessary right now.) Honestly, I'd rather hear criticisms about particular individuals than sweeping generalizations about all members of the staff.

Most of this portion, however, ignores what I and others have already said. To repeat myself, many in this thread seem to believe that moderation consists entirely of enforcing rules. If that were the case, sure, we wouldn't need many mods. In reality, enforcement is the smallest part of our jobs.

Most of our responsibilities involve promoting activities on the forums, whether through creating events and activities (the Fanfic Awards, Hall of Fame, E-zine, Writing Sprints, Writing Contests, etc.), facilitating member-run events and activities (such as the mid-term Fanfic Awards that HL offered to run awhile back as well as the Fanfic Trivia Game, whose creator was not a moderator at the time), taking part in forum-wide projects (see the aforementioned website revival, whose efforts encompass people from all over TPM), and generally setting a good example for activity by being active ourselves. Each one of those tasks takes far more time and effort than enforcement. Therefore, it makes no sense to say that we only have so many moderators merely because the rules are so complex.


Finally, I find it peculiar how nobody has addressed the main point in my earlier post: that promotions are used as temptation to keep the better members from leaving. It's all fine and dandy to nitpick other certain elements of my posts, but try to see it in its entirety, and you'll see what a solid argument I have against moderator numbers.

I won't profess to know what the admins are thinking, so I can't conclusively argue against the purported temptation. I will say, however, that it doesn't seem to make sense. If a member was somehow "better" than others, I don't think they'd be at much risk to leave. Why would an active member suddenly abandon the forums forever? It doesn't happen very often, and it certainly wouldn't be easy to predict which members were "at-risk" for vanishing under such circumstances.

The members who are generally at risk of leaving fall into one of two categories: 1) those who are stagnant in terms of activity, rarely posting and never really engaging in anything on the forums, or 2) flamers and trolls who don't care about the forums in the first place. I'd challenge anyone here to find an example where someone was modded -- outside of an April Fool's Day joke -- because they were either inactive or flaming trolls.

Again, I will concede that I can't fully refute this, as I'm speaking about someone else's reasoning. To me, though, that doesn't even seem feasible. Based on what everyone here has observed in terms of promotions, your theory simply doesn't seem to match the data.


And yes, I agree with the idea of a talk-shit forum. ^_^;

Looks like Heald's already excited about this. Serious suggestions for improvement = good!



I have done what I promised and responded to every claim in your post. Feel free to respond, whether with counterarguments or personal attacks. Just don't expect a response from me. Like others have indicated, I, too, have a life outside of TPM, and I need to do a lot of grading tonight. There's simply no free time for me to engage in further squabbling in the near future.

[RedStarWarrior]

http://icestrike.net/images/data/supernaturalclap.gif
You are just jealous. :wave: I like your new avatar, btw.

Anyway, in regards to the 'talk-shit forum' (which it will not be called), discussion has been brought up many times for adding such. Each time it was decided against for the moment, but I've always been a supporter of adding a SPAM forum.

[Telume]

Would the SPAM forum have post count disabled though? (Most sites have it set up that way.) I'm not all to familiar on whether vBulletin allows this to be done or not.

[RedStarWarrior]

Would the SPAM forum have post count disabled though? (Most sites have it set up that way.) I'm not all to familiar on whether vBulletin allows this to be done or not.
Yes and yes.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Why the heck won't it be called shit-talk, Red! Why NOT?! :0 I want a poll to be held! Spam vs Shit-Talk!

[Telume]

'cause we're still a pokemon site? we're supposed to be at least somewhat wholesome?

[Clark]

Why the heck won't it be called shit-talk, Red! Why NOT?! :0 I want a poll to be held! Spam vs Shit-Talk!

Because our user base is "family" oriented. As a pokemon forum, we focus on all age groups. :)

[shazza]

Okay, I'm going to cease trolling now and post a legitimate reply.

I really don't give a fuck about how many mods there are, quite frankly. It isn't hurting the forum having them there, but in saying that, getting rid of a few won't really hurt the forum either. I feel that a SuperMod's duties should adhere to the title that is given: and that is first and foremost to be moderating ALL the forums, therefore that for every moderator total, you need to add the fact there are two SuperMod's. If this is not their duty, then the position is pointless and should be rid of. You could say that the moderators in the really inactive forums – Classic Generation, Other Pokémon Games, Other Anime and Manga – can use a cut as there are also the SuperMod’s to take care of, however this is in theory; in reality I don’t really feel the vital need for the SuperMod’s, to be honest. But there are some proficient moderators, and to get rid of them just to keep the numbers low, when the current numbers isn’t really making anyone lose sleep, would be unfair.

Some are saying that the goal should be to boost membership. This is ideal, but this is also 2009 and Web 2.0: internet users stick to the most popular, recognised sites and there isn’t as many competing sites as there were once were. If you’re doing a search, you go Google; if you want information about random shit, it’s Wikipedia; if you want to stalk, it’s usually Facebook; and if you want information about Pokémon or to discuss it, it’s Serebii.net.

In regards to the idea about a SPAM forum: kiyone, myself and others have advocated such an idea for years, along with the idea of the postcount being disabled. But we were always regarded as trolls trying to disrupt the status quo and destroy the quality of TPM. In 2004, Chris set up a secret forum much like Something Awful, where a SPAM forum existed for a fair few weeks, and consisted of quality members such as myself – I don’t know why the fuck Zak was partaking in it though, I think he found out and blackmailed Chris to let him in otherwise he’ll tell Susie. In the end, Susie did find out and felt the need to delete it, despite the fact it was not hurting anybody, only creating light-hearted fun and not doing anything for “postcount++”.

But, yeah, I don’t give a fuck about the number of mods.

On a sidenote, I like how Microsoft Word 2007 corrects Pokemon as Pokémon. ^_^

[DarkestLight]

Some of you guys are making it sound as if the administrators use moderator promotions as a tool to keep the better members from leaving (I'm looking at you, mr_pikachu). That may or may not be true, but I'm inclined to believe it is, at least in part. You'll find that on many smaller free forums people usually mass promote their friends to moderator positions. Why? As an incentive to remain active and participate. That's why I believe there are so many moderators here; it has nothing to do with "needing" 20-30 mods as TPM can easily survive with 3-4 active super moderators and 1-2 administrators.



O.o I'm not being mean to any of the mod staff, but I honestly wasn't all super chummy chummy with any of the staff when I was modded, let alone think that they considered me their friend. They just prolly saw me and was like SLAVEGOOD WORKER!

I recognized a few names here and there, but yeah, no real connection. But I'm just speaking for me, and I'm sure Chris and Weasie will prolly rape me now for saying such words. :O

Now Houndy, the hell are my cookies for posting in this topic again. You know I hate SRS BSNS!

[Master Rudy]

Furthermore, this isn't like other forums where the modding staff can be considered a staff, where full-time active participation is a requirement. Here, mods are just members who can be trusted with responsibility. Mods here aren't required to be online any more than once a week, and even then if one is inactive for longer, it isn't a big deal. At other forums, even a few days of inactivity could warrant a demodding. That's because we actually have lives, work, school, outside interests.

Glad to see that's not really an issue for you guys anymore. Back in the day the whole "let us know if your going to be gone for more than ten days" crap was just that.....crap.


Give us a talk-shit forum.

A spam forum of some sort could be potentially bad. Read below......


On that token, though, I wouldn't be opposed to a talk-shit forum, although I would have two provisos:

1) Posts don't contribute towards post count.
2) Forced Anonymity. It's hard to flame someone if you don't know who you're flaming.

1-Does anyone even care about post count anymore? It's not like you become a god if you have more than X number of posts :sweatdrop:

2-Now I don't know if it's possible to make an anonymous post on a paticular forum. However if it is and it was active then this is inviting trouble. First off you'd have some of the more hot tempered and idiotic members speaking out about every single problem, mod, ect on a daily basis.

Plus assume it was possible for user names/sigs to be hidden, text formatting to be turned off, ect. Even if there was nothing to quickly point out who was saying something you guys need to remember that some members have a certain way of talking/typing that could give away who it is. For example a few of us use "^_^ and ^_^()" as emoticon. Plus there are a few people here that you could possibly pick out based on common spelling errors/regional spellings, ect. Going on those things it may not be much secret to who is posting what and that could lead to possible flaming problems. At worst it could also possibly lead to someone attempting to impersonate another member in the hopes that they may get them into trouble. Even if the mods are able to see who is posting what it wouldn't matter. If it erupted into an all out flame war the damage would be done. Unwarrented blame would be dished out, fingers pointed, trust broken, ect.

Finally to me a spam forum with little or no rules always appeared to be the mark of a childish/immature forum. If your trying to bring new members to the board/site then I think adding one would be the last thing you'd want to do.


I agree with the idea of a talk-shit forum. ^_^;

Why am I not surprised......


I have never heard "We need to promote this person or they will leave". So really I am getting sick of the innuendo, saying "Promotions are being used to keep members from leaving" is very very vague.

I've heard it a few times myself here and there. Why the rumor keeps spreading around I'll never know. Seriously guys if your going to make those kinds of claims then back them up with proof ~_~()

[shazza]

Plus assume it was possible for user names/sigs to be hidden, text formatting to be turned off, ect. Even if there was nothing to quickly point out who was saying something you guys need to remember that some members have a certain way of talking/typing that could give away who it is. For example a few of us use "^_^ and ^_^()" as emoticon. Plus there are a few people here that you could possibly pick out based on common spelling errors/regional spellings, ect. Going on those things it may not be much secret to who is posting what and that could lead to possible flaming problems. At worst it could also possibly lead to someone attempting to impersonate another member in the hopes that they may get them into trouble. Even if the mods are able to see who is posting what it wouldn't matter. If it erupted into an all out flame war the damage would be done. Unwarrented blame would be dished out, fingers pointed, trust broken, ect.

I agree that being anonymous is stupid, but not because of your reasons, in fact what you have argued actually sounds potentially enjoyable, but because it's just retarded. It destroys the fun of a SPAM forum with the members you know (and love). I think if it was anonymous, people are intelligent enough to somewhat reword it so it doesn't sound like them.

Perhaps anonymoity can be an optional thing - if vBB even allows it - and we can have a topic like "GUESS WHO THE POSTER IS ABOVE" and shit. Sounds good, dude.


Finally to me a spam forum with little or no rules always appeared to be the mark of a childish/immature forum. If your trying to bring new members to the board/site then I think adding one would be the last thing you'd want to do.

Nah man, treating a Pokemon forum (although the rules and strictness have lessened somewhat considerably in the past couple of years) like a concentration camp is what would most deter members. Most of the popular forums have a SPAM/rule-free forum where they can let loose on whatever they feel like; it promotes activity, interaction and laughter.


Why am I not surprised......

What do you mean by that? Are you insinuating that since, in your view, the idea is bad, that Angel Blossom is a piece of shit?

For shame, Rudy.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Shazza, that was a beautiful post. Seriously :3

And ya'll just know Shit-talking would win over Spam. But either way, can we pleeease have one?

Ooooooh, Darkest Light! I have Oatmeal and Chocolate Chip, if you wait a little while, the snicker doodles will be ready -^w^-

I don't care how we set up the Spam forum, just as long as we do. You have no idea how much I need to post random stuff. NO IDEA!!!!! *foaming at the mouth* As you can tell, all seriousness in me lasted for about one day for an hour. Must've been a full moon. X3

But Shazza speaks truths, all the most popular forums have Spam threads. Use not having one will look cold and unfriendly to people coming from them. We basically gotta kidnap members from other Pokemon places.

I got the white van, someone bring rope.

[Angel Blossom]

I've heard it a few times myself here and there. Why the rumor keeps spreading around I'll never know. Seriously guys if your going to make those kinds of claims then back them up with proof ~_~()
What I stated was a belief, not a rumor. Major difference. You don't hear atheists calling God a "rumor", do you? This is no different - it's my best explanation for why I believe there are so many moderators. And just like God, my claim is not susceptible to being proven (that is, unless we demod everybody to see what happens), but that doesn't mean my beliefs are stupid, does it?

mr_pikachu, I don't have time at the moment to address your post, but I will soon enough, rest assured. ^_^

[PNT510]

One of the nice things I've noticed about boards that have SPAM forums is it helps keep flaming in normal topics to a minimum. When two people get pissed they can just move the fight over to the SPAM section and not worry about derailing a topic.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Blady calls God a vicious rumor, so yeah. What now! HUh!? HUH!? Shit, I like your avatar!

Don't mix up religion and Pokemon sites, or I'll get SuperCatholic on you :0

Though I still think demodding to test run would be a good idea in the future just for kicks and giggles I guess, EVERYone would be crazy. Crazy-sause. In thoery, the Supermods would do it if all the mods would die. But thoeries are crap.

What do they do, by the by. I know what they do, but like, you know. Exactly.

What were we talking about? Spam Thread.

Sorry, writing a novel :0 Do stuff

[RedStarWarrior]

What I stated was a belief, not a rumor. Major difference. You don't hear atheists calling God a "rumor", do you? This is no different - it's my best explanation for why I believe there are so many moderators. And just like God, my claim is not susceptible to being proven (that is, unless we demod everybody to see what happens), but that doesn't mean my beliefs are stupid, does it?

mr_pikachu, I don't have time at the moment to address your post, but I will soon enough, rest assured. ^_^
You are expressing beliefs about something tangible. If you want your claims to be taken seriously, then the burden of proof lies with you.

[Zak]

In regards to the spam/talk shit forum, I'm not entirely against it, it could work if executed properly, but it still wouldn't be entirely without limitations. Postcounts could be disabled, but really, if you think about it, no one here really cares about postcount much anymore so why bother?

There's one other board I frequent (which I won't name) which is a vB, like TPM, albeit not a Pokemon board, but a gaming board with a similar user-base as TPM. The average level of intelligence is the same these days (as in, not SPPf or 4chan, a lot of the quality members of this place remind me of posters like shazza or Heald or Chris), and there are posts dating back to 2002 in the archive, and it's kind of become a close knit community full of memes and such, much like the way TPM is (you know how TPM has had various memes over the years, won't even deny that).

Except, the one difference is, after all those years, that board is still lively and active and gets new posts when you refresh every five minutes. I know TPM used to be that way, and there's no denying it's not like that now.

Now, I only registered at that place in 2006 so it's not like I know how strictness used to be back in their days, but they kind of do have a spam forum. Well, they have a forum called "General Discussion" which is pretty much Misc, with rules 10 time more lax. It's like a combination of your idea and Misc, like, there are intelligent discussions there, and there are a lot of joke threads and a lot of parody threads and a lot of replies to threads which would be considered taboo here. After reading all the posts here about this idea, it seems the forum I'm thinking of is a combination of Misc and what you envision.

And the best part is that the board is still holding strong, with quality posts and quality members everywhere, including the "General Discussion" forum.

Of course, like I said, there are limitations, like if someone posts something just for the sake of being retarded, without the least bit of humor, it would get deleted. Failed humor is okay, as long as that was the intention, rather than to purely be annoying. Of course, that gets everyone pointing and laughing at your failure. There are occasions where someone makes a retarded post, but then the people replying end up turning it into something.

Also regarding limitations, usually what gets people banned isn't spamming, but simply being a complete asshole and going out of your way to harass people. Sure, a little trolling here and there wont get you banned, it's just not a good idea to push it to the limits.
Also, Chris's forum that shazza was talking about (btw shaz, not sure if you were joking about me but Chris voluntarily told me about it on aim and immediately let me in, in case you're wondering) is comparable to that, sure there was a lot of having fun with memes there and fooling around, but at the same time it had excessive trolling and over-the-top garbage.
But most of the trolling here (not all) comes from hating how strict this board is, so a lot of it would stop if TPM had that, eh?

Also I hate to sound like a copycat, but I think if the idea makes it, instead of being a seperate forum, it should just be combined with Misc. Like, allow parody/joke threads and allow threads to be derailed off topic a little. I mean, as long as people are enjoying or making something out of whatever the thread turned into, no one's really spamming or being a jerk, and if someone, usually the original poster, wants to get it back on topic, they could easily do so, and allow spam if it's funny.
See, I just think that if this forum was seperate from Misc, it could go over the top in what people would go out of their way to do, like post complete garbage and run amok. Because, face it, the kind of funny/enjoyable "spam" that you hate seeing get shot down here is also Miscellaneous.

I guess I'd be down for the idea with the above standards if it ever gets off the ground.

[RedStarWarrior]

I'd rather it be a subforum of Misc.

[Houndoom_Lover]

I love discissions- there isn't a emocon strong ebnough to show you my joy X3 I don't know about merging misc into spam. I think I'd like to keep them seperate, but that sure does give the spam thread some proofies.

[RedStarWarrior]

I love discissions- there isn't a emocon strong ebnough to show you my joy X3 I don't know about merging misc into spam. I think I'd like to keep them seperate, but that sure does give the spam thread some proofies.
We discuss stuff like this all the time...

Also, you need to recheck that mod/member ratio right now. I find the ratio to be a lot different when you normally aren't on. *shrugs*

[Houndoom_Lover]

I meant overall. The ratio to moderators and active members was off. Normally, there should be twice as normal members for a mod. Just, you know, based on really active forums and all. We should model are selfs and stuff.

Nu-uh :0 I never do anyway. Important threads and stuffage

[shazza]

(btw shaz, not sure if you were joking about me but Chris voluntarily told me about it on aim and immediately let me in, in case you're wondering)

I wasn't completely serious, but that was my recollection of things!

I think postcoutns should be disabled and restrictions on what to post should be kept to a minimum (no porn etc), but double posting and all that shouldn't be banned, and that's why I think postcounts should be disabled.

Also, the names 'SPAM forum' and 'talk shit forum' are terrible. It needs to be something witty, to clarify it as some crazy place that is separated from the usual rules and regulations of TPM. I think calling it "Mt. Moon" would be awesome: it relates to pokemanz, lots of crazy shit happens at Mt. Moon, full moons make you go crazy and it makes it sound like it is a whole different area from TPM. In fact, Mt. Moon is the best name for it ever.

And it shouldn't be a sub-forum of Misc; that's retarded. It should be the last forum list, even below the archives.

I just think the only things that should be banned from it is pointless crap like "sdfsgfdgdgfdsgdfgsdgdsg" and porn. But I should be allowed to post a thread that is like 'ATTN: ZAK!' and in the post it's like "not really, nobody wants your attention lolol" to be allowed.

At least give it a try, anyway. If run properly, it would be a good addition.

And it should have its own colour scheme like previously, to further show that it is a bit different to the rest of TPM. Design it like Mt. Moon, however you do that.

Just let it be the socialist forum of the people, with perhaps two moderators who are expertees in this kind of field. It's like when network executives tamper with a writers new sitcom, and fuck it all up, but in the end you just gotta give the writer all the executive power because they know what the people want.

[Master Rudy]

I wasn't completely serious, but that was my recollection of things!

I think postcoutns should be disabled and restrictions on what to post should be kept to a minimum (no porn etc), but double posting and all that shouldn't be banned, and that's why I think postcounts should be disabled.

Also, the names 'SPAM forum' and 'talk shit forum' are terrible. It needs to be something witty, to clarify it as some crazy place that is separated from the usual rules and regulations of TPM. I think calling it "Mt. Moon" would be awesome: it relates to pokemanz, lots of crazy shit happens at Mt. Moon, full moons make you go crazy and it makes it sound like it is a whole different area from TPM. In fact, Mt. Moon is the best name for it ever.

And it shouldn't be a sub-forum of Misc; that's retarded. It should be the last forum list, even below the archives.

I just think the only things that should be banned from it is pointless crap like "sdfsgfdgdgfdsgdfgsdgdsg" and porn. But I should be allowed to post a thread that is like 'ATTN: ZAK!' and in the post it's like "not really, nobody wants your attention lolol" to be allowed.

At least give it a try, anyway. If run properly, it would be a good addition.

And it should have its own colour scheme like previously, to further show that it is a bit different to the rest of TPM. Design it like Mt. Moon, however you do that.

Just let it be the socialist forum of the people, with perhaps two moderators who are expertees in this kind of field. It's like when network executives tamper with a writers new sitcom, and fuck it all up, but in the end you just gotta give the writer all the executive power because they know what the people want.

Well when you put it that way I guess in the end it couldn't really hurt things. Now I'm no rules Nazi but my main concern is not enough regulation and rules in effect. It's got to have something to set it apart while at the same time not be a total burden and problem to the board. Too many rules and it's just another miscellaneous forum. Too few and it potentially turns into a spamtastic mess like some of the more notorious boards on GameFAQs and 4Chan.

As for mods on a random ass board with potentially controversial topics I saw they got to be two people with opposing viewpoints. Why not Blade and Roy? That's about as opposite as you can get I think!

*starts playing the theme music to The Odd Couple* XD

[Crazy Elf Boy]

Another quick bit of logic here since it seems my last one was ignored. There are currently 21 Moderators over 24 forums, 2 Super Moderators and 4 Admins making a staff list of 27. By my count we have around 49 active posting non modded members on this forum, since 2 of the admins aren't very active at all it brings us around Houndoom_Lovers magic number of 2 members to 1 mod. As for why there are so many mods needed let me refer you to two old adages.
1: Don't put all your eggs in one basket
2: Many hands make light work

Appointing a few mods to look over the entire forum is much like giving them full time jobs to look over a website which they may or may not want. But with more mods the load is lighter on the individual person therefor they are also more likely to do a better more thorough job rather then just rush it. Also people tend to go away on vacation sometimes or just have computer problems in general and with your method rather then 1 possibly 2 forums which also have other mods being unmodded for a brief period of time. A few forums would go completely unchecked for the time that the mod is away for.

[Master Rudy]

Appointing a few mods to look over the entire forum is much like giving them full time jobs to look over a website which they may or may not want. But with more mods the load is lighter on the individual person therefor they are also more likely to do a better more thorough job rather then just rush it. Also people tend to go away on vacation sometimes or just have computer problems in general and with your method rather then 1 possibly 2 forums which also have other mods being unmodded for a brief period of time. A few forums would go completely unchecked for the time that the mod is away for.

This right here is what the people who are still making the arguement for less mods seem to fail to take into account. Even with the arguement that the Super Mods can take on the extra workload it's silly to have less. Do you really think the SM's want to spend nearly every last minute on the forums checking over each and every topic on every single board? At that point TPM becomes a job and it's no longer fun to be here. The SM's exist as backup in the event that a problem occurs and there isn't a mod online in that paticular forum to take care of it. It shouldn't have to be their job to take on an increased workload accross the entire board.

[Blademaster]

Who's talking about an extra workload? Are we assumed to be too damn stupid to, when we see a problem, waltz on over to whatever Mod is online at the moment and PM them to say "Hey, shit's going down in Misc.. Go fix it."? It's not like we need Mods babysitting us 24/7. We CAN fend for ourselves in the event that - gasp - a fight in Misc. breaks out or spambot #927 pops in for a visit and we have to wait an hour for DragoKnight or Andrew to get online.

[Heald]

There is a lot more work than deleting or responding to posts or having to intervene in threads that have reached boiling point or banning a spambot promising you better performance in the bedroom. My day-to-day public moderation activities constitute only a small part of my responsibilities. Otherwise, I'm often contacted on AIM, or people often send me PMs (I'm forever having to delete items from my inbox and sent items, lest it becomes full and I cannot receive PMs) and I have to respond to these. Furthermore, I have to work with my fellow Misc Mods as well as the Supermods and Admins with issues such as member problems, rules revisions, proposed changes, infractions etc. Now consider the fact that this workload is divided across 3 mods. If I was the sole person in charge of this, I'd never get through all of it efficiently or effectively, and the quality of the forum would deteriorate because of it.

Having 3 mods also makes things far more democratic and allows decisions to be thought through and constructively made. At any given time, if one of the 3 Misc mods wants to make a change or an important decision, instead of just implementing it without giving thought to the consequences, we discuss it and whether or not it is necessary or if it can be amended. In rare cases, we have to make spot decisions without this discussion, but then we discuss it afterwards. Either way, better to have 3 decision-makers making informed choices rather than one dictator forcing his whim on you all.

As for whether you can be trusted to fend for yourselves...well, if recent history has shown us anything, if a fight or a flame war does kick off, more often than not members dive in all guns ablazing rather than trying to cool the situation, usually with the mentality 'Better get as many punches in before the mods break up the fight', and even when a mod has stepped in and told you to stop, some people continue, and hence infractions have to be handed out. Having a mod online there and then and having to wait 4 or 5 hours for a mod to show up can be the difference between a few deleted posts and the thread being prevented from being derailed, and the thread having to be shut down and infractions handed out because people didn't know when to shut up. I'm not deliberately trying to patronise you all, but lets face it, ever since Misc's inception it has always been a volatile storm.

[Master Rudy]

Never said folks were too stupid to speak up Blade. However think about it. What if we did go ahead with ditching mods since they "aren't needed" and we have too many of them? Let's say something major goes down in miscellaneous that requires instant attention from a staff member. Just one minor problem......due to getting rid of the ones that weren't needed there is not a single, mod, SM or admin online and at best it may be several hours before someone does log in. At worse what if the sole miscellaneous mod doesn't log in that day and for whatever various reasons they may have none of the supers log in either?

Plus despite popular belief you'd be surprised at how often people don't speak up on matters that require mods. Granted you'll always have your members that will say something. TPM is a good example of a website where the active members are smart/reasonable enough to say something in the event something gets out of hand. However I've been on boards where people won't say jack shit about a flame war. In those cases it solely falls upon the mod to do all the work. As another example let's say Member A has Viewpoint A and Member B has Viewpoint B. A is reasonable about it but B is just flat out being an asshole about it. A gets somewhat defensive which in turn fires B up more. A who is normally calm is clearly getting more angry as the posts go on and finally decides to contact a mod.......

.......until they come to think about the fact that if they let the matter drop five posts ago they wouldn't be in the middle of a flame war in the first place. On some of the more extreme/poorly run boards all parties involved get into trouble equally with no questions asked. All it takes is one such bad experience for a person to carry the mentality of "if I bring it up to a mod I'll get into trouble" from board to board. People who think along those lines when they get into a heated debate don't help the matter when they don't speak up about it.

Obviously some of you seem to be having trouble grasping how much work is actually involved. If you have never been a mod it's understandable. While it's easier on some boards than it is on others, it's still far from the cake walk that some people are making it out to be. Hell at one point Heald even said he'd goes nuts if he was the lone wolf in this paticular forum. If you guys are still having trouble understanding then give it a little bit of time. I'm sure one of the mods would be more than willing to try to explain it a bit more.

EDIT-Our good old Rage Lord happened to do it while I was typing my post....imagine that......

[RedStarWarrior]

I never wanted to call it the SPAM forum. I was merely describing what it was...

[shazza]

Mt. Moon can be a magical place.

[RedStarWarrior]

Mt. Moon can be a magical place.
I like that name. We'd still need a mod or two to get rid of the completely useless crap and protect against porn/gore, etc., but other than that, I don't think it needs any rules. I want it to be like the secret forum (Chris would be so proud!).

[Zak]

I still think it should be combined into Misc. If it's seperate, even as a subforum, things could get crazy.

Maybe rename all of Misc in the process to Mt. Moon or whatever you wanna call it. It'd be intelligent discussions with a bit of silliness here and there, that way it'll be more lively and not make us look like pompous strict humorless assholes (which supposedly a lot of you claim drives people away), but at the same time not look downright retarded. Maybe rename it to something weird and different every now any then. See, if all the silliness is combined into a single forum separated from the actual serious Misc discussion, it'd look more retarded than funny/enjoyable and eventually lose it's touch after about a month.

[RedStarWarrior]

I still think it should be combined into Misc. If it's seperate, even as a subforum, things could get crazy.

Maybe rename all of Misc in the process to Mt. Moon or whatever you wanna call it. It'd be intelligent discussions with a bit of silliness here and there, that way it'll be more lively and not make us look like pompous strict humorless assholes (which supposedly a lot of you claim drives people away), but at the same time not look downright retarded. Maybe rename it to something weird and different every now any then. See, if all the silliness is combined into a single forum separated from the actual serious Misc discussion, it'd look more retarded than funny/enjoyable and eventually lose it's touch after about a month.
No. Misc can be serious discussion about other things, like sports, religion, history, whatever. We need to have the fun time randomness separate.

[Zak]

No. Misc can be serious discussion about other things, like sports, religion, history, whatever. We need to have the fun time randomness separate.

Okay, you keep repeating saying "they should be seperate" "it should be a subforum" etc, but aside from the fact that I don't agree, I've yet to hear an argument from you as to why? Keep stating it over and over, but it won't really convince anyone until you say why it's be better that way. For instance, I clearly explained why it would be better to have them together.

[RedStarWarrior]

I consider the idea of serious discussion to be merit enough for them to be separate.

Or do you like, let's say, a thread about a deadly tsunami to be filled with posts along the lines of "Surf time!"???

[Houndoom_Lover]

I liked the idea of having it at the very bottom. :0

[RedStarWarrior]

I liked the idea of having it at the very bottom. :0
I'd like to have it be viewable by members only.

[Zak]

I consider the idea of serious discussion to be merit enough for them to be separate.

Or do you like, let's say, a thread about a deadly tsunami to be filled with posts along the lines of "Surf time!"???

Well, given what I was envisioning, sure it may have the potential for serious threads to be ripped apart. But, that's where we'd come in. Not all the time, though.
Like, say, a funny article about some celebrity doing something stupid, I wouldn't expect that to be stopped from getting ripped apart. Same with the picture thread, because, even if it may digress into crazy arguments, that won't exactly HURT the thread, because people would keep posting pictures. Though if it gets out of hand and someone PMs us saying that they feel they're being harassed here (which I said before shouldn't be tolerated), then they can PM us.
And I forget if I mentioned this before, I wouldn't expect most racist shit to be allowed, unless it's an obvious joke.

The way I'd imagined it, was if anyone is bothered by their thread being ripped apart, they can try and get them back on topic, and if that doesn't work, PM us. Like, if someone wants to post something that's a serious religion debate and doesn't want trolling, then we can keep an eye on that thread.

And about your tsunami example, while a lot of people on this board may be silly at times, I think most of us here are mature enough and not distasteful to shit up a thread about a deadly tsunami, or a dead celebrity (well, that's questionable), or a problem someone's going through, or a tragic incident or whatever. Those are the kind of threads we'd be keeping an eye on.

Also about the harassment issue, kind of like Pants (PNT) said above, if there's more lax then it would more likely keep the flaming and stuff to a minimum.

It may seem weird to you, but this system actually works quite well at this other place, and I'm sure it would work here as well, if my statement about the tastefulness/intelligence of the average members here is accurate.

[RedStarWarrior]

And I feel it would save us all (members and mods) a whole lot of problems if we just separated them. I don't want members to have to worry about which thread they can have fun in and which thread they have to be serious in. The tsunami was an extreme example where most people would expect you to be serious, but I don't want the members deciding one way or another (i.e. bitching if their thread becomes non-serious). If we have two forums, then members know what to expect when posting a thread in either.

[Zak]

And I feel it would save us all (members and mods) a whole lot of problems if we just separated them. I don't want members to have to worry about which thread they can have fun in and which thread they have to be serious in. The tsunami was an extreme example where most people would expect you to be serious, but I don't want the members deciding one way or another (i.e. bitching if their thread becomes non-serious). If we have two forums, then members know what to expect when posting a thread in either.

Common sense, Scott.

I think most people here have common sense enough to know the bounds of when not to fuck around, and won't really have to worry about that. But if someone posts a thread and is worried about it getting ripped apart, they can state in the original post "no joke replies, please", and we can get on it if people fuck it up.
It's also about knowing whether to expect it to be ripped apart, so if you think it might be and don't want it to, give a heads-up.

Not only would the "seperate spam forum" get boring and lose it's touch after a while and not seem funny anymore, but there are some already existing threads in Misc which I think could use a little more freedom than what we're enforcing in them. The picture thread, for instance. Like I said, as long as people aren't being harassed, no matter how much people digress into talking about something else, it's not really gonna hurt it because people will keep posting pictures and get commented on and the off-topic shenanigans will end on their own automatically.
Same with certain other Misc threads, but that's a worthy example.

[RedStarWarrior]

Common sense, Scott.

I think most people here have common sense enough to know the bounds of when not to fuck around, and won't really have to worry about that. But if someone posts a thread and is worried about it getting ripped apart, they can state in the original post "no joke replies, please", and we can get on it if people fuck it up.
It's also about knowing whether to expect it to be ripped apart, so if you think it might be and don't want it to, give a heads-up.

Not only would the "seperate spam forum" get boring and lose it's touch after a while and not seem funny anymore, but there are some already existing threads in Misc which I think could use a little more freedom than what we're enforcing in them. The picture thread, for instance. Like I said, as long as people aren't being harassed, no matter how much people digress into talking about something else, it's not really gonna hurt it because people will keep posting pictures and get commented on and the off-topic shenanigans will end on their own automatically.
Same with certain other Misc threads, but that's a worthy example.
People do not have common sense these days, Zak.

How about we have people label the spam threads instead? I agree that some of the existing threads in Misc could use some more freedom (the picture one was only enforced because no one was posting any damn pictures).

[Drago]

I know I'm late to the party (I always seem to take a couple days off right when an interesting topic emerges...), but I as a mod certainly appreciate having RSW and Heald on-board to help me out here... I don't claim to have all the answers, so sometimes being able to discuss what to do about a situation is necessary. Similarly, should I make a mistake, I would expect either of them to be able to say 'I don't agree with that one' and rectify it if necessary. Having more than one opinion stops my dictatorship from flourishing, you see.

So we're onto a spam forum now? I'm not opposed to it, but I'm mostly curious to see what then isn't considered misc. Material. The ctrl+V thread, for example?

[Zak]

People do not have common sense these days, Zak.

How about we have people label the spam threads instead? I agree that some of the existing threads in Misc could use some more freedom (the picture one was only enforced because no one was posting any damn pictures).

Again, people would have common sense to tell between the two. And I guess this is what it comes down to, you don't seem to agree but I think people on this board have enough common sense, this isn't SPPf. People on that other board I compared us to sure seemed to, and we're about on the same wavelength if not higher.

But, while we disagree on this, how about we wait and see what Kris (Angel Blossom) has to say about the matter since she's clearly the expert here. :)

[mr_pikachu]

In the meantime, it might be helpful to know what board you're talking about, Zak. I get the sense that many of us -- myself included -- are having a difficult time envisioning how a combined serious discussion/spam haven would work as you've suggested. Since it's hard to visualize, the opportunity to see it in action would probably help.

[Magmar]

*Rolls in way too late* Hi :D

Anyways, the mods really don't do much besides clean up spam because seriously, there's what, 40 active non-mods? Roughly? And how many mods, supermods and admins? It's not like work isn't getting done. When there is a problem, it gets taken care of pretty quickly. If mods really think they have some big job or are making some tragic sacrifice of their time and energy to take care of TPM of all things, they're quite mistaken. Supermods and admins, on the other hand, I can see.

But if you walk around stroking yourself over being a mod, just remember, you're a mod on a fucking Pokemon forum, and nobody is going to care except people that post here. In fact, 99% of anyone over the age of 8 will probably laugh at you. They also won't understand how awesome this place actually is and just how un-Pokemon-ish it really is these days, lol. I mean, I love it, but will I tell my friends that when I'm home sick with bronchitis I post on a Pokemon forum? Probably not, lol.

Edit: I remember when I was a mod and TPM was brand spanking new, and one time I closed a completely spam topic in the Misc forum when I was a General Discussion mod, because new members were all replying to it like OMFG THIS IS SPAM REMOVE IT PLEASE MODS and so I just locked it, and I got seriously reamed out over it. Seriously, people used to be REALLY uptight in these parts. It really makes you wonder why we spent our precious adolescence posting here and losing sleep over... TPM drama...

[Zak]

In the meantime, it might be helpful to know what board you're talking about, Zak. I get the sense that many of us -- myself included -- are having a difficult time envisioning how a combined serious discussion/spam haven would work as you've suggested. Since it's hard to visualize, the opportunity to see it in action would probably help.

I guess you have a point, so guess I'll just whip it out. The board in question is FFShrine (http://forums.ffshrine.org/index.php), and the "General Discussion" forum I was referring to is here (http://forums.ffshrine.org/forumdisplay.php?f=2).

If you look through it, amidst all the goofing around and stuff, there are some serious threads (that would be the place for discussion about religion and politics as well, as I said), which may have a few joke replies here and there, but are taken seriously for the most part and not ripped apart like Scott is worried it will be. Why? Because people there are intelligent and have common sense, much like us and not like SPPf/Gaia/4chan etc. And I guess also because they're used to having that as their Misc discussion which can be fooled around in as well.

Also I noticed a lot of the threads there are actually probably things you'd see in our Misc 8 years ago but not now.

[shazza]

Combining Misc with Mt. Moon? Fuck that for a joke. Some people aren't going to like Mt. Moon; those that chill primarily in Misc don't need to suffer the harsh cruelties of flamewars and whatnot. And if they are combined, then it won't be Mt. Moon at all, it's just going to be "Misc but let's be a tad little less strict". It's stupid, mateeeeeee.

[Jeff]

I don't see what the harm in creating Mt. Moon would be. If it gets old and inactive, we'll just deal with it then.

[shazza]

http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Creatures_and_Cartoons/Pokemon/Clefairy.gif

[abunaidesu]

No need to form an opinion, folks, mine is good enough for all of us

.

[Master Rudy]

People do not have common sense these days, Zak.

Well there's a saying I've heard before and it's one I sometimes like to use myself:

"Common sense isn't very common anymore."

In short if you expect people to be smart about something then about 90% of the time they will astound you with stupidity. Case in point take a look at this exchange I witnessed the other night at work:

Manager-Thanks for calling Domino's. Is this for pick up or delivery?
Customer-Delivery.....I'm at the hotel in Florence.
M-Ok....do you have the address or phone number on hand?
C-I said I'm at the hotel.
M-Which one?
C-THE HOTEL!
M-.......ma'am there are 32 hotels in Florence......which one?

If we leave a Spam forum combined with Misc then that's inviting trouble. You'd expect people to be smart about certain topics but without fail you'll see one idiot ruin it for everyone else. I'm slowly leaning towards yes on the matter but if we do this then Shazza is right. A Spam/Misc forum is simply the current forum with more leeway. Eventually it's going to get abused and it'll just defeat the purpose.

[RedStarWarrior]

.
How adorable!


Combining Misc with Mt. Moon? Fuck that for a joke. Some people aren't going to like Mt. Moon; those that chill primarily in Misc don't need to suffer the harsh cruelties of flamewars and whatnot. And if they are combined, then it won't be Mt. Moon at all, it's just going to be "Misc but let's be a tad little less strict". It's stupid, mateeeeeee.


If we leave a Spam forum combined with Misc then that's inviting trouble. You'd expect people to be smart about certain topics but without fail you'll see one idiot ruin it for everyone else. I'm slowly leaning towards yes on the matter but if we do this then Shazza is right. A Spam/Misc forum is simply the current forum with more leeway. Eventually it's going to get abused and it'll just defeat the purpose.
Looks like I'm not the only one with such concerns.

[Gavin Luper]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't think the SPAM forum is a good idea.

It just boils down to, well ... I honestly don't see the point of it. I think that's it. More pragmatically, it seems like more of our energy would be spent on anarchic shit-talk and general faggotry and less on, you know, making interesting/fun posts in Misc, or trying to liven up all the other subforums of our site and encourage members to be more active.

I know the argument for it is kind of that it will create more free-flowing discussions and activity, but at the end of the day, aren't we basically left with the same level of activity in all the "real" forums (perhaps less), with the new addition of, essentially, a forum full of shit?

Plus, isn't random shit-talk kind of what the chat room's for?

So, I guess my position's clear: I'm very much against the creation of a SPAM forum.

[shazza]

It just boils down to, well ... I honestly don't see the point of it. I think that's it. More pragmatically, it seems like more of our energy would be spent on anarchic shit-talk and general faggotry and less on, you know, making interesting/fun posts in Misc, or trying to liven up all the other subforums of our site and encourage members to be more active.

I know the argument for it is kind of that it will create more free-flowing discussions and activity, but at the end of the day, aren't we basically left with the same level of activity in all the "real" forums (perhaps less), with the new addition of, essentially, a forum full of shit?

I would hope the energy would be spread out. In fact, I feel a bit excited that if there was a SPAM forum, that more interest in Misc would be put into creating discussions about current affairs, who we are and whatnot. I think fun could still entail; the same kind of fun that Misc has more or less endured over the past few months. I also believe that with such a forum, retarded bickering - which seems to have increased in recent weeks - would be less. It also gives the moderator the authority to be more stricter when seeing shit like that occur in Misc, knowing well and good that it's best suited for Mt. Moon, so they can in effect enforce an actual warning.

In a way, the best of both worlds get it: it gives more allowance for rules, but it also gives people a chance to break these rules outside of TPM. I'm not saying that the other forums will become more strict overall, but just when you see arguing and going off topic too much, a moderator now has it in their jurisdiction to warn them that they well and truly know it belongs in Mt. Moon.

If you can't beat them, join them. It's like giving heroin junkies a place to shoot up!


Plus, isn't random shit-talk kind of what the chat room's for?

I think that's more real-time based, and it's sort've a different thing. In the forum, people can respond to usually potentially chat based question, but in their own time. I also feel the forum would try its best for potential humor.


So, I guess my position's clear: I'm very much against the creation of a SPAM forum.

Understandable. I argued a few months back that TPM should become more democratic, although I was probably a bit radical to suggest we rotate our mod and admin team on fixed terms. I think once the discussions are in place, and there seems to be people with two sides, then polls should be conducted:
1) Should we condense the forums to a proposed model? (Such as Heald's)
2) Should we create a SPAM forum, i.e. 'Mt. Moon'?

Or something like that.

P.S: I think the topics 'Mod to Member ratio...' and 'Condensing forums' are really intertwined!

[Gavin Luper]

Mm, I do see that the chat room =/= a spam forum. Fair call.

I think my basic sentiment is that Misc ought to be the place for miscellaneous discussions, both serious and frivolous. Why can't misc itself be a general talk-shit forum as it stands, except maintaining the rules that govern general decorum? I'm not talking necessarily about the rules that relate to relevancy and things like that; I think perhaps the rules could be a bit looser in that regard to make the forum a little more relaxed and fun. I think the fun and relaxed vibe could certainly be fostered within the system we have now. But things like flaming, swearing, general codes of decency (no porn/gore, for example), and treating other people with general respect ... I seriously can't see why I would want to get on board with basically sanctioning that behaviour and dedicating an entire subforum to it.

I definitely see your argument for Mt. Moon in terms of it being the place people are sent to to sort out their arguments, but frankly I see that as a misuse of forum space. If people are going to scream and abuse each other, they can get the hell off the forum and resolve (or exacerbate) their issues in private - via PM, AIM, MSN, whatever - but why on earth should it be done in public?

I guess what I'm saying is that I see your argument for Mt. Moon, and I think there's something valid to it in as much as I think that kind of fun/frivolous/relaxed vibe ought to exist here on TPM, but I definitely don't agree with the creation of such a forum that allows the kind of behaviour described above. I think it would be more beneficial to adapt Misc to become a place where serious and fun discussions coexist and rules of good conduct and general respect still apply.

We could even rename it Mt. Moon; I quite like that name!

[RedStarWarrior]

why on earth should it be done in public?
Entertainment value.

[Gavin Luper]

Entertainment value.

I find myself unable to fault your logic.

:eek:

FFUUUUUUUUUU

[Magmar]

See, I think a spam forum is a good idea, but maybe we should have a certain seniority limitation to who can post in it, so people can prove they're not going to abuse it.

I mean, when someone who's been here a while posted a one-word reply, a smiley, or just a period, since we know him or her really well, it's not a big deal. In fact we laugh and keep scrolling, because we know how that person communicates, and we get the joke. When a new person does that, we start to doubt whether they are taking the board seriously. Not that many of us take it VERY seriously. I mean, I don't take it very seriously, but I respect it enough to usually post something of somewhat substance. We just have to know our place--in a forum that's almost died many times, and we're right now in a good, busy run that hopefully lasts a long time. And since we all hate to admit but like each other, we stick around and try to keep up the quality.

Can spam be quality? Absolutely. The Ctrl + V thread is quality... is there a purpose? Yes. Is there any substance there? Yes. Is it probably forged by at least 2/3 of the posts? Absolutely. (Don't even deny it, people from the fanfiction forum, that you post clips of your stories there on purpose!) In a way, we're just showing snippets of our lives, and we've all accepted it and just go along and continue to get the satisfaction of the thread.

[RedStarWarrior]

See, I think a spam forum is a good idea, but maybe we should have a certain seniority limitation to who can post in it, so people can prove they're not going to abuse it.

I mean, when someone who's been here a while posted a one-word reply, a smiley, or just a period, since we know him or her really well, it's not a big deal. In fact we laugh and keep scrolling, because we know how that person communicates, and we get the joke. When a new person does that, we start to doubt whether they are taking the board seriously. Not that many of us take it VERY seriously. I mean, I don't take it very seriously, but I respect it enough to usually post something of somewhat substance. We just have to know our place--in a forum that's almost died many times, and we're right now in a good, busy run that hopefully lasts a long time. And since we all hate to admit but like each other, we stick around and try to keep up the quality.

Can spam be quality? Absolutely. The Ctrl + V thread is quality... is there a purpose? Yes. Is there any substance there? Yes. Is it probably forged by at least 2/3 of the posts? Absolutely. (Don't even deny it, people from the fanfiction forum, that you post clips of your stories there on purpose!) In a way, we're just showing snippets of our lives, and we've all accepted it and just go along and continue to get the satisfaction of the thread.
I think a limit on who can post is a good idea. Another forum I go to has karma levels in which you gain higher level the more you are active and as you reach certain levels, more forums become available for you to post in. Now, I do not want to implement the system here, but the idea of allowing someone to post in the forum after a certain number of posts are made by them sounds like a possible idea.

[Magmar]

I like the number of posts, but I would also think a minimum of a month's active membership, or maybe three months, would be valid as well. After all, updating an access list case-by-case using the UBB must be difficult, and I'm not sure if we can implement post count/longevity limits on a subforum. Can we do that with this technology? Then you'd have to apply to get in, maybe? But how much of the administrative team's time should be spent on permissions for a spam forum? There's much to be ironed out... but I think we got this ;-)

[RedStarWarrior]

The capability to change permissions as you reach a post count number is in the software. After all, your label changes after a certain number of posts. I don't know how easy it would be to exploit the existing code to not only change your user title, but grant you access to a forum.

[VirtualPlay]

The capability to change permissions as you reach a post count number is in the software. After all, your label changes after a certain number of posts. I don't know how easy it would be to exploit the existing code to not only change your user title, but grant you access to a forum.

I don't know exactly how it works on vB, but I have worked with SMF and phpBB before, and both have it easy to add access to a certain forum based on postcount or length of account activity, even if it's a simple workaround such as "at 50 posts, you get rank 'Not-a-n00b'; all members with rank 'Not-a-n00b' or higher have access to 'not a n00b chat' board."

So yeah, the technology's there. The worst that they'll have to do is implement a mod to the forum that allows that to happen, but I honestly think the coding is already there. It just needs to be implemented.

As for my views on the whole thing, I'm willing to give it a try. If it fails horribly, we fix it and go back; if it works (or at least doesn't flop), we keep it around. I don't frequent Misc, so I don't see a lot of the crap that goes on here; heck, I'm only posting because I've been told many times about this topic so I came to check it out finally.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Yeah, but tacking on extra rules to the place we don't even have yet kinda defeats the point. I say, let's start the bitch and we'll see what happens and add rules after.

:0

[abunaidesu]

I condone the post count seniority proposal.

[PNT510]

If new people wanna come in and spam in the spam forum then let them. It's a spam forum! It should be no porn and no advertising. Anything else goes.

[RedStarWarrior]

If new people wanna come in and spam in the spam forum then let them. It's a spam forum! It should be no porn and no advertising. Anything else goes.
Yes, so all the new spambots can easily post in there...

[shazza]

SPAM bots don't have self-awareness; I don't see them able to be clickin the warning thing before entering the forum!

As for allowing new members in or not at a certain quota of posts/time joined at, I'll sit on the fence for this one as I can see both logical sides of argument and don't particularly care either way.

[firepokemon]

Am I expected to read four pages or what?Mt. Moon wtf is that? Spew?

[Gavin Luper]

Yes, so all the new spambots can easily post in there...

What's the difference?

[firepokemon]

Can someone make a oneline summary of this thread for me?

[Jeff]

Waaah, too many mods. Let's make a spam forum, we'll call it Mt. Moon!

^ pretty much sums it up.

[shazza]

Yeah, fp, you can give me a kiss on the lips later for thinking of such a great name.

[Houndoom_Lover]

*dressed as Luigi Largo* Do I needta stab a bitch, Jeff? :0 My thread was no where near that whiny.

Also, I vote that the site has a movie night. Repo! will be playing.

[Master Rudy]

Seeing how this is going I think we should just say the hell with talking about it. Just add it already, pick one or two mods and see what happens. At worse if it's a total mess/disaster then delete the fucker. Just make sure the mods know full well going in that if the board tanks that it may not be a long term job.


The capability to change permissions as you reach a post count number is in the software. After all, your label changes after a certain number of posts. I don't know how easy it would be to exploit the existing code to not only change your user title, but grant you access to a forum.

Shouldn't be too hard to program in Red. After all the private boards for the staff are only visible and accessable by those that are mods or higher. Therefore it shouldn't be too hard to program it to allow only those who are say Cool Trainer or higher into the spam forum.

[PNT510]

Yes, so all the new spambots can easily post in there...

Just like they can easily post in the other dozen plus forums we have?

[Kurosakura]

Shouldn't be too hard to program in Red. After all the private boards for the staff are only visible and accessable by those that are mods or higher. Therefore it shouldn't be too hard to program it to allow only those who are say Cool Trainer or higher into the spam forum.[/color]

*looks at post count and whistles* 400 posts until I'm legally allowed to spam!

Anyways, some people came back and made new accounts, like Systematic Revolution, and I'd like to think of myself as fairly productive, so the Cool Trainer title seems a bit unfair for those who contribute to TPM and aren't even allowed in a spam forum due to low post count.

[shazza]

I agree with Kurosakura; if there WAS going to be a minimum limit of postcount, it should be something like 100, not 500. There have been an influx of many new members in the past few months, mostly in ASB and RPG, who exhibit quality posts but still are only Junior Trainer's or Beginner Trainer's. TPM isn't very active these days, and to achieve 500 quality posts, let alone 100 posts, could take some time.

[Bear]

Hey, I used to spend countless hours in Mt Moon leveling up so I could beat that stupid level 16 Raticate. I resent it being the name of a Spam forum!

Seriously though, by creating a spam forum, aren't we just encouraging PC++ type behavior? I mean, I know that by making rules against spam we're potentially driving away members, but are they the types of members we even want in the first place? I don't think the desire to "break the rules" and post spam warrants creation of an entirely new subforum just for that purpose. Shouldn't we be encouraging people to resist the urge to spam and improve the overall quality of their posts instead? I dunno, maybe I'm just a crabby old fart who can't keep up with these young whippersnappers anymore...

[Jeff]

It isn't postcount++ if posting there doesn't increase your post count. If people are just looking for a way to boost their post count, they won't find it there. So the only reason people would want to post there would be for fun.

[shazza]

If Mt. Moon was postcount+, it would make me still feel a bit self-conscious still of what I could and could not post, therefore constraining what can be posted.

[Bear]

Ah I see. Well if posting there doesn't increase your post count I could concede a little more, but I still am kinda iffy about the idea. Maybe I just don't personally understand how posting spam could be considered "fun" in the first place. That's not reason enough to deny it though, since it's just my opinion. If enough people find it fun then why not? Just don't combine it with this forum -_-

[shazza]

It's not "SPAM", in the sense that it is like "sdfsfsfdgfdg". It should be silliness, a bit more orientated, chat orientated and just no holds barred. I guess we won't know until we try.

[Master Rudy]

I agree with Kurosakura; if there WAS going to be a minimum limit of postcount, it should be something like 100, not 500. There have been an influx of many new members in the past few months, mostly in ASB and RPG, who exhibit quality posts but still are only Junior Trainer's or Beginner Trainer's. TPM isn't very active these days, and to achieve 500 quality posts, let alone 100 posts, could take some time.

Merely an example guys. Just tossed out Cool Trainer as an example. It doesn't HAVE to be that paticular rank. Of course I don't really know how hard or easy it is to program that sort of thing. I know on some boards it's based on post number and on others it's based on rank. If the type of board TPM uses can only do it by rank then at the very least it would need to be set up to allow Jr Trainer or higher.

Besides 250 isn't really that high. On a day where I've really got nothing better to do I can easily put out 10-20 posts a day on a message board. And I'm talking decent posts, not crap ^_~

[RedStarWarrior]

What's the difference?
There's a difference between fun spam and advertising.

If you don't know, then gtfo.

[Heald]

Okay, I've read everyone's responses to ideas and everyone's suggestions, here is what I gather as a proposed consensus:

Name: Mt. Moon
- I propose that this be its starting name. In line with its theme as a silly forum, it could be changed every month or whenever as a joke.

Visibility: Members Only
Non-Members cannot even see the forum. Registered members can see the forum and view its contents.

Posting Privileges: Application
People apply to the Admins to be allowed access to post in the forum, like the Web Contributors Forum. The general minimum requirement will be set with anyone falling underneath the requirement rejected, except in special circumstances. The minimum requirement ought to be that you have to have been a member for at least a month. You must all have accrued 100 posts.

However, while this is a minimum requirement, it is not a guarantee. If the mods in charge of the forum deem the member is not worthy, his application is rejected and he must wait a week to reapply.

These stipulations and how to apply will be put on the 'warning' page.

Warning Page: Yes
If we can, once clicking to enter the forum the warning page will be displayed before going any further, basically stating 'Beware! Adult content! etc' as well as stating how to apply for posting privileges, although whether this is feasible or not depends on the board technology.

Rules: The bare minimum
Basically, rules ought to be the bare minimum, basically to avoid the forums from getting into any legal trouble or gaining a reputation of being particularly vile. So, hardcore porn, illegal porn, full frontal nudity and posting any sort of illegal content (including links to torrents and the like) is strictly forbidden. Without this compromise, I doubt our proposal will be accepted.

There has been some discussion about if certain language should be banned, such as overtly racist language (e.g. the 'n-word'). Although I don't condone it, I think at least to begin with, apart from obviously illegal stuff as noted above, everything is fair game. If people start being idiots and just spamming certain racial slurs over and over, then they can be shunned (see Moderation below). If there is a consensus that certain language ought to be banned after the board's creation, then we can implement it later. I'm not saying this to defend certain language, but it cannot truly be no holds barred if there are certain banned words.

Furthermore, apart from posting illegal content, it should be that you cannot get infracted on this board.

Moderation: 2-3 Mods
I think 3 Mods should be picked to moderate it. Since there seems to be an attitude over there being too many mods, and since there ought to be experienced members handing this forum, they ought to be picked from the existing staff force. If need be, some can step down from their current positions if they feel they would only want to mod a single forum, especially one to be as likely as volatile as this one. At a later date, if a member shows himself/herself to be capable, he or she could be modded as well. Perhaps even democratically!

Mods have a few duties: 1, they decide whose applications get approved (say like America's Got Talent, a majority of 2 to 1 means they are approved). 2, they delete illegal content, shit posts and choose what approved members get banned from the forum. 3, they decide if any threads are particularly funny and deserve to be archived. For this duty, obviously people can request a thread to be archived.

Other things:

Post Count Disabled: basically posts in Mt. Moon don't contribute to forum post count. This discourages shit posts, PC++ behaviour and other useless junk.

No Anonymity: People seem to overwhelmingly disagree with Anonymity, and so do I, so I guess that is no longer an issue.

1 Hour between Thread Creation: Just to stop people spamming crap threads and to encourage fresh, varied content. Works on other boards. Can be extended or removed after the board is created.

Max 30 threads: I say a maximum of 30 threads at once, at least to begin with. We can either increase or decrease this limit after the forum's creation if we need to, but I say 30 is a pretty good benchmark.

Place on the Forum: This is undecided. I am firmly against it being a subforum of Misc, but I say to begin with it goes in between Interactive and Archives. It can be moved later if we need to.
_____________

That's basically my proposal.

I think the sooner we get it up and running, the better it will be. It's going to end up we're going to sit here arguing over minor details that can be edited very easily after it is created, so unless you have a very real pressing concern, I say we just go for it with this proposal. Too much time spent tinkering is time wasted.

If you're against the spam forum, which I see a few people are, then don't participate. Easy enough. I don't like Anime but that doesn't mean I am against a forum being there.

If you're worried about member behaviour becoming worse due to this, I say that this will actually improve attitudes as all the flaming and spam happens in one concentrated area, rather than people trying to derail decent threads in Misc and other forums.

[RedStarWarrior]

I'm willing to temporarily mod it for the first month (after which I think elections should be in order).

[shazza]

Name: Mt. Moon
- I propose that this be its starting name. In line with its theme as a silly forum, it could be changed every month or whenever as a joke.

Yeah, that sounds like an alright idea. It will always be Mt. Moon to my heart though.


Moderation: 2-3 Mods
I think 3 Mods should be picked to moderate it. Since there seems to be an attitude over there being too many mods, and since there ought to be experienced members handing this forum, they ought to be picked from the existing staff force. If need be, some can step down from their current positions if they feel they would only want to mod a single forum, especially one to be as likely as volatile as this one. At a later date, if a member shows himself/herself to be capable, he or she could be modded as well. Perhaps even democratically!

If it was from the existing staff force, then obviously it needs to be both moderators that approve of the forum and contribute in a humorous fashion.


1 Hour between Thread Creation: Just to stop people spamming crap threads and to encourage fresh, varied content. Works on other boards. Can be extended or removed after the board is created.

This is one hour between thread creation per individual, right?


I think the sooner we get it up and running, the better it will be. It's going to end up we're going to sit here arguing over minor details that can be edited very easily after it is created, so unless you have a very real pressing concern, I say we just go for it with this proposal. Too much time spent tinkering is time wasted.

If you're against the spam forum, which I see a few people are, then don't participate. Easy enough. I don't like Anime but that doesn't mean I am against a forum being there.

If you're worried about member behaviour becoming worse due to this, I say that this will actually improve attitudes as all the flaming and spam happens in one concentrated area, rather than people trying to derail decent threads in Misc and other forums.

Yeah bruz.

vB has capabilities of having individual layouts for different forums, right? Wait, what am I saying? The 2004 SPAM forum had a completely different layout.

But yeah, a different layout would be good.

[RedStarWarrior]

:spam:

I give you our forum's colors.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Our forums colour is delicious :0 But I don't know how I feel about it being visible by members only. I don't know why I feel off by that. I kinda think it should be viable. Nonmembers can't post anyway........

[RedStarWarrior]

Our forums colour is delicious :0 But I don't know how I feel about it being visible by members only. I don't know why I feel off by that. I kinda think it should be viable. Nonmembers can't post anyway........
We don't want trolls reading it and joining just for Mt. Moon. Let's have it be a perk of membership.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Okay! I know that's why it'll be hidden, we don't want trolls eating our goats and all...But...Could we like have somewhere on the forum that more is avalaible with membership? We wish to entice them, no?

[Zak]

How about aside from postcount seniority to be able to post in it, it also only becomes visible after a certain postcount?

[RedStarWarrior]

How about aside from postcount seniority to be able to post in it, it also only becomes visible after a certain postcount?
That is what I was hoping would be implemented.

[Clark]

It probably should be locked for anyone under like 2500 posts.

[Houndoom_Lover]

That's too many!!

[abunaidesu]

More like 666 posts.

[Heald]

over 9000? lol funnie jokez

[Bear]

More like 666 posts.

win

[woz]

I'm willing to temporarily mod it for the first month (after which I think elections should be in order).

lol

[Master Rudy]

Okay, I've read everyone's responses to ideas and everyone's suggestions, here is what I gather as a proposed consensus:

Name: Mt. Moon
- I propose that this be its starting name. In line with its theme as a silly forum, it could be changed every month or whenever as a joke.

I think this is the one thing we can all agree on right now.

Visibility: Members Only
Non-Members cannot even see the forum. Registered members can see the forum and view its contents.

Some people disagree on this front but I say keep it. It'll keep out people looking to join TPM for the purpose of starting trouble.

Posting Privileges: Application
People apply to the Admins to be allowed access to post in the forum, like the Web Contributors Forum. The general minimum requirement will be set with anyone falling underneath the requirement rejected, except in special circumstances. The minimum requirement ought to be that you have to have been a member for at least a month. You must all have accrued 100 posts.

However, while this is a minimum requirement, it is not a guarantee. If the mods in charge of the forum deem the member is not worthy, his application is rejected and he must wait a week to reapply.

These stipulations and how to apply will be put on the 'warning' page.

An app works in place of a rank lockout. And while I know the forum will be more laid back I do have to say this method will help keep certain controversial/problem members out. The application process could also keep the younger members (under 16?) out as well.

Warning Page: Yes
If we can, once clicking to enter the forum the warning page will be displayed before going any further, basically stating 'Beware! Adult content! etc' as well as stating how to apply for posting privileges, although whether this is feasible or not depends on the board technology.

Yeah this'll be an absolute must. A warning page shouldn't be too hard to add in.

Rules: The bare minimum
Basically, rules ought to be the bare minimum, basically to avoid the forums from getting into any legal trouble or gaining a reputation of being particularly vile. So, hardcore porn, illegal porn, full frontal nudity and posting any sort of illegal content (including links to torrents and the like) is strictly forbidden. Without this compromise, I doubt our proposal will be accepted.

There has been some discussion about if certain language should be banned, such as overtly racist language (e.g. the 'n-word'). Although I don't condone it, I think at least to begin with, apart from obviously illegal stuff as noted above, everything is fair game. If people start being idiots and just spamming certain racial slurs over and over, then they can be shunned (see Moderation below). If there is a consensus that certain language ought to be banned after the board's creation, then we can implement it later. I'm not saying this to defend certain language, but it cannot truly be no holds barred if there are certain banned words.

Furthermore, apart from posting illegal content, it should be that you cannot get infracted on this board.

I think I got you Heald. No full frontal nudity........HOWEVER YOU DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING AGAINST TOPLESS FEMALE NUDITY! :lol:
lol j/k
In all seriousness however this works out well. Language should not become an issue unless someone makes it an issue. Punishment could be a severe warning and a ban from that forum.

Moderation: 2-3 Mods
I think 3 Mods should be picked to moderate it. Since there seems to be an attitude over there being too many mods, and since there ought to be experienced members handing this forum, they ought to be picked from the existing staff force. If need be, some can step down from their current positions if they feel they would only want to mod a single forum, especially one to be as likely as volatile as this one. At a later date, if a member shows himself/herself to be capable, he or she could be modded as well. Perhaps even democratically!

Mods have a few duties: 1, they decide whose applications get approved (say like America's Got Talent, a majority of 2 to 1 means they are approved). 2, they delete illegal content, shit posts and choose what approved members get banned from the forum. 3, they decide if any threads are particularly funny and deserve to be archived. For this duty, obviously people can request a thread to be archived.

This works and goes hand in hand with the application process (see above).
As another possibility what about starting it with one existing mod and then electing the other two out of a group of responsible members who:
A-Are not currently mods
B-Have been approved for access to Mt. Moon
C-Are intrested in said job?

Other things:

Post Count Disabled: basically posts in Mt. Moon don't contribute to forum post count. This discourages shit posts, PC++ behaviour and other useless junk.

While I don't think post count is an issue overly much anymore I guess this could work out. Personally the more I think about it with the current proposed guidelines, the more I think leaving it on wouldn't hurt. However given the spammy nature of the proposed forum.....
Meh......I can see both sides of it. Can't really comment either way *shrug*

No Anonymity: People seem to overwhelmingly disagree with Anonymity, and so do I, so I guess that is no longer an issue.

Goes without saying.

1 Hour between Thread Creation: Just to stop people spamming crap threads and to encourage fresh, varied content. Works on other boards. Can be extended or removed after the board is created.

Good idea on that one. I assume this would not have any kind of effect on posting normally across TPM?

Max 30 threads: I say a maximum of 30 threads at once, at least to begin with. We can either increase or decrease this limit after the forum's creation if we need to, but I say 30 is a pretty good benchmark.

How would this be implemented? Would the board instantly lock out the ability to make new threads upon reaching 30, or would it fall on the mods of the forum to delete the oldest threads that are #31 and up?

Place on the Forum: This is undecided. I am firmly against it being a subforum of Misc, but I say to begin with it goes in between Interactive and Archives. It can be moved later if we need to.

Doesn't overly matter to me either way.
_____________

That's basically my proposal.

I think the sooner we get it up and running, the better it will be. It's going to end up we're going to sit here arguing over minor details that can be edited very easily after it is created, so unless you have a very real pressing concern, I say we just go for it with this proposal. Too much time spent tinkering is time wasted.

If you're against the spam forum, which I see a few people are, then don't participate. Easy enough. I don't like Anime but that doesn't mean I am against a forum being there.

If you're worried about member behaviour becoming worse due to this, I say that this will actually improve attitudes as all the flaming and spam happens in one concentrated area, rather than people trying to derail decent threads in Misc and other forums.

over 9000? lol funnie jokez

How original.......

All in all I think I hit all the points and proposals pretty well.

[shazza]

So if the majority of us are in accordance with both Mt. Moon and condensing the forums, what more is to be said? When will action occur?

[mr_pikachu]

I've only scanned the full proposal, but I would like to pose one caveat....


Furthermore, apart from posting illegal content, it should be that you cannot get infracted on this board.

While I agree that things like spamming, flaming, etc. shouldn't be infraction-worthy on the new board, I would argue that limiting infractions solely to illegal content might make the ability to deal with spambots a bit... unclear.

Since Miscellaneous already seems to be targeted by bots more than other forums, I'd like to propose that the only infractions to be dealt on the new forum be for illegal content and/or bot accounts. Just a minor tweak, but worth noting.

As for when it will happen... as soon as you ask the admins for permission, I suppose.

[Master Rudy]

As for when it will happen... as soon as you ask the admins for permission, I suppose.

Would I be right in assuming it's up and running then, only hidden? Last I looked I still didn't see it.

[mr_pikachu]

If it's up and running, it's news to me. I haven't noticed any changes to the forum layout. That would likely have to be done by the admins... hence the necessity of a request.

[shazza]

Oi, Kevin, Little_Pikachu, Chris or Lady Vulpix, get the fuckin fuck in here cuntz

[Gavin Luper]

There's a difference between fun spam and advertising.

If you don't know, then gtfo.

Chill, dude. You're a mod, remember. Although I don't see that difference either really, but that's actually not what I meant. I meant, how is it more important to protect Mt. Moon from spambots than the rest of the actual forum?

Either way, it's open now. I guess this thread has served its purpose?

[Lady Vulpix]

I've been checking this thread (as well as the other), but I was waiting for people to come to an agreement. The forum is up now. I've done as much as I could to customize it as required.

Forum features:
-Must be logged in to view it.
-Must be an approved Mt. Moon poster to post (mods, supermods and admins are automatically approved).
-Postcounts are disabled.
-An announcement is in place, and so is a sticky topic by Heald.
-20 members have already been approved. Others may apply to the mods for approval (which is not really hard to get).

I would like a non-mod to test it and see if s/he can post. That's the only thing I haven't been able to test yet.

[abunaidesu]

"the first 20 or so members that came to mind"

lol.

and you idiots wonder why the last "spam" forum died.

e; judging by the quality of the current posts, i can see mt. moon is going to last.

[Heald]

In all fairness, yours was the second one that came to mind.

[kainashi]

e; judging by the quality of the current posts, i can see mt. moon is going to last.post there then.

[Houndoom_Lover]

On this note, someone approve me, darnit. Not like I started the thread that help gave birth to it or anything, why should I be one of the twenty? :0

Edit: After just wasting ten mins in Fight Club, the private Mod forum, I have to say that this was my idea and...the negitivity with my named used in the same sentence. I'll remember that. No part of me ever wants to be a Mod...It's nice to see what you guys say about us with our backs turned.

[Blademaster]

Welcome to my world! :D

[kainashi]

On this note, someone approve me, darnit. Not like I started the thread that help gave birth to it or anything, why should I be one of the twenty? :0

Edit: After just wasting ten mins in Fight Club, the private Mod forum, I have to say that this was my idea and...the negitivity with my named used in the same sentence. I'll remember that. No part of me ever wants to be a Mod...It's nice to see what you guys say about us with our backs turned.it's private for a reason. ;)

[Houndoom_Lover]

Yeah, but I think I'm still allowed to be mildly upset. I didn't swear or rage or anything. I just felt bad. If at any moment you guys thought this was a mod hating flame thread, you could have just locked it down.

I thought....I don't know. I thought my friends had higher opionons of me. That I was well liked. Oh, I guess I'm not allowed in Mt. Moon anymore because I was upset?

I'm sorry. I just considered a few of those people my friends, is all. That's all...I'm sorry.

[Blademaster]

What the fuck I got booted out of the Mods' private asshole forum. OK, THAT I can understand. It is the Mods' private asshole forum, after all, but how the fuck did I get banned from MT. MOON? I've barely even posted there yet!

[kainashi]

i assume you guys will be allowed back in. suzie is probably messing around with forum settings because something caused the mod forum to be made public.

[Roy Karrde]

Hold on guys that was clearly a mistake I'll talk with who ever is incontrol of Mt Moon and get both of you back in.

[Jeff]

Suzie's trying to fix it as we speak. It seems to be having a side-effect on Mt. Moon.

[Houndoom_Lover]

:0 That's a weird glitch. Can we call it the Missin.No?

[mr_pikachu]

My sources say that Mt. Moon should be working again now. ;) Feel free to give it a test post!

[Houndoom_Lover]

Yeah. As of 5:02, you're wrong.

[mr_pikachu]

Thanks for the heads-up, HL. I'm letting Gabi know so she can continue to work on it.

[Houndoom_Lover]

You're welcome.

[Heald]

Okay, service update:

The forum has been fixed and people who have applied or were preemptively given pre-approval to post ought to be able to post in Mt. Moon now, if not now then in the next 10-15 minutes.

Thanks for being patient! :)

[Houndoom_Lover]

It is :0 It's alive! Woosh, I'm light headed.

Heald, your avatar is awesome. If I drank, I'd tattoo is on my belly. Since I don't, I'm just gonna get a Dark Mark on my arm. :0

[Lady Vulpix]

You should all be able to post now. I'm sorry about what happened. I made some wrong assumptions about the way usergroups worked. Suzie removed everyone from the group while I worked on fixing the problem, now everyone's been added again.

As for why this topic was not locked, it's because we felt something good could still come out of it, and also because you weren't actually breaking any rules. Everyone can voice their thoughts as long as they do it respectfully, without insulting or attacking others.

I think, all things considered, this topic is working for now.

Oh, and thanks for understanding, H_L.

[Houndoom_Lover]

^_^ Good. Because I thought it was going well too. Like, I never intended for it to sound whiny or anything. Its good for us to throw topics around.

Yay! :0 To Mt. Moon! I'm gunna catch me a Clefairy!

And you're welcome Lady V, you're very welcomed.

[shazza]

I don't understand what happened, as I just woke up. Team Meeting (or whatever it's called these days) was visible to the general public?

[abunaidesu]

I don't understand what happened, as I just woke up. Team Meeting (or whatever it's called these days) was visible to the general public?

Yes, for a short period of time. Its emergence happened due to the admins fiddling with some options.

[shazza]

Thank you for your prompt response, kiyone. Highly appreciated.

Cheers,
Shannon

[firepokemon]

Any juice? How'd I miss that? Very disappointed.

[Clark]

apparently houndoom_lover is a raging moron, and kiyone is really a tranny. other than that, nothing was happening.

[Blademaster]

I saw topics on how the Mods shit talk every member who isn't a perfect model member of TPM and how they occasionally hand out infractions strictly for the lulz.

[Greyfox]

Maybe they did that just because they knew you were coming to visit?

[Blademaster]

Yeah, no.

[Lady Vulpix]

I saw topics on how the Mods shit talk every member who isn't a perfect model member of TPM and how they occasionally hand out infractions strictly for the lulz.

I would like to clarify that because someone might take that literally. One mod gave someone a warning as a joke. I really don't get the joke, but he said the other person would understand it and I hope that's the case. It was not an infraction, so it has no effect whatsoever. And, as you may have noticed, all the other mods complained about it, so it's not something we usually do. It was a one-time thing, and I wouldn't like to see it happen again.

And Blade, it's no secret that you're not making any friends among the mod team. It's not like you're trying, are you? Everyone's actions have consequences. If you're constantly bashing someone, don't expect that person to like you. We could try to sort out the problem, but for some reason I feel that's not what you want. You seem to like conflict and enjoy using every chance to get to badmouth the mod team, so things are probably going to remain the same for a while.

[Master Rudy]

I would like to clarify that because someone might take that literally. One mod gave someone a warning as a joke. I really don't get the joke, but he said the other person would understand it and I hope that's the case. It was not an infraction, so it has no effect whatsoever. And, as you may have noticed, all the other mods complained about it, so it's not something we usually do. It was a one-time thing, and I wouldn't like to see it happen again.

And I just want to toss in that after my initial confusion over the matter that I thought it was funny as hell :lol:

But yeah......I can understand why you wouldn't want to try this again.. Do it to a person who's too serious and it has the potential to blow up into something big.

[RedStarWarrior]

And I just want to toss in that after my initial confusion over the matter that I thought it was funny as hell :lol:

But yeah......I can understand why you wouldn't want to try this again.. Do it to a person who's too serious and it has the potential to blow up into something big.
:love: ;)

[Houndoom_Lover]

Hey Clark, I'll gut you're family and then make you eat their organs. :3

I just think its low to talk about someone negitively when you've never even exchanged more then a few words. What gives you the right to form even an idea of the person?

But seriously Clark, you better not freakin' sleep tonight.

[RedStarWarrior]

Hey Clark, I'll gut you're family and then make you eat their organs. :3

I just think its low to talk about someone negitively when you've never even exchanged more then a few words. What gives you the right to form even an idea of the person?

But seriously Clark, you better not freakin' sleep tonight.
Can we keep the direct threats to a minimum? ...same goes for the spelling errors, please.

[Houndoom_Lover]

:0 I'll keep my threats to a minimum when we keep the insults to a minium. And no. When I have the time to proofread a post, I will. Until TPM gets a spellchecker, I'm going to use that half a min doing more productive things.

Like eating stuff.

[Greyfox]

If you're using Firefox, it has a built-in spellchecker. Use it.

[Blademaster]

And Blade, it's no secret that you're not making any friends among the mod team. It's not like you're trying, are you?

Yes, you're right. I'm totally not friends with Crystal Tears. Or DarkestLight. Or Heald. Or Crazy Elf Boy. Or mr_pikachu. Or MLG. Or any of the other people on this site that I'm on good terms with that happen to have bolded azure screennames.


Everyone's actions have consequences. If you're constantly bashing someone, don't expect that person to like you.

That goes both ways.


Also, this is off-topic. If you wish to call me out, please do so privately like you often reprimand others to.

[Clark]

its obvious the only mods worth mentioning are kainashi, mr e and pants :v
the others are just fillers.

[RedStarWarrior]

Go crawl back in your hole, Ace.

Let's keep the conversation constructive or else.

[Houndoom_Lover]

I don't have firefox. And even if I did, I wouldn't use it with that attitude, Sir.

And while we're on this, Mt. Moon is a screaming sucess :3 I'm very happy about that. What is the next item? Spell Check on TPM? Balls vs Blue? Forum Condensing? Archives combinding?

[abunaidesu]

Go crawl back in your hole, Ace.

Let's keep the conversation constructive or else.

He should crawl back into his hiatus.

[PancaKe]

Aw man, I don't come here for a week and I miss out on SO much.

[kainashi]

And while we're on this, Mt. Moon is a screaming sucess :3 I'm very happy about that. What is the next item? Spell Check on TPM? Balls vs Blue? Forum Condensing? Archives combinding?i think most, if not all, of the alternative browsers have one built in so we really don't need one here. i know for sure firefox and opera have one.

[DarkestLight]

[/color]

Yes, you're right. I'm totally not friends with Crystal Tears. Or DarkestLight. Or Heald. Or Crazy Elf Boy. Or mr_pikachu. Or MLG.

>> How come my name is second? Traitor ¬¬ Last time I'll ever give YOU any cookies.

[Jeff]

Chrome has one too. The only one I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't have one is (surprise, surprise) IE.

[Houndoom_Lover]

:0 Thems some impressive lists. But really:

As lnog as the lsat and frist letetr are crorcet, the biran can fiugre it out. :D

You sure did miss butches PancaKe!!

[Blademaster]

>> How come my name is second? Traitor ¬¬ Last time I'll ever give YOU any cookies.

Sorry dawg, but lesbian rape > cookies. Only barely, but it's enough.

[Houndoom_Lover]

-O- I have my eyes on you two, there'll be no lesbian rape on my clock.

[mr_pikachu]

*puts on authoritative Pika voice*

Right. Well then. Shall we get back to productive matters?


What is the next item? Spell Check on TPM? Balls vs Blue? Forum Condensing? Archives combinding?

Take your pick.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Hrhm, that's tough. Shall we go down the list?

Spellchecker in advanced format posting, maybe?

[chaos_redefined]

Other than a possible reference to blue balls, i can't see what is meant by "balls vs blue"

[Houndoom_Lover]

Moderatores with Blue colouration or Pokeballs? :0

[chaos_redefined]

ah. my meaning was much more interesting.

Well, what does each suggested change bring about? I mean, do people really get annoyed because the color of the mods name is different rather than having a bunch of pokeballs beneath their names? Do people care about the archives enough to warrant the combining of them? etc...

[Houndoom_Lover]

Not really, I don't think anyone cares. Its more styltilistic now. I guess in the long run, they're not as repulsive to look at when everyone is on at once ^_^

:0 But it is a nice colour of blue

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Blade, I'm last?:(

[Blademaster]

Of course. You're the rival. Rivals are the bottom of the pecking order, always. Except when I'm the rival. That's totally different by comparison.

[Master Rudy]

Rivals are the bottom of the pecking order, always.

So in other words your always on the bottom of everyone's list?

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

No, you should've read the whole post.

Also. My life has no meaning.

[RedStarWarrior]

CURRENT TOPIC: Pokéballs or Textual Differences for Heirarchy?

[PancaKe]

Bring back the pokeballs. but can we still keep our custom writing?

[RedStarWarrior]

Bring back the pokeballs. but can we still keep our custom writing?
Yes.

Take a look at N1CF's thing. She should have both a title block and a custom user title.