Hostage sitiuation at the Discovery Channel building

[Jeff]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/01/maryland-police-respond-hostage-situation-man-gun-enters-building/

I'm posting this not just because it's a local story that's gotten national attention, but mostly because of the reason the guy did this, and that is, well, he's nuts.

As proof, here are his demands:

http://savetheplanetprotest.com/



The Discovery Channel MUST broadcast to the world their commitment to save the planet and to do the following IMMEDIATELY:
1. The Discovery Channel and it's affiliate channels MUST have daily television programs at prime time slots based on Daniel Quinn's "My Ishmael" pages 207-212 where solutions to save the planet would be done in the same way as the Industrial Revolution was done, by people building on each other's inventive ideas. Focus must be given on how people can live WITHOUT giving birth to more filthy human children since those new additions continue pollution and are pollution. A game show format contest would be in order. Perhaps also forums of leading scientists who understand and agree with the Malthus-Darwin science and the problem of human overpopulation. Do both. Do all until something WORKS and the natural world starts improving and human civilization building STOPS and is reversed! MAKE IT INTERESTING SO PEOPLE WATCH AND APPLY SOLUTIONS!!!!

2. All programs on Discovery Health-TLC must stop encouraging the birth of any more parasitic human infants and the false heroics behind those actions. In those programs' places, programs encouraging human sterilization and infertility must be pushed. All former pro-birth programs must now push in the direction of stopping human birth, not encouraging it.

3. All programs promoting War and the technology behind those must cease. There is no sense in advertising weapons of mass-destruction anymore. Instead, talk about ways to disassemble civilization and concentrate the message in finding SOLUTIONS to solving global military mechanized conflict. Again, solutions solutions instead of just repeating the same old wars with newer weapons. Also, keep out the fraudulent peace movements. They are liars and fakes and had no real intention of ending the wars. ALL OF THEM ARE FAKE! On one hand, they claim they want the wars to end, on the other, they are demanding the human population increase. World War II had 2 Billion humans and after that war, the people decided that tripling the population would assure peace. WTF??? STUPIDITY! MORE HUMANS EQUALS MORE WAR!

4. Civilization must be exposed for the filth it is. That, and all its disgusting religious-cultural roots and greed. Broadcast this message until the pollution in the planet is reversed and the human population goes down! This is your obligation. If you think it isn't, then get hell off the planet! Breathe Oil! It is the moral obligation of everyone living otherwise what good are they??

5. Immigration: Programs must be developed to find solutions to stopping ALL immigration pollution and the anchor baby filth that follows that. Find solutions to stopping it. Call for people in the world to develop solutions to stop it completely and permanently. Find solutions FOR these countries so they stop sending their breeding populations to the US and the world to seek jobs and therefore breed more unwanted pollution babies. FIND SOLUTIONS FOR THEM TO STOP THEIR HUMAN GROWTH AND THE EXPORTATION OF THAT DISGUSTING FILTH! (The first world is feeding the population growth of the Third World and those human families are going to where the food is! They must stop procreating new humans looking for nonexistant jobs!)

6. Find solutions for Global Warming, Automotive pollution, International Trade, factory pollution, and the whole blasted human economy. Find ways so that people don't build more housing pollution which destroys the environment to make way for more human filth! Find solutions so that people stop breeding as well as stopping using Oil in order to REVERSE Global warming and the destruction of the planet!

7. Develop shows that mention the Malthusian sciences about how food production leads to the overpopulation of the Human race. Talk about Evolution. Talk about Malthus and Darwin until it sinks into the stupid people's brains until they get it!!

8. Saving the Planet means saving what's left of the non-human Wildlife by decreasing the Human population. That means stopping the human race from breeding any more disgusting human babies! You're the media, you can reach enough people. It's your resposibility because you reach so many minds!!!

9. Develop shows that will correct and dismantle the dangerous US world economy. Find solutions for their disasterous Ponzi-Casino economy before they take the world to another nuclear war.

10. Stop all shows glorifying human birthing on all your channels and on TLC. Stop Future Weapons shows or replace the dialogue condemning the people behind these developments so that the shows become exposes rather than advertisements of Arms sales and development!

11. You're also going to find solutions for unemployment and housing. All these unemployed people makes me think the US is headed toward more war.

Humans are the most destructive, filthy, pollutive creatures around and are wrecking what's left of the planet with their false morals and breeding culture.

For every human born, ACRES of wildlife forests must be turned into farmland in order to feed that new addition over the course of 60 to 100 YEARS of that new human's lifespan! THIS IS AT THE EXPENSE OF THE FOREST CREATURES!!!! All human procreation and farming must cease!

It is the responsiblity of everyone to preserve the planet they live on by not breeding any more children who will continue their filthy practices. Children represent FUTURE catastrophic pollution whereas their parents are current pollution. NO MORE BABIES! Population growth is a real crisis. Even one child born in the US will use 30 to a thousand times more resources than a Third World child. It's like a couple are having 30 babies even though it's just one! If the US goes in this direction maybe other countries will too!

Also, war must be halted. Not because it's morally wrong, but because of the catastrophic environmental damage modern weapons cause to other creatures. FIND SOLUTIONS JUST LIKE THE BOOK SAYS! Humans are supposed to be inventive. INVENT, DAMN YOU!!

The world needs TV shows that DEVELOP solutions to the problems that humans are causing, not stupify the people into destroying the world. Not encouraging them to breed more environmentally harmful humans.

Saving the environment and the remaning species diversity of the planet is now your mindset. Nothing is more important than saving them. The Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, Elephants, Froggies, Turtles, Apes, Raccoons, Beetles, Ants, Sharks, Bears, and, of course, the Squirrels.

The humans? The planet does not need humans.

You MUST KNOW the human population is behind all the pollution and problems in the world, and YET you encourage the exact opposite instead of discouraging human growth and procreation. Surely you MUST ALREADY KNOW this!

I want Discovery Communications to broadcast on their channels to the world their new program lineup and I want proof they are doing so. I want the new shows started by asking the public for inventive solution ideas to save the planet and the remaining wildlife on it.

These are the demands and sayings of Lee.


Yeah...

[Heald]

This represents one extreme end of the crazy scale. His goal is benign i.e. to limit the destructive impact and negative influence mankind is having on the planet, but his method, which includes both taking hostages and his so-called solutions to these problems, are completely terrible.

Also, why the Discovery Channel? Surely people who watch the Discovery Channel already know the impact humanity is having? Why not take Fox News hostage and force them to broadcast this stuff? It'd at least be better than the 24/7 entertainment and fiction they broadcast.

[Roy Karrde]

Apparently he choose Discovery because they were doing some kind of "Save the Earth" program a few years back, and he and other nut jobs decided to protest it as they were not showing enough radical things.

Apparently what drove him to be a nut job was some book with a talking Gorilla called Ishmael, And Al Gore's movie "An Inconvenient Truth"

[crown34]

This guy is is completly off his rocker. It's morons like these who give peaceful eviormentalists a bad name.

[Telume]

... I think he took 1 too many hallucinogens.

[crown34]

... I think he took 1 too many hallucinogens.
I'm sure that would be on his list of insane ramblings if he could edit it: Get rid of all the damm drug addicts.

[classy_cat18]

Why must we stop breeding? There's another way. I'm sure he's read A Modest Proposal.

*has guns pointing at her* KIDDING! KIDDING!

But honestly, this man was in serious need of help. Sure, the shows on TLC may encourage having more children than parents can manage. I'm against that show with the 18 children too. And we do have a problem with the population in some areas. His views were still extreme. Limit, don't prohibit. And anyone who takes the advice of a gorilla is not in his right mind.

[Deadwood_Zen]

This guy might seem a little extreme, to some, but I think he makes some very valid points. Plus, extremity is the only way to get shit done quick, no?

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Yes.

But also start getting a whole deal of haters.

With torches..

[Charles Legend]

What an Idiot, Ok bub let's get one thing strait you steeped way over the line with your rant there was not need to get your panties in a bunch, well it's kind of hard to do since by taking Advice from a gorilla got him a one way ticket to meet his Maker...

Now then while he dose have some what of a point about the environmental movement in my honest opinion both he and the moment are way out of line when calling babies parasitic humans, Babies are a gift from the Lord of host the Alpha and the Omega, who forms each and every child in the secret place.

What I ticks are any morons who threatens the life of babies inside their mothers womb which is meant to be a sacred and holy place, that's why I have a major problem with Abortion because it violates the covenant between men women and God, I'm refusing to sexual intercourse, since God Told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply.

Oh and be for you get ticked off at me it's a scientific fact that life begins when the sperm and egg join together in other words the conception is an act of creation.

Also in the book of Genesis God told Adam and Eve to look after the garden, now in the modem times his camament is echoed by environmental movement however what is missing from it is that like a lot of things in this fallen world it's not God centered like it should be.

Please take note I am not trying to shove my Religion down your guys throats I'm just expressing my opinion on the matter at hand that's all....

~Charles Legend

[Heald]

Please take note I am not trying to shove my region down your guys throats
That's good, I don't think I could fit the whole of Michigan down my throat.

[kazr]

If there is a nuclear holocaust caused by weapons of mass destruction or if the ice caps melt from environmental damage and there are massive floods the world isn't going to end, Earth is going to be just fine and will keep supporting life for billions of years to come. Humankind will end and we seem to be the issue in the first place so...

Problem solved.

[Charles Legend]

That's good, I don't think I could fit the whole of Michigan down my throat.

That's contently true but Michigan is not a Religion it's a region, Thought we do have a deity here called the Great Lynx that guards Copper...

~Charles Legend

[Rossymore]

At first glance I thought it read Disney Channel building. That'd be slightly more humourous.

But yeah, the only way to stop this whole human destruction thing on this planet is...erm...find a new planet?

Either that or we create a whole virtual reality and make the planet bigger and better, whilst the real planet becomes a lovely bowl of dust.

[Oslo]

At first glance I thought it read Disney Channel building. That'd be slightly more humourous.

Plus, it would make it totally hard not to sympathize with the whackjob, as I too have dreamt about running around the Disney Channel building with a gun screaming "HEY GUYS SERIOUSLY NO MORE JONAS BROTHERS OKAY >OO" in the hope of ushering our world into a new age of entertainment.


Civilization must be exposed for the filth it is.

Yeah, I think that show is called Dirty Jobs. *rimshot*

But really, there has to be some teensy part of this dude's brain that knows he's being hilarious. Or maybe I'm just morbid for giggling at "INVENT, DAMN YOU!!" and "and, of course, the Squirrels." If he weren't all crazy, I'd wanna have a beer with him is all.

[Katie]

i Too like to Capitalize random Words that are Not Proper Nouns when I try To Argue my ridiculous Opinions

[Blademaster]

What an Idiot, Ok bub let's get one thing strait you steeped way over the line with your rant

...He can't hear you.


Babies are a gift from the Lord of host the Alpha and the Omega, who forms each and every child in the secret place.

What I ticks are any morons who threatens the life of babies inside their mothers womb which is meant to be a sacred and holy place, that's why I have a major problem with Abortion because it violates the covenant between men women and God

RAPE.


it's a scientific fact that life begins when the sperm and egg join together in other words the conception is an act of creation.

You know, technically the egg and sperm are already alive... Just saying.

[Asilynne]

Wow... so basically this guys plan is:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2008/09/dah.originals.2.jpg

Anyway yeah...hes crazy as all hell. He also repeated himself way too many times, with all the 'filthy human babies' shit. I heard he chose Discovery channel because of all the shows like Kate plus 8 and the 19 kids and counting. I love babies but with the first one it was fertility drugs which I dont really like and the second one, DAMN how many is enough seriously lol But banning people from breeding is way too extreme.

Also has anyone seen the movie "12 Monkeys"? This guy probably has a little too many times XD

[abunaidesu]

Babies are a gift from the Lord of host the Alpha and the Omega, who forms each and every child in the secret place.



Oh and be for you get ticked off at me it's a scientific fact that life begins when the sperm and egg join together in other words the conception is an act of creation.


lol what

i suggest you stop trying to mottle your banal religious spiels with "scientific facts" because you are clearly retarded and lack the ability to comprehend such intricacies and logic

you see, in the science field we don't actually depend on "having faith" when faced with difficult questions.

~*abunaidesu*~

[Deadwood_Zen]

Faith can not be proven scientifically, and is thus redundant when used in an argument about science.

Damn, I wish this topic was in Mt. Moon. It's not the same talking about this in another sub-forum...

[Charles Legend]

Right you both are retards, why because you completely ignored the fact I was stating my option based on the fact that I am a young Earth Creationist and thus I have a Biblical worldview.

Also I find it so Ironic you say that since it takes a whole lot more faith to say that the universe bagan with a big bang or that lifr started as some primordial soup then it it is to say that "In the beaning God created the Heavens and the Earth." -Gen 1:1

Also the reason I strong oppose all forms of Abortion is that it is the modern day form of Child sacrifice to the gods of this world namely the demon horde and evolution and humanism.

~Charles Legend

[shazza]

Right you both are retards, why because you completely ignored the fact I was stating my option based on the fact that I am a young Earth Creationist and thus I have a Biblical worldview.


Just because your opinions have a religious label, it does not exempt others from disagreeing with your opinion and feeling free to voice said disagreement if they so choose. Your religious faith, especialy if you start inferring "scientific facts", should not be some shield of your opinions.

Faith is the antithesis of science: Science is currently our most reliable tool to provide evidence and proof of how the Earth and the Cosmos work. Faith is based on lack of evidence and proof, and simply a devoted belief based on sacred word (which I am not one to argue).

An atheist to argue with a young Earth Creationist will ultimately prove pointless, however when your Biblical worldview opinions differ from someone elses, they will and deserve to argue their own worldviews -- whatever they may be.

[Deadwood_Zen]

Also I find it so Ironic you say that since it takes a whole lot more faith to say that the universe bagan with a big bang or that lifr started as some primordial soup then it it is to say that "In the beaning God created the Heavens and the Earth." -Gen 1:1
Except at least the Big Bang theory has some evidence behind it. We're not saying, some dude who we dont totally know exists made us. That is an ignorant statement, as there is no evidence proving that your god exists. And if s/he/it is, why is s/he/it letting all this shit goi on in the world still happen?

[Asilynne]

Except at least the Big Bang theory has some evidence behind it. We're not saying, some dude who we dont totally know exists made us. That is an ignorant statement, as there is no evidence proving that your god exists. And if s/he/it is, why is s/he/it letting all this shit goi on in the world still happen?

Careful, or this will become a discussion about religion, and that is in no way what this topic is about.

That being said, I still have to correct you. The big bang theory is just that, a Theory, and to believe in that blinding is, in fact, having faith, when there are galaxies travelling in opposite directions. This in turn has spawned other theories in which there were multiple big bangs instead of just one, but as there is no way to really prove 100% or disprove 100% this theory, its an educated guess that has largely been accepted as fact. Yes there is no evidence that can be scientifically measured that God exists, but likewise there is no way to 100% prove that he does not, as there is always the possibility of things existing outside of our knowledge and understanding. Its ignorant to believe you know everything there is to know.

Anyway, Im not going to try to make either of you believe in anything, just trying to let you BOTH know, that you guys need to keep an open mind, and to get back on topic ^-^()

[Heald]

That being said, I still have to correct you. The big bang theory is just that, a Theory, and to believe in that blinding is, in fact, having faith, when there are galaxies travelling in opposite directions. This in turn has spawned other theories in which there were multiple big bangs instead of just one, but as there is no way to really prove 100% or disprove 100% this theory, its an educated guess that has largely been accepted as fact. Yes there is no evidence that can be scientifically measured that God exists, but likewise there is no way to 100% prove that he does not, as there is always the possibility of things existing outside of our knowledge and understanding. Its ignorant to believe you know everything there is to know.
The point is the BBT is still backed up by hard, scientific evidence that at least verifies its plausibility. The Creation story (of which in Genesis there are two, contradictory accounts of the Creation anyway), on the other hand, was largely plagiarised from an amalgamation of pre-Abrahamic cultures' various origin stories and is by no means originally a Jewish account of the world's creation. Of course, most Creationists have little to no understanding of theology and most of their faith is based on what their local church preaches, hence why there are large disparities across Christendom, even in local areas, over what the laws Christians are meant to follow.

[Asilynne]

Pst Heald thats not getting anything back on topic ^-^() I was trying to MAINLY let both the creationists and otherwise know that they dont know everything, so parading around their faith in facts or their faith in faith is pointless, at least in this thread >.>

[Heald]

To be honest this thread stopped being about a crazy dead guy ages ago and personally I'd rather let a thread run a course, even if off-topic, than to call a hiatus on all discussion, especially when the original topic itself has long expired in terms of interest. If people were still discussing the hostage situation, then I would put a stop to this, otherwise carry on.

Oh, and Charles Legend please don't call other members 'retards', since that is flat-out flaming and against the rules of Misc.

[Asilynne]

Well in that case, as far as the big bang theory goes, even with a mountain of evidence to support it, its still merely a theory since no one was actually there at the time to prove beyond any doubt it happened. You could make a statement about almost anything, and find facts that seem to prove you are correct, and yet still be wrong. I wrote my 11th grade persuasion paper with the statement "Dragons did at one time exist as real life creatures on earth" and found a lot of facts which supported my hypothesis. I received a passed advanced on it based on my facts and my reasoning, because they were enough to show it could have been possible.

Back to the big bang theory: this article is very helpful: http://www.big-bang-theory.com/

Am I arguing FOR creationism? Not really, or at least not in the sense many creationists who totally reject science would. Im willing to admit that I dont know for sure what happened, there are things in this universe (such as singularities, as in the above article) that we dont understand. We dont know where the matter in the big bang theory came from, we dont know why space started expanding even in our theory, and we can only be 'reasonably' certain that space is finite. We dont know what happened for sure, and that scares many people I think. That is why some cling to their bible for answers, while others cling to theories as the ultimate fact.

What I dont understand, and maybe its because I was never taught creationism is school, but what is so bad about believing in a higher force having created the universe? Science doesnt even know for sure how it happened, or what the 'universe' was like before there even was one, so I dont understand why people would be threatened by other people believing in that. I can understand being upset if they try to beat it into your head, but otherwise, whats the problem?

[Blademaster]

Right you both are retards, why because you completely ignored the fact I was stating my option based on the fact that I am a young Earth Creationist and thus I have a Biblical worldview.

Right you are a retard, why because you have a Biblical worldview see I can have shitty grammar and be insulting for no reason too. :P


Also I find it so Ironic you say that since it takes a whole lot more faith to say that the universe bagan with a big bang or that lifr started as some primordial soup then it it is to say that "In the beaning God created the Heavens and the Earth." -Gen 1:1

In the beginning I created everything.

That was even easier to say. MUST BE TRUE!


Also the reason I strong oppose all forms of Abortion is that it is the modern day form of Child sacrifice to the gods of this world namely the demon horde and evolution and humanism.

.......I have no words. I honestly don't.

[Magmar]

Geez, Charles, it's called an apostrophe. Are there old Biblical laws that have beef with apostrophes?

At any rate, my solution to overpopulation is that we should just breed more gays... Or invent a "gay shot" and give it to all the hot men.

[classy_cat18]

Or invent a "gay shot" and give it to all the hot men.

That'd just make women go to the next best thing -- geeky millionaires and anyone who can look good on the other side of beer goggles.

[Katie]

pet peeve: referring to scientific theories as "just a theory", as if the big bang is somehow on the same level as "my water glass that was on the table is now spilled on the floor, I have a theory that the cat knocked it over"

http://physics.about.com/od/physics101thebasics/a/hypothesis.htm
http://www.suite101.com/content/theory-vs--hypothesis-vs--law-a5522
http://wilstar.com/theories.htm

[Asilynne]

Very well.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/64893/big-bang-model

Its also called the big bang model, and even scientists refer to it as being "based on assumptions" by earlier scientists. Even if we knew for 100% certain that the big bang theory/model/what have you was correct, science still doesn't know how, or why, or what was here before it, or how the singularity got there in the first place. I know a lot of people tend to see science as the source of all the answers, but in reality it has its limits.

[shazza]

There is no denying that there are still a plethora of unanswered questions. We currently do not have a Darwinism equivalent to physics. But science is the most reliable tool we have so far. Just because it does not have all the answers does not mean that Creationism has exactly the same merit.

Science relies on evidence and truth to back up a theory. It is its own evolution, often disproving earlier ideas with more concrete facts. There is much evidence to support the Big Bang Theory.

It is pretty hard to gain facts about what happened before the big bang, for that is out of our spacetime and whatever occurred prior to then -- e.g. an earlier universe that culminated with a big crunch. Because we can't currently (and possibly ever) gain evidence for those answers does not mean it has the same credibility -- or lack thereof -- as a deity and Creationism.

Science is our most reliable tool to measure the Cosmos. It is a continuous process, and often contradicts itself. It wants the objective truth, which may very well counter our delusion that we have some special place or purpose in the Cosmos. To argue that it does not know everything means it automatically is as reliable and justifiable as faith and Creationism is extremely black and white thinking.

[Charles Legend]

To be frank I am not saying no evolution happen I'm just saying that I think a god started it, hell if you want me to be open mined about it it was the Grays, and that all the religious beliefs could very well stem from encounters of them in the past, one thing for sure a lot of regions around the world have the gods coming down to the earth from the heavens...

But yeah I sure hope some one finds all of the Original 13 Crystal skulls before December 21, 2012....

~Charles Legend

[Asilynne]

As long as people take science with a grain of salt, and realise that it IS always changing, and that the 'truth' science seems to prove is relative to our understanding at that current moment, then there are no problems. Its when people believe "well, a scientist said it so it MUST be true!" that I see as foolish, and really no different than the very people they criticise. Whether you blindly follow a scientists musings or a priests musings, you are still toting about that you are right, and anyone who has a differing view is wrong. These sorts of attitudes are what I consider black and white, and though, yes I am a christian, I dont think science and religion are as different as most tend to make them, one seeks the how while the other seeks the why.
As for the much evidence to support the big bang theory/model, there is also a lot of evidence to disprove it.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Indian-US-scientists-question-Big-Bang-theory/articleshow/5761894.cms Distant, old galaxies which are metal rich and therefore contrary to the theory.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3077357/ Dark matter is largely untouched upon in the big bang model.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060508_mm_cyclic_universe.html The Lambda, "vacuum energy" of space, is smaller than the big bang theory postulates.

There are also alternate theories which state the universe is not expanding but shrinking into one massive black hole at the center, multiple big bangs, a universe that is constantly reforming and destroying itself, and many more. All of these have some measure of 'proof' or 'evidence' that they could be correct.

But what one must remember most of all about science is not everything follows the rules. There are things in space that totally go against the laws of physics, and as we discover them it changes the science we once thought was the truth.

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/18841

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/35510

And here is a pretty interesting interview: http://discovermagazine.com/2009/sep/06-discover-interview-roger-penrose-says-physics-is-wrong-string-theory-quantum-mechanics

Lets not forget we once thought the truth was that the earth was flat, and the sun revolved around the earth, and now we look back upon that and think it silly. We must be prepared to accept that one day our descendants will laugh at our attempts to explain the universe. Thats not to say that we shouldnt try, or believe in the things we've discovered, but it should never be taken as the full and complete truth when there is no way to know for sure.

Also Charles Legend, you may not realise it but you are being made fun of a great deal. I dont really agree with you on a number of points but I also dont like to see someone being ridiculed :( Id recommend not posting in here anymore for your own benefit.

[Deadwood_Zen]

Yes, there is a Mt. Moon thread hating on Charles, but people on the internet can and will hate anything. I personally don't agree with him, on just about everything, but I won't go hating on you(at least not behind your back).


But yeah I sure hope some one finds all of the Original 13 Crystal skulls before December 21, 2012....
Is this sarcasm, or are you being serious? Either way, it's stuff like this that makes people want to make fun of you, and I'm not innocent either.

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Of course, most Creationists have little to no understanding of theology and most of their faith is based on what their local church preaches, hence why there are large disparities across Christendom, even in local areas, over what the laws Christians are meant to follow.

This.

Also, perhaps God started the Big Bang?^^

[Charles Legend]

Right you are a retard, why because you have a Biblical worldview see I can have shitty grammar and be insulting for no reason too. :P

In the beginning I created everything.

That was even easier to say. MUST BE TRUE!

.......I have no words. I honestly don't.Dude did you not hear what Heald told me so please stop calling me a retard here and else were on TPM other then in MT. Moon thank you. And far be it from me oh mighty Blademaster to burst your dream world Blade....


Yes, there is a Mt. Moon thread hating on Charles, but people on the internet can and will hate anything. I personally don't agree with him, on just about everything, but I won't go hating on you(at least not behind your back).

Is this sarcasm, or are you being serious? Either way, it's stuff like this that makes people want to make fun of you, and I'm not innocent either.

About freaking time it took long enough get there... -_-; I was being both Sarcastic and serious dude and have you ever herd about the Ancient astronaut theories?

~Charles Legend

[Deadwood_Zen]

Um, Mt. Moon is where the spam and swearing goes. Plus that topic was meant to have no intellectual value. This, however, is a debate, and you lowering yourself to call someone a
'retard' in a battle of the minds is already a sign of weakness, if not defeat.

[Blademaster]

Dude did you not hear what Heald told me so please stop calling me a retard here and else were on TPM other then in MT. Moon thank you.

I like how you can call people retards for no reason in spite of it being COMMON KNOWLEDGE that it's against the rules, yet when I do it to make a point as opposed to being insulting you suddenly turn and go "PLEASE DON'T BE MEAN TO ME ;_;". I didn't mean to be insulting, but nobody likes a hypocrite.


About freaking time it took long enough get there... -_-; I was being both Sarcastic and serious dude and have you ever herd about the Ancient astronaut theories?

You REALLY need to stop posting.

Also, on the whole science-versus-religion thing, ANY good scientist knows that science is right, at the most, maybe... 50% of the time. Science isn't about beating religion up like a defenseless puppy, it's about proving ITSELF WRONG TO GAIN CLARITY OF THE WORLD AROUND IT. We keep making new theories so we can improve our knowledge.

Religion on the other hand is a fucking standstill mentality that predicts the facts of the world around us maybe - MAYBE - 1% of the time. And that mentality of "DURR GOD MADE THE WORLD EVERYTHING I SAY IS RIGHT THIS IS RIGHT THAT IS EVIL LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOUR ARGUMENT HURR" is not something that changes. Religious zealots are as fucking stupid and stubborn as they were 2,000 years ago when they threw rocks at each other for believing in the wrong Invisible Man. So don't get on your soapbox and act all fucking pompous when even your more logical and more informed enemy can and will substitute, alter, or outright refute his own words with new ones based on actual EVIDENCE with each passing day.

[classy_cat18]

This.

Also, perhaps God started the Big Bang?^^

That's what I think. I just don't say it out loud at the risk of being called a Scientologist by people who aren't familiar with that particular religion.

[Mew Master]

About freaking time it took long enough get there... -_-; I was being both Sarcastic and serious dude and have you ever herd about the Ancient astronaut theories?

~Charles Legend

Heard em. Saw the 'evidence'. Realized they're pretty much complete and utter crap.

[abunaidesu]

so where did these astronauts come from? thin air?

and don't say god made them.

[Mew Master]

so where did these astronauts come from? thin air?

and don't say god made them.

The basic premise for the "Ancient Astronauts" claim is that humanity is fairly young, and in the 13.6 Billion years of the universe, there should be a high chance that a sentient race could have evolved somewhere else and then came to earth while humanity was still young and given us help.

However this is refuted by basic history, our achievements as a race, as well as the odds of there being intelligent life on other planets being astronomically low. I think it's the Drake Equation that comes up with this. There's like 100,000 planets which could have produced sentient life out there, among the Billions and Billions of stars.

Not to mention the reason.

Why would a hyper-intelligent race come to this back-water planet on the edge of a spiral galaxy and help us out? It just doesn't' make sense.

[abunaidesu]

That's the most retarded shit I've ever heard, although I'm not surprised that someone so stupid would find it riveting.

[shazza]

That's the most retarded shit I've ever heard, although I'm not surprised that someone so stupid would find it riveting.

:(

[chaos_redefined]

Asi: Science uses the word theory in a weird way. Since they can't prove the whole thing, it counts as a theory, but it may be possible to prove the crux of it. In the case of the big bang theory, it may be that they can't prove what was there before, but they can prove that the universe is expanding in such a way that it would have had to start from a singularity. Without knowing what scientists have actually done, I can't say either way. However, the scientific community has accepted the Big Bang theory without too much cause for concern. They accept it isn't proven, but they believe it to be so likely, that the possibiility of it not being the case is minimal.

So, this is the reasoning behind my "faith". I don't know the facts, but I believe that a bunch of people smarter than me have the facts. And so I put my faith in those people. If they suddenly find evidence that the Big Bang theory is false, then I will most likely change what I believe in as well.

Charles: So far, you've stated abortion shouldn't be performed for a bunch of reasons, some of which I sorta-maybe agree with (unborn life) and some of which give me a giant WTF?!?!?! (demonic sacrifice) However, blade raised a point that I have yet to hear an answer for: Rape victims. Let's say a woman is raped, and she is not in a situation to have kids. Furthermore, since the baby was born due to a highly unpleasant set of events, we can assume that she will most likely resent the child. In this situation, the child will be born in an environment not made to sustain it, and will be resented. This is hardly appropriate. It seems more reasonable to stop this from happening by ending the child's life before it's brain is fully developed and it is capable of knowing what is happening.

I'm gonna have to agree with Mew Master on the Ancient Astronaut theory. Mostly for another reason though: If aliens did visit earth, drop us here, and leave, then why is there so much evidence for evolution. While this fits in with my earlier statements on "faith", there is sufficient evidence that points to evolution that I have been able to read about that, for evolution not to be real, a large number of coincidences must have occurred. Furthermore, there would be evidence of something landing here that doesn't make sense. As Mew Master mentioned, our history is too consistent for this to be viable.

Finally, I'm also gonna have to agree with Blade on the issue of "This is easier to think about, so it must be the real answer." Occam's razor is limited in how far it can be applied, and this is one case where it doesn't work. Referring to all the evidence of Big Bang as coincidence or traps set by god to make us fall to hell just doesn't work...

[Mew Master]

Actually a theory is the highest standard in science that explains the data from thousands upon thousands of experiments. It is the closest thing one can get to 'proof' outside of mathematics.

Gravity is a theory.

It happens, that's the observation, but why and how it happens is the theory.

Evolution is a theory.

It happens, biological diversity, mutations, natural selection, genetic drift and gene flow happen, but why and how it happens is the theory.

Germs are a theory.

The fact that various strains of bacteria are detrimental to our health and can cause varying degrees of sickness happen, but how and why are the Theory.

Cells are the theory

That we can see cells on thin sections and even see them in larger tissue samples is the observation. The how and why are the theory.

I am annoyed by peoples frivolous use of the word "theory" as if it's some guess or conjecture by the populous. This isn't Hollywood Science Fiction, this. Is. SCIENCE!

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

Ofcourse, the theories are mostly correct, but not all theories are proven to be 100% accurate. I'm totally pro-science, don't get me wrong, but unless it's not proven 100%, christians have as much right to decline science as scientists can decline religion.

Theories are indeed theories (even evidence-based), but stay theories unless they can prove it completely.

I'm just saying that although science has loads of theories that are accepted by most people (including myself), it's not 'the truth'; and I can understand christians believing in their own stories. If it's proved, though, they have no excuse (nor do we if by any chance 'creation' is proved).

I'm just saying it's obvious to believe in science because it's most plausible theory (and also has loads of evidence), but that doesn't make it the 'truth'.

Also, fuck abortion-discussions.

[Mew Master]

Ofcourse, the theories are mostly correct, but not all theories are proven to be 100% accurate. I'm totally pro-science, don't get me wrong, but unless it's not proven 100%, christians have as much right to decline science as scientists can decline religion.

Science can never get 100% accurate, however it can be so certain, that it's 99.9999999999% accurate. Religion, however, doesn't even get close. It's 99.999% vs 0%.

Also, not ALL scientists are atheist, which is what it seems you're implying. Even within the Scientific community there is still a majority of scientists of various religions, however they are much more moderate than the right-wing nutters.

But. It's still a matter of. ALL of the evidence vs NO evidence. For Science vs Creationism respectively


Theories are indeed theories (even evidence-based), but stay theories unless they can prove it completely.

What do you mean by this? Do you think that Laws are above Theory in the scientific methodology? No. No they're not. The Laws of Gravity are within the encompassing Theory of Gravity, just like the Law of Monophylitic gradualism is a law of the Theory of Evolution. Your comment about "prove it completely" is also false. If you could prove it, to be 100% this way, and always THIS way, then it would cease to be Science.

As I said. Theories are as close to proof as we can get in science outside of mathematics.


If it's proved, though, they have no excuse (nor do we if by any chance 'creation' is proved).

If it was shown to be actual and accurate, then no, we'd have no excuse. However, in the 150 years of scientific work in the fields of Geology, paleontology, Biology, Genetics, Ecology, Chemistry, Physics, and Astronomy, the special creation of various cultures has been shown to have zero evidence to support it.


I'm just saying it's obvious to believe in science because it's most plausible theory (and also has loads of evidence), but that doesn't make it the 'truth'.

Then how else do you determine "the truth"? I find this a double-think statement and akin to "Science can't know the truth, even though the truth of our perceivable reality is found through observation of the natural world."

To know what is true, we must be certain of what we can discover. When scientific naturalism gives us discoveries that point us to the origins of ourselves, our planet, and the cosmos, we'd be fools to ignore this truth for favor of Bronze-age myths because they make us feel 'comfortable.'

"When you remove the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."

[MeLoVeGhOsTs]

I'm not gonna argue to much about this, I'm just saying science isn't the ultimate answer. And you're right, that wasn't your point in the first place, but it's my point.

I'm all pro-science, though, and there is no way I'm gonna believe that the earth is only 5000 years old and that dinosaurs lived together with humans and got washed away by some huge flood -___-

So yes, you're winning:D

[Heald]

Today's SMBC is incredibly relevant to this recent discussion:

http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20100908.gif

[Katie]

http://i55.tinypic.com/282nti8.jpg

[Blademaster]

"What'd the darkness do to your arm?"

FUCKING LOL.

[chaos_redefined]

Classical atom theory was a theory, mew master. And I'm pretty sure they treated it like we treat modern atom theory. I'm not saying that all theories are wrong. I'm saying that the major aspects of the theories are typically correct, and sometimes, scientists just put in something to explain the rest. Electrons do hang around the nucleus... but, it's explainable if we just say that they circle it. Sure, it turned out to be wrong. But, it helped explain everything else.

[Mew Master]

There are three different models for the atom, based off of their own theories, but none of which at 100% correct and can account for all the characteristics that the others can. Chemistry is just that fucked up.