Anyone still play SSBM?

[-/Deathborn/-]

I mean,I'm just asking if anyone still plays SSBM,and who they use the most. I use Gannondorf the most,and sometimes Mr. G&W,Ice Climbers,Samus,and occasinaly Luigi.

[MToolen]

OY, how I love this game. I, almost 99% of the time, use Fox. He's just so fast that I can't readjust to other players' slowness.

[Crazy]

I use Link and Samus the most. This game rocks.

[Lord Necrodain]

I toy around with Bowser and Mewtwo from time to time, but when I'm playing seriously, for me it's Samus all the way.

SSBM was the first game I ever popped into my GameCube. 290 Trophies later, no regrets.

[Hikaru]

I went undefeated at Ubercon with Jigglypuff in front of Tycho from PA.

[Little_Pikachu]

Pikachu is my weapon of choice, naturally, but I have a hidden power in the art of Game and Watch :)

[GreenShirT]

We all just started playing this again after not playing for ages.

I go with Jigglypuff wearing the crown, aka Princess Simo: PH33R!!

[Yoh Asakura]

Pichu + Goggles > Pikachu

I haven't played the game in time, I used to use Link untill I opened Young Link ((I like his Fire arrows and his spin attack better then Link)).

Young Link in black and Kirby in black and white for me =]

[Razola]

Haven't played it in a year. It's all about Double Dash now.

[LumieroMaster]

mario and fox are my best. i just LOVE using mario's spike!

[classy_cat18]

Yoshi rocks. He's the only character I can use to beat my brother when he uses Fox. Pikachu's at a close second, tied with the Ice Climbers.

[The Muffin Man]

Originally posted by GreenShirT

We all just started playing this again after not playing for ages.

I go with Jigglypuff wearing the crown, aka Princess Simo: PH33R!!

Suzie and I have agreed that I would usurp you from the throne and become Queen with Jigglypuff.

[Strider]

Got it on the first day it was released, and two years later, I still play it on an almost regular basis. I just can't get tired of it.

For serious one on one matches, I use Falco, Marth, and Captain Falcon the most, while I use Dr. Mario and Game & Watch to a lesser extent. For free for alls, I would use just about any character, really.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

I ONLY use Pikachu, Zelda, Jigglypuff, Young Link, Pichu, Link, Kirby, and Mewtwo. I hate everyone else. Pikachu is my best and Jigglypuff is second, but I'm getting better with Jigglypuff. Advice for Jigglypuff players: Aerial back A is your friend. Pound is great too. You can combo Pound with Rest, but its risky. I stay in the air mostly and when someone gets close, I go crazy with aerial attacks. Jigglypuff has the best recovery and aerial game, so use that. The only time you should be on the ground for a while is to set up combos. With insane aerial game, Jigglypuff destroys fast-falling characters, especialy Fox and Falco.

For Pikachu, play keepaway and attack when its safe. Try to get as many hits as possible before running away. To edgeguard, use up smash, forward smash, aerial nuetral A, or aerial down A. Never charge into a group of opponents, its very stupid to do that with anyone.

Kirby is basicly like a less floaty Jigglypuff. Use Kirby similar to Jigglypuff, but not exactly. One of the best things about Kirby is that he can do a fast fall spike and get back to the edge. Jump out once, use aerial down A, and float back. Your foe may meteor cancel, but chances are the won't make it back. Use aerial up A often. Never use hammer except to edgeguard.

I'll post more later.

[PNT510]

I actually just played this game for the first time in months today. I more or less got owned, except for a few rounds when I played as Jigglypuff, then I did pretty decent.


I don't like the levels as much in the second game. They are to cramped it seems.

[Powarun]

Yeah, played it a few days ago, my favourite players are Link, Mewtwo and Ness. I think they toned Ness and Jigglypuff down abit, from their N64 counter parts, because I remember that I could easily take a team of 3 Links on with hard with Jigglypuff in N64, but now I can't.

[ChesterBLover]

I usually use Link, but I mess around with all the other characters when I get bored with him.....hehheh...my firend hates me when I use Mr. Game and Watch....his beepy sounds annoy her to death..

[Drago]

Ah yes, I indeed use Falco, and I'm hip to all this wave-dashing, and spiking, and combos, and such and such. Hip is such a lovely word.
This game remains the staple party game for my GC, what with the tournament allowing for more than four peeps and such, and it remains such over Double Dash (easier to have a couple fights, since we always go through every single track instead of certain ones), though I grow weary of playing against people who, liek, suck. When you're winning with three stock left over, you're getting bored.
They should've put Koopa Troopa in this game. Really.

[Aipom Of Doom]

yeah :O. I play 1P stadium mostly, so I use all of the characters. I would play vs. but there aren't enough people to battle =[.

HRC, BTT and MMM are fun >=].

[phaedrus]

hm....

Luigi is t3h 0 \/\/ /\/ @ g 3.
Link, Young Link, Samus, Marth, Mario are second best
Falco, Fox, Pikachu after that
Everyone else after them

That's basically it.

[The_Missing_Link]

I use Roy the most because of his decent power and speed. Then comes Zelda/Sheik and to a lesser extent, Fox, Falco and Captain Falcon

I just started playing it again after I saw this topic and I'm still trying to get all the trophies. Tough work though

[VaporeAct]

I was actually playing my 2 friends today. They were on team attack, no friendly fire, and had all the items. I pnwed then 3 out of 3 times. :D They were like "WHAT THE HELL!? WHICH ICE CLIMBER ARE YOU?" :yes: My best characters are Fox/Falco then Ice Climbers/Link/Pikachu/all the rest. I love playing Final Destination with no items. I currently have 292 trophies ( I wanna see Celebii ;-; )

[Musourenka]

My main characters:

Fox, because he's really, really fast (and my favorite character from the N64 version).

Marth, because he has speed, power, and range.

Pichu, because you get bragging rights for winning with him.

[stickachu]

My friends and I still play at least an hour a day... I've more or less played daily since the day it came out. During that time, my favorite character has changed a ton of times. Currently, I use Mario the most.

[Duo_Washu_III]

i think mtoolen uses fox too much...he's my bro. i like roy, and i FINALLY mastered the sword dance. i really like pichu,young link, shiek, zelda, and ganondorK(i mean dorf...yeah...). other than that, i'm happy that i beat my friend timmy (a master at n64 samus) with shiek. WOOHOO!

[The Muffin Man]

My top 3(from worst to best):
Pimpachu - Pikachu with green pimp hat. I may spam Thunder, but only if you're stupid enough to keep jumping over me.

Samus - Super Missiles are unmatched in amazingly fun annoyance. It's so fun to watch them try to absorb/deflect a weak shot then get hit by a follow up Missile...Or dodging the missile only to get blasted with a fully charged Cannon. ^^;; Oh and I can EASILY switch up to full-on Melee over ranged.

Jigglypuff - Fear. Roll-out is amazing and I've been able to handle it to the point of NOT MOVING. Also, Rest can be deadly if you're good at timing, and her other attacks(especially Pound) are quite effective if you're a skilled player. Don't underestimate her.



Also, I'm decent with Falco(been too long since I played him) and decent as Link, but I rarely play as Link. Too much of a noob character...

[DarkTemplarZ]

Marth is off the hizzle fishizle dizzle ^^ He's fast as hell, his range is incredible, and his regular A attack rocks. You don't wanna know how many times I got people trapped near a wall and just slashed them from about 50% damage to 300% and an auto kill just by hitting A repeatidly :)

[Ultimate Pikachu]

Originally posted by The_Missing_Link
I use Roy the most because of his decent power and speed.

Roy is too slow to use his fairly weak attacks. He's easy to combo. His only good attack is Counter, which isn't that good. He has too many counters because of his slowness.

[The_Missing_Link]

Originally posted by Ultimate Pikachu
Roy is too slow to use his fairly weak attacks. He's easy to combo. His only good attack is Counter, which isn't that good. He has too many counters because of his slowness.

Well, it makes no difference to me because I exploit his Flare Blade like h*ll and have a great time doing it

[The Muffin Man]

RAZ EDIT: I just got owned by my own stupidity. I hit edit instead of quote...

[Lezta]

Pikachu. Just... fear him dammit.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

Originally posted by The Muffin Man
For your sig - SSBM tip 373: Unless you're Kirby, don't ever jump OVER Pikachu. Find some way to go under or through.

Or Jigglypuff. Accualy, anyone can air dodge away. But if they're caught off guard or at the edge, it's over. Also, Marth and Roy can Counter, Mr. Game and Watch can use the bucket, Peach can use Toad, and Dr. Mario, Mario, Falco, Fox, and Zelda have reflecting moves. Ness can absorb it. Thunder is only for edgeguarding. Or are you talking about Up Smash:wave: . If Jigglypuff is fast enough, it can Rest, but I don't know anyone who can pull that off. Kirby's Stone is too slow and predictable. Pikachu could grab and start chain grabbing like mad, but I don't think Pikachu can chain grab Kirby, I don't fight him. You could always fit in an Up Smash.

[The Muffin Man]

Originally posted by Ultimate Pikachu
Or Jigglypuff.
~No.

Accualy, anyone can air dodge away.
~Thus leaving themselves falling right into an Up-A attack...

But if they're caught off guard or at the edge, it's over. Also, Marth and Roy can Counter,
~Not Thunder. It hits ABOVE and THROUGH.

Mr. Game and Watch can use the bucket, Peach can use Toad, and Dr. Mario, Mario, Falco, Fox, and Zelda have reflecting moves.
~Not for Thunder...

Ness can absorb it.
~No.

Thunder is only for edgeguarding.
~Don't ever use Pikachu again. You're apparently horrible.

Or are you talking about Up Smash:wave: . If Jigglypuff is fast enough, it can Rest, but I don't know anyone who can pull that off.
~6 times successfully for me.

Kirby's Stone is too slow and predictable.
~But drops fast and is invulnerable.

Pikachu could grab and start chain grabbing like mad, but I don't think Pikachu can chain grab Kirby, I don't fight him. You could always fit in an Up Smash.

Please don't ever play as Pikachu. In fact, stick to games like Barneys Hide and Seek. I'm sure it'll keep you from making too many mistakes.

[VirtualPlay]

SSBM was the one game I HAD to get when I (finally) got my GCN last Christmas. I have somewhere between 280 and 290 trophies...286 if I remember correctly.

Best characters? Well, let's see:

Pikachu: One of the faster characters. He has an 00ber up-(B) for recovery/attacking, Thunder is good for juggling stupid foes and computers (or getting that last hit in), nice group attack in his Down-(A). His only real drawback is his (B) is a bit weak.
Kirby: Best character for recovery. Five puffs (not counting his jump) and a very high Up-(B). Inhale is quite useful against some characters, but not all the time. Brick makes him immune to anything but grabs.
Link: Very well-rounded. Bow, Boomerang, and Bomb (BBB) are all very useful for keeping the foe from reaching you, but his sword techs, including a double smash attack, keep even close enemies at [Great] bay.
Mewtwo: Mostly for 1P games. His up-throw is one of the highest-reaching in the game (Jigglypuff is the other), his (B) attack is like Samus's, Disable and Confusion are useful for a short-time upper hand. Not to mention his mid-air jump is pretty distanced, as is his Up-(B).
Jigglypuff: A killer in 1P, against one foe, or on evenly matched teams. Sing is best for team matches (put the enemy next to a fully-charging Roy, anyone?), Rest is good against one foe or if you have someone to cover you, and Rollout is powerful when charged properly. One of the highest up-throws (see Mewtwo). Only drawback is no Up-(B) recovery.

I use others on occasion, but I like those most of all.

[Shadow Djinn]

Originally posted by Ultimate Pikachu
Roy is too slow to use his fairly weak attacks. He's easy to combo. His only good attack is Counter, which isn't that good. He has too many counters because of his slowness.

Roy is not that slow. Play lightning mode with Roy. It's not slow. Roy is fairly good, but it's not like he sucks or anything. Jigglypuff and Pikachu aren't excactly the best.

Anyway, I love Marth and Roy. Usually with Roy I wait till the opponent comes and slash or just abuse the C stick button when I feel like it....durin Vs Mode of course. Marth I like to dash and slash+dodge.

I like using Kirby's hammer and stone...The enemies are always slwo enough not to dodge it...x_o Air Cutter is pretty useful in
MY opinion, but I wish it'd go a bit more slanted and not so straight up. Inhale is pretty useful for Mewtwo's Shadow Ball and Samus..

I don't find Jigglypuff and Pikachu that great really...Jigglypuff seems so...bouncy. Pikachu is ok, but I prefer Pichu+Blue costume. I just like usin' Skull Bash. =}

[phaedrus]

I lost all my SSBM data so I started over...

At least I've already got Falco and Luigi back.

Luigi rocks.
Did I mention Luigi rocks?
Remember folks, Luigi rocks.

C stick, by the way, I don't like it. A button all the way...:D

I'm good with all the chars except Bowser....=)

But I really stand out with a few.....

I know this would take a REALLY long time, but it'd be INSANE (cool, not psycho) if someone built a SSBM engine into a server and we could all massacre each other online....:D

If that happens you might want to watch your back....:D you just might get :D:D:D


Originally posted by DarkTemplarZ
Marth is off the hizzle fishizle dizzle ^^ He's fast as hell, his range is incredible, and his regular A attack rocks. You don't wanna know how many times I got people trapped near a wall and just slashed them from about 50% damage to 300% and an auto kill just by hitting A repeatidly :)

THE FOSHIZLE MY NIZZLE ON ROY AND MARTH: As you guys most likely know, Roy and Marth have differences that are easy and difficult to tell.

You guys can easily tell their B attacks are very different; Marth's only shatters shields-Roy's gives a OHKO (w/ shield, haven't tried it)....But there's another thing, and I've tried and proven this to be true. Roy is the close-combat expert of the two. With Roy, you want to strike your enemy with your blade as close to the hilt as possible to guarantee the most damage. With Marth, it's the other way. You want to strike the foe with your blade as close to the tip as possible. This way, you inflict maximum damage to your opponent.

I like Marth the best. Range>j00. :P

RAZ EDIT: Don't double post.

[Hikaru]

Ness can absorb thunder, and if you're playing against a veteran, Kirby in stone form is vulnerable.

[Musourenka]

Fox reflector also defends against Thunder (doesn't reflect, though).

[Serpentra]

Originally posted by Hikaru
Ness can absorb thunder, and if you're playing against a veteran, Kirby in stone form is vulnerable.

Yup...I've absorbed many a Thunder and thrown many a bomb, as well as dozens of other attacks at Kirby's rock form....I've found out the hard way that Kirby's underside in stone-form is vulnerable...:p

Anyway, I love playing with either Marth, Young Link, Samus, Kirby(sometimes) and Dr. Mario....my friend ALWAYS plays as Samus....he's so cheap with the missiles, but I can still best him:p

[The Muffin Man]

No, you cannot reflect or Absorb Thunder. I know Pikachu better than anyone in this thread. I've seen people attempt to Reflect/Absorb it and get blasted.

[Hikaru]

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/gamecube/file/super_smash_bros_melee_ness_b.txt

Ness uses his PK
(Psychic-Kinetic) powers to blast the opponent with various energy
attacks. The exception to this is the PK Magnet. When Ness uses the PK
Magnet, a PK sphere materializes around Ness. This sphere pulls in any
energy attacks that are shot towards Ness and converts them to life
energy, removing % damage from Ness. For example, if Mario shoots a
fireball at Ness that would normally do 7% damage, and Ness has the PK
Magnet up, the Magnet will pull in the fireball and remove 7% damage
from Ness' total. Ness can never go below 0% damage, but while you have
0% damage if someone shoots an energy projectile at you, you might as
well absorb it rather than taking the hit. The PK Magnet can absorb
almost all energy attacks-Fireballs, Ray Gun shots, Super Scope Shots,
Samus Charge Shots, Mewtwo Shadowballs, Samus' Flamethrower, Fire
Flower attacks, Charizard/Ho-Oh/Entei Flamethrower attacks, Raikou and
Zapdos Electric Attacks, Pichu and Pikachu Thunder attacks, and so on.
Ness is light, so restoring health to him is of vital importance. This
move required precise timing and should be learned and mastered, and
used as often as possible. However, you must be sure you ONLY try to
absorb energy attacks. You can *NOT* use the PK Magnet to absorb non-
energy attacks such as mines, missiles, darts, Bob-Ombs, bombs, arrows,
boomerangs, Smash attacks, Screws, Unowns, Blastoises, Snorlaxes, or
Porygon-2's. Don't even try it.

[The Muffin Man]

Notice the lack of mention for Thunder JOLT?

[Hikaru]

You asked for Thunder itself, no? Thunder Jolt is also absorbed by Ness.

[The Muffin Man]

I KNOW Thunderjolt is, but as far as I know, Thunder damages Ness. So unless he absorbs it, but gets damaged by the strike-through, he doesn't "absorb" by any means.

[Hikaru]

I just tested it. Ness only takes damage when he's on the ground next to Pikachu, then he cannot absorb it, and is damaged by the force of the shock on the ground, or some ****.

[Musourenka]

Originally posted by Hikaru
I just tested it. Ness only takes damage when he's on the ground next to Pikachu, then he cannot absorb it, and is damaged by the force of the shock on the ground, or some ****.

Same with Fox Reflector -- You have to use Reflect against the actual thunderbolt; You can't use it to defend against a Thundered Pikachu.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

Originally posted by The Muffin Man
Please don't ever play as Pikachu. In fact, stick to games like Barneys Hide and Seek. I'm sure it'll keep you from making too many mistakes.

No, you need to stick to those games. You can't tell someone they're horrible with a character just because of one move that isn't even that character's best move. Thunder is not a good attack. Pikachu is my best character, and I know its strengths and weaknesses. And besides, anyone good would not spam Thunder. Up Smash is way better. On the Air Dodge thing, I meant if you were close enough to the ground. You wouldn't get comboed from Up Smash, so it doesn't matter much. Kirby's Stone would not work against a veteran player, it would be dodged and you would be grabbed and at your opponent's mercy. Different people have different ways to use different characters. I use keepaway, I think you spam Thunder from what you've been saying.

Get into a serious match and/or listen to what the other people on this thread have to say.

[Shadow Djinn]

Originally posted by Ultimate Pikachu
No, you need to stick to those games. You can't tell someone they're horrible with a character just because of one move that isn't even that character's best move. Thunder is not a good attack. Pikachu is my best character, and I know its strengths and weaknesses. And besides, anyone good would not spam Thunder. Up Smash is way better. On the Air Dodge thing, I meant if you were close enough to the ground. You wouldn't get comboed from Up Smash, so it doesn't matter much. Kirby's Stone would not work against a veteran player, it would be dodged and you would be grabbed and at your opponent's mercy. Different people have different ways to use different characters. I use keepaway, I think you spam Thunder from what you've been saying.

Get into a serious match and/or listen to what the other people on this thread have to say.


....In your opinion. If you Air Smashed while Kirby is falling as a stone-you're damaged. Thunder may be useful for one player but not for another. Or maybe you don't know how to use it properly? Keeping away is pretty cowardly, IMO. Sides, everybody has strengthes and weaknesses with even the same character, no?

And yes, Ness CAN block Pika's thunder. Tried it.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

Originally posted by Shadow Djinn
....In your opinion. If you Air Smashed while Kirby is falling as a stone-you're damaged. Thunder may be useful for one player but not for another. Or maybe you don't know how to use it properly? Keeping away is pretty cowardly, IMO. Sides, everybody has strengthes and weaknesses with even the same character, no?

And yes, Ness CAN block Pika's thunder. Tried it.

You're supposed to smash Kirby before he fully transforms. If he's high in the air, you could get away and grab him. You shouldn't be using Thunder like that against a good player anyway, and any good player using Kirby would not use Stone like that either. I know how to use Thunder properly, and it is not meant to be abused. Keeping away is essential for most light characters. Better safe than sorry. Keeping away and taking your time is smarter than just rushing in there and being destroyed. Your opponent should try to follow you and you should get as many hits in as possible before they have a chance to attack. It's called strategy. I've learned the hard way that keeping away is best for Pikachu Everyone does have strengths and weaknesses for the same character, but there are strengths and weaknesses stay the same no matter who's using that character. For instance, Jigglypuff is light, so you should not let your foe hit you.

[The Muffin Man]

Originally posted by Shadow Djinn
....In your opinion. If you Air Smashed while Kirby is falling as a stone-you're damaged. Thunder may be useful for one player but not for another. Or maybe you don't know how to use it properly? Keeping away is pretty cowardly, IMO. Sides, everybody has strengthes and weaknesses with even the same character, no?

And yes, Ness CAN block Pika's thunder. Tried it.

Everyone can BLOCK the Thunder. It's just the Strike-through does damage anyway so I doubt it absorbs any worthwhile HP.

And a skilled player can hit Kirby even in stone form/mid transformation.

A GOOD player will get the hell outta the way and be prepared to hurl him when he lands.


No, you need to stick to those games. You can't tell someone they're horrible with a character just because of one move that isn't even that character's best move. Thunder is not a good attack. Pikachu is my best character, and I know its strengths and weaknesses. And besides, anyone good would not spam Thunder. Up Smash is way better. On the Air Dodge thing, I meant if you were close enough to the ground. You wouldn't get comboed from Up Smash, so it doesn't matter much. Kirby's Stone would not work against a veteran player, it would be dodged and you would be grabbed and at your opponent's mercy. Different people have different ways to use different characters. I use keepaway, I think you spam Thunder from what you've been saying.
Actually, keeping away is cowardly and will cost you friends, and usually the match. There's one kid where we play that all he does is hide, and take shots when he has to get through. We can't stand it. He rarely wins, but if he does it's because he avoided conflict and let the good players thin out their own ranks...It's not a strategy, it's called "hiding". There's also a penalty for it(Opportunist. You rarely get "in the fray" and "opportunist" together).

I use Pikachu as he was intended - Fast, strong hits to keep my opponent too close to get a reliable strike in OR keep them from getting to close to hit me(My friends play with mainly taller characters: Cap.Falcon, Ganon, Link...so ducking keeps me safe). but I also utilize Thunder(spamming it only for fun/desperation) and really only abuse his A button attacks.

as for Jigglypuff, if you're really good, it's a good strategy to get close and right in the fray. Most players will run for their lives if they know he can Rest them off the platform easily, so you'll have them trying to keep you at bay rather than fling you.

[Razola]

Kirby's stone attack only works if they are completey absorbed in something else. Otherwise they will roll out of your way and then grab you (you can be grabbed while in stone form). In most cases, it is asking for a beating.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

Originally posted by The Muffin Man
Everyone can BLOCK the Thunder. It's just the Strike-through does damage anyway so I doubt it absorbs any worthwhile HP.

And a skilled player can hit Kirby even in stone form/mid transformation.

A GOOD player will get the hell outta the way and be prepared to hurl him when he lands.


Actually, keeping away is cowardly and will cost you friends, and usually the match. There's one kid where we play that all he does is hide, and take shots when he has to get through. We can't stand it. He rarely wins, but if he does it's because he avoided conflict and let the good players thin out their own ranks...It's not a strategy, it's called "hiding". There's also a penalty for it(Opportunist. You rarely get "in the fray" and "opportunist" together).

I use Pikachu as he was intended - Fast, strong hits to keep my opponent too close to get a reliable strike in OR keep them from getting to close to hit me(My friends play with mainly taller characters: Cap.Falcon, Ganon, Link...so ducking keeps me safe). but I also utilize Thunder(spamming it only for fun/desperation) and really only abuse his A button attacks.

as for Jigglypuff, if you're really good, it's a good strategy to get close and right in the fray. Most players will run for their lives if they know he can Rest them off the platform easily, so you'll have them trying to keep you at bay rather than fling you.

I don't always keep away. It depends on who I'm fighting and how much damage everyone has. If it's against someone extremely slow like Bowser I just rush in because they most likely won't get a hit in. If its someone fast, then I wait for the chance to strike and get as many hits in and try to K.O. them quick. I can last a long time with anyone besides Bowser (too slow to hit back or get away, you have to get really lucky to get tons of hits in before you're blasted away and I hate his guts) or Roy (I hate his guts and I love seeing him get flung around). Also, no one cares about the bonuses, they don't matter much. Besides, I don't stay away that long.

You don't know if that was the way Pikachu was intended to be used. Besides, there is no "intended way" to use someone, but there are some that are not meant to be used, like with Pichu, you shouldn't spam attacks that hurt it.

You shouldn't get into the fray with Jigglypuff against anyone. Some people won't let you close enough. In Free For All, Rest sucks unless you get everyone. In a 1vs.1 match, its good, but you have to combo it to ensure a hit. You don't want to miss with Rest, or it's over. Rest is blockable with the Shield. A great strategy is to abuse air moves like Pound in the air, aerial back A, and aerial forward A. Aerial forward A can be comboed with Rest, so can Pound. Jigglypuff rules the air, it would be foolish to challenge a good Jigglypuff in the air.

As for the hiding person, play 1vs.1 against him, snuff him out, or play on a stage where you can't hide. Tell him to attack when he can, not when he has to.

[Hikaru]

Originally posted by Ultimate Pikachu
You shouldn't get into the fray with Jigglypuff against anyone. Some people won't let you close enough. In Free For All, Rest sucks unless you get everyone. In a 1vs.1 match, its good, but you have to combo it to ensure a hit. You don't want to miss with Rest, or it's over. Rest is blockable with the Shield. A great strategy is to abuse air moves like Pound in the air, aerial back A, and aerial forward A. Aerial forward A can be comboed with Rest, so can Pound. Jigglypuff rules the air, it would be foolish to challenge a good Jigglypuff in the air.

If you can't get into the fray with Purin, you're not using her to the best of its ability. Using pound as a clearout is a great way to isolate and do a good amount of damage. Rollout is also quite underused in the matches I watched, and that is a great move to attack melee areas. And not hitting everyone with Rest isn't essential to Jiggly, as long as its health is decent and there aren't many large characters.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

Originally posted by Hikaru
If you can't get into the fray with Purin, you're not using her to the best of its ability. Using pound as a clearout is a great way to isolate and do a good amount of damage. Rollout is also quite underused in the matches I watched, and that is a great move to attack melee areas. And not hitting everyone with Rest isn't essential to Jiggly, as long as its health is decent and there aren't many large characters.

That statement I made was unclear, I meant don't get into the fray with just anyone. I meant that you should find a way to slip into the fray and then go on with your rampage of doom. You have to catch them of guard while getting into the fray. Rollout is a great clearout move, but it only hits one person. I only use it much in 1vs.1. In Free For All, I use it to get some space. It can also get a K.O. It's a great way to get people on flat stages on the run, and I don't think you can hit Jigglypuff during a fully charged Rollout like you can Yoshi during Egg Roll. Large characters isn't the problem, it's strong and fast characters that make it bad for Jigglypuff if she doesn't hit everyone.

[Deviou$]

Jigglypuff's main strength is not rest or rollout, but rather its spectacular air control and surprisingly high-range back air and forward air. Best recovery in the game also helps, and it also helps her edge-guard opponents by jumping after them, while doing this with characters like Falco is suicide.

My best character is probably Marth. With speed, range and nasty air combos, he's a candidate for the best in the game.

[RedStarWarrior]

I am just going to avoid the whole argument above...

Anyway, I use DK. He has been true to me. Also, I don't give a **** if he isn't the best character...for anyone who cares to argue.

[phaedrus]

Hm....I'm getting a hell of a lot better with....

*plays SSBM for 30 mins. XD*

Jigglypuff.....In fact, I've won all my lvl9 free for all matches with him/her, except for that one at Dream Fountain, but that was a Sudden Death....

Seems like I'm sucking with everyone else tho.....

*plays 2 matches*

whoa.......I'm doing just the same w/ Luigi as with Jigglypuff! ;p

[Craig]

I always use Sheik, I just love using Sheik's Aerial smashes, and people really hate the darts cause they can barely see them.

[Kari and Mewtwo]

Meh, I still play SSBM once in a while, but its always vs CPUs since noones in my area. If youa sk me, Sheik & Marth are just gay for being constantly OU (Although I kinda like Marth). I'd rather go for lower tier characters, namely Link & Mewtwo. Both may not be that high ranked, but I use em 90% of the time.

[Last Exile]

I'm damn good with Kirby in VS. But on the classic/adventure/all-star, I'm better with Roy for scores and surviving.

[Saturos]

I still play it. I think the most lethal character to use is in fact... JIGGLYPUFF!! No seriously, Jigglypuff is a killer. No lie. There was a tournament at my mall two years back, and this one guy (or gal, I forget...) used Jigglypuff and won the tournament. The person got a $20 gift certificate to GameStop...

Jigglypuff is basically THE only character that can defeat Giga Bowser. No lie again. I tried every character out on that boss, and Jigglypuff is the best. All you have to do is use Rest on it, does mega damage to Giga Bowser. After he's defeated, you have to wait for drop items to come falling down and use them against Ganondorf and Mewtwo. To not get killed by those two, you have to float from the opposite sides of the playing field and wait for the best opportunity to hit and defeat them.

[bme]

Yeah, I play it a lot. I think everyone would say they love this game. 8)

The characters I use the most are:

Samus: She's well rounded with her long range and short range attacks. I also like using her bombs to get back on stage.

Kirby: Kirby is really great. Can't be grabbed while crouching and is really hard to keep off a stage.

Marth: It's a given I use him. He has great range, and his sword can cancel out moves like Doctor Mario's pills. I like his spike, and his aerial Foward + A usually leads to people eating a 5 hit combo and then a Down + A off the screen. His grabs are great too.


Anyway, I use DK. He has been true to me. Also, I don't give a **** if he isn't the best character...for anyone who cares to argue.

No arguing here. He's useful as any other character. It's funny to fake someone out then land a fully charged B move. :D This guy at a smash board named Mike has a great Donkey Kong. He makes Kong proud to be a gorilla.

[Prodigy]

Marth is your god, non-Marth-using heathens.

[classy_cat18]

Marth is your god, non-Marth-using heathens.

I bow to no swordsman! Fear the almighty Yoshi!
:nut:

[Ultimate Pikachu]

I feel like posting reasons I like who I like.

Pikachu: Fast and powerful. Decent recovery. Up Smash is evil. Time it right and it's a great finisher move. Great aerials to rack up damage. Nice pseudo spike. I'm deadly with Pikachu.

Jigglypuff: Insane aerials. Destructive in the air. Destroys Fox and Falco. Get anyone but Marth in the air and it's over. Great recovery and aerials provides good edgeguarding.

Zelda: Good aerial forward A and aerial back A. Great tilts as Sheik. I just rack up damage as Sheik and KO with Zelda.

Young Link: Good areials. Fast. Nice projectiles. Good recovery. Nice down A spike. Bombs rule. I spam aerials.

Link: Same as Young Link minus speed and recovery. Heavy.

Pichu: Same as Pikachu but not as strong Up Smash and not as deadly with the stupid self damage. Hit and run rocks.

Kirby: Copy abilities lead to randomness. Basiclly a step down from Jigglypuff.

Mewtwo: Up and back throw. Nice aerials. Good recovery (second best vertical). Nice tilts.

[phaedrus]

I still play it. I think the most lethal character to use is in fact... JIGGLYPUFF!! No seriously, Jigglypuff is a killer. No lie. There was a tournament at my mall two years back, and this one guy (or gal, I forget...) used Jigglypuff and won the tournament. The person got a $20 gift certificate to GameStop...

Jigglypuff is basically THE only character that can defeat Giga Bowser. No lie again. I tried every character out on that boss, and Jigglypuff is the best. All you have to do is use Rest on it, does mega damage to Giga Bowser. After he's defeated, you have to wait for drop items to come falling down and use them against Ganondorf and Mewtwo. To not get killed by those two, you have to float from the opposite sides of the playing field and wait for the best opportunity to hit and defeat them.

really? i beat giga bowser, mewtwo AND ganondorf with luigi. same for masterhand and crazyhand (whatever the lefty's name is)

[Ultimate Pikachu]

really? i beat giga bowser, mewtwo AND ganondorf with luigi. same for masterhand and crazyhand (whatever the lefty's name is)

I also beat that event with Fox, Ganondorf, Marth and Roy. It's rather easy.

[The Muffin Man]

It's easy once you get better at the game.

As for Jigglypuff - Rest is a horrible attack. It's way too situational. I mean, sure it's great if you can time it right, but 9 times outta 10 they'll avoid it somehow. It's really best when you've got backup. I prefer Pound and Rollout. But I mainly get in close and user her A attacks and Pound. Most people are a bit confused when you get in close with Jigglypuff.

[phaedrus]

As for Jigglypuff - Rest is a horrible attack. It's way too situational. I mean, sure it's great if you can time it right, but 9 times outta 10 they'll avoid it somehow. It's really best when you've got backup. I prefer Pound and Rollout. But I mainly get in close and user her A attacks and Pound. Most people are a bit confused when you get in close with Jigglypuff.

melee match, lvl9 ice climbers, lvl9 samus, lvl9 bowser, me as jigglypuff = jigglypuff +2 points within 10 seconds X)

[Hikaru]

It's easy once you get better at the game.

As for Jigglypuff - Rest is a horrible attack. It's way too situational. I mean, sure it's great if you can time it right, but 9 times outta 10 they'll avoid it somehow. It's really best when you've got backup. I prefer Pound and Rollout. But I mainly get in close and user her A attacks and Pound. Most people are a bit confused when you get in close with Jigglypuff.

Rest is a good attack, but it is situational. Good combos involve up throw + rest, down throw + rest, screw + rest, sing + rest, etc. Rollout is only good on a few stages, making it tougher to compare to Rest. Meh, I wish there was online for Smash, unless people want to come to Jersey to get whooped >=D

[The Muffin Man]

Rest is a good attack, but it is situational. Good combos involve up throw + rest, down throw + rest, screw + rest, sing + rest, etc. Rollout is only good on a few stages, making it tougher to compare to Rest. Meh, I wish there was online for Smash, unless people want to come to Jersey to get whooped >=D
Rollout is great if you're skilled at pulling back at the last second.

I've become a master at the Rollout turn. I'll go off on the platform at Pokemon Stadium, then someone comes up to hops on to laugh at me flying off, just to get surprised that I jerked back and sent their ass flying.

[phaedrus]

if nintendo remade melee to support lan and an internet connection...

*orgasm* :love2: :jump:

[Ultimate Pikachu]

Rollout is only good if you can control it. Rest is good, but using it right involves combos. Jigglypuff's main strength is her aerial game. If you get knocked off the stage, come back and hit your foe with an aerial back A. Then hit them with more and get back to the stage. If them get back, smash them.

[The Muffin Man]

I know how to use Jigglypuff.

Rollout is useless if you don't master the turn. 9 out of 10 Rollout related deaths will be YOURS if you don't master the turn. Think about it, if you turn, they have to DOUBLE jump to avoid it, and thus if the THIRD turn hits them, they only have their Up+B to save them.

Rest is crap. It's not good in combos. It leaves you WAY too wide open.

Jigglypuff has 2 main tactics. Her aerial attacks, and throwing the opponent off-guard. You have to utilize them TOGETHER to win.

[Hikaru]

:shrug: At the university's tournament, I won a 2:00 match with a +8 against three people, all with negative scores. In the finals, facing Ganondorf, I rested him 4 times, KO'ing all 4 times, winning 4-0. It depends on when you use Rest, it's certainly useful.

[The Muffin Man]

You must have faced a really bad Ganondorf. My friend is amazing with Ganondorf, and he's incredibly hard to Rest, even with the up and down throws. Hell, I've had to sleep him to get him.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

You must have faced a really bad Ganondorf. My friend is amazing with Ganondorf, and he's incredibly hard to Rest, even with the up and down throws. Hell, I've had to sleep him to get him.

If you fight him on Mushroom Kingdom, get on the blocks, grab him, do a down throw, then use Rest as soon as you can. Easy Rest. I wouldn't try to Rest Ganondorf, because you could just use aerials. Only use Rest if you know it will hit, or else...

[phaedrus]

...you will suffer a horrible death.

i'm trying to get back into some secret chars. =)

[Ultimate Pikachu]

I destroyed my friend today. He is horrible. He was usually Link, and I was Pikachu most of the time. He was very predictable, using the aerial down A, Up B, and Forward Smash mostly. I just dodged his attacks and attacked him. The worst thing ia that he repeated. I only lost a life when I messed up. He said he was better with Kirby but I KOed him once without taking a hit and he restarted (I love down throw and up smash). Wimp. I landed a perfect Rest on him when he was Fox and I was Jigglypuff. It was rather easy. He made excuses and kept saying he wasn't trying. He also called me cheap. We turned items off and I still destroyed him. It was easier. And I thought I sucked.

[PhatZapdos]

.....no....

[phaedrus]

I destroyed my friend today. He is horrible. He was usually Link, and I was Pikachu most of the time. He was very predictable, using the aerial down A, Up B, and Forward Smash mostly. I just dodged his attacks and attacked him. The worst thing ia that he repeated. I only lost a life when I messed up. He said he was better with Kirby but I KOed him once without taking a hit and he restarted (I love down throw and up smash). Wimp. I landed a perfect Rest on him when he was Fox and I was Jigglypuff. It was rather easy. He made excuses and kept saying he wasn't trying. He also called me cheap. We turned items off and I still destroyed him. It was easier. And I thought I sucked.

point being?

i could own people. mosey on down to OH if you want an ownage.

[Hikaru]

Click the link in my sig to find out how you can find people near you to play ^_^;;

[Ultimate Pikachu]

point being?

i could own people. mosey on down to OH if you want an ownage.

The thing is how n00bish he was acting. I told him Kirby is for experts, and he said he was one. That was after I owned him. He also said up smash was Kirby's best attack. He said he wouldn't tell his "secret" while I owned him. He lies about records and stuff (he said his Ganondorf Home Run Contest score was over 10,000, somewhere near the world record, but the strategy he mentioned was not a 10,000 strat). He also sucks at Pokémon (he thinks he's more experienced, knows nothing about EVs, then starts blabbering about Pokémon of the Week). I wish I had decent people to play against. I have computers and a n00b who I can't play much. I also have someone who sucks more and someone I hate that I've never played, but I'm sure he sucks. This is why I suck. I don't have enough people to own. I know no one near me that doesn't suck at SSBM. Now do you get the point?

P.S.: I forgot to add, level 9 computers suck.

[Sheik]

I usually play with Ness. I've mastered his triple jump technique, and I'm unbeatable when I use him. I'm also quite good with Sheik, ONLY Sheik, not Zelda. Kirby is fun, and so is Falco. FALCO IS BETTER THAN FOX!

I hate Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, and the rest of the huge Nintendo Mascots that take all the glory. It's fun to kill them for being so famous and overrated. The makers of that game need to introduce more characters from less popular games, such as Jeff, Paula, and Poo from Earthbound, or Peppy or Slippy from Starfox. They could also put in Ridly or someone from Metroid, and King Dedede from the Kirby series.

When I play with Ness, I go heavy with the bat, and PK Fire. I also use aerial moves and stay out of the main battle, and attack from afar. With one on one battles, I usually dodge with a roll, and use my bat, or PK Fire + Throw.

When I'm Sheik, I always dodge and strike. I'll sometimes use the Needles, but not usually. With Kirby, I'll usually Copy first, then use smash attacks/copied power. As for Falco, dodge and attack, or use the Laser Gun/Super Dash move.

Ness rocks. So does Sheik.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

I feel like posting what I do, most of the time.

Pikachu: I stay away until I find the perfect time to strike (I do this with everone). I then hit them as much as I can with combos and stuff, usually ending with an up smash. I use Thunder Jolt if I feel like it. I like catching people off guard.

Jigglypuff: I use aerials mostly. I sneak past the opponents defenses and hammer them with aerial attacks. I sometimes do other things, being random is fun.

Zelda/Sheik: I use whoever I feel like whenever I feel like it. With Zelda, I catch them off guard and do whatever I want to with tilts and stuff. As Sheik, I sometimes just charge and use tilts. If I feel like it, I keep using the down throw and grabbing them out of the air until they somehow get out or are at a desireable damage%.

Young Link: I limit their options with projectiles until they're were I want them, then do combos with aerials and try to get them to the edge, where I do a down smash and edgeguard.

Link: Read above paragraph.

Pichu: See Pikachu.

Kirby: If I can get a good ability, them I suck them up and do stuff (I'll post about that later). If not, then I do what I always do, wait for the chance to strike. I get as many hits in as possible and get away. I try to use up smash as a finisher. Why did they water down Kirby so much? They went overboard.

Mewtwo: I wait for the chance to srtike and do up a to combo sometimes and down a followed up with a grab or aerial.

[Sarcastic Assassin]

I went undefeated at Ubercon with Jigglypuff in front of Tycho from PA.
Feh. Young Link could lick you twelve ways to Tuesday.

For me, it's Young Link (projectiles + strong smash attack = KO). Sometimes Link, sometimes Captain Falcon (C.Falcon = Ganondorf on speed). I also experiment with Mario (who I've found to be surprisingly well-rounded) and Fox (by default, the fastest).

[Hikaru]

Well, I'll be in the Smash 4 Cash (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34981) tourney next weekend in New York City. If you're within 50 miles, let me know so I can pour some embarassment juice down your drinkhole.

[The Muffin Man]

****, it's next weekend!?!? Gaaah...I wish I could go, but I didn't have time to prepare or anything or get a ride...

Some of these rules don't determine skill. Friendly Fire on? Oh yeah that's really fair. Mewtwo/Samus and Ness would be unstoppable as long as Samus can stay around. The levels are stupid(5 random stages?)

Stalling is banned obviously. But what's "stalling" and what's "gathering your wits"? I don't wanna be taking a breather before going in and being DQed because the ****tard is afraid his shitty Link will lose.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

****, it's next weekend!?!? Gaaah...I wish I could go, but I didn't have time to prepare or anything or get a ride...

Some of these rules don't determine skill. Friendly Fire on? Oh yeah that's really fair. Mewtwo/Samus and Ness would be unstoppable as long as Samus can stay around. The levels are stupid(5 random stages?)

Stalling is banned obviously. But what's "stalling" and what's "gathering your wits"? I don't wanna be taking a breather before going in and being DQed because the ****tard is afraid his shitty Link will lose.

Stalling only works in time matches. You basicly get ahead 1 point and run away for the rest of the match. There are two stalling tactics that are banned in tournaments. I agree that 5 random stages suck. It should stay on Pokémon Stadium, the fairest stage. Ness would not be unstoppable, what knid of idiot would use only projectiles?

[Hikaru]

I'm only participating in the 1 on 1 matches. I'll post a full report next week though, to see if it was really worth my time.

[The Muffin Man]

Stalling only works in time matches. You basicly get ahead 1 point and run away for the rest of the match. There are two stalling tactics that are banned in tournaments. I agree that 5 random stages suck. It should stay on Pokémon Stadium, the fairest stage. Ness would not be unstoppable, what knid of idiot would use only projectiles?

No, UP, you're missing the point. With Friendly Fire, a Samus/Mewtwo and Ness team could keep Ness at 0%. Two of the most powerful attacks in the game are energy based, and thus give Ness' magnet a nice heal. What's gonna stop a person from picking Ness and a person from picking Samus as their team? Me and my friend are great as Ness and Samus(vice versa of course, he sucks as Samus I suck as Ness...)

[Ultimate Pikachu]

No, UP, you're missing the point. With Friendly Fire, a Samus/Mewtwo and Ness team could keep Ness at 0%. Two of the most powerful attacks in the game are energy based, and thus give Ness' magnet a nice heal. What's gonna stop a person from picking Ness and a person from picking Samus as their team? Me and my friend are great as Ness and Samus(vice versa of course, he sucks as Samus I suck as Ness...)

The whole team could focus on one person and take them out. Besides, those projectiles are slow. What stops someone from getting in the way? Taking out Samus/Mewtwo? It's not as invincible as you think.

[The Muffin Man]

The whole team could focus on one person and take them out. Besides, those projectiles are slow. What stops someone from getting in the way? Taking out Samus/Mewtwo? It's not as invincible as you think.

Are we even playing the same game? Do you play with anyone that can actually move their fingers?

I'll explain it ALOT more simple:
If they only go after Samus or Mewtwo, Ness is free to fight them as he pleases.

Second, the charges are NOT that slow. You've obviously never used either character(Mewtwo's charge gives him defense from behind while Samus' is quick and she can dodge faster than Mewtwo).

Finally, No one said that had to be there ONLY option, but imagine fighting Ness with 0% when you and your friend are at 120%. NOT an easy task.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

Are we even playing the same game? Do you play with anyone that can actually move their fingers?

I'll explain it ALOT more simple:
If they only go after Samus or Mewtwo, Ness is free to fight them as he pleases.

Second, the charges are NOT that slow. You've obviously never used either character(Mewtwo's charge gives him defense from behind while Samus' is quick and she can dodge faster than Mewtwo).

Finally, No one said that had to be there ONLY option, but imagine fighting Ness with 0% when you and your friend are at 120%. NOT an easy task.

I play people that can move they're fingers. I'm also playing the same game.

Ness would be free, but someone could leave Samus/Mewtwo and take care of Ness. This seperates them, nulifying that stupid "strategy". Team battles can be seperated into to 1vs1 matches.

I've used both. Mewtwo's defense from behind doesn't help. I'm talking about the attack, not the charge.

That won't happen if Ness doesn't get to 0%. He won't if it's against someone decent. What if someone grabbed Ness and Ness got hit by the projectile? He won't heal. What do you expect the other team to be doing?

[Crufidal]

Sorry to interrupt anything here.. uh, I've got a question.

I've heard about this technique called "Wallbombing," and apparently it's a "cheap" stalling technique that can be used by Peach. I've looked everywhere, but couldn't find any info on it... does anyone know what this is? If anyone could post here or PM me, it'd be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance :D

[The Muffin Man]

I play people that can move they're fingers. I'm also playing the same game.

Ness would be free, but someone could leave Samus/Mewtwo and take care of Ness. This seperates them, nulifying that stupid "strategy". Team battles can be seperated into to 1vs1 matches.

I've used both. Mewtwo's defense from behind doesn't help. I'm talking about the attack, not the charge.

That won't happen if Ness doesn't get to 0%. He won't if it's against someone decent. What if someone grabbed Ness and Ness got hit by the projectile? He won't heal. What do you expect the other team to be doing?

...You apparently have NEVER played as Mewtwo/Samus OR Ness. Or at least not well. Any good player of either character COULD pull off the strategy flawless. How do I know? I PLAY Samus and my friend is usually Ness. We both pretty much always get it off easily.

[The Muffin Man]

Sorry to interrupt anything here.. uh, I've got a question.

I've heard about this technique called "Wallbombing," and apparently it's a "cheap" stalling technique that can be used by Peach. I've looked everywhere, but couldn't find any info on it... does anyone know what this is? If anyone could post here or PM me, it'd be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance :D

I THINK Wallbombing is going to a place where it's nearly impossible to get back up from as anyone, and using Peaches bomb attack (Forward B I think?) to infinitly blast her against the wall and keep her from budging, thus keeping her below your opponents % and unharmed. But this is only useful because people are idiots and use characters like Fox and Shiek who have literally not useable distance attacks(Needles and laser pistol don't constitute "useful distance")

[Ultimate Pikachu]

...You apparently have NEVER played as Mewtwo/Samus OR Ness. Or at least not well. Any good player of either character COULD pull off the strategy flawless. How do I know? I PLAY Samus and my friend is usually Ness. We both pretty much always get it off easily.

If the other team stays close to Mewtwo/Samus and Ness they could not do it well. You haven't played against anyone good using that strategy.

[Da Fragger]

Hey I'm new. Just thought I'd say that and stuff.

Anyways, I still play Super Smash Brothers Melee occasionally. I basically specialize in Mewtwo, Marth, and Fox.

Sorry to interrupt the heated debating ;).

[Hikaru]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34838

Sort of interesting tiers of characters. I'm figuring that tomorrow I'm going to see a lot of
Zeldas, Marths, Foxs and Falcos, especially Falco's and Samus after they find out I'm Jiggly ^^;

[The Muffin Man]

He's quite the moron...

Bowser is bottom? Yeah. Right. He probably goes into fights with Bowser. Peach is ****. I've tried her, she has SO few good attacks it's not even funny. Too hard to combo with. Yoshi is upper mid-tier, Link should be bottom of Mid-tier...Mewtwo, Kirby, Ness, and DK should all be upper or high. Bowser at LEAST mid.

[bme]

If you didn't notice, they're not bottom tier because they suck, but because they have trouble against more of the cast, and they have a lot of bad points, like Pichu hurting itself and being KO'd at low %, or Donkey Kong being easy to combo. Bowser does rock in attrition, and I remember watching a vid of Donkey Kong rocking a Fox, so the tier doesn't meant they're useless, but in an equally skilled match, the low tier will have a harder time winning. I think Mewtwo should be bottom myself. At least Pichu and Bowser can duck under stuff, and Mewtwo is KO'd around Pichu range. I also think Marth should be top tier. Shiek is considered broken, but man, Marth kills everyone. Being able to Counter an edge guarder = fun. Speaking of Shiek, curse her and that stupid chop. :mad:

[Ultimate Pikachu]

He's quite the moron...

Bowser is bottom? Yeah. Right. He probably goes into fights with Bowser. Peach is ****. I've tried her, she has SO few good attacks it's not even funny. Too hard to combo with. Yoshi is upper mid-tier, Link should be bottom of Mid-tier...Mewtwo, Kirby, Ness, and DK should all be upper or high. Bowser at LEAST mid.

You just aren't good with Peach and haven't tried. Turnips can destroy Fox and Falco's recovery. Peach has many exellent attacks. All of the aerials are good, and don't forget floating. Bowser is so slow it's not funny. His attacks are so slow, most characters can hit him during most of his attacks' starting animation. Characters are not ranked within tiers besides top. Yoshi has few good attacks, and I think he should be low. Link has great aerials, so no bottom middle. Mewtwo Ness, and DK don't have many good moves. Kirby has a great aerial down A, but not much else. DK has a great aerial back A. I can't think of what Ness has great. I think tiers are complete crap. Also Roy should be bottom.

[The Muffin Man]

You just aren't good with Peach and haven't tried. Turnips can destroy Fox and Falco's recovery. Peach has many exellent attacks. All of the aerials are good, and don't forget floating.
I've tried Peach. Her Turnips barely do anything if the player is any good. Fire Fox/Falcon Fire up more than across and you can dodge them. Or if they interupt it, try again. It renews his Up B ability. Or if you're close enough, Fox Illusion/Falco Phantasm. While I concede the Floating point, I KNOW aerial game. She does not have it.



Bowser is so slow it's not funny. His attacks are so slow, most characters can hit him during most of his attacks' starting animation.
...You don't know how to play Bowser. You WAIT for them. Bowser is a tank. He's not made to move. He's made to wait for his opponents to go to him and slip up. And if he DOES have to move, his Down-B is a pretty effective dodge.



Characters are not ranked within tiers besides top. Yoshi has few good attacks, and I think he should be low. Link has great aerials, so no bottom middle. Mewtwo Ness, and DK don't have many good moves. Kirby has a great aerial down A, but not much else. DK has a great aerial back A. I can't think of what Ness has great. I think tiers are complete crap. Also Roy should be bottom.
Yoshi should be middle at LEAST. Link is terrible, but not unusable so lower middle tier. Mewtwo, Ness, and DK are amazing in the right hands. DKs punch goes through SO many walls it's not even funny, Ness has alot of priority, and Mewtwo is strong as hell. Kirby has good attacks. He's just a lighter, weaker Fox with an amazing suicide. Roy, however, is indeed horrible. HE should be the bottom of the bottom tier.


But BME - I think Marths inability to counter Jigglypuff should put him at least even with Jiggly. Yes. That's right. His Rollout goes UNDER Marths counter-swing, leaving a skilled Jiggly player*Myself, for example* an easy shot at his back, to send him flying at full force.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

I've tried Peach. Her Turnips barely do anything if the player is any good. Fire Fox/Falcon Fire up more than across and you can dodge them. Or if they interupt it, try again. It renews his Up B ability. Or if you're close enough, Fox Illusion/Falco Phantasm. While I concede the Floating point, I KNOW aerial game. She does not have it.


...You don't know how to play Bowser. You WAIT for them. Bowser is a tank. He's not made to move. He's made to wait for his opponents to go to him and slip up. And if he DOES have to move, his Down-B is a pretty effective dodge.


Yoshi should be middle at LEAST. Link is terrible, but not unusable so lower middle tier. Mewtwo, Ness, and DK are amazing in the right hands. DKs punch goes through SO many walls it's not even funny, Ness has alot of priority, and Mewtwo is strong as hell. Kirby has good attacks. He's just a lighter, weaker Fox with an amazing suicide. Roy, however, is indeed horrible. HE should be the bottom of the bottom tier.


But BME - I think Marths inability to counter Jigglypuff should put him at least even with Jiggly. Yes. That's right. His Rollout goes UNDER Marths counter-swing, leaving a skilled Jiggly player*Myself, for example* an easy shot at his back, to send him flying at full force.

You are just terrible with Peach and Link and think that if you aren't good with someone then they are bad. You haven't noticed what Peach's down smash can do. Anyway, I'm not an expert on Peach.

Bowser is such an easy target, someone could sneak a good hit in and start a combo. I'm not saying he sucks. Please define what you call a "tank". With Bowser, you hit back if you get hit. You aren't supposed to rely on your opponent slipping up, you should just take advantage when that happens. Relying on someone slipping up is stupid and they won't always slip up. I think Bowser should be at least low.

Forget Yoshi, he is one of the three characters I wouldn't be caught dead using in a real fight.

Link isn't terrible, you just suck with him and are not playing him right. The only terrible character is Roy. With Link and Young Link you should use projectiles to limit where your foe can go until you've got them where you want them. After that do whatever combos you can, down throw+aerial A+aerial up A is good. Aerial forward A is great as a finisher and aproach. Post why you think Link is bad and I'll counter it.

Everyone but Roy is amazing in the right hands. Who cares if DK's punches go through walls. What idiot would keep going to the wall to be hit? Only computers and moronic people do that. Ness has some decent aerials and great throws, but there's not much he can do. Mewtwo is NOT strong and is also big and light. Not a good combination. Kirby can do a pseudo Wall of Pain but his aerial mobility isn't as good as Jigglypuff's. Only morons do that suicide thing.

Counter sucks and is barely ever useful. Stick to Marth's aerials. From your posts, it seems that you are not skilled with Jigglypuff. Do you know what the Wall of Pain is?

I think these should be the tiers.

Top
Everyone but Roy

Bottom
Roy

[bme]

But BME - I think Marths inability to counter Jigglypuff should put him at least even with Jiggly. Yes. That's right. His Rollout goes UNDER Marths counter-swing, leaving a skilled Jiggly player*Myself, for example* an easy shot at his back, to send him flying at full force.
It doesn't go under his down smash, crouch a, aerial A, aerial down A, forward smash, Shield Breaker, and it could be grabbed out of. From my own experience, I can say it's not really even. Marth has a huge advantage with his range over Jigglypuff, and unless it's like the best Jiggly ever, it's going to be hard to get inside Marth because you have to get through a wall of sword swinging. He can wavedash back while Jiggly tries to get in close for Rest, and then eats a sword. Again, i'm not writing him off as god. I know of a few situations he could be beaten. A Marth could mess up and use aerial nuetral A, and you just float under his sword right into his legs and BAMM he's dead, or you shield right when he swings close, then grab into a down throw and BAMM he's dead again.

I do remember a funny story I read on smash boards long ago. Something like Jigglypuff was considered mid or low tier, but then he moved up after someone used Jigglypuff to decimate a lot of people at a tournament and showed how good he could be.

[Sarcastic Assassin]

Top
Everyone but Roy

Bottom
Roy

I actually used to use Roy, and have to disagree with this. He's not nearly as fast as Marth, but I would say he easily has the biggest range in the whole game. I stopped using him (mainly because I discovered Young Link), but I don't think he's the worst character in the game. His Up + B can cause some real discomfort if used annoyingly, and his (neutral) B packs a mighty punch. Also, it would take some work to learn, but his Left/Right + B combo isn't bad.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

I actually used to use Roy, and have to disagree with this. He's not nearly as fast as Marth, but I would say he easily has the biggest range in the whole game. I stopped using him (mainly because I discovered Young Link), but I don't think he's the worst character in the game. His Up + B can cause some real discomfort if used annoyingly, and his (neutral) B packs a mighty punch. Also, it would take some work to learn, but his Left/Right + B combo isn't bad.

I was just showing how much I hate Roy. His aerials suck. Marth has better range. Roy doesn't have the biggest range. It's easy to avoid Up B, don't get above Roy. If you are talking about a fully charged Fire Blade, then go away. Roy's Fire Blade sucks fully charged. What idiot would walk into it. You must fight only computers if you think a fully charged, or even charged at all Fire Blade is good. Most characters have better combos than Marth or Roy's forward B. I still think he is worst though.

[The Muffin Man]

Actually, Jigglypuff can jump over most of his A attacks(Up A is like the only one) and all of his B's except Up B and Pound from behind. His aerial game is far better than Marths.

And UP - I doubt you've ever played as DK, Ness, Yoshi, Bowser, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, or Roy. I've played as Link. Used to be one of my best. But eventually he just didn't cut it in terms of defense, damage, speed, jumping, etc. Peach I played. She was alright, but her combos were way too "tacked on"...none of the hits flowed, it was to easy to see a gap, dodge, and retaliate.

[bme]

Actually, Jigglypuff can jump over most of his A attacks(Up A is like the only one) and all of his B's except Up B and Pound from behind. His aerial game is far better than Marths.
I agree Jigglypuff has better aerial in evasiveness and recovery, but Marth doesn't even need to go up in the air after Jigglypuff. You can't just float up forever, and eventually you'll come down and get smacked. :p Unless I see a video of Jigglypuff vs Marth(I don't go to tournaments :(), i'll never believe Jigglypuff has better aerial game than Marth. Go to a tournament and hook up with well known good Marths and see if Jigglypuff can do all that stuff.

[The Muffin Man]

I agree Jigglypuff has better aerial in evasiveness and recovery, but Marth doesn't even need to go up in the air after Jigglypuff. You can't just float up forever, and eventually you'll come down and get smacked. :p Unless I see a video of Jigglypuff vs Marth(I don't go to tournaments :(), i'll never believe Jigglypuff has better aerial game than Marth. Go to a tournament and hook up with well known good Marths and see if Jigglypuff can do all that stuff.

Get behind him and Pound. It's THAT simple!
No really, Pound is an amazing move. It sends him flying BEHIND you, giving you a chance to pound back that way and juggle him.

[Da Fragger]

Mewtwo is NOT strong and is also big and light. Not a good combination.

Mewtwo requires alot of predicting the opponant's moves and knowing exactly how long it will take M2 to actually execute his moves. Know these things and it'll look like you know the future AND rock. Disable pwns when you know how to use it.


Counter sucks and is barely ever useful. Stick to Marth's aerials.

I have killed many a moron with counter.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

Actually, Jigglypuff can jump over most of his A attacks(Up A is like the only one) and all of his B's except Up B and Pound from behind. His aerial game is far better than Marths.

And UP - I doubt you've ever played as DK, Ness, Yoshi, Bowser, Pikachu, Jigglypuff, or Roy. I've played as Link. Used to be one of my best. But eventually he just didn't cut it in terms of defense, damage, speed, jumping, etc. Peach I played. She was alright, but her combos were way too "tacked on"...none of the hits flowed, it was to easy to see a gap, dodge, and retaliate.

I've played everyone. It's just that I'm only good with Pikachu and Jigglypuff out of those characters. Those are my two best characters, and I know how to use them. I also know how to use Link (my 5th best), unlike you. Peach has great combos. I'll post a few if you want me to. You're just running out of things to say. Marth and Jigglypuff's areial games are pretty much equal, but Marth can beat Jigglypuff in the air because of range. If they get close enough, then it might change.

[bme]

Get behind him and Pound. It's THAT simple!
No really, Pound is an amazing move. It sends him flying BEHIND you, giving you a chance to pound back that way and juggle him.
Yeah, he just turns around and shield grabs, throws, then forward smash if you're not sent too far.

In the case you fake out Marth and get him with pound, you can't juggle him for long. He's not heavy, so he'll stay up and recover to hit you with his sword if you try to get close. Of course this is based on skill. A terrible Marth will be Rested by a good Jigglypuff. :p I like Jigglypuff myself actually.

If I was going to use anyone against Marth, it would be C. Falcon. The knee wins! It's all about the throw and knee!

[phaedrus]

If I was going to use anyone against Marth, it would be C. Falcon. The knee wins! It's all about the throw and knee!

I HATE THAT ****ING KNEE!!!!

EDIT: meh, this debate is insane.

[The Muffin Man]

First - UP: Jiggly has way better aerial than Marth. Range doesn't make your aerial any good...

Second - bme: No, a GOOD Jigglypuff player doesn't Rest. I'm sorry, but it's not worth being totally prone long enough for a full smash to KO a medium weight character(Heavier characters might not go out on large stages).

[Ultimate Pikachu]

Marth beats Jigglypuff in the air, but who said you couldn't float away and wait for a next chance. Don't try to beat Marth with Jigglypuff in the air. Catch him off guard. Marth's range gives him better aerial game and priority. His air moves already have little lag and have nice power. But the damage for Jigglypuff and Marth's aerial attacks are about the same.

To end the tier debate: Tiers are just a list from who has the least disadvantages to who has the most.

[The Muffin Man]

Marth beats Jigglypuff in the air, but who said you couldn't float away and wait for a next chance. Don't try to beat Marth with Jigglypuff in the air. Catch him off guard. Marth's range gives him better aerial game and priority. His air moves already have little lag and have nice power. But the damage for Jigglypuff and Marth's aerial attacks are about the same.

To end the tier debate: Tiers are just a list from who has the least disadvantages to who has the most.

I know how to play Jigglypuff. You don't need to tell me how.

Jigglys best bet to take out Marth, or any powerful character, is to not wait usually. Sure, waiting them out can be important, and dodging is ALWAYS neccasary, but if you're playing someone with mid to slow attacks, you really should overwhelm them with Jigglys somehow freakish attack speed. And most newer players won't know how to handle such a "weak" character coming in so fast.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

I wasn't telling you how to use Jigglypuff.

Jigglypuff has a hard time with Marth because of Marth's range and priority. Finding a weak spot is vital. After the weak spot is found, hit Marth with a barrage of aerials. If you can hit and can still continue hitting him, continue, if not get away and find another weak spot. To finish him off, aerial back a and all 3 smashes (c-stick is the best way to smash, forward smash KO's sooner) are great. Edgeguard the same, but remember, down smash Marth only if he is falling.


And most newer players won't know how to handle such a "weak" character coming in so fast.

I don't give advice to new players, if that's what you meant. It's too hard to help someone at that low of a level.

This place needs experts or at least people who know about wavedashing, L-cancels, wavesmashes, ect. I'm going to post my Homerun Contest Scores later.

[The Muffin Man]

Wavedashing is pointless. The time you spend jumping and canceling it is time better spent running. Only Luigi does it any good.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

Wavedashing is pointless. The time you spend jumping and canceling it is time better spent running. Only Luigi does it any good.

Wavedashing pointless? :lol: Ever heard of wavesmashing? It's when you wavedash then do a smash. With wavesmashing it's easier to hit multiple times with many down smashes. You have to use the c-stick. Do you even use the c-stick? It doesn't really take time to do one. Wavedashing is not mainly for transportation. There are many other uses. Wavesmashing is only one of many. You couldn't do a smash while running unless you jump cancel, but wavesmashing is way easier. Some characters wouldn't nearly as good without it. Go to someplace that has true experts and you'll see the uses. I'll list a few uses.

Wavesmash
Wavedash followed by grab
Wavedash to aerial attack
Transportation (for Luigi, Mewtwo, Samus, and a few others)
Wavedash to tilt
Mind Games

I'll post more when I get to, most likely with my HRC scores.

[bme]

Second - bme: No, a GOOD Jigglypuff player doesn't Rest. I'm sorry, but it's not worth being totally prone long enough for a full smash to KO a medium weight character(Heavier characters might not go out on large stages).
Eh, what good players are you talking about? I don't know any myself, but everyone i've heard at smashboards says the really good Jigglypuff's can land Rest consistantly. I would consider the move worth it if it can KO at low percent.


I HATE THAT ****ING KNEE!!!!
Lol. Also, his Blood Falcon and black costume are the best I must say. 8)

[phaedrus]

This place needs experts or at least people who know about wavedashing, L-cancels, wavesmashes, ect. I'm going to post my Homerun Contest Scores later.

i got 2039.4 with yoshi. =)

EDIT:


Lol. Also, his Blood Falcon and black costume are the best I must say.

i usually beat up on falcon. i use link most of the time. i want to get into some other chars...

been through luigi, in link, working on jigglypuff, went into marth a little. i want to work on a different char to own some hairy ass (lolz).

[Ultimate Pikachu]

i got 2039.4 with yoshi. =)

That's easy. I have over 6,000 with Ganondorf and over 2,700 with Yoshi. The world record is 11,345.2. The world record for Yoshi is 5,416.5.

[phaedrus]

That's easy. I have over 6,000 with Ganondorf and over 2,700 with Yoshi. The world record is 11,345.2. The world record for Yoshi is 5,416.5.

how do you do it?

[Ultimate Pikachu]

how do you do it?

If you mean my scores, I'll try to remember how. First learn that L-Canceling is your friend.

Yoshi
1.Grab the bat.
2.Do a short hop aerial down a on the bag.
3.Do as many bat drop forward a's as you can.
4.Do a forward smash with the bat.

Bat drop foward a: Jump. At the peak of your jump drop the bat and immedeatly do an aerial forward a. To do multiple ones, jump as soon as you can and catch the bat with Z then at the peak of your jump drop the bat and do an aerial forward a.

Ganondorf
1. Grab the bat.
2.Run forward, then do and up smash.
3. Run in front of the bag a little.
4.Do as many bat drop foward a's as you can.
5.Do a reverse Warlock Punch

Bat drop down a: Jump, at the peak of the jump drop the bat then do and aerial down a. To to multiple ones, jump and catch the bat with Z, then continue with the rest of the combo (you still has to be in the same jump).

Reverse Warlock Punch: Jump twice to the right above the bag, at the peak of the second jump drop the bat and press B. I might take a few tries to get the timing right.

I'll start posting my scores now.
Dr. Mario: 2,045.0 Ft.
Mario: 2,002.7 Ft.
Luigi: 1,706.7 Ft.
Bowser: 1,995.4 Ft.
Peach: 1,832.7 Ft.
Yoshi: 2,763.8 Ft.
D.K.: 2,241.2 Ft.
Captain Falcon: 3,063.7 Ft.
Ganondorf: 6,673.1 Ft.
Falco: 1,933.8 Ft.
Fox: 1,899.0 Ft.
Ness: 1,600.4 Ft
Ice Climbers: 1,866.2 Ft.
Kirby: 1,627.3 Ft.
Samus: 2,098.5 Ft.

I'll post the rest later.

[The Muffin Man]

Wavedashing pointless? :lol: Ever heard of wavesmashing? It's when you wavedash then do a smash. With wavesmashing it's easier to hit multiple times with many down smashes.
Considering most of them knock them up or away..?


You have to use the c-stick. Do you even use the c-stick?
Mainly as Falco. I ABUSE the C-stick as Falco.


It doesn't really take time to do one. Wavedashing is not mainly for transportation. There are many other uses. Wavesmashing is only one of many. You couldn't do a smash while running unless you jump cancel, but wavesmashing is way easier.
...C-Stick stops you to do the smash.

Some characters wouldn't nearly as good without it. Go to someplace that has true experts and you'll see the uses. I'll list a few uses.

Wavesmash
Wavedash followed by grab
Wavedash to aerial attack
Transportation (for Luigi, Mewtwo, Samus, and a few others)
Wavedash to tilt
Mind Games

I'll post more when I get to, most likely with my HRC scores.

I've tried Wavedashing. I've practiced it for hours. On average, it's alot LESS effective then real fighting. Have you ever wavedashed? Or do you just read SSBM forums and assume it's great because the top Fox player(Newbie character, mainly) said so?


And bme - If it's 1v1 then there's not alot of problem. The REAL problem is that most good players can see it coming from a mile away, and usually avoid direct contact. If you grab them, Down-throw, and then leap up sure I bet it's possible to consistantly hit it, but it's too risky. You miss and you're prone.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

Considering most of them knock them up or away..?

I should changed that to a few. I had Zelda, Sheik, and Link's down smash in mind.


...C-Stick stops you to do the smash.

I meant a wavedash. Just wavedash. Besides, you can start the smash near the end of the wavedash.


I've tried Wavedashing. I've practiced it for hours. On average, it's alot LESS effective then real fighting.

Have you even tested the uses I posted? It's not wavedashing alone that makes it great, it's that you can attack near the end of it. Please define "real fighting".


Have you ever wavedashed? Or do you just read SSBM forums and assume it's great because the top Fox player(Newbie character, mainly) said so?

I have wavedashed and it can help in a fight. I do read other forums sometimes and that's why I know about wavedashing. After learning about it, I tried wavedashing. At first, I messed up a lot. Now, I mess up mainly with Fox. Fox is not a newbie character. Most newbs KO themselves with Fox a lot. Fox is NOT easy to learn. He's the hardest to short hop with and short hopping is one of the best things to do with him. Newbs are best off picking who they want and getting better with the selected character(s), so there is no real "newbie character".

[The Muffin Man]

No, Fox is the easiest to learn. I'm not saying EVERYONE who uses him is a newbie, I'm just saying that the mistakes are so easily forgiven. His Up A in the air is almost an instant KO, and it's not fair that a new player should get 3 KOs off an experienced vet because he jumped and mashed A.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

No, Fox is the easiest to learn. I'm not saying EVERYONE who uses him is a newbie, I'm just saying that the mistakes are so easily forgiven. His Up A in the air is almost an instant KO, and it's not fair that a new player should get 3 KOs off an experienced vet because he jumped and mashed A.

An experience vet would not get KOed 3 times by a new player spamming aerial up A. They could sheild grab him, hit him during the lag, and many other things. Also it takes at least 70% damage and a double jump for the aerial up a to KO. That is low, but there's no way a newbie would get even one KO on an advanced player. The mistakes are easily forgotten, but that doesn't make him easy to learn. He definately isn't the easiset to learn. Mario is one of the easiest to learn, and Fox is much harder to learn.

[The Muffin Man]

An experience vet would not get KOed 3 times by a new player spamming aerial up A. They could sheild grab him, hit him during the lag, and many other things. Also it takes at least 70% damage and a double jump for the aerial up a to KO. That is low, but there's no way a newbie would get even one KO on an advanced player. The mistakes are easily forgotten, but that doesn't make him easy to learn. He definately isn't the easiset to learn. Mario is one of the easiest to learn, and Fox is much harder to learn.

Do you even know what I'm talking about? Low Ceiling stages like Corneria I've seen DK get knocked off at around 25%.

And even elite players can't do alot of things in the middle of the air with an attack coming from DIRECTLY BELOW THEM...Considering the high priority his attack has, the ease of sending people off, and how hard it is to actually avoid without messing up your groove(Dodging mid-air stops you almost immedietly and drops you afterwards, leaving any plans to get up and over them and behind for an attack useless.)

[Ultimate Pikachu]

Do you even know what I'm talking about? Low Ceiling stages like Corneria I've seen DK get knocked off at around 25%.

Either you're playing with handicaps, DK got hit by an Airwing blast, or this happened on another stage with an extremely low ceiling, like Flat Zone.


And even elite players can't do alot of things in the middle of the air with an attack coming from DIRECTLY BELOW THEM...Considering the high priority his attack has, the ease of sending people off, and how hard it is to actually avoid without messing up your groove(Dodging mid-air stops you almost immedietly and drops you afterwards, leaving any plans to get up and over them and behind for an attack useless.)

They might not be able to do a lot of things but they can do something. There is DI (Directional Influence). It's holding the control stick left or right in the air. You could just manuver your character away from the attack. Some characters can spike Fox, Link and Young Link can do an aerial down A (if they recover fast enough) and at least stop Fox's aerial up A spamming. I only use that move when the opponent has at least enough damage so they get knocked away or are KOed. It's not a comboing move. Who said you had to get above them if you Air Dodge? Getting below him is what you should be trying to do.

[The Muffin Man]

Either you're playing with handicaps, DK got hit by an Airwing blast, or this happened on another stage with an extremely low ceiling, like Flat Zone.



They might not be able to do a lot of things but they can do something. There is DI (Directional Influence). It's holding the control stick left or right in the air. You could just manuver your character away from the attack. Some characters can spike Fox, Link and Young Link can do an aerial down A (if they recover fast enough) and at least stop Fox's aerial up A spamming. I only use that move when the opponent has at least enough damage so they get knocked away or are KOed. It's not a comboing move. Who said you had to get above them if you Air Dodge? Getting below him is what you should be trying to do.


Because you sure don't fall, do ya? Nope. You teleport below them. Giving them no chance to attack AGAIN.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

Because you sure don't fall, do ya? Nope. You teleport below them. Giving them no chance to attack AGAIN.

You might also get a grab.

[The Muffin Man]

You might also get a grab.

After I get back from being KOed, yes.

[Ultimate Pikachu]

After I get back from being KOed, yes.

I meant you might get a grab after you Air Dodge below him.

[ShiningClefairy]

I play occaisionally. I am pretty good with Yoshi.