How cosmopoliton is TPM?

[Darien Shields]

Just wondering, kinda like that guy (http://joshlesnick.com/) I always feel like hiding some lesbians in my fics (just kidding. No really), so I was wondering what the TPM attitude towards the subject was. Since Romance on a whole seems to be left out, maybe it's redundant.

[mr_pikachu]

I actually have seen some writers venture into that on TPM, but those fics usually don't last very long. I've considered it once or twice myself, but I don't know if I'd ever actually do that. Besides, if I put something like that in an actual book, I'd get blasted by every reviewer in the media. Seriously. So I doubt I'd ever do that. But I dunno...

And romance wasn't so forgotten a year ago. When the Shipping (relationship)forum was still around, half the posts there were in shipping fics. But since it was destroyed by the admins, it has been left out a bit. I try to add some in my stories, but with little success, apparently. *blushes* Hey, at least I tried!

*runs away* :wave:

[Suite Madame Blue]

Yes, Timarelay's Three Couples fic from a few years ago immediately comes to mind. Her Ash/Gary ship was extremely well-done. For me, as long as a character is well-written, it doesn't matter whether they're gay, straight, or whatever. I voted for the "spices things up" category, but it doesn't even have to be a sexual thing.

As I remember, the Shipping Forum was eliminated soon after the 1,000-page Shippers' Prom, although that may not be why. It's too bad, because it was a good resource for all the romantic options available.

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

I'm just wondering why you felt the need to add a little sarcastic aside to the last poll option

You wouldn't really take any notice, because that's completely normal. (Be honest, you don't think that, do you?)

Why *wouldn't* we think that? I think it's completely normal, and so do most people I know. Why did you think we wouldn't?

[Gavin Luper]

Personally I would never do it myself, simply because it's something I'm not fazed about. If a gay couple or whatever comes up in a fic I'm reading and it's a good fic, I'll read it I guess, but I'm not going to go searching for it, nor can I say I'm entirely comfortable with it, but hey, that's just me. What I'm saying is, it doesn't make a fic better in my opinion and it doesn't make it worse.

And yet, if it was a heterosexual couple it probably would make it better for me ... I guess, hypocritical as that will sound to some people, it just comes down to what you are like and what you believe in and are comfortable with.

Also, Blackjack Gabbiani, I'm pretty sure Darien didn't want to start a Gay-bashing topic, he was just expressing his opinion, so don't get worked up about it.

Cheers!

[mistysakura]

I chose the "spices things up" option. Yes, I think nothing's wrong with homosexuality, but of course it's something out of the ordinary if two people of the same sex start going out in a fic. I mean, it's not exactly common to put homosexual couple(s) into a fic. If done well, it can make a good plot twist, and can add to the originality of the fic. However, if done distastefully... yeah, basically the same thing as with heterosexual relationships, it all depends on how the author handles it.

[Darien Shields]

I'm just wondering why you felt the need to add a little sarcastic aside to the last poll option

You wouldn't really take any notice, because that's completely normal. (Be honest, you don't think that, do you?)

Why *wouldn't* we think that? I think it's completely normal, and so do most people I know. Why did you think we wouldn't?


The last option is indeed the "right" one, however, I feel that honestly, it should not be chosen. If I saw a homosexual couple, I would definately not just think 'that's ordinary, commonplace', etc. etc. I would think it unusual (I voted for spices things up), because I just don't see that kinda thing very often, and even in society I rarely meet couples like that. Maybe one day I will be able to choose that last option, but as is, I don't think anyone can.

[Oakbark]

Gay characters are fine, but just to remember that because it's different it doesn't give you the right to be graphic or anything like that. Like above, romance between any two people is fine if it's done okay. Personally, though i'm straight, it would be interesting to see it being pulled off in a fic. Good idea to pull readers. Their attentions obviously....;)

[PancaKe]

Homo characters are normal *Shrugs* thats just the society we live in. I personally wouldnt reallythink much of it. If girl and girl are going out *shrugs* no big difference to a guy girl relationsip except they both pee sitting down. Its' not really a big "ooooh wow" thing for me. I dont really care.

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

Gay characters are fine, but just to remember that because it's different it doesn't give you the right to be graphic or anything like that.

Just a question, and I've seen this before--why do you give that warning? Would you give it in a topic about straight characters? Do you think there's inherently a difference other than the orientation?

[Suite Madame Blue]

Historically, gays have been seen as promiscuous. Keep in mind that it's only gay men who are seen in this light. Before the 70's they were essentially forced by society to remain in the closet. Because they didn't have "gaydar" to speak of, they mostly made fumbling attempts at sexual unions with what turned out to be straight men. My mom told me my dad was hit on in the 40's. They were considered weak-willed by most, as though their orientation was a choice. They finally started coming out during the disco era, which was also the sexual revolution. While straights eventually abandoned their multiple partners and got married, gays didn't have the marriage option. Add to that the fact that when AIDS first came to the US in the early 80's, the media portrayed it as a gay disease that spread so quickly because all gays had multiple partners, etc.

It's not inherent to being gay, it's an assumption that persists in our culture. Interesting that gay men, and not lesbians, get the bad rep.

[Iveechan]

That's because straight guys love hot girl on girl action for some reason. I've never read many shipping fics because romance isn't my thing, but I feel that sometimes authors make same sex ships just to get some sort of reaction or seem special. Just wondering, how many people are actually serious about same sex ships (by serious I mean that you feel that the couple really could go together and not just slapping any two characters together).

[achooxp]

Though I don't necessarily believe that every love is love as nature would have had it, all love is sweet... until it becomes an obession. But yeah, it spices things up a bit, I think. But it's kinda sad that these characters are considered to be more a type of character than an actual character in and of themself. People interested in reading pretty good stuff with homosexual characters ought to check out Michael Cunningham, author of both "The Hours" and "A Home at the End of the World."

[Darien Shields]

:lol:, it's true, it's true, but I don't know what you're saying Iveechan, you're the one who dreams of 'hot' hitmonchan-on-hitmonchan-action.

As for who would actually fall for each other, I can't say I think much about this. Usually I imagine two characters, and think of them as a couple from the get-go, creating a romantic link (and reasons for them to fall in love, I suppose) from there on in. The truth is that I don't know what would really draw two people together, whether straight or otherwise. I think most relationships (regardless of sexuality or gender) have a "femenine" and a "masculine" partner, or submissive and dominant. This could even be a submissive man, and a dominant woman (I've seen that sort of thing in dated movies, small mousey men married to large strong women.)

I have been told that some gay men have father-son relationships, and to an extent I had a mother-daughter relationship between Joyce and May in my old fic "Pokemon Kami" (did anyone read that? Did any of you actually notice the hints that they were falling in love?) But I don't know if "mother-daughter" relationships are an actual thing.

Equally I don't know what would make straight characters fall for each other. Amusingly, once, someone in school (who was a Born Again Christian, and devoutly homophobic) was watching 'Big Brother' which he thought featured two gay men. He said "and you just know they're gonna 'do it'", which I found preposterous. I mean, there had been plenty of straight men and women in prior years who failed to "do it". But that guy was weird (the BAC.) As it was, there never was a second gay man, or if there was, he was booted in week one.

I guess I find romantic appeal (whether hetra or otherwise) draws me back to writing, many times I've felt the urge to drop a fic, but feel that it'd be a shame to kill off those characters and their relationship.

I've talked way too much :lol:, so I'll stop. Later!

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

I have been told that some gay men have father-son relationships, and to an extent I had a mother-daughter relationship between Joyce and May in my old fic "Pokemon Kami" (did anyone read that? Did any of you actually notice the hints that they were falling in love?) But I don't know if "mother-daughter" relationships are an actual thing.

That's really more of a seperate issue, really. It's closer to opposite-sex incest that it is to other same-sex relationships.

[Jaffa]

Equally I don't know what would make straight characters fall for each other. Amusingly, once, someone in school (who was a Born Again Christian, and devoutly homophobic) was watching 'Big Brother' which he thought featured two gay men. He said "and you just know they're gonna 'do it'", which I found preposterous. I mean, there had been plenty of straight men and women in prior years who failed to "do it". But that guy was weird (the BAC.) As it was, there never was a second gay man, or if there was, he was booted in week one.


I assume you're talking about the UK Big Brother... Was this the recent series? Because there were two gay men, Marco (an incredibly camp guy) and Dan (a less-effeminate guy who does have his queenie moments) both of whom found neither attractive in anyway (Dan saying he disliked Effeminate, queeny gay guys [suggesting Marco and Dan were one of the pairs put in to clash]), so he was blatently assuming that two gay guys would just do it like that *Clicks fingers*

Moving swiftly back on topic, I would like to see someone pull a gay/lesbian relationship of successfully in a fic. I myself have been trying, but have never got far enough into a fic for it to be shown. (Disheartened by lack of readers and school comitments), but I'm hoping my latest fic, Blind Writing </Shameless Plug>, might work... (I won't be doing just for the sake of it, I like the idea of expanding on new things when writing)... But still it would be good to see a same-sex relationship in a fic, as either a key plot point or a nice little subplot, hence the fact I voted " 'bout time. (Girlfriend!)"

*Runs away to Writing Corner*

[Iveechan]

:lol:, it's true, it's true, but I don't know what you're saying Iveechan, you're the one who dreams of 'hot' hitmonchan-on-hitmonchan-action.

And you think I'm serious about that?

[Darien Shields]

And you think I'm serious about that?

Yes.


That's really more of a seperate issue, really. It's closer to opposite-sex incest that it is to other same-sex relationships.

I didn't mean actual father/son or mother/daughter pairs, you nimrod! It was a mental thing. The older being the parent, who cared for the 'child'. Something like that. Jeeze.

[Darien Shields]

Humm, humm, Sorry for the Double Post.

Just thought that this issue might make a good article for the FFFEz. Anyone who wants to write up the stuff in the topic (rich with their own views, if that is what they want) can feel free, post or PM me the results. The Issue's a little bit behind schedule (which you all probably know by now.)

Come to think of it, I should have considered this for an article before considering it for a post...

[Blackjack Gabbiani]

I didn't mean actual father/son or mother/daughter pairs, you nimrod! It was a mental thing. The older being the parent, who cared for the 'child'. Something like that. Jeeze.

That's certainly not what it sounded like.

[ChicRocketJames]

I wouldn't notice/care. I'm not really interested much in fics which are *just* about a relationship, so if that was the sole focus of the story I probably wouldn't read it no matter what the sexual orientation of the people involved. If the gay characters were just part of a larger story, though, that's cool - so long as they're not just token stereotypes or something stupid like that. In any fic I'd read the characters' sexuality would only be intermittently important anyway - much like my own, where fleeting references have been made to the fact the protagonist is gay, but nothing has come of it yet, as he's currently too busy doing other things to fall in love. That's the way it should be, IMO.

[PancaKe]

The whole fic shouldn't really depend on one characters preference in males or females, unless its a romance, and then even them turning out homosexual shouldnt be what the whole fic is about. A good romance always has some sort of plot to stop the two characters being together or something like that. Fics don't soley depend on the sexuality of a character anyway so *shrugs*

most intelegant comment today.