OFFICIAL POLL: Post-Count Visibility

[Magmar]

I tried to edit my original post to include a poll; however, it seemed that the deadline for the edited addition of a poll has come and gone.

The question is: Do you believe post-counts should remain visible beneath your user-name in regular forum posting, or should they remain hidden and visible only via the User CP and members list?

The argument for maintaining hidden post counts is that it will increase forum activity and promote quality posting while diminishing inequity from new members to veteran/frequent posting members.

The argument against hiding the post counts is that it will reduce the quality of the forums and that the benefits of hiding post counts are not sufficient to justify hiding them.

The neutral argument is that post counts do not matter. An alternative standpoint has been that the general membership should have the democratic opportunity to select whether or not they would like post counts to be visible, or remain hidden.

Therefore, I have eliminated the neutral argument from the poll options. There is no "neutral" option. Members must select whether they are for or against the hiding of post counts.

If the poll is vague or unclear, please indicate so. Mods & such, you have the authority to modify this poll or post to best communicate to the general membership what I am trying to convey. If you do so, please indicate as such, so that all members can benefit from knowing how to present a quality debate before the general membership.

Your vote is cast by secret ballot. Unless I can somehow see the results by being the original poster, they should be hidden and I'm not going to seek a way to view the results.

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Discussion can continue in this thread. Let's have a great debate.

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This poll will end on Tuesday, July 5 which is also my birthday ;). You have ten days. Vote!

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I'm going to amend this post to include a couple of basic rules, which I believe are in-line with the general forum terms and conditions:
1.) Do not post brief responses that do not add to the quality of the debate. If you are unable to articulate your beliefs on this issue, then do not post them at all.
2.) Do not use this thread as an opportunity to attack those who spearheaded the initiative to hide the post counts. Keep that discussion to private messaging. Those who decided to hide the post counts are active contributors to the forum who will most likely be available to answer your queries.
3.) Do use this thread as your opportunity to voice your opinion in such a way in which all members are equal as we all have exactly one vote.
4.) Do not use Water Gun, Hydro Pump, Surf or any other Water-type attack moves on the Magmar :v

[nsmbwii]

Meh, I don't really care to much about the post-count. I think it would be alright to keep it invisible on regualar posting, as you can just check it on your profile.

[Toucan Sundae]

You know what? You know what? I'd like to see a Post Count!

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

To make my opinion clear, I'll copypaste some of what I said in the other thread.

"I don't like this. In my opinion, seeing the postcounts actually may encourage people to post. You can easily compare your postcount with other people and compete with both yourself and those near you. Posting begets more posting."

"The only benefits I can see are that newbies/more silent members can't feel so embarrassed/depressed anymore because they can no longer directly see postcounts, but are they really embarrassed/depressed? When I had like 600 posts in 2004, I don't remember being particularly depressed or anything. I was anxious in the good meaning of the word and couldn't wait for being in Members List page one one day."

Also, to the "it's just a number"-debate. There certainly is a reason why the postcount is assumed to be visible in the forum options. As for myself, Postcount is an indicator of activity together with the Posts Per Day in the profile. It has been visible for ages, why should it change now? Especially taking into account that new members are still popping out of nowhere and joining our glorious message board.

[Dark-San]

Franky I don't care a hoot of the post counts. And it is not like the veterans will be using the numbers to flaunt around. If you guys want to stick with it or put it up again, by all means feel free. But do keep Heald's advice in mind that some new members might feel a little intimidated when they see the huge post counts. So that might be the factor you would want to consider the most before you guys make any final decision.

BUT the pokeballs stay. Do not remove it at any cost. :)

[Blademaster]

POSTCOUNT NAO PLZ

[Cynder]

I'm fairly neutral on the subject, but now that they're gone I seem to find myself looking at random profiles to see the postcounts. Don't even ask why. Plus, I just got over 500 posts, and that's the most I've had on any forum, like, ever. I'm never normally an active poster :P

[kurai]

i really do not think the absence or presence of a postcount field will have any substantial effect on the equity perceived by new members given that the scaling titles remain, there are exclusive forums, and old members have up to an unassailable decade of association with each other.

nonetheless even though there is some reward in seeing one's growth in a quantifiable format, this is probably inferior to the qualitative social integration which should be sought in a true community.

but there is not much (or any) evidence to suggest one or the other option would reach the stated goal of "more posts". most of the posts i make now do not even count, and other external forums have succeeded with not only postcount-neutral but username-anonymous methods.

overall this seems like a non-issue but the removal of any of the junk from the name pane on the thread display is an aesthetic improvement (and so i voted for hiding).

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Franky I don't care a hoot of the post counts. And it is not like the veterans will be using the numbers to flaunt around. If you guys want to stick with it or put it up again, by all means feel free. But do keep Heald's advice in mind that some new members might feel a little intimidated when they see the huge post counts. So that might be the factor you would want to consider the most before you guys make any final decision.

BUT the pokeballs stay. Do not remove it at any cost. :)

Well I see three 'newbies' have posted in this thread. nsmbwii and Cynder are for the neutral approach and Toucan Sundae would want to see the postcount. I don't know if it counts, it's difficult for a veteran to look at the picture, let alone a new member, but this leads to my next argument.

Something I haven't mentioned already, although it might be visible from my comments: those behind the current situation, don't you think you're underestimating us? Are TPMers really like machines that stop posting because they see a huge numeral difference between their and someone else's postcount? Or do they spam like no tomorrow just to see a huge Postcount under their avatars. There sure are another reasons for spamming than just increasing Postcount, like 'attention-whoring', channeling anger by flaming, and so on, I bet you know more than me.

And I agree with Dark-San there, PokeBalls symbolize TPM and our love to Pokemon, regardless of that many of us don't like Pokemon that much anymore.


i really do not think the absence or presence of a postcount field will have any substantial effect on the equity perceived by new members given that the scaling titles remain, there are exclusive forums, and old members have up to an unassailable decade of association with each other.

nonetheless even though there is some reward in seeing one's growth in a quantifiable format, this is probably inferior to the qualitative social integration which should be sought in a true community.

but there is not much (or any) evidence to suggest one or the other option would reach the stated goal of "more posts". most of the posts i make now do not even count, and other external forums have succeeded with not only postcount-neutral but username-anonymous methods.

overall this seems like a non-issue but the removal of any of the junk from the name pane on the thread display is an aesthetic improvement (and so i voted for hiding).

Yep, you got it right, I'll still feel inferior to Hanada Tattsu, in one sense, I couldn't keep up with that fellow when we both were trying to keep Pokemon Anime alive. Hanada used to post every second post there. I still feel inferior to you kurai, although our Postcount difference is not that big, you manage to post quality posts time after time. And your history here at TPM is more interesting. I feel inferior to Blademaster, he has posted so many great posts and is ahead of me in Postcount, although he joined a lot later than me.

So there are other indicators and factors that make us feel inferior to each other so Postcount is not everything. Many of your words there could be used both for and against the change.

But in my opinion, having the postcount under the avatar is aesthetically more appealing!

[ChobiChibi]

See, my post count is quite low for someone who joined 8 years ago, and especially compared to other mods... But that's cos I spent most of my time in RPG and only surfaced from there a couple of years ago XP

But I too miss the aesthetics. Don't really care how many posts I have, but now it kinda looks naked over there D:

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Just posting to point out I think I misread most of kurai's post. However, I said what I thought.

[Blademaster]

Don't really care how many posts I have, but now it kinda looks naked over there D:

And this is a problem for YOU because...?

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm still thinking about a good reason as to what do I gain or lose from having my post-counts visible or not.

Considering that I log in every one or two hours a day...

If I see my post counts... then what does it mean? That I have to log in to TPM and post at least one post every minute so I can see my post count raise and reach other members who... with two words per post, they make their post count skyrocket? That's chaotic.

And what does exactly having my post-counts visible benefit myself... let's see..

"Oh, there's Shadow Wolf... how many post does he have? aprox. 1500? What about mr_pikachu... oh wow... he has over 10000 posts. Then that means mr_pikachu is better than Shadow Wolf. Well, I better make friendship with mr_pikachu because he has more posts than Shadow Wolf"

But the way I'm seeing this things, I feel like people arguing over their posts removed are feeling much like they stole something from them (It's like a mom who, organizing her son's room, takes the toys on the floor and puts them in the toy box. Then...

Kid: Mom, where did you put my toys
Mom: In the toy box honey
Kid: BUT MOM, I WANT MY NEIGHBOR TO SEE MY TOY WHEN HE ENTERS MY ROOM!
Mom: Then he can see them if you show them your toy box. Besides, you can still use the toys.
Kid: NO, I WANT HIM TO SEE IN MY THE FLOOR OF MY ROOM, NOT ON THE TOY BOX.)

That's pretty much how I see this. I honestly think that if either posts are visible or not, I will not gain anything.

PS: Magmar, can I use water sport?
...just kidding, jajajajajaja

[ChobiChibi]

And this is a problem for YOU because...?

Sometimes it's not good to be naked D:

[Katie]

the poll isn't even accurate. postcounts are not hidden, you just have to go to a different page. and it wasn't changed based on what members wanted like the current poll suggests, it was changed based on how they wanted members to act. how about we change the poll to "will you change your posting habits if postcount is displayed on a different page" and skip straight to the point of the change.

no, I will not change my posting habits because I can still boost my postcount if I want to. I seriously doubt anyone will be more active because there isn't a number under their name. if someone gets their panties in a twist because I have 3000 more posts than them then they can just get the fuck over it and try to keep up if they feel it matters. just ban the people who post stupid replies and then we won't have any stupid postcount++ replies! can we start with blademaster?

[Blademaster]

You wish. I'm too important to this place to ban.

[Heald]

Confession: I actually only suggested it on a whim. Any reasoning behind affecting posting habits was a smokescreen.

Although I have to admit I am enjoying the delicious tears of those begging for the post counts to be returned.

[Fett One]

Whether they are displayed under your name or not doesn’t really bother me. I didn’t even notice they were gone until I saw people discussing it.

With that being said I think the post counts should remain visible under your name. After all, the ranks are still visible so we know how many post at a minimal that each person has. Plus the join date is visible so we can tell the new guys apart from the old timers. So any perceived intimidation from the newbie’s would still be there, since they will know who the old timers are and how many posts minimal they have.

Also, if anyone is truly interested in knowing what a persons post count is all they have to do is check out the member list. For example I just found out that Mikachu Yukitatsu (not trying to pick on you Mikachu) has a post count of 6,039. Being able to look this up kind of defeats the purpose of hiding the posts counts from under your name, since we can still find out what each person has.


In all honestly this looks like someone tried to fix a problem that should have been fixed years ago but no longer needs to be fixed because it eventually resolved itself. That’s my two cents.

[Magmar]

I don't think there's nearly enough of us for this to even be an issue. That being said, the poll closes in four days.