Condensing forums

[Telume]

Gavin Luper gave this suggestion in the Mods-to-Members ratio topic, and I do agree with him that some of the forums perhaps should be condensed.

Anyone got any suggestions

I for one think the archives should be taken out of public view. That the way it is in PTCO.

[Heald]

I for one think the archives should be taken out of public view. That the way it is in PTCO.
What is PTCO?

Anyway, I am not opposed to there being a visible archive. Even before I was a mod, I found it useful to go through the archives. It does actually contain some of the funnier threads in our history. However, all the archives ought to be put as sub-forums in one 'Archive' forum.

I think that all the Pokemon Game forums ought to be merged though, possibly with separate sub-forums for each generation, as well as both the Pokemon Anime forum and the Other Anime forum. TCG ought to be expanded to include all manners of non-video games (such as card games, board games, tabletop games, wargames etc.). Video games should remain itself though.

Thoughts?

[Gavin Luper]

Woot, a proper thread. Grouse!


What is PTCO?

Anyway, I am not opposed to there being a visible archive. Even before I was a mod, I found it useful to go through the archives. It does actually contain some of the funnier threads in our history. However, all the archives ought to be put as sub-forums in one 'Archive' forum.

I think that all the Pokemon Game forums ought to be merged though, possibly with separate sub-forums for each generation, as well as both the Pokemon Anime forum and the Other Anime forum. TCG ought to be expanded to include all manners of non-video games (such as card games, board games, tabletop games, wargames etc.). Video games should remain itself though.

Thoughts?

I definitely agree with the Archives being made one single forum with subforums.

The other suggestions seem promising, although I'll need to look at those forums a bit more before I can lend my two cents one way or the other. But I think the games section is definitely the main area in need of an overhaul.

[RedStarWarrior]

What is PTCO?

Anyway, I am not opposed to there being a visible archive. Even before I was a mod, I found it useful to go through the archives. It does actually contain some of the funnier threads in our history. However, all the archives ought to be put as sub-forums in one 'Archive' forum.

I think that all the Pokemon Game forums ought to be merged though, possibly with separate sub-forums for each generation, as well as both the Pokemon Anime forum and the Other Anime forum. TCG ought to be expanded to include all manners of non-video games (such as card games, board games, tabletop games, wargames etc.). Video games should remain itself though.

Thoughts?
Sounds good to me.

[Telume]

PTCO is a site I admin on, pokemon-trading-cards.net (also one of our affiliates.)

[Gavin Luper]

Okay, seeing how massively inactive some of the games forums are, I think combining them in some way would definitely be a very good idea, although the amount of existing forums and subforums makes it look like a complex task. Maybe the mods/frequent members of those forums could chat about what would work best?

I also agree that the two anime forums ought to be merged somehow.

[Telume]

I also think the Generation forums should be merged and just game it 1 big game's forum with subforums for each of the generations

[Houndoom_Lover]

Okay, how about this, the general Pokemon forum, and the anime and Pokemon games sorted into one section marked Pokemon. The General pokemon, anime, and games would then be subforms. <- That may be too much. I dunno...

Other anime and video games and....maybe something else should go there.... The Misc forum?

[Jeff]

I wouldn't merge all the pokemon-related forums considering were supposed to be, you know, a pokemon site.

I do think the games section needs to be restructured. Maybe have a forum for all "current" pokemon games (DP and after), and one for "classic" pokemon games. That would take care of everything including the games that would have been sorted into OPG. TCG needs to be expanded to include things like the trading figure game, and anything else like that, if there is anything else like that.

[Phoenixsong]

Why not lose the separate games subforums entirely and just keep them all under one heading? People should be titling threads descriptively enough to make finding a thread about a specific series or topic easy to find. I believe that vBulletin also makes it possible to create thread prefixes people can use--I don't know if it's a default feature or a plugin, but if it's default then an admin (possibly even mods--at one point I had the ability to create prefixes in a forum I modded, although I don't seem to be able to do so anymore so I'm not sure what that means) can create a few little tags that people can stick to their thread titles. Just select [RBY], [GSC], [RSEFRLG] or [DPPtHGSS] from the dropdown next to the title field and voila, there's no confusion as to which generation you're talking about and no need for so many subforums.

At the very least, I would think a division between mainstream games and spinoffs would be more than sufficient.

Whatever is done with the games forum/subforums, though, I do agree that it shouldn't be mashed together with everything else Pokémon-related. Games can and should still stand on its own as a separate entity from animé and all the rest.

The archives should remain visible--the purpose of the Fanfic Archives, for example, is to serve as a library for completed stories that people can browse through. Removing it from view completely defeats that purpose. Rather than combine them into one "Archives" forum, though, why not just turn each archive into a subforum of its respective forum? The ASB Archive is part of the ASB forum; why isn't the Fanfiction Archive part of Fanfic, or the Polls and Games archive part of PCG? I'm not sure where the main thread archive would go, and honestly the online battling archive could probably be hidden outright, but moving the archives I mentioned so that they're right by their respective forums would make things a lot neater.

[Houndoom_Lover]

:0 I know. It would be too much. It just be fatly convienent, though.

I agree that the TC section needs to expanded. It looks sad right now.

[Telume]

TC as in Trading Cards? How would you expand that section?

[kainashi]

into other trading card games/board games/etc. that MIGHT bring a bit more activity to it.

[Telume]

Well that's a given but I meant more like would we split them into like "Holos, American, Japanese... etc."

[RedStarWarrior]

into other trading card games/board games/etc. that MIGHT bring a bit more activity to it.
Basically, all none computer and console games, right?

[kainashi]

i suppose.


Well that's a given but I meant more like would we split them into like "Holos, American, Japanese... etc."i think that would be overkill. people could just put "[Holo]" or whatever in their topic name if that's what you mean.

[RedStarWarrior]

i think that would be overkill. people could just put "[Holo]" or whatever in their topic name if that's what you mean.
That would be a little fucking insane otherwise.

[Telume]

Yeah it is what I meant.

And I actually favor more the game forum getting merged into 1 and then having like
a Gen 1, 2, 3, 4 and Spin-off's subforum(s).

[RedStarWarrior]

Yeah it is what I meant.

And I actually favor more the game forum getting merged into 1 and then having like
a Gen 1, 2, 3, 4 and Spin-off's subforum(s).
I concur with that.

A general Pokémon games forum to discuss non-specific stuff and next gen games until they are released. Subforums for specific generations.

[kainashi]

that would get rid of some bloat and it's actually a good idea. ;)

[Telume]

We haven't heard any input from anyone else. So it's tough to say who's in favor of what.

Here's what I've gathered so far though:

1. Merge the games forums into 1 forum with sub-forums for each generation + 1 for a spin-off series
2. Merge the archives forums
3. Do Choice 2 but also remove them from public view? (My opinion.)

[RedStarWarrior]

We haven't heard any input from anyone else. So it's tough to say who's in favor of what.

Here's what I've gathered so far though:

1. Merge the games forums into 1 forum with sub-forums for each generation + 1 for a spin-off series
2. Merge the archives forums
3. Do Choice 2 but also remove them from public view? (My opinion.)
I actually do not like 2 or 3.

I'd rather have the Fanfic, RPG, and battling archives attached as subforums of their respective main forums. Polls can be put as a subforum of the Main Archive which can stay at the bottom. That will make the entire thing look a lot cleaner.

[Phoenixsong]

Why not lose the separate games subforums entirely and just keep them all under one heading? People should be titling threads descriptively enough to make finding a thread about a specific series or topic easy to find. I believe that vBulletin also makes it possible to create thread prefixes people can use--I don't know if it's a default feature or a plugin, but if it's default then an admin (possibly even mods--at one point I had the ability to create prefixes in a forum I modded, although I don't seem to be able to do so anymore so I'm not sure what that means) can create a few little tags that people can stick to their thread titles. Just select [RBY], [GSC], [RSEFRLG] or [DPPtHGSS] from the dropdown next to the title field and voila, there's no confusion as to which generation you're talking about and no need for so many subforums.

At the very least, I would think a division between mainstream games and spinoffs would be more than sufficient.

Whatever is done with the games forum/subforums, though, I do agree that it shouldn't be mashed together with everything else Pokémon-related. Games can and should still stand on its own as a separate entity from animé and all the rest.

The archives should remain visible--the purpose of the Fanfic Archives, for example, is to serve as a library for completed stories that people can browse through. Removing it from view completely defeats that purpose. Rather than combine them into one "Archives" forum, though, why not just turn each archive into a subforum of its respective forum? The ASB Archive is part of the ASB forum; why isn't the Fanfiction Archive part of Fanfic, or the Polls and Games archive part of PCG? I'm not sure where the main thread archive would go, and honestly the online battling archive could probably be hidden outright, but moving the archives I mentioned so that they're right by their respective forums would make things a lot neater.

...were these suggestions not noticed...?

[kainashi]

1. so a sub-forum for each generation then another for the other games (snap, stadium, etc.)? that sounds alright.

2. make it just one archive forum and then sub-forums pointing to rpgs, pbs, etc.?

3. what if someone wanted to browse through them for something? :( maybe add an option to turn them off? i, for one, never use them but i imagine other people may. i don't really mind them being displayed publicly but it could use some condensing if we want to clean up the main forums page.

[RedStarWarrior]

...were these suggestions not noticed...?
If you'll notice, I actually mentioned a variation of your archive suggestions.

Also, I dislike the prefix idea.

[mr_pikachu]

I get the sense that merging all the Pokemon game subforums into one would make the merged version unwieldy... people don't always title their threads descriptively enough to tell them apart, and demanding that as part of the rules doesn't seem worth it. It's an absolute necessity in PCG, and to be perfectly blunt, people sometimes get in trouble there just because they didn't know the rules well enough. I don't think willfully forcing the Pokemon games areas to follow that format is wise. If we want to combine them all into one main forum but retain separate subforums, then okay, I'll take that as a legitimate idea.

(Besides, a new fan interested in the fourth gen will likely see a bunch of threads with "[DPPtHGSS]" in the title and go, "What the shit is this?")

As for the archives, they really need to remain visible. Half the point of the Fanfic Archives is to highlight the works that were good enough to be completed -- I would argue that some of the best pieces in TPM's history are in the archive. We've also got a ton of E-zine issues there; again, that's appropriate so that people can still read those contributions, but they don't clog up the forum. The archives are important enough to remain visible, but they serves a key purpose as distinct units from their "parent" forums.

With that said, I'm fine with turning the various archives into subforums of their corresponding "parents." For the first several years in which I was on TPM, the Fanfic Archives were a subforum of Fanfic. I have no qualms about returning to that system. (Admittedly, the "Main Archive" will be hard to handle in this way... maybe that one could remain its own forum?)

[Phoenixsong]

You posted right before I did, RSW, so I didn't notice it, no.

Fair enough about the prefixes, then. I've seen it work, but if you all disagree then that's fine. In that case, the subforums in one main forum would be preferable--a layout along the lines of

Pokémon Video Games
-1st Gen, 2nd Gen, 3rd Gen, 4th Gen, Spin-Offs

or something.

And I thought I remembered the fanfic archive being under the fanfic section.

[Telume]

Okay some of those I can understand but, for example why keep the Battle Bot archive?

EDIT: Talking to mr_pikachu here.

[mr_pikachu]

That's a valid question. It holds no real significance to me, although it might be a source of nostalgia for some -- another reason the archives exist. If that's the case, we could always include it as a (locked) Pokemon Games subforum.

Perhaps someone who was more involved in the OPB forum can share their thoughts on it...?

[Mew Master]

You know, this is just my opinion, but I agree with HL about expanding TCG to included Other Table Top Games besides JUST Trading Cards.

How many of us are into d20 systems, Storyteller systems, Role Playing Games for Table Top, board games, stuff like that. I'd LOVE to see a forum category for table top games.

But again.. just my opinion.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Yeah, I'd love it if we expanded like that. And encouraged peopler to use that section more. Its ghost town like, if its expanded, lots more people will go to it, going "I play that game!"

[Telume]

Kinda like how I wished people used the chatroom more.

But anyway, as for merging. I DID amend my opinion to say that they should be merged and then have sub-forums for each Generation + Spin-off's

Again this is leveled at mr_pikachu.

[Houndoom_Lover]

I got into the chat room, its usually empty. I can't help that, I poke my head in. I'm a chatty person :0 I need people to talk with me constantly or I move on. The internet is a busy place. *goes to check the chat now*

[Heald]

Okay, I've seen all your ideas and here is a proposition as to what the forum layout MIGHT look like if we go ahead with merging/condensing/changing/outright removing:

The Pokemasters
- General Discussion
- Miscellaneous Stuff
- The Binary District (and associated subforums)
- Mt. Moon
Games
- Pokemon
- - Advanced Gen
- - Classic Gen
- Video Games
- Other Games
Anime
- Anime & Manga
- Anime Style Battling (and associated subforums)
FanWork
- FanFiction (and associated subforums)
- FanArt
Interactive
- Role Playing Game (and associated subforums)
- Polls, Clubs, Games (and associated subforums)
Archive
- Archive
- - Old Polls
- - FanFiction Archive
- - RPG Archive
_____________

At the moment, here are my proposed notes:

1) Mt. Moon, the placeholder name for any kind of 'spam forum' (should it ever come into existence), ought to be placed under The Pokemasters title. If not, then it should go right in between Interactive and Archive. I'll discuss my proposal for Mt. Moon further down in my post.

2) General Discussion COULD be moved to go under Pokemon, and we make Miscellaneous Stuff the main forum of the board. Considering how Misc is effectively the main forum anyway and GD is now one of the least active boards, Misc ought to have the top spot, although Austrian ViceMaster Alex may voice objections to this. More extremely, we could do away with GD altogether and have all Pokemon-based discussion that isn't to do with the anime in the proposed 'Pokemon' forum above. Furthermore, if Misc is to become the main forum, it COULD be renamed, however, because it is so integral to TPM's history, I think it should remain named Misc for memory's sake.

3) The Pokemon forum. Have the Advanced and Classic Gens as subforums. ANY OTHER POKEMON GAME DISCUSSION such as Ranger, Mystery Dungeon etc occurs in the main part of the forum. If my proposal to merge GD with Pokemon, then anything that would normally go in GD would go in the main forum too.

4) Other Games. Name pending, this is an expansion of TCG to include all card games as well as board games, tabletop games, war games, Dungeons and Dragons, Warhammer, D20 system etc.

5) Anime & Manga. All anime/manga related discussion occurs in this forum, whether it is Pokemon related or not. If need be, we could distinguish what Anime the discussion is about by asking people to tag their thread titles, maybe giving each important anime its own tag e.g. PKM = Pokemon, YGO = Yu-Gi-Oh, NRO = Naruto etc. If people don't tag discussions that ought to be tagged, this could be a job for the mod.

6) Archive. I am against removing or making this invisible (unless it could be easily accessed by all members). However, I am in favour of making the Main Archive the sole archive, and then the 3 subforums are for more specific archives, the Polls, RPGs and Fanfics. OPG is completely unnecessary so either delete it or just merge it in with the Main Archive.
_______________

Now, some proposed ideas not involving the forum layout:

7) Mods. Obviously, this proposal will require some mods to either join other mods. I am not proposing to put any mod out of a job. If, for example, GD does merge with Pokemon, Alex would just move to be mod of that forum as well.

However, two forums remain unmodded. TCG has no mod, and Dark-San has be inactive and stated his intention that he is going to leave, so Anime needs a mod too. Given these proposals, TML, mod of Pokemon Anime, can simply become mod of the consolidated Anime forum, if she wishes, although if she wants a second mod, it can be considered. Furthermore, the proposed Other Games forum will remain modless. Due to my interest in this area, I can mod this forum myself, either on a long-term basis or until a suitable candidate rears his/her head.

8) I am against sending the specific forum archives back to their forums e.g. making RPG Archive a subforum of RPG. It clutters the place up, especially since Archives, by their very nature, see no activity whatsoever. Better to keep all the archives in one place.

9) On the subject of archives, I am thinking of making a thread in Misc and stickying it and calling it the Archive Request. Basically, members can request a thread to be archived and state their case (such as particularly historic, memorable, or funny). A mod can then make the move to immortalise it.

10) Mt. Moon. Thanks to shazza for this proposed name, which I like very much. Basically, this would be what some would call a 'spam' forum, but I'd like to think it'd be something different. A lot of forums have an area like this. It isn't necessarily for spam, in fact, I'd like to think people have better things to do than write random stuff and post it on a forum. It'd basically be a place for silly, low-quality posts that could hopefully be quite funny and divert a lot of the bored idiots away from Misc.

Now there are some proposals about such a place. Here are a few, with their pros and cons:

- Posts don't contribute to post count
-- Con: No one cares about post counts.
-- Pro: Some people do and if posts here do contribute to post count, it might perpetuate such an attitude.
- Forced anonymity
-- Con: People will just flame and insult who they want.
-- Pro: People are going to do that anyway, therefore forcing anonymity will mean hard feelings on this board won't overflow onto the main board.
-- Con: Not sure if this is even technically possible with the board technology.
-- Con: People claiming to be other people.
- The only rule is that there are no rules
-- Con: Will perpetuate flames and such.
-- Pro: No one will whine about breaking rules in a seemingly lawless forum.
- Making it 'invitation-only'
-- Pro: Will stop people signing up just to take part in a pointless forum.
-- Con: Seems a bit elitist.
- Move all spambot threads here
-- Pro: Some spambot threads are particularly funny.
-- Con: Why?
- Maximum 10-20 threads
-- Pro: Encourages fresh content.
-- Pro: Crap threads will be deleted quickly.
-- Pro: Harmful comments won't be archived.
-- Con: Funny threads might be deleted.
-- Pro: Funny threads can be archived if need be.
_________

Forced Anon, I'm 50-50 about. If it is even possible, I say at least experiment with it at first. If it sucks, then we just turn off Forced Anon.

Invitation-Only. I say that you have to have made 100 posts to earn the privilege of posting in Mt. Moon, at which point you apply to the Admins to let you in. That way it will give regular new members something to strive to. It will at least encourage new members to stick around. A lot of forums have a forum that can only be used by members with a certain (but quite low, easily attainable by anyone active for a week or two weeks or so) threshold of posts, and it does work.

Setting a maximum number of threads, as I said, ensures fresh content. The 10 or 20 or whatever top threads will be the only ones viewable. When a new thread is created, the last placed thread is automatically deleted. Hopefully this will create a 'game' atmosphere where people can try and keep their threads alive the longest. To deter people just spamming threads, we could implement a minimum wait time between creating new threads, such as an hour.

No rules. Apart from the obvious (such as posting pornography, racism, blatant law-breaking, linking to torrents etc), no holds barred. That way everyone is on a level pegging. There will be at least a moderator (probably 2 or 3 since it will hopefully be as active as Misc) who can withdraw the privilege of posting there if need be, such as if you post illegal stuff.

Otherwise, that's all I've got so far. Comments and criticism appreciated.

[RedStarWarrior]

<insert what you said>
That looks great, except that Classic Generation should be listed above Advanced Generation. Plus, we have more than just two generations of Pokémon games to contend with. I'd recommend naming the forums after the games...RBYGSC, etc. I still believe the FanFiction Archive belongs as a subforum of FanFic because it is supposed to be a library of all completed stories.

[Knight of Time]

All these ideas look interesting, but I have a question.

Would it be possible for a sub-forum of a forum to have it's own sub-forum (e.g. Pokemon Games > Advanced Generation > Diamond/Pearl/Platinum), like making it a "sub-sub-forum" in a way?

Just to make certain areas within one large particular area easier to find, that's all.

[Master Rudy]

Hmm.....all sounds good to me Heald. You managed to come up with a pretty good reorganizing of the board. Plus you even addressed the issue of mods possibly losing their spots in the event that their board gets canned or combined. I do happen to like the expansion of TCG to include all tabletop games. In the past a few people did happen to use it for YGO and the DBZ CCG but that obviously did not last very long. Once you toss all tabletop games into the mix I think it helps things out quite a bit.

As a suggestion as far as condensing the forums go would there be any chance of allowing people to start topics in the Other Games forum for the purpose of traditional role playing? We've obviously got the RPG forum but that's more for helping to write a story from the POV of your own character. By traditional role playing I mean actually letting people create topics for the purpose of doing D&D, Star Wars, d20, GURPS, Vampire, ect right on TPM. Obviously there would need to be rules in place and quite a bit would need to be worked out. One possible option could be maybe RPing on AIM/MSN and then posting the log for that night on TPM. It may be something to consider if TCG is going to become a catch all for all tabletop games. It's actually got some really good potential to even draw people to TPM ^_~

[Mew Master]

1) Mt. Moon, the placeholder name for any kind of 'spam forum' (should it ever come into existence), ought to be placed under The Pokemasters title. If not, then it should go right in between Interactive and Archive. I'll discuss my proposal for Mt. Moon further down in my post.

Just an opinion, but I always thought Rock Tunnel was more annoying than Mt Moon.


4) Other Games. Name pending, this is an expansion of TCG to include all card games as well as board games, tabletop games, war games, Dungeons and Dragons, Warhammer, D20 system etc.

Looks good, however might I suggest instead of Other Games it be changed to Table Top Games. Since in the gaming community this is what it usually breaks down into. Video and Table Top (And of course Table Top includes cards, War Hammer, D&D, ect). It breaks down even further (Cards, Role Playing Games, ect) but the bigger category stays the same.


However, two forums remain unmodded. TCG has no mod, and Dark-San has be inactive and stated his intention that he is going to leave, so Anime needs a mod too. Given these proposals, TML, mod of Pokemon Anime, can simply become mod of the consolidated Anime forum, if she wishes, although if she wants a second mod, it can be considered. Furthermore, the proposed Other Games forum will remain modless. Due to my interest in this area, I can mod this forum myself, either on a long-term basis or until a suitable candidate rears his/her head.

I'd be up for having some sort of consideration for new mods for "Other Games" preferably people who have played and or do play many other Table Top games besides Yu-Gi-Oh and Magic (has played and plays several myself).

[shazza]

I apologise if I don't make sense. It's 2.25am and I am remarkably tired.



The Pokemasters
- General Discussion
- Miscellaneous Stuff
- The Binary District (and associated subforums)
- Mt. Moon
Games
- Pokemon
- - Advanced Gen
- - Classic Gen
- Video Games
- Other Games
Anime
- Anime & Manga
- Anime Style Battling (and associated subforums)
FanWork
- FanFiction (and associated subforums)
- FanArt
Interactive
- Role Playing Game (and associated subforums)
- Polls, Clubs, Games (and associated subforums)
Archive
- Archive
- - Old Polls
- - FanFiction Archive
- - RPG Archive
_____________

That looks very good to me.


2) General Discussion COULD be moved to go under Pokemon, and we make Miscellaneous Stuff the main forum of the board. Considering how Misc is effectively the main forum anyway and GD is now one of the least active boards, Misc ought to have the top spot, although Austrian ViceMaster Alex may voice objections to this. More extremely, we could do away with GD altogether and have all Pokemon-based discussion that isn't to do with the anime in the proposed 'Pokemon' forum above. Furthermore, if Misc is to become the main forum, it COULD be renamed, however, because it is so integral to TPM's history, I think it should remain named Misc for memory's sake.

I think the order of the forums are trivial. If Misc became the top spot (which I think shouldn't be renamed, although it does seem weird having Misc at the top) then I don't see why Austrian ViceMaster Alex would disapprove. But, I think General Discussion would be best suited for general theories and discussions about Pokemon, whereas 'Pokemon' is more designed for games. General Discussion, is in a sense, the misc for Pokemon.


4) Other Games. Name pending, this is an expansion of TCG to include all card games as well as board games, tabletop games, war games, Dungeons and Dragons, Warhammer, D20 system etc.

Yep, sounds good. In the description, just make sure to mention a few examples as above.


6) Archive. I am against removing or making this invisible (unless it could be easily accessed by all members). However, I am in favour of making the Main Archive the sole archive, and then the 3 subforums are for more specific archives, the Polls, RPGs and Fanfics. OPG is completely unnecessary so either delete it or just merge it in with the Main Archive.

Agreed completely.

9) On the subject of archives, I am thinking of making a thread in Misc and stickying it and calling it the Archive Request. Basically, members can request a thread to be archived and state their case (such as particularly historic, memorable, or funny). A mod can then make the move to immortalise it.


10) Mt. Moon. Thanks to shazza for this proposed name, which I like very much. Basically, this would be what some would call a 'spam' forum, but I'd like to think it'd be something different. A lot of forums have an area like this. It isn't necessarily for spam, in fact, I'd like to think people have better things to do than write random stuff and post it on a forum. It'd basically be a place for silly, low-quality posts that could hopefully be quite funny and divert a lot of the bored idiots away from Misc.

If SPAM is simply defined by posts that are like "sdfsfdgdfgdgd" then I don't want Mt. Moon to be a SPAM forum either. It can be humorous, light hearted, immature and a place that is unregulated from the confines of normal TPM. Very similar to the secret forum of 2004.


- Posts don't contribute to post count
-- Con: No one cares about post counts.
-- Pro: Some people do and if posts here do contribute to post count, it might perpetuate such an attitude.

The forum would infuriate members and staff too much that peoples low quality posts are increasing their postcount. In fact, the posts contributed in Mt. Moon should not be looked upon as posts for TPM, as I have said previously, it should be somewhat separate from the regular operations of TPM - that includes posts.


- Forced anonymity
-- Con: People will just flame and insult who they want.
-- Pro: People are going to do that anyway, therefore forcing anonymity will mean hard feelings on this board won't overflow onto the main board.
-- Con: Not sure if this is even technically possible with the board technology.
-- Con: People claiming to be other people.

I don't like the idea at all, if you want to be anonymous go to an imageboard. The part of this community is that we all know each other, and I would like to partake in low quality posts with people that I know. Anonymity will result in the board losing its appeal very quickly.


- The only rule is that there are no rules
-- Con: Will perpetuate flames and such.
-- Pro: No one will whine about breaking rules in a seemingly lawless forum.

The part of the appeal of Mt. Moon is that you are stepping into a warzone. If you wish not to partake, as I'm sure there might be a couple of members that don't, then they do not need to.

I also think when clicking on it, a warning message of what is about to entail should be included. A brief summary that there is no holds barred, posts aren't counted and that it is quite different from the rest of TPM.


- Making it 'invitation-only'
-- Pro: Will stop people signing up just to take part in a pointless forum.
-- Con: Seems a bit elitist.

Although I enjoyed the elitist aspect of the SPAM forum of 2004, I think now that the cat is out of the bag, we all need to be part of it. If someones post is deemed shit, we can just troll and flame them.

If people sign up and only post in the pointless forum, it should be messaged by a moderator and like "Yo brah, we appreciate if you could not just confine your posts to Mt. Moon. I know that Clefairy and Jigglypuff are appealing, but you gotta get off that shit bruz."

I think I read somewhere else (I'm very tired) that you need a certain limit of posts to post, I think that's a pretty worthwhile idea if applicable.


- Move all spambot threads here
-- Pro: Some spambot threads are particularly funny.
-- Con: Why?

Why have spambots there when we are spamhumans?


- Maximum 10-20 threads
-- Pro: Encourages fresh content.
-- Pro: Crap threads will be deleted quickly.
-- Pro: Harmful comments won't be archived.
-- Con: Funny threads might be deleted.
-- Pro: Funny threads can be archived if need be.

Seems like an alright idea, but I think the frequency of thread creation will be pretty high compared to others, so perhaps make it a limit of 100?


Invitation-Only. I say that you have to have made 100 posts to earn the privilege of posting in Mt. Moon, at which point you apply to the Admins to let you in. That way it will give regular new members something to strive to. It will at least encourage new members to stick around. A lot of forums have a forum that can only be used by members with a certain (but quite low, easily attainable by anyone active for a week or two weeks or so) threshold of posts, and it does work.

Oh, this is where you said it. I think that's a very good idea. If a new member seems to be making some pretty half-assed posts just to get into the new forum - although I don't see it occurring very often - then admins can quite easily reject the request.


Setting a maximum number of threads, as I said, ensures fresh content. The 10 or 20 or whatever top threads will be the only ones viewable. When a new thread is created, the last placed thread is automatically deleted. Hopefully this will create a 'game' atmosphere where people can try and keep their threads alive the longest. To deter people just spamming threads, we could implement a minimum wait time between creating new threads, such as an hour.

I like the idea, but perhaps 50 would be better. As I said, the rate of thread creations will most likely be considerably higher than most forums.


No rules. Apart from the obvious (such as posting pornography, racism, blatant law-breaking, linking to torrents etc), no holds barred. That way everyone is on a level pegging. There will be at least a moderator (probably 2 or 3 since it will hopefully be as active as Misc) who can withdraw the privilege of posting there if need be, such as if you post illegal stuff.

I think the forum would require 2-3 mods that are pretty knowledgeable in posting this kind of stuff. It's like: let's award the previous troublemakers and those that have been banned by modding them in the new forum, because they know this kind of stuff hurhurhur. ^_^

I'm just pleased that people here are starting to take this idea seriously. It would be very interesting to hear from Lady Vulpix or Little_Pikachu - or even Chris The Master or PokeMaster Kevin. :lol:


Just an opinion, but I always thought Rock Tunnel was more annoying than Mt Moon.

Exactly right. Rock Tunnel makes me seem uneasy and nervous. Mt. Moon reminds me of a magical environment where the rules differ to the rest of Kanto/the world/TPM; perhaps it is the music, perhaps it is the moon stones or the aspect it reminds me of space. I'll use this metaphor: TPM is the Earth, Mt. Moon is the moon; the moon is nearby the Earth, smaller and orbiting it, but it is outside the usual rules, regulations and structure of Earth's society. It is uninhibited and free.

[kainashi]

all of heald's ideas look/sound good but i'm against moving/getting rid of general discussion. even though it isn't that active and misc stuff is by far the main forum of the board, it's still a pokemon forum, and that should be the main focus i think.

i also prefer rock tunnel to mt. moon if we're going to make a spam forum. fits better i think. :)

[Mew Master]

As a suggestion as far as condensing the forums go would there be any chance of allowing people to start topics in the Other Games forum for the purpose of traditional role playing? We've obviously got the RPG forum but that's more for helping to write a story from the POV of your own character. By traditional role playing I mean actually letting people create topics for the purpose of doing D&D, Star Wars, d20, GURPS, Vampire, ect right on TPM. Obviously there would need to be rules in place and quite a bit would need to be worked out. One possible option could be maybe RPing on AIM/MSN and then posting the log for that night on TPM. It may be something to consider if TCG is going to become a catch all for all tabletop games. It's actually got some really good potential to even draw people to TPM ^_~

Take some advice from someone who ran a Play-By-Post RPG on another Forum, Rudy.

In order to even CONCEIVE of such a thing, my suggestion would be to make several separate forums for each game. To make it legible you would need an entire topic for Characters, Place and setting, and then the RPG itself. Within this RPG you'll need a DM, as well as characters and a normal session of play could take... three to four months, and a forum for usual OOC bullshite.

You're also dealing with the availability of books. If a player doesn't have the book, then they miss out on the flavor of it and maybe part of the character creation. Granted, books aren't that scarce on the Internet, but there are still the legal implications of just handing out 30-40 dollar books for free.

I'm not saying your idea isn't BAD. It just adds complications to the matter of the board and really takes over what TPM RPG is essentially, even in Table Top. This, however, is if you run a game ON the board itself.

Now, if you run your own game on say... MSN/Yahoo/Skype. I think you could make that part of the board where you come in and post a record, or log. Or even better, a summary of what your troupe has accomplished, the challenges they've faced, and even greater challenges ahead. I did this as an afternote with my group for a couple of years.

And if you want to go the DM mastering route, there could be several topics dedicated to helping DMs, STs and general Game Masters with running of their games, ideas, rules clarifications, and such. Which wouldn't be a bad idea really.

[Master Rudy]

I also think when clicking on it, a warning message of what is about to entail should be included. A brief summary that there is no holds barred, posts aren't counted and that it is quite different from the rest of TPM.

Agreed.....in addition to the warning perhaps add a lockout if the member trying to get into that board is under 18. Granted people can lie about their age. However we do need to remember that first and foremost this IS a Pokémon website. Even without porn, ect those kinds of boards can get pretty raunchy at times. Last thing we need is a board where people can go all out and post the things they wouldn't normally dream of on TPM, only to have little Timmy or Suzie's mom or dad go nuts and demand to rip apart whoever is in charge. I don't think Gabi and....uh....well Suzie (:heh:) need to deal with that sort of thing.

[shazza]

i also prefer rock tunnel to mt. moon if we're going to make a spam forum. fits better i think. :)

I can see how Rock Tunnel could fit, but along with my metaphor, it just seems dull and dark, full of uneasy cluster.

[Mew Master]

I can see how Rock Tunnel could fit, but along with my metaphor, it just seems dull and dark, full of uneasy cluster.

That and it makes you waste a move-slot/Pokemon JUST for a single move to navigate in, is one of the more annoying dungeons in the game, filled with random encounters and battles that could leave you hours to get through without Flash.

In essence, what a Spam Board should be. Annoying and eating up hours of your time. XD

[RedStarWarrior]

As far as games like D&D, they should go in Other Games, imo.

[Mew Master]

As far as games like D&D, they should go in Other Games, imo.

Agreed, and I just had an afterthought after posting my response to Rudy.

You can run your game in RPG, since that's what the board is for. Hell maybe even members from RPG would like to get involved as well. However there is also setting up the game so that it's similar enough TO the Table Top, that still allows a degree of freedom and expression found in RPG.

Just another consideration.

[RedStarWarrior]

Agreed, and I just had an afterthought after posting my response to Rudy.

You can run your game in RPG, since that's what the board is for. Hell maybe even members from RPG would like to get involved as well. However there is also setting up the game so that it's similar enough TO the Table Top, that still allows a degree of freedom and expression found in RPG.

Just another consideration.
If it came down to it, I'd rather create a subforum of RPG for D&D-esque games and stuff like LARP. Of course, RPG could always be made a subforum of Other Games.

[Master Rudy]

Well I figured the idea regarding tabletop RPG's would be at least worth tossing into the mix. The few times something of that nature has even been tried in the actual RPG forum it's never seemed to work out to my knowledge. I'll be the first to say that doing it online would pose some unique challenges. The most notable one would of course be the issue of the books. Most likely it'll fall upon the mods of that new forum and perhaps a few select members as well to come up with guidelines for how it could work, what to do, ect.

Card games are much easier to do in this sort of fashion. Back when Frank was still around I use to play the DBZ/GT CCG from 2000-05 online with him via MSN. Doing so without a webcam or mics is extremely time consuming however. In the case of cards that were along the lines of "search your opponent's life deck for X cards and discard them" we'd usually have to adapt the rules to be more along the lines of "discard the top or bottom X cards from your opponent's life deck." In cases of them getting to look at the top X for a paticular card type to remove we'd more oftern go the route of looking ourself, naming the cards/types and then after they make their pick reshuffle the deck. Needless to say it was all extremely time consuming. Plus this style of online play required a big amount of trust.

I guess what I'm saying is that if we could adapt a card game for online play then we can do it for tabletop RPG's. Once again it provides a unique set of challenges. However with time and effort you can solve nearly anything ^_~

[Mew Master]

If it came down to it, I'd rather create a subforum of RPG for D&D-esque games and stuff like LARP. Of course, RPG could always be made a subforum of Other Games.

I disagree on both counts.

1) Why create a sub forum for running a game when our current RPG Board is basically the same thing?
2) I think RPG has done it's fair share in the last several years to earn it's spot as a separate Forum with it's own unique creative drive.


I guess what I'm saying is that if we could adapt a card game for online play then we can do it for tabletop RPG's. Once again it provides a unique set of challenges. However with time and effort you can solve nearly anything ^_~

While this is very true, there are also some differences between a Card Game and a Table Top RPG. A Card Game has very specific rules on where cards are placed, what takes effect first and such. A TT RPG, however, is a bit more free flowing from my experience and rules can be broken. I've suggested running a game on Skype for a few ppl that showed interest in one of the games I like, so that's a possibility, which I think is better.

[mr_pikachu]

Okay, a couple of quick responses coming....

Heald: The proposal looks good; no complaints here.


But anyway, as for merging. I DID amend my opinion to say that they should be merged and then have sub-forums for each Generation + Spin-off's

Again this is leveled at mr_pikachu.

I'm not sure why things are being "leveled at" me, but okay. ^_^; See the following quotation.


If we want to combine them all into one main forum but retain separate subforums, then okay, I'll take that as a legitimate idea.

[Austrian ViceMaster Alex]

On the positive side for condensing forums I see ... nothing - except maybe faked increased activity.

On the negative side I see 1) work as the change isn't happening by itself, 2) less clearly arranged forums.

So I'm for not changing anything. It's not hurting anyone that some sub-forums aren't that active.

[shazza]

I had a dream about Mt. Moon last night, although it was inaccurately called "The Mount Moon"! There were already about 2,000 threads, shit was exciting, and my real life friends (with Facebook picture profiles) also posting on it. Many people had threads saying another members username.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Only snap! Shazza had a pysic dream, I demand we start this up now!

And I like the idea of expanding the RPG board into Tabletop stuff too...:0

[RedStarWarrior]

I disagree on both counts.

1) Why create a sub forum for running a game when our current RPG Board is basically the same thing?
One is online only, the other has a physical manifestation.

[Lady Vulpix]

I think merging the pokemon games into one forum and having subforums for each generation may be a good idea.

I personally don't like the idea of Mt. Moon. I've seem something like that work in one forum, but members were mature enough to be silly without being stupid or offensive. Sadly, here on TPM there are a few members who will take any opportunity to attack others and I'm afraid such a forum would only encourage them, and then some of the members who are the targets of their attacks will get upset. Worst case scenario, we get a lot of SPAM and flames, new trolls join the forum and good members leave. Best case scenario, we get a bunch of silly, laughable threads which probably don't need a forum of their own (the "Aunt Flow visits shazza" thread was an example, we can have a thread like that every now and then without making a dedicated forum).

If people decide that we really need such a forum, then I'd rather have it postcount-free and open to everyone. That way we wouldn't be inviting people to SPAM just to make a silly little number get bigger (if they really need to make useless posts, at least let them come up with their own reasons).

As for turning the archives into subforums or leaving them as they are, I don't care either way. I am, however, against making them invisible. The archives are there so that people can read them and search through them. Those who don't want to see them should be able to ignore them.

[Houndoom_Lover]

I don't think anyone will get huffy and leave because of a chat forum. If they stuck around through all the other crap, they'll stick around for this.

I've seen chat forums in every board :0 But this one. It's a good idea to have somewhere were people post and just let them be. Of course, we will hafta disable post count there...Not that anyone gives a damn about postcount :0

[shazza]

I personally don't like the idea of Mt. Moon. I've seem something like that work in one forum, but members were mature enough to be silly without being stupid or offensive. Sadly, here on TPM there are a few members who will take any opportunity to attack others and I'm afraid such a forum would only encourage them, and then some of the members who are the targets of their attacks will get upset. Worst case scenario, we get a lot of SPAM and flames, new trolls join the forum and good members leave. Best case scenario, we get a bunch of silly, laughable threads which probably don't need a forum of their own (the "Aunt Flow visits shazza" thread was an example, we can have a thread like that every now and then without making a dedicated forum).

While I won't deny that some pointless flamewars and trolling will occur, I think the main premise of the forum is to be light-hearted, exempt from the rules and regularities of TPM. If someone repeatedly trolls someone that isn't adding towards humor and is just becoming repetitive, rest assured that I, and I'm sure others, will troll them for being a jukebox. If what I envision, and indeed dream about - a forum full of light heartedness and no holds barred - is just only centered towards attacking members, then I guess we could regulate saying not to do it so frequently that it becomes bland and stale, consequently destroying the potential that it truly has.

In regards to your worst case scenario: I sincerely doubt dedicated members, members that have stayed here for number of years, are going to leave the entire forum because they faced some e-insults in a forum that they knew that nothing is off limits. Moreover, I don't particularly see people joining this forum because of like "hey, it has a SPAM/troll forum! I'm just going to join because of that, and not because of Pokemon at all." New members SHOULD be joining because of their interest to Pokemon (as we have seen in recent months); it's really only the old veterans that stay around that have no interest - although I'm sure most of us still have a nostalgic fascination with the pokemanz.

And as for the best case scenario: those kind of threads, such as 'Aunt Flow visits shazza' and 'The One Year Topic' are more like general chit chat threads. And while I approve of such threads - which once would have been locked during 2003-2006 - there are these threads that can go into more specific, less detailed and perhaps even more silly. I also foresee some being a bit mature for a Pokemon forum, thus why I suggested the warning when clicking on it.



If people decide that we really need such a forum, then I'd rather have it postcount-free and open to everyone. That way we wouldn't be inviting people to SPAM just to make a silly little number get bigger (if they really need to make useless posts, at least let them come up with their own reasons).
I agree whole heartedly with that. Although if there were a limit of say 100 posts to participate, it would ultimately be upto the jurisdiction of the powers that be whether they are deemed worthy. Hence, 100 posts is not an automatic guarantee to be able to post in Mt. Moon, rather just a possibility to be considered - nothing would be certain. In theory, this could actually promote new members to be more active AND with quality and worthwhile posts, knowing that if they want to spout total bullshit, they better prove that they are also capable of providing quality.

Can you just imagine it, Gabi, where there is a thread like "ITT we act like when we first joined TPM" and begin acting like morons, talking to each other humorously - a good active way to be nostalgic. Although, you have basically remained the same throughout your tenure! Or how about even usual private, taboo topics such as "when did you first get laid?" or "when was the last time you had a fuck?". Or just a thread to chat, get members attention - the possibilities are endless. Thus, having postcount on would be stupid, as not only will posts go up considerably, but I look at the postcounts being the posts of TPM - this is something a tad separate, but containing the normal members of TPM. That is also why I think a separate layout for it, like the 2004 SPAM forum, would be ideal.

Also, having 2 or 3 moderators, since there are no rules, they don't moderate based on what rules they are breaking, they basically moderate on what they observe as quality and not quality. So if there are truly unhumorous, pointless flamewars going on, the moderator at hand can call them all "faggots" and close the thread. Perhaps this is an abuse of power on the moderators behalf, but this being Mt. Moon and all, the moderator is also not subject to normal rules.

[RedStarWarrior]

Also, having 2 or 3 moderators, since there are no rules, they don't moderate based on what rules they are breaking, they basically moderate on what they observe as quality and not quality. So if there are truly unhumorous, pointless flamewars going on, the moderator at hand can call them all "faggots" and close the thread. Perhaps this is an abuse of power on the moderators behalf, but this being Mt. Moon and all, the moderator is also not subject to normal rules.
I love you.

[shazza]

It's sort've more like how TPM used to be moderated back in the early years, with admins such as Dodrio and kurai and the like. I think firepokemon has argued time and time again for "less rules; more observational moderating."

I'm going to bed. But seriously, with the exception of minute subforums and archives, TPM hasn't had a radical forum change, since what, Shipping in 2001? If some of you really want TPM to pick up activity, then you may need to keep up to date with the times. And most boards these days have such a forum where shit like this happens, and members enjoy it and feel liberated rather than constricted. It's a win-win for both. If it truly fails, whether it's lack of activity, too much flamewars, whatever, then there is an 'undo' button as well as a 'do' button - it's the internet, it can easily be erased and nothing is permanent. Some of you are making it out to be if this is to go ahead, that there is no erasing it. Sometimes you need to try bold and new things; if it fails, then revert back - easy peasy. Although it's nostalgic, TPM seldom imposes any major change, and that could be one of the hindrances in increasing activity.

They say change can be scary, but it's also the next best thing to a holiday. I've noticed that the later years when TPM is most active, it's when we witness change and thus a breath of fresh air: cherished old members return, Lady Vulpix is promoted, the site is launched, Pokemon is entering a new generation etc etc etc.

goodnite ^^

[Lady Vulpix]

Although, you have basically remained the same throughout your tenure!Thanks for noticing. :keke:

[shazza]

I'm an observable kind of dude. :)

Also, just an idea before I go to bed: I think it would be pretty funny if the forum was called Mt. Moon, but there was a sub-forum called Rock Tunnel, which has no differences besides its name, which can be used as some sort of light-hearted rivalry between the two. But this is just an idea, hrhrhrhr. Sort've like a certain Robot9000.

[Mew Master]

One is online only, the other has a physical manifestation.

No, the difference is this: A Forum for running a game, and a Forum for talking about a game. The Forum for talking about a game would be in the Video Game/Other Games Forum, and the Forum for running a game has been, and always will be, RPG. The same as it has been for RPGs with a "physical manifestation," such as Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Dragons of Pern, Love Hina, Fruits Basket, and of course Pokemon.

I'm still for the "if you wanna run a Table Top Game on TPM... put it in the RPG Forum" and I'm not alone on this subject.

[RedStarWarrior]

No, the difference is this: A Forum for running a game, and a Forum for talking about a game. The Forum for talking about a game would be in the Video Game/Other Games Forum, and the Forum for running a game has been, and always will be, RPG. The same as it has been for RPGs with a "physical manifestation," such as Yu-Gi-Oh, Magic, Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, Dragons of Pern, Love Hina, Fruits Basket, and of course Pokemon.

I'm still for the "if you wanna run a Table Top Game on TPM... put it in the RPG Forum" and I'm not alone on this subject.
My quote, which you apparently misunderstood the first time (judging from your deleted post) and still apparently misunderstand refers to making a subforum of RPG for games like D&D. Not for the discussion of such, but for the actual roleplaying, whereas a couple of people that are playing D&D in RL (for example since it is the best known) could invite a few people online to play with them to make a complete game, typing out all the moves. Now, the only reason I would want to do it as a subforum is because there could be multiple D&D RPG topics, whereas in the RPG forum, it is frowned on to do direct copies of existing RPGs. By physical manifestation, I mean that the game exists as a tabletop board-esque game (not really sure the term for it), not that it exists outside of the RPG forum period.

[Mew Master]

My quote, which you apparently misunderstood the first time (judging from your deleted post)
Honestly I got confused between what you had said and what Rudy had said. Kinda jumbled them together until realized that I was responding to the wrong person about a different thing. My bad. Which is why I deleted it.


and still apparently misunderstand refers to making a subforum of RPG for games like D&D. Not for the discussion of such, but for the actual roleplaying,

That clarifies your stance... a bit.


Now, the only reason I would want to do it as a subforum is because there could be multiple D&D RPG topics, whereas in the RPG forum, it is frowned on to do direct copies of existing RPGs.

Here's the thing. A D&D (or Table Top RPG) is not going to be the same across the board. Dungeon Masters have all kinds of different ideas, monsters, settings, traps, challenges, and stories that they want to run their players through. It would be no different than all the Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh RPGs we've had in the past, on the board at the same time. Each different from the other in some aspect, be it plot, characters, setting, what-have-you.

I don't think it's going to be an issue. Hasn't been before.

[RedStarWarrior]

Honestly I got confused between what you had said and what Rudy had said. Kinda jumbled them together until realized that I was responding to the wrong person about a different thing. My bad. Which is why I deleted it.



That clarifies your stance... a bit.



Here's the thing. A D&D (or Table Top RPG) is not going to be the same across the board. Dungeon Masters have all kinds of different ideas, monsters, settings, traps, challenges, and stories that they want to run their players through. It would be no different than all the Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh RPGs we've had in the past, on the board at the same time. Each different from the other in some aspect, be it plot, characters, setting, what-have-you.

I don't think it's going to be an issue. Hasn't been before.
If you think it wouldn't be an issue, that's fine.

[Houndoom_Lover]

Right on, Shazza.

If we had a Mt. Moon, I'd visit it...Constantly. I think I belong there. Beam me uuuup!

I'm to silly to be serious right now :0 A freakin' away! *rolls outta this thread*

[Heald]

Okay guys, thanks for the comments and criticism. Here is a revised, shortened list of proposals based on your comments:

1) Mt. Moon. See the other topic for that.

2) General Discussion and Misc remain unchanged.

3) Pokemon Forum. There are mixed feelings about this. Here is my revised proposal for this:

Main Forum: Pokemon Games
Sub-Forums: Advanced Generation and Classical Generation

I am against making further subforums, or if need be, make a new subforum, DS Generation, and divide it from Advanced Gen. Within these forums, make prefixes for topics like in Classical, so the tags would be: [RBY], [GSC], [RBE], [FRLG], [DPP], [HGSS].

The main forum itself would be for discussion of spin-offs and such. No point creating a subforum for just spin-offs.

My main argument is this: no forum or subforum should exist just as a portal for other subforums. It just looks stupid. I haven't encountered a single other forum that does this, having a completely empty forum that only exists of 2 other subforums.

4) I propose renaming TCG to Tabletop, Card and Other Games, rather than calling it either Tabletop Games or Other Games. It would be TCO for short, obviously.

5) I didn't notice anyone raise any objections to merging Pokemon Anime and Other Anime into a single Anime & Manga forum, so either I missed it or everyone agrees with it.

6) As for the archives, the majority seem to agree that the Main Archive ought to be the single forum and all the other archives are sub-forums of this main archive. I still don't think that the RPG, Fanfic etc Archives should be returned to their respective forums, since it means all the locked, inactive forums are in one place and out of the way, thus reducing clutter.

As for the OPB archive, I think this should be moved to the Graveyard (mods know what I'm talking about) for now. If people want it back, we can put it back, but otherwise it is pretty pointless.
___________________

That is all.

I didn't weigh in on whether actually D&D games should be played in TCO or in RPG, mainly because I don't think that is that important now. Once the forum is created (or, more appropriately, TCG renamed to TCO) then perhaps if there is any interest, then a decision can be made.

[RedStarWarrior]

I believe the FanFic Archive should be renamed the FanFic Library, due to it's intended purpose. That was the same reason that I felt it should be moved as a subforum of FanFic.

[Houndoom_Lover]

.........! Yeah! The Fanfiction Archives should be a sublibrary...I mean forum, in the fanfiction section. I just realised right now it wasn't X3 When Red spoke words. We can all tell I pay attention to where things are.

I like that idea, and everything else seems dandy.