RMT~The Gray Marauders

[Super Moo]

Cloyster@Leftovers
~Spikes
~Surf
~Rapid Spin
~Rest
Instead of putting down spikes and blowing up, I prefer to have a set with a little more survivability. This thing usually has the upper hand in many spike battles.

Heracross@Leftovers
~Curse
~Megahorn
~Earthquake
~Rest
Once any flying support is taken out, this thing can come in and more than likely destroy anything in its path.

Tyranitar@Leftovers
~Crunch
~Earthquake
~Rock Slide
~Fire Blast
I don't know why, but Tyranitar is getting quite uncommon. This thing works great with Heracross, as they cover each others weaknesses almost perfectly. I'm also surprised at how many people leave Skarmory out against this thing. :rolleyes:

Blissey@Leftovers
~Heal Bell
~Ice Beam
~Light Screen
~Softboiled
Standard egg. I did have Miltank in its place, but I needed something that could defend against Raikou, as I have no ground support.

Skarmory@None
~Drill Peck
~Theif
~Whirlwind
~Rest
Not much to say here. Basic pseudo-hazer, and anti-ClubWak.

Electabuzz@Leftovers
~Thunder Bolt
~Ice Punch
~Rest
~Sleep Talk/Cross Chop
Meh, i'll take Buzz over Raikou anyday, mainly beause of its much bigger movepool. This thing can defend really well against Zapdos too, which has become really useful.(Zapdos+Spikes>Tyranitar) I'm not sure whether I need CC or not, although it has been really useful for taking out Snorlax.

The only problem i've really had with this team is Fire Blast Machamp, but they arn't very common at all. I also have no ground support, but it hasn't been a problem.

[Sir Chris]

Well, if I were to rate your team name I would give it a 0... oh! the actual team itself? right... I knew that..

Cloyster- you make me so very sad, you really do. Why don't you want to make it go boom? I have always thought rest on cloyster is stupid. Go explosion and get rid of rapid spin for ice beam, in the opposite order of course. Also, it doesn't really have an upper hand, both spikes and rapid spin are the same pp, so its even(for both pokemon, that is, not the same pp when compared to each other)

Heracross- boo, why must people start using my set so I can't yell about heracross? yes, very nice. ALTHOUGH QUICK CLAW IS COOL

Tyranitar- yeah, use the set and I also agree with your notes.

blissey- the standard egg indeed

skarmory- bah, use curse if anything, but really, I don't suggest using skarmory too much, it isn't that good. It is HIGHLY over rated IMO. Although, I havde nothing at the moment to offer as replacement...

Electabuzz- finally a pokemon I disagree with, PRAISE THE.... Pokegods!~

I would use the following set, a set some guy by the name of Sandslashman thought this up or at the very least used it enough for me to think it was good

Electabuzz@leftovers
fire punch
ice punch
t-bolt
cross chop

yup. covers forry, scizor, grounds, blisseys, t-bolt, yup yup yup


good times. although that may be one of my worse rates eve,r, bastard, using sets I use to begin with..;.;

~ Chris

[Green_Pikachu]

rest is worthless on cloy. it will pretty much never get a legitimate shot to rest. you should have explosion, but then you'd have to drop rapid spin too, cause explosion/rs is illegal on the same cloy.

skarm is losing popularity apparently. i might have to get a new pokemon on my team. :/

dunno much about buzz, but that set doesn't look too cool, sorry.

everything else is fine. the team isnt THAT bad...

[Pokefan Stock]

Chris: I don't think anyone can really claim to have invented the curse heracross ;[

Cloyster: Great, best cloyster set there is, despite what some people say...

Heracross: Fine, although I like sleep talk/hp fighting > earthquake.

Tyranitar: hmm I really think this should have rest. and mebbe d-punch is an option ;x

Blissey: I don't know why people still use ice beam ;x I prefer growl

Skarmory: meh

Electabuzz: Excellent, note that thunderbolt + cross chop + stalk might work due to CC's low pp and your team can easily own grounds...

Overall: This team is very well thought-out. Its the best team i've seen here =/ I give it 93%

[Machiney_Galata-66]

Cloyster
cloyster starters are not always really good, try buzz as your starter
moveset: Icy Wind, Surf, Spikes, Explosion (of course, cuz it has not a good staying power cuz of the low HP)
item: lefties

Heracross
it's nice, I think it was also a standard set, but now, I am sure that the Slp Talk set is more efficient.
moveset: Megahorn, Hidden Power[Fighting], Rest, Sleep Talk
Item: Scope lens

Tyranitar
also nice and standard. but i never use only attackin movesets
Moveset: Curse, Roar, Earthquake, Rock Slide
somehow, i dont know why but this set works amazingly good with nidoking and suicune
Item: Leftovers

Blissey
again standard moves, again useful
use flamethrower instead of ice beam, cuz it has more pp

Skarmory
useful moves, but only useful against marowaks, go with toxic-protect, instead of thief and rest
item: lefites

Electabuzz
Cross Chop is a must on buzz, thats the only reason, why u use buzz instead of raikou. thunderbolt. fire punch. lightscreen/reflect for p-passing or rest, cuz you have a beller.

all overall:
your team is based on blissey, and like you said, champ is your problem, champ with light screen back up > you:yes:
counterlax > you
even if they are not common, your team is still weak against them.

[Green_Pikachu]

it seems that every team that does not contain suicune/slowbro has a glaring machamp weakness. mine does. :yes:

[Pokefan Stock]

Heracross isn't weak too machamp, and skarmory > machamp unless it has FB.

[Green_Pikachu]

Originally posted by Pokefan Stock
unless it has FB.


95% of machamps HAVE fire blast. and cross chop owns skarm too. ;[

not to mention, Heracross isn't THAT good against machamp either.

[Pokefan Stock]

there is no way heracross is going to die against machamp unless you are an idiot.

[Green_Pikachu]

Originally posted by Pokefan Stock
there is no way heracross is going to die against machamp unless you are an idiot.

not necessarily. machamp can defeat a heracross in the hands of a good trainer.

[Mr.E]

I don't consider myself very weak against Machamp and I don't have said Slowbro/Gaycune. X(

Reflect over Rest on Cloyster. It's enough of a physical tank, but it can't Rest. Can't take special atatcks except Ice Beam for crap. Snorlax will Curse up, Marowak 2HKOs, etc... It doesn't tank physical hits very well when it can't fight back anyway. AND ICE BEAM INSTEAD OR SURF (Or Rest, instead of Reflect) PLEASE. I DO NOT CONDONE THE PASSING UP OF A STABBED ICE BEAM.

Mint, or Miracle, on that Skarm? ;( Thief Skarms are so nubby. =[ At least when you do it specifically for Marowak. Cloyster and Heracross are already there and they are two of the better counters against Marowak in general anyway.

KOOKEE KOOKEE

[Green_Pikachu]

Originally posted by Mystery
AND ICE BEAM INSTEAD OR SURF (Or Rest, instead of Reflect) PLEASE. I DO NOT CONDONE THE PASSING UP OF A STABBED ICE BEAM.

at least someone agrees with me that ice beam > surf on cloyster.

[Pokefan Stock]

Originally posted by ThePariah
not necessarily. machamp can defeat a heracross in the hands of a good trainer.

yes. if he is facing an idiot.

mre: you are a damn fool if you think cloyster can't rest. It's a great counter for double edge/rest/eq/fb snorlax. And hell, why don't we try *not* sending in cloyster into special attacks? no phsyical attacker other than marowak/rhydon can 3hko cloyster I think..

[Green_Pikachu]

im sure hera could. plus, rest is worthless on cloyster. the name of the game isnt, "lets waste a slot on cloyster for rest." its lets drop spikes, play the switch game, absorb some physical blows, get a frz with ice beam, do some more crazy ****, and then blow up. its basically a decoy. it just isnt worth it to use rest on him.

[Pokefan Stock]

The name of the game is to use the most effective sets. [Can't argue with that] and Surf & spikes is obvious, rest is great for physical powerhouses, rapid spin rids you of spikes.

Now please stop trying to convince this guy to use stupid things on his team and that his team is weak to things it isn't.

[Green_Pikachu]

Originally posted by Pokefan Stock
The name of the game is to use the most effective sets. [Can't argue with that] and Surf & spikes is obvious, rest is great for physical powerhouses, rapid spin rids you of spikes.

Now please stop trying to convince this guy to use stupid things on his team and that his team is weak to things it isn't.

so, you're suggesting a moveset of:

surf
spikes
rapid spin
rest

wow, what a great set.

listen dude, to be quite honest, ive had enough of you and your cocky attitude. you're not as good as you think. yeah, it's important to be original, but rest on cloyster? please. get on gsbot, and ill show you how good of a cloyster you have there.

[Pokefan Stock]

Originally posted by ThePariah
so, you're suggesting a moveset of:

surf
spikes
rapid spin
rest



Wow, it took you that long to realise that? Strangely enough, you gave no reason why it wasn't so good, whilst I have given you reason after reason after reason.



listen dude, to be quite honest, ive had enough of you and your cocky attitude. you're not as good as you think.
I really think the same about you.
yeah, it's important to be original, but rest on cloyster? please.
Its actually a pretty standard set.
get on gsbot, and ill show you how good of a cloyster you have there.
I would -LOVE- to get on GSbot, but my mIRC isn't working. I use to be a GSbot regular, actually. Get on netbattle at a suitable time. I'll use one of my teams with that cloyster for you.

[Green_Pikachu]

lol, netbattle. no thanks, i don't want to waste my time downloading that piece of [diglett]. ;(

[Pokefan Stock]

lol, ok. meh, I dare not take offense to your ignorance, but how about we battle when Pokemon Competitor comes out :P

It might be a while [if articuno is still working on it o_O] but i'll be looking forward to it ;)

[NumberOneSquirtle]

OMJEE RATE MY TEAM NOW YOU SILLY NUBS!!!:!:!!! :


tauros @leftovers
double edge
earthquake
rest
sleep talk

slowbro @leftovers
surf
thunder wave
counter
fire blast

gengar @leftovers
thunder
giga drain
explosion
hypnosis

lanturn @leftovers
thunder wave
confuse ray
surf
thunder(bolt)

piloswine @leftovers
earthquake
curse
whirlwind
blizzard

charizard @leftovers
swords dance
earthquake
fire blast
hyper beam

i am stupid. clearly.

[Mr.E]

OH NOS... Anyway, shut up and go away. ;(

And why is Rest good? We already know it can't take special attacks. Physically...

Machamp? Don't even have to say anything.
Snorlax? Most Snorlax aren't the type of Snorlax you mentioned. Even then, Fire Blast 3HKOs Cloyster so you're wrong anyway. Curselax... no, you don't want to Rest there.
Marowak? Sorry, Marowak 3HKOs, or 2HKOs with EQ. You can't Rest that off.
Tyranitar? Sorry, Cloyster's weak against Rock. Oops, Tyranitar also has usable special attacks and the SpA to back them up.
Heracross? Hmm, we get one finally. But only if it doesn't have Curse. CH or very high on the RND scale could score a KO but that could take up a lot of PP without early luck.

And, well, there's not many others that are really all that common. Cloyster does decently awake, when it can scare off the opponent. Asleep, it's nothing but cannon fodder since something like Marowak isn't going to care about something that isn't moving.

And you still recommended Surf instead of Ice Beam. WHY? =|

[Pokefan Stock]

Machamp: Would you send in an explosion cloyster to a machamp? no. Saying machamp was just stupid.

Snorlax: If people are using the double edge/earthquake/fire blast/rest snorlax, cloyster can basically stall it out. Fire blast only has 5-8 pp and imperfect accuracy, and people can stall it out w/ cloyster. Withdraw it if it gets too weak, but explosion cloyster is going to get owned so bady by snorlax ;[ Please don't argue that rest cloyster cant stall out snorlax... i really can't be bothered going into detail.

Marowak: the idea is too surf marowak. It 3hkos every water and it will 3hko your cloyster even faster than mine.

Tyranitar: Sending cloyster into tyranitar is sooo stupid ;/

Heracross: He *does* have a skarm in his team o_O

In future, don't waste my time. if you want to send in your super cool explosion cloysters into tyranitar/machamp/heracross thats your desicsion ;(

Edit: I don't really care if you use ice beam/surf but I prefer surf for more pp. Although I agree that ice beam would work betta with explosion ;p

[Green_Pikachu]

i remember this argument. saying cloyster can rest is like saying kazam can recover in r/s. sure, maybe once in a blue moon he can successfully pull it off, but more times than not, it just isn't gonna work out. mr.e and i win. gg.

[Pokefan Stock]

Congrats, you win the stupid nub who won't listen to other's arguments and proclaims himself the winner award.

The difference between our arguments is that I give reasons and examples whilst you just keep giving your ignorant assumptions. It was different with MrE, atleast he actually told me *why* explosion cloyster was good. Lol, you really suck dude ;(

btw... does RS alakazam have some 450 defense?

[GoldDraconian]

Machamp: Would you send in an explosion cloyster to a machamp? no. Saying machamp was just stupid.

Machamp would come in versus a sleeping Cloyster fine. If it comes in versus an Exploding one, it gets killed in the Explosion.

Snorlax: If people are using the double edge/earthquake/fire blast/rest snorlax

Too bad they don't, eh? Most people aren't that dumb. Rest/Stalk/Quake/DE, Rest/Curse/Quake or Blast/DE, Selfdestruct/Blast/DE/Quake, Rest/Belly Drum/Fire Blast or Earthquake/DE are pretty much your options. Only Stalklax has trouble killing Rest Cloyster, but Cloyster can't touch it either. They stall each other until one runs out of PP or patience. Explosion Cloyster is better against EACH OTHER SNORLAX because Explosion can actually damage them, and Resting against them is just a waste. You're either giving them time to power up or time to simply kill Cloyster unharrassed.

cloyster can basically stall it out.

Funny how even the crappy Snorlax set you pulled out can potentially Blast Cloyster to death.

Fire blast only has 5-8 pp and imperfect accuracy, and people can stall it out w/ cloyster.

Accuracy isn't that bad, really. Low PP doesn't make much difference unless you get really bad accuracy luck.

Withdraw it if it gets too weak, but explosion cloyster is going to get owned so bady by snorlax ;[

This is hilarious. Exployster will probably die versus Snorlax, but only because it Explodes itself and does 452-532 to 'lax. I'd rather do a boatload of damage to Snorlax than have a nearly-dead Cloyster still around, possibly asleep.

Please don't argue that rest cloyster cant stall out snorlax... i really can't be bothered going into detail.

Reduced to asking your opponents not to argue because you can't win?

Please do go into detail, because I fail to see how Rest Cloyster does anything to Snorlax other than possibly annoy it briefly.

Marowak: the idea is too surf marowak. It 3hkos every water and it will 3hko your cloyster even faster than mine.

Ice Beam does the same thing as Surf to Marowak except with a chance to freeze. Rest or not, Marowak will destroy Cloyster, and Explosion can actually be useful.

Tyranitar: Sending cloyster into tyranitar is sooo stupid ;/

Tyranitar is the ONLY reason that Surf over Ice Beam could be considered. It's not a good one.

The reason Mystery brought Tyranitar up is presumably because he's yet another common physical attacker that Rest Cloyster can't stall against.

Heracross: He *does* have a skarm in his team o_O

...which is irrelevant. The point is that Rester (Rest+Cloyster doesn't flow into a very good shortened form :[) can't necessarily do anything about it.

In future, don't waste my time. if you want to send in your super cool explosion cloysters into tyranitar/machamp/heracross thats your desicsion ;(

If you use Rest, it'll be the physical attackers who switch in against YOU. Oops. Explosion Cloyster can at least deal with non-Rock physical attackers in a kamikaze attack. I'd rather kill the physical attacker and be done with him than try (and fail) to stall it for a while, thanks.

Edit: I don't really care if you use ice beam/surf but I prefer surf for more pp. Although I agree that ice beam would work betta with explosion ;p

Ice Beam should work better, if anything, on a Resting Cloyster because theoretically, the improved endurance would give a better chance to freeze. In practice, Rest Cloy doesn't gain much endurance if any (and it loses usefulness overall), so the PP is irrelevant. Ice Beam is better solely because of the freeze chance here. Typewise, it's as good as Surf or better 9 times out of 10 (the remaining one time is against Tyranitar... not that it makes a difference there, since Tyr just owns you).

Congrats, you win the stupid nub who won't listen to other's arguments and proclaims himself the winner award.

That would've worked better if you didn't qualify for the same award. At least GP is right, even though his arguments haven't been great.

The difference between our arguments is that I give reasons and examples whilst you just keep giving your ignorant assumptions. It was different with MrE, atleast he actually told me *why* explosion cloyster was good. Lol, you really suck dude ;(

I'd like to note that you made some pretty retarded arguments. Fire Blast/Earthquake/DE/Rest Snorlax? What kind of idiot tries to pull that? Who loses- the guy who's right but doesn't argue the point well, or the guy who argues better but still can't do that well because he's wrong?

BONUS: I'll also rate NOS's team omg wtf!!!11111

tauros @leftovers
double edge
earthquake
rest
sleep talk

slowbro @leftovers
surf
thunder wave
counter
fire blast

gengar @leftovers
thunder
giga drain
explosion
hypnosis

lanturn @leftovers
thunder wave
confuse ray
surf
thunder(bolt)

piloswine @leftovers
earthquake
curse
whirlwind
blizzard

charizard @leftovers
swords dance
earthquake
fire blast
hyper beam

Charizard should be Belly Drum/Fire Blast/Earthquake/Rock Slide, I think. Past that, the only thing I see that I think is worth mentioning is your 3x Grass weakness (oh nos!!). Actually, come to think of it, it wasn't worth mentionining. My bad.

[Green_Pikachu]

my point is moot because its so obvious. why even try to argue it? i hope my sneak4 team draws you in round 1, so we can show the netbattlers just how good their "best" are. MrE made great points, and GD made great points, and I could have made the same great points if I felt like it. I enjoy how you call me a newbie, even though we've never battled, and my gsc knowledge is superior to yours. you judge me by what you've heard, and not what you've seen, which is a rash judgment in itself. next time you want to insult me, try a little harder and be a little more original.

ps: lol, rest on cloyster...

[MetalScyther]

Pokefan_Stock isn't a newbie in any way. While I agree that most netbattlers do suck, Stock doesn't. I do agree with most people here that explosion is a better choice though, for all of the reasons that GD just pointed out.

In any case, I fail (at life?) to see how Fireblast, Earthquake, Double-Edge, and Rest is as terrible as you make it out to be. IMO, that is snorlax's best set. If I use curse I get people bitching at me and I'm limiting my type-coverage, whereas with double-edge's insane power with spikes support, the damage is outstanding with no turns required for set-up. Infact, I'd probably rather use a bellydrum snorlax before using a cursing one.

Edit: And after reading most of the posts in this topic, I can safely say that GP's post are bullshit. I usually get along with you pretty well dude, but you just have to act like an asshole to anyone that doesn't agree with you.

GP: and I could have made the same great points if I felt like it

I doubt it. From what I've seen you're pretty terrible at arguing; your main points are "lol shut up u fag" and "come battle me and i show you."

you judge me by what you've heard, and not what you've seen, which is a rash judgment in itself.

Hypocrite. You just called Pokefan_Stock a newbie. Have you ever seen him battle? At all? He doesn't use GSBot much from what I've seen. You lose by default for being a hypocrite. Get out.

As for your statement, what is there to see? You very rarely go beyond the first 5 turns of a battle.

next time you want to insult me, try a little harder and be a little more original.

And yours were? "nub?" Okay. I know for a fact that there are better insults/choices of words to use when attempting to insult someone, but you didn't either.

I hate to break it to you, but you aren't allowed talking down to people. When I say that, I can state that about 95% of the people on the GSBot community would agree with me. No one respects you anymore. Everyone stopped respecting you when you stopped respecting the game.

If you haven't noticed, you are a joke. Even the newer battlers still say that someone "GP'd the game." It's pretty sad when people who have no/distant memories of you are still making comments about it, years later.

Next time before attempting to argue, don't be so condescending.

[GoldDraconian]

In any case, I fail (at life?) to see how Fireblast, Earthquake, Double-Edge, and Rest is as terrible as you make it out to be. IMO, that is snorlax's best set. If I use curse I get people bitching at me and I'm limiting my type-coverage, whereas with double-edge's insane power with spikes support, the damage is outstanding with no turns required for set-up. Infact, I'd probably rather use a bellydrum snorlax before using a cursing one.

It would be fine if there weren't better options open. Bellylax goes nuts with 1-2 turns of setup (depending on how suicidal you're willing to be), Curselax is a virtual win unless they have the kind of counter that applies to your version (Skarmory for Quaking ones, Missy/Rock for Blasting ones) or they pack both kinds, Stalklax can sit around forever firing off attacks (though it lacks Fire), Starterlax has type coverage coupled with Selfdestruct. My preferred Snorlax is the starter variety, and I've only very rarely wished I had Rest over Selfdestruct. Rest/Blast/Quake/DE is, in my opinion, suboptimal.

EDIT: And uncommon, which is the part that's most relevant to my argument, but that's obvious.

[Pokefan Stock]

Machamp would come in versus a sleeping Cloyster fine. If it comes in versus an Exploding one, it gets killed in the Explosion.

Why would you do that when you could just switch in the machamp counter and not lose your steelix ( etc.) counter + spiker + rapid spinner?

Too bad they don't, eh? Most people aren't that dumb. Rest/Stalk/Quake/DE, Rest/Curse/Quake or Blast/DE, Selfdestruct/Blast/DE/Quake, Rest/Belly Drum/Fire Blast or Earthquake/DE are pretty much your options. Only Stalklax has trouble killing Rest Cloyster, but Cloyster can't touch it either. They stall each other until one runs out of PP or patience. Explosion Cloyster is better against EACH OTHER SNORLAX because Explosion can actually damage them, and Resting against them is just a waste. You're either giving them time to power up or time to simply kill Cloyster unharrassed.

I thought fire blast/double edge/earthquake (rofl @ sleep talking snorlax) was GSbot snorlax standard. Ok lets see, in one of my teams I have misdreavus/cloyster/skarmory. Cloyster can stall out the snorlax I thought was standard and does take care of the de/eq/st/rest snorlax, as for curse, I dont see how exploding on a cursed snorlax will do any good. Belly drum... yeah cloyster *could* explode but it all depends if your playing someone "that dumb."



This is hilarious. Exployster will probably die versus Snorlax, but only because it Explodes itself and does 452-532 to 'lax. I'd rather do a boatload of damage to Snorlax than have a nearly-dead Cloyster still around, possibly asleep.

err... do you know what rest does? It restores ones health. snorlax can keep doing damage on the switch to cloyster and then switching out to something that your opponent considers least important. Snorlax switches out, cloyster explodes! your without cloyster and snorlax is still alive. How "dumb" are you?

Reduced to asking your opponents not to argue because you can't win?

Actually it was a case of "my point is moot because its so obvious. why even try to argue it?"

In theory FB snorlax > cloyster. Although, Snorlax has 8 fire blasts. it needs 3 in a row to kill cloyster. In addition to fire blasts accuracy lets say we, oh I don't know, let something else take the fire blast.

I guess in the end it depends what your team is and if you are in the position to sacrifice cloyster. I think its a pretty stupid idea, because you will just lose your spikes to a rapid spinner.nearly every good team on netbattle had rapid spinner, I guess its different on GSbot.

[PinsirMaster]

Cloyster@leftovers
Surf
Spikes
Rapid Spin
Rest

IS THE OWNAGE.

Case closed.

:D

[GoldDraconian]

Cloyster@leftovers
Surf
Spikes
Rapid Spin
Rest

IS THE OWNAGE.

Case closed.

I might be more inclined to listen to you if you made arguments and had a sig that fit on the page properly.

Why would you do that when you could just switch in the machamp counter and not lose your steelix ( etc.) counter + spiker + rapid spinner?

I'd like you to name a Machamp counter that can switch in against 'champ every time it comes out, because I really can't think of any. Dead Machamps don't go around killing Skarmories and similar things any more.

I thought fire blast/double edge/earthquake (rofl @ sleep talking snorlax) was GSbot snorlax standard.

That's funny, I've never seen one played in my life.

Ok lets see, in one of my teams I have misdreavus/cloyster/skarmory. Cloyster can stall out the snorlax I thought was standard and does take care of the de/eq/st/rest snorlax

I don't see the relevance of mentioning Missy and Skarmory being present on your team. With those two around, however, Snorlax really shouldn't be an issue.

as for curse, I dont see how exploding on a cursed snorlax will do any good.

You'll kill it or come close if you explode on an uncursed one. The idea is to blow up first, since you're faster.

Belly drum... yeah cloyster *could* explode but it all depends if your playing someone "that dumb."

Dumb enough to use a Bellylax, or dumb enough not to switch out at 50%? You could bring Skarm in to absorb the Explosion, but you're still stuck with a Snorlax at half health.


err... do you know what rest does? It restores ones health.

It might be better if Cloyster had any health to restore. Note that I can use bold to be annoying, too.

snorlax can keep doing damage on the switch to cloyster and then switching out to something that your opponent considers least important. Snorlax switches out, cloyster explodes! your without cloyster and snorlax is still alive. How "dumb" are you?

You're assuming that the Cloyster user is an idiot. If you're going to argue a point, the idea is to assume that people aren't as dumb as an empty asparagus can. If we say that the Explosion user is brain-dead and the Rest user isn't, then yeah, the Rest user will probably be more successful! By Jove, you're a genius! Now let's get back to reality; chances are good that if anyone is an idiot, it's the one using Rest.

In theory FB snorlax > cloyster. Although, Snorlax has 8 fire blasts. it needs 3 in a row to kill cloyster. In addition to fire blasts accuracy lets say we, oh I don't know, let something else take the fire blast.

Actually, hitting two Fire Blasts means the end. Two minimum-damage Fire Blasts followed by a Double-Edge 3 points off minimum kills Cloyster. I like those random number odds.

As far as accuracy goes, you have a 72.25% chance of hitting two consecutive Blasts. Again, decent odds.

Most things that can absorb a Fire Blast don't want to switch into Snorlax.

I guess in the end it depends what your team is and if you are in the position to sacrifice cloyster. I think its a pretty stupid idea, because you will just lose your spikes to a rapid spinner.nearly every good team on netbattle had rapid spinner, I guess its different on GSbot.

I'd trade Spikes for a turn (opponent Rapid Spinning) and a valuable opposing team member, personally. I'd like to note that having Explosion doesn't mean using it the moment you drop Spikes, but when it means you get to kick someone in the teeth.

I'd also like to mention that I'm not opposed to Rest when it's a smart move. For example, I've used plenty of Resting Forretresses. Forretress actually has decent HP as well as having only one weakness and none that are physical-based. He can't take a Fire attack, but he can absorb a lot of physical stuff and can take a special attack if needed, which Cloyster can't really boast. Of course, Forretress can pull off Rest plus Explosion in the same set...

It's good to be debating again.

[PinsirMaster]

Originally posted by GoldDraconian

Why would you do that when you could just switch in the machamp counter and not lose your steelix ( etc.) counter + spiker + rapid spinner?

I'd like you to name a Machamp counter that can switch in against 'champ every time it comes out, because I really can't think of any. Dead Machamps don't go around killing Skarmories and similar things any more.

Starmie with Psychic :P

That's funny, I've never seen one played in my life.

Where have you been living?

I don't see the relevance of mentioning Missy and Skarmory being present on your team. With those two around, however, Snorlax really shouldn't be an issue.

If spikes are up, Snorlax would be a big issue. Another reason to use Rapid Spin on Cloyster.

You'll kill it or come close if you explode on an uncursed one. The idea is to blow up first, since you're faster.

Or you could switch to Misdreavus or Skarm depending on if it has Earthquake or a fire move.

Belly drum... yeah cloyster *could* explode but it all depends if your playing someone "that dumb."

Dumb enough to use a Bellylax, or dumb enough not to switch out at 50%? You could bring Skarm in to absorb the Explosion, but you're still stuck with a Snorlax at half health.

Bellylax is harder to counter than Curselax. So how does using a Bellylax make you dumb? And Snorlax doesnt forget Rest for that half of health left.

It might be better if Cloyster had any health to restore.
It has 00ber defense.
Note that I can use bold to be annoying, too.

You're assuming that the Cloyster user is an idiot. If you're going to argue a point, the idea is to assume that people aren't as dumb as an empty asparagus can. If we say that the Explosion user is brain-dead and the Rest user isn't, then yeah, the Rest user will probably be more successful! By Jove, you're a genius! Now let's get back to reality; chances are good that if anyone is an idiot, it's the one using Rest.

Cloyster=Ultimate Spikeage machine

In theory FB snorlax > cloyster. Although, Snorlax has 8 fire blasts. it needs 3 in a row to kill cloyster. In addition to fire blasts accuracy lets say we, oh I don't know, let some

Actually, hitting two Fire Blasts means the end. Two minimum-damage Fire Blasts followed by a Double-Edge 3 points off minimum kills Cloyster. I like those random number odds.

Trainer switches to water-type expecting Fire Blast. Starmie/Suicune absorbs it. Lax now has one less Fire Blast :o

As far as accuracy goes, you have a 72.25% chance of hitting two consecutive Blasts. Again, decent odds.

Most things that can absorb a Fire Blast don't want to switch into Snorlax.

They wont and why not?

I'd trade Spikes for a turn (opponent Rapid Spinning) and a valuable opposing team member, personally. I'd like to note that having Explosion doesn't mean using it the moment you drop Spikes, but when it means you get to kick someone in the teeth.


Then they will go into stallwar mode and Spikes will be the difference.

I'd also like to mention that I'm not opposed to Rest when it's a smart move. For example, I've used plenty of Resting Forretresses. Forretress actually has decent HP as well as having only one weakness and none that are physical-based. He can't take a Fire attack, but he can absorb a lot of physical stuff and can take a special attack if needed, which Cloyster can't really boast. Of course, Forretress can pull off Rest plus Explosion in the same set...

Cloyster rests better.

It's good to be debating again.

[MetalScyther]

The best snorlax set is a matter of opinion. In my experience, I've found that bellylax is ownage if used right. I've also found that curselax is somewhat limiting, and that sleep talk snorlax is a waste of move slots, but that is just me. The reason why that set probably works so well for me is because I replaced blissey with snorlax, =[ And I can't afford to be losing 50% of my health at anytime when I need to be able to take special attacks from pokemon.

[Pokefan Stock]

[/b]I don't see the relevance of mentioning Missy and Skarmory being present on your team. With those two around, however, Snorlax really shouldn't be an issue.[/b]

cloyster isnt a snorlax counter... rest or explosion and I dont know why mre even brought it up.

I'd like you to name a Machamp counter that can switch in against 'champ every time it comes out, because I really can't think of any.

you are joking right? If machamp is this awesome, howcome it doesnt get half as much action as snorlax or heracross?

That's funny, I've never seen one played in my life.

just as I have never seen a sleep talking snorlax...

Dumb enough to use a Bellylax, or dumb enough not to switch out at 50%? You could bring Skarm in to absorb the Explosion, but you're still stuck with a Snorlax at half health.

Neither. You would be stupid not to hit cloyster on the switch and then switch out until cloyster is dead.

Actually, hitting two Fire Blasts means the end. Two minimum-damage Fire Blasts followed by a Double-Edge 3 points off minimum kills Cloyster. I like those random number odds.

As far as accuracy goes, you have a 72.25% chance of hitting two consecutive Blasts. Again, decent odds.

Yes I suppose your right about the snorlax thing. But snorlax will still own exployder on the switch.

It might be better if Cloyster had any health to restore. Note that I can use bold to be annoying, too.

So your suggesting cloyster is always dead or that it can never rest? The trick is to rest when one's health is low

You'll kill it or come close if you explode on an uncursed one. The idea is to blow up first, since you're faster.

Lol, so what? That isnt an argument, your just stating the obvious on an irrelevant topic.

Heracross: He *does* have a skarm in his team o_O

...which is irrelevant. The point is that Rester (Rest+Cloyster doesn't flow into a very good shortened form :[) can't necessarily do anything about it.

If your team is relying on CLOYSTER to beat heracross and snorlax -insert indignant comment on intelligence here-. If your opponent knows you are relying on cloyster to beat heracross and snorlax do you think he will let you explode on it?

[Y2Jesus]

Joining in because I'm bored. :o


Originally posted by Pokefan Stock
cloyster isnt a snorlax counter... rest or explosion and I dont know why mre even brought it up.

I think Mr.E brought it up because he was showing off Cloyster's ability (or lack thereof) to counter the common physical attackers (or Snorlax with FB :P) with their standard sets.

However, whilst Cloyster shouldn't really be deemed a perfect Snorlax counter, it can be used as one. Take this scenario into consideration;
Y2 sends out CLOYSTER!
Jesus' SNORLAX uses DOUBLE-EDGE!
(Just thought I'd mention recoil is negated by Leftovers recovery)
Y2's CLOYSTER uses ICE_BEAM!
- Minimum damage is 88 HP, meaning Snorlax is left with 435 HP, give or take a few.
(If Snorlax uses Double-Edge again, recoil is once again negated, but if they use Fire Blast, Snorlax recovers the odd 30 HP, leaving him with 465)
Y2's CLOYSTER uses EXPLOSION
- Boom, 453 HP minimum damage.

--^ The above paragraph summarised for the lazy: If Cloyster uses Ice Beam then uses Explosion, it has a fair chance to KO Snorlax. Hopefully you laid Spikes down earlier ;P.

you are joking right? If machamp is this awesome, howcome it doesnt get half as much action as snorlax or heracross?

Have to agree with you here, I'd rather use a Heracross (and I now do for that matter, not that it replaced Machamp).

just as I have never seen a sleep talking snorlax...

The odd few will be a Sleep Talking variety, but I think your set is even more common. :P

Neither. You would be stupid not to hit cloyster on the switch and then switch out until cloyster is dead.

I didn't really understand this, it is 2:50am however.

Yes I suppose your right about the snorlax thing. But snorlax will still own exployder on the switch.

Refer to my scenario. I don't think it changes anything if Snorlax's first move (on the switch-in) is Fire Blast, unless Cloyster was below 100% it can survive the switch-in, next turn when it Ice Beams, then goes first for Explosion.

So your suggesting cloyster is always dead or that it can never rest? The trick is to rest when one's health is low

Too many bold tags @_@. Anyway, a lot of attacks bring Cloyster down to 1/3rd health or slightly above (standard ones anyway, such as Heracross' Megahorn, Snorlax's Double-Edge or Fire Blast, Tyranitar's Rock Slide or Fire Blast), or even down to 1/2 health (Starmie Psychic is the only one I can think of off of (wtf) the top of my head. My point? Makes it difficult for Cloyster to pull off a successful Rest, especially if they hit you the turn you use Rest. Of course you can switch, but meh.

If your team is relying on CLOYSTER to beat heracross and snorlax -insert indignant comment on intelligence here-. If your opponent knows you are relying on cloyster to beat heracross and snorlax do you think he will let you explode on it?

Agree with you here.


Still not tired, so I may as well go back of GD's post.


Originally posted by GoldDraconian
I'd like you to name a Machamp counter that can switch in against 'champ every time it comes out, because I really can't think of any. Dead Machamps don't go around killing Skarmories and similar things any more.

Suicune could probably do it until Cross Chop CHs. Other then that, there isn't really one, but it really depends on the Machamp set. If, for example, it doesn't have Fire Blast (unlikely, but still possible), Heracross could switch in quite comfortably.

That's funny, I've never seen one played in my life.

Cloud's lax is that, or is has Counter/SD over Rest, I'll have to ask him. He might even have Shadow Ball somewhere.

Dumb enough to use a Bellylax, or dumb enough not to switch out at 50%? You could bring Skarm in to absorb the Explosion, but you're still stuck with a Snorlax at half health.

I'll leave that for PinsirMaster to answer.

It might be better if Cloyster had any health to restore. Note that I can use bold to be annoying, too.

Stupid 303 HP. :(

Damn, the rest of GD's post isn't really worth commenting on, I agree with what he said.

[GoldDraconian]

PinsirMaster:

Starmie with Psychic

I suppose Starmie and Slowbro can come in against Machamp repeatedly... That's pretty much it, though. Rather limited options, and either one adds a second Water type to your team if you've already got Cloyster.

Where have you been living?

Here?

If spikes are up, Snorlax would be a big issue. Another reason to use Rapid Spin on Cloyster.

I have no idea how this is related to the part of my post you quoted, honestly.

Or you could switch to Misdreavus or Skarm depending on if it has Earthquake or a fire move.

Or you can just kill Snorlax and not worry about the moves it has.

Belly drum... yeah cloyster *could* explode but it all depends if your playing someone "that dumb."

Bellylax is harder to counter than Curselax. So how does using a Bellylax make you dumb?

I didn't say it was; I asked if that was what Stock was implying.

And Snorlax doesnt forget Rest for that half of health left.

Provided it doesn't get killed before it gets to Rest. Forcing a Snorlax to switch out just after Drumming is like doing 50% damage to it in one attack, effectively.

It has 00ber defense.

And utterly un-00ber HP and Special Defense. One stat doesn't determine defensive ability; it's a combination of three.

Cloyster=Ultimate Spikeage machine

Again, this quote seems to be unrelated to the quote. An Exploding Cloyster lays down the spikes as well as a Resting one, a Qwilfish or a Delibird. It can re-Spike, maybe, but its durability is still poor. Rest fails to help that problem much. The ability to Spike after a Rapid Spin only becomes relevant if your opponent actually uses Rapid Spin, obviously, so even if Rest did make it durable, this point might still be irrelevant.

In theory FB snorlax > cloyster. Although, Snorlax has 8 fire blasts. it needs 3 in a row to kill cloyster. In addition to fire blasts accuracy lets say we, oh I don't know, let some

Trainer switches to water-type expecting Fire Blast. Starmie/Suicune absorbs it. Lax now has one less Fire Blast

Thanks for clarifying that, because it was surely an idea beyond somebody's grasp here. Oh shoot, only 7 more Blasts to go!

They wont and why not?

Because Snorlax beats them up?

Then they will go into stallwar mode and Spikes will be the difference.

I don't know about you, but I don't automatically go to stalling mode the moment I lose a Pokemon. Nothing prevents Exploding Cloyster from Spiking before it Explodes, and not everyone packs Rapid Spin.

Cloyster rests better.

Ahahahahahano
Forretress has a comparable physical endurance, better Special endurance, and only one weakness to Cloyster's 4. Cloyster's better Defense is made less relevant due to having lower HP than Forretress. Cloyster has physical weaknesses and no physical resistances, while Forry has no physical weakness and several resistances. Forretress has higher HP and Special Defense than Cloyster. Cloyster has nothing over Forretress as far as Resting goes.

Pokefan Stock:

cloyster isnt a snorlax counter... rest or explosion and I dont know why mre even brought it up.

Cloyster isn't an ANYTHING counter without Explosion. Cloyster with Explosion can, as it happens, slay a Snorlax. Cloyster with Rest can at best stall a Snorlax.

you are joking right? If machamp is this awesome, howcome it doesnt get half as much action as snorlax or heracross?

Snorlax is more durable than Machamp, which is why it sees more play. Heracross sees more play because people get aroused by Megahorn. Honestly, I don't see why Machamp is overused, since it kills Skarmory, Blissey and Snorlax handily and can dent virtually anything pretty hard.

Neither. You would be stupid not to hit cloyster on the switch and then switch out until cloyster is dead.

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here, but if I interpret this correctly, you suggest switching Snorlax out from Cloyster and hitting it as it switches in until it dies. Funny, Exployster does something useful when it's close to death, while Rest Cloyster lives for a turn or two more before dying.

Yes I suppose your right about the snorlax thing. But snorlax will still own exployder on the switch.

Snorlax owns Rest Cloysters because it can kill them. Exploysters own Snorlax because they can Explode for a probable KO. Remind me again- are you trying to make Rest Cloyster look good or bad?

So your suggesting cloyster is always dead or that it can never rest? The trick is to rest when one's health is low

I'm suggesting that it has poor durability, so Rest is dumb. If Cloyster's health is low, it means it will probably proceed to die momentarily. With Explosion, you make use of Cloyster's death.

Lol, so what? That isnt an argument, your just stating the obvious on an irrelevant topic.

I'm stating something obvious you seemed unaware of.

If your team is relying on CLOYSTER to beat heracross and snorlax -insert indignant comment on intelligence here-.

If anyone is recommending doing that, it would seem to be you.

If your opponent knows you are relying on cloyster to beat heracross and snorlax do you think he will let you explode on it?

Who said anything about relying on Cloyster alone for that purpose? All I've done is pointed out how Exploding Cloyster is better than Rest Cloyster against each of them if you want to use it that way.

Y2Jesus:

Cloud's lax is that, or is has Counter/SD over Rest, I'll have to ask him. He might even have Shadow Ball somewhere.

Selfdestruct/Fire Blast/Earthquake/Double-Edge is a classic Starterlax. Another case where I like an explosion over Rest. I've never seen one using Rest rather than Selfdestruct.

MetalScyther:

The reason why that set probably works so well for me is because I replaced blissey with snorlax, =[ And I can't afford to be losing 50% of my health at anytime when I need to be able to take special attacks from pokemon.

The few times I mentioned earlier that I wanted Rest over Selfdestruct were for that reason- Lax was my only Special absorber. Selfdestruct worked well enough that it kept the moveslot over Rest anyway.

If you're looking for a Rapid Spinning Spiker, get a Forretress- he can use Rapid Spin *and* still have an optimal moveset, unlike Cloyster.

[Y2Jesus]

I was wrong actually. Cloud's set does have Rest. I'm not saying it's the standard, just trying to prove a lot of sets that seem odd have been used.

[MetalScyther]

Um..I didn't read the whole thing, but really: the main point stock brings up is that cloyster can stall a snorlax. The main point of using an explosion cloyster is to faint a snorlax. I don't understand how stalling a snorlax is better than killing it. =[

[GoldDraconian]

MS: I'm pretty sure I asked at some point how stalling something is superior to killing it, and I think the answer was something mumbled about Cloyster being durable. Don't quote me on that, though.

[PinsirMaster]

Originally posted by MetalScyther
Um..I didn't read the whole thing, but really: the main point stock brings up is that cloyster can stall a snorlax. The main point of using an explosion cloyster is to faint a snorlax. I don't understand how stalling a snorlax is better than killing it. =[
But Cloyster remains alive as opposed to killing it.
With your logic, Selfdestruct is the only option on Snorlax because it can almost always kill the opponent. does it kill itself? Doesn't matter.

[Pokefan Stock]

Originally posted by GoldDraconian

PM, could you help me a little bit more than that by defending your own arguments =P

Pokefan Stock:

Cloyster isn't an ANYTHING counter without Explosion. Cloyster with Explosion can, as it happens, slay a Snorlax. Cloyster with Rest can at best stall a Snorlax.

Cloyster isnt a counter with explosion in the first place. *sigh* If someone knows your using exploding cloyster as a snorlax counter they will NOT let you explode on snorlax.

Snorlax is more durable than Machamp, which is why it sees more play. Heracross sees more play because people get aroused by Megahorn. Honestly, I don't see why Machamp is overused, since it kills Skarmory, Blissey and Snorlax handily and can dent virtually anything pretty hard.

Since when was this about machamp? Usually those "Skarmory, Blissey and Snorlax" are countered by atleast 1 of the other 3 pokemon. You know, how there are 6 pokemon in a team? Call me a newbie for it, but I never seen a team that consisted of only skarm/snorlax/blissey

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say here, but if I interpret this correctly, you suggest switching Snorlax out from Cloyster and hitting it as it switches in until it dies. Funny, Exployster does something useful when it's close to death, while Rest Cloyster lives for a turn or two more before dying.

Im suggesting that snorlax hits cloyster when cloyster switches in, then switches out. You call losing your spiker and leaving the poke that cloyster is countering alive useful? Well I would say useful was spiking and removing the opponents spikes, whilst never having to worry about getting low on health.

Snorlax owns Rest Cloysters because it can kill them. Exploysters own Snorlax because they can Explode for a probable KO. Remind me again- are you trying to make Rest Cloyster look good or bad?

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that if someone knows you are using cloyster to counter snorlax they WILL NOT LET YOU EXPLODE ON SNORLAX? "I'm stating something obvious you seemed unaware of."

I'm suggesting that it has poor durability, so Rest is dumb. If Cloyster's health is low, it means it will probably proceed to die momentarily. With Explosion, you make use of Cloyster's death.

I'm stating something obvious you seemed unaware of.

Actually I *was* aware that cloyster nearly ohkoed snorlax with explosion ;) The point was that you were ignoring the fact that a cursed snorlax wont get killed by an exploding cloyster

If anyone is recommending doing that, it would seem to be you.

Im saying that exploding cloyster isnt going to help the situation anymore than resting cloyster, and the same goes with machamp and snorlax.

If your opponent knows you are relying on cloyster to beat heracross and snorlax do you think he will let you explode on it?

Who said anything about relying on Cloyster alone for that purpose?

Err, MrE implied that when he suggested all those physical attackers

All I've done is pointed out how Exploding Cloyster is better than Rest Cloyster against each of them if you want to use it that way.

You havent even done that. Your just saying "whoa that guy is a dumb *** he will let me explode on his heracross/machamp/snorlax that my team is weak to."

Y2Jesus:

Cloud's lax is that, or is has Counter/SD over Rest, I'll have to ask him. He might even have Shadow Ball somewhere.

Selfdestruct/Fire Blast/Earthquake/Double-Edge is a classic Starterlax. Another case where I like an explosion over Rest. I've never seen one using Rest rather than Selfdestruct.

Lol, thats exactly where I got that set from. Cloud9x's snorlax is what I suggested, and the set which I thought was standard on GSbot.

MetalScyther:

The reason why that set probably works so well for me is because I replaced blissey with snorlax, =[ And I can't afford to be losing 50% of my health at anytime when I need to be able to take special attacks from pokemon.

The few times I mentioned earlier that I wanted Rest over Selfdestruct were for that reason- Lax was my only Special absorber. Selfdestruct worked well enough that it kept the moveslot over Rest anyway.

If you're looking for a Rapid Spinning Spiker, get a Forretress- he can use Rapid Spin *and* still have an optimal moveset, unlike Cloyster. [/B]

Cloyster OWNS forretress at spiking. you have never even tried rapid spinning cloyster, if you had you would know its superior in rapid spinning/spiking.

[Pokefan Stock]

However, whilst Cloyster shouldn't really be deemed a perfect Snorlax counter, it can be used as one. Take this scenario into consideration;
Y2 sends out CLOYSTER!
Jesus' SNORLAX uses DOUBLE-EDGE!
(Just thought I'd mention recoil is negated by Leftovers recovery)
*
Y2's CLOYSTER uses ICE_BEAM!
- Minimum damage is 88 HP, meaning Snorlax is left with 435 HP, give or take a few.
(If Snorlax uses Double-Edge again, recoil is once again negated, but if they use Fire Blast, Snorlax recovers the odd 30 HP, leaving him with 465)
*
Y2's CLOYSTER uses EXPLOSION
- Boom, 453 HP minimum damage.

*=switch here, depending on which turn you think cloyster will explode

[GoldDraconian]

But Cloyster remains alive as opposed to killing it.
With your logic, Selfdestruct is the only option on Snorlax because it can almost always kill the opponent. does it kill itself? Doesn't matter.

Snorlax has 220 more HP than Cloyster and doesn't have a defensive stat under 200. The argument isn't that Rest sucks, but rather that Rest sucks on things that have low durability AND have better moves available.

Cloyster isnt a counter with explosion in the first place. *sigh* If someone knows your using exploding cloyster as a snorlax counter they will NOT let you explode on snorlax.

I'd say that killing things counters them fairly effectively, wouldn't you?

How would the person know you have an Explosion Cloyster and are using it as a Snorlax counter? People like you are running around packing Rest. I'd also like to note that I'm not saying that Exployster should be your only Snorlax counter or anything, as you seem to be taking it, but rather that it can serve that purpose fairly well, and do so much better than Resting Cloyster.

Since when was this about machamp?

Since you brought him up?

Usually those "Skarmory, Blissey and Snorlax" are countered by atleast 1 of the other 3 pokemon. You know, how there are 6 pokemon in a team? Call me a newbie for it, but I never seen a team that consisted of only skarm/snorlax/blissey

You know, Machamp kills three of the most common Pokemon in the game? That makes it good. Taking out half or more of the average team is useful sometimes, you know? Don't be stupid; I never said that Bliss/Skarm/Lax was the entire team, and you should be able to work out that I was pointing out how it's useful.

Im suggesting that snorlax hits cloyster when cloyster switches in, then switches out. You call losing your spiker and leaving the poke that cloyster is countering alive useful? Well I would say useful was spiking and removing the opponents spikes, whilst never having to worry about getting low on health.

Exploding Cloyster makes a reasonably good counter for virtually anything that takes 1x damage from Normal, since I hear Explosion does some pretty high damage. Counter meaning "it kills them". Killing things is usually pretty good. As for not having to worry about getting low on health, that's a joke. As MrE and I have both pointed out multiple times, Cloyster with Rest doesn't even stall many common physical attackers, and it obviously can't hold out against Special attackers. Even Restbelling it is just a waste, since you've restored it to full health so it can... um... hang around as uselessly as before. Often, you'll only need to Spike once in a match anyway. Having Explosion does not mean you use it automatically- amazing concept, surely- so if you think you'll need to re-Spike, hold it back. Rest doesn't help with that much, because even a full health Cloyster has poor durability. If Rest maybe healed it to 150%, then it could see use. Too bad it doesn't.

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that if someone knows you are using cloyster to counter snorlax they WILL NOT LET YOU EXPLODE ON SNORLAX? "I'm stating something obvious you seemed unaware of."

Why do you keep ignoring the facts that the opponent doesn't necessarily know you use Cloyster to counter Snorlax, you will have other lax counters if you're smart, they're probably going to suffer regardless of what Cloyster Explodes on, and Exployster does things other than counter just Snorlax?

Actually I *was* aware that cloyster nearly ohkoed snorlax with explosion The point was that you were ignoring the fact that a cursed snorlax wont get killed by an exploding cloyster

If Snorlax Curses, you'd have to be a retard to Explode on it unless you put yourself into a good position by doing so somehow (for example, needing extra damage on it to KO using another Pokemon). If the Snorlax has Curse, your precious Rest Cloyster dies a violent death with no chance to harm Snorlax, especially with Surf over Ice Beam and therefore no chance to even freeze it. Funny how that works, eh?

Im saying that exploding cloyster isnt going to help the situation anymore than resting cloyster, and the same goes with machamp and snorlax.

If your opponent knows you are relying on cloyster to beat heracross and snorlax do you think he will let you explode on it?

You're making two assumptions: that the opponent knows your team and strategy, and that Cloyster is your only physical attacker counter. The idea is that Exployster CAN counter them, not that you should pack him as your only counter. It seems to me that I've mentioned this before, but maybe I haven't. To make sure it's clear: CLOYSTER WITH EXPLOSION CAN ACTUALLY COUNTER PHYSICAL ATTACKERS BY BLOWING UP ON THEM, UNLIKE REST CLOYSTER. THAT IS NOT ITS ONLY USE. I can't make it more obvious than that without using more tags that are necessary. I'm not saying that Cloyster should suddenly be your only counter to physical attackers or anything. I'm saying that countering physical attackers is among the uses it has among others that Rest Cloyster lacks in its resume. This was only brought up in the first place because stopping physical offenses is really the only conceivable use one might have for a Resting Cloyster, one at which it fails. You claim it can Spike and remove Spikes, but Rest doesn't help it much with that job, since it isn't durable to be gaining much HP if any as a result of Rest because it will get attacked while asleep. Sleeping Cloysters are no better than dead Cloysters at Spiking or Spinning. If it can't tank and it can't sit around Spiking and Spinning as you claim it can, what the devil does it do?

Err, MrE implied that when he suggested all those physical attackers

He was implying that Rest Cloyster can't stall them, which is the only logical reason it might be good. Read what's there and not what you want to be there.

You havent even done that. Your just saying "whoa that guy is a dumb *** he will let me explode on his heracross/machamp/snorlax that my team is weak to."

I find it ironic that you should say that, because you seem to be the one lacking an ability to defend their position. My posts aren't long empty ones; they're quite full if you pay attention.

Lol, thats exactly where I got that set from. Cloud9x's snorlax is what I suggested, and the set which I thought was standard on GSbot.

One person does not make a community.

Cloyster OWNS forretress at spiking. you have never even tried rapid spinning cloyster, if you had you would know its superior in rapid spinning/spiking.

I've never bothered, because I have yet to see practical or theoretical evidence that it does better in the long run. How can something with less durability do better in a long match?

[Spinarak-Man]

GD always wins and is always right. Give up now.


ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO GOLDDRACONIAN!

[Pokefan Stock]

Originally posted by GoldDraconian
Cloyster isnt a counter with explosion in the first place. *sigh* If someone knows your using exploding cloyster as a snorlax counter they will NOT let you explode on snorlax.

I'd say that killing things counters them fairly effectively, wouldn't you?

why do you not understand that USING EXPLOSION WILL NOT KILL THE DESIRED TARGET?

How would the person know you have an Explosion Cloyster and are using it as a Snorlax counter?

Ridiculous. The person would play like cloyster had explosion until cloyster used rest/rapid spin. Hmm, I think sending cloyster into snorlax repeatedly makes it your teams snorlax counter. Its not saying you dont have another counter but eventually it will die from hits on the switch

People like you are running around packing Rest. I'd also like to note that I'm not saying that Exployster should be your only Snorlax counter or anything, as you seem to be taking it, but rather that it can serve that purpose fairly well, and do so much better than Resting Cloyster.

Exployster doesnt counter snorlax at all. It doesnt matter if exployster > rest cloyster or rest cloyster > exployster when it comes to snorlax countering, cloyster can NOT counter snorlax.

Since when was this about machamp?

Since you brought him up?

Since MrE did actually.

Usually those "Skarmory, Blissey and Snorlax" are countered by atleast 1 of the other 3 pokemon. You know, how there are 6 pokemon in a team? Call me a newbie for it, but I never seen a team that consisted of only skarm/snorlax/blissey

You know, Machamp kills three of the most common Pokemon in the game? That makes it good. Taking out half or more of the average team is useful sometimes, you know? Don't be stupid; I never said that Bliss/Skarm/Lax was the entire team, and you should be able to work out that I was pointing out how it's useful.

Wow, yay. machamp beats 3 pokemons, even though it will never touch them. "Oh look, a machamp, I better be a good sport and leave blissey in instead of switching into slowbro"

Im suggesting that snorlax hits cloyster when cloyster switches in, then switches out. You call losing your spiker and leaving the poke that cloyster is countering alive useful? Well I would say useful was spiking and removing the opponents spikes, whilst never having to worry about getting low on health.

Exploding Cloyster makes a reasonably good counter for virtually anything that takes 1x damage from Normal, since I hear Explosion does some pretty high damage. Counter meaning "it kills them". Killing things is usually pretty good.

The only problem perhaps, is it doesnt kill them when they switch out, and the you die?

As for not having to worry about getting low on health, that's a joke. As MrE and I have both pointed out multiple times, Cloyster with Rest doesn't even stall many common physical attackers, and it obviously can't hold out against Special attackers.

Exployster can stall out for even less, and then loses its spikes opportunity, and explodes on the least valued poke. It depends on your definition of common actually...

Even Restbelling it is just a waste, since you've restored it to full health so it can... um... hang around as uselessly as before.

you can... um... spike and rapid spin? Counter things like marowak once more? Which is what... um... the cloyster set was meant to be doing in the first place.

Often, you'll only need to Spike once in a match anyway.

rofl

This could be why were having the argument in the first place...

Having Explosion does not mean you use it automatically- amazing concept, surely- so if you think you'll need to re-Spike, hold it back.

How are we going to hold it back with such low durability? Your saying cloyster has absolutely no use other than too spike and explode, because its too weak to counter other stuff

Rest doesn't help with that much, because even a full health Cloyster has poor durability. If Rest maybe healed it to 150%, then it could see use. Too bad it doesn't.

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that if someone knows you are using cloyster to counter snorlax they WILL NOT LET YOU EXPLODE ON SNORLAX? "I'm stating something obvious you seemed unaware of."

Why do you keep ignoring the facts that the opponent doesn't necessarily know you use Cloyster to counter Snorlax, you will have other lax counters if you're smart, they're probably going to suffer regardless of what Cloyster Explodes on, and Exployster does things other than counter just Snorlax?

The argument is Rest V Explosion Cloyster. If you want a snorlax dead, neither will do the job. The opponent can assume it is an exployster, it will do no harm. You are going to suffer more when cloyster dies.

Actually I *was* aware that cloyster nearly ohkoed snorlax with explosion The point was that you were ignoring the fact that a cursed snorlax wont get killed by an exploding cloyster

If Snorlax Curses, you'd have to be a retard to Explode on it unless you put yourself into a good position by doing so somehow (for example, needing extra damage on it to KO using another Pokemon). If the Snorlax has Curse, your precious Rest Cloyster dies a violent death with no chance to harm Snorlax, especially with Surf over Ice Beam and therefore no chance to even freeze it. Funny how that works, eh?

Both situations are particuarly stupid. Cloyster is not a snorlax counter, ever. Saying that explosion cloyster will beat it is incredibly stupid.

Im saying that exploding cloyster isnt going to help the situation anymore than resting cloyster, and the same goes with machamp and snorlax.

If your opponent knows you are relying on cloyster to beat heracross and snorlax do you think he will let you explode on it?

You're making two assumptions: that the opponent knows your team and strategy

if he/she plays like it has explosion it wont hurt them

and that Cloyster is your only physical attacker counter. The idea is that Exployster CAN counter them, not that you should pack him as your only counter.

but it CANT. do you understand?

It seems to me that I've mentioned this before, but maybe I haven't. To make sure it's clear: CLOYSTER WITH EXPLOSION CAN ACTUALLY COUNTER PHYSICAL ATTACKERS BY BLOWING UP ON THEM, UNLIKE REST CLOYSTER. THAT IS NOT ITS ONLY USE.

CAN BUT WONT UNLESS YOU ARE BATTLING AN IDIOT, and they both have the same amounts of uses

I can't make it more obvious than that without using more tags that are necessary. I'm not saying that Cloyster should suddenly be your only counter to physical attackers or anything. I'm saying that countering physical attackers is among the uses it has among others that Rest Cloyster lacks in its resume.

IT DOESNT COUTER PHYSICAL ATTACKERS IF YOUR OPPONENT DOESNT WANT IT TO, BECAUSE THERE IS THE OPTION OF "SWITCH"

This was only brought up in the first place because stopping physical offenses is really the only conceivable use one might have for a Resting Cloyster, one at which it fails.

Cloyster can certainly rest. Even if its defense was 100 points lower it could switch in against skarm, grounds [steelix, donphan etc.] stuff that doesnt attack [the odd blissey], miltank [careful for thunder...], forretress etc. and even stuff that is asleep ;o imagine what it could do with an extra 100 points!?

You claim it can Spike and remove Spikes, but Rest doesn't help it much with that job, since it isn't durable to be gaining much HP if any as a result of Rest because it will get attacked while asleep.



Sleeping Cloysters are no better than dead Cloysters at Spiking or Spinning. If it can't tank and it can't sit around Spiking and Spinning as you claim it can, what the devil does it do?

[i]Yeah, the thing is resting cloysters wake up after 2 turns, unlike exploding cloyster. Sometimes in a battle cloyster wont even have to rest. Cloyster *does* have good durability, but not good enough to go without resting, and the key move is rapid spin.

Err, MrE implied that when he suggested all those physical attackers

He was implying that Rest Cloyster can't stall them, which is the only logical reason it might be good. Read what's there and not what you want to be there.

Exployster doesnt stall tyranitar/heracross/machamp/snorlax better than rest cloyster. Yes, 1 on 1 exploding cloyster will probably do better, but if you have a well balanced team it shouldnt be a problem. All this heracross/machamp/snorlax stuff is basically irrelevant, as using a cloyster to counter these is plain stupid, no matter what set.

You havent even done that. Your just saying "whoa that guy is a dumb *** he will let me explode on his heracross/machamp/snorlax that my team is weak to."

I find it ironic that you should say that, because you seem to be the one lacking an ability to defend their position. My posts aren't long empty ones; they're quite full if you pay attention.

Thats funny, because I find most of your comments lacking. You ignore my arguments and tell me something I already know that is beside the point. im still waiting for the argument on my above comment...

Lol, thats exactly where I got that set from. Cloud9x's snorlax is what I suggested, and the set which I thought was standard on GSbot.

One person does not make a community.

I thought it made more sense then people using stalking laxes, and i've seen a couple of netbattle avatars saying "Standard GSbot rules, Sleep Clause and no Curselax".

Cloyster OWNS forretress at spiking. you have never even tried rapid spinning cloyster, if you had you would know its superior in rapid spinning/spiking.

I've never bothered, because I have yet to see practical or theoretical evidence that it does better in the long run. How can something with less durability do better in a long match? [/B]

LOL this is pathetic. Have you ever seen a cloyster surf on a forretress? Have you ever seen a forretress try to kill a sleeping cloyster? Cloyster is a better spiker & spinner, although not a better rester than forretress.

[[McGraw]]

I can't believe it took me this long to stumble on this thread - I must be more alert when hungover or something. Anyways, I would join the debate, but my head hurts too much =[

Arguing against MrE or with GD is a lost cause at the best of times, but when arguing with BOTH while being simultaneously WRONG, is just stupid.

Cloyster has nothing over Forretress as far as Resting goes.

Well, nothing except for speed... but I'm only being pedantic.

[Y2Jesus]

go away graw >:O

[MetalScyther]

I concur. Arguing with GD over any subject at any time = loss. And wow do I love threads like these.

[GoldDraconian]

In Illùvatar's name... Stock is starting to irritate me. Not because he's arguing with me, but because he's failing to do so.

Also, each post is becoming so huge that eventually they'll start collapsing the page when you try to load it under their weight.

Anyway, I'd better get to the important part...

why do you not understand that USING EXPLOSION WILL NOT KILL THE DESIRED TARGET?

How the hell can you be sure it won't? Cloyster has more than one potential turn to Explode on. Your opponent can't usually read your thoughts and doesn't usually scout your team and strategy to the point where he knows what you're planning before he battles. He's not going to be bloody well sure what the intended target is. Typically, you'll be fine with getting your Cloyster to blow up in front of most things that aren't Skarmory, Forretress or Steelix. Or Ghosts. I'm mentioning the last one because I'm sure you'd jump on the opportunity to say something that makes sense by pointing out Cloyster's unhappiness in Exploding in front of a Ghost.

Whether you kill their Snorlax or their Suicune doesn't generally bother the Exployster too much unless they're in a really bad position to deal with a specific Pokemon, which means they made an unbalanced team or played poorly.

The Cloyster moveset would not be part of the team-making problem.

Ridiculous. The person would play like cloyster had explosion until cloyster used rest/rapid spin. Hmm, I think sending cloyster into snorlax repeatedly makes it your teams snorlax counter.

Where the hell is this whole "sending him in repeatedly" thing coming from? You'll be sending it in once or twice against Snorlax, because you can kill it in 1 or 2 turns. And because the Cloyster can counter Snorlax does not make it your Snorlax counter. Exployster is your one-turn-everything-without-mad-endurance counter. Explosion's 500 base (effectively; it's base 250 but it cuts the opposing Defense in half for dmage calculation purposes) makes it damn good against most non-Rock, non-Steel, non-Ghosts.

Its not saying you dont have another counter but eventually it will die from hits on the switch

Not if you play like somebody smart and don't let that happen... If it's that low on health, you're not going to bloody well switch it out like you'd have to with a Rest Cloyster, you can Explode. Or you can Explode before you're really low on health so it's less obvious that you're gonig to do so. You're countering arguments that haven't been made here, it seems. I suggest that you stick to arguing about using it the way people actually use it rather than making up a bad way to play it and then saying it sucks because if you play it like a fool, it'll be crappy.

Exployster doesnt counter snorlax at all.

This is great. If killing something doesn't counter it, then how do you define a counter?

It doesnt matter if exployster > rest cloyster or rest cloyster > exployster when it comes to snorlax countering, cloyster can NOT counter snorlax.

It CAN, as it happens, but really only with Explosion, because 9 times out of 10 Rest Cloyster can't pull it off. Even in the 1 case, it still only stalls.

Since MrE did actually.

And you kept talking about it.

Wow, yay. machamp beats 3 pokemons

Okay, you're being incredibly dumb. You're being so ignorant, in fact, that I'm going to list all of the fully-evolved or equivalent Pokemon that a typical Machamp has a good chance of countering (read: killing before they kill him).

You ready?

Charizard, Butterfree, Beedrill, Pidgeot, Raticate, Fearow, Arbok, Pikachu, Raichu, Nidoqueen, Nidoking, Clefable, Ninetales, Wigglytuff, Crobat, Parasect, Venomoth, Dugtrio, Persian, Golduck, Primeape, Arcanine, Poliwrath, Politoed, Machamp, Tentacruel, Golem, Rapidash, Magneton, Farfetch'd, Dewgong, Muk, Cloyster (without Explosion; with Explosion, probably a draw), Gengar, Steelix, Electrode, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Hitmontop, Lickitung, Weezing (at worst draw due to Explosion), Blissey, Tangela, Kangaskhan, Seaking, Scyther, Scizor, Electabuzz, Magmar, Pinsir, Tauros, Lapras, Ditto, Flareon, Jolteon, Umbreon, Porygon2, Omastar, Kabutops, Aerodactyl, Snorlax, Articuno, Dragonite, Typhlosion, Furret, Noctowl, Ledian, Ariados, Lanturn, Togetic, Ampharos, Azumarill, Sudowoodo, Aipom, Sunflora, Yanma, Murkrow, Unown, Girafarig, Forretress, Dunsparce, Granbull, Qwilfish, Sneasel, Ursaring, Magcargo, Piloswine, Corsola, Octillery, Delibird, Mantine, Skarmory, Houndoom, Stantler, Smeargle, Miltank, Raikou, Entei, Tyranitar

I'm not counting things like Rhydon (possiblity of Counter) and Victreebel and Kingler, even though I could easily put them on the list.

This was done in about a minute by scrolling through a list of Pokemon with no calculations involved, so I don't want anyone coming to me and complaining about why something is or isn't there. The point is, Machamp kicks the crap out of tons of stuff.

even though it will never touch them. "Oh look, a machamp, I better be a good sport and leave blissey in instead of switching into slowbro"

Too bad most people don't carry Slowbro. Usually, teams don't have very good ways to counter Machamp specifically. Skarm is supposed to counter it, except it usually won't manage to.

When everything on your team is dead to Machamp, you can't really do much to him. They switch Blissey out to Skarm, Skarm takes a huge Cross Chop, Machamp goes out. Skarmory can only absorb a few attacks before it's a little too dead to do so. What are you going to do when Machamp takes out the Pokemon that "counters" it?

Im suggesting that snorlax hits cloyster when cloyster switches in, then switches out. You call losing your spiker and leaving the poke that cloyster is countering alive useful?

If he does that, we can assume the Cloyster user notices the pattern and doesn't Explode expecting to hit Snorlax. I'd like to point out, yet again, that Cloyster is not the only Snorlax counter and serves other purposes, like Exploding for a large amount of damage against all kinds of things, not just Snorlax. And if you lose your Skarmory or equivalent- perhaps to that Machamp you think is harmless- you're not going to have any good options when it comes to taking the Explosion.

Once there are Spikes on the ground, I think it's useful to kill something in exchange for a Pokemon that has no real use aside from laying Spikes. And again, Cloyster happens to be able to counter Snorlax among many other things when it can Explode on them! I'm arguing that Exployster is good in general, not that it's good because it can kill a Snorlax, although that is part of why it's good.

Well I would say useful was spiking and removing the opponents spikes, whilst never having to worry about getting low on health.

If your opponent has any moves that deal damage, you damn well have to worry about getting low on health, because Cloyster takes a lot of damage from stuff. If Cloyster actually had the endurance to survive a Rest and come out with more health than it started with without backup, then we wouldn't be arguing, because it would be worth Resting. As it is, it isn't worth it.

The only problem perhaps, is it doesnt kill them when they switch out, and the you die?

Um, but you still probably kill something, which is the point? If Exployster kills something in an Explosion, it succeeded. Getting the intended target is always nice, but as long as you kill something, you've done a good job.

Exployster can stall out for even less

A point which is irrelevant. Exployster probably kills something before dying. Rest Cloyster sits around for a few extra turns and does nothing of value but maybe use up a few extra PP, then dies without killing anything of its own. Yours doesn't even have Ice beam for a chance to freeze something.

and then loses its spikes opportunity

A lot of people don't use Rapid Spin, you know? I'd take a virtual guarantee of doing something useful (Explosion) over a tiny chance of countering something the opponent probably won't have any day. Before you say it, Cloyster's Explosion is not around to just kill Snorlax. It's around to kill most things that take neutral damage for it, or at least weaken them to the point where you can kill them in one more hit.

and explodes on the least valued poke.

Which was still valuable enough to make it onto the team, and it's now dead.

It depends on your definition of common actually...

com·mon ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kmn)
adj. com·mon·er, com·mon·est

Widespread; prevalent.

Occurring frequently or habitually; usual.

you can... um... spike and rapid spin? Counter things like marowak once more? Which is what... um... the cloyster set was meant to be doing in the first place.

You... um... can't, because they just kill Cloyster, and the worst you've done is... uh... not much? If they want to re-Spike or re-Spin, they're still not losing turns, because you've already wasted plenty of time keeping something with low durability alive?

It doesn't matter what the 'set it meant to be doing, because it can't actually get away with doing it.

rofl

Haha... oh wait, there's nothing funny about most facts like that. Never mind.

How are we going to hold it back with such low durability?

You press a different button?

Your saying cloyster has absolutely no use other than too spike and explode, because its too weak to counter other stuff

I'm saying it's too weak to try and tank with Rest, certainly. A Cloyster that's awake can probably spare a turn or possibly even two. A sleeping one is going to have trouble intimidating anything.

The argument is Rest V Explosion Cloyster. If you want a snorlax dead, neither will do the job.

Exployster can and sometimes will. When people mention things that Exployster can do, they're doing just that- listing things it can do. If it doesn't do them all, so what? You can't even come up with something reasonable that Rest Cloyster can do after it Spikes.

The opponent can assume it is an exployster, it will do no harm. You are going to suffer more when cloyster dies.

Since when is dying and doing damage worse than just dying?

Both situations are particuarly stupid. Cloyster is not a snorlax counter, ever.

It is in the situations where it counters Snorlax, I'd say.

Saying that explosion cloyster will beat it is incredibly stupid.

Being right is stupid?

Im saying that exploding cloyster isnt going to help the situation anymore than resting cloyster, and the same goes with machamp and snorlax.

Killing something tends to be better than not killing something, especially when you're going to lose a Pokemon no matter what you try to do.

if he/she plays like it has explosion it wont hurt them

If you play like someone with half a brain and play around their moves, you can pull it off. The only arguments you have as to why Exployster is bad seem to be that if you're stupid and your opponent isn't, you're not going to do well. The same can be said of Mewtwo; does that make it suck? No, it makes you a freaking idiot.

but it CANT. do you understand?

No, because you're making arguments that are inaccurate. Please elaborate as to how Exployster can't do things it can do. And give me real arguments this time, not just whining that I'm wrong and then shutting up.

CAN BUT WONT UNLESS YOU ARE BATTLING AN IDIOT, and they both have the same amounts of uses

YES IT CAN, AS IT HAPPENS, BECAUSE YOU CAN SCREW THEM UP FOR PLAYING AROUND IT. If you attack them when they run and hide behind Skarm or Forretress to avoid getting Explosion-owned, then they're going to run out of health. This is similar to your Snorlax vs. Cloyster switching scenario, except this one could actually happen.

Exployster can Explode. Rest Cloyster can pray that the opponent has a heart attack in the middle of the battle and can't keep playing and own it. The same number of uses, perhaps, but only the Exploding one can actually accomplish them.

IT DOESNT COUTER PHYSICAL ATTACKERS IF YOUR OPPONENT DOESNT WANT IT TO, BECAUSE THERE IS THE OPTION OF "SWITCH"

...INTO SOMETHING ELSE THAT WILL DIE. OMG HAVING SOMETHING DIE IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN HAVING SOMETHING DIE, AM I RIGHT?

Cloyster can certainly rest. Even if its defense was 100 points lower it could switch in against skarm, grounds [steelix, donphan etc.] stuff that doesnt attack [the odd blissey], miltank [careful for thunder...], forretress etc. and even stuff tHat is asleep imagine what it could do with an extra 100 points!?

If its defense was 100 points lower, its physical endurance would be similar to Quagsire's- hardly impressive. Its special endurance would still suck. It would be utterly useless.

Being able to switch in against things that don't attack doesn't make you a tank. Having 303 HP and 188 Special Defense- utterly pathetic stats- make Cloyster terribly vulnerable to even weak Special attacks, and as has been demonstrated, it can't even stall against most physical attackers, even with Rest.

Yeah, the thing is resting cloysters wake up after 2 turns, unlike exploding cloyster.

Not when they're killed first.

Sometimes in a battle cloyster wont even have to rest.

Yeah, because it dies first or never comes out.

Cloyster *does* have good durability, but not good enough to go without resting, and the key move is rapid spin.

What the hell does it endure, then? If something can't take physical attacks for long and can't take Special attacks at all, then what do you do, ask the opponent not to hurt it?

Exployster doesnt stall tyranitar/heracross/machamp/snorlax better than rest cloyster.

No, it kills them. The point is not that Exployster is more durable than Rest Cloyster, but rather that Rest Cloyster is no more durable in practice than Exploding Cloyster, and it loses Explosion's power in trying to do so.

Yes, 1 on 1 exploding cloyster will probably do better, but if you have a well balanced team it shouldnt be a problem.

If you have a brain, Rest Cloyster shouldn't be a problem, either. There's no need to play around a Resting Cloyster like you would with an Explosion Cloyster, because Resting Cloyster can't hurt you back when you beat it up.

All this heracross/machamp/snorlax stuff is basically irrelevant, as using a cloyster to counter these is plain stupid, no matter what set.

For the thousandth (that's a hyperbole, in case you weren't aware) time, the point is that the damned Explosion Cloyster CAN counter them, while Rest Cloyster can't. And also take note that Explosion does, indeed, counter them. DEAD THINGS COUNT AS BEING COUNTERED! You aren't even arguing here, you're saying Exploding Cloyster cannot do things that a blind raccoon can figure out it does.

Thats funny, because I find most of your comments lacking.

That's funny, because I find that your intelligence is lacking. Make me some actual arguments. When you say something, you'd damn well better back it up, or just get out and quit wasting my time. The extent of your argument is "Exploding Cloyster is not as good as Rest Cloyster because I said so." You have yet to make a single intelligent argument. Don't bother posting again until you both find an argument and find some way to back it up.

You ignore my arguments and tell me something I already know that is beside the point.

I can't ignore an argument that isn't around.

im still waiting for the argument on my above comment...

Which one would that be? I certainly don't see any realy arguments to comment on...

I thought it made more sense then people using stalking laxes

It does. Using Machamp makes sense, too. Making real arguments and backing them up makes sense. Not everybody makes sense. What doesn't change is that I have seen Stalking Laxes and I have not seen Rest/FB/Quake/DE laxes. But this point is irrelevant to the Cloyster debate, is it not? You were complaining earlier about Machamp being mentioned, and then you proceed to continue talking about something irrelevant?

e seen a couple of netbattle avatars saying "Standard GSbot rules, Sleep Clause and no Curselax".

Yeah, which typically leads people to use Bellylax or Starterlax.

LOL this is pathetic.

That's just what I was thinking about you, actually.

Have you ever seen a cloyster surf on a forretress? Have you ever seen a forretress try to kill a sleeping cloyster?

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Omg, this one time my Weedle beat a Caterpie, it must be good. Weedle is the new Curselax.

Quit bringing irrelevant examples in and start looking for arguments please.

Cloyster is a better spiker & spinner

As it happens, they're exactly the same as far as Spiking and Spinning goes, considering that the relevant effects of those moves remain the same no matter what uses them.

Cloyster, however, has a worse type and worse durability. That reduces its chances of being able to Spike or Spin more than once.

although not a better rester than forretress.

At least you've got something correct in the post.

[Sir Chris]

Holy crap GD just opened up a can of pure grade whoop ***.


also I like exploding cloyster more.

[Spinarak-Man]

Originally posted by Sir Chris
Holy crap GD just opened up a can of pure grade whoop ***.


also I like exploding cloyster more.

Well since Chris likes it, it must be correct.

[MetalScyther]

Chris likes all types of food in cans. Heh.

[Pokefan Stock]

meh ok... I obviously can't prove to you why I think rest cloyster is better. The posts are just too huge, and I cant see why machamp/snorlax/heracross got into this argument in the first place, because neither cloyster counters them. GD wins [not GP or mre tho ;o]

[Sir Chris]

Explosion cloyster should be, in fact, able to counter heracross.

its very simple, it explodes, heracross faints, heracrioss is countered whoo


I believe GD mentioned that someplace too

[bme]

Originally posted by Pokefan Stock
meh ok... I obviously can't prove to you why I think rest cloyster is better. The posts are just too huge, and I cant see why machamp/snorlax/heracross got into this argument in the first place, because neither cloyster counters them. GD wins [not GP or mre tho ;o]
I've read all of this thread, so... hehe. ^^; It's not about winning or losing. They're just trying to help you see something you might not of noticed. I'd be greatful someone pointed that out, as people could've said "Nah, not worth it.". Counting is simply stopping it. Explosion is worth it, since it can do that. Rest is iffy because sure it makes it stall Snorlax, but that turn it Rest's is when a Lightball Pikachu comes in and shows no mercy!!! :O Ok, I could've said Raikou, or anything, but I wanted to say Pika followed by something cool.... Stop laughing. :(

I personally like Explosion Cloyster. Besides being a favorite, knowing someone is screaming as you get Spikes down, then blow their Machamp into pieces makes it worth it too.:yes: