The Steubenville rape case

[Zak]

I will probably get attacked for this post but let's see...

So I'm sure many of you (Americans at least) heard bits and pieces of it in the news.

Too lazy to find an article but basically for those who don't know, the cliffnotes version is this: In Steubenville, Ohio, this girl got black-out drunk at a party. Two guys (who are apparently really popular and a big deal in their football community) took advantage of her. Justice was later properly served to these two. All three people (both the girl and the two guys) were 16.
And the catch (as in, the reason this is being talked about/standing out rather than "just another rape case)? People around seem to be having more sympathy and shedding more tears for the two men and how their "lives are ruined" and they will be "forever haunted by this" and painting THEM to be the 'undeserving victims' and demonizing the girl, for being such a terrible person for ruining their lives.


So yes... sick and revolting, right? This blog's compilation of tweets and comments should pretty much cover it... for the most part: http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/

I assume you agree that justice was rightfully served and those guys got what they deserve and that most of those items on that blog seem to ridiculous to be real or else you lose faith in humanity, right? Heh, so we are on the same page... so far.


So why did I say that I "might get attacked"? Where's the problem?

It's simple. It's like this.

About that blog. Well, I did say "most of those posts"... and that is a BIG "most". But NOT all.

In fact, I'm almost afraid to admit it (though I don't think that I should be, because it's the truth), but there are a select few on that blog that I actually find to be valid points that don't deserve to be here, and I find it rather sickening that this feminazi of a blogger decided to include them.

A few examples:

Scroll down to some of the facebook comments:
http://media.tumblr.com/dc67a9a4ce43a567ba44d5e34419e5b3/tumblr_inline_mjtk88gsL81qawfnh.png
http://media.tumblr.com/1efa3b1d5d57dc772441740574b4773e/tumblr_inline_mjtkadGbvn1qawfnh.png
http://media.tumblr.com/142ca48a4dc61f84d68ada2d658b5c9d/tumblr_inline_mjtl1bDT5s1qawfnh.png

Those, for instance. Yes, these people are "scum"/"chauvinistic"/"evil" for simply stating that the girl had ANY responsibility whatsoever.

Which she fucking DID. Denying that and alienating anyone who says that, is silly and disgusting and doesn't give this blogger any more moral high ground than the people sympathizing with the two perpetrators.

For one, some of these people didn't even mention the two guys or say they were "innocent and undeserving of having their lives ruined". All they are saying is that the girl had some responsibility. However, because she is a rape victim, that seems to give her god-status in some people's minds, and heaven-forbid should anyone say ANYTHING negative about her or any of her actions or perceive her as anything other than a perfect sinless little angel.

Reality check, feminazis: Getting blackout drunk is never a good idea, for anyone. Regardless of gender, age, or race, it's a bad decision to make. That's not the same as saying "people who do it are begging to be raped"... not by a long shot. It's just a bad decision. If that's what you hear when someone merely says it's a bad decision... then, well I pity you.

Let alone doing it underage... blacking out is bad even if you are 21, you ignorant festering twats.

But no. It seems that because this girl is a rape victim, not a SINGLE action of hers can be marked as wrong or have anything negative said about it, or else you will be forever alienated and lumped with the real idiots saying the guy was innocent and put on blogs like that one. No joke.

A few more unbelonging tweets:

http://media.tumblr.com/0f63fb2d4629cf2986d591cbff90f367/tumblr_inline_mjw2brLjaZ1qawfnh.png

I could see how that can be misread as saying "it's okay to rape someone if they're blackout drunk". But still, you have to be dense to read it like that. What this person says is actually truth and by no means does she deserve to be on that cunt's blog.

http://media.tumblr.com/f4d6c7585de62a15d40fdee0e5167799/tumblr_inline_mjtck9Hb1M1qawfnh.png

Just an innocent question/observation! Seriously! If saying something like this on a public blog will get me alienated then there is something wrong with the world.

...And more. Bottom line is apparently feminazis have trouble differentiating between saying she has some responsibility, and saying she's more to blame for those guys.


Whee sorry about that rant. So... discuss?

[Kumori]

...this is just ridiculous. Your point is absolutely valid and I agree. All of them are at fault, and the girl shouldn't have been drinking in the first place. And when you're drunk, what seems to be the norm in modern society is for people to think that you're wide open for sex. From what I've seen of society and by watching these shows that video party-mad holiday destinations, that seems to be norm.

Society is a sad thing these days...

[mattbcl]

Not so much a fan of all the abusive language in that rant, Zak, but I certainly agree with you that the girl shouldn't have been behaving so irresponsibly. It didn't give those boys license to rape her, or really to lay their hands on her in any other way, either, but I wouldn't nominate her for sainthood.

Also agree with Kumori's point about societal standards. (What are those?)

[DarkestLight]

Where are Gavin and Oslo? WHERE WHERE WHERE? #12 AND #5 SEED ALL OVER AGAIN!

[RedStarWarrior]

Their lives might be ruined by their stupid actions?

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS3QvULKFPAxl52o1KKCsQRh0_AHLzz5 uIEygQZ5NMK5BxU0sRjDaB_gCDjSg

[kurai]

i think the main concern of that tumblr is that most of the people being quoted are either trying to excuse the actions of the rapists, or are conflating 'responsibility' with receiving punishment.

let's apply some js mill:

A1) getting blackout drunk harms one's self (and/or advances a context in which harm to one's self may occur)

A2) raping someone constitutes direct harm to that other person

B1) harming one's self is not generally a criminal act unless it embodies some sort of perceived moral harm (and it is debatable whether that even counts as a legitimate crime; for mill, it explicitly does not)

B2) deliberately harming someone else is almost always a criminal act (if not, then at least a tort)

C) "criminals" are dealt with through punishment and ostracism so as to prevent further harm from being imposed on others

therefore:

on what grounds would this girl be punished? she is the injured, not the injurer - the one who suffered direct harm. what more would she be responsible for than that which has already happened? to the extent that she created a social evil, its effects were an imposition against herself, rather than against society (or her rapists).

a movement towards responsibility - as enhancing the application of wisdom in one's actions, so as to avoid self-directed harm - is undeniably beneficial. using the concept of responsibility to excuse crime, or to further victimize one who has already suffered, is not at all in accord with justice.

yet:

as you have highlighted, a few of the selections provided on that tumblr are simultaneously wisdom-oriented and able to be interpreted as taking a negative stance against the girl (in contrast to the purely unjust approach taken by the other two categories of comments). with regard to this third category, the intention behind their inclusion is probably to suggest that it is more productive to take a positive approach when directing comments at a rape victim, so as to avoid providing implicit support for the excusing crime/further victimization stances.

i think the tumblr post does not consider all the comments to be of an equally offensive or problematic nature, even if it lists all of them together. as it does not say exactly what is wrong with each quoted comment, this remains a speculative interpretation of the differing potential purpose behind each instance of "public shaming".

[Jeff]

What annoys me about this whole thing is that it's glaringly obvious that the victim could have taken preventative measures in order to protect herself, but whenever someone suggests such a thing they're accused of blaming the victim. Because of that, very valid and valuable advice is being silenced. If you really hate rape, wouldn't you want potential victims to be aware of situations that put them at a higher risk?

[ChobiChibi]

Wasn't there a thread very similar to this a year or so ago? I remember something to do with rape, and me getting annoyed at Roy about something.

I'll look up said thread when I get home...

[Blademaster]

Yeah, that was probably (Insert any Misc. thread ever here.).

[Magmar]

Dude. First of all, she's 16. She's not really of the age to probably have drank all that much and know her limits. In fact, she shouldn't have had alcohol at all, but even if it is her own fault for getting too drunk (which I disagree), it's someone's MAJOR fault for providing alcohol to high-schoolers AND letting them drink it presumably unsupervised AND then let that girl leave where she was unconscious or too drunk to make decisions for herself AND make no effort to contact authorities/parents knowing she was dangerously drunk and in the hands of other teens who are barely old enough to drive.

She could've been roofied. It hasn't even been brought up as evidence that she has or hasn't, but that level of intoxication/unawareness of what's happening to you suggests drugs OR extremely dangerous consumption of high levels of alcohol.

Further, it's most certainly not the fault of an unconscious high school girl that got raped after choosing to drink, yes, but presumably within the company of at least someone she trusted to some degree. She wasn't driving, so she went somewhere with people she knew or at the very least, left the company of someone she knew who should have stopped her.

So while the survivor may not have had the knowledge to know her limits OR was given something illicitly (or even pressured into drinking when she was already too drunk and her decision making was impaired), it's most certainly the fault of anyone who either touched her inappropriately or allowed the behavior to continue without notifying the authorities or preventing the rape. At 16, you may not know your limits or have the maturity to handle consuming alcohol... That's why the drinking age is older than that. However, at 16 in today's society and with mandatory health classes, you most certainly are taught to some degree about consent. No reasonable person teaches you to have sex with someone without their consent when they are black out drunk, and the language "reasonable person" is permissible in court here as a way to make legitimate assumptions about acceptable behavior. It's why there's certain laws pertaining to accountability, if you're walking down the street and see a hit and run and someone gets run over, a reasonable person wouldn't just walk away and pretend it didn't happen. If a reasonable person witnesses a rape, they wouldn't just walk away. An asshole might, but if said asshole can be proven to be present at the scene and have the accessibility to contact authorities without facing imminent harm, they can be charged.

I say charge 'em all. Hang 'em out to dry. This is no gray area of "legitimate" rape or not. This was a rape, and anyone who allowed it to happen should be held accountable to some degree. At this age, I'm not saying jail time for everyone at every party, but broader consequences need to be felt.

[Dark Sage]

So many people in this society with a "blame the victim" attitude.

There was once a time in Romania around the 14th Century (I believe) where the punishment for rape was death by impalement, and victim of the crime was allowed to aid the executioner if she wanted (to a limited degree). They certainly didn't have such a mindset.

[pidgezero_one]

Jesus christ, people love to fall all over themselves to find something they can blame on rape victims. Tell me, who commits rape? A victim, or a rapist? Basic English should tell you the answer is obvious.

If you rape somebody, you are 100% solely responsible for it. You had the option to not rape a person, and voluntarily chose not to take it. Your fault. Not the victim's.