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Mr. Brightside
19th July 2010, 03:37 PM
I guess you know this far that i kinda suck at ev's and such XD

So anyway, now that i have more free time i decided to learn everything about competitive battles but there are still some things that confuse me.

I try to train most, if not all of my newly caught Pokemon according to ev's natures and such (i'm still trying to completely understand iv's) but as i said some things confuse me. If you want to raise a stat, let's say ATk for Tangrowth, you have to battle a Pokemon like Bibarel or Chatot. But in order to get the extra number in that stat you have to battle four of Pokemon who have Atk ev's? I don't get it. There are Pokemon like Bibarel who have 2 ev's.

When that is the case, do you only have to battle two Bibarel or the number doesn't count and it is still four?

Secondly, if your Pokemon has got the effort ribbon, if you try to reduce some unwanted ev's with the appropriate berry, would it work? And is there a way to find on what stat the ev's went, if you have messed up in training? I guess i know the answer on this... XD

Also, how do you know how to train your Pokemon according to stats, natures and such? I mean, how do you decide which stat to increase and what nature is right? I know there's always smogon and i've read a lot of pages over the past few days there, but i can't help but wonder why natures that increase the same stat as others are ignored. I have a Roserade with a Sassy nature and one of the smogon suggestions is a Calm nature Roserade. I get that speed is important but wouldn't ev training to increase that stat help? I just wouldn't mind not relying 100% on smogon and trying to make my own strategies.

Finally, and i do apologize if you're tired reading this, i was thinking of joining the smogon community in order to learn a few things right but since i'm already a member in a lot of forums i don't know if it would be worthy of my time.

DarkestLight
19th July 2010, 06:24 PM
I guess you know this far that i kinda suck at ev's and such XD

So anyway, now that i have more free time i decided to learn everything about competitive battles but there are still some things that confuse me.

Finally, and i do apologize if you're tired reading this, i was thinking of joining the smogon community in order to learn a few things right but since i'm already a member in a lot of forums i don't know if it would be worthy of my time.

Well, let me be the first to say that with Smogon, they have alot of helpful articles and threads that will help you get into Competitive battling, though they generally don't really "reteach" the basics of EV/IV training.

Seeing as I beat most of the other people to this, I'll throw in a few sentences to help you out, and well, I'll let the sages read and see if they agree with my lowly knowledge.

Part 1: EV accumulation

If you want to raise a stat, let's say ATk for Tangrowth, you have to battle a Pokemon like Bibarel or Chatot. But in order to get the extra number in that stat you have to battle four of Pokemon who have Atk ev's? I don't get it. There are Pokemon like Bibarel who have 2 ev's.

When you are raising a Pokemon's EV's you have it right so far. You want to raise attack, so you fight Pokemon that give up the EV in attack. Now, as far as that 4 point=1 stat point deal goes..you will not see that stat increase in full until you level up the Pokemon to lvl 100. Let me use your example.

Your Tangrowth is on lvl 1. You start having it attack Bibariels, and it gains Atk Ev's. You reach your 126th Bibarel (making you have 252 EV's in attack. You can have up to 255 EV's in any one stat [and 510 EV's total on any one pokemon], but 255 is not divisible by 4, so that's why EV spreads for Pokemon stop at 252-to make the highest amount of EV's that's divisible by 4 to have the best possible stat distribution.) and waste it. Yay, you now reached a maxed out Attack stat (EV wise) for your Tangrowth. You then begin simply leveling it up.

Your Tangrowth's Atk-during each level, will start to go up by much higher rates than if you did not train it (+3,+4, +6 +8, every level). By the time you reach 100-due to the way the math works, it evens out to 4 ev's to raise your ATK stat total by one digit. Still confused? No problem.

Here's another way to look at it. Let's say you have two Tangrowth's at lvl 50, Atk stat's are the same, at 124. No atk ev's gained on either one.

You kill off two Bibariels with one Tangrowth, and not with the other. When those two Pokemon reach 100, the one that killed off the 2 Bibariels will have 1 point higher in their attack total than the one that did not. (so one might be 250, and the other will be at 249).

Part 2: Training

#2) Also, how do you know how to train your Pokemon according to stats, natures and such? I mean, how do you decide which stat to increase and what nature is right? By choosing what role Your Pokemon will play on your team. If its gonna be a tank, you want good HP and Defense. If its gonna be a Sweeper, it needs good offensive stats. The natures help you localize what stat is to be the best and what stat you don't really have to worry about.

I know there's always smogon and i've read a lot of pages over the past few days there, but i can't help but wonder why natures that increase the same stat as others are ignored.

Because they decrease another stat that does not benefit the Pokemon. Ex. A Timid Jolteon is preferred over other Natures that raise Speed because Timid raises Speed but drops Atk. Jolteon doesn't really use its Attack stat, so that benefits the player by not having to waste EV's on it.


I have a Roserade with a Sassy nature and one of the smogon suggestions is a Calm nature Roserade. I get that speed is important but wouldn't ev training to increase that stat help? Yes and no. In this case, you would be working against yourself, since the nature cuts back on how well you are able to accumulate EV totals for Speed.


Quick Side trip. With natures, you get a boost and a defecit in your training. The stat that is boosted is increased by a multiplier of 1.1, while the stat that is dropped is multiplied by a value of 0.9. So even if you EV trained a Roserade with Sassy, you would need to spend MORE Ev's trying to have it reach a speed that a Calm Mind Roserade would reach in less time because its nature is not hindering it in that regard.

Part 3: Uniqueness

#3 I just wouldn't mind not relying 100% on smogon and trying to make my own strategies. The Strategies on Smogon are the collective work of folks that have played and studied the metagame for years. New strategies always come up and surprise them, and that's what makes the game dynamic.

You can rely on their sets, and you can experiment and make your own. They just are used alot because these sets (at least the standard ones) are tried and true (depending on the metagame). So feel free to think outside the box-they're there for your reference at best-is what I can say.

Part 4: Revision

Secondly, if your Pokemon has got the effort ribbon, if you try to reduce some unwanted ev's with the appropriate berry, would it work? And is there a way to find on what stat the ev's went, if you have messed up in training? I guess i know the answer on this... XD

Yes you can reduce your Evs after you get the Effort Ribbon.
As for messing uy in training, well that's a bit difficult without clearing out all the ev's (alot of berries). I usually write down what I off so I notice if I make a weird mistake somewhere along the way.

x_X Wow that was long

Mr. Brightside
20th July 2010, 10:29 AM
Thank you very much for this!

But a last question just to be sure since i'm quite slow XD

Dividing 252 with 126 gives two which it's the number that Bibarel gives by defeating it. So 2 Bibarels give 4 points hence the plus 1 right? So the easiest way to ev train would be to battle the same Pokemon instead of multiple different Pokemon that give the same ev but on a different amount (1, 2, or 3).

Sorry i'm bad at maths -___-

Again thank you very much for this. I appreciate it a lot.

Poryhedron
20th July 2010, 06:30 PM
You don't have to defeat two Bibarel to "make it count". If you defeat three Bibarel, you'll have 6 Effort Points in Attack; failing to defeat a fourth Bibarel won't cause you to slide back to 4. It's just that Effort Points don't translate into stat gains except in multiples of 4. You can accumulate Effort any way you wish; defeating 12 Machop, defeating 6 Machoke, defeating 3 Machamp, or defeating a Machamp, 3 Machoke and 3 Machop will all give you exactly the same result as far as building your Effort Values is concerned.

One other thing; the reason you have to wait until L100 to get 1 stat point per 4 EP is because collecting 4 EP grants you (your current level / 100) stat points. So if you're level 25 and have an Attack EV of 64, those 64 EP will raise your Attack by 4 points. At level 50, those same 64 EP will instead raise your Attack by 8 points, and at level 100 they'll be adding their maximum value of 16 points.

Mr. Brightside
21st July 2010, 08:53 AM
You don't have to defeat two Bibarel to "make it count". If you defeat three Bibarel, you'll have 6 Effort Points in Attack; failing to defeat a fourth Bibarel won't cause you to slide back to 4. It's just that Effort Points don't translate into stat gains except in multiples of 4.

I understand this but...


You can accumulate Effort any way you wish; defeating 12 Machop, defeating 6 Machoke, defeating 3 Machamp, or defeating a Machamp, 3 Machoke and 3 Machop will all give you exactly the same result as far as building your Effort Values is concerned.

One other thing; the reason you have to wait until L100 to get 1 stat point per 4 EP is because collecting 4 EP grants you (your current level / 100) stat points. So if you're level 25 and have an Attack EV of 64, those 64 EP will raise your Attack by 4 points. At level 50, those same 64 EP will instead raise your Attack by 8 points, and at level 100 they'll be adding their maximum value of 16 points.

..., you totally lost me here. I suck so bad at maths. *rereads*

What i'm trying to understand is why each Pokemon has a different ev number if they all do the same? So if i randomly battle attackers (like Bibarel, Chatot or whatever) to get the ev's in attack how do i calculate the gaining points? By counting the Pokemon or their ev's?

Sorry, it's just that i'm that slow.

Jeff
21st July 2010, 09:41 AM
Each Pokemon gives you a certain amount of EVs for a specific stat (some give EVs for multiple stats, so they usually aren't good for EV training). Every Machop you defeat for example gives you 1 attack EV, Machoke gives you 2 attack EVs, and Machamp gives you 3. Just keep track of how much effort you gained and when you hit that magic number you were shooting for, then you're done with that stat and can move onto the next.

DarkestLight
21st July 2010, 07:39 PM
Jeff hit the nail.

It may help you to look up a Pokemon EV sheet, so you can look up what Pokemon gives what EV's, and you can adjust your training. Like if you are training a lvl 1 Donphan, you prolly wont put it up against a Machoke. You'd start small, wasting Machops-which are worth 1 attack EV.

You track the EV's you collect (since you can only collect up to 255 in any stat, and 510 EV's total for any Pokemon)

Pokemon have different EV values base on their own attributes, like Machamp > Machoke > Machop when it comes to attack, so it makes sense that you'd get 1 EV for attack from a Machop, but 3 EV's of attack from a Machamp. That's the way of the game, really.

Beat more difficult opponents, get more rewards.