Speculate, My Puppets. Speculate!

[Nikku-San]

Hehe, I thought I'd start a speculation topic to share some ideas of mine...

Well, for one, who else here thinks Satoshi will have another run-in with Mew and Mewtwo? I mean, come on, Ash is 'destined for greatness' and Mew hasn't yet made a return, plus the fact that they are both important characters... I think that they will for sure return and Mewtwo will be a total allie, after all that happened in Mewtwo Returns. Maybe he will fight against Deokishisu in the future.

And then there's Celebi... I have not yet seen Voice Of The Forest, so I don't know much about Celebi and Suicune working together... But it seems they have some kind of friendship. Anyway, if Celebi returns I would like to see Professor Oak involved.

Ho-Oh is a Pokemon I really want to find out more about. Is it really dead? And how on Earth did it create 3 Legendary Pokemon? Does it hate humans that much? So many questions to be asked, so much mystery surrounding it and now that someone who isn't a total dumb-*** is writing Pokemon, perhaps we will find out more...

Now, for the three Legendary Beasts. Entei... That wasn't a real Entei in Movie 3, so scratch him from the list. But I hear an Entei appears later in Season 5... Now, I dunno what happens then, but, ignoring that, I think a lot could be done with Entei. First, like the other Legendary Beasts, he died in a terrible fire and was given new life. His job is to keep humans in check and report to his master and creator. But, he seems to be the big and cuddly type. You know, the most likely to form a friendship with humans. Now, what if he does befriend humans and then Ho-Oh orders him to kill them all. First of all, he knows that's just wrong. But Ho-Oh gave him life when humans gave him death... A hard decision to make. And you know there will be peer pressure from the other 2 Legendary Beasties...

Then there is Suicune... He has helped humans twice that I know of, one time I haven't seen yet. But i would take him as the coldest of the 3 beasts. (He is the re-incarnation of the north wind ya know :P ) Anyway, he just seems like a no-nonsense type. But, since they have already given him the human's friend part... Maybe he will think that humans aren't so bad at first. But then Eusine pushes the limits trying to capture him, forcing him to take the life of his Pokemon and possibly even Eusine's... He will soon come to see that Raikou was right about humans and they truly are a waste... Of course Raikou has recently teamed up with 2 of them to beat an evil organization of them... That could complicate matters...

Raikou... I think he would be the best bad-*** beast. After LoRT, he will ponder on the help Kenta and Marina gave him. He will come to the conclusion that they are 2 good in a world of evil. And so he will stick firm to his beliefs about humans. He will help to pull Suicune to his side and go against the human loving Entei. This could result in an awesome saga (not a movie, I hope) involving Thunderstorms, volcanic eruptions and... Whatever Suicune does, floods or something. Of course Lugia and the other 3 Legendary birds could get involved, protecting humans which leads to my next idea....

Lugia VS Ho-Oh. Lugia is fighting for Humans, Ho-Oh fighting against them... Of course anything involving Lugia will seem retarded now after that 3 part thing... Oh well. This will be the one from the movie. Anyway, the battle could be one written long ago in prophecies of Armageddon...

Wow, a lot of ideas, but I'm not done yet...

The death of Ash's mom. Okay, she won't really be killed. But if someone lead him to believe so... Yes, that could make for an interesting story indeed. We will see exactly how far Ash will go for vengeance...

The death of Professor Oak. This may not be something that is all an illusion. Somehow, be it heart attack, bad fever or Team Rocket, Oak could die. It would greatly effect Ash. And if it happened after the false death of his mom, this would be the first real death in his life. It would seem unreal and he wouldn't believe it... This could make him grow up a lot.

Evolution... Or Devolution... Of Pikachu. Now that could be a HUGE turning point. I would far prefer Devolution, but I don't know HOW they could explain it. Honestly, I have no idea, unless it's a Devolution potion. But seeing Pikachu reverted to a cute, but somewhat powerless state would keep him in there, but make room for other Pokemon to get more action.

Battle with Giovanni. I would REALLY like to see this. Ash VS Giovanni 6 on 6. This would clear up a lot of speculation and mis-conception...

And that's about all for now. I really stretched it...

[RaichuRocks]

I think Satoshi will see Mewtwo/Mew again

I think Raikou will be a good legendary
Kenta and Marina influenced it enough to trust the right humans

I want Pikachu to evolve at least at the end

If we ever see Ritche again, it could be possible for him to have a Raichu(no restraints like Ash's Pikachu)

[The Rusted One]

Pikachu devolving? I'm sorry, but that seems like the most ill-thought-out speculatory statement ever. Evolution is permanent; it's like saying to a butterfly, "okay, go back into your chrysalis, and turn back into a caterpillar. Okay?" That whole thing would make Pokemon the series a cause of mass hysteria - people would be upset and others would laugh their heads off. Either way, Pokemon would lose a major part of its fanbase, and would eventually cease production. Devolution is the single most silly thing I've ever heard.

[Topaz Pochena]

WHY do you think Ho-oh and the beasts want to destroy humans? That isn't based on the Games or Anime...

[Mew2Too]

Originally posted by Kittymon
Ho-Oh is a Pokemon I really want to find out more about. Is it really dead? And how on Earth did it create 3 Legendary Pokemon? Does it hate humans that much? So many questions to be asked, so much mystery surrounding it and now that someone who isn't a total dumb-*** is writing Pokemon, perhaps we will find out more...

I love your specualtion, and if it had basis, I would probably end up making a two part fanfic about it. "Pokemon JTC: Kurisu and Myutsuu versus Teh Legendary Dogs and Ho-Oh."

But, what makes you think this is so? If Ho-Oh hated humans, why would he have created guardians to protect them? There were humans who fought against the ancient clan that tried to take Ho-Oh's power for their own. (I believe it was an ancient form of Team Rocket that was spoken of.) Ho-Oh destroyed the ancient team, but its tower was burnt to the ground in the process. The winds - whatever they were - were also killed. (If you really want to speculate, you could say that they were three new incarnations of a special and ancient breed of Zapdos, Articuno, and Moltres.) Ho-Oh ressurected them to protect the humans that had defended it, and then set off. ( For planet Terra, if you want to hear my speculation! :D )

[RedStarWarrior]

Ho-oh is the Pokémon equivilence of the the Pheonix, right? If you want to know more about why some people believe that Ho-oh is 'dead' then read up on the Pheonix.

[The Rusted One]

Depends on whether it was based on the Greek phoenix, which was reborn in flames, or if it was based on the Asian phoenix, which doesn't necessarily follow the same guidelines or share the same features as the Greek/Western one.

[Mew2Too]

Originally posted by The Rusted One
Depends on whether it was based on the Greek phoenix, which was reborn in flames, or if it was based on the Asian phoenix, which doesn't necessarily follow the same guidelines or share the same features as the Greek/Western one.

Well, there is the fact that it holds "Sacred Ash." I believe there was something about Ho-Oh burning itself to dust and then resurrecting itself every 500 years. That was what tipped us off that it was the Phoenix, originally.

[Aureon]

I'm not really clear on that whole Ho oh/Legendary Dog thing. I heard that Entie was born from the flames and Suicune was born from the waters that tried to put it out.

We already know some links between Legendaries either with other Legendaries or average Pokemon:

Mew>MewTwo
3 Legendary Birds>Lugia
3 Legendary Dogs>Ho oh
Entie>Unown (they must have known about Entie to make a fake one)
Suicune>Celebi

Possibly:
Kyogre>Groudon>Rekkuuza
Abusoru>Jiraachi>Deokishisu (or maybe Deo fights with MewTwo)

Mew, Celebi and Jiraachi could be linked in that they guard the Past, Future and Space.

[The Rusted One]

Originally posted by Aureon
I'm not really clear on that whole Ho oh/Legendary Dog thing. I heard that Entie was born from the flames and Suicune was born from the waters that tried to put it out.

We already know some links between Legendaries either with other Legendaries or average Pokemon:

Mew>MewTwo
3 Legendary Birds>Lugia
3 Legendary Dogs>Ho oh
Entie>Unown (they must have known about Entie to make a fake one)
Suicune>Celebi

Possibly:
Kyogre>Groudon>Rekkuuza
Abusoru>Jiraachi>Deokishisu (or maybe Deo fights with MewTwo)

Mew, Celebi and Jiraachi could be linked in that they guard the Past, Future and Space.

I'd say that the first three of your connections are right. Now the fourth I wouldn't; Unown are psychic and were responding to Molly's thoughts, etc., and she identified her father as being like Entei. So the Unown just used that to form a false Entei. There is no connection between the two species - Unown was using Molly's thoughts, etc., to act. And besides this, they are a powerful psychic pokemon, and one of the common attributes of psychic ability is knowing things without being taught them or shown them. So perhaps the Unown just knew of Entei, and all the other pokemon, and used that too.
I wouldn't say that there was a strong connection between Celebi and Suicune either; Suicune, if I'm not mistaken, was mainly in the movie to purify the water - something that has no connection with Celebi at all.

Now, we KNOW that there is a link between Kyogre (*shudder* I hate that name...) and Groudon, so you should have put that in the "definite connection" section, but I'm not so sure that there is a connection between them and Rekkuuza. Nothing has been mentioned, and it isn't as if "air" is the opposite of fire OR water. However, they could have an unknown connection, and we have yet to find out about it.

I think perhaps making a connection between Abusoru and the two legendaries from space is a bit of a stretch. Sure, Abusoru appears to be special, but that doesn't mean it's on the same level as Jiraachi or Deokishisu.

And a Mew-Celebi-Jiraachi connectin based on past-present-space? I don't see it. Perhaps past-present-future, because that would make sense (you don't hear people saying, "in the past...and in the present...and in the space..."). But perhaps they're only linked by the fact that they're all psychic? I mean, so far, that's all they've got in common, aside from their status.

[Nikku-San]

Just about everything I said about Ho-Oh I got from "For Ho-Oh The Bells Toll". And I'm pretty sure the 3 Legendary Beasts are there not to protect humans but preserve the balance and keep them in check.

And as for the Devolution stuff, I got that from the TCG and you are probably right. That is one of my less great ideas.

[Aureon]

I said Past, FUTURE and Space, I didn't mention present.

Rukkuuza would fit in that trio, because if they tried to make a movie about them they'de have to introduce a third factor (another pokemon) to stop them fighting, like Lugia did with the 3 Legendary Birds. This is a very minor point but IMO Rekkuuza has the exact same 'style' as the other 2. Also, they have the same eyes. (? I don't know the point of that last thing).

Abusoru>Jiraachi is now very likely...apparantly the bringers of Disaster and Wishes respectively...

[The Rusted One]

Originally posted by Aureon
I said Past, FUTURE and Space, I didn't mention present.

Rukkuuza would fit in that trio, because if they tried to make a movie about them they'de have to introduce a third factor (another pokemon) to stop them fighting, like Lugia did with the 3 Legendary Birds. This is a very minor point but IMO Rekkuuza has the exact same 'style' as the other 2. Also, they have the same eyes. (? I don't know the point of that last thing).

Abusoru>Jiraachi is now very likely...apparantly the bringers of Disaster and Wishes respectively...

I'm sorry, but regardless of time period, it still has no connection with space. I mean, right now, you're splitting hairs, and the whole point of what I was saying doesn't change with your "I said this, not that" argument.
And it doesn't matter how many pokemon there are to battle - Ash will likely be the third party in this Kyogre-Groudon battle; eliminating the need to include Rekkuuza. I mean, Ash is "special" - and making him seem so cool and good and powerful seems to be the main point of every movie.

[Pokemon Neo]

Well,here are a couple of my theories.


-Giovanni is Ash's father
-Domino is Ash's Sister
-Domino is Gio's and Delia's long lost daughter
-Bashou and Lawrence III are father and son.
-Bashou also came from a very wealthy family.
-Bashou and James knew each other when they were kids.
-Hopefully,there will be a new series where Ash and Co. are older.Ash-around 17 or 18 years old,Misty-around 17 or 18 years old,etc.The series will be called Pokemon Neo.:D


I have more,but I want to keep some for myself.:P

[The Rusted One]

Originally posted by Pokemon Neo
Well,here are a couple of my theories.


-Giovanni is Ash's father
-Domino is Ash's Sister
-Domino is Gio's and Delia's long lost daughter
-Bashou and Lawrence III are father and son.
-Bashou also came from a very wealthy family.
-Bashou and James knew each other when they were kids.
-Hopefully,there will be a new series where Ash and Co. are older.Ash-around 17 or 18 years old,Misty-around 17 or 18 years old,etc.The series will be called Pokemon Neo.:D


I have more,but I want to keep some for myself.:P

Great, yet another person who loves making wild speculatory guesses based on little to no evidence and going for the cliche, "I am your father", Star Wars plot. Even your "Domino is Giovanni and Delia's long-lost daughter" is quite obviously reminiscent of Princess Leia. Which then means that Ash is Domino's brother. Hmmm, Luke is Leia's brother. And, according to you, Ash is Giovanni's son. Hmmm, Luke is Darth Vader's son.

I think it's about time for you to base speculation on evidence in POKEMON, not Star Wars.

[Pokemon Neo]

Originally posted by The Rusted One
Great, yet another person who loves making wild speculatory guesses based on little to no evidence and going for the cliche, "I am your father", Star Wars plot. Even your "Domino is Giovanni and Delia's long-lost daughter" is quite obviously reminiscent of Princess Leia. Which then means that Ash is Domino's brother. Hmmm, Luke is Leia's brother. And, according to you, Ash is Giovanni's son. Hmmm, Luke is Darth Vader's son.

I think it's about time for you to base speculation on evidence in POKEMON, not Star Wars.



Your point being.....


I'm not a big Star Wars fan so I can less give a rats @$$ if it's reminiscent of Star Wars.:rolleyes:


This is what I personally believe and I don't give a flying 'fudge' what people think.


You seem to just be commenting on other peoples posts on this thread.Why don't you post some of your own theories?

[The Rusted One]

MY speculation is that Ash will never catch one of each pokemon as he said he would at the start of the series; I also believe that Ash's father will never be revealed, but perhaps we will find out who he is; in my opinion, Giovanni being Ash's father is just baseless guessing, and at the root of it lies a wish to create a "sensation". I believe Ash's father is just an average pokemon trainer; or at least was - there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.
I also believe that Ash and his friends will never visibly or mentally age beyond what they are now - a fault, perhaps, in the animation and writing, but nevertheless there seems to be no indication that any such ageing of characters will occur.
Also, I believe that Misty and Ash probably will end up confessing that they like each other; not love, as they are still in their early teens, or at least almost. There have been too many hints for this to be forgotten about, but I do think that it will be one of the last things to be dealt with; otherwise the writers will have to spend a lot of time dealing with that rather than the actual "Pokemon Master" storyline.

[RJdude]

Okay, let me clear things up on Ho-oh...

The Legend of Ho-oh goes that there was once a tower in Ecreteuk City (Sorry, I can't spell) that was home to Ho-oh, the mythical bird of flames. Ho-oh watched over the humans from it's tower, and protected them. But one day, a couple of humans set the tower on fire, and three nameless Pokemon died in the tower. Ho-oh, angry at what the humans did, left Ecreteuk, but not before resurecting the three Pokemon, and turning them into powerful legendary Pokemon. These Pokemon would be Ho-oh's messangers, to watch over humans for it, until the day that humans and Pokemon would get along in perferct harmony, for that is when Ho-oh will return.

I think why Ho-oh shows up to Ash and no one else is because Ho-oh beleives that Ash is the one who will unite Humans and Pokemon, and bring it back, or something like that.

However, I like your theory on how Entei will be the big, friendly guy and will stay with humans, while Raikou will hold a grudge againist them (except for Kenta and Marina. Hmm... Maybe they will make a return to convince Raikou to stop) and will fight Entei. However, Suicune, who I can see as the most loyal of the three beasts, will remain loyal to Ho-oh and will either try to stop the two of them, or will stay out alltogether.

[Runpapa]

It'd suck if they were ever caught. Shame on Gamefreak for enabling that ability.

[Rei_Zero]

About the Rekkuza Groudon Kaiorga theory, Ash is just a human being so it will still take Rekkuza to stop them, but Ash will help. However, I find it a better theory if Rekkuza is the lord of both Groudon and Kaiorga and when his wrath is provoked then all nature loses control and all harmony will be destroyed. The 3 birds and beasts will lose control, while Mew, Celebi, and Jirachi worry. Ho-oh and Lugia will try there best to calm the trio that they are under control of. Mewtwo would feel something is wrong and maybe investigate. Latios and Latias will helplessly try to plead with him to stop. (After all, in the fifth movie it is said a gaurdian made them and since they are dragons and Rekkuza is like a god, well you know). In this scenario the Rejis were created to stop Rekkuza in his rage so the Rejis will reawaken.

And the time space thing does have a connection. Ultimately, Space exists because time exists. Also, the existance of space is what let time continues. Therefore, Jirachi and Celebi would be linked together. Then Mew is the ancestor of both Jirachi and Celebi and also holds the key to knowing the past (since Mew is supposed to be the first pokemon to ever exist)

Deokishu would be kinda like Mewtwo, an experiment gone completely wrong. The scientists would probably be studying space viruses and there reaction to different radiations to see how they can survive the radiation of space. In doing so they may hope to discover if these viruses can mutate to form different species and unlock the birth of life on Earth. Since he is by creation a mutated multicelled space virus he would have a thirst for destruction.

My theories may sound pretty imaginitive and looney but it holds a lot of logic and thought in them.

[The Rusted One]

Rei: problem with the whole space-time connection is that you, nor anyone else here, in all probability (apart from, of course, phantasmal, who knows ALL...yeah right) understands it.
You're basing your statements on over-cliched physics theories that people are continuously speaking of in shows like Star trek and all that. That's all.
You, no offence, probably have no idea how they could be connected at all (nor do I, for that matter...but you don't see me arguing my case with evidence I dont' understand), and are just spitting out what television has told you.
Besides this, most people watching/playing pokemon would know either, so creating such a bond between thee three pokemon would be pointless - not even if it is said in a movie would anybody understand it properly.
Also, why would the shain go "past-present-space" or whatever it was? Space, no matter what you may think you know, doesn't constitute part of that little timeline. It doesn't go, "in the past...in the present...in the future...and in the space..." - because space is a thing, the future is a concept. It doesn't conect in any feasible way to do with pokemon, sorry. If it were "Quantaphysimon", then yes, it would, but it's not. It's pokemon.

[Rei_Zero]

The problem is that when there is no space (I am refering to space as the universe here) there is no time because space is the reality we live and time is how we record events in space in chronological order. Time is the length of space. When/If space goes away we will have no time because the universe would not exist anymore. Time is what influences the universes growth and the universe is what starts time. When the big bang happened matter was created and in time the matter formed objects. However, nothing would form if the big bang didn't start so time could not continue.

[The Rusted One]

Which is pretty vague and basic...I mean, if you were to substitute "mould" where "space" is, you could, disregarding the Big Bang part, make sense of it still.
What you say doesn't really provide a connection, it just points out the glaringly obvious that could be applied to almost anything.

Besides this, time as WE see it would not continue if there was no Big Bang or the Universe imploded, but time itself would. The only thing is, our measurements of time would not work as there would be nothing to base them on and they wouldn't exist. Nor would we, of course, but time still would.

[Rei_Zero]

That is the whole point. Time is how the universe measures events in chronological order. If you were to remove the universe time would have no meaning and therefore time would not exist.

[The Rusted One]

Actually, time would still exist, even without meaning.

"L".

What meaning does this letter as I have written it have? Nothing. Yet it still exists. Just because it has no meaning doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Besides, nothing you've said has told me how a connection between past, present and space would work. You've tried, but unsuccessfully - are you able to offer anymore explanation than this?

[Rei_Zero]

Yes. Like I have said time would have no meaning if there were no events to correspond with time. So even if time did exist its meaning would be shattered without the universe or some other object. Therefore, if time were to be of importance, then something must exist. Also, the universe corresponds with time for events to happen. If I remember clearly things that correspond with eachother have some link. Ultimately you could say that time corresponds with everything but the universe is where it starts. Without the universe objects that we know of would not exist, but for it to exist it still takes time for the universe to create.

[The Rusted One]

That still isn't reason enough to warrant people saying that Celebi and Jiirachi are conencted because of that, and that's what my point is; unless there are specifics saying, "Jiirachi is connected with Celebi via the time-space continuum", then there really isn't any reason to say that there's a connection at all. Besides this, unless Jiirachi is the "Space" pokemon, it can't be said that it is - Celebi was the timetravel pokemon, but Jiirachi isn't the space pokemon, so you can't really make a connection through the classifications.

[Rei_Zero]

Oh. So you see my point. Anyways, we speculate Jirachi as the space pokemon because he exists in the comet that grants wishes.

[The Rusted One]

I never properly disagreed, but I was never in total agreement, and still am not. But that was beginning to move away from what was the actual start of this little discussion - a supposed connection between Jiirachi and Celebi.
The pokedex classifications are just translated from those in the Japanese version - so it would still be the "wish" pokemon, if people have translated it correctly.

[Rei_Zero]

It all corresponds with the time and space stuff, if jirachi has values in space. If not then it is just a theory blown outta the water.