Is gamecube really dead on its feet? Should I get an Xbox?

[vegetrunks]

I love nintendo, I love the gamecube, but I can't help but notice they are starting to fall behind. Everywhere I go I see shelves of Xbox and PS2 games and then a tiny little section for gamecube, and some retailers, like dixons and TESCO seem to have dropped it completely. No gamecues or games newhere at all. And then I read in a magazine that nintendo has suspended production of gamcubes. Now I know nothing about how the games industry really works but I know suspending production don't sound too good.

I'd love for nintendo to come out on top of this console war. But at the moment they aren't. And I'm worried that nintendo will keep on losing support and end up like SEGA. This worry has led me to, for the first time ever, consider getting a console that is not made by nintendo. I'm thinking of the Xbox specifically. I like the online gaming and think they've got some really gr8 games out for it. PLus it is the most powerful available as far as I know. If I did get it I'd get it 4 Christmas seeing as I can't afford it now. I know its a while away but I have 2 think about this, if I got it for christmas its unlikely I'd get much else.

So, would it be wise to stick with gamecube and buy more games for that, or move over to the Xbox? And is nintendo really in as bad a position as it look to me?

[Razola]

People have to look at the big picture here.

The Gamecube is the number two system in the world right now. And even in countries where it is losing, it is by a small margin.

The X-Box and Gamecube are both getting just eaten alive by the PS2. If Gamecube is having problems, then X-Box is dying as well (which neither are).

But hey, remember the Game Boy Advance? It's outselling the PS2, earning Nintendo wads of green. So even if Nintendo did abandon consoles, it would just focus soley on the handheld market.

Nintendo has lost a few developers, but they suck. Acclaim and Edios in particular. Oh no! No more crappy Turok and Tomb Raider games?

Not that Nintendo is without flaws. While the whole kid image is really more a creation of, ironically, kids, Gamecube does need to shed it with a few more games like Metroid and Enternal Darkness. I do not want to see Nintendo making games soley on what a bunch of morons in message boards think. Mario Sunshine, Pikmin, and Animal Crossing are excellent games and adult themes do not make better games.

What Nintendo really needs is a strong online launch, a more aggressive ad compaign (rather than the weak commercials they have now), and they really need to be grabbing more developers. Good developers. Focus on the GBA will be needed soon as well, because the PSP will offer stiff competition.

So grab a cube. It's 99 bucks now and there are a lot of good games out (Smash, Mario Kart soon, Metroid, etc).

[woz]

why don't you look at the available games and decide yourself. that's what i did when i got an xbox.

[GreenShirT]

The Gamecube is by no means dead. Itis outselling Xbox alot especially in Japan where last week Xbox sold 200 units (y)

Tesco just suck, I work for them so know this. They have dropped most of the Xbox stuff they carried to and will get rid of it all soon aswell. Dont try to argue with em on this, I work there and know they are doing it -_-;

Overall GC has better games than Xbox in my and a majority of other peoples opinion and graphics wise there really is no real noticable difference. I expected so much but after playing Halo I was left wanting.

Get yourself a GC or PS2 at the least.

[woz]

lol yeah better watch out because tesco is a major electronics outlet. :yes: :rolleyes: the only place gamecube is doing well is japan. ps2 and xbox are beating it in europe and north america. i expect gamecube sales to pick up once the new exclusive games are released (like crystal chronicles, etc). i also note some electronic outlets have also started dropping gamecube things over ps2 and xbox in the uk (like entire chains of dixons for example, which is a lot more concerning than a tesco store in north east england)

[Pewter City Geodude]

Nintendo only temporarily suspended production of the GC to get rid of the large buildup of stock, it has absolutely nothing to do with the GC dying.

[Cheesey]

Gamecube all the way. I think that they have a lot better titles - Even if they're not as popular as the other two consoles if you like the games more then that's the console for you.

I do agree that Nintendo aren't doing very much to make it sell - As Raz said, you need more titles like Eternal Darkness and Metroid Prime to really sell. Nintendo also need to do a lot more advertising. If all else fails then they still have the GBA - A very popular console and will not die any time soon.

[vegetrunks]

Thanx for the opinions every1 but this isn't a "Should I get Xbox or Gamecube?" thread. I already own a gamecube. The question is should I keep buying games for it or get an Xbox?

I know u may think, hey get an Xbox, u've got nothing to lose, but I can only really afford to keep one console on the go at a time. If I got an Xbox then I'd leave the gamecube to rot. I just ont have the money to buy an equal amount of games for both consoles.

And ur probly right about TESCO, its just that its the closest place to my house that sells games so I noticed it a lot more than you did. I also heard ARGOS was considering dropping it.

And if nintendo is suspending production to clear out unsold stock, doesnt this mean supply is exceeding demand? Not good for any business. But maybe I'm being too pessimistic, I should probly just 4get about sales and get back to enjoying games.

[Razola]

-Mario Kart Double Dash
-Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
-Viewtiful Joe
-Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg
-Nintendo Puzzle Collection
-Pikmin 2
-Kirby's Air Ride
-Animal Crossing 2
-Pokemon Colosieum
-Megaman X RPG

That's upcoming titles off the top of my head. If you can't afford both then keep buying games. Otherwise, you'll down 150 just getting the X-Box: that's 3 GC games you could have gotten.

While both offer solid titles, you're better off sticking with the cube.

And even if the cube was dying, if you own one already, then all you need to worry about is games. When quality titles stop coming in, then you can make plans to get the Box.

[Mikey]

I currently own both a cube and an Xbox. Though I treasure cube and love the games for it, I feel that Xbox is superior to it. First off, when my friends and I get together, it's all about the box. It can link up, has great online play, and it's multiplayer games rock. I.E- Halo, Unreal Championship. Counter Strike is coming out soon and I cannot wait till Halo 2 and Conker Live and Uncut.

Both systems are great, but I prefer the Xbox. it kicks arse and you should definitly get one this holiday season!

[Mewfour]

The Cube is the best way to go. Sure, it may not have huge 3rd party support, but after the crap that was Enter the Matrix, Hulk, and various other "licenced" games, who cares? When it comes to 1st/2nd party support, you can't go wrong with the Gamecube. Sure, the Xbox is capable of some pretty hefty eye candy, but when you're playing the Matrix on any system, you quite frankly would rather rip your skin off and roll around in brine.

But enough mindless fanboy bicker. On to the meat. Why should you save your money from Microsoft? One: The low selection of "good" Xbox games. Now before you go calling me a mindless Nintendo fanboy (I am, anyway), hear me out. Yes, I've played Halo. Sweet game, just a little too much of the same recycled FPS stuff we've been playing since Quake II. Other than Halo, the only other good games for Xbox are their version of Soul Calibur 2, Splinter Cell(Sorta'), Mechwarrior, Hitman 2, and (supposedly) SW:KotOR. But hey, almost every Xbox "exlusive" is coming out on PC anyway. Two: The crash factor. Did you know that the Xbox has the highest failure rate than the GC and PS2 combined? Well, now you do. Three: The liscened crap, which I've already discussed. Besides, if you're going to get Xbox 2 and already have an Xbox, do you really want to shell out 50-odd bucks for ANOTHER DVD/CD player? I sure as hell don't. And the fact that the early Xboxes scratched DVDS don't bode me over so well either. And do NOT get me started on that evil, evil spawn of Satan controller.

As for 'Cube, other than the lack of "mainstream" games, you can't go wrong. Online? Pfffffft. Who needs those laggy glitchy godmoddy pay-out-the-nose crapfests anyway? GC has a ton of exlcusive titles, and more often than not, they're awesome. Metroid Prime, SSBM, F-Zero GX, SC2(w?Link), LoZ:WW, Viewtiful Joe, SoA:L, MGS:TTS, Animal Crossing(Okay, it's just addictive), Ikaruga, WMXIX, Killer 7, and let's not forget that oh-so-delightful MegaMan Collection Capcom's brewing up. Besides, at only 99 bucks US, it's a freakin' CRIME not to buy one. And how about that GBA connectivity? That "exclusive" weapon in Splinter Cell's GCN version sure does get the average Nintendophile happy in a hurry.

Bottom line, stick with your 'Cube, or even get a PS2. Me? I wouldn't be caught dead with an Xbox, unless someone dropped it on my head.

[Crazy]

WHY IS PS2 SELLING SO WELL? I mean every five minutes they have a game for that OVERATED system. I mean compare the best gamecube game(Graphic wise) or the best Xbox game (graphic wise) to the PS2s I mean why the heck is it so fricken popular?

[kalad1]

for one thing, I regularly chant "Death to the Microsoft Infidels" while playing my cube.
secondly, I admit that PS2 has better online, but I say WHO CARES? ONLINE SUCKS!
the reason for the popularity of X-BOX and PS2 comes down to this, In My Not So Humble Opinion, PEOPLE ARE MORONS! who the hell wants to hold that awful X-BOX controller anyway?

[PNT510]

Originally posted by kalad1
for one thing, I regularly chant "Death to the Microsoft Infidels" while playing my cube.
secondly, I admit that PS2 has better online, but I say WHO CARES? ONLINE SUCKS!
the reason for the popularity of X-BOX and PS2 comes down to this, In My Not So Humble Opinion, PEOPLE ARE MORONS! who the hell wants to hold that awful X-BOX controller anyway?

I want to hold the "awful" XBox controller. I must say the Large Xbox controller is hands down my favorite controller. Out of PS2, GCN, and XBox controllers.

[Mewfour]

Uh, why in the BLUE hell do you have a swastika in your sig?

[Last Exile]

The next six months for the Gamecube will be great.

1. Soul Calibur 2.
2. F-Zero GX.
3. Final Fantasy - Crystal Chronicles.
4. Sonic Heroes.
5. Billy Hatcher & The Giant Egg.
6. Prince of Persia - Sands of Time.
7. Sphinx.
8. Mario Kart 2.

The Cube is a good console. PS2 just has too much control of the advertising and marketing avenues. Final Fantasy just gives them too much leverage.

[Razola]

Originally posted by kalad1
for one thing, I regularly chant "Death to the Microsoft Infidels" while playing my cube.
secondly, I admit that PS2 has better online, but I say WHO CARES? ONLINE SUCKS!
the reason for the popularity of X-BOX and PS2 comes down to this, In My Not So Humble Opinion, PEOPLE ARE MORONS! who the hell wants to hold that awful X-BOX controller anyway?

Honestly people, there are options (http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/product/219506.asp) now. Quick knocking the controller and start drooling over games like Fable.

[vegetrunks]

Thanx all. I still havent decided which of the two to settle on tho, but its hardly a huge problem is it?

I know both systems have their strong points, I never really realised how many great gamecube exclusives are coming out until now so its looking more GC at the moment. But I might change my mind.

I do notice that the Xbox generally comes out with the better graphics on multiplatform games, and it does have rare going for it dont it. But I never heard about that crashing thing before, that would b a *****. And I do have problems with the control pad, the GC pad is almost perfect besides that dang Z button IMO but the xbox pad. I cannot make head nor tail of that thing.

[Saturos]

I had a dream last night about getting a XBOX for Christmas... Why in the hell would I have that dream? Mainly because I wanted to play Rareware games! GCN outsold more consoles so far since Nintendo lowered its price. It's beating PS2 and left XBOX in the dust... Here's a comparison:

GAMES:
1. Nintendo
2. Sony
3. Microsoft

ONLINE:
1. Sony
2. Microsoft
3. Nintendo

CONTROLLER:
1. Nintendo
2. Sony
3. Microsoft

SOUND:
1. Nintendo (Dolby Pro Logic 2)
2. Microsoft (Dolby Digital)
3. Sony (???)

GRAPHICS:
1. Nintendo (my opinion: Crispy Clear and more detailed)
2. Microsoft (my opinion: Smoothingly Clear, isn't that detailed...)
3. Sony (screen is too gittery, needs work)

QUALITY SERVICE:
1. Nintendo (very nice and helpful Reps)
2. Sony (very helpful service)
3. Microsoft (they think they're all that, but aren't!!!)

GAME CHARACTERS:
1. Nintendo (you know 'em, you love 'em! Including Rare.)
2. Sony (they're not that famous...)
3. Microsoft (who in the hell comes up with them anyway?)

SYSTEM DIFFICULTY:
1. Microsoft (crashes, freezes, overheats, and scratches the disc)
2. Sony (no problems other than multiplayer...)
3. Nintendo (doesn't overheat and amazing playback)

Winner:
Nintendo

So stick with Nintendo. They've got great games and services. "But it doesn't have DVD capabilities!" Big deal, game consoles are only meant for playing games.

~Adam

[woz]

Originally posted by Saturos
I had a dream last night about getting a XBOX for Christmas... Why in the hell would I have that dream? Mainly because I wanted to play Rareware games! GCN outsold more consoles so far since Nintendo lowered its price. It's beating PS2 and left XBOX in the dust... Here's a comparison:

GAMES:
1. Nintendo
2. Sony
3. Microsoft

ONLINE:
1. Sony
2. Microsoft
3. Nintendo

CONTROLLER:
1. Nintendo
2. Sony
3. Microsoft

SOUND:
1. Nintendo (Dolby Pro Logic 2)
2. Microsoft (Dolby Digital)
3. Sony (???)

GRAPHICS:
1. Nintendo (my opinion: Crispy Clear and more detailed)
2. Microsoft (my opinion: Smoothingly Clear, isn't that detailed...)
3. Sony (screen is too gittery, needs work)

QUALITY SERVICE:
1. Nintendo (very nice and helpful Reps)
2. Sony (very helpful service)
3. Microsoft (they think they're all that, but aren't!!!)

GAME CHARACTERS:
1. Nintendo (you know 'em, you love 'em! Including Rare.)
2. Sony (they're not that famous...)
3. Microsoft (who in the hell comes up with them anyway?)

SYSTEM DIFFICULTY:
1. Microsoft (crashes, freezes, overheats, and scratches the disc)
2. Sony (no problems other than multiplayer...)
3. Nintendo (doesn't overheat and amazing playback)

Winner:
Nintendo

So stick with Nintendo. They've got great games and services. "But it doesn't have DVD capabilities!" Big deal, game consoles are only meant for playing games.

~Adam

rofl oh my god that post was the most one sided i have read in years and it had me in tears. best post ever...sony number one in online services ahaha man i'm still laughing.

ok for starters xbox's dolby sound system outperforms gamecube's dolby sound system.
xbox and gamecube's graphics are equal in most games except in a few where the xbox's are superior.
sony has the best game selection at the moment.
"system difficulty" lol, right my xbox crashes all the time, freezes overheats and scratches all my discs and that's why i play it the most. the only console i had a problem with was my gamecube when it wouldn't play super monkey ball after a few games with it :(.
rare's characters are now microsoft's so you can scratch them from your list. sony and microsoft don't really have characters or console mascots so i'd love to see what you took into consideration when you decided that list.
xbox live is the best online service offered by all the consoles...wow i bet putting nintendo last there really hurt you.
controllers are all one person's preference. i like the xbox controller S best, followed by ps2's dualshock 2, followed by gamecube's controller and coming last is xbox's standard controller.
frankly i'm happy that ps2 and xbox have dvd and cd playback because i think it is handy to have just one thing on the shelf under my tv that can play my movies, cds and (most often) play games.

i think that's all i'll add for now.

[Saturos]

It's okay, Woz, it was just my opinion anyway...

~Adam

[Razola]

Let's make this a little less biased, shall we?

1st PARTY GAMES:
1. Nintendo
2. Microsoft
3. Sony

ONLINE:
1. Microsoft
2. Sony
3. Nintendo

CONTROLLER:
1. Nintendo
2. Sony
3. Microsoft

I actually agree with this. But I've never touched a Controller S so...

SOUND:
1. Microsoft (Dolby Digital)
2. Nintendo/Sony

Not sure about Sony, but I think they do have superior sound.

GRAPHICS:
1. Microsoft
2. Nintendo
3. Sony

Have you actually seen an X-Box game in action? Oh, and don't forget that X-Box games can play in a higher res than the other two.

Service is basically you throwing more biased material in. This may be opinion, but you still have to back it up if you want people to take you seriously.

GAME CHARACTERS:
1. Nintendo
2. Microsoft
3. Sony

A matter of pure opinion. I like how you gave Nintendo credit for Rare's characters. They're on X-Box now...

SYSTEM QUALITY
1. Microsoft
2. Nintendo
3. Sony

PS2 is a terrible DVD player, I don't even count it anymore when I consider purchasing one. But there is no way in hell you can go over the fact that the X-Box has a hard drive included in it. No money on memory cards? Yes please.

[kalad1]

I have this to say about X-Box, It's A @&$#ING COMPUTER! they should have just made a comp controller and put the games out for computer, I don't see any reason why they made the X-Box into a video game system.

[PNT510]

Originally posted by kalad1
I have this to say about X-Box, It's A @&$#ING COMPUTER! they should have just made a comp controller and put the games out for computer, I don't see any reason why they made the X-Box into a video game system.

The only thing that makes it more like a computer than Gamecube and PS2 is the fact that it has a hard drive. Quite frankly I wouldn't be suprised if the next nintendo and sony system both included them too, seeing how they are great. Custom sound tracks, faster load times, downloadable content, and not having to deal with memory cards. If that makes my video game system more like a PC then all consoles should be more like PCs.

[dracox]

wow this must be the worst topic ever created

for people who say hte xbox controller sucks, you really need to get bigger hands or something. also look into getting the ****in controller s.

for the people who say memory cards suck, how do they suck? because you have to get off your *** and put it a memory card? in the two years ive had my gamecube, not once have i had memory card problems. Especially since ive had the 16x

for those who say the xbox/ps2 dvd players are nice, they're not. You could buy a better one for cheaper, but hey why bother.

And for Raz's comment about drooling over Fable, yea i don't think so. The new screenshots of the game are quite craptacular compared to the old ones.

One last thing, PNT customazible sound tracks are nice, too bad half the cds you use dont work, and if you are stuck with the thompson drives youre sol. Downloadable content itself is a joke, especially when it comes every couple months. The only game I can think of right now that actually uses it in a good way is mechassault and splinter cell.

[ILikePokemonP]

Originally posted by dracox
for the people who say memory cards suck, how do they suck? because you have to get off your *** and put it a memory card? in the two years ive had my gamecube, not once have i had memory card problems. Especially since ive had the 16xYou have to pay extra money and capacity is hundreds of times lower than a hard drive. Laziness wouldn't be a problem for most people because you'd use one card mostly unless you're using 59s or have hundreds of games.

[Razola]

Memory cards aren't a big problem, but you can't deny that having a hard drive is a plus.

[dracox]

oh no doubt, hard drives are great.

but hell, how can memory cards be a problem when you can get a 16x memory card for $7 at kaybee. Maybe for the people living overseas it could a problem.:yes:

[Heald]

Okay, before I go into my contribution, I own a PS2 and my brother has a GameCube, so forgive me if I'm biased against the X-Box (or Gamecube for that matter)

First of all, Microsoft is single-handedly killing the gaming industry. It is buying out companies like Rare and Rockstar(*) away from their home consoles because 'money talk and bulls**t walks' as we all know.

(*)They haven't bought out Rockstar as such, but they convinced them to break a contract with Sony in return for mega $$$ so Microsoft get GTA3 and GTA:VC

That was probably biased, but nonetheless true.

Anyway, the XBox is the most powerful console and it has superb games such as Halo and some others which are all out on the PC and are far superior on the PC (thanks to my love of the mouse). Apart from that, multi-format titles build up the rest of their not so impressive arsenal. The reason the Xbox doesn't sell that well in both the East and West is because:

In the East: They POed the consumers by manufacturing a console which wasn't compact which, as we all should know, is what is big over there. Japanese LOVE compact things and HATE big bulky things.

In the West: Their initial debut in the western market gave them a bad reputation. People laughed at the controller (and still do, suffice the new one) and frankly, not even Halo, which was the only must-have game for the console, save it in the early months. Sure it grew but it was cursed with a sorry debut. Even the Dreamcast got a better reception. Plus the fact the early consoles scratched discs.

Gamecube is failing mainly because it fails to answer to the demand: VIOLENCE IS GOOD. VIOLENCE IS FUN. You probably think that isn't true but look at the biggest selling games on the respective consoles: GTA:VC, GTA3, Halo, Timesplitters 2 and so on and so forth. Most gamers just want to pick up a gun and shoot someone, not roll around as Chuckles the Chimp collecting bananas in repetitive gameplay (sorry, that is a cynical view of Monkey Ball. I love it really but that is a view the non-believers take). And frankly, it has managed to mess up their best characters. For example:

MARIO! He's made a return from Super Mario 64! BUT WHAT HAS CHANGED! He can't jump very high! He can't punch! Paint kills him! He has a water-gun attached to his back! GASP! As you stand there watering a weed and killing it. PRAISE! As you turn off the console. SN|GGER! As you see someone picking it up out of the bargain bin.

And what about LINK! Back from the best game of all time, Ocarina of Time and the amazingly craptacular Majora's Mask! BUT WHAT IS NEW? He's 2D! The graphics have taken a turn for the worse! Cel-shading is crap and everyone told you so! He's lost all his fans! He's being laughed at! The game is great but nobody cares!

(and please don't tell me I've been biased again since I have played both games to death, and while I was impressed with Wind Waker (sn!ggers at the worst title since Attack of the Clones) but annoyed at the monotonuous Sunshine. SM64 beats it hands down)

Nintendo fails to realise you can't use the same tactics as you could 5-10 years ago. 5-10 years ago, kids played fun non-violent games and watched Arnie films for the violence (and back then more kids played than adults). Now Arnie is a Governor both kids and adults want violence from games and they won't get it from squirting weeds with Mario. They tend to veer towards the PS2 and the vastly superior GTA:VC.

So why does the PS2 do so well? It was released a year before the X-Box and Cube, giving it a distinct advantage and while it isn't the better console, the games certainly do appeal to the vast majority of the public. It is a case of following the crowd: if your mates have PS2s (which they do) then you get one to so you can get better than them at your favourite games and swap games too. It is a name people can trust too due to the fact the PS1, although dwarved by the N64, still proved to be the victor above it in the end.

I may have expressed my opinions here but the majority of it is actually public opinion and it is a feasible reason why PS2 is eating everyone up.

As for your question, X-Box, definately, although if I can sway you towards the PS2, then please reconsider (although many Nintendo fans hate Sony for defeating them at N64). Otherwise...

This is the hierachy of the consoles not by sales but in general.

1. Sony Playstation2
2. Microsoft Xbox
3. Nintendo Gamecube

[classy_cat18]

Let me set it straight for the Insane Clown Posse reject. You think that the Gamecube sucks that much? Tell it to those that made the Gamecube's sales rise so much since they lowered the price! Let's just organize this:

1. Microsoft may have Rare, but their games won't be coming out for a while. Plus we haven't even heard news about what they have in store for Banjo-Kazooie.

2. There are still people that don't like violence in their games (or don't care). If you need violence in your games that much, then I don't want to know what you're like in real life.

3. I won't touch bases with your opinion on Super Mario Sunshine and TWW. I know it's your opinion, so you probably haven't seen how many people loved that game. And let me squeeze in Animal Crossing, which is about as addictive as it is nonviolent and cute (in a sorta annoying kind of way).

4. I've noticed every time the X-Box comes out with something superb (like Panzer Dragoon Orta or Halo), it releases dozens of sub-par games. The Gamecube has lots of great video games coming out around Christmas alone. See CCC's list for examples.

5. The only reason I'll be buying a PS2 anytime soon is to workout to Dance Dance Revolution. That or try out the .hack// series, whatever floats my boat.

And whoever started this thread, if you can't decide, I suggest you stick to a GBA or GBASP. Those babies has outsold every other console, they have great games, they're portable, they're cheaper, and they come in splendid colors (unlike the X-Box, which only comes out in black).

[The Muffin Man]

Originally posted by Crazy
WHY IS PS2 SELLING SO WELL? I mean every five minutes they have a game for that OVERATED system. I mean compare the best gamecube game(Graphic wise) or the best Xbox game (graphic wise) to the PS2s I mean why the heck is it so fricken popular?

Because it's had over a year to gather steam over the other 2?

Right now, actually, GC is the #1 system, The price lowering has given them the essential boost Nintendo needed. It's no longer "I'd buy it...but the price leaves no room for games"

Not it's "wow! $100? I can get a game with that".

[Crazy]

Originally posted by HealdPK
Okay, before I go into my contribution, I own a PS2 and my brother has a GameCube, so forgive me if I'm biased against the X-Box (or Gamecube for that matter)

First of all, Microsoft is single-handedly killing the gaming industry. It is buying out companies like Rare and Rockstar(*) away from their home consoles because 'money talk and bulls**t walks' as we all know.

(*)They haven't bought out Rockstar as such, but they convinced them to break a contract with Sony in return for mega $$$ so Microsoft get GTA3 and GTA:VC

That was probably biased, but nonetheless true.

Anyway, the XBox is the most powerful console and it has superb games such as Halo and some others which are all out on the PC and are far superior on the PC (thanks to my love of the mouse). Apart from that, multi-format titles build up the rest of their not so impressive arsenal. The reason the Xbox doesn't sell that well in both the East and West is because:

In the East: They POed the consumers by manufacturing a console which wasn't compact which, as we all should know, is what is big over there. Japanese LOVE compact things and HATE big bulky things.

In the West: Their initial debut in the western market gave them a bad reputation. People laughed at the controller (and still do, suffice the new one) and frankly, not even Halo, which was the only must-have game for the console, save it in the early months. Sure it grew but it was cursed with a sorry debut. Even the Dreamcast got a better reception. Plus the fact the early consoles scratched discs.

Gamecube is failing mainly because it fails to answer to the demand: VIOLENCE IS GOOD. VIOLENCE IS FUN. You probably think that isn't true but look at the biggest selling games on the respective consoles: GTA:VC, GTA3, Halo, Timesplitters 2 and so on and so forth. Most gamers just want to pick up a gun and shoot someone, not roll around as Chuckles the Chimp collecting bananas in repetitive gameplay (sorry, that is a cynical view of Monkey Ball. I love it really but that is a view the non-believers take). And frankly, it has managed to mess up their best characters. For example:

MARIO! He's made a return from Super Mario 64! BUT WHAT HAS CHANGED! He can't jump very high! He can't punch! Paint kills him! He has a water-gun attached to his back! GASP! As you stand there watering a weed and killing it. PRAISE! As you turn off the console. SN|GGER! As you see someone picking it up out of the bargain bin.

And what about LINK! Back from the best game of all time, Ocarina of Time and the amazingly craptacular Majora's Mask! BUT WHAT IS NEW? He's 2D! The graphics have taken a turn for the worse! Cel-shading is crap and everyone told you so! He's lost all his fans! He's being laughed at! The game is great but nobody cares!

(and please don't tell me I've been biased again since I have played both games to death, and while I was impressed with Wind Waker (sn!ggers at the worst title since Attack of the Clones) but annoyed at the monotonuous Sunshine. SM64 beats it hands down)

Nintendo fails to realise you can't use the same tactics as you could 5-10 years ago. 5-10 years ago, kids played fun non-violent games and watched Arnie films for the violence (and back then more kids played than adults). Now Arnie is a Governor both kids and adults want violence from games and they won't get it from squirting weeds with Mario. They tend to veer towards the PS2 and the vastly superior GTA:VC.

So why does the PS2 do so well? It was released a year before the X-Box and Cube, giving it a distinct advantage and while it isn't the better console, the games certainly do appeal to the vast majority of the public. It is a case of following the crowd: if your mates have PS2s (which they do) then you get one to so you can get better than them at your favourite games and swap games too. It is a name people can trust too due to the fact the PS1, although dwarved by the N64, still proved to be the victor above it in the end.

I may have expressed my opinions here but the majority of it is actually public opinion and it is a feasible reason why PS2 is eating everyone up.

As for your question, X-Box, definately, although if I can sway you towards the PS2, then please reconsider (although many Nintendo fans hate Sony for defeating them at N64). Otherwise...

This is the hierachy of the consoles not by sales but in general.

1. Sony Playstation2
2. Microsoft Xbox
3. Nintendo Gamecube

I can't help but say that I thought sony had most of the market? Well I own all three the PS2(Till I sold it) Xbox,and Gamecube. THe gamecube doesn't have all kiddie games of course it will have some but let me give you a sample of some non kiddie games 1:Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance 2:Metroid Prime( Not bloody but it isn't kiddie) There are more,but you need to give it more time! I mean it isn't as old as the PS2. Xbox rules also. That is what I think.

[Heald]

And let me set the record straight for the...er...um...classy_cat thingy, yeh...

I don't actually care about violence in games (notes the only violent games in his collection are GTA:VC and MGS2) and I do prefer platformers and RPGs to shooters, but the majority don't. The beauty of videogames is genocide without the consequences (again that is the popular opinion and not my own).

Animal Crossing looks great, but as far as TWW and Sunshine go, they were real disapointments compared to their truely spectacular N64 counterparts. Perhaps everyone loved it, but then again, those 'everyone' have a Gamecube. I didn't mean to say TWW is a BAD game, it isn't, it is great, but compared to OoT and the screenshots of the awesome Link and Ganondorf pictures that were first released, it isn't spectacular.

I agree with point 4 but so does the PS2. And as for CCC's list:

1. Soul Calibur 2.
2. F-Zero GX.
3. Final Fantasy - Crystal Chronicles.
4. Sonic Heroes.
5. Billy Hatcher & The Giant Egg.
6. Prince of Persia - Sands of Time.
7. Sphinx.
8. Mario Kart 2.

1 - Multi-format, so that doesn't count, even if it does have the real Link, not the pissy-poor cel-shaded lemon.

2 - I've played it and again, the original was better. The sense of urgency and the thrill is gone now they've made it easier.

3 - I can't disagree with that.

4 - Multi-format.

5 - The hell?

6 - Multi-format.

7 - Multi-format, and crap (I have a demo of it)

8 - Looking to be a great game.

and in response to Crazy:

Mortal Kombat is multi-format, and is by no means the best beat-em-up.

Metroid Prime isn't really that violent. Sure you shoot things, but you're shooting purple aliens.

I think the Gamecube has had enough time. It is outselling the XBox and if it is doing that then it really has been out long enough to establish itself.

As for Mike: Price-lowering can be good for the consumer, but can be seen as an act of desperance of the company. Look at the Sega Dreamcast. In under a year it slipped from £300 to £50 (not $, sorry, I'm your good-ol-fashioned Brit!) which is roughly $400 (I think).

[Razola]

I don't see why people fall into the media hype of Wind Waker. They all ***** and moan about the graphics, and the game ends up being a feast for the eyes and ears. It was fun as hell and easily kicks the crao out of OoT. Though it still doesn;t top a Link to the Past, the best in the series.

[Mewfour]

Gamecube is failing mainly because it fails to answer to the demand: VIOLENCE IS GOOD. VIOLENCE IS FUN. You probably think that isn't true but look at the biggest selling games on the respective consoles: GTA:VC, GTA3, Halo, Timesplitters 2 and so on and so forth. Most gamers just want to pick up a gun and shoot someone, not roll around as Chuckles the Chimp collecting bananas in repetitive gameplay (sorry, that is a cynical view of Monkey Ball. I love it really but that is a view the non-believers take).

Most, you say? try a 30% margin. And Violence is fun? So I tried Dead to Rights a few months back, and aside from the super-bloody gunfights, it was just an average game. I was beginning to wonder if I should have just gotten a copy of Darkened Skye or not.


And frankly, it has managed to mess up their best characters. For example:

MARIO! He's made a return from Super Mario 64! BUT WHAT HAS CHANGED! He can't jump very high! He can't punch! Paint kills him! He has a water-gun attached to his back! GASP! As you stand there watering a weed and killing it. PRAISE! As you turn off the console. SN|GGER! As you see someone picking it up out of the bargain bin.

Well what the hell were you expecting? Grand Theft Mario?


And what about LINK! Back from the best game of all time, Ocarina of Time and the amazingly craptacular Majora's Mask! BUT WHAT IS NEW? He's 2D! The graphics have taken a turn for the worse! Cel-shading is crap and everyone told you so! He's lost all his fans! He's being laughed at! The game is great but nobody cares!

Graphics, is that all anyone ever cares about anymore? Regarless or not, Wind Waker was a huge sucess, even better than OoT. Still nowhere near as good as Link to the PAst, IMHO.


Nintendo fails to realise you can't use the same tactics as you could 5-10 years ago. 5-10 years ago, kids played fun non-violent games and watched Arnie films for the violence (and back then more kids played than adults). Now Arnie is a Governor both kids and adults want violence from games and they won't get it from squirting weeds with Mario. They tend to veer towards the PS2 and the vastly superior GTA:VC.

Uh, the "vastly superior" GTAVC? You claim not to be biased, and you're calling a crap-game like GTAVC vastly superior? No, I'm sorry, sure killing prostitutes and mowing down people in bullet-filled bloodbaths is all good fun, but doing so with a godawful engine just ain't gonna cut it.

And if video gaming is all about violence nowadays, then by that theory, Nintendo should have died YEARS ago.

[/quote]So why does the PS2 do so well? It was released a year before the X-Box and Cube, giving it a distinct advantage and while it isn't the better console, the games certainly do appeal to the vast majority of the public. It is a case of following the crowd: if your mates have PS2s (which they do) then you get one to so you can get better than them at your favourite games and swap games too. It is a name people can trust too due to the fact the PS1, although dwarved by the N64, still proved to be the victor above it in the end.

I may have expressed my opinions here but the majority of it is actually public opinion and it is a feasible reason why PS2 is eating everyone up.

As for your question, X-Box, definately, although if I can sway you towards the PS2, then please reconsider (although many Nintendo fans hate Sony for defeating them at N64). Otherwise...

This is the hierachy of the consoles not by sales but in general.

1. Sony Playstation2
2. Microsoft Xbox
3. Nintendo Gamecube[/quote]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but The Cube is still beating out the Xbox by 0.2 mil. worldwide. And while the Xbox sales have been going steady since, Cube sales have quadrupled since the price drop. Now keep in mind that the Dreamcast was selling for $50US and didn't scratch up a dime before it died, thus encouraging Sega to go 3rd party after 2 years without clearing a profit. Microsoft is content with the old mindless gore mindset you have, while Nintendo still makes actual games instead of slapping on the same engine with different mangled bodies.

*grabs a rubber stamp maked "ignorant fanboy"* *Smacks it on the poster's forehead*

Bottom line: Xbox ain't goin' nowhere fast. You're better off sticking with your Cube.

[PNT510]

If Xbox is going nowhere fast why do multiplatform games always sell better on XBox than they do on gamecube?

[Mewfour]

Becuase it the gameplay's all the same, you may as well get the one with the better graphics. Besides, most multiplatform liscenced games suck anyway. Enter the Matrix, anyone? Or how about that delightful Charlies Angles? Or what about Splinter Cell, the most overhyped mediocre game of the year? Or what about the Hulk? Or Spider-Man? It's the same lame crap that gets spread all over the market that if someone who's crazy/stupid enough to waste their money on, they may as well get all the eye candy they can get. Multiplatformers don't really have a great track record of being system sellers, you know.

[The Muffin Man]

Originally posted by PNT510
If Xbox is going nowhere fast why do multiplatform games always sell better on XBox than they do on gamecube?

Ignorant fanboy older brothers buy it for like 3 sports games. Then the younger sibling plays it, and mom refuses to buy a gamecube because they're "All the same"...

And Heald, don't ever claim you're unbiased after those posts...GTA:VC was crap. ALL the GTA's were boring and crappy after the first 10 minutes. Admit it. It's not vastly superior to any halfway decent games.

[Razola]

Originally posted by PNT510
If Xbox is going nowhere fast why do multiplatform games always sell better on XBox than they do on gamecube?

Because the Gamecube gets them six months later, after everyone has had a chance to get it on the Box or PS2.

[Razola]

TAG! You're it!


Originally posted by HealdPK
Okay, before I go into my contribution, I own a PS2 and my brother has a GameCube, so forgive me if I'm biased against the X-Box (or Gamecube for that matter)

Not the best start...


First of all, Microsoft is single-handedly killing the gaming industry. It is buying out companies like Rare and Rockstar(*) away from their home consoles because 'money talk and bulls**t walks' as we all know.

(*)They haven't bought out Rockstar as such, but they convinced them to break a contract with Sony in return for mega $$$ so Microsoft get GTA3 and GTA:VC.

The three system competition has helped the market a lot. It's now a several billion dollar industry because things like the Cube being slashed to $99 is spurring lots of sales. Consumers have diversity in software and competive prices. It's a very good time. And X-Box has purchased what, Rare? Your conspiracy theory means nothing.


That was probably biased, but nonetheless true.

No, it was just biased. And stupid.


Anyway, the XBox is the most powerful console and it has superb games such as Halo and some others which are all out on the PC and are far superior on the PC (thanks to my love of the mouse).

Hey, you enjoy playing Halo 2 in 2006.


Apart from that, multi-format titles build up the rest of their not so impressive arsenal. The reason the Xbox doesn't sell that well in both the East and West is because:

In the East: They POed the consumers by manufacturing a console which wasn't compact which, as we all should know, is what is big over there. Japanese LOVE compact things and HATE big bulky things.

This may be more because Japanese don't like the idea of an American console butting into their home turf. Hurts the local market by taking their yen to the US.


In the West: Their initial debut in the western market gave them a bad reputation. People laughed at the controller (and still do, suffice the new one) and frankly, not even Halo, which was the only must-have game for the console, save it in the early months. Sure it grew but it was cursed with a sorry debut. Even the Dreamcast got a better reception. Plus the fact the early consoles scratched discs.

Only bandwagon morons would laugh at the controller S. And the X-Box has lasted longer than the Dreamcast, rebounding from a rocky start (thanks to a larger library than you give it credit for). And the PS2 is more known for scratching discs.


Gamecube is failing mainly because it fails to answer to the demand: VIOLENCE IS GOOD. VIOLENCE IS FUN. You probably think that isn't true but look at the biggest selling games on the respective consoles: GTA:VC, GTA3, Halo, Timesplitters 2 and so on and so forth. Most gamers just want to pick up a gun and shoot someone, not roll around as Chuckles the Chimp collecting bananas in repetitive gameplay (sorry, that is a cynical view of Monkey Ball. I love it really but that is a view the non-believers take). And frankly, it has managed to mess up their best characters. For example:

MARIO! He's made a return from Super Mario 64! BUT WHAT HAS CHANGED! He can't jump very high! He can't punch! Paint kills him! He has a water-gun attached to his back! GASP! As you stand there watering a weed and killing it. PRAISE! As you turn off the console. SN|GGER! As you see someone picking it up out of the bargain bin.

I laugh at you, as you have obviously not played a very fine game. It was never meant to be revolutionary, just a solid evolution of Super Mario 64. And what has Mario done in the past? Jump on mushrooms and turtles. Fly with his winged cap...uh...right. Mario didn't change much at all. He stills fights silly enemies with silly attacks and he does a damn good job of it.


And what about LINK! Back from the best game of all time, Ocarina of Time and the amazingly craptacular Majora's Mask! BUT WHAT IS NEW? He's 2D! The graphics have taken a turn for the worse! Cel-shading is crap and everyone told you so! He's lost all his fans! He's being laughed at! The game is great but nobody cares!

Did you play Wind Waker? It's 3D, chuckles. You walk and jump in all directions. You judged a game by its (gorgeous) graphics alone and not it's gameplay. And it is the most pre-sold game ever. I doubt everyone would pay 50 just to get Ocarina of Time again. You are crap and I told you so.


(and please don't tell me I've been biased again since I have played both games to death, and while I was impressed with Wind Waker (sn!ggers at the worst title since Attack of the Clones) but annoyed at the monotonuous Sunshine. SM64 beats it hands down)


Maybe if you stop being biased (and laughably ignorant) then I'll stop reminding you of it.

[quote]Nintendo fails to realise you can't use the same tactics as you could 5-10 years ago. 5-10 years ago, kids played fun non-violent games and watched Arnie films for the violence (and back then more kids played than adults). Now Arnie is a Governor both kids and adults want violence from games and they won't get it from squirting weeds with Mario. They tend to veer towards the PS2 and the vastly superior GTA:VC.

Kids are still a big audience. That's why the GBA is doing so well. Simply put, to ignore such a large demographic is a poor poor business move.

[quote]So why does the PS2 do so well? It was released a year before the X-Box and Cube, giving it a distinct advantage and while it isn't the better console, the games certainly do appeal to the vast majority of the public. It is a case of following the crowd: if your mates have PS2s (which they do) then you get one to so you can get better than them at your favourite games and swap games too. It is a name people can trust too due to the fact the PS1, although dwarved by the N64, still proved to be the victor above it in the end.

The PS2 did well because the PS1 did well. Sony had a good track record. Nintendo had a very mediocre run with the N64 and the Sega track record was a mess. Based on past records, people decided to go for the PS2 (which actually had a fairly sub-par launch).


I may have expressed my opinions here but the majority of it is actually public opinion and it is a feasible reason why PS2 is eating everyone up.

As for your question, X-Box, definately, although if I can sway you towards the PS2, then please reconsider (although many Nintendo fans hate Sony for defeating them at N64). Otherwise...

The Gamecube has the best 1st party titles of all three. And it's $99 bucks. While the other systems DO have their merits, if you love Nintendo games, you can easily buy it and two games whereas you couldn't with the more expensive competitors.


This is the hierachy of the consoles not by sales but in general.

1. Sony Playstation2
2. Microsoft Xbox
3. Nintendo Gamecube

For the love of God, no more lists. They are pure opinion and serve no purpose but to merely show how big you are a fan of what.

[Heald]

Heh heh heh, the acclaimed King of Controversy steps in one more time to do what is necessary.

I never said I was unbiased (and if I did, it was an EXTREMELY bad typo) but I apologised for any biasedness. But that is enough of that:

Frankly, all I've heard from you lot is:

'oh wow, Wind Waker is amazing, kicks Ocarina's *** etc'

Well frankly, I am not surprised I got that response, but in my humble opinion, Ocarina was much more fun and is was fresh and interesting. As for the 2D remarks, that was in reference of the cel-shading. I really don't dig that. All the faces look like lemons, they really do. And if you say the graphics is all I care about again, I will laugh quite a lot, since I did say Ocarina was a lot more fresh than Wind Waker. Otherwise, the graphics just made me cringe everytime I saw 'Link's' face.

As Mewfour delightfully pointed out, multiformat licensed games ARE crap, in general. There are very few decent multi-format games (i.e. Soul Caliber, Timesplitters 2 etc)

As for Sunshine, I wasn't too impressed with that. I wasn't expecting Grand Theft Mario but I wasn't expecting to go around relying on some hose to save my life. It was an alright game, I suppose, but definately not as revolutionary as Super Mario 64.

And for all of you naysayers about Grand Theft Auto. It really doesn't matter what you say, but when both GTA3 and GTA:VC win Game of the Year over all other platforms, I think that cements it as those being great games.

(lies in wait for the expected OMG GOTY AWARDS ARE RIGGED! CR@P!111111!!!oneone!!!11111)

[Razola]

Originally posted by HealdPK
Heh heh heh, the acclaimed King of Controversy steps in one more time to do what is necessary.

Ooooooh, I like that. Has a nice ring to it.


Frankly, all I've heard from you lot is:

'oh wow, Wind Waker is amazing, kicks Ocarina's *** etc'

I only replied to what I saw, and I replied to more than just the Wind Waker comment. But all you're saying is "Toon Sahding is teh crap!11." You don't really attack the gameplay at all, which is the real meat of the game. Had you commented on the gameplay, I would be fine since that would hold more merit than the tired cell-shading rants.

[Mewfour]

And for all of you naysayers about Grand Theft Auto. It really doesn't matter what you say, but when both GTA3 and GTA:VC win Game of the Year over all other platforms, I think that cements it as those being great games.

GTA won best console game of the year? Hey, that's funny, I could have sworn that Splinter Cell won GOTY2002. Oh wait, that's right, it did. (http://www.planetgamecube.com/news.cfm?action=item&id=4020)

[edit: And Battlefield 1942 won PC GOTY, not GTA3]

Pfft, If you're going to brag about how much better the PS2 is, at least try to get your facts straight. Sheesh, fanboy...

[woz]

Originally posted by Mewfour

GTA won best console game of the year? Hey, that's funny, I could have sworn that Splinter Cell won GOTY2002. Oh wait, that's right, it did. (http://www.planetgamecube.com/news.cfm?action=item&id=4020)

[edit: And Battlefield 1942 won PC GOTY, not GTA3]

Pfft, If you're going to brag about how much better the PS2 is, at least try to get your facts straight. Sheesh, fanboy...

that list is hilarious. medal of honor for music composition and sound engineering? tekken 4 as the best fighter? metroid fusion as handheld game of the year? oh please. the only award i agree with on the list is the hall of fame award for yu suzuki.
you'd better lay off the fanboy stuff...you're one of the biggest, if not THE biggest nintendo fanboy here.

[Mewfour]

Originally posted by woz
you'd better lay off the fanboy stuff...you're one of the biggest, if not THE biggest nintendo fanboy here.

As long as I provide proof behind my statements, I can be as big a fanboy as I bloody well please.

[woz]

Originally posted by Mewfour
As long as I provide proof behind my statements, I can be as big a fanboy as I bloody well please.

those awards aren't called "THE official video games awards - anyone holding another ceremony's opinion is void; no-one may question our choices". they are far from official. hell, i could host my own damn video game award ceremony, have no-one turn up, vote superman 64 the greatest console game of all time, post it on the internet, flame anyone flaming superman 64, provide a link to backup my statement of superman 64 being the greatest console game of all time and apparently win the debate....even though it clearly isn't the greatest console game of all time and i clearly haven't won the debate at all.

[Mewfour]

Hm, well since the subject of GOTY was brought up by someone other than myself, don't get all pissy at me. But since the subject of GOTY was brought up, I felt neccesary to comment.

[Heald]

Originally posted by Raz

I only replied to what I saw, and I replied to more than just the Wind Waker comment. But all you're saying is "Toon Sahding is teh crap!11." You don't really attack the gameplay at all, which is the real meat of the game. Had you commented on the gameplay, I would be fine since that would hold more merit than the tired cell-shading rants. [/B]

I said Ocarina was fresh, fun and interesing (compared to the Wink Waker). If that is still referring to graphics...well, let graphics judge ALL!

Mewfour: I was talking about the BAFTAs Computer Game division, not some poxy unheard of event. The BAFTAs are the official say in the awards, after all.

[classy_cat18]

Someone please close this flame thread. I'm getting sick and tired of reading PK's opinions and I'm sure that I'm not the only one.

[woz]

Originally posted by classy_cat18
Someone please close this flame thread. I'm getting sick and tired of reading PK's opinions and I'm sure that I'm not the only one.

then don't click the topic; simple really. i also don't particularly read what he has to say but it is a message board and you have to put up with it from time to time.

[Heald]

classy_cat: So, what you are saying is you do not want any pro-PS2 propaganda? Well, since this is a discussion on consoles, I really do think that saying pro-PS2 comments is flaming is a rather bad angle to be coming from.

[The Muffin Man]

Originally posted by HealdPK
Heh heh heh, the acclaimed King of Controversy steps in one more time to do what is necessary.

I never said I was unbiased (and if I did, it was an EXTREMELY bad typo) but I apologised for any biasedness. But that is enough of that:

Frankly, all I've heard from you lot is:

'oh wow, Wind Waker is amazing, kicks Ocarina's *** etc'

Well frankly, I am not surprised I got that response, but in my humble opinion, Ocarina was much more fun and is was fresh and interesting. As for the 2D remarks, that was in reference of the cel-shading. I really don't dig that. All the faces look like lemons, they really do. And if you say the graphics is all I care about again, I will laugh quite a lot, since I did say Ocarina was a lot more fresh than Wind Waker. Otherwise, the graphics just made me cringe everytime I saw 'Link's' face.

~"OMG I HAT THE GRAPHIX TEY R SUK". Shut. The Hell. UP. Go on, tell me how the gameplay sucked, or the storyline. Hmm? What's that? You can't? Didn't think so. You claim the earlier of a series of games is fresher. To this, I put my head down and scream "DURR". You not once said gameplay was bad, or plot...So, are the gameplay and plot bad? If yes - you have a real reason. If no - the game does not suck. You lose.

As Mewfour delightfully pointed out, multiformat licensed games ARE crap, in general. There are very few decent multi-format games (i.e. Soul Caliber, Timesplitters 2 etc)

~So let's look at GCN's ****ty First-party titles. Shall we?

As for Sunshine, I wasn't too impressed with that. I wasn't expecting Grand Theft Mario but I wasn't expecting to go around relying on some hose to save my life. It was an alright game, I suppose, but definately not as revolutionary as Super Mario 64.

~'some hose'? It was a water-pack with multiple nozzles. It was an ingenious integration. It made puzzles more interesting.

And for all of you naysayers about Grand Theft Auto. It really doesn't matter what you say, but when both GTA3 and GTA:VC win Game of the Year over all other platforms, I think that cements it as those being great games.

~You said it yourself:
Most "gamers" just want to pick up a gun and shoot someone
Now, I've made the appropriate changes(leaving the entire paragraph the same)

(lies in wait for the expected OMG GOTY AWARDS ARE RIGGED! CR@P!111111!!!oneone!!!11111)

They are. They don't go by anything but total sales...Imagine you're some kid listening to rap and, oh look! A game where you live out your fantasy of shooting people and getting "mad bitches and hoes"! Oh look. About 30,000 copies sold in no time. Oh look! The sales are piling up! And bang, a bunch of morons made the game "OMG GAME OF THE YEAR"...

It's based on over-all sales, reviews, etc. Not factual playtime. I'd be surprised if any award judges PLAYED a goddamn game beyond Pacman.

[Razola]

Originally posted by Some People
Every stupid statements on awards said thus far.

Awards are inNO WAY AN EXCUSE TO JUDGE A GAME'S MERIT. This is simple the opinion of a group of a people. Yes, they are professionals in their field, but they are still opinions and cannot stand alone as an argument.


You know, I was originally going to put Raz's quote here and put a sensibly structured discussion to match his, since he could actually piece together an argument based on what has actually been posted, but after reading yours, you've only stuck in a couple of comments I've actually made among your 'interpretation' for what I've said. But I'm going to put a sensibly structured discussion anyway, since I'm not going to bow down to petty nonsense.

I try...I try.


I never said the gameplay sucked, not did I mention the storyline, so thank you for bringing that up. I compared the gameplay to an earlier in the series because it is usually a target of a sequel to beat its predecessor (which most games have been failing with as of late). You think I am stupid for using this as my argument? Here are some examples, although you may not agree since you have closed your mind, but for those who are actually willing to discuss this topic sensibly, here they are anyway:

A list...I just posted words here because I felt like.


Banjo-Tooie was far better than Banjo-Kazooie. Why? It added new moves, new characters, bigger worlds, more options, more playability, more interactivity and made you think the first game sucked which, considering it was the best platformer on the N64 until Banjo-Tooie, didn't.

Banjo-Tooie fell into the common trap of sequels: do what made the first game good while still being fresh at the same time. You are correct that Banjo-Tooie did have more characters. And moves. And endless crap to collect. Banjo-Tooie was too similar to Banjo-Kazooie that it wasn't a sequel but more like an expansion to the original. Had Tooie come out first it would have been the better game, but the same logic can be used to compare any old game to a new game. Bottom Line: I did every little thing you could do in Banjo-Tooie, but I barely went through all the levels in Banjo-Tooie because it was just more of what I had already done before[/b]. Good game? Of course. Better? No.


Vice City was better than GTA3 because it kept the award-winning gameplay but added more versatility, more vehicle options, better graphics, more fun, more side-missions, better longetivity and more freedom. Again, it made GTA3 look 'teh crap' in the words of Raz (although he was using that to refer to my view of TWW >_< )

Initially I loved Vice City, but it felled into the a similar trap as Banjo-Tooie. The game did add more but what was added fell short of the hype. Going inside buildings was limited and not fun and the flying/boating parts were not as well fleshed out as I would have preferred. But GTA's core gameplay was superb enough to make Vice City just as good and the improved elements pushed it over the top. I think Vice City is a worthy sequel, but a tad over-hyped.


Carmageddon II is better than Carmageddon, pretty much because Carmageddon was absolute crap (a useless argument, but true nonetheless).

Never played the games, so I won't say anything.


The Street Fighter games managed to evolve to be better and better by adding new characters, new options, better longetivity and improving the gameplay.

Capcom...oh boy. I firmly believe that Sports games took a page from Capcom. Capcom does the same thing as Madden or ESPN: take a franchise and release a sequel every 1-2 years making tiny changes and updates to the core gameplay. Might as well call it Street Fighter 1995 instead of Hyper Ultra Mega Glazed Edition. Don't believe me? Look at Mega Man Battle Network on the GBA. Two sequels already. Zero just got its first sequel this year as well. Capcom believes in slow evolution and I do not like it.


The Total War series keeps getting better and better by adding new settings plus adding to the interactivity, longetivity and graphics, plus numerous other options.

Never played it. No comment.


The Tony Hawk's series have kept gamers coming back by keeping what makes their games good but changing what you can do, adding to the tricks and making to better and more playable.

Played it very little, but I found it to be boring. But this is a matter of genre preference than poor design.


I could go on. I really could. But I think I have proved my point already. Sequels CAN be fresher and more interesting than a previous game.

Nothing much to say here...


I did not feel this with the Wind Waker? Why? Not because of the graphics (which I meant to be the minor fault of my argument but you have kept picking at this so I'm going to leave it for the meantime) but playing it really did feel like Ocarina of Time except with new enemies. Ocarina of Time was acclaimed as one of the best games of all time because it reinvented the RPG/Action Adventure genre and it (I think, but I might be wrong) received the highest amount of BAFTAs (5, but it might be 4 or 6, I'm not too sure) for any game on any console. But playing the Wind Waker felt like a toned down version of it, keeping the engine, yes, but didn't innovate it like other sequels. All I noticed was there was a lot more water this time round than in Ocarina of Time. This is my opinion, my opinion only and you won't change it just by yelling nonsensical rubbish at me.

As for the plot...well, I ain't a great plot guy. I don't really care about plot too much. I would if it was a film (since that is what you're paying attention to) but if you want a plot critic, I'm the wrong guy.

You say Ocarina is fresher than The Wind Waker.

I say that Ocarina is stale because it didn't change its gameplay from the A Link to the Past.

Not to assume things, but I bet you are saying "You say what!? But...OoT is in 3D!! That's...one more dimension. Dimensions are fresh!" But the fact of the matter is that once you come off your 3D high you see how the game is A Link to the Past...in 3D.

The basic game structure is the same...to a fault really. I still have to fine three colored rocks and then save three Maidens-er, I mean "Sages." Seven people I could care less about. Same difference.

Like all Zeldas, it's the same solve a puzzle in each room until you get item X. Item X will then be the predominant solution to all further puzzles until you kill the boss with it. How is that fresh? It's not like Link suddenly gained the gift of flight. Hell, jumping is automatic.

The Wind Waker threw me off. Same colored rocks...but only two dungeons for each!? Suddenly my familar pattern is thrown off it's rocker. Suddenly dungeons aren't the only requirement for the main quest. I'm hunting for vital items that don't require a freakin' dungeon or boss battle for each one. Casual sailing and hunting that allows me to appreciate the game world for once.

The graphics are just icing. That first boss battle? Magnificent.


As for your other comments, I was backing up Mewfour's comments that 3rd-person titles were crap, not making any reference to the Gamecube's first person titles. Some of them are great, such as Super Monkey Ball and Rogue Leader.

Third party games are vital, but the biggest grab is first party games. This is different from "exclusives" since now-a-days "exclusive" only means a year or even a few months. First Party will be for that system only; until something like Sega happens you'll never see it anywhere else.


And as for your Sunshine comments, you've corrected me. Mario has one of those super-soaker XG-2000s with multiple firing modes which he can use to solve puzzles attached to his back.

And it was very cool. It was like Mario 64 only I could do more. Felt like a virtual playground.

[Razola]

Testing...so far all my replies have come before PK's post, which was done before mine and should be above it...not below.

Odd.

[Heald]

Originally posted by The Muffin Man

They are. They don't go by anything but total sales...Imagine you're some kid listening to rap and, oh look! A game where you live out your fantasy of shooting people and getting "mad bitches and hoes"! Oh look. About 30,000 copies sold in no time. Oh look! The sales are piling up! And bang, a bunch of morons made the game "OMG GAME OF THE YEAR"...

It's based on over-all sales, reviews, etc. Not factual playtime. I'd be surprised if any award judges PLAYED a goddamn game beyond Pacman. [/B]

You've based this on complete (and false) speculation. Just as Film experts are chosen to nominate films and TV Experts are chosen to nominate TV shows, 'Interactive' Experts (as they are called, apparently) are chosen to nominate 'interactive' exhibits. The fact that ICO on PS2 was nominated (and yet got absolutely terrible sales) was a runner-up completely dismisses your 'theory' anyway.

It yet further backs up my comments that while the PS2 GTA games are matched in game prowess by ICO, which one outsold the other? That's right, the violent one. ICO was a beautiful, both with well-done cel-shading added with decent 3D effects, plus the innovative, original gameplay made it a game like no other.


Originally posted by The Muffin Man

"OMG I HAT THE GRAPHIX TEY R SUK". Shut. The Hell. UP. Go on, tell me how the gameplay sucked, or the storyline. Hmm? What's that? You can't? Didn't think so. You claim the earlier of a series of games is fresher. To this, I put my head down and scream "DURR". You not once said gameplay was bad, or plot...So, are the gameplay and plot bad? If yes - you have a real reason. If no - the game does not suck. You lose.[/B]

You know, I was originally going to put Raz's quote here and put a sensibly structured discussion to match his, since he could actually piece together an argument based on what has actually been posted, but after reading yours, you've only stuck in a couple of comments I've actually made among your 'interpretation' for what I've said.

But I'm going to put a sensibly structured discussion anyway, since I'm not going to bow down to petty nonsense.

I never said the gameplay sucked, not did I mention the storyline, so thank you for bringing that up. I compared the gameplay to an earlier in the series because it is usually a target of a sequel to beat its predecessor (which most games have been failing with as of late). You think I am stupid for using this as my argument? Here are some examples, although you may not agree since you have closed your mind, but for those who are actually willing to discuss this topic sensibly, here they are anyway:

Banjo-Tooie was far better than Banjo-Kazooie. Why? It added new moves, new characters, bigger worlds, more options, more playability, more interactivity and made you think the first game sucked which, considering it was the best platformer on the N64 until Banjo-Tooie, didn't.

Vice City was better than GTA3 because it kept the award-winning gameplay but added more versatility, more vehicle options, better graphics, more fun, more side-missions, better longetivity and more freedom. Again, it made GTA3 look 'teh crap' in the words of Raz (although he was using that to refer to my view of TWW >_< )

Carmageddon II is better than Carmageddon, pretty much because Carmageddon was absolute crap (a useless argument, but true nonetheless).

The Street Fighter games managed to evolve to be better and better by adding new characters, new options, better longetivity and improving the gameplay.

The Total War series keeps getting better and better by adding new settings plus adding to the interactivity, longetivity and graphics, plus numerous other options.

The Tony Hawk's series have kept gamers coming back by keeping what makes their games good but changing what you can do, adding to the tricks and making to better and more playable.

I could go on. I really could. But I think I have proved my point already. Sequels CAN be fresher and more interesting than a previous game.

I did not feel this with the Wind Waker? Why? Not because of the graphics (which I meant to be the minor fault of my argument but you have kept picking at this so I'm going to leave it for the meantime) but playing it really did feel like Ocarina of Time except with new enemies. Ocarina of Time was acclaimed as one of the best games of all time because it reinvented the RPG/Action Adventure genre and it (I think, but I might be wrong) received the highest amount of BAFTAs (5, but it might be 4 or 6, I'm not too sure) for any game on any console. But playing the Wind Waker felt like a toned down version of it, keeping the engine, yes, but didn't innovate it like other sequels. All I noticed was there was a lot more water this time round than in Ocarina of Time. This is my opinion, my opinion only and you won't change it just by yelling nonsensical rubbish at me.

As for the plot...well, I ain't a great plot guy. I don't really care about plot too much. I would if it was a film (since that is what you're paying attention to) but if you want a plot critic, I'm the wrong guy.

As for your other comments, I was backing up Mewfour's comments that 3rd-person titles were crap, not making any reference to the Gamecube's first person titles. Some of them are great, such as Super Monkey Ball and Rogue Leader.

And as for your Sunshine comments, you've corrected me. Mario has one of those super-soaker XG-2000s with multiple firing modes which he can use to solve puzzles attached to his back.

Well, that is enough for now. Until next time, PK out.

[Heald]

Hmm. odd. Had you not mentioned that you would pass yourself off as psychic.

On another note, I tend to take Raz's comments more light-hearted than the others for some reason. Maybe because he is actually putting up good discussion, or maybe I don't take him seriously due to his avatar, and I am scared that it is the second :o

[Zup]

Whoof. I'm about to enter (barely) into this for a sec.


I wholeheartedly agree with the notion that I'm a Nintendo Fanboy in that I love their games. Xbox doesn't have much that I like. Heck, I didn't like Metroid Prime for Pete's sake! I don't like shooters in general! To me, the only reason to get a PS2 is for RPGs. Which is a good reason.

I just wanted to let you know that Nintendo is spreading their wings to all genres with hits. Name a genre. RPG? Skies of Arcadia: Legends. Shooter? Metroid Prime. Puzzle? Erm, I'll have to get back to ya, lol.

Nonethefreakin'less, here's my story. I go into my nearby EB. In a display in the middle of the store there are preowned systems. About 6 or 7 Xboxes, 5 or 6 PS2s and 1 Gamecube. 1. Just 1. This says to me that people who buy Gamecubes keep them. This was proved by Babbages who had about 3 or 4 preowned Xboxes, 4 or 5 preowned PS2s and about 2 preowned Gamecubes.

Now, don't try flaming me and such. I will most likely not check back in the fact that I'm busy. If I do check back I'll reply again.

Good day to you all, and no hard feelings. This isn't something to care about. It's people's opinions.