Same-Sex Marriage [Archive] - The PokeMasters Forums

Mewtwo-D2

23rd July 2003, 03:16 AM

I'm a good little Christian girl who has read all of Leviticus, including the part where it states clearly that homosexuality is not evil, just sodomy and oral sex are ritually unclean for Jews. If you read through the list of abominations, every single one seems to be focussed on preserving health, like not eating pork: which had a high rate of contamination at that point, or not having sex during menustration, or not touching dead bodies except to prepare them for burial, and after you prepared them, you had to wash yourself good and proper. The point is, some types of sex get rather messy, and aren't exactly hygenic when you don't have regular access to water.

I'm one of the school of thought who doesn't know or particularly care whether you're born with it, develop it at some later date, or decide that to be different, you're suddenly going to claim to be bi-or-homosexual. For all I know, you can be a crazed sex-nut like Casanova, who only cared that he was sleeping with someone, and if he couldn't get women, there were plenty of men around.
I don't believe the government has the right to fiddle with the private lives of its citizen's, unless they are causing harm or being blatantly offensive. They shouldn't have laws banning certain types of marriages: whether they can marry in a church is the parrish's perogative, and they have every right to refuse to marry any couple, for any feasible reason. If it was just because they thought they were an ugly couple, that's not right. But if they state that because of religious grounds or out of concern for a parrishioner that they can not preform a marriage ceremony, too bad for the couple. I think the main reason other conservatives are in an uproar about the homosexual marriage bill is they feel it might be ordered into their church, even if their denomination or religion forbids it. But as long as no homosexual couple is sue-happy over the refusal of a certain church to marry them, that doesn't need to be a big issue. Here's hoping, because gays will take a major step backward from anything they've achieved if they do: it will lead to more stereotypes and much more religious backlash.

Silent Dragonfly

23rd July 2003, 05:08 AM

I don't believe in any religion, they all seem a bit farfetched to me. Anyway, I don't have anything against gay marriage but I don't think that people should have to get married whether they're gay or straight to put them in a better situation financially, if they live together long enough they should be considered equal to married couples and get the same finacial support.

Musourenka

23rd July 2003, 05:25 AM

Originally posted by The Rusted One
Musourenka - so, marriage isn't anything to do with the government? Why is it, then, that gay marriage is illegal? The law is involved to a high degree in that - so saying, "law shouldn't be involved in marriage," to justify why gay marriages shouldn't be legal is ignoring the fact that the law already is involved.

True, and the government and law shouldn't be involved in the private lives of others (despite the fact that it is). A better question would be "Should Same-Sex Marriage (or any marriage for that matter) be ILLEGAL?" My answer would be a flat-out "NO" (In case you were wondering, I didn't put an answer for this poll). Personally, I think ALL marriage laws (accepting and prohibiting marriage) should be taken off the books -- let the churches and others decide who should and shouldn't be married.

I see where you're getting confused on my stance. I'm thinking of legal and illegal in terms of there being laws for/against certain behavior (and according to how I was thinking, if there isn't a law for/against it, it can't be legal or illegal) , despite "legal" actually meaning it's not AGAINST the law. Heck, even with my definition of legal, there's already a law that allows same-sex marriage -- Amendment 9 of the Bill of Rights... I'm confusing all of you, aren't I?

My appologies. I'm getting my terms mixed up or something, but my stance is the same as The Muffin Man's -- it shouldn't have been illegal in the first place.

So I say YES to allowing same-sex marriages, but NO to government sanctioning of them or any marriage. I still am not going to vote because I don't believe in making a new law legalizing types of marriage as much as I believe in taking down such laws that prohibit them (and the poll question is geared towards the former).

I hope that clears up everything. :confused:

Ninetales3001

23rd July 2003, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by Musourenka
Because I believe that people decide who they are, and I don't believe in the existence of a "gay gene". Environmental factors are probably the main contributor to one's sexual orientation, but I have a very, very heard time believing that it's 100% out of one's control.

Did you CHOOSE to be straight? No, you didn't. You REALISED it. The thing that mix up a lot of people opinions on this matter is the difference between choosing and realising.

I don't believe in the gay gene either... but, you see, I don't believe in the "I prefer blondes to brunettes" gene either. Or, "I prefer chocolate ice cream to vanilla" gene... you get what I'm saying? Homosexuality is a sexual _preference_. Generally, you don't choose what you prefer. You realise what you like and dislike, right? Sure, you can make yourself like something you dislike. Hell, if I wanted to, I could make myself have sex with a woman.. it doesn't mean I'd truely like it.

I don't think straight people have a valid concreate basis to form their opinion in how homosexuals "become gay." I don't think gay people do either. Gays form their opinions on experiences, straight people form their opinions on stereotypes, assumptions, and their own experiences with being straight... which is damn well not a way to figure out where you stand on any issue.

Sorry for the off topicness.

Go equal rights in marriage! heh

Little_Pikachu

23rd July 2003, 07:04 AM

See the "sex before marriage" discussions. In there everyone agianst it rants that you should be in love before you have sex, and the best way to prove this is to be married... Now a lot of the same people who said that are saying that two people shouldn't be allowed to be married even though they may be in love.

I think you should be able to do what you want as long as you're not hurting anyone, and a gay couple getting married is NOT going to start a world war, shoot someone in the head or make an orphanage explode. It's just two people in love, proving that they want to spend the rest of thier lives together and if that's socially acceptable for murderers, rapists, child molesters and drug dealers, it should be perfectly acceptable for anyone else.

GreenShirT

23rd July 2003, 09:15 AM

Yeah I think it should be legal because after all 'love knows no bounds' or so we are told.
2 people of the same sex get married, so? It is hardly going to bring about the end of the world is it and I doubt most people would care, I wouldn't be bothered in teh slightest by this.

Chikoo

23rd July 2003, 09:52 AM

Go ahead and legalize it, see if I care. (I don't know whether that sounded mean or not.) But it's true, the law won't concern me anyway...

nightcrow

23rd July 2003, 10:59 AM

I certainly believe it should be legal. I don't know why we have to stick to a bunch of silly old men's beliefs which are definately old-fashioned..

I mean, suppose a young girl has this dream of a huge, extravegant wedding with all the lacy frills and such... but she quickly enough becomes and realises that omg... she's a lesbian. Now, because it is considered "immoral" by the bunch of old bags that run our country, she can't LEGALLY have the wedding that she dreamed of. And I think that is so unfair. She should have the right to prove her love in such a way to anyone she chooses.. it's not up to anyone else to decide wether she can or can not.

Yeah I am a christian, by the way. Just a sensible one.. ;)

Dark Dragonite

23rd July 2003, 11:35 AM

I don't have much to say, but the following:

~Yeah, some "free country" I live in, where the government has to legalize 2 consenting adults that happen to be same sex to be able to enjoy each other!! (USA is starting to suck in my opinion, and I live here)

~It isn't any of our ****ing business if someone is gay/lesbian/bi or not, it's their life, not ours, they have the natural human right to be the way they are!!

DragonLover

23rd July 2003, 12:47 PM

DUHH, ofcourse it should be legal, i mean if they love eachother then why not, Honestly no offence but some people are so narrow minded

God of Fire

23rd July 2003, 12:56 PM

The question should be 'Why SHOULDN'T same sex couples be aloud to marry' And I doubt anyone could come up with a proper answer to that.

But why do so many Christians believe that it is wrong? In fact one of my friends happans to be a Christian AND a Lesbian. And her Church does not frown upon it, and neither does any of my friends.

I also have to agree treated so that if you prefer things your way then yourthat homosexuality is a prefrence you can't choose. It's not like you can ever say 'That's right, I'm not gay anymore' But why is it that no one can understand that their sexual prefrence does not matter at all. It does not change who they are.

Crystal Mew

23rd July 2003, 03:45 PM

Fine......let me rephrase myself. I always tend to say things in the wrong way anyway, I have no idea why I posted here.....but since I did already, I'll say what I meant. Its true, I'm not gay/bi or anything...and truthfully, I've been under a rock for most of my life, and had no idea what being 'gay' really meant until like 6,7, or 8th grade. o_O; so I'm still not used to it...sorry to everyone I offended or whatever ._.;

If 2 people love each other, who am I to stand in there way? I'm not, so they can do as they please :) so if it becomes legal, thats fine..

sorry again

Master Rudy

23rd July 2003, 04:32 PM

I agree with most of the people who have replied to this topic and think that it's wrong that same sex marriages are not legal in many places. Does it really matter if a girl loves another girl or if a guy loves another guy? It's not like the two of them are doing something that is going to hurt others. I swear that some people look at being homosexual as some kind of curse or evil thing. The truth is that they are people too and should have the same rights as everyone else. Saying two people of the same sex can't be married is kinda like saying a British man can't marry a Japanese woman or that a black woman can't marry a white man. The last two examples aren't considered to be 'wrong'. Why should this?

Crazy

23rd July 2003, 07:11 PM

Well I say no for one reasonable reason....If you did that then ummm lets say that if someone in someones family was gay then they got married then that would end our family line if there was but one gay child then that would end the line.If you understand what I mean.If it wasn't for that I wouldn't care.

Deck Knight

23rd July 2003, 07:26 PM

Its funny, 50 years ago if you said you wanted to marry another person of the same gender, your mother would have washed your mouth out with soap and sent you to a nun.

I have nothing against homosexual people loving each other, its their choice. But imagine this scenario:

Two gay guys are getting married, and a little boy wearing a suit sees a lot of little girls wearing white dresses. Now, one of the gay guys is also wearing a dress.

"Mommy, why is that man wearing a dress?"

"Oh Billy, don't worry about it"

"How come he gets a dress and I don't?"

"Don't be stupid Billy, boys don't wear dresses"

"But that man is..."

And so on.

Now think of what a very strange scene that would be for a 5 year old. Dare I say his need to want to fit in with all those girls in dresses might make him run around in one later, and eventually become gay?

I realise that is all specualtory, but I beleive one's experiences make them gay, not some gene. Geneticists have been around for years they would have discovered a pattern by now. Now, I'll shut up when I'm older and I go to a clinic and hear a doctor say:

"You're boy has the gay gene, he is doomed never to have children outside of adoption from couples without the gay gene, congratulations, your family name ends now."

"Don't worry Maria, we can keep trying"

"This is all your fault, David! Your stupid Father had to have the gay gene, didn't he? And he had you before he found out! I'm divorcing for someone who won't give me gay gene children!"

Untill I hear that or similar, I won't buy into "I was born that way". This is like saying "I was born afraid of water" When you were almost drowned at 3-5.

Now I realise all my examples are full of witty satire, but thats just the way I am.

On topic...

Marraige has been around since St. Peter founded the Church almost 2000 years ago. It was designed SPECIFICALLY for man and woman, and it is defined "FOR THE PROCREATION OF CHILDREN"... I repeat.... "FOR THE PROCREATION OF CHILDREN" Not the adoption of children, not the confusing of children, not for wild gay sex and tax reasons, nbut for the PROCREATION of children". Gays cannot Procreate children amonst themselves, therefore, they cannot meet that requirement of marraige.

Oh, and btw. I'm a little catholic boy, who has read the Bible sparingly, all this came from common sense and knowledge that is explicitly stated. You can ask any Catholic Priest, Marraige is for the PROCREATION of children.

123LTJ

23rd July 2003, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by Crazy
Well I say no for one reasonable reason....If you did that then ummm lets say that if someone in someones family was gay then they got married then that would end our family line if there was but one gay child then that would end the line.If you understand what I mean.If it wasn't for that I wouldn't care.

Like not letting him/her marry will make them go straight and continue the family line? Wow, Crazy, you're more idiotic than I've thought based on your previous posts. They can't become UN GAY! They could no more choose to become straight than you could choose to become gay! Can you all the sudden find yourself attracted to members of the same sex? If you can, WHY THE **** WOULD YOU???? YES, I WANT TO BE RIDUCULED, SPITED, MADE FUN OF, HARASSED, BEATEN, STEREOTYPED, OUTCASTED, AND ALL BECAUSE I CHOSE TO BE GAY!

AAAHHH!!!!

Originally posted by Deck Knight
Marraige is for the PROCREATION of children

Not legally, it isn't. I'm not saying that the Catholic Church should be forced to accept gay marraiges, but according to LAW!

Oh, and being gay isn't something to be avoided! You're acting like it's a disease or something. And the "gay gene" thing? The way you make it sound, it's just so they can't have kids. You've never heard of people screaming about how the mother passed on some infertility to her son or something!

Vega

23rd July 2003, 07:35 PM

ok, this shouldnt be taken as an attempt at flaming or such, just an opinion.

i think homosexuality in general is disgusting, sick, and inhuman. like it or not, its the truth. a man/woman was never meant to fall in love/have sex with a person of the same sex, its just wrong.

it matters not whether or not you believe in any religion, its just wrong, in any way you look at it. and accepting it is also wrong. i cant see anyway to succesfully deal with it, but until then i'll just have to live around gay ppl. i havent met any gay ppl myself, and i dont know how i would act around them, but it definitely wouldnt be in a nice and civil way, since i despise the very thought of homosexuality.

as much as this sounds "20th Century", its just how i would act.

anyhow, on topic, i dont think same sex marriages should be legalised.

now you can proceed to flame me.

gday mortals! :wave:

Angel Blossom

23rd July 2003, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Vega
ok, this shouldnt be taken as an attempt at flaming or such, just an opinion.

i think homosexuality in general is disgusting, sick, and inhuman. like it or not, its the truth. a man/woman was never meant to fall in love/have sex with a person of the same sex, its just wrong.

it matters not whether or not you believe in any religion, its just wrong, in any way you look at it. and accepting it is also wrong. i cant see anyway to succesfully deal with it, but until then i'll just have to live around gay ppl. i havent met any gay ppl myself, and i dont know how i would act around them, but it definitely wouldnt be in a nice and civil way, since i despise the very thought of homosexuality.

as much as this sounds "20th Century", its just how i would act.

anyhow, on topic, i dont think same sex marriages should be legalised.

now you can proceed to flame me.

gday mortals! :wave:

I'm sorry, Vega, but what you said is the most ignorant opinion I have heard so far. This really pisses me off. They're PEOPLE. Just because they're not straight, it doesn't make them monsters, or sick, or disgusting.

Let's say your best friend told you one day, that he/she is homosexual. What are you going to do? Beat him/her to death? Will you treat your best friend like garbage for the rest of your life?

And by the way, I know a lot of men who are gay. Besides the fact that they are attracted to their own gender, they're just like everyone else. Bah, this isn't even worth it. Your ignorance just pisses me off.. -_-

Crazy

23rd July 2003, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by 123LTJ
Like not letting him/her marry will make them go straight and continue the family line? Wow, Crazy, you're more idiotic than I've thought based on your previous posts. They can't become UN GAY! They could no more choose to become straight than you could choose to become gay! Can you all the sudden find yourself attracted to members of the same sex? If you can, WHY THE **** WOULD YOU???? YES, I WANT TO BE RIDUCULED, SPITED, MADE FUN OF, HARASSED, BEATEN, STEREOTYPED, OUTCASTED, AND ALL BECAUSE I CHOSE TO BE GAY!

AAAHHH!!!!

Not legally, it isn't. I'm not saying that the Catholic Church should be forced to accept gay marraiges, but according to LAW!

Oh, and being gay isn't something to be avoided! You're acting like it's a disease or something. And the "gay gene" thing? The way you make it sound, it's just so they can't have kids. You've never heard of people screaming about how the mother passed on some infertility to her son or something!

:mad: You moron I didn't say I insulted and hated gays!!!YOU MORON!God you tick me off.All I said was a fact.

Hexae

23rd July 2003, 08:18 PM

Apart from concurring with Angel Blossom, I have something to add.

Originally posted by Vega
a man/woman was never meant to fall in love/have sex with a person of the same sex, its just wrong.

According to what, may I ask? It is a proven fact that many animals (mostly monkeys) show forms of homosexuality towards those of the same sex. Female Bonobos (a species of monkey) rub their clitorises together, and some rams and cattle will mount those of the same gender when they are in heat. Some species of birds will affectionately nuzzle and caress those of the same gender. Is this a crime? Is this disgusting? Who is to judge the very actions of the animal kingdom? We are a part of it too, you know.

Relating to the title, I see no reason why it shouldn't be legal for same-sex marriages to occur.

123LTJ

23rd July 2003, 08:22 PM

Originally posted by Crazy
:mad: You moron I didn't say I insulted and hated gays!!!YOU MORON!God you tick me off.All I said was a fact.

I never said that YOU insulted and hated gays. I'm just saying that being gay is not a choice, since nobody in their right mind would CHOOSE to be riduculed, insulted, and hated. In general. By jackasses. Ignorent jackasses. Ignorent, inbred jackasses. I'm done now. Pay attention to wording next time.

KaptainSarcasm

23rd July 2003, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by 123LTJ
I never said that YOU insulted and hated gays. I'm just saying that being gay is not a choice, since nobody in their right mind would CHOOSE to be riduculed, insulted, and hated. In general. By jackasses. Ignorent jackasses. Ignorent, inbred jackasses. I'm done now. Pay attention to wording next time.

Umm, hi! :wave:

Being gay certainly isn't a choice, but if I had a choice between being gay and being straight, I'd stick with being gay. Even with the ridicule and all that. I refuse to let a couple of assholes throw me off of who I am, if they don't like it, they can see who's laughing when I get more women than them.

I just wanted to point that out so that people don't start to think of being gay as a curse or a desease or something. It's not. It's not a terrible thing to be gay, not by a long shot.

123LTJ

23rd July 2003, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by KaptainSarcasm
Umm, hi! :wave:

Being gay certainly isn't a choice, but if I had a choice between being gay and being straight, I'd stick with being gay. Even with the ridicule and all that. I refuse to let a couple of assholes throw me off of who I am, if they don't like it, they can see who's laughing when I get more women than them.

I just wanted to point that out so that people don't start to think of being gay as a curse or a desease or something. It's not. It's not a terrible thing to be gay, not by a long shot.

I did not in any way mean that nobody wants to be gay. I meant that most people, without being either, would choose to be straight, just to avoid the negative aspects of being gay. I really can't see any reason, besides the preferance nobody can really control, why anybody would choose a route that will leave you ostracized by some people. I personally, given the two routes, would rather be straight, but the choice isn't ours to make. I'm sorry if what I said sounded insulting or anything. I hope I made myself clear.

Almond

23rd July 2003, 11:12 PM

As a bisexual, I believe 100% that same-sex marriage should be just as legal as opposite-sex marriage. (I also think polygamy should be legal, but eh...)

In one nice compact guide, I have assembled the most common arguments against same-sex marriage, free of gakispeak, and my refutations thereof.

The Bible says it's wrong.

Your point being...? Though the majority of Americans are Christian, this nation was not founded as a Christian nation. I refer you to my attachment.

Well yeah, but still: It's infringing on my religion if you allow two men to marry!

How so? No one's forcing you to marry someone of the same sex. And just fyi, there are some religions, such as Buddhism, that would prefer for same-sex marriage to be legal. Wouldn't it be infringing on their rights to not make it legal?

It's disgusting.

Says who? You? Just because you think having sex with someone of the same gender is gross, doesn't mean everyone thinks that way. To gay people, heterosexuality is disgusting. But they don't try to make that illegal. (Unless they're some idiotic radical fringe group.)

Marriage is for reproduction only!

So then I guess we should stop allowing sterile people to marry, huh? In fact, let's make everyone sign a paper when they get married, swearing that they'll have children.

Please.

In fact, some people get married because they are in love, and not for the sole purpose of having children. Besides, gay couples can adopt children (which in my opinion is a more humane option than bringing another soul into this pathetic world).

Allowing same-sex marriages will destroy marriage!

Um... how does letting people get married, destroy marriage? It's not like opposite-sex marriage will become illegal or anything. In fact, if you aren't gay, it doesn't affect you.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Deck Knight

23rd July 2003, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by Hexae
Apart from concurring with Angel Blossom, I have something to add.

According to what, may I ask? It is a proven fact that many animals (mostly monkeys) show forms of homosexuality towards those of the same sex. Female Bonobos (a species of monkey) rub their clitorises together, and some rams and cattle will mount those of the same gender when they are in heat. Some species of birds will affectionately nuzzle and caress those of the same gender. Is this a crime? Is this disgusting? Who is to judge the very actions of the animal kingdom? We are a part of it too, you know.

Relating to the title, I see no reason why it shouldn't be legal for same-sex marriages to occur.

Oh look, I'm going back to religion, where marraige is ACTUALLY applicable, since in order to be MARRIED, you must have a RELIGION of sorts, or you can be married by government... Actually, thats the answer right there.

I'm against CATHOLIC Same Sex Marraiges, if you're too dumb to listen and abide your teachings, your no better off than those clitmonkeys(Bonobos). If your religion doesn't clearly state same sex MARRAIGE is against the law, then its not a problem.

As for gays themselves, only problem I have with them is if they slap my *** or hit on me or make catcalls or something along those lines(ladies, feel free to do any of the above, LOL). In short, they actually have to DO something to me first.

My position is simply this: Whether or not you are gay or straight. You can love whoever you wish. As long as your religion doesn't have any qualms with pre-marital sex, you can have sex with whomever you wish without being married. Love and Sex are minor, they mean little in the long run. You can Love and have Sex with hundreds of people(and be considered a whore, too). You can only get MARRIED to one. Which makes Marraige sacred, its a bonding of two people for the procreation of more people(at least in the Catholic Church, anyway). If you want to get married, just don't make it by the Catholic Church, go to Vegas and get married by that minister who works for the Government and not the God.

My Religion states there are to be no same sex marraiges, its just what it says, its written law, enforced for thousands of years. However, if your religion is different, then my religion has no impact on you, and therefore, do whatever you wish.

Deck Knight

23rd July 2003, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by Almond

It's disgusting.

Says who? You? Just because you think having sex with someone of the same gender is gross, doesn't mean everyone thinks that way. To gay people, heterosexuality is disgusting. But they don't try to make that illegal. (Unless they're some idiotic radical fringe group.)

My answer to that: Even girls have asses. Just do her up the butt if you don't like her particular reproductive organ. Wow, that blows that argument out the window, doesn't it. Of course, if you like sucking something, then thats a completely different story... but... eventually man will become so horny and pro-gay rights there will be dick flavored lollipops with hard centers for the "suck on the go".

Oh look... more witty satire O_o.

Almond

23rd July 2003, 11:42 PM

Originally posted by Deck Knight
My answer to that: Even girls have asses. Just do her up the butt if you don't like her particular reproductive organ. Wow, that blows that argument out the window, doesn't it. Of course, if you like sucking something, then thats a completely different story... but... eventually man will become so horny and pro-gay rights there will be dick flavored lollipops with hard centers for the "suck on the go".

Oh look... more witty satire O_o.

Eventually man will become so pro-black rights there will be n***er flavoured lollipops.

Do you see how retarded that statement was?

You miss the fact that gay people DO NOT FALL IN LOVE with the opposite sex, so there would be no reason to screw a girl up the ***.

jet1213

23rd July 2003, 11:43 PM

responding to the above lollipop statement: what

not to change the subject of this topic, but it seems like the vast majority of conflicts between people boil down to religious disputes. so uh.. stop being religious.

Deck Knight

23rd July 2003, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by Almond
Eventually man will become so pro-black rights there will be n***er flavoured lollipops.

Do you see how retarded that statement was?

You miss the fact that gay people DO NOT FALL IN LOVE with the opposite sex, so there would be no reason to screw a girl up the ***.

People don't Fall in love with hookers either, they just screw them and go.

Almond

23rd July 2003, 11:46 PM

That's an ignorant and homophobic statement. You assume that all homosexuals are only in it for the sex and never fall in love.

Deck Knight

24th July 2003, 12:01 AM

Originally posted by Almond
That's an ignorant and homophobic statement. You assume that all homosexuals are only in it for the sex and never fall in love.

No, what I said was simply, you don't need to neccesarily love someone to have sex with them. If a gay guy really wanted some ***, he might even resort to a woman, just because he couldn't find any gay men in the area, he wouldn't ENJOY it as much as he normally would, but he'd still get the sex he wanted.

Gays ARE like regular people. And indeed, some regular people just go around screwing hookers all their lives. Unless, of course, you are telling me that NO gay person would EVER just roam the streets looking for hookers, a downright lie, I might add.

Gays are entitled to every right, except CATHOLIC marraige. Marraige is not just Marraige, nor is Marraige just tax exemption, When its Catholic Marraige, you follow the rulebook(the Bible) However, if you don't care about/aren't required to follow the Bible, then do whatever just don't expect a Catholic Preist to marry you. As for the Government FORCING the Catholic Church to approve of Same-Sedx Marraiges, they shouldn't. Seperation of Church and State, the Church can't FORCE the government to abide by their laws, just as the government can't FORCE the Church to do anything changing their laws.

My suggestion if you are Catholic and Gay, and want a Marraige: Either convert to your partners religion, or get married by some federal yesminister in Vegas.

I have no problems with Gays who don't directly hit on me in some form. They can breath the same air, go to the same bathroom(I'll pray they aren't staring at me while I'm taking a leak), see the same movies, live life to the fullest, all this persecution crap is BS, I draw the line at Catholic Marraige, but other religions have marraige too, and they don't follow the same laws we do. Just so long as Gays know I'm not interested in any form of love they may have for me, I'm perfectl;y alright with them having the same insurance rates and everything else, they're all people.

The Rusted One

24th July 2003, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by Deck Knight
Its funny, 50 years ago if you said you wanted to marry another person of the same gender, your mother would have washed your mouth out with soap and sent you to a nun.

Why is that funny? I don't find it so amusing. Perhaps you mean that it's funny how we think differently about people who are gay nowadays; but once again, why is this funny?

I have nothing against homosexual people loving each other, its their choice. But imagine this scenario:

Two gay guys are getting married, and a little boy wearing a suit sees a lot of little girls wearing white dresses. Now, one of the gay guys is also wearing a dress.

"Mommy, why is that man wearing a dress?"

"Oh Billy, don't worry about it"

"How come he gets a dress and I don't?"

"Don't be stupid Billy, boys don't wear dresses"

"But that man is..."

And so on.

Now think of what a very strange scene that would be for a 5 year old. Dare I say his need to want to fit in with all those girls in dresses might make him run around in one later, and eventually become gay?

Since when did a gay marriage ever have to involve one of the partners wearing a dress? Both are men - they'd probably opt for both of them wearing suits.
Also - how does wearing a dress make someone gay? Does a girl who wears pants end up a lesbian? No. No offence, but you are the exact reflection of the ignorance and prejudice in today's society.

I realise that is all specualtory, but I beleive one's experiences make them gay, not some gene. Geneticists have been around for years they would have discovered a pattern by now. Now, I'll shut up when I'm older and I go to a clinic and hear a doctor say:

"You're boy has the gay gene, he is doomed never to have children outside of adoption from couples without the gay gene, congratulations, your family name ends now."

"Don't worry Maria, we can keep trying"

"This is all your fault, David! Your stupid Father had to have the gay gene, didn't he? And he had you before he found out! I'm divorcing for someone who won't give me gay gene children!"

Untill I hear that or similar, I won't buy into "I was born that way". This is like saying "I was born afraid of water" When you were almost drowned at 3-5.

Why would they have discovered a pattern by now? Only recently has the human genome been totally mapped; there is still much investigation on how separate genes work, and how they work together.
And since when was being gay like having a phobia of water? You go through a traumatic experience and learn to be scared of water; many gay people grow up exactly as straight people would, without fear of women, or of men if they're lesbian, and yet are gay in later life. Being gay isn't a phobia of being straight; it's loving another person of the same gender.

Now I realise all my examples are full of witty satire, but thats just the way I am.

Not really. But, if you believe your posts to be so satirical, and that's just the way you are - can I ask if you went through some kind of traumatic experience in concern with being serious, and so now have a phobia of solemnity that leads you to be, as you say, "witty"?

On topic...

Marraige has been around since St. Peter founded the Church almost 2000 years ago. It was designed SPECIFICALLY for man and woman, and it is defined "FOR THE PROCREATION OF CHILDREN"... I repeat.... "FOR THE PROCREATION OF CHILDREN" Not the adoption of children, not the confusing of children, not for wild gay sex and tax reasons, nbut for the PROCREATION of children". Gays cannot Procreate children amonst themselves, therefore, they cannot meet that requirement of marraige.

Nor, then, can infertile people. Or someone with a genetic condition that means that they can't have children who won't have the disease themselves. Or those with a disability that has paralysed them for life.
Marriage, at first, wasn't for the procreation of children - sex has that role. Marriage was a cultural institution before it became the norm of Western society - nowadays it's merely a holdover of yesteryear. Are you going to say, now, that gay people shouldn't have sex because sex is for procreation?
And I'm sure that implying the homosexual sex is basically just an unfettered orgy isn't quite what it's like - but rather, another example of your astounding ignorance about anything to do with the subject based on your religious views.

Oh, and btw. I'm a little catholic boy, who has read the Bible sparingly, all this came from common sense and knowledge that is explicitly stated. You can ask any Catholic Priest, Marraige is for the PROCREATION of children.

Explicitly stated...by who? Please, if you have the evidence, from the person who instituted the custom of marriage, and can explain how this person has the authority to say "this is how it is, this is how it shall forever be", provide it.

What a lot of people seem not to be able to understand is that being homosexual isn't about having sex with someone of the same gender - it's being attracted to, and falling in love, with someone of the same gender. Think about that for a minute - why is it so bad that a man should fall in love with a man? Sex is a part of almost every relationship based on love; but it isn't the basis. It's something that comes after, not the initial act (most of the time) - so why do people always think "gay/lesbian = sex between two men/women"? It's quite sickening to think that there are people out there who think that it is just about sex (Decknight seems to argue that, amongst other things, though not to the same degree as those who follow; Vega said it, in so many words; and Crazy isn't much better); in fact, after finding out the attitudes of so many people to this issue, I've begun to think less highly of them than I had before (here, I mostly refer to Vega. Before, I thought he was a pretty decent guy; however, the ignorance, hatred, and lack of willingness to actually sit back and think about what really lies at the heart of this issue, and how people directly involved are just as human as people who aren't [and lack of willingness to change his views], has led me to lose a lot of the respect I once had for him.)

Ninetales3001

24th July 2003, 03:39 AM

Originally posted by Deck Knight

Two gay guys are getting married, and a little boy wearing a suit sees a lot of little girls wearing white dresses. Now, one of the gay guys is also wearing a dress.

"Mommy, why is that man wearing a dress?"

"Oh Billy, don't worry about it"

"How come he gets a dress and I don't?"

"Don't be stupid Billy, boys don't wear dresses"

"But that man is..."

And so on.

Now, that's just pathetic. *hates stereotypes* Not all gay people are crossdressers. Hell, 50% and if not more of crossdressers are straight. Just because a gay couple is getting married, it doesn't mean one has to wear a wedding dress.

Also, if a parent is too pathetic to educate their children on issues in this world like homosexuality, crossdressing and whatnot, why would they bring them to a homosexual wedding?

Originally posted by Vega
ok, this shouldnt be taken as an attempt at flaming or such, just an opinion.

i think homosexuality in general is disgusting, sick, and inhuman. like it or not, its the truth. a man/woman was never meant to fall in love/have sex with a person of the same sex, its just wrong.

it matters not whether or not you believe in any religion, its just wrong, in any way you look at it. and accepting it is also wrong. i cant see anyway to succesfully deal with it, but until then i'll just have to live around gay ppl. i havent met any gay ppl myself, and i dont know how i would act around them, but it definitely wouldnt be in a nice and civil way, since i despise the very thought of homosexuality.

as much as this sounds "20th Century", its just how i would act.

anyhow, on topic, i dont think same sex marriages should be legalised.

now you can proceed to flame me.

gday mortals! :wave:

I respect your views and opinions on homosexuality, but feel disgusted by the part I've underlined. It's people like you that's landed several of my gay friends in hospital. It's people like you who've instilled fear in me, and in many of my gay friends, to ride our local transit system, in fear that people like you will bash us. I'm sorry, but I'm _so_ glad I don't have your morals.

The Muffin Man

24th July 2003, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by Ninetales3001
Now, that's just pathetic. *hates stereotypes* Not all gay people are crossdressers.

~*coughs*Ummm, Nine. That's not exactly an argument YOU should be making, no matter how true.

I respect your views and opinions on homosexuality, but feel disgusted by the part I've underlined. It's people like you that's landed several of my gay friends in hospital. It's people like you who've instilled fear in me, and in many of my gay friends, to ride our local transit system, in fear that people like you will bash us. I'm sorry, but I'm _so_ glad I don't have your morals.
To be fair, I feel that way about Vega in general. But don't you mean LACK of morals?

The Muffin Man

24th July 2003, 06:48 AM

Sorry to double-post but this doesn't fit into the last one:

Looking over the last couple of pages, 2 things may be said: Either homosexuality is a human only sin because we've "turned out backs on God", or that homosexuality is natural.

The first statement will lead to people claiming it's true. Congradulations, you agreed with Evolution, that monkies became humans over millions of years. How? Because if only humans can be gay, that means monkies were our earlier stages, as monkeys DEFINETLY show signs of homosexuality.

The bird-nuzzling doesn't count. That's just cute.
*insert AWWWWWW here*

The second leads to homosexuality NOT being a sin, as it is naturally occuring. Murder doesn't happen naturally. Most of the sins are REALLY BAD choices. Not naturally occuring.

Good game, Religion. I win.

Misty

24th July 2003, 08:32 AM

Come here TMM, I wish to give you a great deal of manbabies :*

en0miz

24th July 2003, 10:20 AM

I have no problem with gay people being married.This has been posted many times in this topic but... they are two people in love, etc. One thing I don't get is why Christains look down on homosexuality so much... who are we to judge (Yeah, I'm Christian)? :\ I dunno', I just find the more "christian" thing to do would be to accept people and not disaprove of them because of their perference (or whatever the case may be).

Crazy

24th July 2003, 02:02 PM

Gah I hate to bring this up but girls and boys have uummm certain reproductive organs, which means that we are suppose to like the opposite gender.But that doesn't make it wrong to like the same gender,it just seems odd but that doesn't give people the right to insult and make fun of gays.

Razola

24th July 2003, 02:42 PM

Answer hazy...try again later...

123LTJ

24th July 2003, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by Crazy
Gah I hate to bring this up but girls and boys have uummm certain reproductive organs, which means that we are suppose to like the opposite gender.

I can see why you were hesitent to bring up such a controvercial statement.

There are a few things that obviously weren't cleared up the last couple of times they were mentioned, so here goes:

1) Nobody in this thread is arguing that the Catholic Church or any other religion should be forced to allow gay marraiges. The arguement is that the gov't should be forced to allow marraiges.

2) Just because somebody is homosexual, that is not all that they are; it is a PART of who they are, and an insignificant part at that. If I asked you to describe yourself, would the first word that pops into your head be "straight" or "gay"? No, it would be funny, or fun, or loud, or (in the case of a few people in this thread) ignorant. See? Being gay doesn't change the person they are, the same way that being black/white/hispanic/latin doesn't, nor does being a man/woman.

Entropy

25th July 2003, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by Angel Blossom
I'm sorry, Vega, but what you said is the most ignorant opinion I have heard so far. This really pisses me off. They're PEOPLE. Just because they're not straight, it doesn't make them monsters, or sick, or disgusting.

Let's say your best friend told you one day, that he/she is homosexual. What are you going to do? Beat him/her to death? Will you treat your best friend like garbage for the rest of your life?

And by the way, I know a lot of men who are gay. Besides the fact that they are attracted to their own gender, they're just like everyone else. Bah, this isn't even worth it. Your ignorance just pisses me off.. -_-

Good post, Angel Blossom. I believe we should all ignore this poster. Given his carefree attitude at this issue, he should be ignored at all costs.

Bleeding Blue

27th July 2003, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by Vega
ok, this shouldnt be taken as an attempt at flaming or such, just an opinion.

i think homosexuality in general is disgusting, sick, and inhuman. like it or not, its the truth. a man/woman was never meant to fall in love/have sex with a person of the same sex, its just wrong.

it matters not whether or not you believe in any religion, its just wrong, in any way you look at it. and accepting it is also wrong. i cant see anyway to succesfully deal with it, but until then i'll just have to live around gay ppl. i havent met any gay ppl myself, and i dont know how i would act around them, but it definitely wouldnt be in a nice and civil way, since i despise the very thought of homosexuality.

as much as this sounds "20th Century", its just how i would act.

anyhow, on topic, i dont think same sex marriages should be legalised.

now you can proceed to flame me.

gday mortals! :wave:

See I dont think he should get flamed. I agree with him that I believe its totally wrong. That's my oppinion. I think life was made a certain way and that wasnt part of it. Im not religous. I dont go to church. I didnt read anything saying it was a "sin." Its sort of like stick a fork in a toaster.

And regarding to another post about your best friend being gay, I wouldnt be his friend. The very thought actually make me sick. I dont know anyone that is gay and Im glad to say that

It shouldnt be legalized and thats that. No one should be flamed for how they think. its how the gay people think when they make their desicion for their sexuallity. Still I think its wrong.

Moonlight Espeon

27th July 2003, 08:32 PM

I don't understand what's wrong with it.....
They are humans, as all of us. They are exactly the same as us, but might have different opinions. Would you insult a person if they said they liked something when you didn't? NO. It's the exact same thing with gays. It doesn't matter what they like, what they don't like, what they prefer. If you like pasta, and someone else hates it, would you then hate the other person just for having a different opinion than you? I certainly hope you wouldn't. If that's the way they want to live their life, then it's none of our buisness. So I vote yes, it should be legal, because it DOESN'T REALLY MATTER.

Angel Blossom

27th July 2003, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by Bleeding Blue
And regarding to another post about your best friend being gay, I wouldnt be his friend. The very thought actually make me sick. I dont know anyone that is gay and Im glad to say that

Okay, I wouldn't have said anything to you if you didn't say that.

So, if your best friend, who meant everything in the world to you, admitted he/she was homosexual, you would completely change your mind about him/her and hate your BEST FRIEND for the rest of your life? If that's true, it proves that you're not a true friend to anyone. Even if they don't like the opposite gender, it doesn't make them bad people. They're just like everyone else. They're people with feelings, who deserve the right to get married if they want to. Honestly, being happy to not know anyone who's homosexual is just like being happy to not know anyone who's Black, or Hispanic, or Asian. I'm not saying that homosexuality is like being Black, Hispanic, or Asian. I'm saying that it's prejudice and it's ignorant to say such things, "being happy" not to know homosexuals.. idiotic.

I'm sorry, but I had to say something about that too.
Heh, I probably shouldn't bother getting upset over these stupid remarks, anyway.

Moonlight Espeon

27th July 2003, 09:17 PM

Hmm.... I just thought of something.
If you grow up and have kids when you hate gays for what they are, would you tell your kids the Gay Monster was going to get them in their sleep instead of the Sandman? If you consider that at ALL, you are truly disgusting and have a twisted mind. There is nothing wrong with gay people, I repeat. For example (this is a connection onto Angel Blossom's question about your best friend), if your best friend was the same gender as you, and one day they admitted that they were gay and that they loved you, would you hate them and never talk to them again, even when you were close friends with them?

Mister Myuu

27th July 2003, 11:36 PM

I've noticed a dramatic increase in the discussion of this topic and others regarding homosexuality as of late. Not too long ago all people could talk about was the ill-waged War on Iraq. Such a curious thing how the interests of the fickle-minded race homo-sapien change so fast.

Anyways, my opinion on same sex marriges would be that I believe everyone has a right to proclaim their love for someone (though I still am undecided on whether love actually exists anymore) regardless of sex (or skin color for that matter). No one mortal has the right to choose what is right and wrong or who is good and evil. Besides, there is a little good and evil in everyone and everything. No one or nothing is pure and/or perfect as total purity and complete perfection is non-existant save for the lord himself. But I digress.

In the log run, it is my belief that we should all strive to get along and look passed such trivial matters as we all are entitled to live our life our own way (within reason). Same sex marriges are not sinful, I don't think. Lets just let people slip a gold band on anothers finger in a show of love and not squabble over it as it isn't that big a deal.

The Rusted One

28th July 2003, 02:44 AM

Bleeding Blue - how is homosexuality like sticking a fork into a toaster?

You obviously don't understand that, while you declare homosexuality as unnatural, it is in fact one of the many natural things Homo sapiens, as a species, is capable of. People don't choose to be gay; they just are. Obviously, then, it is something that they are naturally - making it natural for them, meaning it is a natural aspect of our species (even if it is represented in a minority).

A question for anyone who is homophobic - would you have a problem if these exact same people you have such a hatred and sense of disgust for were, say, genderless? Say it's possible for someone to possess a physical body with no sex; if two such people met, and fell in love, would there be a problem? Or if one of these people was a woman, and one a man - but they were still the exact same people mentally?

You're being blinded by your lack of understanding that people aren't defined by their possession of either an XX pair or an XY pair - they are defined by who they are mentally. Why is it that you let the physical sex of someone decide whether they can or cannot fall in love with someone? A person is a person, and two people in love are two people in love; why is it that physical gender matters? Like I said, the sex of one's body doesn't determine who they are, or who they aren't, and certainly doesn't decide who they can or can't fall in love with. Sure, it has some role to play - but when it comes down to it, being gay is part of, though a minority within, the natural behaviour of our species - and, regardless of physical gender, a person is going to fall in love with whomever they will; man with man, woman with woman, man with woman. Each is as natural as the other in terms of what our species is capable of.

Perhaps something to consider, Bleeding Blue and Vega, is that if one group of people, according to you, should not naturally be able to express who they are without fear of discrimination and other attitudes you have presented here, then you should also be restricted in what you are able to express. You, in that case, should not be allowed to come onto these boards and throw around such homophobic messages as you have; the only thing is, you're allowed to do that. You're allowed to express your opinions, your views, and be as free as you want, both here and in your lives outside these boards; why not those amongst the human population who are gay or lesbian? You deny those who you despise so much their basic rights and wants, and yet excercise yours in expressing this very thing. If you are going to be so prejudiced and homophobic, and proclaim it as wrong and bad, and something not to be accepted, then perhaps we should proclaim your right to your opinion as wrong and bad, and something not to be accepted.

Musourenka

28th July 2003, 06:59 AM

I have one question to ask?

What makes homosexuality evil? Because its not natural? I don't see homosexuality harming those not involved, and assuming its consentual, I don't have a problem with it (and marriage is consentual, even homosexual marriage). Prove to me that homosexuality harms other people, and then perhaps you can convince me that it is evil.

Mister Myuu

28th July 2003, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by The Rusted One
Perhaps something to consider, Bleeding Blue and Vega, is that if one group of people, according to you, should not naturally be able to express who they are without fear of discrimination and other attitudes you have presented here, then you should also be restricted in what you are able to express. You, in that case, should not be allowed to come onto these boards and throw around such homophobic messages as you have; the only thing is, you're allowed to do that. You're allowed to express your opinions, your views, and be as free as you want, both here and in your lives outside these boards; why not those amongst the human population who are gay or lesbian? You deny those who you despise so much their basic rights and wants, and yet excercise yours in expressing this very thing. If you are going to be so prejudiced and homophobic, and proclaim it as wrong and bad, and something not to be accepted, then perhaps we should proclaim your right to your opinion as wrong and bad, and something not to be accepted.

Prejudice people are the most hypocritical folk you can find. You should've already known that, Rusted One. They let their fear of the things they can't understand cloud their logic, making them unable to practice what they preach, so to speak.

As for Bleeding Heart and Vega.. well, as always when I come across someone with a rotting heart full of hatred, I am disappointed that you two feel someone must be judged by something as trivial as sexual preference. We were not put on this Earth to judge eachother but put here in order to live in harmony, regardless of differences. Now, saying you've never met a homosexual yet you still despise them disappoints me even more. How can you judge a whole group without ever meeting a single one. To me, it sounds like someone has manipulated the both of you into believing their beliefs (most likely parents).

Tell you what, here's an "assaignment" for the both of you. I want you to go out and meet someone who is homosexual and have a civilized conversation with them. I want you to determine if being gay makes someone less human, like it seems you believe. After looking at them in an unprejudiced, unbiased light, I want to to come back to this thread and attempt to tell me you think homosexuals are beneath you simply because of their choice of lifestyle. Unless you don't do this with an open mind, I doubt you'll be anti-gay anymore.

Ninetales3001

28th July 2003, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by Bleeding Blue

And regarding to another post about your best friend being gay, I wouldnt be his friend. The very thought actually make me sick. I dont know anyone that is gay and Im glad to say that

I'm gay with a really close straight best friend. I told him what you said and he couldn't stop laughing at that. :) It's really sad that you think that way, and I don't mean upset sad.

BTW, thanks to you my best friend and I now have an inside joke about sticking forks in toasters. XD

~Skye~Luchador

28th July 2003, 07:40 PM

If people were getting banned for dissing on religion then I think we must ban those who diss on homosexuality.

123LTJ

29th July 2003, 11:43 AM

OK, this is sad:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=676&ncid=676&e=1&u=/usatoday/20030729/ts_usatoday/5361164

I'll try and summerize. Basically, since the Supreme Court started favoring gay rights, support for gay rights has dropped something like 15%!

Ugh. Just thought I'd bring this up.

kainashi

30th July 2003, 12:59 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/30/bush.gay.marriage/index.html

i find that to be bull****. another reason not to vote for him in 2004. ;)

Musourenka

30th July 2003, 01:09 PM

Bush is, once again, on the wrong side of the issue. Whether or not marriage is only between a man or a woman is not for the government to decide -- let the priests do that. This law should be taken out of the books.

Blink4JC

31st July 2003, 02:57 AM

Homosexuality is wrong. Yes, I, myself, was gay, but I BECAME UNGAY! I'm currently straight, beleive it or not. I almost made myself become straight because of my religion and family and my teachings. The Bible is here to TEACH us. Those who keep saying to think for yourself--how do you learn in school? Reading and being taught to by those things that are meant to instruct, such as the Bible. Someone said that they are Christian and then Bible allows gay marriages, well then read Leviticus 18:22 AND Romans 1:26-27. It says that homosexuality is wrong. Now I'm not saying it's a choice, I once was gay and didn't chose that way, I see it more of a curable disorder. People don't choose to be autistic, either, or ADD, or Fugue disorders, but some mental disorders, such as MPD and OCD can be cured. Homosexuality and Bisexuality SHOULD be qualified as Sexuality Disorders. It's not a choice, but it is curable. The Bible clearly states that it's wrong more than once. Most of you heathens are going to hell because you think you're too smart to be taught, you must make your own wrong conclusions instead of the definite ones set out by the Bible. I don't care if I'm terribly flamed by this or not cuz I rarely post, but homosexuality is wrong and a bunch of people suffering from it can't change that. Marraige was meant for procreation, and males cannot procreate and neither can women. MARRIAGE AND SEX WERE MEANT FOR PROCREATION. Bottom Line: Homosexual Marriages = Wrong!

Musourenka

31st July 2003, 03:16 AM

Whether homosexuality (and thus, homosexual marriages) are wrong or not, the government does not (and should not) have the power to enfore morality on people.

The Rusted One

31st July 2003, 03:41 AM

I'm not going to tell you about homosexuality; obviously, if you're not lying to make a point, you'll know more about it than I, or any other straight person on these forums. However, have you ever stopped to think that maybe you're bisexual? Just because currently you aren't attracted to any member of the same sex as yourself doesn't mean you're "ungay"; you used to be, at least, attracted to them - much the same as if you were straight and then became attracted to someone of the same gender as yourself, you aren't "unstraight" - you're bisexual.

Now, you say you "made" yourself straight - you mean, you pushed your true self to the back, to please others and live up to their expectations. You aren't being true to yourself - which is quite sad.

Homosexuality isn't something that can be cured, nor does it need to be cured; there's nothing wrong with it. Religion is the main reason why it is viewed as wrong; perhaps if there was no such religious belief, there'd be little prejudice.
Now, not to turn this into a religious debate, but one of the fundamental Christian beliefs is that "god" made man, giving him all he has now - so, if homosexuality is so wrong, why is it something that people are born as? Don't give me the excuse that "'god' gives people the choice" - because, like you said, it isn't a choice - and don't say it's a test. If this is regarded by your supreme being as wrong, why make people like it to begin with?

People don't suffer from homosexuality; they suffer the prejudice of people like you (despite what you say about your past). They suffer from the hatred imparted upon them by bible-bashing fundamentalists who can't stand anyone being different from the perfect replica of what they read in a book.

Why is homosexuality a sexual disorder? If that's so, then shouldn't being straight also be regarded as a sexual disorder? I mean, a gay man falls in love with another gay man; a straight man falls in love with a straight woman. Tell me what the difference is, aside from that in one, both are men. The feelings are the same; so why is it wrong?

You also, despite what you say, seem to regard homosexuality as only sleeping with a member of your own gender - but it isn't. It's having feelings for someone of your own gender, it's living the way you want to with the person you love. The sexual part of it isn't what defines a relationship - and yet, you continuously see people regarding homosexuality as sleeping with someone of the same gender, and not as finding love in someone of your own gender, finding trust in someone of your own gender - being happy with someone of your own gender.

And up till now, I have been quite civil. But you know, being condescended in ways such as, "you heathens", really makes me lose all respect I might have ever had for you had we met anywhere else. You're so caught up in your own little world, in which you've decided that everyone must do what you believe to be right, and if not, well, they're going to hell. You are what we call an extremist; and, believe it or not, people such as yourself earn very little respect, and aren't tolerated very well. Yes, this might seem to contradict the issue that tolerance of difference should be exercised; but then, you don't get other people abusing others for their difference the way you are. You don't get other people regarding those who don't share your beliefs as lesser beings.

Who said our conclusions were wrong? You? Oh, gee, I see. You seem to believe that, because you believe the words of some story written a while ago, you're better than everyone, and get to say such things. You're not better. In fact, while I will readily say that all humans are equal in rights, etc., I'd be willing, and am willing, to say that you have shown yourself to be the lesser person here.

Now, you say that males can't procreate, and nor can females - and while, if you mean, two males or two females, you may be right in terms of natural reproduction, science defies that; it's obviously biologically possible.

You're stuck believeing the words of a book written to explain why the world was the way it was before science could explain that; sure, that's your choice. But coming into these forums, labelling all of us here heathens, and being generally condescending, and bigoted, and prejudiced, is not acceptable. If we're all doomed to hell, you'd best not associate with us; the easiest way to ensure we don't have some kind of detrimental effect on your "holier than thou" attitude, or corrupt you in any way, is to not post here.

You may call us heathen, if it makes you feel better about yourself; it just makes you look sad, and let's us know that there is no level below the one you've apparently sunken to. You call us heathen; I call you the worst kind of human being in existance.

123LTJ

31st July 2003, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Blink4JC
Someone said that they are Christian and then Bible allows gay marriages, well then read Leviticus 18:22 AND Romans 1:26-27. It says that homosexuality is wrong.

Quoting from a contemporary Bible:

Leviticus 18:22: "It is disgusting for a man to have sex with another man."

Disgusting being the operative word there. It doesn't say it's a sin. Just gross. Also, keep in mind that this is the book of the bible that tells us to sacrafice goats and bulls for God. (Leviticus 1-8 ) It also tells us that women in their period or for 3 weeks to a month after giving birth may not go to church or see a priest. (Leviticus 12) If you swear at your parents, you shall be put to death. (Leviticus 20:9) Do you follow all of those laws, too?

Romans 1:26-27: "God let them follow their own evil desires. Women no longer wanted to have sex in a natural way, and they did things to each other that were not natural. Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men. They did shameful things with each other, and what happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds."

We're not talking about wild gay sex here, we're talking about loving another human being... sex is something that may or may not go along with that. Also, realize that the Bible was written by PEOPLE, not God directly. God supposedly spoke through people, but what was to stop people from putting their own twist on things here and there? Plus, the Bible has been translated and updated so many times, who's to say that it wasn't changed somewhere in there?

Also, you once again brought up the fact that marriage is for reproduction. So a sterile man should never get married?

Me:1. You: a lifetime of ignorence, unneeded repentance for your "sin" of homosexuality, and confusion as to why not all of your "demons" are gone. Please realize that statistically, nearly half of the people "converted" to heterosexuality commit suicide. I hope you can work things out, and come to grips with your life whatever way it goes. But please, PLEASE do not go around telling people that they are sinners for being gay. It's simply not true. Many homosexuals are very nice, and are great people. Homosexuality does not define who a person is, it is merely a portion of who they are.

Mister Myuu

31st July 2003, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by Blink4JC
Homosexuality is wrong. Yes, I, myself, was gay, but I BECAME UNGAY! I'm currently straight, beleive it or not. I almost made myself become straight because of my religion and family and my teachings. The Bible is here to TEACH us. Those who keep saying to think for yourself--how do you learn in school? Reading and being taught to by those things that are meant to instruct, such as the Bible. Someone said that they are Christian and then Bible allows gay marriages, well then read Leviticus 18:22 AND Romans 1:26-27. It says that homosexuality is wrong. Now I'm not saying it's a choice, I once was gay and didn't chose that way, I see it more of a curable disorder. People don't choose to be autistic, either, or ADD, or Fugue disorders, but some mental disorders, such as MPD and OCD can be cured. Homosexuality and Bisexuality SHOULD be qualified as Sexuality Disorders. It's not a choice, but it is curable. The Bible clearly states that it's wrong more than once. Most of you heathens are going to hell because you think you're too smart to be taught, you must make your own wrong conclusions instead of the definite ones set out by the Bible. I don't care if I'm terribly flamed by this or not cuz I rarely post, but homosexuality is wrong and a bunch of people suffering from it can't change that. Marraige was meant for procreation, and males cannot procreate and neither can women. MARRIAGE AND SEX WERE MEANT FOR PROCREATION. Bottom Line: Homosexual Marriages = Wrong!

Well lookie what we have here.. a full-fledged bible thumping, holier-than-thou, extremist, funDUMentalist ignoramus. I can't help but comment that this sounds almost exactly like your average extremist rant. You have an ugly lie about once being gay (its one of those self-righteous sacrificial funDUMentalist ignoramus :rolleyes: ), references to bible scriptures (even though the 'good book' is falsified for the convenience of the higher authorities), and the use of their most favorite word.. heathen... It's quite funny that this Blink4JC, in trying to make homosexuality (and those defending it) look bad, has broke one of the words of God. Those being 'Judge not lest thee be judged.' Well Blinky, looks like you'll be joining the rest of us in hell you sinner!! :D

Now, as for this bull**** you wrote.. where to begin.....

Homosexuality is wrong. Yes, I, myself, was gay, but I BECAME UNGAY! I'm currently straight, beleive it or not. I almost made myself become straight because of my religion and family and my teachings.

First, assuming you truly were gay and that isn't a lie in order to make a point, I'd like to be the bearer of bad news and tell you that, in reality, you still are gay. You've simpily relegated how you really feel to the back burner because you friends, family, and church were condemning you just as you've done to all of us in your post. I hope, for your sake, you were truthful on this account. Remember.. God frowns on liers ;)

The Bible is here to TEACH us. Those who keep saying to think for yourself--how do you learn in school? Reading and being taught to by those things that are meant to instruct, such as the Bible.

So you're saying we shouldn't think for ourselves? That we should all be a bunch of mindless zombies that think, act, do everything the same exact way as set out in some book that has been deemed true. Honestly, that has got to be the single most idiotic statement in this entire post. If God had meant us to be that, God wouldn't have given us the ability to choose. Either that or God would have made us all dogs. How do we learn in school? Well, I had to teach myself because most of the teachers only cared about getting their paycheck then going home. But that is a whole other topic entirely. And the bible isn't meant to instruct. The bible we have today is meant to corrupt. It may once have been a book dictating the word of God and his many adventures (for lack of a better word) but now it dictates the word of the government and so many corrupted preists. Basing a religion on the bible, nowadays anyway, is not the wisest of ideas.

Someone said that they are Christian and then Bible allows gay marriages, well then read Leviticus 18:22 AND Romans 1:26-27. It says that homosexuality is wrong.

As stated above, any and all bible scriptures are, in my opinion, automatically deemed irrelevant in arguments because of the falsification of the bible over the last centuries. Enough said.

Now I'm not saying it's a choice, I once was gay and didn't chose that way, I see it more of a curable disorder. People don't choose to be autistic, either, or ADD, or Fugue disorders, but some mental disorders, such as MPD and OCD can be cured. Homosexuality and Bisexuality SHOULD be qualified as Sexuality Disorders. It's not a choice, but it is curable.

Oh you've GOT to be kidding me :rolleyes: Blinky, you're a sad, pathetic little man for even thinking that homosexuality is a disease. Your ignorance, however, is a disease and a highly contagious one. I would suggest locking yourself in a room before it spreads. (I don't like insulting people, but I think this called for an exception)

Most of you heathens are going to hell because you think you're too smart to be taught, you must make your own wrong conclusions instead of the definite ones set out by the Bible.

*laughs uncontrolably for 5 minutes before being able to type* You gotta love it. Blinky thinks he has the authority to damn people to hell. The harsh truth for you blinky is that you're the heathen because you think you're almighty and higher than everyone else. Also, the second definition of 'heathen' in the dictionary is 'A strange and uncivilized person'. I think that sums you up in a nutshell along with the rest of your extremist comrades. Oh, and another word used in that definition was 'pagan'. Did you know, blinky, that christianity stole many of its beliefs and rituals from the early pagans? Things such as Christmas and Halloween were practiced be pagans before the christians decided to adopt them as well. And then the christians persecuted pagans for their beliefs later on. Talk about your mother of hypocricy.

Marraige was meant for procreation, and males cannot procreate and neither can women. MARRIAGE AND SEX WERE MEANT FOR PROCREATION.

Actually, marriage (you spells marriage wrong, by the way ;) ) was an invention of some religious sect for some reason the eludes my mind for the time being. In truth, there was no such thing as marriage in the eras that the bible is said to have taken place. It was simply added later on as the bible began to be falsified.

As a closing thought, blinky, I'd like to ask you a question. What would happen if you and some other christian funDUMentalist were to have a difference of opinion on some matter. Would you both be wrong and thus damned to hell or would this cause some sort of weird paradox that would cause the universe to implode in on itself? Just curious. :D

geoff

31st July 2003, 03:23 PM

I like how Bush and the Pope are taking such a strong stand against same-sex marriages, but did nothing of that extremity when preists were (and still are) raping young boys. Yeah, their priorities are SO straight.

This makes me sick. Christianity currently makes me sick to my stomach. But that's just because so many Christians interpret it oddly. I applaud 123LTJ for his most recent post here. Christians can be so hypocritical that it makes me want to smack them all to their senses. **READ: Please don't take any offense if you happen to be Christians. I don't mean to hurt anybody in saying that, I'm just stating my current feelings. I truly am sorry if anyone gets offended.**

But getting away from the religious part of this... Blink4JC- you are so wrong. Like TRO said, that's not 'ungay'. You'll always be gay inside, no matter what you make ppl think. You're bisexual, and there's nothing wrong with that. Yet you've forced yourself to believe there is

GR-Gligar

31st July 2003, 05:41 PM

123LTJ

31st July 2003, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by GR-Gligar
The bible has been written by idiots

Whoa. That's a bit harsh. I happen to believe that many of the ideas of the Bible are good. I look at the Bible as a good guideline for living life, and I like a lot of it's lessons. I just don't take it verbatum. I believe that many of the books are wonderfully written with good morals and stories. Of course, there are some that I don't believe should be taken too seriously (Leveticus, as already brought up), and some that are just stories (most of the old testament).
Some are very beautifully written (Psalms, Lamentations, Song of Solomon, Ecclesiastes), and that alone conveys some ingenuity on the authors' parts.

So please, despite that fact that it contradicts itself, and has been used for the wrong reasons before (our pal Blinky here being case-in-point), that does not mean that it was "written by idiots". That being said, you made some good points: much of Leveticus was written because it NEEDED to be in those days. It wasn't so much a moral thing, but more of a survival thing.

GR-Gligar

31st July 2003, 06:52 PM

you could always blow me =)

Mew2K

31st July 2003, 09:42 PM

Wow. I can't beleive some of the people here. First, let me say that i am a heterosexual male. I don't know any gay people, but I do know a closet bisexual. I think it's just sick that people can't understand one another anymore. *sighs*

Has anyone here read Uncle Tom's Cabin before? I personally see no difference between being born into slavery and being born gay. You have no choice on either matter. When Abe Lincoln made slavery illegal, hundreds and thousands of peolpe thought it was horrible. The same thing is happening now. Grr...

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BEING GAY!!!

Blink4JC

1st August 2003, 02:03 AM

First off: you all are so into equal rights for everyone and how everyone should be treated equally but then you just flame the heck outta me for posting my opinions and teachings.
Second off: i was gay in a sense that I lusted after men for a period of time and it was almost hell itself, but through praying and trying and personal psychology (I'm studying to be a psychiatrist, despite what y'all think of me) I have weened myself off of the men and now I only lust after women and it gives just as much enjoyment.
Third off: I'm sorry I was born in the deep south and actually believe in something that was taught to me. I believe in the Bible wholeheartedly and nothing y'all can say about your hippocracy (bashing me for disagreeing with something when y'all just come and bash me more) can change the views I have been taught for 17 years.
Fourth: someone said that if we obeyed the Bible we would all be marrying our siblings. They only did that in Genesis when they 'had' to, later on in the Bible (such as Leviticus) it blatantly mentions for approximately 15 verses how incest is an abomination/sin.
Fifth: Whoever said I misspelled marriage doesn't understand the concept of typos, when I spelled it correctly about three times later on.
Sixth: The book Leviticus in the Bible was written with the purpose of describing the act of worship and to explain the majority of abominations, which are considered sins in the eyes of God. The talk of sacrificial animal offerings in the first part of the book are currently still used in a differnt form: money. If anyone would actually go to church here they would know most, if not all, churches take up money offerings every service.
Seventh: The purpose of Christianity is to get everyone to a better place after death where they will live eternally, you just have to follow a few rules to get there and the life is so much better and so much longer.
Eighth: The Old Testament was written before Jesus was on this earth, but after Jesus came and died, the tables were somewhat turned and the rules were less lenient because you could easily repent your sins (Jesus gave us all that capability), but yet in Romans (the New Testament), Homosexuality is still mentioned to be a sin. But it is still a sin and all you have to do to get back in God's good graces and get to heaven is to repent (which involves trying to change what you did to repent for).

I just wish the world was more hardcore Christian nowadays, talking to all of you almost makes me depressed how few good Christians there are left in the world today. Parents should get involved in a church and push Christianity more in the homes than they have been lately.

The Rusted One

1st August 2003, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by Blink4JC
First off: you all are so into equal rights for everyone and how everyone should be treated equally but then you just flame the heck outta me for posting my opinions and teachings.

Wrong. We are tolerant of tolerance, and intolerant of intolerance. We would have accepted your opinions if you hadn't be so offensive and downright bigotted about them.
Besides, remember that little thing about you not caring if you got flamed, because you don't come here often anyway?

Second off: i was gay in a sense that I lusted after men for a period of time and it was almost hell itself, but through praying and trying and personal psychology (I'm studying to be a psychiatrist, despite what y'all think of me) I have weened myself off of the men and now I only lust after women and it gives just as much enjoyment.

How can being true to yourself be hell - unless you aren't living your life for you, but are trying to live up to someone else's expectations, or the expectations of you according to a book?
Weaned yourself off men? You mean, denied your true self and are now living a false life.

Third off: I'm sorry I was born in the deep south and actually believe in something that was taught to me. I believe in the Bible wholeheartedly and nothing y'all can say about your hippocracy (bashing me for disagreeing with something when y'all just come and bash me more) can change the views I have been taught for 17 years.

Refer to my response to your first point. We're not hypocrites; we are intolerant of nothing but intolerance, and those who are guilty of it.
Also, just because we don't believe what you say doesn't mean we don't believe anything - and perhaps you shouldn't be apologising for coming from the south, but for being so religiously elistist, psuedo-superior, and blatantly intolerant.

Fourth: someone said that if we obeyed the Bible we would all be marrying our siblings. They only did that in Genesis when they 'had' to, later on in the Bible (such as Leviticus) it blatantly mentions for approximately 15 verses how incest is an abomination/sin.

Right now, I'm going to steal one of my friends' thunder, and follow in the footsteps of others who have pointed out other aspects of the bible that have been totally overlooked - see the following link.

http://www.ilovebacon.com/061202/h.shtml

Fifth: Whoever said I misspelled marriage doesn't understand the concept of typos, when I spelled it correctly about three times later on.

You mean, like the rest of us, you also make mistakes? Nooooo...aren't you concerned that maybe we are corrupting your innocent and pure soul?

Sixth: The book Leviticus in the Bible was written with the purpose of describing the act of worship and to explain the majority of abominations, which are considered sins in the eyes of God. The talk of sacrificial animal offerings in the first part of the book are currently still used in a differnt form: money. If anyone would actually go to church here they would know most, if not all, churches take up money offerings every service.

Animals are animals. Money is not. The collection plate, as far as I know, is a donation to fund church activities; while I've never been to church, that much seems obvious, at least.
Also, you should go back and read that link I gave again; you can't slaughter money and do everything else that seems to be necessary for it to be a good sacrifice.

Seventh: The purpose of Christianity is to get everyone to a better place after death where they will live eternally, you just have to follow a few rules to get there and the life is so much better and so much longer.

No, the purpose of christianity is to worship a creator god. And the man people say was his son.
But let's say that you're right; why is it that you believe you're right, and Buddhists, who believe that reincarnation is reality (and, in effect, eternal life), and that if you live well, you reach a higher level that is so much better than this eternal life? Or why not believe that by living three times a virtuous life, you were granted access to the Isles of the Blessed, as the Ancient Greeks did?

Eighth: The Old Testament was written before Jesus was on this earth, but after Jesus came and died, the tables were somewhat turned and the rules were less lenient because you could easily repent your sins (Jesus gave us all that capability), but yet in Romans (the New Testament), Homosexuality is still mentioned to be a sin. But it is still a sin and all you have to do to get back in God's good graces and get to heaven is to repent (which involves trying to change what you did to repent for).

So, because you can shirk the responsibility for your actions, the rules were made more strict? What for? I mean, no matter what the rules, if you wanted to break them and then apologise, and make it all better, you'd do it - and being able to do so, in fact, would encourage people to act badly.
In fact, I'd be willing to bet that this change in view you speak of about the rules, etc., was actually an excuse to make it so that people could have faults and not be at risk, in their beliefs, of going to hell. I mean, people act badly, no matter what they believe; only now that they can apologise and it will be okay, they're going to do it with no guilt.

I just wish the world was more hardcore Christian nowadays, talking to all of you almost makes me depressed how few good Christians there are left in the world today. Parents should get involved in a church and push Christianity more in the homes than they have been lately.

I would say the same about Evolution and Atheism, but you know, I'm not a fanatic. The world can be a mixture of beliefs, and people should be able to choose for themselves; that is, as long as people like YOU don't try to force their beliefs down other people's throats. But we both know that that's never going to happen.

123LTJ

1st August 2003, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by Blink4JC
First off: you all are so into equal rights for everyone and how everyone should be treated equally but then you just flame the heck outta me for posting my opinions and teachings.

No, we "flame the heck outta" you for posting things that are offensive and hate-filled. I can see you being one of those people that picket the funerals of gay teens. The fact is, you've basically told all of us that we are going to hell. Can you see how that might not go over too well? I personally know that only God Himself can oversee who does and doesn't get into heaven, and I have no say in it. I'd appreciate not dictating the afterlife of people you've never met from now on.

Second off: i was gay in a sense that I lusted after men for a period of time and it was almost hell itself, but through praying and trying and personal psychology (I'm studying to be a psychiatrist, despite what y'all think of me) I have weened myself off of the men and now I only lust after women and it gives just as much enjoyment.

Honestly, you can trick your mind into anything. You studying psychology and all, I'm sure you realize this. It doesn't make it true. You can force yourself to see red as green with enough practice and/or hypnosis, or other various mind techniques. Just because you've "trained" yourself to be straight doesn't make it your true self. I hope you can realize this at some point.

Third off: I'm sorry I was born in the deep south and actually believe in something that was taught to me. I believe in the Bible wholeheartedly and nothing y'all can say about your hippocracy (bashing me for disagreeing with something when y'all just come and bash me more) can change the views I have been taught for 17 years.

And I'm sorry you were raised in the deep south and were raised to believe whatever you're told, without thinking for yourself. Do you disagree with me saying that the Bible was written by people, not God directly, and that it may have been falsified somewhere in there or in the concurrent translations thereafter? Please, I'd like to know.

Sixth: The book Leviticus in the Bible was written with the purpose of describing the act of worship and to explain the majority of abominations, which are considered sins in the eyes of God. The talk of sacrificial animal offerings in the first part of the book are currently still used in a differnt form: money. If anyone would actually go to church here they would know most, if not all, churches take up money offerings every service.

I believe you're refferring to tithing, which means you give 10% of your income to the church. Since this is mentioned later in the Bible, with no statement of replacing the sacrafice, this arguement can be thrown out. Plus, I'm not sure if God would appreciate the sight of money's blood, or enjoy its smell while it burns upon the altar.

Eighth: The Old Testament was written before Jesus was on this earth, but after Jesus came and died, the tables were somewhat turned and the rules were less lenient because you could easily repent your sins (Jesus gave us all that capability), but yet in Romans (the New Testament), Homosexuality is still mentioned to be a sin. But it is still a sin and all you have to do to get back in God's good graces and get to heaven is to repent (which involves trying to change what you did to repent for).

Really? I thought Jesus came to the earth to relieve all of us from our sins. I didn't know that all Jesus did for us was give us the gift of repentance. Please tell me the verse in Romans that gives you this point of view, and I will gladly shoot it down for you.

I just wish the world was more hardcore Christian nowadays, talking to all of you almost makes me depressed how few good Christians there are left in the world today. Parents should get involved in a church and push Christianity more in the homes than they have been lately.

I agree, there are a lot of hypocritical Christians out there who preach God's love and tolerance, but turn around and show extraordinary amounts of hate and anger towards people. Please tell me that your southern upbringings at least taught you to recognize irony.

Almond

1st August 2003, 02:42 PM

Using "God" as an argument here should be banned, since there's no proof as to whether he exists or not.

Sixth: The book Leviticus in the Bible was written with the purpose of describing the act of worship and to explain the majority of abominations, which are considered sins in the eyes of God.

Funny how people like you ignore the things you don't want to follow, huh?

The Muffin Man

1st August 2003, 04:49 PM

Homosexuality is wrong. Yes, I, myself, was gay, but I BECAME UNGAY!
~Being gay is not like being whiny. You can't just stop...

I'm currently straight, beleive it or not. I almost made myself become straight because of my religion and family and my teachings. The Bible is here to TEACH us. Those who keep saying to think for yourself--how do you learn in school? Reading and being taught to by those things that are meant to instruct, such as the Bible.
~Actually, in school we're told PROVEN FACTS. Things that people have written down and preserved for only abotu 150 years usually at the most. What about the bible? We're made to believe that over 2000 years, not one ideal has changed. Not one THING has changed...

Someone said that they are Christian and then Bible allows gay marriages, well then read Leviticus 18:22 AND Romans 1:26-27. It says that homosexuality is wrong. Now I'm not saying it's a choice, I once was gay and didn't choose that way, I see it more of a curable disorder.

~Disorder? Excuse me, but a "Disorder" does NOT involve a choice...

People don't choose to be autistic, either, or ADD, or Fugue disorders, but some mental disorders, such as MPD and OCD can be cured. Homosexuality and Bisexuality SHOULD be qualified as Sexuality Disorders. It's not a choice, but it is curable. The Bible clearly states that it's wrong more than once.
~Doesn't it also mention NUMEROUS contradictions?

Most of you heathens are going to hell because you think you're too smart to be taught, you must make your own wrong conclusions instead of the definite ones set out by the Bible. I don't care if I'm terribly flamed by this or not cuz I rarely post, but homosexuality is wrong and a bunch of people suffering from it can't change that. Marriage was meant for procreation, and males cannot procreate and neither can women. MARRIAGE AND SEX WERE MEANT FOR PROCREATION. Bottom Line: Homosexual Marriages = Wrong!

You know, the first part of the first sentence brought an interesting point up.

That point is that you're an idiot. Hear that? Yeah, it's your argument. It died. It's pretty hard to sustain life with ALL THOSE HOLES...

Now, I must quote the reason Misty wishes to have my man-babies.

Originally posted by me.

Looking over the last couple of pages, 2 things may be said: Either homosexuality is a human only sin because we've "turned our backs on God", or that homosexuality is natural.

The first statement will lead to people claiming it's true. Congradulations, you agreed with Evolution, that monkies became humans over millions of years. How? Because if only humans can be gay, that means monkies were our earlier stages, as monkeys DEFINETLY show signs of homosexuality.

The bird-nuzzling doesn't count. That's just cute.
*insert AWWWWWW here*

The second leads to homosexuality NOT being a sin, as it is naturally occuring. Murder doesn't happen naturally. Most of the sins are REALLY BAD choices. Not naturally occuring.

Good game, Religion. I win.

TMM - 10.
Religion - 0.

Bleeding Blue

1st August 2003, 09:45 PM

Originally posted by Mister Myuu
Tell you what, here's an "assaignment" for the both of you. I want you to go out and meet someone who is homosexual and have a civilized conversation with them. I want you to determine if being gay makes someone less human, like it seems you believe. After looking at them in an unprejudiced, unbiased light, I want to to come back to this thread and attempt to tell me you think homosexuals are beneath you simply because of their choice of lifestyle. Unless you don't do this with an open mind, I doubt you'll be anti-gay anymore.

I can honestly say that if i was somewhere with people meeting new people and met someone gay, I wouldnt treat him any differently. I would tell him my name shake his hand and that would be it. I wouldnt spend the night hanging out with him because it wouldnt be uncomfertable but I dont think they are beneath me just because of their sexual preference. I just dont think its right.

And for saying people like me and vega are evil is in a way contradicting your self. You're telling us that thinking this way is wrong. we say homosexuality is wrong and you go on about how we are wrong.
What makes it wrong thinking the way we do? NOTHING
Whats wrong with Homosexuality? NOTHING. I just dont believe it it.

Its sort of like a rival school. Sometimes theres not always a reason you dislike them. you just do.

Kadabra790

1st August 2003, 10:30 PM

Let same-sex marriages be legal. They aren't hurting anyone, yes? The gays have given a lot to society, at least throw them a bone and do this.

Ok, I'm glad I'm Jewish. The Jews are far more tolerant towards gays then Christians. Not to say Judism is the best, or anything. (Nor do we push Judism on people...)

And about the gay choice or gene, quoting Bill Maher:
"Do you go to high school and say 'Hm, how can I get beat up more?'?!"

I think that summarizes that issue nicely.

*editeditfixfix*
Now, I said I was jewish. I still eat ham and shellfish, and not go to temple every friday. How can this be? I'm a Reformed Jew. I honestly do not feel like explaining anything, and I think it is good if people use Google to learn things.
I know gay Jews, and they are not frowned upon by other Jews. Jews have come a long why from the Bible. Now there are three types of Jews. Reformed, Conversative, and Orthodox. The Orthodox, unlike the first two, are extreme in their religion, and will not even use cars on the Sabbath. They will be the ones who dislike gays. The Reformed Jews, and most Conversative, will just not care. We're all just people in the end, folks!

The Rusted One

2nd August 2003, 04:56 AM

Originally posted by Bleeding Blue
I can honestly say that if i was somewhere with people meeting new people and met someone gay, I wouldnt treat him any differently. I would tell him my name shake his hand and that would be it. I wouldnt spend the night hanging out with him because it wouldnt be uncomfertable but I dont think they are beneath me just because of their sexual preference. I just dont think its right.

While you aren't saying that you hate gay people, the fact remains that you aren't prepared to move past this slight discomfort around them enough to realise that you needn't feel that way about them. You're seeing them as gay and that's it - the problem with that is that someone who is gay is only different if you make them different. If you see them as gay and only gay, then that's what they are - but if you see them being gay as just another part of who they are, much the same as you being straight, then it remains something in the background. I don't see you seeing a straight person as straight and that's it; you see them as a person who happens to be straight, but by no means does it dictate what you say to them. In fact, you probably don't give it any thought at all. So why is it such an issue when it comes to people who aren't straight?

And for saying people like me and vega are evil is in a way contradicting your self. You're telling us that thinking this way is wrong. we say homosexuality is wrong and you go on about how we are wrong.
What makes it wrong thinking the way we do? NOTHING
Whats wrong with Homosexuality? NOTHING. I just dont believe it it.

We don't think you're evil; we think you're prejudiced and bigotted. Thinking that someone is lesser than you because of something as inconsequential to you as this is wrong; having an opinion isn't, but only if it isn't a negative one to anyone based on ignorance and prejudice.

Its sort of like a rival school. Sometimes theres not always a reason you dislike them. you just do.

Rivals tend to try to best each other, and prove that they're the better of the pair. You not liking gay and lesbian people isn't about besting them; it's about you not being willing to view them as the same as you.

Pidgeot

2nd August 2003, 05:49 AM

I would just liike to reiterate what alot of people have said by saying that there is no way of changing who you are. Your sexual preference is detirmined at birth. You cannot change it. Its not a gene, there is no scientific way to explain it. Its just something your born with.

I do believe in same-sex marriages. I have nothing against people who are gay. If two people love each other, wether they are gay or straight, they should be able to make it official via marriage.

Almond

2nd August 2003, 07:54 PM

And for saying people like me and vega are evil is in a way contradicting your self. You're telling us that thinking this way is wrong. we say homosexuality is wrong and you go on about how we are wrong.

I'm sick of that argument. You act like there's no difference between being homosexual and being homophobic, when in fact there's a huge difference. By being homosexual, one does not hurt anybody. However, by being a homophobe, you do hurt people - either by committing hate crimes or, if you're not violent, by saying we don't have the right to marry the people we love.

Don't even try and say that your hate is equivalent to my love.

Shadow Trainer Ash

2nd August 2003, 09:03 PM

I'm very sorry to say this, but by some of you people's incredibly SICK comments about how homosexuality is a disguting thing, and how you wouldn't even want to BEFRIEND one, I'm quite honestly happy to say that I'm not at all religious. I'm both Christian and Jewish, and never have read a religious book of either. I've never once been to a church or temple in my entire life except to watch a friend get baptized. And thankfully, I'm very happy I'm this way.

Homosexuality is something to be RESPECTED. How would you feel, if you were one of the only straight people in this world, and people were telling you that you HAVE to be gay, and shouldn't be allowed to fulfill yourself with happiness by getting married to someone you truely love? I think it's utterly disgusting, sick, and twisted that somebody would let a BOOK (please, do not flame me over this) stop someone from marrying someone they love with all their heart and would do anything for. Besides, I'm sure you've seen movies. Boy sees girl. Boy falls in love with girl. So on, so forth. Well, isn't one of the morals of that "little story" supposed to show its audience that love has no boundaries? Love is said to have no face, so shouldn't that also occur with gender? It's wrong to say that homosexuality is sick, and try to force on others that that's a true statement. They're people. Just like us, only they prefer to love the same gender. They can't help who they love, just like straights can't help who they love.

Besides, for you all "I'm good because I'm religious" blah blah people, if God thought that homosexuals shouldn't have the same rights as hetrosexuals, then why the hell did he create them in the first place?

Last year at school, I recall my friend telling me about a discussion about homosexuality in which occured during her math class. She agrees fully with my opinions, but decided to keep quiet on the discussion because of the critism which would come out at her because of her opinions. Dain, a boy in her class, clearly stood up to everybody in this class and expressed his opinions on how everybody is equal, considering we all have feelings, bleed, and breath. But what did he get out of this action? He got insulted, tormented, beat up after school, and was automatically considered gay. And why? Because he had an OPINION which expressed how he felt others deserved to have rights, no matter how different they are.

I mean, saying you hate homosexuals is just as prejudiced as saying you hate someone just because they're Asian. Come on, they're PEOPLE. They have feelings.

But what made me FUME was this "little" comment I found.

Originally posted by Bleeding Blue
And regarding to another post about your best friend being gay, I wouldnt be his friend. The very thought actually make me sick. I dont know anyone that is gay and Im glad to say that

You say being homosexual is inhuman? Well, you know what I say to that? People like YOU are considered inhuman to me. Just to even THINK that there are people out there like you, who look down on people like that, makes me so sick I could just die right now after spitting at your shoes. I accept your opinion that you think it's wrong, but to say that... this makes me even sadder that I live in this pathetic world. Everything is in chaos, and never, I think, will everyone ever be considered equal. Us humans... we're so ignorant, we can't even accept our own RACE. Just how sad is that? I mean, if you look at how some animals cooperate, you'll see how stupid we actually are compared to them.

Shadow Trainer Ash

2nd August 2003, 09:33 PM

Sorry to double post, but I have another comment I'd like to add for bleeding Blue.

What if your child ended up being a homosexual?

Would you just abandon him or her? Would you disown them? Just the thought of this is making me sick...

Kadabra790

2nd August 2003, 09:35 PM

You know, obviously gays have some purpose. They've been around for hundreds, maybe thousands, of years. In some times and places it was a crime to be gay. The Nazis went after them. Yet despite the death and prosecution, gays are still around today. Now, tell, me. If gays are so inhuman and immoral and just horrible, and something that displeases God, then why are they still around? Truly they must have some purpose than to be ridiculed and classed as being horrible.

MechanicalChaser

3rd August 2003, 01:07 AM

i put yes, they should be able to do so, if not, why? I know many many people don't aprove of even gay people, let alone marriges! But, they need aq good reson, & honestly, they can't do a good one, if its just "its not natural, why should they do it?" first of all, everthing is natural, not one thing isn't a chemical waste plant is natural, because we are all a part of nature, this entore world is a giant piece of 100% pure nature! nothing artificial, because all thats artifical in the natural world, comes from natural things, which is still technacally natural, as it still comes from nature, & there is no non-natural action of lifestyle, a non-natural lifestyle would be something that hasn't been done yet, but when it does, it becomes one, so the first gay couple was natural! Another thing, why would anyone care about someone elses life, that has not, will not, or do anything to affect your own? so why not have same-sex marriges legal? there is no good reason, thats why so many people are just waiting for the chance.

have i made my point?

Crazy

4th August 2003, 09:27 AM

GAH! Being gay is not fricken natural! But people should not make fun of gays because of that.Sheesh

123LTJ

4th August 2003, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by Crazy
GAH! Being gay is not fricken natural! But people should not make fun of gays because of that.Sheesh

HOW is it not natural? 1/10 of the people in the world are gay/bisexual. Only 1/50 are redheads. Does that make being a redhead unnatural? Please, educate me.

Crazy

4th August 2003, 10:56 AM

Oh sorry now that I look at that it does't sound like what I meant for it to sound like I am sorry.What I meant was it isn't normal but people shouldn't be jerks and jackasses just because it isn't normal.

Kadabra790

4th August 2003, 12:20 PM

That's human nature, to pick on those that they deem are physically or mentally inferior. Even though most of those people don't deserve to be picked on. Heck, some gays are very rich and famous. Siegfried and Roy, Nathan Lane, Harvey Fierstein....

The Rusted One

4th August 2003, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by 123LTJ
HOW is it not natural? 1/10 of the people in the world are gay/bisexual. Only 1/50 are redheads. Does that make being a redhead unnatural? Please, educate me.

Wow, I knew I was a rarity, but 1/50? I didn't the odds were that little.

Anyway, "normal" is subjective; it depends on who you ask for what "normal" is. There is no TRUE normal, there are only general states of being that occur most that people expect to exist; that doesn't make them normal, however. Being straight is no more normal than being gay - it's just far more common.

The only way to get a proper sense of "normal" is to ask individuals what their sense of "normality" is - ask a straight person if being straight is what they regard as being "normal" to them, and they will say, "yes". Ask a gay person the same question but with "straight" replaced with "gay", and they will say "yes", also. A person who regards something as abnormal will not be that something - if it's abnormal to them, it's unnatural to them, and they cannot live anyway other than how they naturally would, be it with someone of the opposite gender, or the same.

Whatever you are, you're normal for you - if you were to be any different, and knew it wasn't the way you should be, you'd be abnormal.

As said above, I have red hair; am I abnormal? Someone else may think that I am, because of the basic rarity of people who share the same hair colour as me - but to me, I'm normal. If I was to (naturally) have brown hair, I'd also think I was normal - as that would be me. Same as if a straight person was straight, they'd regard themselves as normal within themselves, and if they were gay rather than straight, they'd feel equally normal within themselves. It isn't up to everyone else to decide whether they're normal or not; it's up to them.

Deck Knight

4th August 2003, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by Dark Nidoknight
Im bisexual, may the mindless homophobic religious fanatics flame me. Same-sex marriage should be allowed, who are you to tell people they cannot love whom they love?

Oh yes, and to all those people who keep saying "Homosexuality is evil because the Bible says so": The Bible was written long ago when reproduction was absolutly vital to humanity. Now, there are billions and billions of us, so who cares if a few of us do not reproduce and create more humans. Plus, not everyone follows your precious book. :rolleyes: I sure don't.

And to all those who say it is a choice: No, it is not. I am not exactly sure if it is an actuall gene or something that just develops as you grow.

One small correction. You can LOVE whoever you want, love is free(but not cheap if you're a prostitute, O_O). You just can't MARRY them. You could however, have as many gay sex romps as you please. I don't condone that behavoir, but technically I can't control your life.

Deck Knight

4th August 2003, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by geoff
I like how Bush and the Pope are taking such a strong stand against same-sex marriages, but did nothing of that extremity when preists were (and still are) raping young boys. Yeah, their priorities are SO straight.

This makes me sick. Christianity currently makes me sick to my stomach. But that's just because so many Christians interpret it oddly. I applaud 123LTJ for his most recent post here. Christians can be so hypocritical that it makes me want to smack them all to their senses. **READ: Please don't take any offense if you happen to be Christians. I don't mean to hurt anybody in saying that, I'm just stating my current feelings. I truly am sorry if anyone gets offended.**

But getting away from the religious part of this... Blink4JC- you are so wrong. Like TRO said, that's not 'ungay'. You'll always be gay inside, no matter what you make ppl think. You're bisexual, and there's nothing wrong with that. Yet you've forced yourself to believe there is

You talk about hypocracy, even if the guy was an idiot, its foolhardy for you to tell him that he cannot become straight because he was once gay. Or maybe he's bi? Who knows, who cares? I don't see what the big deal is. Its just marraige. Whats next, gays will want to become preists too? Or maybe they won't stop untill we have a gay pope.

Look, I don't care about any other church but me own. The Protestant churches can do whatever the hell they like, the Catholic Church should NEVER allow Gay Marraige. But since Protestantism is a deviation from the original teachings of Christ, Martin Luther didn't like some things, so he posted a sign on a door and made his own religion with slight deviations. And of course, entropyt continues and it may now deviate to allowing Gay Marraige, after 2,000 years of teachings against it. My suggestion to Protestants: If you don't want gay marraige, convert to Catholicism. WE won't allow that sort of deviance from whats been taught since the beginning of time.

Remember, it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, or Amy and Eve. Meh. Not in the Catholic Church, thats all I care about. If the Protestants allow it, well, they've been deviating since the Middle Ages.

woz

4th August 2003, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by 123LTJ
1/10 of the people in the world are gay/bisexual.

i'd love to see your sources for this information...

i'm not bothered about this subject really, for i am neither gay or religious, so i'm quite content to sit on the sidelines and leave them to it..although i would like to see a conclusion to this argument, i doubt we'll see one for many years...(until religion is obsolete, as i feel we'll find some proof...not in the near future of course)

The Muffin Man

5th August 2003, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by Deck Knight
You talk about hypocracy, even if the guy was an idiot, its foolhardy for you to tell him that he cannot become straight because he was once gay. Or maybe he's bi? Who knows, who cares?
~Being gays not like being whiny, like I said. You don't "realize a flaw" and change. He's in denial.
I don't see what the big deal is. Its just marraige. Whats next, gays will want to become preists too? Or maybe they won't stop untill we have a gay pope.
~Why can't they? Are you saying gays are NOT equal?

Look, I don't care about any other church but me own. The Protestant churches can do whatever the hell they like, the Catholic Church should NEVER allow Gay Marraige. But since Protestantism is a deviation from the original teachings of Christ, Martin Luther didn't like some things, so he posted a sign on a door and made his own religion with slight deviations. And of course, entropyt continues and it may now deviate to allowing Gay Marraige, after 2,000 years of teachings against it. My suggestion to Protestants: If you don't want gay marraige, convert to Catholicism. WE won't allow that sort of deviance from whats been taught since the beginning of time.
~DK, Those rules were written 2000 years ago...IN THE FREAKING DARK AGES, DUDE!

Remember, it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, or Amy and Eve.
~You know that one line killed all your credibility :\
Meh. Not in the Catholic Church, thats all I care about. If the Protestants allow it, well, they've been deviating since the Middle Ages.

Solution

5th August 2003, 12:13 AM

Before I post, let me say that I am very tempted to post something controversial(sp), simply because its funny how you get a rack of replies saying "lolrz j00r opinion inst vlaid!!1".

I'm catholic and I'm taught that engaging in any homosexual act is wrong. I'm not sure if I always believe that or not. I'm all for legalizing gay marriages. It doesn't affect me anyways. I have to admit that I feel uncomfortable around gay men though, because I'm afraid that they might hit on me, ._.

kw0ffz0r

5th August 2003, 12:18 AM

I'm not gay, but I think all people whom are homosexual and have physical and mental attraction to someone of the same gender should be allowed to marry one another, and spend their life together.

No, it's not "normal". But if it wasn't supposed to be allowed, it would not happen like that. Everyone acts like they can control their sexual feelings towards people of their gender, but you know what, they can't.

So treat them like they are normal people, not weird because they love someone of the same gender. That's like treating people with mental disabilities differently because they are less fortunate than us.

Give them a break, you ****ing hypocrites.

And it's funny someone like Vega disapproves marriage of people of his same sexuality.

haha, played.

geoff

5th August 2003, 12:21 AM

Originally posted by Deck Knight
You talk about hypocracy, even if the guy was an idiot, its foolhardy for you to tell him that he cannot become straight because he was once gay. Or maybe he's bi? Who knows, who cares? I don't see what the big deal is. Its just marraige. Whats next, gays will want to become preists too? Or maybe they won't stop untill we have a gay pope.

Look, I don't care about any other church but me own. The Protestant churches can do whatever the hell they like, the Catholic Church should NEVER allow Gay Marraige. But since Protestantism is a deviation from the original teachings of Christ, Martin Luther didn't like some things, so he posted a sign on a door and made his own religion with slight deviations. And of course, entropyt continues and it may now deviate to allowing Gay Marraige, after 2,000 years of teachings against it. My suggestion to Protestants: If you don't want gay marraige, convert to Catholicism. WE won't allow that sort of deviance from whats been taught since the beginning of time.

Remember, it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, or Amy and Eve. Meh. Not in the Catholic Church, thats all I care about. If the Protestants allow it, well, they've been deviating since the Middle Ages.

... 'was once gay.' <--- Makes no sense, as is impossible.

And FYI, there's now a gay bishop. That close enough to a priest for ya? =P I don't see what the big deal is. Gay... straight... it's just a preference.

The Bible was written HOW long ago? Back then, gay= no offspring= senseless act= bad= sin. Nowadays, I'd say less than 5% of all sexual acts result in offspring. Are all those acts sins, too? No? Oh, that's right. Less people are dying, so it's okay. If the Bible had been written today, nowhere in it would say that homosexuality/homosexual acts was/were a sin. Do you understand that? No? Oh, well you must be one of those people who blindly follow everything the Bible says instead of making up your own opinions about things. (And the whole "whats been taught since the beginning of time" crap is bull****. I'm pretty sure Christianity wasn't around during the reign of Cleopatra.)

It's sad... gays are treated so similar to the way blacks were treated in the early/mid 1900s. And where did that stem from? Slavery. Why? Well, I'm pretty sure the Bible mentions slavery and says it's okay so... why not? If you don't see what I'm getting at, you need help.

kw0ffz0r

5th August 2003, 12:57 AM

Blink4JC

5th August 2003, 01:03 AM

This post is going to be short and sweet and lose what any possible grain of respect I may have had, but I don't care seeing as I actually have a life and have fun and don't live online.
Anywayz, believe it or not guys, the cast system still exists. It's been around almost since the dawn of time and still exists today, less than it had been before but its still there and always will be as long as humans have egos, which will always happen. Get used to it, its human nature to have confidence and think that some other groups of people are inferior to you. Don't y'all even tell me that y'all are open to all people, me as a perfect example. Y'all label me the idiot, which shows that y'all think y'all are better than me. I think y'all are losers and wrong, so I think I'm better than some (not all) of y'all becuase we have a great difference of opinion and lifestyle.
Also, to defend myself and more to the point of this topic, it is possible to become straight, or "ungay" if you wish to call it. I have read many cases about people doing so, and so have I. I don't care that y'all think of me obviously so it doesnt matter if y'all think I'm still gay, but I'm not.
Anywho, why do I never hear anything about people protesting for gay rights nowadays? I have never heard (until this topic) of a particular person who is really trying for gay rights. Unless you count Rosie O or Ellen D; they act, not protest. (Which by the way I love their acting even if they are gay). But tell me this--why does the gay community continue to let their life style be parodized on TV? So many tv shows nowadays ridicule gay life style instead of supporting it!
And I would like to see the cold hard facts about this thing about the gay bishop and the aforementioned percentages about homosexuality rates and red hair rates.

PKMN Master

5th August 2003, 01:44 AM

Ohhh well, such an interesting topic... just what I need to re-activate my brain after three months of vacations... I think that the main question is: Should gay-marriages be allowed?

Probably.

Now, let's move on to the why.

First of all, I must say that I'm not that pro-marriage either... I really wouldn't like to be married before I'm at least 28... but I think if someone wants to marry someone else, they should marry!

Now, to some of you it might seem, unusual, weird, freaky or even ugly... but that's not the case... I strongly believe that being gay is something that you didn't choose. You just are. Just like if you're tall, or have more hair, or even man or woman... now, you can't change that. I saw this post in which the guy claims how he was once gay, buy now he's ungay... Lol, lol, lol and more lol. Lol, lol, lol, lol, lol, lol, lol, lol... lol, lol, lol, lol, lol, lol, lol, lol... lol, lol, lol, lol, lol... Ahem... he's gay, and he'll continue to be gay until the final day of his repressed and sad life... he might think "I'm straight and I'm happy" but I bet once in a while, when he sees a hot guy, he thinks to himself: he's hot. But then he thinks on how he's been educated, on how his parents and the society around him would react, and how they ignorantly feel disgusted towards his preference, and then he begins to feel horrible... sad... repressed... lonely... and then he says again: "I'm straight and I'm happy"... yeah, right.

The only thing these kind of people is doing is ruining their own lives... I mean, they will be the only unhappy ones. What's so wrong about being gay? Don't come and say "sex is for reproduction purposes" if there were only 100 humans on the face of earth, that would be true, but right now, I think we're about the 6,000,000,000,000,000 score. Yeah, do we really need reproduction that much right now?

The Vatican has recently stated that Gay marriage is wrong and stuff... and priests having sex with children isn't wrong? wasn't the holy inquisition a bad thing? isn't wrong that there are bishops and archbishops whom are technically rot in money and opulence, while there are hundreds of millions of people diying from starvation? The bible has good and bad points. You should indeed not kill... but how come that menstruating women can't go to church?

And ohh yeah, the so called demons... I still laugh at stupid and ignorant people from my country burning pkmn cards (actually, I feel like crying, cause I swear that I saw an holofoil charizard being thrown into the fire ;.; ) because a priest told them that pikachu was the devil and that they made us slaves of the evil and how Ekans and Arbok said backwards meant snakE and kobrA, who knows what the other names might be summoning... or something like that... the same thing with Yu-Gi-Oh!, i heard again on the news that these new cards held horrible devil-like creatures, and that they sent a twisted message to the children... I was like OMFG!!!!! I'm catholic, but after being witness to such dumb things, I tend to not trust that much on what the church says :\

Now, I've seen comments on how Bushy boy is against gay marriage... first, he should tell the truth about his deals with the Bin Laden family, and how he knew about 9/11, stop being corrupt, resign to his job, send to jail the thief of vice president he has, (prick cheney), send to a senile house his defense guy rumsfeld, and then, maybe, he might be allowed to say a word about this issue...

And finally, I would like to state the next:

There is nothing wrong with gay marriage. It doesn't bother me, and I can't see a reason that it should bother someone else. But, unfortunately, the hate won't stop until all those old-fashioned, ignorant, resentful and homophobic people realize, that that kind of thought is just... meaningless, destructive... that's why I said probably... there may be laws that permit it, but until our decadent society permits itself to accept gay people like many of us already do, it seems to be a hard goal to achieve.

:(

PS: the 1 out of 10 rate, is for real... just search the net for it.

The Rusted One

5th August 2003, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by Blink4JC
This post is going to be short and sweet and lose what any possible grain of respect I may have had, but I don't care seeing as I actually have a life and have fun and don't live online.

Living exactly by a book is not having a life. Perhaps you're unaware of that. Also, I feel the need to point out that obviously you possess less life than any member on this board, barring Vega and to a degree, Bleeding Blue, amongst others.
And at which point did it seem a good idea to start off a post with petty, immature and quite desperate "insults"?
You have a "life" - governed by some man who wrote a book who died how many thousand years ago? At least two. You have "fun" - as long as you don't sit near to anyone "sinful", or accidentally come into contact with someone to be deemed "heathen". You "don't live online", though obviously what we say to you or about issues you have an opinion on does matter; you return, time and again, to try to prove yourself the better person, all the while ignoring what people actually say to you, and refuse to listen based on your "choice" of mentality about this issue. Sure sounds like you've got a life to me. Or maybe that's "life".

Anywayz, believe it or not guys, the cast system still exists. It's been around almost since the dawn of time and still exists today, less than it had been before but its still there and always will be as long as humans have egos, which will always happen. Get used to it, its human nature to have confidence and think that some other groups of people are inferior to you.

All that can be gathered from that is that you believe homosexual individuals to be beneath you, to be inferior to you - and apparently, that justifies your views.
How exactly are gay and lesbian people lower down in the caste system? You make such a statement, obviously referring to them, without actually backing up your point with proper evidence, or proof, or anything else other than bigotry, which seems to come so very naturally to you.
Now, obviously, you're choosing to believe that, because you think that belittling someone and thinking of them as inferior to you because of what they are is okay, the caste system is something that has always existed - no it hasn't. It's a human creation, based on human laziness; and if you try to tell me that the bible says it's okay, don't. Obviously, it isn't okay; the bible was written to deal with issues that needed explanation at the time, and anything that worked well for one person but not another was justified by "the will of god" - basically, it was an excuse for anything that wasn't right, and was obviously recognised as not right by all types of people.

Yes, humans have egos; this does not justify your attitude. You may think you're better than one individual because of personal differences, and because you dislike them for their personality - that's okay, as individuals conflict all the time, and do so because of personal reasons. HOWEVER, disliking a group of people due to what they are, with no knowledge of who they are personally, or what they may be like, is NOT justified.

Don't y'all even tell me that y'all are open to all people, me as a perfect example. Y'all label me the idiot, which shows that y'all think y'all are better than me. I think y'all are losers and wrong, so I think I'm better than some (not all) of y'all becuase we have a great difference of opinion and lifestyle.

Wrong; we WERE prepared to listen to you; but once we heard the derogatory messages, and blatant homophobia, we lost respect for you. If you hadn't been so homophobic, or hostile, and had respected the fact that some people are homosexual and it isn't wrong, then we would have accepted your views, and that would have been fine - but you appeared, basically proclaimed all of us "heathen", stated that homosexuality is wrong, and left again. That does not earn respect, and means that people will be less willing to listen to you next time due to your bigotted attitude. At no point, before you spoke, did we look at you and think, "we don't like him" - of course, you can't say the same about the gay, lesbian and bisexual members of this board.

We didn't think we were better than you until you opened your mouth, spat out the insults, and refused to listen to our reason (which, you might find, was offered to you surprisingly free of flaming despite your own petty name-calling); beforehand, we believed you to be equal to us in all respects. We label you the bigot because of your unjustified hatred of homosexuality, and refusal to give us your own reasons why, or listen to us.
Obviously, however, by your initial use of the word "heathen" and proclamation that we were all going to hell, you thought yourself better than us; your own words are why you're met with such hostility now. Your current contradiction of yourself by using the words, "losers" and "you're wrong" don't help your case, in that matter.

Also, to defend myself and more to the point of this topic, it is possible to become straight, or "ungay" if you wish to call it. I have read many cases about people doing so, and so have I. I don't care that y'all think of me obviously so it doesnt matter if y'all think I'm still gay, but I'm not.

If you didn't care, you wouldn't try to defend yourself. That's human psychology, too. It's possible for people to supress who they are, and be very unhappy, at least in later life - it isn't possible for them to change their very being.

Anywho, why do I never hear anything about people protesting for gay rights nowadays? I have never heard (until this topic) of a particular person who is really trying for gay rights. Unless you count Rosie O or Ellen D; they act, not protest. (Which by the way I love their acting even if they are gay).

Maybe you're not listening. You obviously don't have such things as gay rights parades, and gay-pride marches, etc., in your particularly place of residence.
Besides, why should someone have to demand rights to receive them? You never demanded any, I'll bet - so why do you have them?

But tell me this--why does the gay community continue to let their life style be parodized on TV? So many tv shows nowadays ridicule gay life style instead of supporting it!

How sad you truly are. "It's on TV, therefore it MUST be right!" - or, perhaps, these TV programmes are only like that because at the moment, society tends to be unaccepting of homosexuality? It doesn't mean that homosexuality shouldn't be accepted - it just means that sad little bigots, quite similar to yourself, would rather that didn't happen.
TV isn't always right. Please, learn this fact.

And I would like to see the cold hard facts about this thing about the gay bishop and the aforementioned percentages about homosexuality rates and red hair rates.

You mean, you need proof for this, but when it comes to believing in some all-powerful being with no proof, you're all-too-ready to worship it without question? How odd. For you, I mean. I find it quite amusing.

Deck Knight

5th August 2003, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by geoff
... 'was once gay.' <--- Makes no sense, as is impossible.

And FYI, there's now a gay bishop. That close enough to a priest for ya? =P I don't see what the big deal is. Gay... straight... it's just a preference.

The Bible was written HOW long ago? Back then, gay= no offspring= senseless act= bad= sin. Nowadays, I'd say less than 5% of all sexual acts result in offspring. Are all those acts sins, too? No? Oh, that's right. Less people are dying, so it's okay. If the Bible had been written today, nowhere in it would say that homosexuality/homosexual acts was/were a sin. Do you understand that? No? Oh, well you must be one of those people who blindly follow everything the Bible says instead of making up your own opinions about things. (And the whole "whats been taught since the beginning of time" crap is bull****. I'm pretty sure Christianity wasn't around during the reign of Cleopatra.)

It's sad... gays are treated so similar to the way blacks were treated in the early/mid 1900s. And where did that stem from? Slavery. Why? Well, I'm pretty sure the Bible mentions slavery and says it's okay so... why not? If you don't see what I'm getting at, you need help.

I read the Bible once, I can barely quote a line of Genesis, and as for your "New Age" Bible. Saying what would be in it is purely speculation. For all we know, it could say that aliens are on Mars, Obesity is attractive, and we could have "The Gospel According to Adolph Hitler", followed by "The Acts of the Adolph".

In short, speculate all you want, I haven't read the Bible, but it IS more of a HISTORY book, rather than a STORY. You could say the same thing about Books regarding Black people 100 years ago, where it said all sorts of nasty things about them, I bet. That was History, and History shows mistakes that were made. Now, obviously people were a lot less... lax... 2,000 years ago, but the point is, the Bible says homosexuality is disgusting. Well, so is eating ketchup on bologna to some people, but I can deal...

Anyway, its like I said, its your life, I can't tell you how to live it, and I won't suggest you stop your chosen lifestyle. But Marraige has LITTLE to do with lifestyle choices, and more to do with the church. All I'm saying, is in no way should the CATHOLIC church, allow Gay Marraiges. It said it was disgusting 2,000 years ago, it still is, IMO, today. The Catholic church teaches its wrong, but there is a simple answer. If the Protestant Church allows it, get married there. Or by some minister in Las Vegas, go there, gamble, get drunk, and get married to the man/woman of your dreams(since your mind won't be awake).

Deck Knight

5th August 2003, 07:59 AM

Originally posted by PKMN Master
The Vatican has recently stated that Gay marriage is wrong and stuff... and priests having sex with children isn't wrong? wasn't the holy inquisition a bad thing? isn't wrong that there are bishops and archbishops whom are technically rot in money and opulence, while there are hundreds of millions of people diying from starvation? The bible has good and bad points. You should indeed not kill... but how come that menstruating women can't go to church?

People are corruptable, please tell me if YOU do not wish to be rich, happy, and full of hot sex partners of your preference. See the point?

And ohh yeah, the so called demons... I still laugh at stupid and ignorant people from my country burning pkmn cards (actually, I feel like crying, cause I swear that I saw an holofoil charizard being thrown into the fire ;.; ) because a priest told them that pikachu was the devil and that they made us slaves of the evil and how Ekans and Arbok said backwards meant snakE and kobrA, who knows what the other names might be summoning... or something like that... the same thing with Yu-Gi-Oh!, i heard again on the news that these new cards held horrible devil-like creatures, and that they sent a twisted message to the children... I was like OMFG!!!!! I'm catholic, but after being witness to such dumb things, I tend to not trust that much on what the church says :\

I'll agree that was sort of stupid, the only creepy thing about Pikachu is that its fat and its cheeks are red. Yugioh monsters ARE kind of freaky though... but meh. Its just a Game and a TV show, and the people who start studing the occult are just insane phycopathic idiots.

Now, I've seen comments on how Bushy boy is against gay marriage... first, he should tell the truth about his deals with the Bin Laden family, and how he knew about 9/11, stop being corrupt, resign to his job, send to jail the thief of vice president he has, (prick cheney), send to a senile house his defense guy rumsfeld, and then, maybe, he might be allowed to say a word about this issue...

He's a politician. 'Nuff Said.

And finally, I would like to state the next:

There is nothing wrong with gay marriage. It doesn't bother me, and I can't see a reason that it should bother someone else. But, unfortunately, the hate won't stop until all those old-fashioned, ignorant, resentful and homophobic people realize, that that kind of thought is just... meaningless, destructive... that's why I said probably... there may be laws that permit it, but until our decadent society permits itself to accept gay people like many of us already do, it seems to be a hard goal to achieve.

:(

PS: the 1 out of 10 rate, is for real... just search the net for it.

Italics are fun.

master jao

5th August 2003, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by Solution
I'm catholic and I'm taught that engaging in any homosexual act is wrong.

i'ùm catholic either, and I'v never been taugh that!! never heard of that even once during lessons... even heard a priest saying it's not mentionned anywhere that homophosexuality is bad. i think it should depend on who is reading, but christianism has so many branches now that it does not have many sens more. religion is just like homosexuality, it's a choice I guess. So why not married? I love the one I love, and if I could, I'd just do more than offering him a ring as a symbol of my true love.
that's all.

123LTJ

5th August 2003, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by Blink4JC
This post is going to be short and sweet and lose what any possible grain of respect I may have had, but I don't care seeing as I actually have a life and have fun and don't live online.

Don't worry about losing respect, it's all gone by now.

Don't y'all even tell me that y'all are open to all people, me as a perfect example. Y'all label me the idiot, which shows that y'all think y'all are better than me. I think y'all are losers and wrong, so I think I'm better than some (not all) of y'all becuase we have a great difference of opinion and lifestyle.

No, we aren't open to you not because we think we're better than you, but because we KNOW we're better than anyone who isn't accepting of people who do things that don't hurt anyone. The things you do and say HURT PEOPLE. There's a huge difference between disliking somebody for being gay and disliking somebody for hating gays. Y'all better think these things through before accusing us of being losers. Anyways, what denotes us as being losers compared to your cool, suave, popular self?

Also, to defend myself and more to the point of this topic, it is possible to become straight, or "ungay" if you wish to call it. I have read many cases about people doing so, and so have I. I don't care that y'all think of me obviously so it doesnt matter if y'all think I'm still gay, but I'm not.

Then you've also read the cases of people "relapsing" into their "sinful ways", and often causing irreparable damage to themselves in the process.

Anywho, why do I never hear anything about people protesting for gay rights nowadays? I have never heard (until this topic) of a particular person who is really trying for gay rights. Unless you count Rosie O or Ellen D; they act, not protest. (Which by the way I love their acting even if they are gay).

Because you're a shut in? I dunno, almost every night on the news recently there's been something about how the Supreme Court has ruled in favor of homosexuals, or how Ontario now allows gay marraiges, or how "President" Bush says that marraige should be restrained to just between a man and a woman, or how the first ever gay man is trying to become a Bishop. Obviously you're either not paying attention or ignoring these things.

But tell me this--why does the gay community continue to let their life style be parodized on TV? So many tv shows nowadays ridicule gay life style instead of supporting it!

The GAY COMMUNITY? Like they all get together and tell the networks what they can and cannot say about them. Let's face it, the "gay community" doesn't exactly have a whole lot of influence in society.

And I would like to see the cold hard facts about this thing about the gay bishop and the aforementioned percentages about homosexuality rates and red hair rates.

Search the web, I'm not your damn secretary.

Moonlight Espeon

5th August 2003, 03:05 PM

Hmm, figures, I'm Catholic too, but I have never heard that homosexuality is evil or disgusting. A person should be able to make desicions for themselves. If they want to be with a person of the same gender, then there's nothing wrong with that. It's not causing you any trouble, it's not like a store is going to close down just because a gay couple was in there (bad description, I know). If Catholics are against gays, then religion turned out to be as ridiculous as I thought it was (religion should be about beliefs and things, not trying to change how people think).

Chris 2.1

5th August 2003, 05:49 PM

At my age, the line between Straight and Gay sexuality is a curvy squiggle, and I'm going through it every day, sometimes one way, sometimes the other, but it will probably determine itself when i'm older.

I think that emotions that lead to marriage can't restrict themselves to a gender, so I'm for Gay Marriage in a liberal sense. I know of gay people, some are radically stereotypical while others carry a certain subtlety about it, and I am willing to accept some people have preferences to gender, one or the other. I don't mind, as long as they really feel in love and feel the same way about Men as I do about women.

That's what is to me, so if there are any Homosexuals, you have my support.

Kadabra790

5th August 2003, 06:36 PM

People probably won't even know if they are gay are not until they at least are in tehir very late teens and twenties. It's a funny thing about hormones, they screw you up =-/ It's a rollar coaster of emotions and feelings, and you're in the front car. Anyway.

I'm no expert on Christianity, but wasn't they something about not insulting your neighbor (aka fellow man)? I'm really not sure. I'm not devout and zealous about religion. But I'm fairly sure there was at least a paragraph in that 2-dictionary sized book about respecting your fellow man.......
Or do gays and other "unnatural" people don't count? Maybe I'm just making this up. Please enlighten me.

Musourenka

5th August 2003, 08:55 PM

I think many of you are missing the point.

The government has no business regulating the private lives of others, and that includes marriage.

Whether homosexuality is right or wrong, whether it is by choice or determined at birth, whether marriage is between a man and a woman only or can be between anyone, the government should not be butting in where it does not belong.

kw0ffz0r

5th August 2003, 08:59 PM

Originally posted by Musourenka
I think many of you are missing the point.

The government has no business regulating the private lives of others, and that includes marriage.

Whether homosexuality is right or wrong, whether it is by choice or determined at birth, whether marriage is between a man and a woman only or can be between anyone, the government should not be butting in where it does not belong.

They are the government, they belong everywhere.

Musourenka

5th August 2003, 09:03 PM

Originally posted by kw0ffz0r
They are the government, they belong everywhere.
*grabs his M79*

Not in my house. :D

Moonlight Espeon

6th August 2003, 01:42 PM

"They are the government, they belong everywhere"?

Hmm... If that's true, I feel bad for myself and other Americans that are practically being controlled like robots by the government. I have a strong feeling that the government is going way too far with this, they are practically ruining lives by doing this. I always thought the government blew everything out of proportion, but not THIS bad. >_<;

They say we can have our own opinion, but then whoever has an opinion that's isn't EXACTLY like theirs, they banish it. How wonderful.

Pokemon Kid

18th September 2003, 11:41 AM

I don't really care. We all know they'll go to hell later on... LOL!

KaptainSarcasm

18th September 2003, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by AnimeFever
I don't really care. We all know they'll go to hell later on... LOL!

Who, the gov't, or gay people?

If it's the gov't... then YAY!!! Hell for Dubbuya! Let's get him delivered there ASAP.

If it's gay people.... I at least would like to get married before I'm sent to hell. I mean, sheesh! At least my wife would be there too.

The Rusted One

18th September 2003, 06:26 PM

But why do homosexual people go to hell? What exactly are they doing that's so wrong, and why is it wrong? In truth, nothing - it's just that people don't like difference, and any small example of it is rapidly turned into something "evil", something to be frowned upon, something to be thought of as wrong.

But what is it exactly that is so wrong with homosexuality? And if you say, "because they're sleeping with someone of the same gender", then think of this - they aren't so much sleeping with someone of the same gender as they are sleeping with someone they love. They don't necessarily have to be sleeping with each other, either.
Besides this, what exactly is it that makes two men, or two women, who sleep together, so hell-bound?

I'm reminded of the old saying, "love knows no bounds" - well, no, it doesn't, really. Why should people enforce limits on it then? It seems hypocritical and redundant to say, "you can't restrict love", etc., and then turn around and try to do just that (by saying things like, "homosexuals go to hell", or making homosexual marriage wrong).

Razola

18th September 2003, 06:52 PM

Homosexuals don't go to Hell just for being gay. if people can break the 10 main rules and go to heaven, then why can't gay people be gay and go to heaven?

It's yet another way the Church twists the Bible to support an agenda.

Green_Pikachu

19th September 2003, 02:19 PM

Some people don't understand that gay people don't choose to be gay. In some post on the first page i read, "sure, let them be gay." It's not like they wake up one day and say, "damn, i'm going to go be attracted to the same sex today."

It just doesn't work that way. ABSOLUTELY same sex marriages should be allowed AND recognized, because yes, they are two different things. There is no difference between straight and homosexual people. It's not contagious, hanging around them won't make you gay. I know some REALLY prejudice people, and all their defense is, is "it's not right." What's not right? The fact that they are attracted to the opposite sex? And who are the STRAIGHT people to say what is not right? Who gave us the authority to decide what is moral, and what is immoral?

Do what feels right. Don't bend to society, because frankly, society blows.

Razola

19th September 2003, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by ThePariah
Some people don't understand that gay people don't choose to be gay. In some post on the first page i read, "sure, let them be gay." It's not like they wake up one day and say, "damn, i'm going to go be attracted to the same sex today."

Aye, this be quite true, laddie.

It just doesn't work that way. ABSOLUTELY same sex marriages should be allowed AND recognized, because yes, they are two different things. There is no difference between straight and homosexual people. It's not contagious, hanging around them won't make you gay. I know some REALLY prejudice people, and all their defense is, is "it's not right." What's not right? The fact that they are attracted to the opposite sex? And who are the STRAIGHT people to say what is not right? Who gave us the authority to decide what is moral, and what is immoral?

Avast, you bilge rat, tis society that be settin' up what be wrong and what be right. If morals were bein' too vague, then the murderin', plunderin', and lootin' I do every day would be fine. After all, who said that those things be wrong, ya landlubbin', fool?

Do what feels right. Don't bend to society, because frankly, society blows.

Do ye be hearin' correctly? Society be the one makin' the rules, and that not always be a bad ting, ya saucy lad. Society thought it was might right ta own slaves a few nips ago, but now tis a wrong thing! Society may not be as perfect as the sea, but it does changes, be it very slowly.

Now back ta the galley wit cha. Matrimony be no excuse fer lully-gaggin' about!

Green_Pikachu

19th September 2003, 02:39 PM

if you'd really like to debate me on the subject matter we can. just don't speak in the piratean tongue anymore. ;[

Razola

19th September 2003, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by ThePariah
if you'd really like to debate me on the subject matter we can. just don't speak in the piratean tongue anymore. ;[

Only if ye quit speakin' in yer landlubbin' tongue.

Pokemon Kid

21st September 2003, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by The Rusted One
But why do homosexual people go to hell? What exactly are they doing that's so wrong, and why is it wrong? In truth, nothing - it's just that people don't like difference, and any small example of it is rapidly turned into something "evil", something to be frowned upon, something to be thought of as wrong.

But what is it exactly that is so wrong with homosexuality? And if you say, "because they're sleeping with someone of the same gender", then think of this - they aren't so much sleeping with someone of the same gender as they are sleeping with someone they love. They don't necessarily have to be sleeping with each other, either.
Besides this, what exactly is it that makes two men, or two women, who sleep together, so hell-bound?

I'm reminded of the old saying, "love knows no bounds" - well, no, it doesn't, really. Why should people enforce limits on it then? It seems hypocritical and redundant to say, "you can't restrict love", etc., and then turn around and try to do just that (by saying things like, "homosexuals go to hell", or making homosexual marriage wrong).

DUH! 'Cause they're SINNING!

And yes. I did mean the Goverment.

Green_Pikachu

22nd September 2003, 03:09 PM

Originally posted by AnimeFever
DUH! 'Cause they're SINNING!

And yes. I did mean the Goverment.

uh...if people act on their homoerotic desires, they are not sinning. they're living a healthy, normal life. The whole concept of sinning is absurd. If I call you a name, that's sinning, therefore I'm going to hell. According to the Bible, if I kill your wife, you get to kill mine. That's great. Let's start following the bible WORD FOR WORD. Let's see how long people can make it following the bible WORD FOR WORD. because, we all know its possible for someone to be swallowed by a whale, and still live *cough the story of jonah and the whale...*cough*

Razola

22nd September 2003, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by ThePariah
uh...if people act on their homoerotic desires, they are not sinning. they're living a healthy, normal life. The whole concept of sinning is absurd. If I call you a name, that's sinning, therefore I'm going to hell. According to the Bible, if I kill your wife, you get to kill mine. That's great. Let's start following the bible WORD FOR WORD. Let's see how long people can make it following the bible WORD FOR WORD. because, we all know its possible for someone to be swallowed by a whale, and still live *cough the story of jonah and the whale...*cough*

All humans are sinners by DEFAULT, thanks to the "orginal sin" of Adam and Eve. So you're a sinner be you gay, straight, or anything in between. In order to get to Heaven you must admit you are a sinner and repent your sins through Jesus.

And the "eye for an eye" part of the Bible is in the Old Testament, where you see the classic "Wrathful God." If you would flip to the New Testament, Jesus is big on turning the other cheek and not stooping to petty revenge.

Iveechan

22nd September 2003, 04:47 PM

Why do people think they're so high and mighty? We're just hunks of meat like other animals. As long as they're not hurting anyone, physically or emotionally, let them do what they want. Bible's a load of bull imo. And no, being offended by gay marriage isn't exactly being hurt emotionally.

Razola

22nd September 2003, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by Iveechan
Why do people think they're so high and mighty?

Originally posted by Iveechan
Bible's a load of bull imo.

Whee. (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=hypocrite)

Iveechan

22nd September 2003, 05:08 PM

I never said I was high and mighty, I said my opinion. Why are you being mean to me?

KaptainSarcasm

22nd September 2003, 05:30 PM

Bah... While I certainly don't believe in the Bible, I think it's a good story. Like, it's interesting to read. And Jesus was a good guy. A true Marxist. But the thing about the Bible, it's kind of stupid to think of it as this holy text or whatever. Really it's just a good story. I mean, if you're going to hero-worship the Bible, you might as well make a religion out of some other sci-fi story. Like H.G. Wells's The Time Machine. We should make a religion out of that book. That'll teach 'em. ^_^

Razola

22nd September 2003, 05:44 PM

I think "The Cat in the Hat" would be sweet gospel.

And think...all our prayers would rhyme!

The Rusted One

22nd September 2003, 10:11 PM

I was thinking more along the lines of "Snow White and the Seven Dwarves" - I mean, it has an ancient mother goddess, i.e., Snow White, and she has seven consorts (the dwarves). Refering back to many ancient religions, it becomes evident that the focus was placed on the mother goddess as the giver of life and the main deity, and her consorts, which often died and were reborn in the spring, were lesser deities - in this case, though there are seven, their small stature alludes to their relative lack of power compared to the mother goddess' omnipotency. She even came back from the dead.

Yes, I did sit down and work this out into a feasible religion, once.

But on a different note, no Iveechan isn't being a hypocrite - she never said that she was better than anyone, she stated her opinion that the bible is a story, and should be taken as such. The majority of those on this board who believe in god believe that humans, and only humans, have "souls", and that they go to heaven - while the "lesser beasts" just cease existing. That is an elitist attitude. How can Iveechan's words stating that we're no different from the other members of the animal kingdom at all be a "high and mighty" thing to do?

But I still haven't seen anyone give me a reasonable and irrefutable piece of evidence as to why homosexuality is wrong - it makes me curious as to whether there is one.

Razola

22nd September 2003, 10:22 PM

Iveechan stated that someone was being high and mighty, and then proceeded to call someone's reason for being "bull." And it didn't offer any real arugmentation for it either. So, yeah, I find it fairly pompous. This is unlike Kapt. Sarcasm, who at least went in depth to say it was a good book, but not feasible to base a religion on.

Iveechan

22nd September 2003, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by Raz
Iveechan stated that someone was being high and mighty, and then proceeded to call someone's reason for being "bull." And it didn't offer any real arugmentation for it either. So, yeah, I find it fiarly pompous. This is unlike Kapt. Sarcasm, who at least went in depth to say it was a good book, but not feasible to base a religion on.

I said it was my opinion, I wasn't trying to be pompous. Leave me be, you pissed me off enough today in the art forum. Also, TRO, don't mention me anymore even when you are trying to defend me... whenever that happens, someone becomes my enemy.

To me, the bible is fantasy. I admit, I never read it, nor do I care to. But this topic isn't about the bible, it's about same sex marriage. And I say "Go for it, peeps."

Nikku-San

25th September 2003, 02:56 AM

I've read enough in this endless topic to make my head spin... I'm going to try to put in my 2 cents but I can't directly reply to anyone since there are two many people and posts to remember...

First off, I'd like to say I am bisexual, leaning on the gay side. Nothing happened in my life to make me this way, I've always had a thing for guys, even when it was just an admirational thing, like seeing the red power ranger with his shirt off. Then, as I got into my pre-teen years, friends and my cousin and people would show me porno magazines. There were guys and girls and I was focused on the guys, though I tried not to make it noticeable since I knew the whole guys are supposed to like girls rule. I found out what the word gay meant and started using it like anyone else as a synonym for stupid or wierd. But as I started to become a teenager, learned about masturbation and such and my hormones started to kick in, there was definite sexual attraction to other boys. I figured it was just part of becoming a teenager and it would pass, along with the constant horny-ness. But it didn't. As I got older, it started to become more obvious to myself and the sexual attraction slowly became a more normal attraction... I started noticing other things about guys that had nothing to do with sex and even started to have feelings for a few people. I hated it...

For years I protested homosexuality on other message boards and such, but I was slowly losing a fight with myself. It was getting to the point where it was impossible to deny. And worst of all: I had very few feelings toward girls, making it very difficult to socialize with guys in that manner. While most guys talked about a girls boobs and stuff I was actually focused on their personality.... So, there was attraction,. but a more innocent kind only. And so it went like this for a loooong time until finally my whole life reached that point of explosion (parents were going to divorce, I was getting kicked out, found out I had other siblings, chaos) and I finally just said to one of my best online friends.... "What's one thing you could find out about me you'd hate?" They replied "Only that you stopped being a nice, original person and became one of those guys that pushes kids into lockers.... But it's cool if you're gay or something...." And so I told everything. And it felt better...

BlinkWhatevertherestis, believe me, I'd go straight if I could. Screw gay pride, I'm not the type to go strutting around acting like a frickin show girl to get attention. I really don't care about that kind of stuff at all, and I think the nude guys in those parades are screwed up. But how can you make yourself change something like that? I've prayed, I've tried forcing myself to be straight and there's just no point in it. There is nothing wrong with liking other guys, the bible may say that but... Like someone said, God didn't write it himself.

To Vega and that other guy, well... I guess I can't help it that you hate me. But it's not like every gay/bi person is some sicko. And it's not like they all have aids either, I actually think anal sex is gross... But if you really think I'm some sick freak for something I have no control over, then you can kill me. See if I care, I'd be better off that way.

On a last note, I'd just like to say that there are two types of people in this kind of situation that make me sick: The people that have to say that they hate gays/bis and think they are disgusting and evil, and the people who people who launch into a gay rights speech just because someone doesn't fully agree with a certain aspect. Why can't people just find even ground and get along? Just because I'm bi doesn't mean I'm going to be undressing you with my eyes, much less smacking your ***. It just means I might think you're cute. But guess what? There are a ton of girls I've thought looked nice that had no interest in me at all, you don't see me sexually harassing them. And just because you're gay doesn't give you the right to do anything you want, such as parade the streets naked or act obnoxious in public? So why can't you all just shut up and get along? Really, I have enough problems without thinking people would like to see me die just because of something I was born with (and there's no doubt I was born with it).

That's all. If I cursed, sorry, I hate debates and the only reason I posted here was to try to make some middle ground between the two warring sides... Looks like I just added a third party to the war, sorry...

The Rusted One

25th September 2003, 04:29 AM

The problem comes when people start up about how gay and lesbian people are "evil", and what they're doing is "wrong". I believe I fit into the faction of people who argue to the cows come home about gay rights, and how discrimination is wrong - but the fact is, if there wasn't reason to argue for such a thing, there would be no argument. The same arguments apply to racism, sexism, and any and every other form of discrimination - that is, if something is said to the detriment of any socio-economic group, arguments will occur as to why such discrimination shouldn't happen. Until people can learn that discrimination is wrong, discrimination will remain. And until discrimination becomes a thing of the past, the arguments will happen. Nobody should suffer for who they are; and that's what a lot of people are trying to get across.

RedStarWarrior

25th September 2003, 09:53 AM

I believe that homosexuals should have the same rights as everyone else. I mean, come on, they are humans too!

Nikku-San

25th September 2003, 03:57 PM

TRO, I know this will sound like a very negative comment, but discrimination will always exhist to some extent. In my area, (which is in the south) there used to be a lot of racism to black people. We finally got over that, but now a lot of black people have hard feelings towards white people and so I sometimes get treated badly by them. It's a cycle that never-ends, the best you can do is trry to be around good people that can just let the past be the past and have no hard feelings towards anyone. They are rare, but there are people like that.

Just as a side-note: No, I'm not one of them. I try to be friendly to everyone, but if someone wrongs me, I usually hold some grudge, even if I don't show it or act on it. Yeah, I suck.

Razola

25th September 2003, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by The Rusted One
The problem comes when people start up about how gay and lesbian people are "evil", and what they're doing is "wrong". I believe I fit into the faction of people who argue to the cows come home about gay rights, and how discrimination is wrong - but the fact is, if there wasn't reason to argue for such a thing, there would be no argument.

There will ALWAYS be a reason for group A to find themselves superior to group B.

Think it's just religion? Ha. People used Darwin's theories as a reason to justify slavery and afterwards the Jim Crow laws. And then people used 9/11 as a reason to justify hate against muslims. There is no one ideal or theory to blame hatred. It's the people that are flawed, be it poor upbringing or lack of education.

"Hate outlives the hateful." I never thought I see such true words on a Magic card.

The Rusted One

25th September 2003, 08:19 PM

But just because there is discrimination, and there always will be, we should not just sit back and let it occur. That's one of the fundamental parts of this argument - there is discrimination, but there should not be. Just because people say that discrimination will always be a feature of our societies, doesn't mean it should be left to itself. It should always be fought against. The fact that it will be there is no justification for it being left to proceed.

If you want, you can compare terrorism and war to it - these things will probably be around for a very long time, if not forever; should we sit back and let them happen? No. Just because they're a part of who we are as a species and a society does not mean that they are okay.

If you are of the impression that discrimination, because it's part of who we are, is just something that should be accepted, then you must also be fine with that fact that women being paid less for the same jobs men do; you must also be fine with the fact that non-Whites in the US are still looked down upon in many places; you must be fine with the way that many people are hated and prejudiced against because of their religious affiliation. I am not. So what if discrimination is something that will probably always be around? It does not mean it is to be accepted - and I will not accept it.

Razola

25th September 2003, 08:22 PM

I was not excusing discrimination (to clarify) but it sounded like you were putting more blame on theories than people for it.

The best way to end it is to educate. Ignorance is what fuels these people.

The Rusted One

25th September 2003, 08:46 PM

When did I say that people weren't to blame? was it when I said that it wouldn't change until people see the error of their discriminatory attitudes? No - because that's placing the blame squarely on the people.

What I did notice about your argument was that you appeared to be excusing the people because, as you say, there will "ALWAYS be a reason for group A to find themselves superior to group B." That distances the people from the action. You then state that people are flawed, and that's why there is discrimination - this is true to an extent, but the fact is, that blames the condition of the people, rather than the people themselves. You're saying that discrimination is a result of a set of circumstances, and that those who discriminate are victims of those conditions and are, therefore, not to blame entirely. I disagree - people make choices to discriminate. True, they may not have the best awareness of an issue - but it is their responsibility to know what they're talking about. Nobody is stopping them from learning more - and they are, in fact, being encouraged to cease their prejudiced behaviour. And, more often than not, they don't. The people are to blame, not their environs; the outside world does have an impact, but ultimately, everyone is independent, and can make a decision for themselves - if it's the wrong one, and they know it, then they are to blame.

Razola

25th September 2003, 08:52 PM

Yes they can end it, but they tend to be very stubborn people (obviously) and it's best to get them while they're young.

I conclude by saying yes, people are ultimately responsible for their actions BUT it would certainly wouldn't hurt to make sure they know this at a young age.

The Rusted One

25th September 2003, 09:02 PM

With this, I agree - though it doesn't mean that I don't think that adults are any less able to change their behaviour, because they are - sure, it's more ingrained, but the fact remains, if they act a certain way, it's their choice, and they should be accountable for that. If they choose to discriminate, then they are responsible for their own actions - they are to blame. If they listen reasoning as to why they shouldn't discriminate, and change their behaviour, they are making a choice for the better of everyone.

The best time to educate is, indeed, when the person is young - but education should not cease as the person grows older. If anything, it should be stressed more and more to ensure the message is communicated.

Nikku-San

26th September 2003, 04:55 PM

I'm not trying to be negative... But you can never achieve world peace. You can't erase something from human nature... It's pointless. You can, however, make your own decisions and try to lead your friends in the right direction.

Oh, and I'd just like to say, racism is not one sided, so stop pretending it is. Everyone doesn't love white people, that's just ridiculous...

The Rusted One

26th September 2003, 07:31 PM

Sexism isn't one-sided, either - and nor have I ever said it was. When I as writing examples, I was using the more historically recognised forms; if you want to get upset about my examples, you should know that I'm Caucasian, too, so, in effect, I'm badmouthing myself. Except that I'm not doing that at all. I'm not pretending anything - you, on the other hand, seem to believe that, just because I used the more prominent aspects of the issues, I, myself, am being racist. You need to stop jumping to the conclusion that everyone is out to get everyone else - THAT is ridiculous.

And, as for the other point - like I said, people say that discrimination is just something we do - but it should NOT be accepted. Just because you think it's always gong to be there does not mean it should be left alone.

Nikku-San

27th September 2003, 05:14 AM

I never called you racist, I was just pointing that out. Maybe you need to take your own advice about that jumping to conclusions stuff...

*Plays "Why Can't We Be Friends" on stereo to try to make the world get along* There's a solution I like. :D

The Rusted One

27th September 2003, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by Nikku-san
Oh, and I'd just like to say, racism is not one sided, so stop pretending it is. Everyone doesn't love white people, that's just ridiculous...

No, you didn't say much at all, really, looking at your earlier statement. You implied it instead. The fact is, you seem to have taken my words as saying that only white people are racist, and that they are loved by all while hating many. You do state that I'm pretending that racism is a one-sided thing - what other meaning does that have other than what it says? None. And what does it say? That I've taken that view of "loved by all, hater of all". You infer that I view the world as such - this view being a form of racism in itself, in that I see bad of one and good of another.

You weren't innocuously pointing anything out - you assumed something of me and sought to tell me that I was in the wrong - if I had been in the wrong, I would have been open to you telling me, and would have corrected myself; however, you jumped to the conclusion that I was being racist, and there was no reason to. I did not state once that races other than Caucasians were blameless. I did not state once that Caucasians were solely to blame. You took my words, however, as saying such, and inferred that I was discriminating. The point is, you implied I was something I was not; you didn't say the words, but you made clear your meaning.

Green_Pikachu

27th September 2003, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by Nikku-San
*Plays "Why Can't We Be Friends" on stereo to try to make the world get along* There's a solution I like. :D

...if only it were that simple...

Charles Legend

27th September 2003, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by KaptainSarcasm
Bah... While I certainly don't believe in the Bible, I think it's a good story. Like, it's interesting to read. And Jesus was a good guy. A true Marxist. But the thing about the Bible, it's kind of stupid to think of it as this holy text or whatever. Really it's just a good story. I mean, if you're going to hero-worship the Bible, you might as well make a religion out of some other sci-fi story. Like H.G. Wells's The Time Machine. We should make a religion out of that book. That'll teach 'em. ^_^ Ok just to make it clear what most People who are against “Gay Mirage” are making their decisions based on the fact that their was a book written a Gay about gays, I forgot the name of it anyways what the government and the Church are wired about is not the fact that their Gay but what one gay writer had to say about a plan to change the way we see mirage and in the end stamp out mirage all together which could have a profound impact on are life and lives around us because with out marriage their is no way of stopping a man from having more then one wife and not only that but their would be no laws stopping that same woman from being with more then one man at the same time thus you could have an invent number of partners and their would be no one to stop you , so you see Marriage is important, but that dose not mean we should be trying to make gay marriage illegal but instead make sheer that marriage does not get to the point where there can be more then one legal partner.

yeah, basely I agree with it just so long as Marriage dose not get Existent like the dinosaurs well sorta you get the general idea of how important Marriage is but at the same time I don’t think the Government has any say in the People getting married it’s the fact that their trying to protect it so that it won’t go out like the Dinosaurs did about 65 million years ago......................

Oh and uses Rock smash on the rock Angel Blossom is hiding behind....... Boo!

Angel Blossom: Ah Monster!

Me: Oh sorry where you hiding behind that rock I am so sorry I was hunting for a Shuckle...... *gets kicked in the Jews* I tack that as a yes falls on the ground and faints..... X_x

now, about the bible, Ha that have to be one vary smar person to put to gether a book that tells us how to live out are life and be truly happy, of course some of things I find it hard to say god did but I do beleive in god because at some piont in time some one had to set things in motion and make the universe, wether it be some all mighty god or perhapes a giant Ailan bomb from anouther dimtion. oh and the fact that Jusus rose from the dead three days after he was on the cross I can only think of one thing besides an almighty being that could do that and thats Alean tecnolagey, then their is that whole deal with the piller of clouds by day and at night it was fire, I don't know about you but that to me is just not posible for that to hapen, it has to be a gaint UFO Piolet by Alains, then theirs the talk of Diosuors and humans liviving side by side in one of the books most likly Genesis but there has yet to be any realk prof of this.

Err.....

~Ryu

Leon-IH

27th September 2003, 08:11 PM

i am in favor of homosexual marriage for these reasons.

1 - Love isn't about gender, its about feelings the size of hills
2 - it would allow homosexuals to feel less outcasted in society
3 - DOWN WITH PREDJUDICE!! (emphasis)
4 - Religion is entitled to its opinion but why should its minorities control the opinion of the people?!?

The Rusted One

27th September 2003, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by Ryu Slayer X 2.0
Ok just to make it clear what most People who are against “Gay Mirage” are making their decisions based on the fact that their was a book written a Gay about gays, I forgot the name of it anyways what the government and the Church are wired about is not the fact that their Gay but what one gay writer had to say about a plan to change the way we see mirage and in the end stamp out mirage all together which could have a profound impact on are life and lives around us because with out marriage their is no way of stopping a man from having more then one wife and not only that but their would be no laws stopping that same woman from being with more then one man at the same time thus you could have an invent number of partners and their would be no one to stop you , so you see Marriage is important, but that dose not mean we should be trying to make gay marriage illegal but instead make sheer that marriage does not get to the point where there can be more then one legal partner.

Uhhh...you do realise that if gay marriage were allowed, it would follow the same rules as heterosexual marriage, too, right? As in, two people, wishing to marry, and doing so - making their monogamous relationship legal in terms of the church?

Now, you also seem to forget that Mormons frequently marry more than one person - I think only men can have more than one wife, and not vice-versa, but the fact remains, that's legal because it's their religious belief.

Quite apart from that, people all over the world cheat on their partners whether they're married or not - there is nothing illegal about having an affair. It wouldn't change anything if marriage was made more open and allowed, main stream, multiple partners - most people would still have one, much the same as most people have ONE girlfriend or boyfriend at a time before they get married to them.

yeah, basely I agree with it just so long as Marriage dose not get Existent like the dinosaurs well sorta you get the general idea of how important Marriage is but at the same time I don’t think the Government has any say in the People getting married it’s the fact that their trying to protect it so that it won’t go out like the Dinosaurs did about 65 million years ago......................

Um, no - it's that the government currently running the US is intolerant of homosexuality. George W. Bush isn't saying that homosexuality is evil - but he is denying gay and lesbian people the rights to live as freely as straight people don't even need to wonder about receiving.

Now, what difference is it going to make to society if marriage does disappear from our culture? Nothing. A lot of couples never do get married, and they aren't bringing about the fall of society. Marriage, in fact, has become, for the most part, a custom, and serves no other purpose in many cases than to say, "look, they got married."

*gets kicked in the Jews*

What?

now, about the bible, Ha that have to be one vary smar person to put to gether a book that tells us how to live out are life and be truly happy, of course some of things I find it hard to say god did but I do beleive in god because at some piont in time some one had to set things in motion and make the universe, wether it be some all mighty god or perhapes a giant Ailan bomb from anouther dimtion. oh and the fact that Jusus rose from the dead three days after he was on the cross I can only think of one thing besides an almighty being that could do that and thats Alean tecnolagey, then their is that whole deal with the piller of clouds by day and at night it was fire, I don't know about you but that to me is just not posible for that to hapen, it has to be a gaint UFO Piolet by Alains, then theirs the talk of Diosuors and humans liviving side by side in one of the books most likly Genesis but there has yet to be any realk prof of this.

Err.....

~Ryu

Yes, very much "err..."

Almond

28th September 2003, 02:12 PM

OK, did anyone even understand what this Ryu guy was talking about? What's a gay mirage?

Nikku-San

29th September 2003, 12:30 AM

OK, did anyone even understand what this Ryu guy was talking about? What's a gay mirage?

A vision of two guys having sex that you see in the desert? Haha, j/k, I think he meant marriage.

Okay, I'm not going to post here anymore because I've said all I had to say. Peace out.

(Oh, and sorry about that mis-understanding TRO, but I really don't want to debate or argue anymore. ^^;; )

Charles Legend

29th September 2003, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by The Rusted One
Uhhh...you do realise that if gay marriage were allowed, it would follow the same rules as heterosexual marriage, too, right? As in, two people, wishing to marry, and doing so - making their monogamous relationship legal in terms of the church?

Now, you also seem to forget that Mormons frequently marry more than one person - I think only men can have more than one wife, and not vice-versa, but the fact remains, that's legal because it's their religious belief.

Quite apart from that, people all over the world cheat on their partners whether they're married or not - there is nothing illegal about having an affair. It wouldn't change anything if marriage was made more open and allowed, main stream, multiple partners - most people would still have one, much the same as most people have ONE girlfriend or boyfriend at a time before they get married to them.

Um, no - it's that the government currently running the US is intolerant of homosexuality. George W. Bush isn't saying that homosexuality is evil - but he is denying gay and lesbian people the rights to live as freely as straight people don't even need to wonder about receiving.

Now, what difference is it going to make to society if marriage does disappear from our culture? Nothing. A lot of couples never do get married, and they aren't bringing about the fall of society. Marriage, in fact, has become, for the most part, a custom, and serves no other purpose in many cases than to say, "look, they got married."

What?

Yes, very much "err..."

Ok, one when I was Refering to Gay marriage I was not only taking about Gays but also lesbians Almond.

now to the Rusted one, 1: yes 2: LOL, yeah, I know but as I am a Cristian, or rather some what of one, I just don't think a man has any right to have more then one wife. 3: true but it's still a sin in the eyes of god. 4: Acording to the bible marriage is the lawful unin of two people, (usely it's beteen a man and a woman the way God intened it to be.) but now that gay and lesbian want to have equal rights to marriage it would have to chanage. and it may crush the way that a family lives in their daily lives....
5:I was referiny to my man hood when I said
*gets kicked in the Jews* as a joke, ah why Should I have had even bothered none of my Jokes never woked at Planet community and none of my jokes well never work here ether.
6:what I said was that Eather God is some holy Goust or he is a very advaned Alien, that came from another dimtion, with a gaint fution bomb, Shrugs or the Cration of the universe could be as simple as a cimmiloc reation who knows for sheer all we knoe is it happened so lets be thankful of that. 7: and yes I know I can be confusing at times ....... :D

~Ryu

Sach I. Weirdo

29th September 2003, 04:14 PM

Ok my veiw - I think homsexual marriages are not right and I persaonally don't agree with them. I don't think i country should legalize them. This is my veiw. I personally don't care if your gay even though I don't agree with it doesn't mean I hate the person. I hate the major public homosexuals. I don't like going to a pu8blic place and finding 2 guys making ou t or something. that includes kiss and other stuff.

Sacherry 8)

Moonlight Espeon

29th September 2003, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Sach I. Weirdo
Ok my veiw - I think homsexual marriages are not right and I persaonally don't agree with them. I don't think i country should legalize them. This is my veiw. I personally don't care if your gay even though I don't agree with it doesn't mean I hate the person. I hate the major public homosexuals. I don't like going to a pu8blic place and finding 2 guys making ou t or something. that includes kiss and other stuff.

Sacherry 8)

I'd like to specifically quote one sentence:

I don't like going to a public place and finding 2 guys making out or something.

Does it matter? We are all humans, we were all simply cells once. Gender doesn't really exist, if you put it into perspective, because we all started the same but branched off from each other as we grew older and more developed. Also, two guys wouldn't make out in public o_O;;; straight pairs don't do that either, and I doubt they kiss much in public... For goodness sakes, a guy and a girl making out in public would be just as disgusting!

I have no idea why I am arguing about this, since I am straight, but it gives me something to do. 8)

P.S.: It's spelled "view". Not "veiw".

Nikku-San

29th September 2003, 05:41 PM

Well, this is going to sound VERY hypocrital, but I don't like homosexuals as a public either. ^^;; A lot of gay people can be well, obnoxious, especially those in the media. But it's not just TV show homosexuals either. I watched this documentary on PBS where a group of gay people were trying to take over a black community. Yes, take over, they said "we are going to make this an all-gay community". They forced the elderly and sick out of their homes just so they could piss people off with a nude parade. Also, they hung a gay pride flag on a man's flag-pole. When the man tore it down, he was arrested for ethnic prejudice. What the flip?! I really don't like how some gays can get away with anything, it really not fair. Don't they have any pride? Sorry, just thought I'd say that since it REALLY pissed me off.

As for the making out in public, jeesh, just don't look. Nobody likes to watch other people making out. But if someone I was going out with (guy or girl) did me a favor or gave me some good news, I'd kiss them. Nothing gross about that.

As for Aquatic Fury's explanation, okay... We are now human beings and we DO have gender and sexuality. Fact is, no one wants to watch two people go at it in public. (Unless they are into that kinda stuff. o.O)

Moonlight Espeon

29th September 2003, 05:54 PM

Really, the only distinct part between us (males and females) is body parts. The way the bodies function has nothing to do with it, unless you want a baby, which is a whole different thing.

As for your explanation about how those gays did that to the village, not all gays are like that. Those are the people who despise the straight ones because they have different preferences. That's taking gay and straight too far, and I agree with you, that was a very inappropriate thing to do, but it doesn't change the fact that that was only a few people. As they say, you can't judge a book by its cover.

Systematic Revolution

29th September 2003, 08:01 PM

OMG
HI
2
U
KELLY

*Pwnz Kelly*

I am all for same-sex marriage. I think gays and lesbians and bisexuals deserve the right to marry whoever they want regardless of sex. It's just not right to discriminate against a person because of sexual preference. I mean, I don't agree with the views exactly, but I don't think they should be discriminated against. And I dunno of United Methodist says "OMG HOMOSEXUALITY IS WRONG" or not.

~SR

Moonlight Espeon

29th September 2003, 08:07 PM

Uhh... o_O;;; Not exactly what I had in mind for pwning me, but whatever xD

Plus, "gay" doesn't really mean homosexual... somebody obviously just made that up. In the olden days (XD) it meant simply happy, or joyful, and now it's evolved into the description for a homo, an insult (controversially) and still a meaning for joyful. It's interesting sometimes how the meaning of words can slowly waver and get messed up O_o

Not that I'm a huge supporter of gays, because I don't exactly agree with them, but that doesn't change the fact that they are still humans and deserve the same amount of respect as we do.

Systematic Revolution

29th September 2003, 08:10 PM

k NOW I can pwn you. It DOES really mean homosexual.

gay
adj. gay·er, gay·est

1. Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
2. Showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement; merry.
3. Bright or lively, especially in color: a gay, sunny room.
4. Given to social pleasures.
5. Dissolute; licentious.

.

~SR

Moonlight Espeon

29th September 2003, 08:14 PM

Yeah, maybe it's in the dictionary like that. But who knows if it was like that long ago? The book I am currently reading right now, Tom Sawyer, uses the word "gay" as a term for joy and "fagged" for a description of a person who is tired. They might have just added that in when saying "that's so gay" became a new trend.

Nikku-San

29th September 2003, 08:28 PM

I have many old and semi-old dictionaries in my home and I can assure you, gay was not a synonym for homsexual back then. It's a semi-recent (past couple of decades, I guess) thing and it's kinda stupid. But I guess it's better than homo. As for me, I like the term bi, it's short and simple.

The Rusted One

29th September 2003, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by Ryu Slayer X 2.0
now to the Rusted one, 1: yes 2: LOL, yeah, I know but as I am a Cristian, or rather some what of one, I just don't think a man has any right to have more then one wife. 3: true but it's still a sin in the eyes of god. 4: Acording to the bible marriage is the lawful unin of two people, (usely it's beteen a man and a woman the way God intened it to be.) but now that gay and lesbian want to have equal rights to marriage it would have to chanage. and it may crush the way that a family lives in their daily lives....

Does a marriage between a man and a woman that you don't know have any effect on your life, or the lives of anybody else who doesn't know them? No. Why should a marriage between a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, have any different effects?
Families are families - they are not based on the premise that homosexual marriages are disallowed by law.

5:I was referiny to my man hood when I said as a joke, ah why Should I have had even bothered none of my Jokes never woked at Planet community and none of my jokes well never work here ether.

Yeah, no, I got it was a joke - I just didn't find it any sort of humourous.

Nikku - sure, I'm past it now too.

But as to why "gay" now refers, based on context, to homosexuality - the widely held view is that "gay", or more correctly, "G.A.Y", stemmed from "Good As You", a kind of motto or mantra to shout in the faces of those who would discriminate. This may, or may not, be true - but the name was adopted in the 1980s by the homosexual population itself - it was not assigned to them, but chosen by them.

Mancetric_Trainer

30th September 2003, 04:25 AM

I think gay marraige should be legalized ( me and my twin sis being bisexual and all) I don't really see the big deal, it's almost seems strange to me. They act like where not humans are something....we make up a good portion of the population like anyone else. Just like blacks,jews,lations,handicaps, WHATEVER! First white and black people weren't allowed to get married just because one reason, because there diffrent from one another. Some people might think it sounds strange that white and black people couldn't be together back in the days but now it's not that big of a deal, hopefully it's like that for everyone one day.

And Nikku-San that was just plain sterotyping, I don't wanna be rude but I think sterotyping is just ignorant ( not calling you ignorant) so just because of that you think the millions of gay/lesbian/bi people are obnixuos? Yea I guess all black people are ghetto gangsters, all white people are goofy hyper rich people, all arab people are terrorist and so on!!!!!

The funny thing is alot of people know how is it to be gay and not even be gay. And what I mean is as long as there diffrent they know. heavyset,handicap,black,latino,white,jews,musilms, so many things. People talk about other people when there diffrent themsevles. I hate when people sterotype white people as goofy and racist and call them white boy are white girl. Are think all asian people know karate and can't drive. EVERYONE IS DIFFRENT ON THIS PLANET WHEN WILL PEOPLE REALIZE THIS IS A GOOD THING!

Heavyset people are called names like fat and other rude names. Blacks are called names like *igger and worse words.
So are jews.
Mexicans.
Skinny people.
People with big ears.
People with small ears.

Oops im ranting well basically I guess im saying there just diffrent so no big deal, I wonder when people will learn.

Systematic Revolution

30th September 2003, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by Nikku-San
I have many old and semi-old dictionaries in my home and I can assure you, gay was not a synonym for homsexual back then. It's a semi-recent (past couple of decades, I guess) thing and it's kinda stupid. But I guess it's better than homo. As for me, I like the term bi, it's short and simple.

Lol, you know that bi does not equal gay right? Bi is short for Bisexual, meaning you find both sexes attractive. I'm not trying to sound like a know-it-all, but the way you said it sounds like you prefer calling someone bi over calling someone gay, which is technically wrong :x

~SR

Razola

30th September 2003, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by The Rusted One
But as to why "gay" now refers, based on context, to homosexuality - the widely held view is that "gay", or more correctly, "G.A.Y", stemmed from "Good As You", a kind of motto or mantra to shout in the faces of those who would discriminate. This may, or may not, be true - but the name was adopted in the 1980s by the homosexual population itself - it was not assigned to them, but chosen by them.

And the bigots turn that around to stand for "Got Aids Yet?". Such wit, eh?

I wish we could drop the slang for gay and return it to the proud word it once was. But that goes for a lot of words that have been marred by sexual conotations.

The Rusted One

1st October 2003, 02:40 AM

I seem to remember you, Raz, not objecting to the word use of the word "gay" (in concern with the sexual meaning of it) as a derogatory phrase. I certainly don't regard that as returning the word to its once "proud" state of being - and why should it no longer be such a "proud" word when identified with a particular sexual orientation?

Almond

1st October 2003, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by Systematic Revolution
Lol, you know that bi does not equal gay right? Bi is short for Bisexual, meaning you find both sexes attractive. I'm not trying to sound like a know-it-all, but the way you said it sounds like you prefer calling someone bi over calling someone gay, which is technically wrong :x

~SR

Yes, I'm pretty sure she knows the difference. (The only people I know who DON'T know the difference are my father and stepmother --;;) She was just saying she thinks "bi" is a better word than "gay", probably because people don't go around trying to figure out where it came from all the time.

"Good as you" sounds to me like a phrase that was formed from an already-existing word. I doubt that's where the phrase "gay" to mean "homosexual" came from.

Razola

1st October 2003, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by The Rusted One
I seem to remember you, Raz, not objecting to the word use of the word "gay" (in concern with the sexual meaning of it) as a derogatory phrase. I certainly don't regard that as returning the word to its once "proud" state of being - and why should it no longer be such a "proud" word when identified with a particular sexual orientation?

I have no problem with the right for people to use it that way regardless of how it's used. People have freedom of speech, my arguments were not about my personal feelings.

My personal opinion is that I don't like people snickering whenever you try to quote a story, song, or other piece of literature. Other words killed by associations with sex are words like screw or **** (I bet the latter is filtered, right?). Now that I think about it, I suppose it's not a really bad thing at all, just that people need to be more mature.

Royal_Goddess_Tina

1st October 2003, 05:42 PM

In my opinion... OF COURSE Same-Sex marriages should legalized... Marriage is supposed to be a sacred bond of love... Love is not prejudice... So, people shouldn't be prejudice to people who are in love just because they are same-sex... I have no clue if that really made any sense, so let me just re-state my opinion... YES, I think same-sex marriages should be legalized. :yes: I do not know why there is such a big debate over this... It's obvious what the answer should be.... YES! It's called... Human Rights... It's the human's right to chose their mate... lol. :P

The Rusted One

2nd October 2003, 04:30 AM

Originally posted by Raz
I have no problem with the right for people to use it that way regardless of how it's used. People have freedom of speech, my arguments were not about my personal feelings.

My personal opinion is that I don't like people snickering whenever you try to quote a story, song, or other piece of literature. Other words killed by associations with sex are words like screw or **** (I bet the latter is filtered, right?). Now that I think about it, I suppose it's not a really bad thing at all, just that people need to be more mature.

I can see your point; but yes, it's more that people need to exercise more maturity than the words themselves having the sexual reference to them, if there is any mature reason for the association, needing to be changed.

Agent Elrond

2nd October 2003, 11:00 PM

All I can say at the moment is that Blinky-numberperson should go read The Merlin Conspiracy. What with all his/her going on about praying and repenting sins and that stuff.

Myself, I think same sax marraige should definitely be allowed, I mean, if opposite sax marraige is legal, so should same sex marraige, like two sides of a coin.

I have no problem with gays/lesbians/bisexuals/transexuals/crossdressers and all that other stuff. That's who you are, and I respect that.

I have no problem with people who think homosexuality is weird, or unnatural, that's you point of view, and you're welcome to it.

I do have problems with people who would be unconditionally nasty to other people based on some fundemental aspect of their nature, it's just not nice, and I don't like mean people.

Quite honestly I think this topic has been done to death, with the conclusion that there will never be peace, no one will ever agree on anything.

"Life is suffering, it is hard, the world is cursed. And yet we still find reasons to keep on living..."

--- Osa from Princess Mononoke

(Oh yes, off topic note here, Raz's strange speach in his earlier posts was do to the fact that it was Talk Like A Pirate Day, funny no one realized this. Good for you Raz for remembering, I completely forgot. :( )

Tallest_Los

3rd October 2003, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by Bleeding Blue
See I dont think he should get flamed. I agree with him that I believe its totally wrong. That's my oppinion. I think life was made a certain way and that wasnt part of it. Im not religous. I dont go to church. I didnt read anything saying it was a "sin." Its sort of like stick a fork in a toaster.

And regarding to another post about your best friend being gay, I wouldnt be his friend. The very thought actually make me sick. I dont know anyone that is gay and Im glad to say that

It shouldnt be legalized and thats that. No one should be flamed for how they think. its how the gay people think when they make their desicion for their sexuallity. Still I think its wrong.

If you would completley disregard and abandon your best friend if he/she told you they were gay, you are an evil, heartless person, and you don't know the meaning of the word friendship.

"I think life was made a certain way and that wasn't part of it"

Okay...if live wasn't MADE that way, then how did homosexuality appear? Magic? You idiot. Homosexuality is natural. It has existed since sexuality has. It's a part of the world. ONE out of every TEN people is gay. When you go outside next, one out of every ten people you see will be gay. You'll see like 40 gay people every day. But it's not part of the natural word? No? Gah.

Iveechan

3rd October 2003, 08:20 PM

Wearing clothes isn't natural. Eating twinkies isn't natural. Driving cars that harm the environment isn't natural. So why are these things accepted yet people are still so hard-headed about homosexuality? Do people not realize you are born that way, and being homophobic is the same as being a racist? Gay and bi folks aren't harming you, so what the flub is the big deal? Will gay marriage destroy the world? Hell no.

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Mancetric_Trainer

6th October 2003, 06:42 PM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=97&ncid=97&e=5&u=/hsn/20031006/hl_hsn/startlingstudysayspeoplemaybeborngay

Interesting.

The Rusted One

6th October 2003, 08:50 PM

Interesting, yes. While it's still up to individual interpretation, at least now there's some sort of evidence for what many members of the board have accepted already - that homosexuality is something someone is born with, not learns.

I find it interesting that the PPI in lesbian women and gay men are approximately the same - 33-33%, far different (though the article downplays the difference between straight and gay men in terms of this) from their heterosexual counterparts. This would seem to indicate, as the study states, that lesbian women are more "masculine" and gay men more "feminine", meeting at what seems an almost definite figure; this would suggest the same sort of causes as to why they are homosexual, such as a universal condition before birth or genetics themselves. I'd like to see how those here who believe homosexuality to be a learned characteristic explain this away, and provide the however-many different circumstances that would cause a non-learned behaviour to be changed in such a way that it gives results very close to each other across the board (i.e., 32-33%).

RaZoR LeAf

7th October 2003, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Mancetric_Trainer
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=97&ncid=97&e=5&u=/hsn/20031006/hl_hsn/startlingstudysayspeoplemaybeborngay

Interesting.

Funny, when compared with recent news that says therapy can "cure" gay people. I haven't read the story but apparently of a number of gay people put into said therapy, 70% or so males and 95% females have "gone straight". Bullshiz if you ask me.

Interesteing fact, did you know that the reason lesbianism isn't frowned upon as much as male homosexualism, is because Queen Victoria wouldn't accepted it existed. And so it never became a crime.

Almond

7th October 2003, 06:31 PM

I haven't read the story but apparently of a number of gay people put into said therapy, 70% or so males and 95% females have "gone straight".

And 95% or so of them either (A) weren't gay but bisexual or (B) wind up switching back to being gay within five years. The other 5% generally end up committing suicide.

I'm bisexual. If I so desired, I could "go straight" - suppress my feelings for the same gender (well, I'm also trans so it's a bit more complicated, but still) and pretend to be a normal, straight female. That doesn't mean that I would be one, just that I would only be expressing my feelings for men.

The Muffin Man

7th October 2003, 07:04 PM

Notice Sacherrys wording? Two-GUYS kissing.

It's apparent that in the world today, if a gay man went out with his boyfriend and made out with him, people would be disgusted. They'd yell insults and tell him to go away.

Yet if a girl and her girlfriend made out, it'd be "hot", and those same homophobes would crowd around to see it...

It's sick, really.

The Rusted One

8th October 2003, 01:55 AM

I also find that hard to grasp; that, and why, exactly, lesbian sexual activity is so "hot(t)". I've never really found it all that attractive, really - I mean, each to his or her own with what he/she finds attractive (in terms of guys finding lesbian sex exciting, etc.), but I can't see what makes it special when it's two women. And yes, why is it that two gay men, in the same situation, would not be seen as attractive, but obscene and weird?

Mancetric_Trainer

8th October 2003, 08:34 PM

It basically shows how ignorant humans can be. People think how the media, etc what's them to think. Lesbians is still homosexuality. A guy would call a guy a homo for not liking homo's. If you were to ask the person why is it ok for girls and not guys they would come up with a typical dumb answers like, cause it's hot and guys are sick...when it's basically the same thing. Im still happy for lesbians, they can hold hand's in public, etc. I do have to say that I am jealous a little, kidna no fair! Maybe guys will be able to do it soon?

Razola

8th October 2003, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by The Rusted One
I also find that hard to grasp; that, and why, exactly, lesbian sexual activity is so "hot(t)". I've never really found it all that attractive, really - I mean, each to his or her own with what he/she finds attractive (in terms of guys finding lesbian sex exciting, etc.), but I can't see what makes it special when it's two women. And yes, why is it that two gay men, in the same situation, would not be seen as attractive, but obscene and weird?

Simple math.

One woman is great, two is better. Two having sex is awesome. Now, that's only for pornographic purposes. Obviously a man is going to want a heterosexual woman to go to bed with.

Like you said, whatever floats your boat.

Originally posted by the person above me
It basically shows how ignorant humans can be. People think how the media, etc what's them to think. Lesbians is still homosexuality. A guy would call a guy a homo for not liking homo's. If you were to ask the person why is it ok for girls and not guys they would come up with a typical dumb answers like, cause it's hot and guys are sick...when it's basically the same thing. Im still happy for lesbians, they can hold hand's in public, etc. I do have to say that I am jealous a little, kidna no fair! Maybe guys will be able to do it soon?

You're not thinking of the media's real power. The media has no control over what you think (or else people would be a lot more knowing of world events). It controls what we think about. Why do you think we're talking about this thread? If news never covered all the gay rights issues over the summer, there'd be little discussion.

Women don't get as much slack as you think. And homosexuals are quickly gaining acceptance...at least at a faster rate than in past years...a rate I dislike. I'd go in depth, but I'd rather see how many irrate flies I can attract with that opinion's honey.