Someone PLEASE tell me Duel Masters is NOT an anime...

[EVme15]

For all of you happy people who live in the US and get Cartoon Network (or get the US CN, whichever works) or if you've seen this elsewhere, I am here to ask a question and inform you who haven't seen it at the same time:

IS DUEL MASTERS AN ANIME?!

Honestly, is it? Because I'm really doubting it, that or the dub just sucks to high heaven (yes, they do, but this one's worse).

Basically: It's another franchised-based show. (From this point on I will call it neither anime nor cartoon). This seems like an exact parallel to the American Yu-Gi-Oh!: it's based around a card game. However, this one is completely around a card game: no Egypt, no magical items, no nothing. Just this kid and this game where freaky things happen for no apparent reason.

The reason I'm wondering about it being an anime is that it has the same style as an anime. However, there are a lot of things in it that act a whole lot like a cartoon would. Most notably are some of the puns. I don't think that these would be translations, or even edits. Oh, did I mention that almost all of the entire voice-acting cast seems to be completely new at that? It seems too cartoony to be an anime, yet to anime-ish to be a cartoon.

Which is it?

[HavoX]

Well... IMHO it is NOT a Yu-gi-oh rip-off

[Razola]

It's made by Wizards of the Coast (and AMERICAN company) and is, in my opinion, an attempt to cash in on Yu-Gi-Oh! and Pokemon's success.

It debuted first in Japan, which I think was to give it parallels to YGO and Pokemon.

Wizards...when will you just stick with Magic?

[Roarkiller]

What the... wizards makes CARTOONS?!?!?!

Its the end of the world i tell u. Either that of wizards is seriously running out of ideas in which to draw money from.

[RedStarWarrior]

I saw the commercial for in on Toonami and was like "WTF!?". I might watch it, but I don't think I will like it. Of course, I never know.

[EVme15]

And imagine, here I was thinking it was gonna be good. I saw the ad in the magazine and liked it. I saw the thing that said it was gonna be on CN and was like '*shrug* whatever'. I saw the promo on CN and it looked anime, so I was like 'Cool, this actually may only slighty suck'.

:rolleyes: Silly me.

[midnightangel]

As if I wanted to see another show with magic and monster cards.

I'll stick with Yu-Gi-Oh! thanks....:P

[Last Exile]

Geez, man. Wizards must be ticked that Yu-Gi-Oh is now catching all new trading card players. Making an anime does not help.

Furthermore, if they are making it, it ISN'T anime! Anime is animation made by the Japanese! If the Americans think they can rip the Japanese off, they can get stuffed. We already know Disney ripped off the Grimm Tales to the nth degree and are now going to hide behind eternal copyright to hide from the fact the Japanese are the kings of animation now.

Leave it to the experts, Wizards. :mad: Stay away from our anime.

[dragon684]

Well pojo is making a site for it.

I don't know. It looks alot like Yu-Gi-Oh! So it is probably a rip off. They even made a starter deck already. The story is a bit different altough it doesn't make sence. It is a card game but some people can summon the monsters and the magic in real life. Does this make them stronger?
and what if they use this power on people without it? They would probably freak out.

I don't know does this make sence to any of you. Atleast in Yu-Gi-Oh! the magic was for both players and it was only for people with mellenium items. Is Wizards so blind that they didn't notice they use holograms?

[Yoh Asakura]

Funny really since Wizards turned down YGO ;x

[The Muffin Man]

Originally posted by Citrus Crush Chikorita
Geez, man. Wizards must be ticked that Yu-Gi-Oh is now catching all new trading card players. Making an anime does not help.
~Why would they be? Magic is still more than any TCG could hope to be fanbase wise.

Furthermore, if they are making it, it ISN'T anime! Anime is animation made by the Japanese!
~Newsflash - Guess what? NO IT'S NOT. Anime is actually french I believe. It means animation. And it's more correctly a term for foreign animation, hence the term "JAPANESE anime"...

If the Americans think they can rip the Japanese off, they can get stuffed. We already know Disney ripped off the Grimm Tales to the nth degree and are now going to hide behind eternal copyright to hide from the fact the Japanese are the kings of animation now.
~No. For the love of god no. The "kings of animation" are always, and WILL always be guys like Tex Avery. The creators of some of the earliest cartoons, like Bugs Bunny and Porky Pig and Daffy Duck...

Leave it to the experts, Wizards. :mad: Stay away from our anime.

"Our" anime? Gee, I thought you were from...well, not Japan.

I'd find the maddox site with the japanese fanboy picture, but most likely I'd get attacked for posting it. Raz may know the one I'm talking about.

[Razola]

Amen to that, TMM:

-Anime is a style. While generally associated with the Japanese (since, duh, it originated there) that doesn't mean other countries aren't allowed to use it. If Japan wants to do a more American-styled cartoon, then by all means.

-America is the king of animation. Hell, Japan actually used Walt Disney as their inspiration. Walt Disney, Chuck Jones, Tex Avery, and the rest of the gang were geniuses ahead of their time. I'll take a solid Merry Melody over Speed Racer anyday.

I'm all for the fre exchange of ideas. The only reason I dislike this is because they are not trying to produce art. They want a cut of YGO's take. I'm all for a group of Americans who want to produce their own take on the art style.

I just don't think Wizards wants to make art, just money. Not like they need to: Magic is still very popular. I would wager it's making loads more than YGO.

[Sheila Rae]

Actually, the term anime is techinically any animation. Americans have just adopted the word to mean Japanese animation. So to Japanese people, anime could range from Spongebob to Disney movies to Love Hina. Just SYK.

And I never watch movies for the masses, so I could care less. =P

[The Muffin Man]

Back on subject, the Duel Masters game looks pretty fun, and is very similar to Magic. Tap mana to summon monsters, "tap" when they attack, sorcery cards, etc.

Of course it's an obvious attempt to cash off YGO. Duel Monsters - Duel MASTERS?

[EVme15]

Originally posted by Raz
-America is the king of animation. Hell, Japan actually used Walt Disney as their inspiration. Walt Disney, Chuck Jones, Tex Avery, and the rest of the gang were geniuses ahead of their time. I'll take a solid Merry Melody over Speed Racer anyday.

Just to point one little thing out. Anime came from manga. Early manga did not come from cartoons. Kimba the White Lion came before The Lion King. Watch the two and check for any parallels.

And the good thing about most anime is that it's in a series form. Not these 6-7 minute shorts that fit together like pieces of different puzzles. Depends really on personal preference.

(God, I really need to take a break from this Anime Lesson... *has been at it for over 8 hours now*)

[Razola]

Originally posted by The Muffin Man
Back on subject, the Duel Masters game looks pretty fun, and is very similar to Magic. Tap mana to summon monsters, "tap" when they attack, sorcery cards, etc.
Then why not just play...Magic? It's got a more dedicated staff behind it anyway. And better flavor to boot.

You think they could make the rip-off less obvious, though. At least make it Battle Masters or something.

[Red Angel]

As far as I know, Duel Masters was an independednt, non-Wizards Japanese TCG with quite a few simmularities to Magic. So, Wizards notices it, gets its collective shorts in a know, and threatens to sue. Long story short, Duel Masters is licenced, the lawsuit is dropped, and Wizards executives are bathing in solid gold coins and smoking fine cuban cigars rolled in $100 bills.

[The Muffin Man]

Originally posted by EVme15
Just to point one little thing out. Anime came from manga. Early manga did not come from cartoons. Kimba the White Lion came before The Lion King.
~And did Walt Disney have ANY hand in this?

Watch the two and check for any parallels.

And the good thing about most anime is that it's in a series form.
~There's alot more non-series animation I believe. The anime = animation...

Not these 6-7 minute shorts that fit together like pieces of different puzzles. Depends really on personal preference.

(God, I really need to take a break from this Anime Lesson... *has been at it for over 8 hours now*)

[dark_myuutwo]

IMO Disney would be the best for American animation, film-wise (most of their TV cartoons look horrible) but Japanese animation is much more crisp and, a lot of times, more detailed than any cheaply-made animated American show or film, whether it'd be film or TV show, because American children's TV shows look horribly "animated" and cheaply done, not to mention the bad cheap jokes and puns and cliches they put into their shows

'nuff said

[Animelee]

I think the reason why so many people think Japanese cartoons (I refuse to call it anime) is "cooler" than "crappy/kiddy" American cartoons is because of the blood/sex/swearing, etc. Fanservice, especially, draws people. Ever notice shows with fanservice have no substance, yet they make a lot of money? I do like a few Japanese cartoons, like Pokémon, Sonic X, Hikaru no Go, etc., because they don't rely on "mature" material to draw fans, but actual plot. There are some people I argue with on mIRC who download every Japanese cartoon, simply because they're JAPANESE! They don't even bother to watch them, to see if they're good or not. :rolleyes:

What makes a cartoon good is not its country of origin, but its substance. Compare Justice League or Batman The Animated Series to some Japanese cartoon like Chobits or Love Hina.

I do admit that The Lion King is a blatant ripoff of Kimba, and that Atlantis is a ripoff of Nadia, but, if it wasn't for Disney, Japanese cartoons wouldn't of existed, so it's a give-and-take situation, even though I do think that ripping off, in general, is low.

Anyways, on the subject of ripping off, I do think that Duel Masters is ripping off Yu-Gi-Oh! in so many ways, and it's also using the "coolness of Japan" to gain viewers, hence the Japanese letters all over the website. Sadly, kids are going to eat it up.

[Sheila Rae]

I think there would still be Japanese cartoons, but not what we know as "anime" but the Disney influence wouldn't have been there. I like Chobits's plot, and it's not because of the "maturity" factor, it's just an overall good plot, IMO. I'm the same way as you when it comes to a good plot or it's not being watched by me.

[Animelee]

Ah, I'm glad to hear someone agrees with me. I just don't like those harem-type fanservicey cartoon series, since there are so many, and I hate them all, heh.

[classy_cat18]

I don't like stuff like that, either. I stopped watching Tenchi Muyo! because I thought Ryoko didn't get what she deserved. :P

Personally, I like action with a plot. Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Outlaw Star, all that stuff. But this Duel Masters...I don't know about this Duel Masters, but I prefer Yu-Gi-Oh! And that main character sounded familiar. Probably like one of those boys from Beyblade.

[Razola]

Originally posted by Animelee
Ever notice shows with fanservice have no substance, yet they make a lot of money? I do like a few Japanese cartoons, like Pokémon, Sonic X, Hikaru no Go, etc., because they don't rely on "mature" material to draw fans, but actual plot.
You lost all points for saying pokemon has "plot."


What makes a cartoon good is not its country of origin, but its substance. Compare Justice League or Batman The Animated Series to some Japanese cartoon like Chobits or Love Hina.
Batman is good, but let's up the ante. Futurama vs. FLCL is truly a battle of titans in my opinion.


I do admit that The Lion King is a blatant ripoff of Kimba,
Why is it a rip-off? And it's really sad when the rip-off is much better.


and that Atlantis is a ripoff of Nadia
Atlantis was really "meh." So I have little expectation for Nadia.


but, if it wasn't for Disney, Japanese cartoons wouldn't of existed
They wouldn't be mainstream, anyway.

[Totodilemew]

Duel Masters is more popular than Yu-Gi-Oh in Japan at the moment. Also, the manga started before the anime. Guess what? They played Magic in the first 6 volumes of the manga, so it's not a rip off. The dub is bad, but you can't go around calling things ripoffs if you've never seen the originals.

[Animelee]

Originally posted by Raz
You lost all points for saying pokemon has "plot."


Batman is good, but let's up the ante. Futurama vs. FLCL is truly a battle of titans in my opinion.


Why is it a rip-off? And it's really sad when the rip-off is much better.


Atlantis was really "meh." So I have little expectation for Nadia.

They wouldn't be mainstream, anyway.

Sure, Pokémon doesn't win any points for having a "deep" plot, but there is one. :D It doesn't have to rely on blood or sex/fanservice to gain ratings, which is what I respect in a show. It beats having the main character failing his university exams, and having to live in a house with at least five other girls with different personalities, or the main character having to transform to beat a different bad guy every episode, or something.

I agree with you on the Futurama VS Fooly Cooly thing.

http://www.kimbawlion.com/rant2.htm <--- Check that out. I love The Lion King so much, but after reading that, I can't deny the fact that's it's a rip-off.

Meh, I agree with you on the movie, too. It's basically the same thing with Lion King VS Kimba, so: http://www.thesecretofbluewater.com/atlantis-i.htm

[Razola]

Kimba has crappy art, the Lion King is fantastic.

The saying is "Do it better or do something different." Disney did it better.

[Red Angel]

Originally posted by Animelee Sure, Pokémon doesn't win any points for having a "deep" plot, but there is one. :D

I'd just like to point out the obvious: EVERY story has a plot.

Plot: The pattern of events or main story in a narrative or drama.

Therefore, if Pokemon didn't have a plot, it's creators would have had to be taken out oan shot. Or, more likely, every critic on the planet would go: "OMG there's no plot! Wow! Revolutionary!" for no reason... and then it would fade into obscurity. </end rambling>


Originally posted by Animelee It doesn't have to rely on blood or sex/fanservice to gain ratings, which is what I respect in a show.

No, it relies on the third part of the less-than-holy trinity: marketing :D


Originally posted by Animelee It beats having the main character failing his university exams, and having to live in a house with at least five other girls with different personalities,

At least Love Hina is funny. Pokemon, although neat for the first 50 or so episodes, eventually boils down to "battle random trainer, capture random pokemon, rinse, repeat, insert overacted melodrama when appropriate"

Oh, and Animelee: that avatar causes me physical pain.

[Razola]

Pokemon quickly got into a rut, where episodes were basically an excuse to showcase a new pokemon. Ash & co. meet the pokemon and its trainer if it has one, Team Rocket tries to get Pikachu and/or the Pokemon of the Week, their scheme is foiled, and the episode ends with Ash & co. fixing whatever non-Team Rocket problem the Pokemon of the Week had.

Spice it up with heavy-handed morals and bad puns, and there's pokemon. It's on par with most children's programming, but it's crap for anyone above the age of 13 or who has the taste of a person that age.

[The Muffin Man]

Originally posted by Animelee
Sure, Pokémon doesn't win any points for having a "deep" plot, but there is one.
~RedAngel said it best.

:D It doesn't have to rely on blood or sex/fanservice
~Misty looks about 17. She's 12. May looks 19, she's 10 or so. They both appear in bikinis often. Also, there's Jessie, and Lorelei. And the Water Flowers of Cerulean. Now, what was that about no fanservice?

to gain ratings, which is what I respect in a show. It beats having the main character failing his university exams, and having to live in a house with at least five other girls with different personalities,
~He failed his Pokemon Tech exams and travels with 6 monsters and 2 people with different personalities...

or the main character having to transform to beat a different bad guy every episode, or something.
~Every episode? You apparently watched one episode of DBZ, which, I might add, has more plot than Pokemons ever heard of.

I agree with you on the Futurama VS Fooly Cooly thing.
~Haruko or Amy? Bender, or the bad-*** robot.

http://www.kimbawlion.com/rant2.htm <--- Check that out. I love The Lion King so much, but after reading that, I can't deny the fact that's it's a rip-off.
~Rip-off thats superior, apparently.

Meh, I agree with you on the movie, too. It's basically the same thing with Lion King VS Kimba, so: http://www.thesecretofbluewater.com/atlantis-i.htm
~I never saw Atlantis. So I can't really talk about it.

[Animelee]

Originally posted by Red Angel
I'd just like to point out the obvious: EVERY story has a plot.

Plot: The pattern of events or main story in a narrative or drama.

Therefore, if Pokemon didn't have a plot, it's creators would have had to be taken out oan shot. Or, more likely, every critic on the planet would go: "OMG there's no plot! Wow! Revolutionary!" for no reason... and then it would fade into obscurity. </end rambling>



No, it relies on the third part of the less-than-holy trinity: marketing :D



At least Love Hina is funny. Pokemon, although neat for the first 50 or so episodes, eventually boils down to "battle random trainer, capture random pokemon, rinse, repeat, insert overacted melodrama when appropriate"

Oh, and Animelee: that avatar causes me physical pain.

Sure, it relies on marketing to gain the best ratings on Saturday morning between boys 6-11 in America, and the best ratings between boys and girls 3-25 on Thursday nights in Japan, but which show doesn't? Love Hina started out as a comic book, right? Those comic books were marketed to male teens and young adults, and then the comic was turned into a cartoon, which meant the fanservice in the comics would come to life, which means more people would watch it. Sex sells, and isn't that a kind of way (marketing) to bring people in? Pokémon isn't the only show with its own merchandise, either. I've been to two anime conventions, and there are tons of Love Hina items.

Love Hina is funny if you like mindless innuendo and fanservice, yes. Otherwise, you sit in the corner of your friend's bedroom and play with your GBASP out of boredom for hours while everyone else watches that crap. @_@

As hard as it is to believe, Pokémon isn't always like that. I'd take your opinion seriously, but you're probably one of the people who stopped watching during the middle of Johto, and still think you know everything about Pokémon.

It's causing Juptor pain, too! I keep expecting his head to fall off, LOL.


Originally posted by Raz
Pokemon quickly got into a rut, where episodes were basically an excuse to showcase a new pokemon. Ash & co. meet the pokemon and its trainer if it has one, Team Rocket tries to get Pikachu and/or the Pokemon of the Week, their scheme is foiled, and the episode ends with Ash & co. fixing whatever non-Team Rocket problem the Pokemon of the Week had.

Spice it up with heavy-handed morals and bad puns, and there's pokemon. It's on par with most children's programming, but it's crap for anyone above the age of 13 or who has the taste of a person that age.

Sure, the show is kiddy, but it doesn't make it worse than a non-kiddy show. Since when did kiddy mean terrible? Taste is in the eye of the beholder, anyways.

Oh, and you're referring to the infamous Johto formula. You need some Advanced Generation to refresh your opinion on Pokémon. [/endorsing]

Mike's Comments (They Didn't Appear when I Hit the Quote Button)

Kasumi and Haruka (Misty 'n' May) both look ten-years-old to me, yo. I pick up my nine-year-old brother almost every day from school, and the little girls in his class look just like the girls from Pokémon. I know it's been a while since we were that age, but several news reports say that children are going through puberty, on average, at an earlier time than we did. They said most girls and boys start between nine and eleven. It's know it's sad, but it's true. I'll look for some articles to back up my statement, if you like.

Kanna (Lorellei) and Kasumi's sisters are adults, so of course they're going to look that way. Kanna just had big breasts, that's all. It's not like they jiggled or were shoved in Satoshi's (Ash) face, like what usually happens in fanservicey shows. Kasumi's sisters are synconized swimming performers, and they're Water-type Gym Leaders, so they're going to wear swimsuits, and not camping clothes, or something.

He failed exams? You mean that Kanto episode where he tried to pass the exams so he wouldn't have to participate in the Kanto League tournament? He was already travelling with friends then, and the reason why is Kasumi was following him for bike money (and they eventually became friends and she forgot), and Takeshi joined him because he wanted to see the world and become the best Breeder, so it's totally different than those harem-type anime.

Yep, I've watched every episode of Dragonball Z, in fact, but the plot isn't exactly complex. Big bad guy comes, fight, power up, fight again, bad guy gets stronger, etc. Sure, there is some non-fight-related plot, but that's usually a very small part of the show, either before they meet the big bad guy, or during a filler-type episode, in between sagas.

Bender, man. 8)

It's superior, and I love it so much, but it sucks that Disney had to rip-off the concept.

I saw a little of Atlantis, so same here, basically.

[Sheila Rae]

Originally posted by Raz
Kimba has crappy art, the Lion King is fantastic. There would be a good reason for that: Kimba was created over 20 years before Lion King was. With technology increasing at such a rapid rate in the past few decades, what do you frickin' expect?

[Animelee]

Kimba was made in 1963, and Lion King started production in mid-1991, so it's almost 30 years. :o The opening theme to Kimba was very excellent for its time, though. The animation is nice and fluid.

[Razola]

Originally posted by Sheila Rae
There would be a good reason for that: Kimba was created over 20 years before Lion King was. With technology increasing at such a rapid rate in the past few decades, what do you frickin' expect?
How can something that far apart be a rip-off then?

And it's not like Disney ever did something original. Do you think they invented Snow White? Beauty and the Beast? Aladin?

Get over it.

[The Muffin Man]

Originally posted by Animelee
Mike's Comments (They Didn't Appear when I Hit the Quote Button)

Kasumi and Haruka (Misty 'n' May) both look ten-years-old to me, yo. I pick up my nine-year-old brother almost every day from school, and the little girls in his class look just like the girls from Pokémon.
~Those girls have some freakishly huge breasts. And have you looked at Misty? Not in a perverted sorta way, but at a glance her body is a bit more curved than the average 10/12 yr old...

I know it's been a while since we were that age, but several news reports say that children are going through puberty, on average, at an earlier time than we did. They said most girls and boys start between nine and eleven. It's know it's sad, but it's true. I'll look for some articles to back up my statement, if you like.
~I believe you. I saw a girl(who looked about 13 - I was 16 or so at the time) who looked like she was about a big C...at 13. It's still rare to see a girl fill out at 10 though. Mays breasts would realistically be too big to be managable by the time she's done.

Kanna (Lorellei) and Kasumi's sisters are adults, so of course they're going to look that way. Kanna just had big breasts, that's all. It's not like they jiggled or were shoved in Satoshi's (Ash) face,
~Big breasts, lots of cleavage, scenes always seemed to center around them. Short skirt...As for Mistys sisters, fanservice isn't just nudity or jiggling boobs. It's anything that is physically attractive with little reason to look like that. I guess I can concede Mistys sisters, but Lorelei in the game had a reasonable length skirt and reasonably covering sweater(being an Ice-type trainer)

like what usually happens in fanservicey shows. Kasumi's sisters are synconized swimming performers, and they're Water-type Gym Leaders, so they're going to wear swimsuits, and not camping clothes, or something.

He failed exams? You mean that Kanto episode where he tried to pass the exams so he wouldn't have to participate in the Kanto League tournament? He was already travelling with friends then, and the reason why is Kasumi was following him for bike money (and they eventually became friends and she forgot), and Takeshi joined him because he wanted to see the world and become the best Breeder, so it's totally different than those harem-type anime.
~So? In those harem-type anime, those girls were there first. The guy is the one barging into their lives.

Yep, I've watched every episode of Dragonball Z, in fact, but the plot isn't exactly complex. Big bad guy comes, fight, power up, fight again, bad guy gets stronger, etc. Sure, there is some non-fight-related plot, but that's usually a very small part of the show, either before they meet the big bad guy, or during a filler-type episode, in between sagas.
~Better than Pokemon.

Bender, man. 8)
~Pssh. Zoidberg*points at avatar*

[/B]

Also, I forgot to state - James in Beauty and the Beach. Really creepy fanservice, but still.

[Sheila Rae]

Originally posted by Raz
How can something that far apart be a rip-off then?

And it's not like Disney ever did something original. Do you think they invented Snow White? Beauty and the Beast? Aladin?

Get over it. Really, what difference does it make? They ripped the storyline and the characters, plain and simple. The point is that Disney DID NOT own the rights to Kimba. They did for the aforementioned movies.

[Razola]

Originally posted by Sheila Rae
Really, what difference does it make? They ripped the storyline and the characters, plain and simple.
Oh yes, and the rest of the entertainment industry is just full of original concepts.


The point is that Disney DID NOT own the rights to Kimba. They did for the aforementioned movies.
No, it's just that copyright laws weren't around when the brothers Grimm were alive. It's called Public Domain. Disney also changed enough to avoid being sued, AND made it better to boot. If it sucked (like Atlantis) then I could understand. But the Lion King is a fine piece of work.

[Yoh Asakura]

GOOD LORD DOES THIS ANIME SUCK!

First episode was aired today on Uk T.v and it does indeed suck.

Can't go into major detail now since I have to go, but it does suck.