Giratina's messed up lore

[Zak Rodgers]

I love the lore surrounding Legendaries; it's literally my favourite part of Pokemon. But some of it's a bit weird. Like Giratina's Lore.
So here's the myth, backed up by theory from me and the Youtube channel TheNationalDex (check 'em out, they do weekly Pokemon trivia and battle strategy, it's amazing):

In the beginning, we had the Egg, which gave birth to Arceus ("The Original One"). From itself, Arceus created Dialga and Palkia, and the universe was born out of their respective dominion over time and space. MATTER was born. That's all there is to it, right?
WRONG.
Einstein once quoted, "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". Broken down, this means there can be no Yin without a Yang. Nothing can exist without an opposite. Einstein created a revised form of his famous formula "E=mc-squared" in order to further explore his theory. When solved it yielded two solutions: a positive and a negative.
What is everything made up of? Matter. The positive.
What is the opposite of matter? Antimatter. The negative.

Making sense now?

Dialga and Palkia essentially created matter. Going back to Einstein, matter, like anything, can't exist without an opposite - antimatter. THEREFORE - could Giratina have been created alongside Dialga and Palkia to provide an opposite to the matter they created? Was it born out of necessity? Junichi Masuda has stated that Giratina is the personification of antimatter - a force in direct opposition to time and space. Remember how nothing can exist without an opposite? Maybe there would be no time or space had Giratina not come into existence!

If I haven't confused the shit out of you by now - haha - here's some more. Dumbed down a large amount, if a particle of matter meets a particle of antimatter they will expel an incredible amount of energy and annihilate each other. In other words, incredible destruction on a microscopic level. This is important as it may explain why Giratina was banished to the Distortion World. Remember how its Platinum Pokedex entry states "it was banished for its violence"? Well, Giratina is antimatter incarnate. The world Arceus created was, of course, made up of matter. Basic science. And what happens when matter and antimatter meet? COMPLETE AND UTTER CELLULAR ANNIHILATION. Giratina merely EXISTING was tearing the world to pieces. So maybe Arceus, with its godlike powers, opened a portal to another plane and banished Giratina there, saving the world. Yay.
HOWEVER.
Giratina's cellular destruction began to annihilate all matter in the alternate dimension too - until there was none. All that was left was a land made entirely of antimatter. No rules are followed. Time doesn't flow. Space isn't stable. Everything is in opposition. The Distortion World. Much explanation. Such theory. Wow.

But there's still a couple of issues.
1). In Platinum (and the movie "Giratina and the Sky Warrior"), HUMANS visit the Distorton World. Humans are made of matter. So if they entered a space made entirely of antimatter, wouldn't they die? Like, immediately? Remember that antimatter and matter annihilate one another. I have no idea how to address this issue, so tell me what you think.
2). Giratina has appeared in Arceus's world a few times throughout the games and anime, so why didn't everything go to shit again? I CAN answer this one. My theory is that Giratina's altered forme (the forme it can only take in Arceus's world) is kind of like a container, possibly created by Arceus, to stop Giratina's power from going out of control and causing annihilation - kind of like Golurk's seal. This explains the altered forme's more defensive stat spread compared to Origin forme, which is more attack based. This could also explain why altered forme resembles a ground-based insect while Origin forme is more flight-oriented. Some insects mature to adulthood by having their winged, adult forms EMERGING from the husk of their ground-based nymph forms. Kinda similar to Giratina's formes, eh? This is also similar to how Origin forme is more offensive than altered, as an adult insect is generally more of a predator than the younger nymph.
So maybe the altered form is like a power-restricting cocoon which can only be shed in the Distortion World, releasing Giratina's full power!

Sorry if I've just melted your brains - this stuff confuses me too. Keep in mind that this is 90% theory, 4% Pokemon mythology and 6% science, so it may not all be true.
Once again, this was put together by my own theories and those of TheNationalDex. Seriously, check the channel out. They rock.

As always, leave some thoughts of your own!

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

This is interesting. I do have some doubts when somebody tries to combine Einstein with ancient Chinese philosophy. Also, have heard of Steven Hawking? No, I don't mean the Best Wishes! anime character whose name everybody misspells ;)

I believe in a world made of antimatter, time doesn't pass as it does in our world. We don't have any means to measure time there. "Dying" doesn't happen as it does in our world.

[Zak Rodgers]

That's a really interesting concept, and I totally agree - a world made of antimatter could very well exist. Maybe a *gasp* flipside of our matter-created world?
DISTORTION WORLD CONFIRMED!

And yeah, I have heard of him. Does he have similar theories?

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

Well I just was wondering the Hawking Paradox with my friend yesterday. Maybe off-topic, but Steven Hawking had been talking about black holes all his life and then he declared they don't exist in our universe. In my opinion, the other end of a black hole might be a white hole, where a new universe is born. Of course, we shouldn't confuse another universe or a dimension between antimatter entity.

[Pokemaster Ash]

Giratina is a strange case, but there are certainly other Legendaries whose stories don't quite make sense.

Sticking with the Ghost/Dragon Legendary, though, there is another way to look at it. While the matter/anti-matter theory does make sense (and anti-matter being part of Giratina's power), it seems to me that its existence is symbolic on other levels. Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina were all creations of Arceus. However, while Dialga & Palkia took the path of order and creation, Giratina took the path of chaos and destruction and was sealed away for it. In short, Giratina is Arceus' Lucifer.

Now, that isn't to say Giratina is supposed to be the Pokémon version of the Devil (despite Arceus being the obvious). First off it seems to have been sealed off as a safety precaution more than as a punishment (although I'm sure Arceus wasn't too happy with its instinctually chaotic nature). Secondly it has absolutely no intentions to tempt or corrupt anyone, it's merely a berserker (and for all we know could still be loyal to Arceus, just too Ax Crazy to keep around).

[Zak Rodgers]

This "Devil" theory is the most common theory surrounding Giratina, but it's been officially debunked by Junichi Masuda.

Giratina wasn't created by Arceus; this is confirmed in Platinum when the legend states it "came into being", not "created". This ties into my theory that it appeared out of necessity and wasn't intentionally created. Even Cynthia mentions this.

I think you're right about it being sealed away as a safety precaution, but I disagree with the bit about it being a berserker and intentionally causing mayhem. By its very nature antimatter is destructive and to stop its cataclysmic properties would mean rewriting the laws of the universe. Can't be done. It's likely Giratina couldn't stop the destruction it was causing, so Arceus intervened and sent Giratina to another world to stop our world from being destroyed.

Giratina is also not really evil - it just got handed the short end of the stick in its balance-keeping role. Remember that without Giratina, there would be no universe, according to Einsteins theory.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

When we discuss Pokemon legendaries we have to take the Japanese background into account.

To me, there's no Devil in the Christian sense. Just gods whose believers deny each other. Of course there's good or bad, but people should take more responsibility of their own actions. I have a friend who says The Bible makes more sense than, say, Veda Myths, but I beg to differ.

About the black hole existence, I'm not good at explaining, but if they were concrete in our dimension the whole dimension would kinda be sucked inside a big one in the end. That's why Hawking said the dimension where black holes 'exist' isn't our dimension. As explained in school books, gigantic stars still lose their life and become black holes, but they don't 'exist' in the same meaning as you and me.

[Zak Rodgers]

I think I understand.
Also, isn't Giratina based off a monster from Japanese(?) mythology who is taller than mountains, looks fairly insectoid and eats people? I'm really sorry if I'm belittling Japanese culture or the myth itself, by the way. It's been ages since I read it and I can't remember details.

[Blademaster]

Not Giratina-related, but the amount of misinformation in this thread pertaining to antimatter is bugging the Hell out of me.

Antimatter isn't some mystical Lovecraftian (non)substance that stops time and destabilizes normal space. It's merely the same fundamental particles that make up everything else, but with some reversed qualities (charge, spin, baryonic/leptonic number, etc.). Particles of antimatter - conveniently called antiparticles - experience the passage of time and exist in space just like normal particles do. And I'm not even talking about them existing in some distant corner of the Universe or some weird unseen dimension like dark matter - our own planet has its fair share, in places like big storm clouds and the Van Allen belts. We've also made antimatter in laboratories by smashing lasers into elements like gold. In fact... YOU produce antimatter: Every day, trace amounts of potassium in your body decay and produce positrons (anti-electrons), which annihilate with actual electrons in your body! Incidentally, you shouldn't have read this spoiler if you get scared easily.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pele5vptVgc)

[Zak Rodgers]

You didn't read the thread properly.
I never claimed that antimatter distorts time/space. I'm well aware that it doesn't. I said that in the DISTORTION WORLD, which is made of antimatter, doesn't follow the rules of time and space. This is probably specific to the Pokèmon universe.

For the record, I really dislike you, Blade. You're kinda pissing me off; don't be so conceited and confrontational.

[Mikachu Yukitatsu]

I should have said 'Wait for Blade!!!'!!!!!!

[Lady Vulpix]

The Pokemon universe does not follow the same rules as our own, so people can speculate freely about how its physics work. Or even if the creation myths are 'real' at all. Still, however they may work, Giratina CAN exist within the regular Pokemon world without destroying it, and can even be defeated in battle by other Pokemon.

[Magmar]

Blade, I did not know that about the potassium; thanks for giving me interesting fodder for Googling later!

Giratina is a weird case. It's sort of a Pokemon and sort of isn't. It has DNA, enough DNA anyway that it can be captured. Yet, by the definition of real!physics, Giratina shouldn't exist.

Therefore, maybe Giratina guts are what Poke Balls are made of ;) since Pokemon lose their mass in the transfer into the Poke Balls...

No really once upon a time Giratina had a bellyache and needed to have its appendix out. The Doctor put its appendix in a jar and traveled about time and space for a while until Donna Noble found it and transferred the knowledge of the universe into it. It became the very first Poke Ball and it was accidentally cloned by some Star Wars jedi knights and a Digimon called Sailor Goku. Today, there are now infinite Poke Balls, their supply is managed by Silph Co., and Donna Noble is still working as a temp and knowing is half the battle.

[Lady Vulpix]

Blade, I did not know that about the potassium; thanks for giving me interesting fodder for Googling later!

Giratina is a weird case. It's sort of a Pokemon and sort of isn't. It has DNA, enough DNA anyway that it can be captured. Yet, by the definition of real!physics, Giratina shouldn't exist.

Therefore, maybe Giratina guts are what Poke Balls are made of ;) since Pokemon lose their mass in the transfer into the Poke Balls...

No really once upon a time Giratina had a bellyache and needed to have its appendix out. The Doctor put its appendix in a jar and traveled about time and space for a while until Donna Noble found it and transferred the knowledge of the universe into it. It became the very first Poke Ball and it was accidentally cloned by some Star Wars jedi knights and a Digimon called Sailor Goku. Today, there are now infinite Poke Balls, their supply is managed by Silph Co., and Donna Noble is still working as a temp and knowing is half the battle.
Hehehe. Lovely explanation!

[Blademaster]

I never claimed that antimatter distorts time/space. I'm well aware that it doesn't. I said that in the DISTORTION WORLD, which is made of antimatter, doesn't follow the rules of time and space.

First off, I didn't say that you said it, or were the only one to.

Second, and more on-topic, I don't agree with your claim that the Distortion World is made of antimatter. As you yourself said, if the Distortion World were made of antimatter, you'd explode when you walk through it (like you do in DPP). Furthermore, antimatter doesn't cause the spatial anomalies seen in the Distortion World, which seems to have a very erratic force of gravity (and which allegedly has no flow of time, but this claim is absolute nonsense in both scientific terms and in-game ones).

The Distortion World seems much more likely to be made of normal clumps of matter arranged in some non-Euclidean way due to Giratina's original designation as a dimensional entity rather than an antimatter-themed one. The differences in Giratina's forms could be tied to this as well: Origin Giratina is stated to be able to effortlessly move through dimensions, while Altered Giratina doesn't have this ability due to the higher gravity of the normal world. Why does this matter to a godlike entity? Well, gravity is defined in physics as a curvature of spacetime. The Distortion World seems to have an earthlike gravity, but it's all broken up across floating chunks. This makes no sense: The chunks should either have too little gravity to stand on (but still enough to eventually all clump together), or they should each be so dense that there's no way they'd all still be separate (Also, they'd probably crush you if you tried.) after however many eons they've been in the Distortion World. So, perhaps the random arrangement of matter in the Distortion World is due to it all being part of the same multidimensional 'planet' overall, but because we can't see more than 3 dimensions, parts of it appear to be missing - the parts that Origin Giratina can move through. The normal world, on the other hand, has only 3 dimensions of space, so there's nothing for Origin Giratina to move through. Its Origin Forme is rendered useless, so it switches to its Altered Forme, which is much better-suited for walking/flying.

...It's admittedly not a much better hypothesis, but it doesn't break the laws of physics quite as blatantly.

[Zak Rodgers]

First off, I didn't say that you said it, or were the only one to.

Second, and more on-topic, I don't agree with your claim that the Distortion World is made of antimatter. As you yourself said, if the Distortion World were made of antimatter, you'd explode when you walk through it (like you do in DPP). Furthermore, antimatter doesn't cause the spatial anomalies seen in the Distortion World, which seems to have a very erratic force of gravity (and which allegedly has no flow of time, but this claim is absolute nonsense in both scientific terms and in-game ones).

The Distortion World seems much more likely to be made of normal clumps of matter arranged in some non-Euclidean way due to Giratina's original designation as a dimensional entity rather than an antimatter-themed one. The differences in Giratina's forms could be tied to this as well: Origin Giratina is stated to be able to effortlessly move through dimensions, while Altered Giratina doesn't have this ability due to the higher gravity of the normal world. Why does this matter to a godlike entity? Well, gravity is defined in physics as a curvature of spacetime. The Distortion World seems to have an earthlike gravity, but it's all broken up across floating chunks. This makes no sense: The chunks should either have too little gravity to stand on (but still enough to eventually all clump together), or they should each be so dense that there's no way they'd all still be separate (Also, they'd probably crush you if you tried.) after however many eons they've been in the Distortion World. So, perhaps the random arrangement of matter in the Distortion World is due to it all being part of the same multidimensional 'planet' overall, but because we can't see more than 3 dimensions, parts of it appear to be missing - the parts that Origin Giratina can move through. The normal world, on the other hand, has only 3 dimensions of space, so there's nothing for Origin Giratina to move through. Its Origin Forme is rendered useless, so it switches to its Altered Forme, which is much better-suited for walking/flying.

...It's admittedly not a much better hypothesis, but it doesn't break the laws of physics quite as blatantly.

The whole theme of this thread is the possibility of breaking the laws of physics. And the effects of the distortion world are spatial anomalies, not purely gravitational.

Actually, you know what, screw it. Cut the bullshit, Blade. Everything you post seems like an attack. I dunno if you have a confrontation fetish or a desire to try and make everything anyone says sound stupid or what. I've seen a lot of your posts, not just on my own threads. Believe it or not, your opinion is not bloody law. I could sit and rant for hours but I'm not gonna give a lowlife like you the satisfaction, so I'll just say this regardless of the consequences: Fuck you, you shitty asshole.

[Lady Vulpix]

Zak Rodgers and Blademaster, if you can't have a discussion without fighting, then you should stop posting here at all.

And Zak, while Blade's posts did seem confrontational, yours cointains a direct attack and that is clearly against the rules. So stop it. Now.

[Oslo]

i like giratina :U it has lots of legs it is cool