Ash's Father

[poken1611]

I am not sure if anyone posted this already but since it is close to fathers day I might as well. Now does any one have any info/news about his dad a little picture rumours or something. If you do post it please.

[BenRG]

Ash's father remains an enigma. A promise in the producers' commentary of the second movie DVD to reveal more about him fell through and no one has mentioned it again.

We know very little about Ash's father, all-in-all. We know that he is (or was) a Pokémon Trainer like Ash is. We know that he had a very close relationship with Ash. Finally, we know that he has never been seen once in the history of the animé.

So who is he? There are four leading theories, if I am correct:[list=1] Giovanni of Team Rocket (DiamondShipping)
Professor Oak (ElderShipping)
Lance of the Elite Four (ChampionShipping)
Some unknown and un-named individual on the roads somewhere[/list=1]Some have also named Professor Hale from the third movie, but I find it unlikely that Ash would have so many memories of his father if he was the result of an affair with a married man.

My own favorite candidate at the moment is the unknown man. I used to like the concept of Lance, but he seems too young to be Ash's father. Besides, you would have expected some kind of family interaction in the Red Gyarados episodes if Ash were related to the man.

[Team Rocket's Lugia]

Originally posted by BenRG
Ash's father remains an enigma. A promise in the producers' commentary of the second movie DVD to reveal more about him fell through and no one has mentioned it again.

We know very little about Ash's father, all-in-all. We know that he is (or was) a Pokémon Trainer like Ash is. We know that he had a very close relationship with Ash. Finally, we know that he has never been seen once in the history of the anim?

So who is he? There are four leading theories, if I am correct:[list=1] Giovanni of Team Rocket (DiamondShipping)
Professor Oak (ElderShipping)
Lance of the Elite Four (ChampionShipping)
Some unknown and un-named individual on the roads somewhere[/list=1]Some have also named Professor Hale from the third movie, but I find it unlikely that Ash would have so many memories of his father if he was the result of an affair with a married man.

My own favorite candidate at the moment is the unknown man. I used to like the concept of Lance, but he seems too young to be Ash's father. Besides, you would have expected some kind of family interaction in the Red Gyarados episodes if Ash were related to the man.

Prof. Oak!?! Then it would be Ash Oak!

I fav is Giovanni, it seems likely they got divorced, and Delia never mentions it.

[Bacl]

Plus if it was Oak then Gary would be Ash's brother. Where the heck are Gary's parents anyway?

This Giovanni stuff has been bunked and debunked and bunkified so many times I don't know where the issue currently stands.

But it is too bad that the leader of Petalburg Gym is not going to be Ash's father. What a watse. It would make sense that Ash's old man was a gym leader, and it could have served as a better excuse to leave Kanto for Hoen (i.e. Ash's mom says they are moving to Little Root, etc.)

[Andrew]

Well in the Movie 3 commentry, the big bosses PROMISED us Ash's father in Season 5 because apparently the Japanese Big Wigs promised them. Now while we are like up to season 7 or something, I'm pretty sure we can say they lied. Truth is, Ash's father is *thinks* Brock's dad cause he ran away and shacked up with Deliah.

I have to go now.

[Bacl]

Originally posted by OzAndrew
Well in the Movie 3 commentry, the big bosses PROMISED us Ash's father in Season 5 because apparently the Japanese Big Wigs promised them. Now while we are like up to season 7 or something, I'm pretty sure we can say they lied. Truth is, Ash's father is *thinks* Brock's dad cause he ran away and shacked up with Deliah.

I have to go now.

Well I've got news for you: The people in charge of doing the English versions of Pokemon...have no say whatsoever in anything...at all! Guess what they get to do? Translate the episodes and figure out which of their five voice actors does which voice. The biggest accomplishment those so called "big-wigs" have ever done in regards to Pokemon is calling that Japanese rice ball dessert donuts and sandwiches (I forget the name because they never use it in the show).

[The Rusted One]

I'm pretty sure Oz knows that...

But the fact is, because there is no proof or evidence for any of the first three claims, Ash's father being a normal person who is or was a trainer is the most likely, out of those four options at least.

[Animelee]

http://sekichiku.freehosting.net/faq_satoshi.htm#FAQsatoshi

and

http://sekichiku.freehosting.net/ep_novta_04.htm

[Pewter City Geodude]

Originally posted by Bacl
Plus if it was Oak then Gary would be Ash's brother. Where the heck are Gary's parents anyway?

Not true. Gary is Oak's grandson, so if Oak was Ash's father, Ash would be Gary's uncle, strange as it sounds. :o

[Nace]

Ash wouldn't call Oak "Professor Oak" all the time if he was his father. 'nuff said.

[Pokemon Neo]

Originally posted by Bacl

This Giovanni stuff has been bunked and debunked and bunkified so many times I don't know where the issue currently stands.




*starts turning into the Hulk*



Please don't tell me that Mewtwo Returns is involved in the "debunkifying".-_-;


rage....

rising.........

[BenRG]

Originally posted by Nace
Ash wouldn't call Oak "Professor Oak" all the time if he was his father. 'nuff said. That isn't automatically true. We've never seen Ash and the Professor alone together. It could happen that, when they are in private, Ash calls him 'dad'. However, because he is the result of an extramarital affair, and the Professor cannot have a scandal like that in his important position, Delia and the Professor have trained Ash to refer to his father simply by his academic title when other people are around.

Eldershipping would also explain Ash's strong reaction to meeting Sammy in Pokémon 4EVER. If Ash figured out early on that he had met a younger version of his father, it would be like a dream come true for him. He would, at last, have the chance to Journey with his father, something that the weight of academic politics had previously made impossible.

It is a long shot, I know, but it does work. You will note that I don't support ElderShipping to this level. I remain convinced that Ash will come across some loser out in the wilds of Houen or Kanto and will whup his @$$ before snarling: "I have no father" and storming off, a bewildered Brock and Misty (or May and Masato, depending on the region) in tow. 8)

[EDIT - Added the bit about Sammy Oak]

[Shakespeare]

All those options are possibilities, but I tend to dislike the Professor Oak theory the most. I always used to assume Giovanni was Ash's father as they never met face to face (other than Mewtwo Returns). Just a random bit of trivia, isn't it strange Ash and Giovanni have never battled? There was a reason the writers avoided Ash vs. Giovanni back in the Kanto league.

[Rei_Zero]

Its quite obvious why the never met face to face. If they never met, Ash wouldn't know who the head of Team Rocket was and would probably not be able to defeat Team Rocket. I think that there is more evidence of Ash's father as a stray trainer. What if Ash's father started a new life and never came back? Could Ash's father be Richie's father? It would explain how brotherly their like and their common appearance. Ash and Richie could possibly be half brothers, and Ash's father remarried after leaving home in shame.

And remember, Ash knows what his father looks like. If the writers really want to they can make an episode where Ash meets his grandfather and his father. As both seem to be missing.

[The Rusted One]

The reason why Giovanni and Ash didn't battle in Kanto was to tie in properly with the first Pokémon movie, which is the only movie that can be accurately placed in the running of the animé (they did it quite well, really, featuring bits of Gary's battle with Mewtwo in the beginning parts of the movie, etc.). If they changed the story at all to suit something else, things wouldn't quite match up.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Oh, how many times have I seem this topic! But I'll answer anyway, I won't have a fit.

I think Ash's dad is some master trainer out in some region training Pokemon. Lance is just too young for Ash, after seeing him in the show. Professor Oak... no. It sounds funny, but no. Same with Giovanni.

[Entropy]

Originally posted by Bacl
Well I've got news for you: The people in charge of doing the English versions of Pokemon...have no say whatsoever in anything...at all! Guess what they get to do? Translate the episodes and figure out which of their five voice actors does which voice. The biggest accomplishment those so called "big-wigs" have ever done in regards to Pokemon is calling that Japanese rice ball dessert donuts and sandwiches (I forget the name because they never use it in the show).

Your statement has no backing. 4Kids, the entertainment company begind Pokemon has more control than you think. The issues you mentioned don't have to be dealt with no longer since 4Kids went straight to the Japanese production team and practically dictated what they wanted. First of all, they have Brock ousted because 4Kids didn't think he was 'appealing to American audiences'. Interpret that as you wish. From all that, observe the lack of an Japanese references of culture and you'll see how 4Kids has been successful in cleansing the anime in the quest to Americanize the entire series and exploit their position. Other examples include the mishandling of the movies. For example, look at all of the added scenes in '4Ever' and the massive story changes in 'Heroes'. In a way, I can't help but think if the anime would have progressed differently radically if 4Kids didn't manipulate the producers so much...

Of course, this problem is a double-sword. You can't help but wonder why the producers were so easy to follow 4Kids' commands...

[Hanada Tattsu]

Originally posted by Entropy
Of course, this problem is a double-sword. You can't help but wonder why the producers were so easy to follow 4Kids' commands...

I agree, why did OLM give in so easily to 4Kids' demands? I think 4Kids bribed the Japanese producers to butcher and change the anime.

[Entropy]

I concur. It all comes down to money...it's too bad OLM would stoop that low, assuming it's true. I guess they were desparate.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Originally posted by Entropy
I concur. It all comes down to money...it's too bad OLM would stoop that low, assuming it's true. I guess they were desparate.

In early Indigo, OLM had the upper hand, even when America started dubbing. But when Pokemon got hot among kids, 4Kids took control of the oppurtunity.

[Entropy]

Even more so, when 4Kids was sure that Pokemon was losing ground, they moved on to other targets. Yu-Gi-Oh! comes to mind. You can see all the profit they could make from that, but even then, that is quickly dying down as well.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Originally posted by Entropy
Even more so, when 4Kids was sure that Pokemon was losing ground, they moved on to other targets. Yu-Gi-Oh! comes to mind. You can see all the profit they could make from that, but even then, that is quickly dying down as well. \

But why is Yu-gi-oh losing popularity so much faster than Pokemon ever did? It's so confusing...

[Entropy]

You can look at it at so many perspectives...but I think it's most likely that 4Kids was desparate. So, they decided to force it down our throats even more fiercely than Pokemon....the faster it goes, the faster it falls...

[Hanada Tattsu]

Originally posted by Entropy
You can look at it at so many perspectives...but I think it's most likely that 4Kids was desparate. So, they decided to force it down our throats even more fiercely than Pokemon....the faster it goes, the faster it falls...

Gotcha, 'tis a shame, the dub of Yugioh could really have made a big impact in the US...

[Entropy]

It already did. It gave the receiving end a sick feeling and they wound up developing a stereotypical view of the franchise...all for the gain of executives.

[Pokemon Neo]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.Ash and Giovanni have NOT met face to face in Mewtwo Returns.


There are only 3 main scenes in the special where Giovanni has "seen" Ash.



The first 2 has Ash and Gio a good 30-40 yards apart.

1.When Ash tries to help Mewtwo up after he destroyed the robots,Gio suddenly appears behind Ash and Co. with Ash looking over his shoulder.Here,Gio only sees the top right half of Ash's face.

2.As soon as Gio demands that Ash and Co. hand over Mewtwo,Misty and Brock instantly release all of their pokemon with Onix covering around 95% of Ash's body.At this point,Gio can only see the top half of Ash's face.With Ash's cap on,it's almost as if he's wearing a mask.

BTW,both these scenes combined only last for around 10 seconds.


The last scene has Ash and Gio even farther apart than the first two.In this one,they're at least 70-100 yards apart.

3.Alright,this is the only scene where Gio gets a front view Ash.The problem is,they're both really far away from each other.Not to mention this is a VERY short scene.I'm pretty sure it only lasts for around 5 seconds.As soon as Gio arrives at the lake,Mewtwo flys out of the water,says his lines,and starts to teleport the whole mountain top.


Now some of you might be thinking,"What about Ash's perspective?" True,it seems more likely that Ash got a better look at Gio than Gio at Ash.But in anycase,everything happened SO fast from both Gio's and Ash's perspective.There wasn't nearly enough time for either of them to start thinking,"Hmm,he seems familiar to me....".


My point is that the writers again went out of their way to keep these two in dark about each other.In Mewtwo Returns case,WAY out of their way.All I'm saying is that after 300+ episodes,6 movies,and 8 specials,Ash has yet to meet this person face to face who is pretty much the main antagonist in the Pokemon anime.Logic dictates that the writers want to set up something really big between these two.And it only keeps on getting bigger and bigger as time goes on.After this long,can you really blame anybody if they believe that there might be a slight possibility that the writers may have played around with the idea of Gio being Ash's dad? Maybe they haven't decided on the right script and are still tweaking with it.Yes,this is all speculation.But in this case,I believe the speculation is justified.


Also,a lot of people think that it would be too much of a cliché if Gio turns out to be Ash's father.I say it would be cliché only if the writers decide making it into one.I realize that this putting a lot faith on the writers,but if they somehow come up with a clever story connecting the two,I really don't see the harm.I'll use the anime "RahXephon" as an example.In terms of story,this anime has elements from Evangelion,Gundam,and the Matrix but it doesn't really bring anything new to the table.But the anime is so well presented and so cleverly written that it manages to stand on it's own.I think the same can go for a story involving Ash and Gio.



Anyway,I got two questions.

1.A long time ago I heard that in one of the Pokemon mangas Ash/Red meets up with Giovanni in the Safari Zone and that the two feel some sort of odd connection between each other.So,is this true?Or was it just some rumor? If it does turn out to be true,I'm not saying that it is a full on hint that Gio might be Ash's dad.But as far as all things Pokemon are concerned and all the other "Ash's daddy" candidates,this puts Gio way ahead of the game.

2.I read on this thread that Ash knows what his father looks like.Now,I mainly follow the Pokemon anime and I'm pretty sure I've never heard any mention of this.Does anyone mind telling me where this is said?I could've missed something.

[BenRG]

I think that the Japanese producers are back in control of the animé, IMHO. Firstly, in the third and fourth seasons, we see a lot more of Johto's Japanese-based culture (like the kimono girls and the oriental archetecture). Furthermore, it was a 4Kids producer who said he wanted more overt AAML shipping in ths show. That this hasn't happens clearly demonstrates that people have over-estimated 4Kids' influence over major policy for the animé.

4Kids only had influence at the time of the Orange Islands season because Pokémon was a craze at the time and Medianet had to bow to the presumed wishes of the audience that was creating a large proportion of their income from the property.

Given that the dub of the animé is being deliberately 'run down' (witness the sporadic showing of new episodes on many networks and the non-dubbing of many special episodes and TV movies), I think that 4Kids have almost no influence left.

[Entropy]

Mmm, thank you for that insightful information.

[Animelee]

Extracts from ‘æˆê�Í�@—·—§‚¿‚Í�AƒpƒWƒƒƒ}‚Ì‚Ü‚Ü‚Å�B(Extracts from Chapter 1. Starting on a Journey by Putting on My Pyjamas)

(POCKET MONSTERS ; The Animation)

Written by Shudou Takeshi.

"---I can't sleep." Satoshi said.
Hanako said with striking Satoshi's pillow.
"Sure, I can understand your feeling. All the people of 10 years old and over are aiming to be a pokemon trainer in this town. Your dad, your grandpa ---and yourself---." When she said about Satoshi's dad and grandpa, the pillow was like a punching bag.
"Dad and grandpa---"
A memory when Satoshi was five years old flashed across his mind.

*

It was the day when a PC was given to him for the first time.
Hanako said with staring at a brand-new PC.
"Hey, my son. I must say to you. ---Your father and grandpa are great pokemon trainers. Aren't they?"
Of course, Satoshi was believed so.
"Hey mom, tell me! What is my dad like? What sort of a man is my grandpa?"
When little Satoshi asked Hanako, she always gave the same answer.
"Your dad and grandpa are sooo surreal trainers who surpass the hero Ohkido Masara--- possibly."
"Surreal?" It wasn't a familiar word for him.
"Surrealistic--- super-realistic"
"They are superior men, you meant."
"It's something like that."
But the day when the PC was delivered, superior dad and grandpa have been transformed into different persons. This is how it happened---
Hanako bobbed her head to little Satoshi.
"Sorry, dear. I told you a falsehood." Hanako said to Satoshi with his mouth wide open.
"Falsehood---."
"Surrealistic trainers. Surrealistic is super-realistic, super-realistic means to stand aloof from the reality---in other words, it's a nonsense. Give me a break!"
A break should have been given to Satoshi more than her.
Hanako asked.
"Satoshi, when you begin to use a PC, you get into on-line communication, ---don't you?"
"Yeah" Satoshi nodded.
"Then, you access to pokemon-related web pages, and maybe you want to know more about your dad and grandpa."
"Yeah, sure."
"But maybe you won't be able to know it. "
"Why? "
"'Cause I told a pack of lies---."
"Eh---?"
"It's not a lie what your dad and grandpa aimed to be a pokemontrainer---it's a fact---they are away on a journey, it's an obvious fact, too."
"Well."
"But they became full-fledged trainers---"
"Well?"
"It is a lie, probably"
"A lie?"
"You have never seen the report your dad and grandpa were elected to the ten thousand best trainers in a magazine or a journal."
"Yeah, I've never seen it."
"But you are utterly indifferent to it because only the participants of the League Tournament of the year are put on the best ten thousand list. The great trainer called Pokemon Master don't compete in Pokemon League---there are many great trainers even if the one aren't put on the list."
"Well"
"But if you check out www I'll be completely at a loss for a reply.
"www?"
"Yeah, you can get easily on www the membership list of the World Pokemontrainers Association---all official trainers are on the list---I hear the names of official trainers are a billion including the deceased in the list."
"The membership list? That's the first I've heard of it."
"You can get it. Then you can search easily for your dad and grandpa's names by PC even if there are a billion official trainers. So--- I say before you search for it.---you can't find the names of your dad and grandpa."
"Why?"
"Your dad and grandpa aren't authorized yet. In other words, they don't become quite official trainers yet."
"H'm"
Long silence hung between Hanako and Satoshi for some time.
"What are they doing now? Dad and grandpa?" Satoshi asked.
Hanako shrugged her shoulders.
"I don't knoooow. Even if they are aiming a trainer---their names had never been put on the list---it's so fruitless---"
"It's so fruitless---"
Satoshi repeated Hanako's words.
Because Hanako hate gloomy mood, she said it as if it were nothing important.
"But, it doesn't mean your efforts are fruitless. Don't mind about your dad and grandpa, from now on. It is up to you whether you become a trainer or not, Satoshi."
"Drat! Uncool!"
"Yeah, uncool. Sooo uncool."
Hanako smiled.
It was a relief to her to realize that Satoshi wasn't a deeply shocked.
Satoshi's feeling was as his word---"Uncool!".
His dad and grandpa are not always here closely but he had seen them only by photographs.
To five-year-old Satoshi, it doesn't seem real story.
Whether his father and grandfather are great trainers or not, he didn't change his mind to want to be a pokemontrainer.

*

But she murmured occasionally.
"Satoshi's dad and grandpa are still now on a journey somewhere with the aim of becoming a pokemontrainer---How I envy them!"
Even if she murmured occasionally, he heard it so many times because it reached his ears until the time he become ten.
It was only natural that Satoshi dreams of becoming a pokemontrainer.
But Hanako didn't mutter because she was anxious for their safety.
Because Hanako loves pokemons, she herself wished to be a pokemontrainer.
If Hanako wasn't the successor of her mother's restaurant, she would have gone on a journey at 10 years old to training for pokemontrainer like Satoshi even if she steamrollered her mother's opposition.
They said that it had better go into training while young to become a good trainer.
But I'm my teens, so enough for it.
If someone who succeeds my mother's restaurant appears, I will leave it to the one and start on a journey immediately.
Hanako wasn't given up.
But---
It was one day when she was 18 years old---Hanako's mother�@was still living.
She fell in love with a traveler wanted to be a pokemontrainer who stayed at her mother's inn at first sight. She went into rapture that she felt absurd for herself, instantly got married to him.
But he set out on a journey, and he never again return home.
To make matters worse, her mother instantly passed away of a disease, Hanako inherited the inn and a newborn baby.
"Do you love him even now?" If she is asked, she will reply "No, sure!".
If a woman like Hanako was abandoned and her husband return home after 10 years shamelessly, she will ignore him because It is too absurd to get angry.
Hanako made up her mind to bring up Satoshi until he starts on a journey with the aim of becoming a pokemontrainer by herself.
It is natural---Hanako thinks so.



Source:

Pocket Monsters - The Animation *Book written by Shudou Takeshi, a script writer from the show*

Website: http://sekichiku.freehosting.net/ep_novta_04.htm

[Hanada Tattsu]

Thanks for the excerpt!

I thought so, so Delia just married the first jurk-off she met, and then he left her, pregnant. Well, whoever this dad is, it seems like what Giovanni would do. Just leave, I suppose.

[Rei_Zero]

Ash already knows what his father looks like, and if has seen Gio's face, even from 70 yards (which is still pretty close), he would still know if Giovanni was his father, and would probably respond to it, if he knew. Now, Gio's perspective is irrelivant, as it seems that Ash's father wouldn't recognise Ash, as he left when Ash was just a little kid. Also know that to be a gym leader you have to be registered, which Gio is, but Ash's father isn't.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Originally posted by Rei_Zero
Ash already knows what his father looks like, and if has seen Gio's face, even from 70 yards (which is still pretty close), he would still know if Giovanni was his father, and would probably respond to it, if he knew. Now, Gio's perspective is irrelivant, as it seems that Ash's father wouldn't recognise Ash, as he left when Ash was just a little kid. Also know that to be a gym leader you have to be registered, which Gio is, but Ash's father isn't.

Actually, it hinted that his dad left before Ash was born, but after Delia got pregnant. I believe that Ash was born out of wedlock. Delia and Ash's dad were never married, the dad just slept at the inn, and one night Delia entered, and well, they had some fun. ^^;;;

However, Delia says that they were married to Ash out of guilt.

[Rei_Zero]

Thanks for making my argument even more convincing...^_^;

[Pokemon Neo]

Originally posted by Rei_Zero
Ash already knows what his father looks like, and if has seen Gio's face, even from 70 yards (which is still pretty close), he would still know if Giovanni was his father, and would probably respond to it, if he knew. Now, Gio's perspective is irrelivant, as it seems that Ash's father wouldn't recognise Ash, as he left when Ash was just a little kid. Also know that to be a gym leader you have to be registered, which Gio is, but Ash's father isn't.



Originally posted by Pokemon Neo
2.I read on this thread that Ash knows what his father looks like.Now,I mainly follow the Pokemon anime and I'm pretty sure I've never heard any mention of this.Does anyone mind telling me where this is said?I could've missed something.





Would someone please tell me where this is mentioned?




Anyway,the point of my post was that Gio and Ash did NOT meet in Mewtwo Returns.Even though most people seem to believe they did.Which means there is no actual physical evidence against,or in support of a Gio/Ash connection.So Giovanni should remain as a possible candidate for Ash's dad.



As for Giovanni being regestered,*ahem*,this is the leader of Team Rocket we're talking about here.Something as small as registration information could be easily manipulated.This is the same organization that created the world's most powerful Pokemon for cripes sake.Hell,maybe some of Giovanni's grunts made the pokemon league officials,"an offer they can't refuse."

[BenRG]

Originally posted by Hanada Tattsu
Well, whoever this dad is, it seems like what Giovanni would do. Just leave, I suppose. I don't think so, somehow. Giovanni is more the sort of man who would kidnap mother and child, wait until the child is old enough to be independent of mother and then dispose of mother to raise the child himself to be the next leader of Team Rocket. He has that sort of mind. The fact that TR has made no concerted effort to recruit Ash is, in my view, an overwhelming argument against Giovanni being Ash's father.

That extract quoted by Otaku Shigeru isn't from any episode and it seems to be from a semi-official source (a novel written by a former scriptwriter after the time of his work on the animé). Because of that, I would question its' relevance to this discussion.

[Hanada Tattsu]

I see, but I think Takeshi Shodou meant to base the book on the anime. Otaku, does Ash get the same Pokemon in the anime in the story?

[Pokemon Neo]

Originally posted by BenRG
I don't think so, somehow. Giovanni is more the sort of man who would kidnap mother and child, wait until the child is old enough to be independent of mother and then dispose of mother to raise the child himself to be the next leader of Team Rocket. He has that sort of mind. The fact that TR has made no concerted effort to recruit Ash is, in my view, an overwhelming argument against Giovanni being Ash's father.




Giovanni - Bad Guy:Yes. Tyrant:No.




How do I know this? Just from the fact that he is SO lenient on Jessie and James.The TR duo who are always causing him hardships,almost never contribute anything to TR,and have leeched off a great amount of the TR budget just for ONE pokemon.


They recently gave the "Dues and Dont's" episode and one line that Giovanni said still intrigues me.It goes something like,"Keep a close eye on them and make sure they pay their dues.On second thought,just keep a close eye on them." As of now,we don't know why takes it so easy on Jessie and James.Maybe Miyamoto asked Gio to promise her to take care of Jessie for all we know.But anyway,the fact remains that these two are his employees and he hasn't even fired them yet.


And you say that Gio is the type of guy that will "rub out" his wife? Nah,I don't buy it.Personally,I still believe that Ash's dad left before he was born or when he was still an infant.But if he did leave at a point where he maybe able to recognize his own son,maybe he's just waiting for the right time to approach him.I mean,a child's spirit can be tough to be break.(especially Ash's) So Gio could be waiting until he gets older and then start to teach him "how the world really works." Basically,he just wants life's harsh realities to break his spirit first and then reel him in.What he doesn't know,is that Ash will ALWAYS be a pure-hearted individual and will never accept ANY kind of position in TR.This is where the drama sets in.

[Animelee]

Originally posted by Hanada Tattsu
I see, but I think Takeshi Shodou meant to base the book on the anime. Otaku, does Ash get the same Pokemon in the anime in the story?

This isn't really a story. It's just a little information on different characters. Like, there's a diary entry for Brock on the day he left home with Ash and Misty, and a bunch of other things.

I would say this is official, since Shudou was given the okay by Sho-Pro, Nintendo, Gamefreak, and MediaNet (according to the webmistress of the site.)

And yeah, it's just like the anime. Same Pokemon, places, characters, etc. :)

[Animelee]

Originally posted by Hanada Tattsu
Delia and Ash's dad were never married, the dad just slept at the inn, and one night Delia entered, and well, they had some fun. ^^;;;

However, Delia says that they were married to Ash out of guilt.

O_O

But it said they got married instantly, and then he left soon after, leaving Hanako and Satoshi.

Ehhh, I don't know if they'd put something like pre-marital relations into Pokemon, but opinions are opinions. :)

Also, did you guys notice the name "Masara Ookido"? Looks like he was the guy who discovered Masara Town, and looks like he's also an ancestor of Yukinari and Shigeru. Cool!

[Hanada Tattsu]

I always wondered if Ash's father was something like a mayor of Pallet Town or something, which would make Ash and Gary more similar.

Ash's dad was the well-known mayor of Pallet, while Gary's grandad was the well-known professor of Pallet.

Makes sense, don't it?

[ShockingAlberto]

I actually registered just so I could reply to this topic. ^_^

Giovanni seems like the strongest link to me. Now, what I see is entirely subjective, so don't take it as proof. I'll try to use episode and manga cites as best I can, but it's nowhere near hardcore evidence.

From a character perspective, both Satoshi and Giovanni are nearly the same. The only difference is the paths they took. Both are constantly looking to be stronger - Satoshi from his constant training, Giovanni from his leadership of Team Rocket. However, they both tend to lose sight and assume the ends justify the means. Granted, Giovanni took this to an extreme, and Satoshi will sidetrack his friends and even put them, himself, and his Pokemon in danger in order to become stronger, but it's the same basic principle.

Next, they both seem to have good hearts. We see this a lot in Satoshi. He'll go out of his way to help every single person on earth and can't stand injustice. Giovanni, while thriving on injustice, still has feelings for people and things. Like someone mentioned above, J, J, & M are a good example. They've screwed up tons of times, but Giovanni has not attempted to fire them (though he was quite evil between Indigo and Orange, attempting to kill Jesse & James by putting them on an abandoned blimp). He seems to have really calmed down, though.

Another piece of "evidence" is that Gio was, once, a pokemon trainer. This is shown in the episode where he battled Gary Oak at the Viridian Gym. Granted, he was not doing too well until Mewtwo showed up, Jessie & James later used his personal Pokemon quite well. It just so happened that J&J just weren't good trainers themselves. Now, this is only an assumption, but I don't think "stolen" Pokemon obey you as well as Giovanni's did. So, Giovanni was more than likely a trainer in his day. But, this opens up the whole messy issue of registration.

Ok, here's a bunch of assumptions in a row, but I think they might work. Satoshi's grandfather was the founder of Team Rocket. I mean, obviously Giovanni couldn't have been the first person to use Pokemon for illegal purposes? He probably avoided registering (or was unable to register) because of his belief that Pokemon were tools for battle. When he had a son, Giovanni, he kept him from registering, also. I mean, the only point in registering is so you can compete in the Pokemon League, anyhow. What's the point if you're going to run Team Rocket today? Giovanni probably rebelled against his father (which gave him a good heart), but decided to honor his wishes and run TR, anyway. Maybe on his journey of self-discovery (in which, I'm sure, he caught a decent amount of Pokemon), Satoshi's mother saw his kind heart and married him for a little while. When word of his father's death came to him, he knew he had to leave, but I'm sure he intended to come back to his wife and son.

Of course, all that is just supposition.

The Wandering Stranger idea is difficult to swallow for me. This has been a nagging plot point the entire series, and I don't think it would just end with Satoshi battling a here-to unknown trainer. Plus, there has to be a reason for him to not be registered or known at all.

Meh, just my two cents.

-- ShockingAlberto

[God of Fire]

Honestly, I can still see this as being something that never gets solved properly in the anime, though you might be able to read about it in books. And Ash's father might never be revealed in form, no matter what we are promised.

And though we probably will see him, I still feel that the identity of his dad will be some completey new character we see in the last season or something.

I don't think Oak is his dad, he never has called him dad as someone else said, and honestly why would he want to keep is fathers identity secret from his closest friends?

I kinda like Lance being the father, though he looks too young, still possible though, I guess.

Giovanni? Out of those people mentioned he's the most probable. Though you have to wonder what attracted Delia to him all those years back.

[Pewter City Geodude]

Originally posted by ShockingAlberto
and Satoshi will sidetrack his friends and even put them, himself, and his Pokemon in danger in order to become stronger,

What makes you say that? I've gotta disagree there.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Originally posted by Pewter City Geodude
What makes you say that? I've gotta disagree there.

Well, such as in the Red Gyarados episode. Both Misty and Brock wanted to continue to Mahogany, but Ash wanted to stay and help the Red Gyarados. Right, he didn't get stronger in any way, but he still wanted to help it since he had a good heart.

[Pewter City Geodude]

OK true...but how is that putting them in danger? Just because they stayed around that area didn't mean they had to go into the danger zone.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Originally posted by Pewter City Geodude
OK true...but how is that putting them in danger? Just because they stayed around that area didn't mean they had to go into the danger zone.

Well, Team Rocket did capture them, I think you can call that dangerous in a way. It was a two-parter, and they almost got eaten by the Red Gyarados.

[Pewter City Geodude]

Well ok...but there's a difference between that and intentionally putting friends/Pokemon in danger with the sole purpose of getting stronger himself...which he doesn't do.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Originally posted by Pewter City Geodude
Well ok...but there's a difference between that and intentionally putting friends/Pokemon in danger with the sole purpose of getting stronger himself...which he doesn't do.

Okay, I see where you're heading. You're right, he didn't do it on purpose, he was just curious.

Curiosity Killed the Cat, but Suspicion Bought it back

[ShockingAlberto]

The episode I mainly had in my head when I wrote that was the one (the name escapes me) where Satoshi insists they cut through the snowy mountain path "because a real Pokemon trainer doesn't go around,". He nearly cost everyone (including Pikachu) their lives with that decision.

I'm sure I could find more. Satoshi's insistence on going to Lavender Town to get ghost Pokemon, then forcing everyone to return with him to the gym where they get captured also stands out in my head. Granted, he does go back to rescue them (no one said he didn't have a good heart), but he's still quite bull-headed and doesn't think out decisions that puts himself and others in danger.

-- ShockingAlberto

[Rei_Zero]

But those are pre-Johto events. If you haven't noticed Ash has become a lot less rash than that, and a lot more mature too.

[ShockingAlberto]

True, but I was using it to show that both him and Giovanni have an "ends justify the means" mindset, even if Satoshi got over it. They also go about it two entirely different ways.

-- ShockingAlberto

[Rei_Zero]

But then how do we know that Gio had these traits as a boy? How do we know he didn't gain these traits as a way to gain control of TR? Or that he was eventually taught these traits by someone else? Also, it doesn't really matter if they share traits, as character is usually only gained from the parent if the parent is there to raise the kid, and it seems the kid in this case was not raised by a father. Another thing, if we were talking about similar character, there is more of a chance of Richie being Ash's twin then Gio being Ash's father...

[ShockingAlberto]

Originally posted by Rei_Zero
But then how do we know that Gio had these traits as a boy? How do we know he didn't gain these traits as a way to gain control of TR? Or that he was eventually taught these traits by someone else? Also, it doesn't really matter if they share traits, as character is usually only gained from the parent if the parent is there to raise the kid, and it seems the kid in this case was not raised by a father. Another thing, if we were talking about similar character, there is more of a chance of Richie being Ash's twin then Gio being Ash's father...

Ah, but not in anime! In anime, looks tend to mean very little, it's the personality that links family together. Take a look at Dragonball Z for example. Goku had died and left his son at home and his wife pregnant with his next son. Skipping ahead five years, we see Goten almost exactly like Goku was as a kid. His personality traits (pure heart, just, urge to become more powerful, innocence) came from his father, despite the fact he never knew him. I maintain Satoshi and Gio share the same traits.

It doesn't matter whether or not Gio had the traits as a boy, what matters is that he has them now. Just like Satoshi's mother has his naievte and optimism now. This, in my opinion, is one of the stronger links to Satoshi's paternity.

-- ShockingAlberto

[Rei_Zero]

But then if you were to go about it that way, then how come Goku's father wasn't just as kind? Sure, Goku suffered brain damamge, but it doesn't mean that his sons would. Goku and Chi-Chi are both pure of heart and they both raised Gohan. When Goku was gone Goten looked up to the only other guy around, Gohan, who was just like Goku.

[ShockingAlberto]

Uhm, Goku's father sacraficed himself trying to kill Freezer so his son wouldn't have to and to save his planet. I fail to see what you're getting at.

-- ShockingAlberto

[Hanada Tattsu]

What you both are saying is making me theory of Giovanni getting Delia pregnant out of wedlock seem even more reasonable.

Ash never saw Giovanni, but he immediatly got traits from Giovanni becase he is his father. Well, that's my two cents.

[Tyler and Hobbes]

Satoshi's grandfather was the founder of Team Rocket. I mean, obviously Giovanni couldn't have been the first person to use Pokemon for illegal purposes?

If you ever listened to hte radio drama, it answers a lot of question. I won't spoil it though. Gio's mother, I think, was the founder of team rocket. I don't think Gio would go on a quest if he could just inherrit the pokemon and money. I go with the traveling stranger idea but a little different. I think that there was a nice guy in werever Delia lived. He used to visit the inn/restaurant, for he had feelings for too. Once she learned of this they got married, but the father had a dream of becoming pokemaster and he decided to not wait around for Delia anymore. He quickly booked a train ticket. Once they decided to elope (Sp? Yes this is extremely warped) He remebered the ticket, he vowed he would return for her. She didn't tell him he got her pregnat. Bada bing bada boom, Ash!:D

[ShockingAlberto]

I still like my theory that Gio rebelled against whoever the dominant figure in his life was and said he'd never run Team Rocket. He probably went on a Pokemon journey to become legitimante, which is more than likely where he met Satoshi no Okaasan. She could sense his good heart and was instantly attracted to him. Once news of Gio's mother/father's (depending on which one was running Rocket) death came, though, he decided that he had better honor their wishes and take over "the family business". I don't think Satoshi no Okaasan knew exactly what was going on, but she understood he needed to leave. Think how dedicated Satoshi is to his mother. If she died saying "I hope Satoshi takes over the gardening business one day," he probably would.

-- ShockingAlberto

[Hanada Tattsu]

Spoiler Alert

Well, for those who have listened to the radio drama, I believe this is how it goes. Giovanni's control freak mother named ultimately Boss Rocket (which hints to her creating the organization) and it seems that she tries to get baby Giovanni to learn the family business, but he just wants to play with his toys (this may be wrong, I haven't heard this for ever so long) but he eventually comes to terms and takes over.


End Spoiler Alert

[Rei_Zero]

Originally posted by ShockingAlberto
Uhm, Goku's father sacraficed himself trying to kill Freezer so his son wouldn't have to and to save his planet. I fail to see what you're getting at.

-- ShockingAlberto
But Goku's father also ruthlessly killed many many races, and only did what the other saiyans would have done.

[Hanada Tattsu]

I wonder if Giovanni is indeed Ash's father. Cause if he is, then I would wonder if his mother, Boss Rocket, met Delia. I wonder if they'll ever make a radio drama around this situation.

[BenRG]

My biggest reason for not liking Giovanni as Ash's father goes something like this...


~*~*~*~

GIOVANNI and PERSIAN have cornered ASH at the very end of the gantry. Still clutching an unconscious PIKACHU, ASH backs out onto the inspection platform running around the antenna.

GIOVANNI: Ash, you do not understand your importance in the scheme of things! Come with me and I will complete your training and you will become the greatest Pokémon Master of all time!

ASH: I'll never join you!

GIOVANNI: Professor Oak thought as you do! He never told you what happened to your father, did he?

ASH (angry): He told me enough! He told me that you killed him!

GIOVANNI: (Laughs evilly) No, Ash... I am your father!

BEGIN MUSIC: "The Imperial March" from 'The Empire Strikes Back'

ASH: NNNOOOOOOOOO!!!


~*~*~*~

It probably isn't fair, but as soon as that image comes to my head, I completely reject DiamondShipping out of hand. ;o

[Pokemon Neo]

*argh* I almost hate Star Wars now because of that.-_-;


But I understand if some people just plain don't like the concept.Just like how I plain don't like Richie.Still waiting to see a Machamp punch Richie in the face.:D


But you've got to admit that some of us Diamondshippers have made the argument a hell of a lot more convincing.Geez,people were saying Gio was already out of the game.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Y'know, I would like someone to post a poll in this topic, to see how many people support Diamond Shipping and such.

Those will be interesting statistics.

[The Rusted One]

Soggy_Cardboard set one up a while back after he and I had a confrontation about it. The general feeling of the forum was an overwhelming, though not total, dislike of the Diamondshipping concept. Yay.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Heh, that's wierd. I thought a lot of people liked the whole Diamond Shipping concept. I guess not.

[ShockingAlberto]

New here...what's diamond shipping?

-- ShockingAlberto

[BenRG]

Originally posted by ShockingAlberto
New here...what's diamond shipping?DiamondShipping refers to the fan belief of a romance (past or present) between Ash's mother, Delia Ketchum, and Giovanni, the leader of Team Rocket. This term is also used to describe the theory that Giovanni of Team Rocket is Ash's father.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Yes, and the very similar Elder Shipping discusses the belief of a romance between Delia Ketchum and Proffesor Oak, including the belief in which Proffesor Oak is Ash's dad.

[Pokemon Neo]

Originally posted by The Rusted One
Soggy_Cardboard set one up a while back after he and I had a confrontation about it. The general feeling of the forum was an overwhelming, though not total, dislike of the Diamondshipping concept. Yay.

Yeah,Diamondshipping didn't go over too well here at Pokemasters.But seeing as how Diamondshipping isn't popular either because people don't like it and/or just think it isn't possible,doesn't that in itself make it even more possible.XD Looks to me like it would shock most of the viewers.


Well,I sure hope so. lol

[Hanada Tattsu]

What is the overall feeling of Elder Shipping here? I don't support that or Diamond Shipping, I support the theory of an unknown trainer being Ash's father, (what is that belief called, anyway?) but what is the overall feeling of Elder Shipping here?

Thanks for answering.

[The Rusted One]

I also support the random trainer theory.

Pokemon Neo - that doesn't make it more possible - it makes it more unlikely because for that to happen, the animé would have to change in focus to accomodate it; it would have to follow that, or else it wouldn't be introduced. I doubt that anything like that would happen with the basic, "gotta catch'em all, I'm going to be the best pokémon trainer ever!" premise.

[BenRG]

While I like (and support) the concept of Delia Ketchum and Professor Oak having a current relationship, I don't like the idea of the Professor being Ash's natural father. Don't ask me why, it is just a gut reaction; Maybe it is the age gap thing, or the fact that the Professor would have probably cheated on his wife to do so (I think she's dead now, but not neccessarily back then).

The only positive thing about ElderShipping is the wonderful reaction that it would likely elicit from poor Ash and Gary upon learning that they are respectively uncle and nephew. :D

[Hanada Tattsu]

Originally posted by BenRG
The only positive thing about ElderShipping is the wonderful reaction that it would likely elicit from poor Ash and Gary upon learning that they are respectively uncle and nephew. :D

Well, now that Ash and Gary are friends, I would say that they wouldn't be as horrified to learn that they are related. Before, they would give a horrible reaction to Proffesor Oak and Delia's confession.

[Pokefreak]

I actually think that Ash's father died a few years back and was reincarnated as Pikachu.
...
...
...
What? It could happen!

[Pokefreak]

That or Ho-Oh is Ash's Father.
...
...
...
What? Again...

[Hanada Tattsu]

Originally posted by Pokefreak
That or Ho-Oh is Ash's Father.
...
...
...
What? Again...

Couldn't you put those two thoughts into the same post?

Anyway, hey, it could be true! I cease to think the writers would actually bring reincarnation in the show, but this would be a pretty good way.

[Light_Togetic]

You know what? The nasty thing is that on Pokemon Live (that weird live-action pokemon show that I believe is done by Radio City or somethin like that), they actually do a story revolving around Delia and Gio having a relationship before she met Mr. Ketchum. But Pokemon Live is American. So, technically it means about as much as "Misty's Song".:rolleyes:

Anyway, I just think the idea of Delia and Gio doing the "dirty dance" is really, well, gross. Has anyone looked at him? I wouldn't want to date that...

Although, reminding myself of Darth Vader, I guess Gio could have looked nicer once before.;)

[Pewter City Geodude]

If it turns out that Giovanni is Ash's father, the Star Wars clone thing could still work, if done right. It worked in Toy Story 2 didn't it? :D

[Rei_Zero]

LOL
But Toy Story 2 was a comedy. Pokemon is.....different.

[Pokemon Neo]

Originally posted by The Rusted One
I also support the random trainer theory.

Pokemon Neo - that doesn't make it more possible - it makes it more unlikely because for that to happen, the animé would have to change in focus to accomodate it; it would have to follow that, or else it wouldn't be introduced. I doubt that anything like that would happen with the basic, "gotta catch'em all, I'm going to be the best pokémon trainer ever!" premise.



What I'm hoping for isn't entirely impossible.We obviously seen that the Pokemon movies tend to be more intense and serious than the series itself.So all the writers have to do is put that same kind of effort in the series and we might have a potentially clever written story connecting Ash and Gio.Heck,even AG looks like it's setting up to be a lot more intense than the previous seasons.I was kind of surprised how Team Magma threatened to hurt Ash,May,and Nurse Joy if that archeologist didn't follow their orders.Yeah,it's not that shocking,but this is Pokemon we're talking about.

[The Rusted One]

You may have a point about the intensity - but still, I think it's a little beyond that when it comes to what you'd like to see. I mean, that would mean that, basically, the series stops being "gotta catch'em all" and changes to "Was I not good enough for you?" I can't see it. Not only that, but it would be a bit of a stretch in terms of storyline - maybe not impossible, and maybe not because it's been done before, but just because it's not realistic.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Originally posted by The Rusted One
You may have a point about the intensity - but still, I think it's a little beyond that when it comes to what you'd like to see. I mean, that would mean that, basically, the series stops being "gotta catch'em all" and changes to "Was I not good enough for you?" I can't see it. Not only that, but it would be a bit of a stretch in terms of storyline - maybe not impossible, and maybe not because it's been done before, but just because it's not realistic.

Well, maybe, but the show could gradually change it's course, from going from kiddie to mature and obviously better.

[Rei_Zero]

Yes, the show maybe growing in intensity, but even so, the story would be something to do about getting to the best and improving your character, and the bond between human and pokemon. That's why Ho-oh plays such an important example in the anime. Because it represents the bond of humans and pokemon, and how it failed 500 years ago. I fail to see how it could connect Gio and Ash as son and father, but I can see it connect them as arch enemies, or Ash as the bond and selflessness of man and Gio as the anti-bond by being the greed and selfishness of man kind. In this case, if they make Gio Ash's father, it would center too much on Ash's relations and not enough on the goal of the story.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Originally posted by Rei_Zero
Yes, the show maybe growing in intensity, but even so, the story would be something to do about getting to the best and improving your character, and the bond between human and pokemon. That's why Ho-oh plays such an important example in the anime. Because it represents the bond of humans and pokemon, and how it failed 500 years ago. I fail to see how it could connect Gio and Ash as son and father, but I can see it connect them as arch enemies, or Ash as the bond and selflessness of man and Gio as the anti-bond by being the greed and selfishness of man kind. In this case, if they make Gio Ash's father, it would center too much on Ash's relations and not enough on the goal of the story.

But the "gotta catch 'em all" plot can be a side-plot while the anime focuses on Ash's feelings to Gio being his dad.

[Rei_Zero]

The gotta catch'em all is an American invention. The true purpose for pokemon is the bond between human and pokemon. That's why we have so many episodes where the Tachi help pokemon more than battle them. Pokemon battles are merely a way to bond with pokemon, as with other pokemon events, or to show that bond. That is the goal. To center Ash around the Gio being daddy thing would not only stray, but it would also partially ruin the story, and it would be much to cliche. Besides, what would Lucas do if he saw it??

[The Rusted One]

Which defeats the premise of Pokémon - "gotta catch'em all" is what Pokémon is about; you can't say, "this is the entire basis for the plot" and then turn around and make it a story on the side. Besides this, if Giovanni and Ash turned out to be related, with all the emotional turmoil and psychological blah-de-blah bound to happen, nobody's going to be catching anything at all.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Well, I see. But still, I mean, they could do this at the end of the story, when Ash is a Pokemon Master (if he ever becomes one, that is). Nothing would be ruined, it would end the show in an emotional, adult, mature way.

[Rei_Zero]

But then you would have that cliche again. My father was my arch nemesis. And in Japan, you don't have cliches like that.

[Pokemon Neo]

Originally posted by Rei_Zero
Yes, the show maybe growing in intensity, but even so, the story would be something to do about getting to the best and improving your character, and the bond between human and pokemon. That's why Ho-oh plays such an important example in the anime. Because it represents the bond of humans and pokemon, and how it failed 500 years ago. I fail to see how it could connect Gio and Ash as son and father, but I can see it connect them as arch enemies, or Ash as the bond and selflessness of man and Gio as the anti-bond by being the greed and selfishness of man kind. In this case, if they make Gio Ash's father, it would center too much on Ash's relations and not enough on the goal of the story.


That's a really good story!:D


That's more or less how I percieve Ash and Gio.

Giovanni is the embodiment of what will keep the spirits of humans and pokemon separated.Ash is the embodiment of what will unite the spirits of humans and pokemon.Then in a strange twist of fate,it turns out that these two are Father and Son.And this is what will make the outcome so much harder to predict.What Father will wage a war against his own Son?What Son will wage a war against his own Father? It'd be too easy if it were two strangers because each side would blindly fight the other with one eventually winning.But would things truly be resolved? It's this kind of situation that Ho-oh will use to ultimately determine whether or not humans and pokemon can co-exist as one.


*phew*


Well,that's pretty much why I really want the whole Ash/Gio thing to happen.I know when people hear Ash/Gio thet scream out "Star Wars","cliche",etc. But like I've said before,that story doesn't have to be cliche if the wirters don't want it to.Yeah,that's putting a lot of faith in the writers,but I believe that they can actually pull this one off.The whole Ash/Oak connection is too Jerry Springer/Friends for my taste and the Ash/Joe Average deal just seems a little dull to me.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Well, maybe Ash's dad doesn't have to be Giovanni, but maybe a top agent in Team Rocket, someone along the ranks of Domino (someone at the same rank as her).

[Rei_Zero]

And that would be the cliche of it all Pokemon Neo. It would be obvious enough that Ash would win, and that Gio would have to switch sides, perish, or both. Another thing to note is that Ash doesn't ask questions about his father, unlike Luke Skywalker, so the effects on Ash would be different, and the dramatics would be much less. In fact, it would seem almost like a desperate attempt to solve this mystery rather then focus on the plot, and for some reason, this just doesn't seem to be the writer's style. Of course, you could scream out FILLER, but fillers also focus on pokemon human bonding.

[Pokemon Neo]

Originally posted by Rei_Zero
And that would be the cliche of it all Pokemon Neo. It would be obvious enough that Ash would win, and that Gio would have to switch sides, perish, or both. Another thing to note is that Ash doesn't ask questions about his father, unlike Luke Skywalker, so the effects on Ash would be different, and the dramatics would be much less. In fact, it would seem almost like a desperate attempt to solve this mystery rather then focus on the plot, and for some reason, this just doesn't seem to be the writer's style. Of course, you could scream out FILLER, but fillers also focus on pokemon human bonding.



Well,I say toh-may-to,you say toh-mah-to.:)


I just thought that would more or less make a nice concept.The reason I mentioned Ho-oh,the spirits of humans and Pokemon,etc. is because you brought it up in a previous post.(at least I think you did.^^; ) When I read it I thought,"Hm,that could make an interesting story." But it would be sort of a stretch because let's face it,Giovanni is just not that evil.(not yet anyway.....) Someone like Vicious is a person I consider far more villainous and would make a better fit for that type of character than Gio could.Even though I think the Ho-oh and the spirit thing couldn't hurt(if it was done right),it's not exactly what I've always envisioned for a story involving Ash and Gio.And I still think an Ash/Gio story would be far more interesting than any Ash/Oak or Ash/Average Joe story.Like I said before,it doesn't have to be cliche if the writers really put some effort into it.


Also,I don't see why some say that an Ash/Gio connection would ruin Pokemon's story.Shouldn't that be the case for whoever Ash's father might be? Ash is only human for god sakes.If he one day happens to run into a man who's his father,it's only natural for him to ask why it all happened.True,it seems that Ash has never asked about his father.Maybe because he figures that if he's gotten this far without a dad,why should he start caring now?It might show how mature he is about the whole situation.(it sort of fits in too because Ash is a pretty independent person) But in the end,everybody wants to know who their parents are. Whether it's one continuous mini-series,or they reveal the secret in one episode and then come back to it later.(I wouldn't blame Ash if he just didn't want to be near the bastard at first either.)It's not like they're going to say in one episode,"There,mystery solved.Ash's dad was that transvestite with the chansey from Pokemon Fashion Flash." Yeah,I suppose they could write a good story that would fit all in ONE episode,but it just seems too unrealistic.I fail to see how(at the most),a 5 episode storyarc would have that much of a drastic effect on a series that's well over 300 episodes.




Originally posted by Rei_Zero

It would be obvious enough that Ash would win



Geez,isn't it obvious that Ash will always be triumphant at the end of the day 99% of the time.We already know what the destination is.Getting there is where all the fun is at.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Originally posted by Pokemon Neo
It's not like they're going to say in one episode,"There,mystery solved.Ash's dad was that transvestite with the chansey from Pokemon Fashion Flash.

XD, I seriously laughed a lot there. :D

Well, Ash hasn't asked anything about his dad, maybe Delia really lied to him in the anime and said he was dead or something.

[Kairu_Hakubi]

i used to think sakaki (giovanni) was satoshi's father, but when i saw him up close it didn't make sense anymore. hell, lance looks more like him.

i dont understand how Oak could be satoshi's father, since he's shigeru's grandfather and i think satoshi would know if shigeru, his own rival, was his own father or uncle XD

[DannyBoy]

If Ash's father was Oak, it would be funny because Ash and Gary would be cousins. Then they would be rival cousins. That would be intresting if they found that out.

[Pewter City Geodude]

Actually it would make Ash Gary's uncle.

[Hanada Tattsu]

Originally posted by Pewter City Geodude
Actually it would make Ash Gary's uncle.

That would be scary. I honestly cannot imagine that occuring, so that's why I don't really think that Oak and ash are related in any way.

[Cytrus]

Eldershipping - Meh whatever
Oak as Ash's father - OMFG NO!!!
I think that from the first three the Gio concept is the best,
and the forth one isn't too propable. They made Ash so special
that it would be REALLY strange if his father was just a normal
guy from neighbourhood. Now, the only problem I see is that the
producers would have to understand that not only 10 years old
kids watch the anime, if they won't notice it, we may all say
goodbeye to any father related twists in plot

[Rei_Zero]

Ash's father wouldn't have to be a guy from the neighborhood. Just someone Ash doesn't know, we've never seen, etc.

[Cytrus]

I know, it was absolutely sarcastic, and come on, in such a small town as Pallet it would be really hard to hide...

[Hanada Tattsu]

I don't think Pallet Town is not so small in the anime. In the game, it is, but I don't think a town would have 3 houses in it, and nothing else. That's more like a ghost town.

For example, take New Bark Town. In the game, it's really small, but in the show, it's kinda, if not really, big.

[Cytrus]

A town is never as small as a few bites or 0 and 1 ^_^. But Goldenrod is biggest in the game and biggest in the anime, the size is x(insert number) times bigger but compared to other cities pallet is still small (IMO)

[Hanada Tattsu]

Littleroot is much smaller, IMHO, Pallet is pretty much bigger, after all, it does have a port in the game (Route 21) but Saffron City will always be the biggest city in all the games, second is Goldenrod, and then Lillycove and Rustboro.

[phantomness]

Yep, haven't been in this forum for a LONG time...

But!
Since I'm the insane fanfic writer who came up with championshipping, I'll clarify now. Championshipping is (Ash x Lance)/(Red x Lance in Pokemon Adventure manga). Therefore, Lance being Ash's father would be, well, incest if you look at this pairing.
Hmm...
Yes, Lance does look too young to be Ash's father in the anime.