Shooting in Colorado (and Video Game Violence)

[MToolen]

Gunman kills at least 12 in movie theater at "The Dark Knight Rises" screening in Aurora, Colorado (http://boingboing.net/2012/07/20/gunman-kills-at-least-12-in-mo.html)

I'm actually surprised this hasn't been discussed yet. I wasn't at a midnight showing, but this news is just debilitating, to think that someone would be willing to carry out such monstrosity.

But what really gave me the gumption to post about it was a Facebook friend of mine, a man I usually have the highest regard for, who posted this:


Regarding the horrible shooting at the Aurora Co. movie theater last night - I'm going on record as saying that I think this new style of purposeless, random, spectacular murder is somehow tied to the emergence and acceptance of video games that feature the same sort of violence. Have you seen some of the video games that feature the ability to randomly shoot anybody that your character encounters? You know, even I got a little excited when video games like Medal of Honor came out some years back. Amazing technology. But the mission of those games seemed reasonable enough, or at least framed the process of shooting another character within a psychology that we can understand. Your character is typically on the ground as an infantryman in a war. There's the enemy. Shoot them to survive and win. It's an ageless scenario of war. But good grief, some of the games now where your gun wielding character is wandering the streets shooting cops, pedestrians, and anyone else that may come along must certainly desensitize our youth to the value and preciousness of any and all human life.

Maybe, as a gamer, I am taking this a bit close to heart, but that just hurts. And it makes as much sense to me as if we were to say he was left-handed or played tennis, and that those things caused a dozen people to lose their lives instead of the choices of a single individual.

I suppose I need to direct this topic somewhere. If you have more up-to-date sources, please share them. What reactions do you have? What reactions have you seen in your social circles that strengthened or weakened your faith in humanity? Discuss, please.

[Knight of Time]

I saw the story...it definitely makes me wonder just what is going on in the head of the guy responsible.

But that's not all; I heard that one of the victims was connected to a similar shooting in Toronto, ON (this young woman named Jessica Gwahi barely survived the shooting at the Eaton Centre, only to be killed in this shooting).

I mean, to survive one shooting only to be killed in another...I am starting to think she was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Roy Karrde]

You know it is ironic, if there was one lesson in the movie before this one, it is that for some people there is nothing you can attribute to their crimes, for some people they just want to kill and cause chaos. Yet we have people today speculating from everything from games to politics.

What if, what if for just once, someone just wanted to cause some chaos. Not based out of video games, not based out of politics. But just based out of pure chaos.

[classy_cat18]

So he blames video games? And not TV, movies, or literature, which have been just as violent and have been around much longer than video games? The reason why people blame video games is because the medium has been turned into a scapegoat. People just can't accept the fact that someone might've gone on a shooting spree because they're a nutjob! No one looks at the millions of gamers who don't even think about doing this stuff!

That Facebook post belongs to an idiot, and you are welcome to tell him I said that.

[Rossymore]

What does the shooting at a movie theater have to do with video games? Was the guy who did the shooting play video games? And if so, which ones? Or is your friend blindly assuming that all video games are the same as CoD?

I understand the sort of jabs that people do at video games but they really have little evidence to back it up. Have people seen the amount of violence and murdering there is on TV? It's just annoying to have violent video games hounded so much by Moral Guardians and the like, when other media is being completely glossed over.

Even more infuriating is saying how games such as GTA and CoD will warp the young minds of the new generation when they shouldn't be PLAYING these games to begin with because of the age rating, not the parents seemed to notice when they bought it for them.

But I doubt this will stop anytime soon. Video games are an interesting media due to how little some people understand them. Most gamers are young and an older person playing a video game is seen as childish.
Maybe that'll change when we get older... hopefully.

[mattbcl]

^ This. And the post above it, hardcore.

Current reports state the man claimed himself to be The Joker, which serves to offer Roy's theory confirmation - he's an incredibly deranged man that simply wanted to cause as much chaos as he could, and idolized the Batman villain for doing the same. It has nothing to do with video games.

[Andrew]

This has nothing to do with Video Games.

What it brings to light is America's batshit insane gun laws.

Even if you need guns for 'hunting' - You don't need semi automatic assault rifles to take out a few deer.

If you need a gun for protection, keep it to a revolver or a glock. If you need something for hunting, have a rifle.

BUT OF COURSE this will never happen, because, you know - AMERICA.

[Heald]

I don't really see the problem. The USA has never had an issue with paying the blood tax that comes with anyone being able to walk around with weapons that can easily murder dozens of people within a few seconds.

It's a serious tragedy, and it is completely and entirely down to the suspect's state of mind. Those with ulterior motives will always look for some form of media that warped this man's brain - video games, hip-hop, death metal, violent movies etc. The fact is that no matter what a person's mental state is, and what influences it, if a country believes he should be able to have access to weapons that are only useful for murdering dozens of people in a short space of time, then they should not moan when someone uses those weapons for that very purpose.

[Magmar]

I feel like the shooter's status as a medical student would indicate he understands video game violence and the delicacy of the human life to some degree.

Alas, I'm probably wrong.

[Bear]

for pete's sake, I played Goldeneye until my hands fell off and I never even once thought about going out and killing people. This whole video game violence crap is tired and played out. People just need something to blame so they can gain some sort of half-assed closure, and video games are just an easy target. Just because statistics loosely correlate doesn't mean one causes the other.

And PS, specific video games aren't warping the minds of our youth. What's warping the minds of our youth is spending 24 hours a day on their computers/TVs/Xbox instead of exercising or reading.

[Heald]

And PS, specific video games aren't warping the minds of our youth. What's warping the minds of our youth is spending 24 hours a day on their computers/TVs/Xbox instead of exercising or reading.
Yes because youths never did anything terrible before the television became a staple in a family home :\

[DarkestLight]

I'm all for wanting the world to burn, but really? Killing a baby? yeah I have limits, and killing a non zombified baby is one of them.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

People seem to be overlooking the good aspects of playing videogames. Let's take games like Pokemon or Final Fantasy. I think calculating damage teaches kids mathematics, battle systems teach kids prioritizing (as to whether use healing items or attacks in a specific situation), and non-English-speaking kids learn English, which is very important. Children even learn Japanese or Chinese from games like Tekken these days.

Bear is right too, what is a pity is that parents leave their children to be babysit by computers and videogame consoles. That's mainly due to their lack of time to be with them in my opinion. Those kids are left alone into their own world. Perhaps the parents should try to play the games with them in multiplayer modes?!? Or at least they should discuss gaming with their children, to see if choosing a specific videogame really have a kind of influence.

One more point. Videogames aren't recognized as a form of art yet. They should be. Making a good videogame is much more difficult than painting a picture, writing a book, composing a song or directing a movie. Usually you have to do those all plus know something about programming and gameplay. If people considered videogames as fine arts, they would understand that even if specific videogames may make certain fragile minds think killing people is OK, this is nothing new. For instance in 1774, a book called Die Leiden des jungen Werthers, (The Sorrows of Young Werther) was publised and caused a tidal wave of suicides among desperate lovers copying the main character.

[Skye]

Video games are, as have been stated, a scapegoat. But, so is everything else. For a -healthy- human mind, the impact of shooting pixils is no more damaging than reading a very dark and twisted novel. For the unhealthy mind, it is no more than an illusion of an impression left behind and holds no meaning to the individual in question. "I'm the Joker" can probably be dated back to "I'm Napoleon" and beyond. The person thinks they're something or someone else and plays out their own delusion, but let's face it... these people were damaged to begin with... Not their fault, it just happens. Genetics, environment, something went wrong.

If it wasn't the case, all of us who grew up with our violent video games would be crazy people shooting up the streets and stealing cars to run people over and singing the Dragonborn Comes. If we survived to this point... If humans were naturally that impressionable, I'm sure society would have died out long before TV had been invented... xD Sad but true. Homer's tales would have probably been the death of us all.

[DivineAll]

Uh... no. You do not take the Jack Thompson defense for any shooting situation because it is incredibly flimsy and there is usually no solid substantial proof to back up said defense. I've seen this story posted up a lot recently and no one had to put up the Jack Thompson defense.

ItsSomeRandomGuy, creator of the I'm a Marvel and I'm a DC series, recently put up a video with well-thought out details about how he reacted to the situation. Check him and his work out, especially his recent response because it really is thought provoking.

I'd also like to point out that the guy brought a gun to the Batman movie when Batman is the protagonist and said protagonist's first and only rule is NOT to kill. "You either die a hero, or see yourself live long enough become a villain." This guy is certainly taking the latter seriously, isn't he?

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Most of you know this story.

In 2000, I had desperately fallen in love with a girl who said she wasn't interested in me. I was about to kill myself by jumping out of an attic window. I was sitting on the edge but then I remembered Pokemon will be on TV next Saturday. I wanted so much to see the episode that I didn't jump. So, video games saved my life.

[Blademaster]

>shooting at movie theatre
>blamed on video games

Human race, when I start regaining my hope in you, STOP DASHING IT AGAIN KTHANX.

[Bear]

Yes because youths never did anything terrible before the television became a staple in a family home :\

Oh no no that's not what I meant. I meant our youth's minds are being warped as in dulled, not warped as in AMAG I KILL PEEPS. I was just making a general comment on the lack of activity, not implying those influences had anything to do with crazy people doing things like this.

[Magmar]

Yeah, Bear, I agree. Kids today don't really reap the benefits of face-to-face interaction quite like our generation (and older) kids did--remember the days when, if you wanted to talk to/visit a friend, you had to either call the house phone or ring the doorbell? Interpersonal communication is transforming into something systematical and insincere.

#oldfart

[Asilynne]

From what I read he was addicted to one video game. Guitar Hero, yeah somehow I don't think that made him do it >.>

I was thinking about this earlier. When something goes wrong people want to try to find a reason for it. They want someone to blame. But it's stupid to think someone's actions are the fault of things like video games, politics, movies, religion (or lack thereof), race, gender, sexual orientation, country of origin etc etc. People are going to be crazy and do crazy senseless things despite any other label they happen to wear. There's no use blaming something other than the person who did it.

Unfortunately there will always be those who will use a tragedy in order to fuel their own agenda.

[Heald]

I'm going to go see the Batman film tonight. A gem from a conversation with my uncle on the subject:

Me: I'm going to see the new Batman film tonight.
Him: Ok...(pause), wait, did you say Batman or Spider-Man?
Me: Batman.
Him: Ok, which one has just come out?
Me: I think both are very recent.
Him: Ok...and which one do you get shot at?

What a feature.

[DivineAll]

I got back from seeing the movie a few minutes ago. The shooter called himself the Joker, did he not? And yet... there was no mention of Heath Ledger's character out of respect from his death. The shooter, if he wanted to respect Heath Ledger's character, was entirely in the wrong here. Even in The Dark Knight, even though he may or may not have been lying, the Joker did have some standards. They were messed up standards, but they were standards nonetheless. The shooter showed no standards at all.

[Blademaster]

Oh no no that's not what I meant. I meant our youth's minds are being warped as in dulled, not warped as in AMAG I KILL PEEPS. I was just making a general comment on the lack of activity, not implying those influences had anything to do with crazy people doing things like this.


Yeah, Bear, I agree. Kids today don't really reap the benefits of face-to-face interaction quite like our generation (and older) kids did--remember the days when, if you wanted to talk to/visit a friend, you had to either call the house phone or ring the doorbell? Interpersonal communication is transforming into something systematical and insincere.

#oldfart

I can't help but chuckle when people try and play this card. When I was in school, I grew up for a good ten years with virtually no friends. The ten years I spent after that being homeschooled, going to college, and getting a job, I discovered the Internet. Loneliness was a perfect motivator: I put on my best behavior and was unaware that options like lying to people over the Internet even existed. And since I somehow managed to stay off of 4chan for a good 4 or so years, I didn't have my naive innocence instantly crushed. The end result of the factors that shaped my life were the slow introduction of an eager mind and a lonely heart to totally new people who were informative and friendly.

I'm not saying that everybody grows up this way. I'm not saying that even half of people that grew up with the Internet grew up that way. But the simple fact is that if the Internet could teach me how to be sincere to people and maybe be their friend, then there's no reason that it can't do the same to other kids.

Of course, the end result might not be something that society as a whole wants... But I don't want to get too philosophical, so I digress.

[mattbcl]

Blade, I'd like to think that I grew up with the Internet in much the same way as you did, with sincerity and innocence on my side, but I'm not certain I can say that truthfully. I think that makes you a magnificent exception to a series of general results. But I don't think Bear and Magmar are "playing a card" on this subject, so much as lending a voice to the concern that in general, face-to-face interaction is being marginalized and there's potential for your average wired-in human being to lose sight of what a healthy life of social interaction ought to include.

Moving on to a slight tangent for this subject, this weekend I found myself saying aloud, "It's very tragic and heartbreaking that young children were involved in the shooting... but what on earth are parents doing bringing kids that age into a midnight premiere for what's clearly to be a violent movie?" I was not saying it to blame the parents for getting their kids shot at; I was simply attempting to question the wisdom of parents who seemed to think children below the double digits were ready to see this sort of thing. Not even just the 6-year-old, but there was a 4-month-old in there, too - is it really a good idea to bring in a baby who's liable to scream and cry in the midst of the viewing? That child would be scared to death by the gunfire, the shouting... not to mention the spontaneous need to feed. Do parents who do this somehow think any of those scenarios would not in some way interrupt the viewing experience of those around them? I don't want to hear a crying baby when I'm watching a movie...

Then I stumbled across this article (http://moms.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/22/12882935-babies-at-batman-not-time-to-play-the-blame-game?lite&__utma=14933801.789718108.1342820290.1342920171.13 42962919.8&__utmb=14933801.1.10.1342962919&__utmc=14933801&__utmx=-&__utmz=14933801.1342820290.1.1.utmcsr=(direct)|utm ccn=(direct)|utmcmd=(none)|utmcct=/&__utmv=14933801.|8=Earned%20By=msnbc%7Ccover=1^12= Landing%20Content=Mixed=1^13=Landing%20Hostname=ww w.nbcnews.com=1^30=Visit%20Type%20to%20Content=Ear ned%20to%20Mixed=1&__utmk=111785604) this morning, and it made me wonder if I was perhaps coming down on them a bit too hard. On the other hand, it's inspired me to wonder - when will I be ready for MY kids to see movies like TDKR? Obviously I can't control the behavior of other parents, but I can at least be in control of my own actions when I eventually become one, and if it's going to come down to nothing less than a personal judgment call... I don't want my kids anywhere near it until I can rest assured they understand the difference between fantasy and reality.

Thoughts on this?

[Magmar]

I don't think Bear and Magmar are "playing a card" on this subject, so much as lending a voice to the concern that in general, face-to-face interaction is being marginalized and there's potential for your average wired-in human being to lose sight of what a healthy life of social interaction ought to include.

Yup, you got it!!

[Heald]

Dear Shadow Wolf, you have been banned for advertising. Thanks.

[Shadow Wolf]

Dear Shadow Wolf, you have been banned for advertising. Thanks.

I apologize for that terrible mistake (I'm not kidding... I was indeed scared when I read this).

Well, right now, I'm kinda afraid to link anything, so I would like to request for help on this one: Actor Christian Bale visited the victims of the shooting, but as himself, of course. He did this on his own behalf and not on representation of Warner Bros.

Well, in my opinion, this was something which makes me consider Christian Bale as a great person. Kudos to him for being with those families on these hard times.

[Asilynne]

Blade, I'd like to think that I grew up with the Internet in much the same way as you did, with sincerity and innocence on my side, but I'm not certain I can say that truthfully. I think that makes you a magnificent exception to a series of general results. But I don't think Bear and Magmar are "playing a card" on this subject, so much as lending a voice to the concern that in general, face-to-face interaction is being marginalized and there's potential for your average wired-in human being to lose sight of what a healthy life of social interaction ought to include.

Moving on to a slight tangent for this subject, this weekend I found myself saying aloud, "It's very tragic and heartbreaking that young children were involved in the shooting... but what on earth are parents doing bringing kids that age into a midnight premiere for what's clearly to be a violent movie?" I was not saying it to blame the parents for getting their kids shot at; I was simply attempting to question the wisdom of parents who seemed to think children below the double digits were ready to see this sort of thing. Not even just the 6-year-old, but there was a 4-month-old in there, too - is it really a good idea to bring in a baby who's liable to scream and cry in the midst of the viewing? That child would be scared to death by the gunfire, the shouting... not to mention the spontaneous need to feed. Do parents who do this somehow think any of those scenarios would not in some way interrupt the viewing experience of those around them? I don't want to hear a crying baby when I'm watching a movie...

Then I stumbled across this article (http://moms.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/22/12882935-babies-at-batman-not-time-to-play-the-blame-game?lite&__utma=14933801.789718108.1342820290.1342920171.13 42962919.8&__utmb=14933801.1.10.1342962919&__utmc=14933801&__utmx=-&__utmz=14933801.1342820290.1.1.utmcsr=(direct)|utm ccn=(direct)|utmcmd=(none)|utmcct=/&__utmv=14933801.|8=Earned%20By=msnbc%7Ccover=1^12= Landing%20Content=Mixed=1^13=Landing%20Hostname=ww w.nbcnews.com=1^30=Visit%20Type%20to%20Content=Ear ned%20to%20Mixed=1&__utmk=111785604) this morning, and it made me wonder if I was perhaps coming down on them a bit too hard. On the other hand, it's inspired me to wonder - when will I be ready for MY kids to see movies like TDKR? Obviously I can't control the behavior of other parents, but I can at least be in control of my own actions when I eventually become one, and if it's going to come down to nothing less than a personal judgment call... I don't want my kids anywhere near it until I can rest assured they understand the difference between fantasy and reality.

Thoughts on this?

I agree with you, on multiple points. But I'm going to touch on the bringing a child to a midnight showing one.

This one I feel mixed on. The couple says they brought their kids to the movie because they have to live their life, and while some would question which movie they brought them to, or the fact that it was a midnight showing, I have to agree that for some people there isn't much of a choice. They are an unmarried couple with two children, and I would hazard a guess one income considering the fact that the recent addition is only 4 months old. Childcare is expensive, and not everyone has family willing to babysit, or any family at all, and its often hard for parents of young children to have time to be a couple and not just partners in parenting. If he's working all day, she's taking care of the kids, then when he gets home he helps take care of the kids etc, they probably don't get much time to be anything but parents, let alone spend some time with each other.

They said that they brought the kids hoping they would sleep through the movie so that for once in probably a long time they could see what it feels like to date each other again. Its really easy to sit back and be judgmental but we are not living their lives, and someone on the outside of our lives looking in could equally judge anything we do if we were suddenly in the spotlight.

That being said, the thing that bothers me the most about that couple was the fact that the man not only put his baby down and busted himself out of the theatre, leaving both his kids and his girlfriend still inside during the shooting, but he got in his car and left them there. While I understand everyone fight or flight response is different, and putting aside the fact that he left his girlfriend since I don't know how stable their relationship was beforehand, he left his KIDS in there. I'm having a hard time understanding that since usually the bond between a father and his kids is one where he would lay down his life for them. I'm trying really hard not to judge him since I was never in that sort of situation and I don't know how I would react for sure, but if I were his girlfriend I would be thinking long and hard about going through with marrying him after that. I don't know if personally I would trust him since he would have already shown how he handles an emergency.

[Heald]

I apologize for that terrible mistake (I'm not kidding... I was indeed scared when I read this).

Well, right now, I'm kinda afraid to link anything, so I would like to request for help on this one: Actor Christian Bale visited the victims of the shooting, but as himself, of course. He did this on his own behalf and not on representation of Warner Bros.

Well, in my opinion, this was something which makes me consider Christian Bale as a great person. Kudos to him for being with those families on these hard times.
I was kidding :)

Please post all the links.

[DarkestLight]

Going in on this one...


I agree with you, on multiple points. But I'm going to touch on the bringing a child to a midnight showing one.


They said that they brought the kids hoping they would sleep through the movie so that for once in probably a long time they could see what it feels like to date each other again. Its really easy to sit back and be judgmental but we are not living their lives, and someone on the outside of our lives looking in could equally judge anything we do if we were suddenly in the spotlight.

No. I hear parents say that their baby sleeps through the movie and they get a chance to sit and enjoy the film. No. Bringing a Baby to a movie is like bringing an armed grenade to a trust fall. Shit's a time bomb waiting to explode. I'm not even being judgmental. I truly think its BAD PARENTING. Yes, I understand parents need a break. I understand parents are (obviously) people with the same need for creature comforts-especially the mom if she is not working. But for pete's sake, get a sitter. Wake up grandma. Get the movie on bootleg. Put the child in a car and leave it there for 2 hours-daytime preferably (no, don't do the last one XD). Go to a Matinee-those are usually chock full of babies. Don't bring your baby to a premiere, especially not at night. :/ Restaurant, fine. Drive in movie theater-OK (still ear grating..) Opera house, NO >O! Broadway play NO! I'm seriously against it. You can wait two years -.-. Least 2 Year olds are easy to shut up with candy.

I'm having a hard time understanding that since usually the bond between a father and his kids is one where he would lay down his life for them.

o.O No offense, I laughed when I read this. Again. Differing experiences, but the concept of fatherhood that I've seen forks dramatically. His response is something that I have unfortunately come to expect. Not saying there aren't good fathers out there that do act like how you describe, I see them and know them very well (including my own) But honestly...its the minority, Brandy. At least for my interpretation. So yeah, I can't judge him either, but I can't say that I didn't expect that :( Kinda sad really.

I don't know if personally I would trust him since he would have already shown how he handles an emergency.

He was all like " CHILL THEY POPPING OFF!!! EVERYONE FOR THEMSELVES!!" *TOSS BABY IN HER LAP, JUKE FOR EXIT* XD

Yeah too soon, but the mental had to be released.

[Asilynne]

Going in on this one...

I was giving them the benefit of the doubt since I don't fully know their situation lol

I know not all fathers are like mine, but I wouldn't consider being with a man that I KNEW would just leave me and our kids when shit went down, just saying, I would book it outta that relationship faster than he booked it outta the theatre.

I definitely wouldn't say yes to his proposal for marriage while I was laying in the hospital after him pulling a stunt like that!!!

[DarkestLight]

Hhehe he was all "Naa baby, that kid wasn't even mine, you know I'd never do you dirty like that. Be my wifey :D. I-I-I change yo' IV."

"Why I left? Naa, I was securing the door, I said hustle up! I aint see you, I thought you ran the other way! Oh and word yo you owe me 65 dollars, you parked in a handicapped spot :/ PAY WHAT YOU OWE!"