post counts teleported away!

[Magmar]

Not that it particularly matters, but I noticed they're AWOL. What's up?

[Lady Vulpix]

It was a mod's idea (name somewhat withheld just in case he doesn't want his identity to be revealed).

He says it may encourage new members to post more. I can't imagine how one thing may lead to the other, but I'm willing to try the experiment just to see what happens, and how everyone reacts. You can still see your postcount on your profile if you want to keep track of it.

[mattbcl]

If that was the intent, it may have a certain brand of success. I'll admit it's a bit disheartening sometimes to see I've only posted 80-some-odd times whereas the veterans of the community register in the thousands or even tens of thousands.

[Ayeun]

Umm... Question. If we are removing the visible display of post counts, then what are you going to do about the display of pokeballs under our name (which relate to post count) and our trainer rank (which also relate to post count)?

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

We can still see them in a direct comparison in the Members List, too.

I myself feel my Oddish is a bit lonely with no longer my postcount near him. I guess I'll just have to get used to it.

[Drago]

I publicly disapprove of this idea. :D

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Already noticed a glitch, or something. There's also no longer the reply number in the top right corner of a post! By clicking it, it was so convenient to get a single post view. Now, I don't even know how to view only one post, I guess I'll have to find out the code myself. Hmmph! Now let's see. Like this:


http://www.pokemasters.net/forums/showpost.php?p=504471&postcount=48

So if I want to view only one post, I'll have to count! Count! Hmmmph!

[Oslo]

Yeah, I see your point, Mikachu. It's not quite the same, but you can still use the link that allows your browser to automatically scroll to the post you want. It's kind of similar and requires no counting. :)

Like this! (http://www.pokemasters.net/forums/showthread.php?p=505244#post505244)

I'm willing to entertain this experiment.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Aside from what I already complained in this thread, I don't like this. In my opinion, seeing the postcounts actually may encourage people to post. You can easily compare your postcount with other people and compete with both yourself and those near you. Posting begets more posting.

However, maybe that's just me, and why not try this for a week or two, and see what happens.

[Heald]

Aside from what I already complained in this thread, I don't like this. In my opinion, seeing the postcounts actually may encourage people to post. You can easily compare your postcount with other people and compete with both yourself and those near you. Posting begets more posting.
I'll come clean and say it was me who suggested it (although I only suggested it to promote a discussion on it, I didn't expect it to actually be actioned a few hours later with not really much of a discussion having taken place) and I don't feel strongly one way or another about it, although I will agree that this is definitely a temporary thing. I only want to see the effects more than anything.

I was actually hoping it would promote more constructive posts (my original intention has been lost in translation, plus I never really stated my intentions particularly clearly anyway). What you described in terms of competing with both yourself and the people near you is something I was actually hoping to discourage through this, as if you're posting more to increase your post count than to actually post useful/constructive/witty content, then quality will invariably suffer.

I don't like the lack of post numbers in threads though, if that is a necessary condition of removing post counts, I'll vote against keeping the post counts hidden.

The Pokeballs have been kept for personal milestones, as they encourage (especially new members) to post more in order to reach higher levels of Trainer. After you get 4 Pokeballs, the thresholds for 5, 6 and 7 are much higher, but 4 Pokeballs tends to be the benchmark in terms of establishing yourself as a member here.

[Lady Vulpix]

After tinkering with the templates a bit more, I've fixed that. Now the posts have numbers, but the members' postcounts don't show on the threads.

I agree with Heald about discouraging low quality posts made solely for the purpose of raising postcounts.

In any case, this is an experiment. I think we can keep it this way for a week or two, and see how things turn out.

Oh, as for Ayeun's question, I think the pokeballs are an important part of the board's look and feel. That is, the forums wouldn't look nor feel the same way without them. So those who like keeping track of their postcounts and watching how new pokeballs appear under their usernames will still have that even while the postcounts themselves are hidden. Not completely hidden, though. You can still find them if you want to, they're just not displayed on the posts.

[Blademaster]

I can't imagine how one thing may lead to the other


I publicly disapprove of this idea. :D


I don't like this.

All this.


I think we can keep it this way for a week or two, and see how things turn out.

Not this.

[firepokemon]

Does not matter me and my several deleted accounts have over 15, 000 posts and then some so I feel superior anyway.

[firepokemon]

The social group is: http://www.pokemasters.net/forums/group.php?groupid=32

Need new members now.

[Mew Master]

Nerd Rage Much fp?

[mattbcl]

Agree with Mew Master. The absence of a number that declares how many posts I've offered this place from my every post is hardly a big deal. It's still in my profile, I can go stare at it anytime I want. People will still know I'm a Bug Catcher from the single Poke Ball on my belt and they'll still know Blade is a cheating cheater with the seven he's got on his.

[Charles Legend]

I did not even notice that they vanished from the threads, to be frank about it some of you are getting upset about a freaking number, I'm sure many of you may be surprised to here that I support the Idea of the post counts in the topic being hidden.

Hum I wounder in Edit Options wouldn't be possible to add the option to show post counts visa the Visible Post Element category?

Of co0urse this is just a suggestion and I have no clue if it can actually be pulled off but if it can I think it would be a good Idea.

~Charles Legend

[Drago]

...That would appear to defeat the purpose.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Hum I wounder in Edit Options wouldn't be possible to add the option to show post counts visa the Visible Post Element category?

I tried to think what this would result in, but became very confused.

Now let's assume I choose to let myself see the postcount. Whereas you Charles Legend decide not to see it. Then I can think hehe, there's Charles, he doesn't even see what my postcount is without looking at my profile. I see he has posted less than me, hehe. Now what does Charles think? Poor Mikachu, he thinks he's so cool just because he has chosen to see the postcount. Also this would lead to some useless discussion like let's do a poll: do you have the postcount visible? Yes or no? And in a newbie topic, welcome to TPM, did you know you can have your postcount visible? Look at that fellow, I think he doesn't see the postcount.

I'm still confused. Very confused. Should go to sleep already.

[Mew Master]

Mikachu... did that even make sense?

[Heald]

As Magmar mentions in fp's group, I agree that after this trial period any decision to make it permanent should be held in public.

[Blademaster]

to be frank about it some of you are getting upset about a freaking number

Yeah, that's not at all worse than the stupid shit YOU get uppity about... :rolleyes:

[Lady Vulpix]

I guess we can use this thread as a discussion topic and base the final decision on the results of this discussion.

[midnightangel]

Personally I don't care where my postcount is--so long as I am able to be here, visit and post on occasion. So why do so many people here have their drawers in a twist over their postcount? It's quite annoying. :P

[Magmar]

In a way, having your post count on your profile is a bit like walking around on a college campus with t-shirts saying how many credits you've got. It may make freshmen feel a bit awkward and undervalued; it may cause people to attempt more credits simply in order to fit in without regard to their content and progress. However your Poke balls are like your class rank, which is something people can appreciate at a very basic level without regard as to, say, whether Mikachu or I are a better member because we have nearly the same number of posts.

Back to literal TPM, in the member's list, you can also search by member number, which I suppose puts a bit more weight on "veteran" status than just a post count. I prefer that list, wonder why ;)

[Asilynne]

I'm ok with it staying gone, I never cared how many posts I have since I would post the same regardless if anything was keeping track or not. Doesn't change anything for me :D

[Drago]

Maggy, can you edit the OP to include a poll?

[Becky]

I don't have any feelings one way or another about my post count. I'm new, but I generally feel like TPMers have been welcoming, so it hasn't been something I worry about much. I do think it's impressive how many members have a long history here, so it's interesting to see how their time spent correlates with number of posts.

Beyond that, I don't really have the perspective to say :)

[Ayeun]

Taking in to account the logic put forward, and the fact that the only sound complaint we had was the inability to link posts, which was fixed, I have no problem with this staying as is. As such, I have left the group that was formed, and wish to place myself in the 'don't care etherway' basket.

[Charles Legend]

...That would appear to defeat the purpose.you could say the same thing about the ability to Show Signatures, Show Avatars and Show Images (including attached images and images in [IMG] code) but we have them.



I tried to think what this would result in, but became very confused.

Now let's assume I choose to let myself see the postcount. Whereas you Charles Legend decide not to see it. Then I can think hehe, there's Charles, he doesn't even see what my postcount is without looking at my profile. I see he has posted less than me, hehe. Now what does Charles think? Poor Mikachu, he thinks he's so cool just because he has chosen to see the postcount. Also this would lead to some useless discussion like let's do a poll: do you have the postcount visible? Yes or no? And in a newbie topic, welcome to TPM, did you know you can have your postcount visible? Look at that fellow, I think he doesn't see the postcount.

I'm still confused. Very confused. Should go to sleep already.

Har har vary funny Mikachu, but like I said in my previous post I did not even noticed my post count vanish until someone invited me to the
firepokemon's group who I have no clue to be frank I'm fine with the post counts hidden however I suggested it become an option to appease both sides of the debate.

on a side note to this topic is a related topic I been meaning to say I seem to recall the users here had the abilty to check there Statistics and by that I mean they were able to check what hour of the day they most offen posted at, to be frank I found that to be more useful then pdeplaying post counts


Yeah, that's not at all worse than the stupid shit YOU get uppity about... :rolleyes: Blade if you want to complain about my rants go to the Moon I'll even pay NASA to fly you there. :cawg: but realy Blade I noticed how recently there has been a lot of talk about Post counts and well you just so happened to be one of them.

Ok while I do acknowledge post counts frankly I don't care about them just like I don't care about my score in the ASB in both cases I don't see the point other then Bragging rights which is kind of stupid recuse then you just sound like a jerk with a big ego.

However I do see why you guys don't like the Idea hence why I suggested make it an option.

~Charles Legend

[Drago]

Ok, let me simplify this for you: Heald believed that if people couldn't see their post counts on posts, they wouldn't make shit posts for the sake of boosting their postcount. If people have the option to leave their postcounts visible, then the postcount boosters will still make shit posts for postcount.

Hence your idea defeats the purpose of the experiment. That is the last I am going to discuss on this project. Hopefully.

I'll see y'all when the trial period ends.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Has this been tried here in TPM before by the way? I don't remember. What about other message boards with this practice? Of course, it's hard to compare the current situation with TPM's past, let alone another forum.

[Mew Master]

IT doesn't really matter for me,one way or the other. Sometimes the post count does show up easier than pokeballs when you see someone new. But other than that, I have no opinion one way or the other.

Just for fp to stop nerd-raging. :D

[Mew Master]

OMG... did Blade actually approve of something I've said? This is a first.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

The only benefits I can see are that newbies/more silent members can't feel so embarrassed/depressed anymore because they can no longer directly see postcounts, but are they really embarrassed/depressed? When I had like 600 posts in 2004, I don't remember being particularly depressed or anything. I was anxious in the good meaning of the word and couldn't wait for being in Members List page one one day.

[chaos_redefined]

OK... Just to check this, has anyone actually felt embarrassed by their low postcount when they are new to a forum? Similarly, has anyone ever treated someone differently because of their postcount?

While I don't care about the changes, I am against it if it doesn't do anything.

[papabopp]

...I miss my postcount...

[Gavin Luper]

I don't approve of this either. I don't think postcounts deter people from making posts at all - it certainly never deterred me when I was a newbie. In fact, the ability to slowly build your post count and climb those little rungs was an incentive to keep posting and stay active.

Even now, I was looking forward to reaching the next little milestone, to be honest.

In the absence of any real evidence to suggest we'll get more activity out of this, and given the fact that, small though it is, it's pissed me off, I'm definitely against this and will be against it when this random trial ends.

[Lady Vulpix]

OK, I've added a poll so that everyone's votes can be seen more clearly and counted more easily. You're still encouraged to post your reasons, though.

[Drago]

Does this poll override the other one? (http://www.pokemasters.net/forums/showthread.php?t=22636) Because that was due to close in two days, mon amie...

[Lady Vulpix]

Oh, I hadn't seen that one. I'm having connection problems and only got to see that people kept posting here.

Well, then, let's keep the old one even though it's anonymous and doesn't leave room for a 3rd option, just because it was posted first.

...Or we can keep both and see if the results match.

[Drago]

My only concern with this one is the 'don't care' option, as it feels redundant to me. If they don't care, then their vote doesn't really make a difference, y'know?

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

It's part of the principles of democracy that one may abstain. Usually this is accomplished by not voting at all, though, so I agree with DragoKnight.

[Lady Vulpix]

There's a difference between expressing that either way works for you and not bothering to vote/not noticing the poll. We can get a better idea of how representative the poll is if those who abstain and those who do not participate in the poll are not grouped together.

[Drago]

But we either are or are not going to have the post counts hidden. There is no third result stemming from people who are indifferent. You don't go to vote for president and submit a ballot of 'I'm fine either way'.

[Mew Master]

But we either are or are not going to have the post counts hidden. There is no third result stemming from people who are indifferent. You don't go to vote for president and submit a ballot of 'I'm fine either way'.

Sure you do. It's called the Independent Party :X

[Lady Vulpix]

No, independent parties are other options. The "don't mind either way" option is the blank vote (empty envelope) or the null vote (an envelope with anything other than the official ballot, which usually means you don't like any of the options). It's not the same as not voting at all.

[Magmar]

But how would their votes even count? Honestly, we just did a poll in which enough people who seemed to care responded. This is redundant.

[Heald]

On a statistical point, null, don't care or don't know votes are important if you are trying to gauge a broad spectrum of opinion. This is, for example, used when polling the approval rating of politicians, where people are asked options like approve, unsure or disapprove, since it is accepted that some people will neither strongly approve or disapprove of a politician's performance at a given time.

However, in this case, we are clearly trying to determine whether we want to keep post counts invisible or not. The 'don't care' vote is completely pointless here; we are not trying to gauge opinion here, we are trying to make a decision whether or not to keep posts counts invisible or not. Knowing how many people don't care cannot possibly aid the decision-making process here, since, if we're doing this democratically, surely whichever of yes and no gets more votes will be the decision taken. You might find it interesting, yes, but for the decision making here it serves absolutely no purpose and effectively means you haven't voted at all since your vote will not count whatsoever in the final decision.

[Shadow Wolf]

Sorry if this sounds confusing, but let me put it this way:

1-The people who vote "yes" want the posts to be displayed.

2-The people who vote "no" do not want the post to be displayed

3-The people who vote "don't care either way" are because: A-They feel comfortable with or without posts. B-They have reasons to vote for yes, but they also have reason to vote for no. In any of those cases, they took their time to read this and give their opinion in a vote, thus they cannot be discounted.

4-People who didn't vote: A-They don't want to vote. B-They don't care about this post thread, probably because they do not consider it important. C-They haven't read this thread.

See the difference now?

[Ayeun]

But how would their votes even count? Honestly, we just did a poll in which enough people who seemed to care responded. This is redundant.


No, independent parties are other options. The "don't mind either way" option is the blank vote (empty envelope) or the null vote (an envelope with anything other than the official ballot, which usually means you don't like any of the options). It's not the same as not voting at all.


On a statistical point, null, don't care or don't know votes are important if you are trying to gauge a broad spectrum of opinion. This is, for example, used when polling the approval rating of politicians, where people are asked options like approve, unsure or disapprove, since it is accepted that some people will neither strongly approve or disapprove of a politician's performance at a given time.

However, in this case, we are clearly trying to determine whether we want to keep post counts invisible or not. The 'don't care' vote is completely pointless here; we are not trying to gauge opinion here, we are trying to make a decision whether or not to keep posts counts invisible or not. Knowing how many people don't care cannot possibly aid the decision-making process here, since, if we're doing this democratically, surely whichever of yes and no gets more votes will be the decision taken. You might find it interesting, yes, but for the decision making here it serves absolutely no purpose and effectively means you haven't voted at all since your vote will not count whatsoever in the final decision.

As one of those who voted for the 'dont care' vote, I feel that my vote DOES count...

Basicly what I was saying with my vote is this issue is not going to affect me in any way. The only thing it DID affect has been adjsuted, and beyond that, I don't care.

[Drago]

Which is all very interesting, but ultimately can be expressed through posting. Anyhow, whatever. The option is there, and people are using it. So be it.

[Heald]

It's because people are stupid and don't appear to understand simple logic functions.

Which isn't something we didn't already know.

You might as well have put an option 'I prefer grilled cheese to post count visibility' because, well, why discount the votes of those who perhaps do prefer grilled cheese?

[Ayeun]

It's because people are stupid and don't appear to understand simple logic functions.

Which isn't something we didn't already know.

You might as well have put an option 'I prefer grilled cheese to post count visibility' because, well, why discount the votes of those who perhaps do prefer grilled cheese?

I love grilled cheese sandwiches, Heald. But that is not relevant.

What IS is the fact that I don't care. Maybe it is a boy thing, but I don't care how *BIG* my post count is, nor do I look down on people with *SMALLER* post count's than I do.

[Lady Vulpix]

What Ayeun said, grilled cheese is not relevant to the topic.

[Drago]

Analogy (from Greek "ἀναλογία" – analogia, "proportion"[1][2]) is a cognitive process of transferring information or meaning from a particular subject (the analogue or source) to another particular subject (the target), and a linguistic expression corresponding to such a process.
Ironically, grilled cheese wasn't relevant to Heald's argument, either. More ironically, y'all are reading into the grilled cheese thing as being irrelevant, when it'll make just as much difference as people who vote 'don't care'.

This is fun. :)

[Mew Master]

Well you big babies got your postcounts back. Stop crying. Lol.

[Oslo]

Well you big babies got your postcounts back. Stop crying. Lol.

This.

[Lady Vulpix]

Ironically, grilled cheese wasn't relevant to Heald's argument, either. More ironically, y'all are reading into the grilled cheese thing as being irrelevant, when it'll make just as much difference as people who vote 'don't care'.

This is fun. :)
No, it won't, because - unlike grilled cheese - people not caring is relevant to the topic. You may not want to know who cares and who doesn't, but others do. I do, and I believe so do the others who voted for that option.

[Shadow Wolf]

Well you big babies got your postcounts back. Stop crying. Lol.

I can't stop laughing at this. In any case, I think this is done for the time being.

[Heald]

No, it won't, because - unlike grilled cheese - people not caring is relevant to the topic. You may not want to know who cares and who doesn't, but others do. I do, and I believe so do the others who voted for that option.
It's relevant to the topic, but not to the decision making. If you put an extra option for grilled cheese, both the grilled cheese votes and the don't care votes will have exactly the same impact on the final decision i.e. none.

Post counts are back anyway, so who cares.

And I'm nearly at 8000 posts w00t better post 10 more times to get there!

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Another win for democracy - a functioning referendum here at TPM!

[Blademaster]

You probably have a funny definition of the word 'democracy.'

[Lady Vulpix]

Well, people have voted and what the majority chose has been done.