Sonic Heros: What does everyone think?

[Mew Master]

Yeah, I'm opening this thread due to the fact that I have not yet gotten Sonic Heros (damn wal-mart) and I REALLY want this game. Since it's release this week, what do the fans of Sonic think of this game? Is it worth buying? Does it still fit into the Sonic Feel, that we all remember from our Genisis System?

From the clips and movies on the official site, this game does fill out all the requirements for fans. Esspecially the CG clips I've seen of Sonic jumping around rock pillars if very impressive to watch *watches the Movie-like Trailer for the game and drools*

When I played the Game, I got the feeling that the levels would be large and have several different routs, like SA2 at times. But I have a good feeling about this game and I hope I can get it soon.

But for those of you that do, please post your thoughts and comments here.

Later!

~Mew Master

[Kojiro]

Well I am getting it tonight, but I have to say from what I have heard from people who have played it.....


IT ROCKS! The team system is smoove, there is not alot of glitches, and the levels are longer.

Also the Music and VA are good, except Tails and mayby Charmy.

Also the graphics are good as well, and there are like 7 I think diffrent kinds of Multiplayer modes, but no co-op.

BTW just finsihed watching a clip of a Sonic X epis with Chotix in it, Espio can turn invisible, and Vector and Charmy were funny, and I am sure there game counterparts are funny too, like when Amy thinks Vector is asking him on a date (Form the game)

Edit: I am gonna play as Team Chaotix first! They are cool, funny, and there theme song is stuck in my head, part of it is in my sig.

[Chrisodeo]

In terms of graphics, Sonic Heroes has some of the best graphics I've seen, on any system. Talking graphics, the game makes Halo look like a two-year-old's stick figure. No glitches I've seen, or heard of. All the VA's are sweet (especially Espio's), though some get a little annoying after a while. Case in point: both Vector and Omega's B moves. Vector repeats some kind of roar, and Omega just says "destroy". Considering the number of enemies in the game, this can get a bit annoying. The gameplay is the best from Sonic Team since NiGHTS, imo. I love figuring out which char would be best for what. The only problem with the game so far is the levels. Some are downright mean. They're really no worse than most other Sonic levels, though. Ranks up with the highest of GC titles.

Edit: I bought it for the sheer fact that Chaotix chars were in it. Espio is t3h l33t n1nj4.

[Mew Master]

Well, I got my version today. So after I'm finished with dishes, and my step-dad is finished playing Medal of Honor: Frontline I'll plug it in and rip through it.

Officialy, I'll start with Team Sonic to start off, then go Dark, Chaotix, and finally Rose... Should take me about.... 7 hours to beat it all (FAKE ESTIMATE! WILL TAKE TWICE AS LONG WITH SONIC TEAM) O.o

Later!

~Mew Master

[Razola]

Sonic Heroes is looking more like a step up from the dismal SA1 and 2. Now it's all running levels, which is a serious improvement, but the camera is still an enemy worst than anything Robotnik can throw at you (perhaps he had a hand in it).

I may rent it, but if I'm going to buy Heroes, I have enough money to buy SSX3. And I would rather have SSX3.

[Mew Master]

After playing video games for more than twelve hours, I think it was a good idea to give myself a rest. (has already burned out his eyes @.@)

Now, for more than half of that time I was playing Sonic Heroes, so I have a few impresions:

1. This is possibly one of the more difficult Sonic Games I have played, besides Sonic 3 (when it was difficult. Damned Carnival Night Zone ACT 2 and the cursed barrel! >.<!!) Even with Sonic Team and three hours of getting used to the game controls and playing I was stuck for so long on ACT 8, that I stopped and played some of the other characters for a while.

2. It's so high-speed, that i kept missing parts of the Zone, like Rails and platforms. So yeah, the Camera work is still crappy, but I never noticed these problems on SA or SA2. O.o??

3. Some of the CG cut-scenes seem a bit fuzzy to me. Dunno why, but they do. *shrugs*

4. I love the return of the special stages, however I hate the way you have to gain acess to them. I keep losing the keys with Sonic Team, and every other team has gotten to the first Special Stage on ACT 1. O.o!!! WUT?!?!?!

5. Charmey's Voice is SO FREAKING ANNOYING!!! >.<!

Possibly this is the one Sonic Game that will take me over two weeks to beat. Like SA2:B, it may be a week before I get everthing, including all the Chaos Emeralds. Either way, I shall have fun with this game, even if it means burning out my retnas. @.@!!

Meh, my opinions thus far, Later all!

~Mew Master

[Powarun]

I rented the game, and I give it a thumbs down, although it was fun and everything, I fell through a wall twice, and the camera angles got a bit confusing.

[PNT510]

I played the Demo with the MK: DD!! bonus disc and it was okay. I'll wait for a price drop and pick up a used copy for my XBox in a few months.

[Razola]

Orginally posted by Gabe
Remember that scene in the Bourne Identity where Matt Damon is running up the stairs in the US embassy and there is that dude at the top and Matt sucker punches him square in the stones? That’s what Sonic Heroes is like. It’s a hard jab right to your Chao farm.

I think there should be some kind of Mascot welfare service for the videogame industry. You know, so that when there is evidence like this of abuse towards a mascot they can step in and remove the mascot. Maybe even place him with a foster company for a few years. Who knows, if we had a system like this maybe Lara Croft would still be alive today.

I just don’t understand the game industrie's fascination with 3D ****. The goddamn dimension has been around for ever but they act like they just ****ing discovered it. When humans started sculpting they didn’t give up painting. Obviously 2D graphics and game play were not an artistic choice 15 years ago. Sonic and his hyper fast game play were born out of necessity. That doesn’t mean it’s bad though. As soon as Sega was able to move Sonic into 3D they did, but what they don’t seem to understand is that the switch to 3D removed everything that made previous Sonic games great.

Okay Sega, we all know you can create lush 3D environments and detailed character models. How about now you prove you can still make a decent ****ing game that isn't a waste of my Goddmaned money.

Oh, and if the first Sonic game you ever played was Sonic Adventure your opinion is worthless. So don’t bother mailing me with some bull**** about how you actually like Heroes and it’s not as bad as I say.
I fully agree with this (found on Penny Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com), of course) and I hope Sega realizes that SOnic was not meant for 3D.

Is Sonic Heroes better than the woes of the Adventures series? Yes, but that's not saying a whole lot. The game starts out fun enough, but then quickly becomes little more than a interactive cut scene. Switching to other characters kills the speed and is fairly clumsy, and it's obvious Sega enjoys torturing us with the absolute crap camera.

At least you're going forward more often than not in this game, but adding at least a Mario Sunshine-esque camera would've helped. Is Sonic Team retarded? Because any intelligent person could figure out that people wanted a camera mapped to the second analog stick NOT A WORTHLESS FIRST PERSON VIEW.

Second needs to drop the stupid abilities of its poorly designed characters (only the members of Sonic Team and Shadow I like, the rest just suck in most aspects), bring it to 2D, and focus purely on SPEED. None of these stupid gimmicks that exist only to slow the game down and force more stupid characters on us (seriously, why the hell did those Chaotix rejects come back?)

Fortunately, those working on the GBA games are basically Sonic's life support. (I refuse to believe the same people who made the 3D Sonics could make these enjoyable 2D games) Sonic Battle is off-beat, but looks decent, and I'm sure Sonic Advance 3 may not surpass the old Sonic games, it'll still prove worthy enough to bear the franchise name.

I've always loved Sonic, but Sega needs to stop selling games based on Sonic and need to start selling them based on the gameplay that made him an icon.

[Master Rudy]

Well after playing the demo at EB Games I can't wait until I can get my hands on the full version. Out of the 3D Sonic games this one is the best one I've played even if it was only the demo. Now all we need is a 2D Sonic game on the next gen systems that goes back to the series roots.

[The Prophet]

I got it yesterday, and I beat Team Rose... but I doubt I'll finish any more. It's so HARD...

And I LIKE the Chaotix. Yeah, Charmy's voice is a bit irrtating, but he's not as bad as Cream and Big(actually, they're the only ones I have a problem with... well, Vector should've had a black voice actor). Vector's growling is a bit corny, but don't tell me you've never wanted to play as a ghetto crocodile from Brooklyn. And Espio's just plain cool. Unfortunately, they got stuck with the worst levels...

I'm perfectly fine with the 3D graphics. Sure, the camera stinks, but this has to reach speeds rivaling Sonic Advance 2. Besides, 3D's where the market's at these days. Old-school fanboys will just have to deal with it. (I thought people would LIKE the fact that Heroes seems more old-school then the two Adventures...)

...Although I DID like it better when Robotnik was the only human in the Sonicverse.

[Nall]

I beat the Last Story mode on Saturday, and I think it's a huge step up from Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. There aren't any more annoying hunting levels (except for a couple in the Chaotix story, but they're way better than the Knuckles/Rouge levels of yesteryear. It's not as good as the old 2D games, but I don't think it's necessarily terrible for what it is. I never had any problems landing on a rail O.o This game was focused a lot more on the gameplay than the previous two Adventures, which seemed more towards a story. The story in this game is mediocre until the end (except for some interesting twists during Sonic, Dark, and Chaotix's stories around the middle and end). Sure, it doesn't compare to the old games of yore, but it's still a blast, and it's loads better than the first two 3D games.

[Legends-Kuja]

Originally posted by Raz
I fully agree with this (found on Penny Arcade (http://www.penny-arcade.com), of course) and I hope Sega realizes that Sonic was not meant for 3D.

Is Sonic Heroes better than the woes of the Adventures series? Yes, but that's not saying a whole lot. The game starts out fun enough, but then quickly becomes little more than a interactive cut scene. Switching to other characters kills the speed and is fairly clumsy, and it's obvious Sega enjoys torturing us with the absolute crap camera.

At least you're going forward more often than not in this game, but adding at least a Mario Sunshine-esque camera would've helped. Is Sonic Team retarded? Because any intelligent person could figure out that people wanted a camera mapped to the second analog stick NOT A WORTHLESS FIRST PERSON VIEW.

Second needs to drop the stupid abilities of its poorly designed characters (only the members of Sonic Team and Shadow I like, the rest just suck in most aspects), bring it to 2D, and focus purely on SPEED. None of these stupid gimmicks that exist only to slow the game down and force more stupid characters on us (seriously, why the hell did those Chaotix rejects come back?)

Fortunately, those working on the GBA games are basically Sonic's life support. (I refuse to believe the same people who made the 3D Sonics could make these enjoyable 2D games) Sonic Battle is off-beat, but looks decent, and I'm sure Sonic Advance 3 may not surpass the old Sonic games, it'll still prove worthy enough to bear the franchise name.

I've always loved Sonic, but Sega needs to stop selling games based on Sonic and need to start selling them based on the gameplay that made him an icon.

I HAD ENOUGH.

Personally, I'm fed up of these morons who rant Sonic's not meant for 3-D!. IT'S CALLED EVOLUTION. MARIO survived evolution, why can't Sonic? There are plenty of people who like Sonic's new look, new style and gameplay, myself included. Although Eggman needs to stop jacking the damned camera, I liked his new style of 3-D gaming. And one reason the fat plumber always whooped Sonic in the gameplay department was because Sonic is TOO EASY. With amazing speed, you really can't do much, or can you? Sonic Team has used innovation (and god-awful voice acting and cheezy but addictive music) to remind us Sonic's adaptable and can do more than just run. Sonic advanced 2 had awesome speed, but aside from the world's evillest bosses and being unfamiliar with the stage, it was TOO EASY. Sonic 3 and Knuckles was AWESOME, with both speed and uncanny routes and puzzles to solve. But only that game posed any difficulty, which is why the Mario series always seemed to own it...

From what I hear, Sonic Heroes is a difficult game and that makes me happy. I can't assume that most of the old Sonic fanboys that hate it may be because this game is actually difficult outside the special stages. I think it's about time Sonic Team took this approach. It's the only chance they have in putting even a DENT on the plumber of fatness (I sould like Fawful don't I?). I may grow angry about these dumb ten-year-olds-that-need-a-swift-kick-to-the-balls that Egm interviewed that think gaming started with GTA III and FF7, but that's the price of evolution.

Now if only Sonic Team would listen and put Sonic and NiGHTS in a RESPECTABLE RPG. JOIN KINGDOM HEARTS IF YOU HAVE TO!

[VaporeAct]

To me this game is a small step for Sonic. They actually decided to add fur to the characters. Unfortunately for me, I'm stuck in the Haunted Mansion with Team Sonic. And YES the camera zones out too much. I haven't been able to try out any other teams yet. The bosses eventually get a little tricky and annoying ;-;. (glares at Egg Albatross) I like how the teams can interact (even though the only thing that they do is fight each other)

As for Eggman's new plan I, personally think HE'S WHACKED! He builds this huge fleet of air ships only to say that he has this 1 creature that could destroy the earth. (Overworked his plan if you ask me.)

Also as this has been said in this topic already, the bonus stages are nearly impossible to access. They should at least put this hidden key somewhere in the final area with the goal ring.

Still there is the old fashioned Team Blast. (Sadly I have only seen Team Sonic's and Team Chaotix's. I think that Team Dark's has something to do with E-123 (Omega) shooting bullets around in a circle.) I am still awaiting to see Team Roses's.

[The Prophet]

Originally posted by Legends-Kuja
Now if only Sonic Team would listen and put Sonic and NiGHTS in a RESPECTABLE RPG. JOIN KINGDOM HEARTS IF YOU HAVE TO! HELL YES. Personally, I'd like to see an action RPG that manages to preserve the speed and gameplay of Sonic(a union of Sonic Team and Square Enix.... hey, Square did it with Mario, why not Sonic?). Oh, yes, and keep it in 3D... that'll be the day I die of happiness.

But Sonic in KH would be nice. Very nice.

[Razola]

Originally posted by Legends-Kuja
I HAD ENOUGH.
Um...no you haven't! Or something.

[quote]Personally, I'm fed up of these morons who rant Sonic's not meant for 3-D!. IT'S CALLED EVOLUTION. MARIO survived evolution, why can't Sonic?
I'm fed up with people who think 3D is a step up from 2D, and thus games should always go to 3D ASAP. Viewtiful Joe proves that to be very wrong. Sonic does not fit in 3D, when all you do is go forward very fast, the extra dimension has very little use. Mario survived because he pioneered 3D platformers, and had one hell of a team behind him. Sonic Team is damn capable (the GBA Sonics have been good so far) but either they are doing something wrong or Sonic simply was meant for 2D.

And why does that upset you? So Sonic would be better off in 2D, why is that bad? Sonic is one of my favorite gaming characters. I want to see him in the games that made him good, not catering to what kids want these days.


There are plenty of people who like Sonic's new look, new style and gameplay, myself included. Although Eggman needs to stop jacking the damned camera, I liked his new style of 3-D gaming. And one reason the fat plumber always whooped Sonic in the gameplay department was because Sonic is TOO EASY. With amazing speed, you really can't do much, or can you? Sonic Team has used innovation (and god-awful voice acting and cheezy but addictive music) to remind us Sonic's adaptable and can do more than just run. Sonic advanced 2 had awesome speed, but aside from the world's evillest bosses and being unfamiliar with the stage, it was TOO EASY. Sonic 3 and Knuckles was AWESOME, with both speed and uncanny routes and puzzles to solve. But only that game posed any difficulty, which is why the Mario series always seemed to own it...
Sonic Advance 2 added the cool R button, which allowed you to do tricks to get to the "high road" of each level, or avoid a nasty pit. This added to the games difficulty.

But Sonic was never about being "hard." It was about jamming through a level as fast as you could. Bosses added some challenge (and I liked the Special Stages, which were tricky at times) but being "hard" is not why we play Video Games. They are supposed to be entertaining. Is searching for three pieces of a Chaos Emerald within 5 minutes (thank you, SA2) more challenging than running through Green Hill Zone? Sure? Is it fun? Hell no.


From what I hear, Sonic Heroes is a difficult game and that makes me happy. I can't assume that most of the old Sonic fanboys that hate it may be because this game is actually difficult outside the special stages. I think it's about time Sonic Team took this approach. It's the only chance they have in putting even a DENT on the plumber of fatness (I sould like Fawful don't I?). I may grow angry about these dumb ten-year-olds-that-need-a-swift-kick-to-the-balls that Egm interviewed that think gaming started with GTA III and FF7, but that's the price of evolution.
First off, I don't find Sonic Heroes to be that hard (granted, I have barely played my rental since moving on to better games like Beyond Good & Evil) and I wasn't enjoying myself at all while playing it. Sonic may be "harder," but it has obvious signs of sub-par development. After three games on the Cube, don't you think Sonic Team would have put camera control on the C stick?

[pb]
Now if only Sonic Team would listen and put Sonic and NiGHTS in a RESPECTABLE RPG. JOIN KINGDOM HEARTS IF YOU HAVE TO! [/B]
The hell? SOnic is a platforim character. I guess an offshoot would be fine (though if they can't get Sonic to work in his own genre, why venture out? While I'm on the subject, anyone want to play some Sonic Shuffle? Didn't think so.)

If Sonic Team made a well polished, 2D Sonic with some cool scoring system (based on speed, technique used to kills enemies) that's required to open hard levels, I'd buy it. As is, Sonic just isn't living up to my expectation. Sonic 1 ,2 and 3 always had several paths to explore (the basic "High Road, low road" deal) but the 3Ds make me fell very uninvolved. I just press forward, and even that better than the other crap they throw in to hide that fact (fetch quests, shooters, teams, etc).

[Mew Master]

Um.... does anyone remember a little game called Sonic 3/D Blast?

Personally, I don't see Sonic losing much from the speed aspect.

The Levels are long and very pleasing to the eye. However some of the Chaotix Levels are frustrating...

60 TORCHES?! AAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGG G!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-_-U Took me 30 minutes to get all 60.

Other than that, I finished the Game with Team Sonic, and have the last boss with Chaotix before I've beaten the game twice.

Of course one of the annoying things is... the Special Stages. First of all you have one chance, to get the key, beat the game without dying/getting hit/ect, and then snag the Emerald. Tiss all hard + annoying.

Oh well... I'll still keep at it.

Later.

~Mew Master

[Razola]

Originally posted by Mew Master
Um.... does anyone remember a little game called Sonic 3/D Blast?
You mean the crappy attempt to (and early warning sign that we shouldn't) put Sonic in 3D that wasn't even done by Sonic Team?

Yeah, I remember it. It sucked. A lot. So much it would make me pine for SA1 and SA2.

[Legends-Kuja]

Originally posted by Raz
I'm fed up with people who think 3D is a step up from 2D, and thus games should always go to 3D ASAP. Viewtiful Joe proves that to be very wrong. Sonic does not fit in 3D, when all you do is go forward very fast, the extra dimension has very little use. Mario survived because he pioneered 3D platformers, and had one hell of a team behind him. Sonic Team is damn capable (the GBA Sonics have been good so far) but either they are doing something wrong or Sonic simply was meant for 2D.

And why does that upset you? So Sonic would be better off in 2D, why is that bad? Sonic is one of my favorite gaming characters. I want to see him in the games that made him good, not catering to what kids want these days.

That's not my problem. I like 2-D Sonic. It's that I WANT TO SEE HIM DO MORE. After a while, all the 2-D Sonic's are essentially the same, while SA/SA2/SH were different yet very Sonic-like experiences altogether, although I wish they refined rather than annilalated (sp?) the exploration. The Adventures (and even the dreaded Archie) proved to me just like Mario, Sonic can tell a good story if given the chance.



Sonic Advance 2 added the cool R button, which allowed you to do tricks to get to the "high road" of each level, or avoid a nasty pit. This added to the games difficulty.

That was difficult?! HAAAAHAHAHA! Excuse my rudeness, but I hardly had difficulty with that at all. Personally, the most difficult 2-D was S3&K, when the Sandoplois Zone Act 2 could have you scrambling for time if you got lost.


But Sonic was never about being "hard." It was about jamming through a level as fast as you could. Bosses added some challenge (and I liked the Special Stages, which were tricky at times) but being "hard" is not why we play Video Games. They are supposed to be entertaining. Is searching for three pieces of a Chaos Emerald within 5 minutes (thank you, SA2) more challenging than running through Green Hill Zone? Sure? Is it fun? Hell no.

Personally, I prefer a challenge when I play, but fun counts too. I actually thought Security Hall was pretty damned fun with the time limit and all. Sonic Team could use some creative ruses if they wanted something like SA2 to be more fun. But to each his own...


First off, I don't find Sonic Heroes to be that hard (granted, I have barely played my rental since moving on to better games like Beyond Good & Evil) and I wasn't enjoying myself at all while playing it. Sonic may be "harder," but it has obvious signs of sub-par development. After three games on the Cube, don't you think Sonic Team would have put camera control on the C stick?

I'd have to agree with you there. I'm thinking if Eggman can't come up with more creative ways to annoy Sonic, he's always going to jack the camera.



[B]The hell? Sonic is a platform character. I guess an offshoot would be fine (though if they can't get Sonic to work in his own genre, why venture out? While I'm on the subject, anyone want to play some Sonic Shuffle? Didn't think so.)

Umm... So was the plumber of fatness. Then Square gave him an RPG. Then Nintendo kept going for offshoots and he won. Think Mario platforming alone made him popular? What about Super Smash Brothers?

I'll say it AGAIN: SONIC NEEDS AN RPG! Or anything good aside from an action/race game. Sonic Shuffle sucked, yes, but they had cool ideas (Void, to name one). All they really need is a good way to execute them, which they're having a problem with. (Hence why, the camera sucks) I bet a nice RPG with various Sonic characters (Sonic TEAM characters, like Vyse, NiGHTS, and the long forgotten Ristar) could make for a great game if they add some unique twists.


[B]If Sonic Team made a well polished, 2D Sonic with some cool scoring system (based on speed, technique used to kills enemies) that's required to open hard levels, I'd buy it. As is, Sonic just isn't living up to my expectation. Sonic 1 ,2 and 3 always had several paths to explore (the basic "High Road, low road" deal) but the 3Ds make me fell very uninvolved. I just press forward, and even that better than the other crap they throw in to hide that fact (fetch quests, shooters, teams, etc).

... umm... Didn't the orignial Sonic feel pretty much the same way? Hey, beating the crap out of unique Eggman machines sure beat having to kill Tails in twenty seconds, but for the most part, all you did in the first two was press forward...

I never said STOP 2-D, I'm saying DON'T STOP 3-D. All the people who hated certain aspects of the 3-d games complained louder than the ones that simply wanted refining. I bet if Sega refined exploration of Sa1, SA2 would own everything. And maybe they need to lay off the Sonic games for a while, make a new NiGHTS/Sonic Team RPG and kick 4kids sorry *** for messing up the music on Sonic X.

Oh, and I liked 3-D blast before I touched SA2. too bad for you.

[Mew Master]

Now I never thought Sonic was for an RPG. Granted Mario had that, but the plumber also had more characters than just random Badniks they put in the games.

Honestly, I felt that Sonic Adventure DX, felt more like an RPG than the other Games. With the looking for Emblems and then the Missions you have to complete, it felt more to me like an RPG.

And on the fact that Sonic 1-3 had larger levels. First off, Sonic 3 was the only one with huge expansive levels that threatened to make a person get lost and then run out of time. Actually Sonic 3&Knuckles was harder than the first three! Damned Death Egg Zone ACT 2.

Sonic 1 had basically a single way to get from Point A to Point B. Straight.

Sonic 2 had a slightly higher road to travel, (however you couldn't get to the higher road without Knuckles in several parts).

Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles where the best out of the Genisis classics. Large Levels, more than two ways to get from point A to Point B, and the Special Stages were a step up from Sonic 2.

And I liked Sonic 3/D Blast as well. It was easier to get the Chaos Emeralds, although the end of the game lacked Super Sonic and the Emeralds looked like Cogh Drops (as commented by one of my friends waaaaay back when I first got the game).

"Look! It's the Mighty Cough Drop Emeralds!"

And it didn't have a Time Limit to the levels.

Now, I like SA2. It's fun, fast and addictive. It's always fun to blast through the first stage with Sonic and just speed your way through and taking out Eneimes. It was alwasy fun.

But the glitch thing escapes me. The only games I remember w/glitches, were Sonic 2, 3 and Knuckles. You could be speeding along through Marble Hill Zone and then you'd disappear, the camera shows a wall blasting downward, and then it stops after a few turns, and you're stuck. You restart, and hopefully it doesn't happen to you again.

Actually Ice Cap, and Marble Hill were the glitchier of the 6 Zones in Sonic 3. I really didn't have that much of a problem with the others.

In any of the new games, I have never: Run through a wall, Died as a result of such, had Camera Angles screwing up on me.

But, these are just my experiences.

~Mew Master

[Razola]

Originally posted by Legends-Kuja
That's not my problem. I like 2-D Sonic. It's that I WANT TO SEE HIM DO MORE. After a while, all the 2-D Sonic's are essentially the same, while SA/SA2/SH were different yet very Sonic-like experiences altogether, although I wish they refined rather than annilalated (sp?) the exploration. The Adventures (and even the dreaded Archie) proved to me just like Mario, Sonic can tell a good story if given the chance.
I disagree. The 3D Sonics are not like Sonic at all. A shooter level? Fetching gem shards? No, that's not Sonic at all. And it's not like Sonic does an amazing amount more in the 3D games...nothing compelling anyway.


That was difficult?! HAAAAHAHAHA! Excuse my rudeness, but I hardly had difficulty with that at all. Personally, the most difficult 2-D was S3&K, when the Sandoplois Zone Act 2 could have you scrambling for time if you got lost.
Yeah, Sonic three was out when I was about under 10 (maybe younger) so while I can easily do it today, I found that to be difficult (well, compared to the rest of the game). I didn't find much else to be hard, except maybe the very final stage (where you had to kill Robotnik before you ran out of rings).


Personally, I prefer a challenge when I play, but fun counts too.
No, challenge counts too but fun is crucial. Fun may be derived from the challenge, but a game can be challenging and not fun at all. Games are entertainment first. Give me a fun but easy game over a challenging piece of crap.


I actually thought Security Hall was pretty damned fun with the time limit and all. Sonic Team could use some creative ruses if they wanted something like SA2 to be more fun. But to each his own...
No, Security Hall took the worst part of Sonic, endless running through a poorly designed stage looking for three objects, and added a time limit. Now it's tedium on a clock. Challenging? Sorta. It was mostly obnoxius, since speed plays little role in the fetch levels, and you basically have to search the X number of potential shard hiding places until you get the shards (the radar added some sense to the otherwise unlogical hiding places). Not fun.


Umm... So was the plumber of fatness. Then Square gave him an RPG. Then Nintendo kept going for offshoots and he won. Think Mario platforming alone made him popular? What about Super Smash Brothers?
By the time Square hooked up with Mario, the plumnber already had sucessful off-shoots like Mario Kart. Sonic has yet to have an off-shoot success like that. And Sonic is having a hard enough time within his own genre. I want him to be in a good platforming first.

Oh and Mario was a gaming legend by the time Smash came out. Geez, Mario was popular WAY before Smash.

[quote]I'll say it AGAIN: SONIC NEEDS AN RPG! Or anything good aside from an action/race game. Sonic Shuffle sucked, yes, but they had cool ideas (Void, to name one). All they really need is a good way to execute them, which they're having a problem with. (Hence why, the camera sucks) I bet a nice RPG with various Sonic characters (Sonic TEAM characters, like Vyse, NiGHTS, and the long forgotten Ristar) could make for a great game if they add some unique twists.
I'm sure it could be a good game; but almost any idea can work if done well.


... umm... Didn't the orignial Sonic feel pretty much the same way? Hey, beating the crap out of unique Eggman machines sure beat having to kill Tails in twenty seconds, but for the most part, all you did in the first two was press forward...
Most 2D Sonics have multiple pathways, which makes for a more involved experience. The 3D ones normally have just 1 path for Sonic to dash through, making the experience very passive for me.


I never said STOP 2-D, I'm saying DON'T STOP 3-D. All the people who hated certain aspects of the 3-d games complained louder than the ones that simply wanted refining. I bet if Sega refined exploration of Sa1, SA2 would own everything. And maybe they need to lay off the Sonic games for a while, make a new NiGHTS/Sonic Team RPG and kick 4kids sorry *** for messing up the music on Sonic X.
Sega needs to refine the speed, that's what Sonic is known for. If they want to try other ideas (rather than dilute them with speed segments) then they should try it in a spin-off title or a whole new franchise (I suggest new character, as I would fear a Rouge or Big game).


Oh, and I liked 3-D blast before I touched SA2. too bad for you.
Oh, and I hated 3D Blast before SA2 was even thought up. It wasn't even made by Sonic Team, for crying out loud (and Traveler's Tales doesn't have an awesome track record either).

[Chrisodeo]

The issue isn't whether Sonic should stay 2D or dip into 3D permanently, it's whether or not Sonic Heroes is worth playing. First, take the reasons why SA and SA2 sucked.

There were the Sonic/Shadow levels. While they were challenging puzzle-wise, there wasn't really much blasting through stuff at ultra-high speed. The other problem is the single path. Good for boss levels, bad for everywhere else. This is why the battle against Perfect Chaos was so cool; it had the speed, it had the excitement, and it made you forget all about the ugly purple cat standing on the sidelines. (but seriously folks, I've got nothing personal against him)

There were the search levels. I'm including Big's in this, simply because I don't want to give him his own category. Who knows what'll happen. Security Hall has got to be the worst excuse for a level in all of Sonicdom. The mere thought provokes memories of fury, and thus I won't discuss the matter further. Once you get the hang of Big's levels you can pass them off as a ho-hum thing. Not exactly challenging, but not that entertaining either. Why is he there even? Finally, Knux' levels. Start off incredibly difficult to do well, but practice makes them hopelessly menial. After you get the O2 Mask, everything just flows like the slow drip of water on a hot summer day. In other words: long, boring, something you just have to get through.

The shooter levels. Gamma's provided at least some hint of plot. As for Tails and Eggman, why don't they just make an airship and decimate anything in their way? Tails is too smart to charge in without some big weapon. Why couldn't he just use the Chaos Emerald he had to blow the shiitake out of the Ark? And Eggman - for one he's too lazy (or busy, you sympathizers) to do stuff himself. For two he's got tens of thousands of legions of troops. Why commit mass terrorism when you can march right up to the Town Hall and zap it to bits?



Now, look at Sonic Heroes.

1. While there is still much puzzle-solving, it's not nearly as slow or tedious as SA or SA2. And, at last, multiple paths return! You don't like using Tails? Use Sonic to wall-jump. Or Charmy? Well, Espio can jump quite a bit. You tend to get pushed around a bit, and that's a downside. You hop into a cannon, for instance. Which path you're aimed to depends on what character is leading. "Don't want to use Knuckles? Too bad, because on this path you have to," it seems to be saying. The levels are quite a bit longer, but they don't seem it because you're actually [i]doing something. While this is true, I absolutely hate- no, loathe, Tails' flying style. Must demolish Mystic Mansion.

2. There's still search levels, but they're optional. Required if you want to finish everything 100%, but nobody says you have to play the Chaotix levels. You couldn't just 'skip through' them in SA2, and for that reason SH is superior. By a very tiny bit. Plus more if you're a Big-hater.

3. No shooter levels! They were slow and life-metery, very unSonic. The closest thing to it in SH is Dark Team's power char. And he sucks. But, again, there are multiple paths. So you don't have to use a certain char all the time. I myself prefer Shadow for fighting off most enemies.

So there you have it. SH makes up for what the last two games were lacking in. It isn't perfect, but it's better. How much better is up to you.