Couple Arrested for Refusing to Pay Tip

[mr_pikachu]

Yes, this (http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Time-In-Prison--70426052.html?yhp=1) actually happened in the United States. Pennsylvania, to be exact.


[Leslie] Pope and John Wagner were hauled away by police and charged with theft for not paying the mandatory 18 percent gratuity totaling $16 after eating at the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, Pa. with six friends.

Pope claimed that they had to wait nearly an hour for their order and that she had to get napkins and silverware for the table herself.

“At this point I became very annoyed because I had already gone up to the bar myself to have my soda refilled because the waitress never came back,” Pope said.

After the $73 bill came, the group paid for food, drinks, and tax but refused to pay the tip. After explaining the bad service to the bartender in charge, Pope claimed he took their money and called police. The couple was handcuffed and placed in the back of a police car.

Thoughts?

[Houndoom_Lover]

What the hell, PA! Way to let me down- I leave for a few months, and you missbehave when I'm gone.

Fuck, I only tip when they're nearby/were awesome at their jobs. Its not manditory to pay tips in PA. In fact, if you ask for tips in PA you can get arrest. It's equal to being a whore in good old PA.

I think the pub in Bethlehem is in the wrong.

[Ayeun]

It is mandatory to Tip in the US? I thought that was an old wives tale...

[Houndoom_Lover]

:0 They're not though...I don't understand

[mr_pikachu]

Some places demand a minimum tip for large parties (often six or more diners). Many dislike such policies, but few actually go out with at least five other people frequently enough for it to really matter. But there's always that fear that the service will be a little slack because the waiter knows he's getting a certain percentage no matter what.

What's notable here is that the service was over-the-top horrendous (rather than merely a little slow), and the bar called the cops when the customers refused to pay it. Not to mention that the police went right ahead and arrested the couple. This is the ultimate fear of diners dealing with such policies, but it always sounds too ludicrous to be possible... until now. So much for "the customer is always right."

I have a feeling that this pub's business is about to collapse.

[abunaidesu]

Yes, this (http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local-beat/Time-In-Prison--70426052.html?yhp=1) actually happened in the United States. Pennsylvania, to be exact.



Thoughts?

I thought tips were socially mandated? I've skimped on giving tips in the past when receiving shoddy service. I don't give a damn that they work less than minimum wage; you don't treat your customers like garbage and then expect them to tip you.

I'm waiting for shazza to post a joke about me being Asian.

[Master Rudy]

I'm waiting for shazza to post a joke about me being Asian.

Asians are notoriously bad tippers.....there I did it for him!
Don't worry! I'm not singling you out......I'd say that about Jews as well! :D
lol god I am so joking ^_~

Now I've worked for tips myself in the past and have gotten shot in the foot before. Nothing worse than driving a pizza 15 miles one way in damn near record time for a big round to the nearest dollar, 30 cent, keep the change tip. On the one hand I understand why some places enforce that kind of a policy. It's to protect their employees from busting their ass and then getting shafted by the cheap prick and his friends. Even so this is downright over the top on all ends. The waitress should have been busting her ass slightly more full well knowing it was a sure minimum as opposed to flat out expecting to get it anyway despite half assing her job. On the flip side however calling the cops in this case.....fucking absurd. It be a total joke if this shit held up in court if it goes that far.

[Bear]

I don't know if the whole article goes into the detail, but perhaps they waited an hour because the place was jammed and they were understaffed? Frequently in food service places a dinner rush can be unpredictably large for no reason whatsoever, and it's tough to maintain everything that's happening indefinitely. In cases like these, the customers need to be notified of any expected delays so they are aware of the wait when they enter. Restaurants will get busy, and most customers will understand and be more tolerant if you just TELL them it's gonna be a little bit. From the sound of this article though, it seems the restaurant was not doing a good job keeping their customers posted of any wait times.

However, all this doesn't matter when it comes to legality. Mandatory gratuities for large parties are common practice, and an enforceable policy by law. The cops don't give a rat's ass whether the restaurant is doing a good job or if the waitress deserved a tip or not. They are called to enforce the law, and enforce it they did. The issue with how the Management is running the establishment is a completely different subject.

[Heald]

In the UK, we abhor that horrible Yank custom of tipping, and it sickens me that it is slowly infesting our restaurant culture.

Why should get paid extra for doing your job well? Meal prices are so expensive anyway that surely that contains the tip there. I've never tipped anyone for a drink and I only ever tip at restaurants if I can't be bothered to pay with exact change, or if the service was above and beyond the call of duty and the meal wasn't expensive.

[Telume]

Tipping's existed for a lot of things Heald and it's not just a Yank custom. If you go to a hotel and they give you good service you tip the bell boy.

But anyway, in ANY restaurant or establishment, if someone gives me bad service, I would never tip.

I tend to find that college students tend to be horrible tippers too, btw. :P

[Heald]

It's a Yank custom in the UK because no one did it until we started importing Yank TV and movies and all the Yanks start tipping everyone left right and centre in all those films.

Over here, restaurants are the only place where tipping is known to take place. Tipping anywhere else is unheard of and a strictly alien concept to Brits. I'd never even think of tipping anyone in a hotel.

[Drago]

For me, tipping comes down to how good a personalized service is. I got a Thai massage the other night, and made sure to tip the girl who gave it. Because yes, she's getting paid already, but I feel as though her service to me warranted an extra couple bucks. No, she wasn't a hooker.

A tip being mandatory is ridiculous. You may as well just call it a service surcharge. Also, to get up in arms and call the cops is not business savvy. Trying to clamp down an extra couple bucks may cost them a lot in the long run.

[Jeff]

The whole reason for tipping is to reward good service. People will be encouraged to give good service if they know they'll get a tip for it. If they're going to get a tip either way, why bother with the service?

Yeah, the whole idea of mandatory tips is ridiculous. They're better off reducing it and calling it a "large party fee" and allowing people to tip on top of that.

[Blademaster]

Hope that restaurant enjoys spiraling into debt after that couple gets back at them and nobody goes to eat there anymore. Mandatory tipping... Pfft. Biggest crock of shit to come out of a restaurant since... Well, fuck if I know, but in a business as hilariously inept at times as restaurant work is, this is pretty close to the top of the "How to fuck yourself several times over." list.

[Houndoom_Lover]

But... It's against the law to mandate tips in PA. ._. I've been to that little backwater town, there is nothing there that sugests that they should.

You can walk right outta Peak N Peak and no one would do shit to ya.

[abunaidesu]

I had a friend who went to Drexel University and used to constantly tell me how much she hated Philadelphia.

[Houndoom_Lover]

I lived in Pa for a long time. It's dreary, wet, cold, snowying, full of old people (second state with the most old people), hilly, bug infected, fulla weird cults and traditions, shitty tippers, and casual bears and Lake Erie....I love it there X3

[Crystal Mew]

Once my friend left 2 pennies as a tip, because he asked the waitress how much the lemonade was, and asked if the refills were free and she said that they were. so he had like 5 lemonades, and she charged him for every one.

See in cases like that, I can see leaving little, or no tip.

But if they're new or swamped, and are still really nice, I dont see why you shouldnt tip them. thats the main reason I hated going out with my ex, he would never tip and I felt horrible because they werent bad waiters or anything.

[Master Rudy]

Yeah, the whole idea of mandatory tips is ridiculous. They're better off reducing it and calling it a "large party fee" and allowing people to tip on top of that.

Jeff said it best I think. As opposed to calling it a tip if they go ahead and call it that then you get less problems if the service totally blows.

And Heald here's something you may want to keep in mind. I don't know if it's the same outside of the US but here if you work a job where getting tips is commonplace (bartender, waiter, ect) then the place is not required to pay you the minimum wage. For example in the US the min is currently $7.25 an hour. Despite that the drivers at the local Domino's Pizza only make $3.50 an hour.

[Heald]

This issue was raised last year in the UK. Some restaurants were under fire for paying their workers minimum wage even though they were getting tips, i.e. they were taking the tips from the workers and using the tips to make up their wage and paying them minimum wage. This was ruled illegal, since tips don't constitute part of a real wage.

The fact is, the tipping culture only serves to exploit young unskilled workers and is frankly disgusting as the only people who benefit from the tipping culture are the owners of restaurants and such who can get away with paying their workers exploitative wages.

[RedStarWarrior]

Of course, the fact that people in service industries such as this should be more inclined to provide better service considering that they need the tips to live off of.

[Telume]

Heald: Think of it this way, on a good night. Some people in the service industry can get a week's pay in 1 night.

I know of some waiters who work in Olive Garden and stuff that say they get at least 400-900 dollars in tips, and I should note that they don't have to pay the owner of the restaurant a dime. It's theirs to keep.

Of course just like how you can get good tips in 1 night you could have a night where you only make 50 dollars.

[Mr.E]

Servers don't even wait on you in fast food places, who the hell are you tipping at Arby's?

[shazza]

I\'m waiting for shazza to post a joke about me being Asian. Nah. Tipping is extremely rare in Australia; even if it were customary, I would also tip depending on the service and my level of satisfaction. I find America crazy for tipping. And watching so much Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm, it also seems rather complicated!

[Heald]

I understand why Yanks have tips: they have a system that underpays people in the service career and tips are rewards for good service.

The UK has a minimum wage for all jobs, and we also have a work ethic that you should do your best anyway, not bribed into actually doing your job. Actually, I wish that last part was true, but still.

[Telume]

Servers don't even wait on you in fast food places, who the hell are you tipping at Arby's?

It wasn't Arby's actually, it was Olive Garden. My mistake.


I understand why Yanks have tips: they have a system that underpays people in the service career and tips are rewards for good service.

The UK has a minimum wage for all jobs, and we also have a work ethic that you should do your best anyway, not bribed into actually doing your job. Actually, I wish that last part was true, but still.

Actually they aren't underpaid, they're paid the federal minimum wage.

[Heald]

I thought someone mentioned earlier that people who get tips were exempt from the minimum wage system?

You Yanks and your crazy laws.

[Jeff]

They are. I used to work as a bus boy at a local restaurant and was paid $5.15 an hour which was minimum back then, but the waiters/waitresses were paid, IIRC, $2.75, because they got tips on top of that (I got tips to, but it was a small fraction of what the waiters and waitresses made). I would always hear them complain if a table gave them a bad tip because they relied on tips to make the majority of their money from the job. Despite that though, I still think that good job = good tip, bad job = bad tip.

[Quicksilver62160]

Eh, kind of a gray area. I was pissed the other night when my group had a mandatory tip on a $120 meal where the waiter walked past the table three times (without stopping) and only refilled my soda once when I practically mauled him.

Guy was stupid though, gave him more than the bill and asked for changed and he gave us the 18% tip too! Needless to say we weren't as forgiving and probably left only 12% for his poor service.

Mind you, the 18% is usually charged to parties of a certain size (usually over 10 around here). There are some places that charge that anyway. I know it's not fair but if you're going to eat at a place like that be prepared.

Now getting arrested for it? Well, legally you can just pay the bill (which they should have done) and talked to a manager about the tip. I think this got a little out of hand. Stupid Phillies...

[Telume]

I thought someone mentioned earlier that people who get tips were exempt from the minimum wage system?

You Yanks and your crazy laws.

Usually people who get tips get the federal minimum wage which is 5.15 an hour. If it hasn't gone up (a lot of states have been raising their minimum wage.)

At least, that's the way it works here in Florida, don't know about other states though.

[Lady Vulpix]

I think that's ridiculous.

Here in Argentina it's customary to pay tips of around 10%, but not everyone does, and after receiving such a crappy service I doubt anyone would.

And Rudy, I must ruin your statistic. I was the best tipper among my high-school friends and most of them were not Jewish (and none of them were Asian). Many members of my family usually give generous tips too. Not all of them, but I think that's enough to prove you wrong.

[Heald]

I remember the first time I ever saw someone leave a tip, when I was about 14. A friend and I were having a coke at a small, deserted cafe and the only other people there was this couple. The couple left and we noticed they had left two pounds on the table. My friend, sure they weren't coming back, decided to pocket the two pounds on the way out, only for the waitress to come over and yell at us for stealing her tip. At first we were confused.
"What's a tip? That money was just left there!"
The waitress got hysterical so we just gave her the two pounds and said 'If you care about such a tiny amount of money so much, fine, take it bitch' and then we walked out. Later I found out what a tip was.

Had I realised what a tip actually was then, I wouldn't have given her a tip for the way she acted towards us when we stole her tip.

[Telume]

I remember the first time I ever saw someone leave a tip, when I was about 14. A friend and I were having a coke at a small, deserted cafe and the only other people there was this couple. The couple left and we noticed they had left two pounds on the table. My friend, sure they weren't coming back, decided to pocket the two pounds on the way out, only for the waitress to come over and yell at us for stealing her tip. At first we were confused.
"What's a tip? That money was just left there!"
The waitress got hysterical so we just gave her the two pounds and said 'If you care about such a tiny amount of money so much, fine, take it bitch' and then we walked out. Later I found out what a tip was.

Had I realised what a tip actually was then, I wouldn't have given her a tip for the way she acted towards us when we stole her tip.

When I was younger I considered keeping the tips too. But when I realized what they were I quickly perished that thought.

[Chris 2.1]

That story made me laugh. I work in a pretty upscale cocktail bar in the Uk; I get £6.50 an hour, which is pretty fucking good for bar work, and I get tips on top of that. A lot of places have a 'tip jar', where every tip gets registered and split among the staff, but we disregard that. I am always friendly, have a bit of a chat and treat customers well, and if they wanna give me a few quid to get a beer after my shift, then I've earned it; not Bob Smith there whose ignoring customers and sucking from the beer tap.

On a saturday I can make £25 in tips, and we are on comission for any membership cards we sell (£4 from each sale). I've made +£200 a month from pushing membership sales.

Customary tipping is ridiculous. I know why its done - I get that, but I just think its ridiculous.

[Telume]

That story made me laugh. I work in a pretty upscale cocktail bar in the Uk; I get £6.50 an hour, which is pretty fucking good for bar work, and I get tips on top of that. A lot of places have a 'tip jar', where every tip gets registered and split among the staff, but we disregard that. I am always friendly, have a bit of a chat and treat customers well, and if they wanna give me a few quid to get a beer after my shift, then I've earned it; not Bob Smith there whose ignoring customers and sucking from the beer tap.

On a saturday I can make £25 in tips, and we are on comission for any membership cards we sell (£4 from each sale). I've made +£200 a month from pushing membership sales.

Customary tipping is ridiculous. I know why its done - I get that, but I just think its ridiculous.

14 bucks for bar work? Hell yeah that's good. Especially compared to what you get paid here in the US to do the same thing. (Okay yes it depends on where you work, but still). I think my math might be a bit off on the currency conversion though.

[mr_pikachu]

14 bucks for bar work? Hell yeah that's good. Especially compared to what you get paid here in the US to do the same thing. (Okay yes it depends on where you work, but still). I think my math might be a bit off on the currency conversion though.

Yeah, it's a little off: 1 GBP = 1.65070 USD (http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi?Amount=6.5&From=GBP&To=USD&image.x=31&image.y=16&image=Submit). Still, $10.73 an hour for bar work isn't bad.

[Telume]

Yeah, it's a little off: 1 GBP = 1.65070 USD (http://www.xe.com/ucc/convert.cgi?Amount=6.5&From=GBP&To=USD&image.x=31&image.y=16&image=Submit). Still, $10.73 an hour for bar work isn't bad.

I thought pounds were still 1 GBP = 2 USD but I guess it went down.

[Heald]

The pound has gone down the toilet thanks to Gordon Brown.

PROTIP: If the gold price is at a record low, DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT SELL OFF YOUR ENTIRE NATION'S STOCKPILE OF GOLD

GODDAMMIT GORDON THINK WITH THE BIG HEAD

[Telume]

The pound has gone down the toilet thanks to Gordon Brown.

PROTIP: If the gold price is at a record low, DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT SELL OFF YOUR ENTIRE NATION'S STOCKPILE OF GOLD

GODDAMMIT GORDON THINK WITH THE BIG HEAD

Our old leader made incompetent decisions too, which is why everyone hates us right now, but then Obama's not doing much to help that right now, so we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

But anyway, back on topic:

Yeah, a lot of the wierd stories I've heard SEEM TO COME FROM THAT STATE. Why is PA so strange?