Political Compass Thread

[Heald]

Just wondering where the rest of TPM stand politically. I know this thing isn't 100% accurate but as a barometer of how you feel on issues and policies, it does give a somewhat accurate view of where you stand.

Link to the Political Compass test website here (click 'Take the test' on the left-hand side) (http://www.politicalcompass.org/index)

If you feel like it, post your scores and whether you're surprised by the outcome, or whether you feel it is inaccurate of how you feel.

My score:
Your political compass

Economic Left/Right: -1.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.21

My result doesn't really surprise me. I take this test every year and I am usually in the centre of the economic left/right axis, although I am gradually moving more libertarian in terms of the 'North-South' part of the compass. I think my left/right score has been moving from 1 point right to 1 point left. I guess over the past few years I have changed my mind of issues relating to corporate responsibility, the environment and such. I hesitate to call myself either liberal or conservative, but annoyingly I guess I am a liberal conservative.

[Oslo]

Ooh, fun! I remember doing this in one of my high school classes, but that was a kajillion years ago.

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -9.33

A little on the extreme side, maybe, but my result doesn't surprise me. ;) The thing is, when I commit to an opinion or political stance, I commit all the way. The number of questions to which I didn't answer "Strongly Agree" or "Strongly Disagree" were few.

[shazza]

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -2.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.41

I've done it a few times over the years. I believe from memory that I am not so much extreme in my economic views, however my social views have only 'progressed' more to the left. I'm going to take a punt and say the majority of us will be social libertarian and economic left. If this is the case, a study linking Pokemon playing in childhood and adolescence to left-wing politics stance as an adult.

[Heald]

I'm going to take a punt and say the majority of us will be social libertarian and economic left. If this is the case, a study linking Pokemon playing in childhood and adolescence to left-wing politics stance as an adult.
I remember a few years ago, especially when threads like the Historical Accuracy of the Bible and Teaching Homosexuality to Children threads were pretty common (as were the inevitable shit-storms of NO U that followed), there was quite a diverse range of political opinion. So far we've only had a Brit, a Canadian and an Aussie answer this thread, whereas Americans are, on the whole, a lot more right-wing than the rest of the world. Even politicians and parties that they call 'liberal', 'leftie' or 'Commie' (for example, Obama, the Clintons, the Democrat Party etc.) are considered more right-wing than most mainstream parties in Europe and other parts of the world that have multi-party democracies/republics. I don't think a country can just be liberal, I think it has to evolve it (as the USA has noticeably become more liberal than it was in 1900).

[Fett One]

I'm not into politics so I took the test just for the sake of taking it.

My Score:
Your political compass

Economic Left/Right: -2.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.72

[Telume]

Economic Left/Right: -4.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.79

[Asilynne]

I guess Ill be the first american to step foot in here XD

Economic Left/Right: -4.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.00

Now, with the economic questions I never picked strongly agree/disagree since I dont much care about the economic side of politics, and really some of the social questions would have had different answers had they been slightly reworded. This is not an invitation to debate, merely the stances I have:

Religion: I'm religious and I would like for schools to allow prayer, keep God in the pledge of allegiance (the kids in my classes growing up that were athiests stayed quiet for the "under God" part so it wasn't a huge deal), and not look down upon christian clubs, however I also think ANYONE should be allowed to pray/not pray to whatever god(s) they believe in freely in school, as long as its not forced on anyone or dangerous to anyone or themselves. Also unless its specifically a religious based school religion should not be TAUGHT in school, but no religion should be outright banned since its a persons right to practice their nonharmful beliefs.

Sex: While I'm waiting to be married before I have sex, I'm not going to demand everyone do the same, however kids need to quit being idiots and at least use protection. I'm so sick of seeing mothers that are 10 years younger than me >.> As far as gay/lesbian/bi goes, two consenting adults can do what they want in private, its not my place to tell people who to have sex with. Its not my thing but being straight isn't their thing so there's no reason to get worked up about it XD

Abortion: This I do feel very strongly about, and I'm very against it. Its even hard for me to say if the mothers life is in danger, let alone any other reason. The reason why is I don't believe in killing people. and from a single cell it has the unique genetic makeup of a human being. At one week after conception the heart starts beating, and at that point in time most people don't even realise their pregnant. Plus I cant bear the thought of terminating a pregnancy, since there are so many women out there who cant have children and who would love to, its such a horrible waste when women are given the gift of a life inside them and decide to end it. And those 16 year old mothers I mentioned, where having a kid will 'ruin their life', well that is why use protection or shut your legs! Adoption is also an option. Remember this is my opinion and if you dont agree you are entitled to yours, but Im not looking to argue. I just mourn for the people those aborted children could have been had they been given the chance for life.

The Death Penalty: I don't believe in this either, for the reasons above. I don't think any human has the right to decide whether another human should live or die. Ive heard all the reasons about "well the prisons are full, funding blah blah" and I cant solve those problems. Maybe my ideal is silly but I still don't like the death penalty because to me it isn't right.

Environment: I'm all for protecting the environment, and I would rather us find an alternative fuel source asap. For one, destroying wildlife habitats is a horrible thing to do in the name of progress or the almighty dollar, also fossil fuels not only pollute when burned, but they wont last forever and its actually hurting the earth from within. The earth may end up surviving what we do to it but we may be digging our own grave.

$$$: The only money related things I really have a stance on are welfare and taxes. Welfare, Ive seen so many people abuse it that Im not a big fan, people that are physically able to get a job should get one, I have struggled in the past with unemployment and shitty jobs and I can tell you, if you want a job and you try hard for one you can get one. Sure it may suck and you may hate it, but its a job and you can ride that job and better yourself with the money you make to get a better job. Two jobs also helps! Ive been on the bottom and if you are there you can rise above, don't just get a hand-out from the gov...Plus 7-11 will hire literally ANYONE, trust me >.> (In America anyway, I dont know how hard it is to get jobs in other countries firsthand)
And with taxes, taxing the rich more will just make corperations, who only care about making as much profit as possible, stay BELOW a certain tax bracket so that they arent subject to the higher taxes, which will result in lay-offs for the normal everyday workers. Yes thats a dick move but some people only care about money. I dont believe in taxing the rich more because thats punishing them for being rich. Rewarding them for generosity would be better, but as I dont care enough about economics to know if thats feasible in the real world, Ill just say thats my ideal thought.

Im not going to touch on everything, thats just my basic stances. But one last thought is on this question of that test:

"There is now a worrying fusion of information and entertainment."

I strongly agreed with that one, I was always told "Don't believe everything you see on TV" which is wise advice, but with shows like the Colbert report and The Daily Show, while they may be funny and fun to watch, they can also mislead people. Largely the 'facts' on shows like this are heavily seasoned with opinion and lacking in citations. People who don't know or care to know a lot about politics may watch these shows and take everything said as concrete facts, when they are meant to be comedic and entertaining, not educational in the least. Two people I know have said they hated Palin because she said "I can see Russia from my house!!!" when it was in actuality Tina Fey acting as her to make fun of her >.> So yes, poke fun at both political parties but people need to realise when its not the whole truth or not true at all.

Again, for the tl;dr people, I dont want to debate Im just sharing my stances on certain things, because I dont completely fit into either of America's two main political parties and I don't think my compass score really said much of anything XD

Edit: well I was the first american when I started writing anyway XD

[Mew Master]

WOW, I out-class a LOT of you guys.

Economic Left/Right: -7.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.31

Dunno if you consider it a good/bad thing though...

Now I have some comments for Asi, and I'm not picking on her for this, just she's the first to say it.


Religion: I'm religious and I would like for schools to allow prayer, keep God in the pledge of allegiance (the kids in my classes growing up that were athiests stayed quiet for the "under God" part so it wasn't a huge deal), and not look down upon christian clubs, however I also think ANYONE should be allowed to pray/not pray to whatever god(s) they believe in freely in school, as long as its not forced on anyone or dangerous to anyone or themselves. Also unless its specifically a religious based school religion should not be TAUGHT in school, but no religion should be outright banned since its a persons right to practice their nonharmful beliefs.

1) Prayer isn't banned from public schools. Mandated prayer to one particular religion is. Forcing everyone to pray to Allah or to the great Tiki God under the sea when they don't follow or believe that is just as First Amendment violating as it is the Christian God (which has been a Conservative pushing-point for years now). There's nothing stopping you from praying, it's just you can't force everyone else to.
2) The Original Pledge of Allegiance didn't have "under God" written in it. It was added in the mid 60's during the Communist scare.
3) I do think religion should be taught in school, but not in science class. It belongs in a sociology, English, or other such class, but definably not science.
4) Also depends if that "non-harmful" happens to directly insult or segregate a member(s) of the student body because they aren't part of that religion. Non-harmful my ass.


Abortion: This I do feel very strongly about, and I'm very against it. Its even hard for me to say if the mothers life is in danger, let alone any other reason. The reason why is I don't believe in killing people. and from a single cell it has the unique genetic makeup of a human being. At one week after conception the heart starts beating, and at that point in time most people don't even realise their pregnant. Plus I cant bear the thought of terminating a pregnancy, since there are so many women out there who cant have children and who would love to, its such a horrible waste when women are given the gift of a life inside them and decide to end it. And those 16 year old mothers I mentioned, where having a kid will 'ruin their life', well that is why use protection or shut your legs! Adoption is also an option. Remember this is my opinion and if you dont agree you are entitled to yours, but Im not looking to argue. I just mourn for the people those aborted children could have been had they been given the chance for life.

I know we talked about this to some degree Asi, but some things:

1) An acorn is not a tree. A silk worm is not a dress. A sperm and egg are not a person. I know this sounds harsh, but this is the reality. As well as the fact that many times mothers have natural abortions and don't even realize it.
2) Safe sex education is primary to avoid this. I strongly support the removal of "abstinence only education" as it doesn't do jack crap, and has shown to do jack crap through several different studies over the last 20 or so years.
2a) It's also interesting to mention that the Southern US, which has the highest Conservative numbers in political outlook ALSO has some of the highest records of teen pregnancy, abortion, and STDs. I know correlation doesn't equal causation, but it's an interesting correlation innit?
3) It would also help if the process of adoption wasn't as back-asswards as it is and allowed homosexuals the oppertunity to adopt. And atheists too, several agenecies refuse to allow parents to adopt based on their religious (lack there of) and sexual orientation.

Do I like abortion? No. Do I think it should be legalized? Yes. It shouldn't be the first option, and it shouldn't be the one where they have to buy a coat hanger from Wal-Mart because no one will do it. It would help if there was better education about safe sex AND better lines of adoption for the kids so they don't rot away in an orphanage bouncing from foster home to foster home.

I should know. I experienced this.

Not pickin on ya Asi... just sayin...

[Heald]

Abortion: This I do feel very strongly about, and I'm very against it. Its even hard for me to say if the mothers life is in danger, let alone any other reason. The reason why is I don't believe in killing people. and from a single cell it has the unique genetic makeup of a human being. At one week after conception the heart starts beating, and at that point in time most people don't even realise their pregnant. Plus I cant bear the thought of terminating a pregnancy, since there are so many women out there who cant have children and who would love to, its such a horrible waste when women are given the gift of a life inside them and decide to end it. And those 16 year old mothers I mentioned, where having a kid will 'ruin their life', well that is why use protection or shut your legs! Adoption is also an option. Remember this is my opinion and if you dont agree you are entitled to yours, but Im not looking to argue. I just mourn for the people those aborted children could have been had they been given the chance for life.
I agree that abortion is a pretty terrible thing for all involved, but the fact is that banning or restricting abortion doesn't save the lives of unborn children, it just endangers the lives and wellbeing of expecting women as they seek medically dangerous alternatives to a clinical abortion. All an abortion is is a medically-induced miscarriage, and it is the lesser of two evils.


"There is now a worrying fusion of information and entertainment."

I strongly agreed with that one, I was always told "Don't believe everything you see on TV" which is wise advice, but with shows like the Colbert report and The Daily Show, while they may be funny and fun to watch, they can also mislead people. Largely the 'facts' on shows like this are heavily seasoned with opinion and lacking in citations. People who don't know or care to know a lot about politics may watch these shows and take everything said as concrete facts, when they are meant to be comedic and entertaining, not educational in the least. Two people I know have said they hated Palin because she said "I can see Russia from my house!!!" when it was in actuality Tina Fey acting as her to make fun of her >.> So yes, poke fun at both political parties but people need to realise when its not the whole truth or not true at all.
I honestly don't think this is what the question was referring to at all, but to each their own. The Daily Show and the Colbert Report are quite clearly comedy shows and advertise themselves as such. Only a complete fool would mistake it for a show that broadcasts information.

Personally, I feel this question was referring to Fox News, which isn't even a news channel but more a 24-hour entertainment show that promotes a far-right political stance by distorting current events. Nothing about Fox News is informative or honest. You can't trust any corporation that goes to court to appeal that it has a constitutional right to mislead and lie to people and call it news. It furthermore had a working relationship with the Bush administration so that it would distort news in favour of them in exchange for talking points. That is a worrying infusion of information and entertainment. People watch Fox News to be entertained, to watch it to be informed is like watching Looney Tunes in order to gain insight into the animal kingdom. The same applies to the tabloids and websites that News Corporation run.

[Asilynne]

With religion, I believe in your #4 as well. I was on the receiving end of some insults and such in HS, and I do consider that harmful.

With abortion, you are most definately entitled to hold those opinions, as I am entitled to mine. The reason I specifically said in the abortion part of my post that I was not looking for a fight is because I know of the huge debate "When does Humanity Begin?" and it is my belief that it is wrong to kill the seed once it has started growing. This is my belief and I will refrain from forcing others to believe it, but I will also not sway on it. I feel it is a horrible shame to kill the growing life when it may touch other lives in ways we can not forsee, I cant help but think of the person that an aborted baby could have been, and the life they never will get to have.

[CuteLassJigglypuff]

My Score:

The Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: -0.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.18

I'm not surprised with the results. I've taken some political tests before and I'm usually in the Libertarian side.

[Leon-IH]

Economic Left/Right: -7.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.59

My economic views (basically I support borderline communist with Taxation on companies who are doing something unsustainable, i.e. mining and leave the rest taxed as little as needed).. I do not feel this can accurately be represented.

I don't actually agree with your assertion that Americans are more right wing than Australians Heald; we've got a lot of nationalist bullshit going on over here right now with regard to Asylum Seekers and our Christian Lobby is trying to get the government to pass a mandatory internet filter & mandatory internet logging -- the scary part is the government is actually trying to do it...


My greatest concern at the moment is that information is becoming a commodity rather than a right; though of course information isn't knowledge.. but it's needed to gain knowledge.

[Fett One]

I guess Ill be the first american to step foot in here XD

Actually, I'm the first American to step foot in here, but second place is still good. :keke:

[Blademaster]

I was in the middle of the lower-left box. Left and libertarian.

So I'm part of the majority. Big shock.

[Katie]

I immediately judge anyone who dislikes "welfare". What aspect, exactly? All of it?

The only reason I will graduate college is due to my own chuck of welfare in the form of goverment student loans.

The only reason my family kept our house in ~2001 was because my dad was able to collect unemployment checks when the economy tanked after 9/11 and there were massive layoffs.

My aunt accepts welfare in the form of food stamps because she was in a car accident and is not healthy enough to work more than part-time. However, you have to be half-dead to qualify for disability (and years after applying) and she is still in huge debt. She didn't even accept food stamps for the longest time because she was ashamed that that was what she had to resort to. It's because of these "HURRR WELFARE QUEENS" catchphrase-spouting-idiots' influence on popular opinion about those accepting aid that my aunt wasn't able to eat much for several months. Save a little of that compassion you have for 100-cell fetuses and redirect it to conscious members of our current society, please. The vast majority of people on welfare are under 18 anyway and have no other option.

As much as young republicans like to parrot what they hear their parents say who are parroting what fox news says, "welfare" may indeed need reform but it is NOT currently in the citizen's favor in the slightest. Welfare queens do not exist (thanks, Reagan you sensationalist moron). More info: http://www.dollarish.com/720744776/dont-trash-talk-the-poor-clearing-up-misconceptions-about-welfare/

---

As for abortion, I believe under no circumstances should it be illegal. As pointed out earlier, making it illegal will simply redirect desperate women to other means that will kill the fetus anyway and possibly maim/kill the woman as well. I once read about a woman who clawed out her own fetus and bits of uterus with her fingernails and the stick-end of a plunger. (Though the other end would have made for a funnier visual).

Additionally, middle-to-upper class women wanting abortions would simply fly to other countries where it is legal. That would only leave poor women unable to abort with more children than they could care for (OH NO NOT WELFARE).

The fact of the matter is sometimes condoms break, women are raped, children are influenced by Creepy Uncle George, and fetuses form with only half their bodies. Shit happens and I believe we should use the full extent of the science we understand to safely help these people. 9 months is a very, very long and physically exhausting time to carry a reminder of a traumatic experience, and it is 99% impossible to job hunt with a baby bump. They're not legally allowed to not hire you because of it... but that bullshit happens no matter what the law says.

Also, the heart starts beating 3 full weeks after conception, not just 1. :eng101:


Btw, these rants were indeed sparked by your post, Asilynne, but they are not directed at you. :)

I'm pretty off-topic though, I didn't take the test and now I have other stuff to do :round:

[Oslo]

I wanna be Katie's friend. :O

[Drago]

Economic Left/Right: -3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.36

I call bullshit on this meter - I only ended up left-wing because the test villainises right-wing with gross generalisations.

[Mew Master]

I wanna be Katie's friend. :O

Ditto. O.o

[Deadwood_Zen]

Economic Left/Right: -4.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.62

[Heald]

I call bullshit on this meter - I only ended up left-wing because the test villainises right-wing with gross generalisations.
What questions exactly?

[Austrian ViceMaster Alex]

Here goes nothing:

Economic Left/Right: -5.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.23

Oh ... rather close to Gandhi.

[Blademaster]

Thirding the Katie's friend request.

[Asilynne]

I can see you're as passionate about those subjects as I am Katie and I can respect that :D

With my abortion stance, I do realise that even though its hard for me to say, if the womans life is in danger, as in, if without the abortion both mother and child would die, you do have to remove it. If such a thing ever happened to me I would probably make that decision although it would definately traumatise me. But all other types, I dont think should be legal because in my belief it should never be legal for one human to kill another, no matter how small or in what state of formation. Abortion for failed birth control, no, because its not the babies fault its parents used only one form of birth control that at its BEST has a 70 or so % success rate. Rape, I also say no, because even though rape is a horrible thing again it isnt the childs fault and if it is unwanted by the mother it can go up for adoption and grow up never knowing how it was conceived. (I, personally would keep it because even though it is half the rapist its also half me and I would want to make sure that kid was at least loved by one of its parents). Now incest is a thing that stumps me, but anon adoption would also work. Im not trying to be all Miss High and Mighty Morals over here, this is just something I feel strongly for, and I honestly expected this reaction from everyone so Im ok with it XD Im obviously outnumbered in this country and most likely the world, and while I would try and talk someone out of it and consider other options, ultimately its their decision. I dont think it should be legal but it is, so its really a non issue at this point unfortunately.

But this brings up another thing that I dont like, fertility clinics. And this might sound funny coming from me, I very deeply want to be a mother one day, and I would be devistated if I couldnt have kids, so it would seem like fertility clinics would be a perfect option. And even though yes I would like to have my own biological children, and I understand the want/need that other people have for that, at the same time there are so many kids not just in America but around the world without families, going from foster to foster etc. Also there are so many unwanted children being conceived that its like, why dont they simply adopt? It just seems selfish to spend so much on that when there are already children needing a family out there. Just throwing that out there XD

One reason why I dont particularly care for politics is that oftentimes laws, and leaders, and governments dont leave room for right and wrong, no one can ever agree on anything, and theres always going to be a person or group of people made to feel alienated. Theres no way any political figure can ever win completely, but unfortunately nothing will ever change that. Its human nature to be contrary.

Dragoknight: Yeah I noticed that >.> the way some of the questions were worded totally threw off my answers and thats why I just decided to lay out what I believed in a huge ass post of doom lol

[Deadwood_Zen]

My abortion stance is women's choice. Though, if I had a kid(even now at 15), I'd still want to keep it, since I knew the risks of my sexual activity beforehand, but as I would be the father, the final decision rests whomever is carrying the fruit of my loins.

And I only like authoritarian if I'm the one in control, lol.

Though, in my opinion, dictatorship is more effective then the Republic we have right now in the US. I'm not saying Stalin was a great man, but he got shit done. He wanted to change a law, and it changed. Here we have to wait for a couple hundred old, wealthy white men who are out of touch with reality, and don't realize that we(Generation Z and our child and so on), have to live with these decisions because they're a bunch of fucking imbeciles who are too far out of touch with reality. I saw we let them burn for their mistakes, and take back what is ours. People always say that we're the future, but we're here now. Our voices count, and we matter. This is our land, and this country was founded on revolution and blood, so lets start all over again. This country is fucked either way. We've spread ourselves out too thin, and have started to decay as a superpower. We as a country are behind educationally, economically, and our military is spread out so thin, we are weak on our home front. We need someone who can take charge, and get shit down. You wanted something done, you've got to do it yourself, so that's what I plan on doing. Fuck these idiots, and their damnation of us and our posterity.

EDIT: And of course I'm the only one who's voted for Authoritarian so far >,<

[Heald]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for killing babies, it's just allowing a woman a choice in the matter that I disagree with.

[Blademaster]

That actually IS a valid point that I rarely see addressed in these sorts of issues... The woman seems to have most of the say behind the end result. I get that the fetus is in HER body, but does the guy EVER have the final say? It's always either agreed upon mutually (the responsible[ish] couple way), or it's left to the woman's decision (the selfish bitch way). The guy was kinda part of this whole shebang, wasn't he? Doesn't HE get to make that choice, like, EVER? I'm not fluent in abortionology, but I don't believe it happens much since everybody favors the woman nowadays in our equal rights world.

[Deadwood_Zen]

But in the end, it results down to it being hey body. Even if you don't want it, and she does, then the baby lives and vice versa. Though to make a good point, especially since a lot of feminism today is borderlining sexism. Though don't get me wrong, I am all for equal rights for everyone(ex-Buddhist and recovering).

[Asilynne]

That is true Blade and Deadwood, and thats why I usually dont get along with feminists XD Because of them chilvary is dead! I mean yes of course Im a woman and I do believe in equality, how things were in the past where a woman was seen as just the homemaker and such is not how I want things to be, but I think somewhere along the line it got taken too far. Its like sometimes a guy is afraid to open the door for a woman because some of them are all like "I can open my OWN door I dont need some MAN to do it for me!" And damn man, its called being a polite and nice person XD I opened a door for a guy today, its just being nice no matter who you are.
Also a lot of feminists make being a housewife sound like a horrible fate and women who choose to be one are letting their gender hold them back, I think its a noble profession if thats what the woman wants to do, just like house husbands are ok if that arrangement works for that couple (I personally wouldnt want one but thats just me XD) But yeah to Blade's post Id be curious to see what happens in a situation like that.

[Deadwood_Zen]

Chivalry is also dead due to the current de-evolution of mankind. Parents can't seem to raise their children right(my are no different, I'm just smart enough to know better. Kids don't learn manners, and education has become a second-hand priority. We're being drugged by the mainstream media with glamour, fame and gossip, and responsibility has become of no importance to anyone anymore, it seems...

[Leon-IH]

Chivalry is also dead due to the current de-evolution of mankind.


No, Chivalry is dead because women killed it -- Marriage might as well be 'lose 10 years of your life and buy some bitch you hate a house'.

Mankind as a whole is doing just fine, but a good portion of the human race (the politically correct portion) needs a good swift kick up the arse to knock some sense into them.

[RedStarWarrior]

I dislike welfare in general. This isn't because I don't like helping individuals who are downtrodden, but rather that I don't believe the system is structured correctly. People who honestly deserve it struggle to get it, while others take advantage of it.

[Oslo]

Let's not confuse feminists with feminazis, though. The vast majority of feminists are not extremist ball-busters, but conversations on the subject (in my experience) often deride them as such. Saying feminism has gone "too far" just because there are a few whackjobs who brand themselves with that particular label undermines the integrity of the movement. Feminism and women's studies in general are absolutely fascinating subjects, but I'm tired of seeing conversations on the subject monopolized by criticism of a few fanatics.

I think Blade makes a good point. The man's role in abortion is not often discussed, which is tragic in its own way. Society expects the woman to have the final say, and maybe that's the way it should be, but imagine if the choice of whether your potential offspring lived or died rested almost solely in the hands of your partner. I don't think that society expects a man to mourn that loss in the same way that a woman would and, as such, a lot of men are probably forced to hide their grief to an extent if only to maintain appearances. Many might not even feel entitled to that emotion at all. Abortion would be difficult for a man in its own way.

[Heald]

I sympathise with points of view on men being ought to have a say in whether a woman has an abortion or not if they are the father (or believe they are anyway) but at the end of the day, as soon as one man has the legal right to force a woman to undergo a pregnancy, that is effectively slavery. Frankly, denying men the legal right to stop a woman from having an abortion is the lesser of two evils. It isn't like women are having abortions left, right and centre.

[Deadwood_Zen]

It all boils down to that it's her body, and just like no one can decide when you get your haircut, or a pedicure or whatever, its her decision.

[Oslo]

I can't imagine a world in which the decision of whether or not to abort a pregnancy didn't rest with the woman, but more social outreach and consideration of the man's interests would be welcome.

[RedStarWarrior]

I'm a feminist...

...in that I believe in equal rights for everyone.

My problem is that a lot of 'feminists' still believe in chivalry, a decidedly sexist practice in my opinion.

[Deadwood_Zen]

I think it's polite to treat a woman nicely. Though I once was raised as a good kid, believe it or not.

[Mew Master]

I ran into someone who beleived in Equal treatment of Men and Women, this meant he thought chivalry was sexist (or as he explained to me).

I do think women deserve some special treatment. I mean, after all, they walk around with another one of our species for 9 months of their lives before crapping it out.


Chivalry is also dead due to the current de-evolution of mankind.

But.... It. Er... Uh.... EVOLUTION DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT *strangle*

[Deadwood_Zen]

But.... It. Er... Uh.... EVOLUTION DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT *strangle*
Have you not taken a look outside in the world? This is supposed to be the greatest age of humanity, the height of science and technology, and all it's doing is brainwashing us and allowing us to be used as tools. Intellectually we are going down as a race. Sure some folks have achieved heights of brainpower unknown before, but the overall population is still degrading. We can't just stand here and allow this to be done. We need to fix this before something and fucking stupid as 'Idiocracy' becomes reality.

[Mew Master]

Have you not taken a look outside in the world?

Have you not considered the fact that I actually study evolution and thus know what it is and what it is not? Evolution does not "go backwards" it just keeps changing. What you're referring to isn't a biological issue, it's a cultural one. Oh, and it's funny that you'd compare us to animals (which is where I'm presuming you were going with this) when we ARE animals.


This is supposed to be the greatest age of humanity, the height of science and technology, and all it's doing is brainwashing us and allowing us to be used as tools.

I don't get how being "well informed" leads to "brainwashing." There's a difference here, however, in having the technology, and understanding what's going on. You can't force people to keep informed on politics, sciences, local events, and even history. Not in this day and age when information is a button click away, they'd just as Google it as learn it. This is our current culture. Everything at your fingertips, but no understanding how to use that information.

Cultural, not biological.


Intellectually we are going down as a race.

We're a species, not a race. And to follow up: Cite or GTFO.



Sure some folks have achieved heights of brainpower unknown before, but the overall population is still degrading.

Again, facts or GTFO.


We can't just stand here and allow this to be done. We need to fix this before something and fucking stupid as 'Idiocracy' becomes reality.

Be careful, or else you'll start sounding like a conspiracy theorist. And we all know how crazy those muthafuckers are.

So far what you're arguing against is the culture, and not the biology, and therefore not evolution. Now I can cite examples of actual evolution happening in our species, and it's doing some really funky stuff (AIDS resistant/immunity, women who can see in ultra violet, genetically resistant against heart disease, super dense bones, highly developed muscles [even at 4 years old]).

The culture, I agree, is too "info now, processing later," which is something that's the fault not of the society, but of the parents of the individuals who join the society, or the lazyness of their kids. Either or really.

[Blademaster]

Denny STFU with the semantics. That's MY job. Also, de-evolution totally does work. Need proof?

http://pokebeach.com/scans/base-set/72-devolution-spray.jpg

Also I think the whole "Women deserve special treatment because they carry babies." thing is bullshit. First off, they have that CAPABILITY. It's not like all of them do it. Secondly, a good chunk of them only do it out of stupidity. Does some booze-swilling slut that's not even out of high school yet deserve special treatment because her one-night stand's condom broke? Thirdly, I'm pretty sure that throughout his life, a man carries shit for his woman longer than she does for him, child included.

And yes, I AM really comparing carrying books, bags, boxes, furniture, and such to children on the grounds that most kids these days are about as intelligent/useful to the species as a suitcase anyway.

[RedStarWarrior]

I don't mind being chivalrous...so long as they don't mind me making $.50 extra per hour. It's not like I don't spend it on them anyway. ;)

This is a joke post, FYI.

[firepokemon]

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 3.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.15

[MToolen]

Economic Left/Right: -6.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.85

Too much to comment on and I'm almost late to see the wife, so just a quick bit on marriage:

Marriage has been cheapened out these days. College kids get married because they want to have sex without their parents harping on them about it; others marry someone they haven't known long, which only lasts as long as their initial puppy love does. I dated my wife for almost 6 years before I married her. That might've been a bit long (we were in 8th grade when we started, so I don't pay much heed to that), but I think it was all for the best. My pastor, who did our premarital counseling (which is an AWESOME idea, in case you were curious), put the emphasis on communication and not on a bunch of stupid questions we can figure out on our own (e.g., who does taxes and chores, have you had sex yet, who'll sleep on the couch). As long as two people take the time to think it through and realize that marriage is a lifelong commitment, then they'll either find the guts to talk things out or not get into it at all. That's why (in my opinion) the divorce rate is so high- no communication.

[Dryk]

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -3.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.28

On college kids getting divorced: here (http://www.divorcereform.org/nyt05.html)
What this article is saying is that while the crude numbers of divorce rates have been going down(this article is from 2005 by the way), since the 1980's the percent of kids in college getting divorced has gone down, along with those who attended grad school, which is much lower than the other numbers. While the article is from 05, I do not expect that the numbers have changed by too much over the years.
Although I do agree that communication is a large problem as to divorces.

As for kids getting dumber in the U.S., this is partially true. But, if we look at the kids who are going to lead us in the future, and the ones who are going to college(students living in suburbia), score nearly as well as the leader, Singapore. So your CEO will be smart. It's up in the air whether our bosses will be.
(This comes from Fareed Zakaria's Post-American World).