Most improved/Least improved Johto

[Cferra]

With my recent capture of the last shadow pokemon in Colosseum, I got to wondering who was probably the most improved of the Johto pokemon now obtainable in Ruby and Sapphire. By most improved, I mean movesets of the Johtos, characteristics and how they have improved from their GSC counterparts.

The starters seem improved with the abilities that up fire, water and grass moves in a pinch. Has anyone noticed any real change in the Johtos, stat wise. I think finally ledian can get a decent move in Brick Break and Silver Wind. Who else has improved?

However, there are some pokemon that'll be weak like Togetic. Of course, we saw no improvements with Heracross, Slugma and Skarmory since they are one of the few Johto pokemon obtainible in RuSa.


Now all we have to do is wait for Fire Red and Leaf Green. So, let's compare the Johtos from Colosseum and RuSa to their counterparts in GSC. What changes were good and what were bad?

L_X

[Number1ChanseyFan]

I think that Quagsire's new ability, Water Absorb, helps it a lot. It now has 2 type immunities, Electric and Water, which are pretty common attack types. Also, the immunites are to two different special attacks, which is nice, because of Quagsire's low Special Defense stat. Of course, Quaggy is still extremely vulnerable to Grass types. However, Quaggy may become less underused now, with this new ability. If a Kyogre is using Calm Mind, Thunder, Surf (or some other Water move), and knows Rest instead of Ice Beam, then it wouldn't be able to touch Quaggy.

[Andrew]

I think that Sunkern got the raw deal, the poor thing's stats are still pathetic. <3 SUNKERN 8) But it knows some Drainage moves which is rad cool for Sunkern... for most improved... I'd say perhaps Missy, because its just rad in all ways. lol.

[rinku]

Gengar, definitely. Already immune to 2 common attacks (3 if you count Poison, to which it is practically immune) and picking up immunity to a third, to which it was previously vulnerable? Yum yum.

[Sir Chris]

no improvement in heracross? wtf...

Brick break, swords dance, salac berry at the end. This is BY FAR the most dangerous sweeper. not to mention adamant works like a charm on him. also gengar is pretty good too. Oh, and props to alakazam, a decent pokemon in g/s/c is now the best special sweeper in r/s

its either heracross or alakazam. both good, becoming the dominate pokemon in their attack types.

[Poryhedron]

(Ledian X was talking about improvements new in FRLG. I agree, though, that it's pointless to limit the discussion that way since, aside from FRLG Move Tutors, the improvements for all 251 were there in RS, just not legally obtainable.)

[War Raichu]

I feel Dunsparce has been changed for the better. In G/S/C he was just one of those Pokemon that only filled your PokeDex, but now he's pretty deadly with Serene Grace. You could give him a paralyzing attack, Headbutt, and two other attacks with added effects and have an Annoyer right there. Paralyze the opponent, then just keep Headbutting them! Most likely, you're gonna get a flinch.

Also, because of the new rare berries (the Liechi and those from Colosseum), you can gain an advantage with Endure-Reversal by attaching either a Liechi or Salac Berry to raise your Attack or Speed respectively, then when you Endure the hit to 1 HP, your Attack/Speed will be raised, allowing you to completely own the opponent if they're anything other than Psychic, Ghost, Grass, Flying, etc. (and if the opponent is anything Fighting sucks at hitting, then you'll most likely have a counter attack, anyway).

I'm a little sad, however, about Typhlosion's change. He no longer has the ability to learn Thunder Punch, his only defense against Water types. Now the torch (ironic, no?) has been passed to Sunny-Beaming Houndoom. *Thinks about training a Houndoom.*

[titandude21]

for RS in general, Weezing got a huge boost w/ levitate, and now has 0 physical weaknesses

magneton got a huge boost for being anti-skarm

alakazam got a huge ++ for synchronize/calm mind

blissey got happier w/ natural cure

houndoom got a lot better w/ flash fire

Choice Band made Dodrio usable

Gengar got a whole lot of stuff... levitate, sub, etc.

Gyarados can make use of its attack w/ EQ and DD... a lot of pokemon got EQ, and a lot got sludge bomb as well, like crobat.

Omastar is used more often w/ Swift swim

Wobba became fugly w/ shadow tag and encore

for FRLG, pokemon that made good use of Swords Dance, T-Wave, and Substitute were the biggest beneficiaries. special sweepers got a raw deal.

heracross is kickin' rad w/ Swords Dance and Salac

[AKA Pokemon Fan]

Yanma is one of the most improved Johto Pokemon I think, provided you get a LG/FR one with Hypnosis.

Look at this:

Yanma@Liechi Berry/Focus Band/Lum Berry/whatever fits best for the team
Jolly personality
Ability: Compoundeyes
Effort points: Put them all into Attack and Speed
Moves:
Hypnosis
Screech
Signal Beam
Shadow Ball/HP Ground/HP Fighting/Steel Wing

With Compundeyes its Hypnosis is 90% accurate. Sure, Butterfree's Sleep Powder is even more accurate, but here's the clincher. YANMA GETS SCREECH. Not to mention it is tons faster. Send it out, put the opponent to sleep, use Screech, and then deal massive damage with one of your attacks. One or two Screeches can fell almost any Pokemon, even against Yanma's poor Attack. If the foe switches it still gets hit by Screech, and with a Speed of some 317 with a Jolly personality, Yanma will be fast enough to hit almost any Pokemon with a Hypnosis before it can get hit. Only Pokemon with Vital Spirit or Insomnia would be immune. Sure it's not the best Pokemon out there but it certainly has improved.

Ariados has improved as well. Getting Swarm means you can afford to get low on HP while using Agility, then do serious damage with Signal Beam before going down.

Come Fire Red/Leaf Green, you'll find many other Johto Pokemon have been improved as well. For one, Feraligatr and Meganium can both learn Swords Dance via the move tutor (Meganium could originally by breeding, but couldn't get Swords Dance and its best bred move Ancientpower at the same time). Plus Typhlosion can learn Rock Slide via Move Tutor if I recall right, helping it considerably.

[Rudoku]

Yanma .

Hello friend! :wave:

I really wish that this was about the Kanto pokemon, too. But I have to give my least improved vote to Miltank. Sure, it's more resistant to fire and ice attacks, but I don't think anything special happened to it.

[AKA Pokemon Fan]

Hello friend! :wave:

I really wish that this was about the Kanto pokemon, too. But I have to give my least improved vote to Miltank. Sure, it's more resistant to fire and ice attacks, but I don't think anything special happened to it.
*waves back* :wave: Anyway, I'd say a tank like Miltank getting two more elementals that do half damage is a nice improvement. Also, through Fire Red/Leaf Green move tutors Miltank can now get Rock Slide and Thunder Wave, plus the Substitute/Focus Punch combo. It is also (through breeding) one of the few Pokemon that can still learn Sleep Talk. :sleep:

[Gligar_Man]

cloyster can finally explode again, ;(

[Rabid_Cow]

Definetally Ariados. He was my favorite pokemon in GSC and is now again my favorite! Here's his M/S:

Ariados @Salac
-Signal Beam
-Sludge Bomb
-Spider Web
-Baton Pass

This guy is HUGE! SB for possibly all stats up. Salac kicks in for an extra bonus w/BP, and SW + BP is huge for all my buddies that just love to switch out their fire pokes when they see a water poke hit the field.

[Poryhedron]

Hmm...baton pass can preserve a Spider Web or Mean Look on the opponent? Interesting...I can think of some ways that could be useful.

[Rabid_Cow]

When I had a female Eevee I bred Baton Pass onto it, and had a mean lookin/Baton Passin Umbreon. It was a little more sturdy than Ariados, but I still love the glory points I get from trappin an opponent with a spider. :lol:

[AKA Pokemon Fan]

Definetally Ariados. He was my favorite pokemon in GSC and is now again my favorite! Here's his M/S:

Ariados @Salac
-Signal Beam
-Sludge Bomb
-Spider Web
-Baton Pass

This guy is HUGE! SB for possibly all stats up. Salac kicks in for an extra bonus w/BP, and SW + BP is huge for all my buddies that just love to switch out their fire pokes when they see a water poke hit the field.
Hate to point this out but its Silver Wind that can raise stats, not Signal Beam. Signal Beam does have a nice confusion rate though.

My favorite idea for an attacking Ariados set (haven't tried it yet) would be this, it requires Fire Red/Leaf Green move tutors:

Ariados@Liechi Berry
Agility
Substitute
Signal Beam
Hidden Power Ground/Body Slam/Sludge Bomb

Agility once to get your Speed on par with other Pokemon, then Substitute so that you can be more sure to activate Liechi and Swarm without getting knocked out. 50% Swarm Boost to Signal Beam + 50% Attack boost with Liechi=major damage. Sludge Bomb may get STAB but it isn't truly needed as it adds no real strength, Signal Beam is strong against Grass, and Ariados needs a move or two to combat types that Bug attacks don't do well against. Good luck getting Hidden Power Ground at full strength without a cheating device however. ;)

[drizzt]

I think Scizor has improved alot since he able to use Silver wind. I can wait to use him in fr/lg.

I also think gengar has improved alot with his ability. The only thing that can hurt him is psychics and not many are faster than gengar.