the dawn of a new metagame

[probationsmack]

i actually need to get something straight
what exactly is the definition of metagame?

anyway, i have been hearing ranting on how two vs two will be the new wave of the metagame. I am wondering on what basis this presumption is based (evidence). Some have suggested that r/s is actually quite revolved around 2v2 battling, yet i see that the games offer little in game training for the new sport. What are some of the various new combos strategies for 2v2?

[jusrelac]

I think calling 2v2 battles metagame is improper use of the word. It's not a metagame, but rather a style of battle... as opposed to the one on one style of battling.

Urbandictionary.com (and similar definitions at other sources) definies metagame as the following:
Term used for card games. The act of changing your deck around to counter the majority of decks in the local tournament area.

People are just throwing around buzz words like it's their job. A metagame would be including a rapid spinner on your team because of an overabundance of Spikers. 2v2 is not a metagame.

[:: One ::]

jusrelac pretty much nailed it. after playing the TCG, metagaming would be like adding Magmars to your Haymaker because Scythers are being used in your local tourney scene. I agree with jusrelac on calling 2v2 battles metagame as improper word usage.

I think people see RuSa revolving around 2v2 because of some of the abilities pokemon have and such.

When people say that 2v2 will be the new wave of metagame, it doesn't really make sense. But besides that, they're probably saying it because of the abilities some pokemon have and stuff like that. Saying that 2v2 will be the most dominant way to battle might be a better sentence, but i dont' agree with that.

[Gligar_Man]

helping hand, follow me, teeter dance, lightning rod... it goes on and on, skill swap... f33r... actualy yes the battling system of it does revolve around it quite a bit, i personally have accepted it and am ready to move on, bu others dont seem to be so eager, :P

[jusrelac]

RuSa the game itself does very little to get one excited about 2v2 style of battling. There are so few in game 2v2 battles, and the few there are, the opponents only have two Pokemon to fight with... so the battle is over before you even notice it was a 2v2 battle.

If Nintendo really wanted to push this 2v2 stuff, it would've made MUCH more sense to have a 2v2 Battle Tower instead of the damned lvl 100 one so that people can actually practice and see what's effective. In the real world, most people don't know about RSBot, and therefore will have virtually no practice before their first real 2v2 battle.

[Darkanine]

I think that metagame just means stratagy. Its the game withen the actual game, figuring out opponents, exploiting weaknesses, laying traps playing mindgames. Not just countering what is popular. I'd rather create a team that was well ballanced on its own rather than just counter what SEEMS to be popular. Champions are know for being surprising. I'd rather have a team that stands a good chance against anything than have a team specifically designed to take down specific teams.

IMO, 2v2 takes more skill, knowledge, and synergy than 1v1 ever has.

[jusrelac]

LOL, darkanine. To me, an airplane is a machine that cools off rooms when it's hot in the summer. No... an airplane is a vehicle that carries passengers in the sky. Ummm... you can't take words and just decide what you want them to mean.

The definition of what I said what metagame is... is what it is. As in, I didn't just arbitrarily decide what it means. I'm not saying your team should be a team based a metagame strategy (Interestingly enough you define metagame as strategy... meanwhile it's a type of strategy), or that you will be a "champion" by having one. I'm telling you what metagame is so that you don't sound thick when you're talking to people...

You even friggin contradict yourself when you say:
#1) metagame just means strategy
#2) 2v2 is the new meta-game

What the hell are you talking about. How can 2v2 be a strategy. 2v2 is a style of battling for which you can have strategies. Not a strategy in and of itself.

[Darkanine]

Thats not the point I'm trying to make, we can argue about semantics with you all day. My point is that the meta-game ie. what is popular should switch over to 2v2 because it is IMO a much more fon and strategic way to play pokemon.

[Gligar_Man]

sorry jusrelac, even if there is only one move that is only useable in 2v2, or one ability... it is pushing the envelope, you are grossly mislead here, 2v2 is here now, it is no longer some option on the gsbot... 2v2 is now a way of battling... it does require more strategy, etc. and you fail to realize, yeah they might double team on a bigger threat... but that just brings out tons of more strategy, in wich it seems you are not quite accepting, its cool to favor 1v1, but its another thing to bash on people who are prepared and excited of the 2v2 advancement... there are plenty of things in wich are 2v2, and plenty of things that are solely 2v2... wich means it is here, you can choose wichever you like, and 2v2 is alot the same, in many ways... but it does require more strategy, synergy, basically counterring doubled barbarianism (:P) is a bit harder... and you also fail to realize that say you hide something very well or unexpected things will also have double the affect, being well... you get to use it, it makes the switch wars 2x as interesting, and learning your opponents very much harder... not to mention that most of the things you have said were wrong... and the metagame has been related to many things outside of tcg juraselec, many numerous things, thats just ignorant... just because the game offerred very few 2v2 battles (7???) doesnt mean it isnt here, lol... it is fun, and you are in no position to put others down for thinking that, both of your information was a wee bit off, this isnt a rant... this is a discussion on 2v2, im pretty sure, lol... anyways, if they didnt intend for it to be used, they would not give rhydon lightning rod... or plusle and minun plus and minus... come on... its completely obvious... or a few others lightning rod... or a few own tempo and the new + s.a. confusion move, thats kind of obvious iMO... but whatever, nonetheless, i have just offerred some opinions... in my opinion i will state once again, it is here... i think people should say wether they plan on using it for 2v2 or 1v1, lol... or post alternates for them... its here, people have a right to prefer and use it, and you are in no state to criticize them... thx for botherring to read this peoples

[jusrelac]

Oh christ, are you people thick. I actually expected more from you Gligar_Man.

First of all, I really would've wish you would've quoted my posts, because you wouldn't have wasted your time writing this long tirade on how great 2v2 is. You might have noticed I didn't bash the 2v2 battle system once. Instead, you're so excited about the friggin thing that somehow my post on how someone doesn't know what the word becomes a post on how 2v2 is a pile of crap.

The ONLY negative thing that I even briefly mentioned about 2v2 battles was the fact that within the game itself, 2v2 battles are poorly introduced. I don't even think that is an arguable fact. You have just 7 ingame battles, and they all consist of facing opponent with just two Pokemon. I would have really liked for there to be a 2v2 Battle Tower where the opponent had 6 Pokemon.

The really funny thing is that I'm really interested in experiencing 2v2 battles, but many opportunities haven't presentend themselves outside the in-game battles (I actually plan to go to the NYC Pokecenter a bunch of times over the summer once I'm home from school). If you look at my first post, it was very calm and not even close to attacking... I was simply correcting probationsmack's use of a word. Then the 2v2 crusaders like darkanine and yourself come along looking to pick fights.

Try actually reading posts before you decide to run your mouth off. If I had to endure you one huge run-on sprinkled with condescending lols, you can try reading my post and seeing what I'm actually saying:

You can't have a discussion about something if you're screwing with the terminology.

[Gligar_Man]

-_-, and if you noticed, i didnt bash you at all... besides saying it was ignorant to say the metagame is solely to describe TCG, wich is true... and up until your last post you had a very pessimistic view on 2v2, or so it seemed even though i didnt make that assumption in my previous post, you have no righ to expect anything from me, i said what i thought... and i read your posts, and i didnt say anything negative about you but your description of 'metagame' i wasnt looking to pick a fight, i was looking to end one, if you pay attention to what i said i am expressing my likeness for the 2v2, i didnt bash you on anything besides what i have already mentionned... "RuSa the game itself does very little to get one excited about 2v2 style of battling. There are so few in game 2v2 battles, and the few there are, the opponents only have two Pokemon to fight with... so the battle is over before you even notice it was a 2v2 battle. If Nintendo really wanted to push this 2v2 stuff, it would've made MUCH more sense to have a 2v2 Battle Tower instead of the damned lvl 100 one so that people can actually practice and see what's effective. In the real world, most people don't know about RSBot, and therefore will have virtually no practice before their first real 2v2 battle." here you were talking abuot how the game poorly introduces and uses it if it were intended to be used... well, i brought up the points of the solely 2v2 moves and abilities... that shouldnt have been deragotory towards you, and wasnt intended to if you took it that way... so anyways, to further stress the point... i didnt intend to offend anyone, i was simply expressing my views, like i said, and next time... plz read what i have said, and i usually also say how i intended it since i am really bad with grammar, lol... to further stress the issue...

[jusrelac]

I am so done with this thread and arguement. My final bow will this last contradiction:

most recent comment: -_-, and if you noticed, i didnt bash you at all

previous posts:
--even if there is only one move that is only useable in 2v2, or one ability... it is pushing the envelope, you are grossly mislead here
when did talk about useable moves or abilities... but what do i see? grossly mislead? "dem be fighting words"

--but its another thing to bash on people who are prepared and excited of the 2v2 advancement
I never knew it was a mortal sin to disagree on a completely different subject with anyone who is excited about 2v2... so next time i see that pro-2v2 person murdering some old lady on the street i'll give him a pat on the back

--and you also fail to realize that say you hide something very well or unexpected things will also have double the affect, being well...
I can't even try to understand what the hell this crap means, perhaps i'm failing to understand your english...

--and the metagame has been related to many things outside of tcg juraselec, many numerous things, thats just ignorant...
jesus christ... i copied a friggin definition from ONE dictionary source.. and there's others out there too. the one source i referenced happened to use the example of card games cause i thought it would be an easy example for people who play pokemon to understand. essentially what the definition is saying (i know... this must very difficult to understand): metagame is a strategy against a popular strategy

--it is fun, and you are in no position to put others down for thinking that, both of your information was a wee bit off
this is by far my favorite part... WHEN WAS I PUTTING ANYONE DOWN. I originally corrected someone's definition... THAT'S IT. When people start attacking me after that though, of course I'm gonna make you look like a fool

-- its here, people have a right to prefer and use it, and you are in no state to criticize them...
and finally, the moral of the story... I never did kid, I never did. I NEVER criticized someone for preferring 2v2. I'd REALLY like for you to point out in my posts where I did this. telling me "what position i am in" is definitely asking for a fight. stop being so friggin rude.

And that's the end. There's nothing else I can possibly say... so I don't plan on responding to this thread unless it actually becomes posts of 2v2 battling rather than people trying to show me how stupid I am.

EDIT: I forgot to mention... you say how me saying that 2v2 was poorly introduced within the game itself is wrong by the fact that there are moves and abilities specifically for 2v2 battles. HELLO, that has nothing to do with introducing 2v2 battles. That has to do with giving meaning to 2v2 battles and setting them apart from 1v1 battles... introducing 2v2 battles would be letting the players experience them to some decent extent in the game before doing a link battle with their friends.

[Gligar_Man]

-_- the only one aimed at you in any way was the comment about your definition of the metagame, your letting things get grossly out of hand... and yes it is true, even if there is only one move/ability that is solely for 2v2, 2v2 should be explored, you were pessimistic and ragging on darkanine, among others... wich explains the others, wich were not intended as insults, but you can take them that way if you like... and you still do not have to be rude, lol... "I never did kid, I never did. I NEVER criticized someone for preferring 2v2. I'd REALLY like for you to point out in my posts where I did this." "RuSa the game itself does very little to get one excited about 2v2 style of battling. There are so few in game 2v2 battles, and the few there are, the opponents only have two Pokemon to fight with... so the battle is over before you even notice it was a 2v2 battle. If Nintendo really wanted to push this 2v2 stuff, it would've made MUCH more sense to have a 2v2 Battle Tower instead of the damned lvl 100 one so that people can actually practice and see what's effective. In the real world, most people don't know about RSBot, and therefore will have virtually no practice before their first real 2v2 battle." those were negative comments about the 2v2 system... wich didnt become clear until you cleared them up after my original post... -_-, one would only assume you were against, it also cleared up after... "I can't even try to understand what the hell this crap means, perhaps i'm failing to understand your english..." i was referring to double teaming soeone you are leaving another open for basically doubled staying power, allowing both sides to equally double team the biggest threat, or cast status affects, etc. i thought it was quite simple... i guess i should have worded it better... but i assumed it was obvious... everything in 2v2 worx both ways, -_-... so thank you for turning something i said into a rant... i said numerous times i didnt intend for it to be insulting, i also said that the only time in wich it was, was your definition of the metagame in wich you presented to others, this oculd have been avoided if you had said what you said in your last post, a while ago... but you didnt, and many of the things i said on behalf of, were things in wich you did not clear up AT ALL until later posts, my actions were just, and you are the one who intended to take them harmfully... now not to take away from this dudes thread, if youd like to go over 2v2 strategy with me, etc. you can PM me or AIM me, or if you owuld like to continue this petty argument... i still have only said one thing in wich if you werent so stuck on trying to prove everyone wrong, or had been more clear, maybe you wouldnt have tooken offensively... thank you for your time

edit: introducing it would be to show players the possibility of 2v2 battles, let them experience it and further help ninteno sell GBA/SP link cables... as you can fight 2v2... if youd like to, so i am doing this in response to your edit... and the moves/abilities, would also further help this like "hey i wonder what would happen if i used plusle and minuns plus and minus abilities in a 2v2" etc. or helping hand, lightningrod, bleh...

[Darkanine]

Trying to get things back on track here:

I think that the 2v2 battles were poorly introduced. I am hoping there will be some kind of 2v2 cup or a whole series of 2v2 cups in the next stadium type game. The only real way to test out 2v2 stratagies for now is to actual get your friends together and duke it out.

I hope that TPM and its members will make the switch to 2v2 as I think it is mucho fun. And yes, Gligarman has grammerfailure under his name for a reason.

[Gligar_Man]

one last thing: i dont mean this offensively, im saying if you say something that is controvercial (spelling?) it leads to more... even though i didnt intend any offense as ive said before im not that type of person

lOL@comment, funny... it would be interesting if the new stadium games got a few 2v2 cups... but i havnt heard any rumors about it and i have heard many many rumors, lol... i have actually gotten some friends and duked it out (no im not going around n00b bashing, there actually suprisingly decent) because paper strategies are always questionable, on thing i think people should realize if they do not is that rhydon is the only ground type in the game that gets lightningrod, making him be able to come in on a switch and absorb elec attax, at the current stage in the metagame, you can use this to your advantage very much so by counterring a certain elec weakness with this, and not suffer any loss, but it is easilly counterred and risky though, for example putting hp-water on a magneton and using it on the thing besides skarmory, etc. in battle, for a scenario... :\ i dont know how much of common knowledge this is so ill leave it at that

[Little_Pikachu]

Those of us on the GSBot have had 2v2 battles for over a year now. Turns out they suck, and I doubt the new cooperative moves will help them.

Why do they suck? Good luck getting four people together to perform a battle at the same time, without at least one of them pulling a GP. There's no strategy involved in a 2v1.

The "metagame environment" refers to the opponents you actually DO face, rather than the opponents you COULD face. If your metagame environment bans OHKOs, for instance, having a Sturdy characteristic on something is a waste of space. If the metagame environment does not ban OHKOs, it may be a very good idea to have a Sturdy pokémon or two. Or if 80% of the teams you ever face have a Curselax, you should certainly prepare for the metagame environment by putting in a counter or two for Curselax.

Generally speaking, a well-designed team tuned to a particular metagame environment with be stronger in that metagame environment than a well-designed generalist team, but it will be weaker than the generalist team in most other metagame environments. I wouldn't worry about the metagame if you're training manually and playing for fun, but if you're planning to enter official tourneys (where the stakes are high) or play on the RSBot (where changes are easy to make) I'd recommend you spend quite a bit of time thinking about it.

[Gligar_Man]

hmph... i disagree, it is a choice of preference... while some would prefer a more tense, moves are more important and must be more strategic, and planned... and on gsbot it was 2x as long... so it was in a sence like 2 1v1 at once, this offers many new things, wich do make a huge difference... i personally am having fun with it... battles tend to be much shorter, and it is more of a thinking game... IMO... its all in preference, while i prefer 2v2... many prefer 1v1... nothing wrong with that, people listen to different genres of music... not many people dont accept that, lol...

[Darkanine]

And from what I understand 2v2 on GSbot is a four player game with three poges each and teams, thats not that cool. But in rs, you have a 2v2 in which you control both poges so like GM said you wont have two poges using twave on the same thing. But that 2v2 on GS bot does sound sucky, though I think that shouldnt dissaude people from RS 2v2.

[Gligar_Man]

that only happens when communication is poor, wich rarely happens but does... and its 6... not 3, but i agree on it not letting people not experience the rusa difference wich is VERY much different...

[Darkanine]

Ah, so I missunderstood. The GSbot 2v2 is essential 12vs12 then, or 2 6v6s. Well whatever, that seems like it would take a long while to finish. Hopefully rsbot will help you get communication if you go with 2v2 and will have all the elements of the game.

[Oddish17]

I hope that TPM and its members will make the switch to 2v2 as I think it is mucho fun.

Make the switch how? I currently have no way of battling anyone else in a competitive 2 on 2 battle. You two are talking like competitive 2v2 battling is already here, which it is not, unless you live in an area with a multitude of pokemon fans. Wait for the rsbots to come online, then start trying to convince people that 2v2 is much better. That way they can at least try it out for themselves and formulate their own opinion based on experience.