Pokemon Colosseum in general

[andyizcool]

Do you find this game has no replay value once you've got all the Pokemon and transfered then to Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire? It's like you don't feel like going through the whole story again just for some Pokemon with better Personalities. You could say it has the Cups to do but once they're all over there's nothing left on the game to do really. Battling friends can be done on your GBA without having to be a GameCube and all the link up equipment. You know like the Pokemon Stadium games had the Gym Leader Castle, Mini Games, Pokemon School, and Speeded up Pokemon games on the TV. Don't you feel disappointed about Pokemon Colosseum for only giving you about 20 hours of game play and they call it an RPG?

[Rudoku]

For me, the only replay value any of the Stadiums had were the bonuses you could get(Move Tutor, Special Pokemon, etc.), so it's all the same to me. In Stadium 2(3), the minigames sucked, the school was just an annoyance, and everything cheated, so who cares?

[andyizcool]

In Stadium 2(3), the minigames sucked, the school was just an annoyance, and everything cheated, so who cares?
But you still got more for your money in the Pokemon Stadium games. A lot people should care if they're using their money to buy the game and it's going to waste.

[Rudoku]

But you still got more for your money in the Pokemon Stadium games. A lot people should care if they're using their money to buy the game and it's going to waste.
If you really think about it, no they didn't. Remember, N64 games were 70-80 bucks a pop. But that's not the point. I only bought them for the main draw: battling better opponents than in-game trainers. They delivered. Do I care about something that I won't use? The classroom was a one-shot deal, the only good minigame was the Lickitung game in Stadium 1 (which made that worth the purchase). Faster GB speeds? Dodou mode works for R/B/Y, but Dodrio mode is necessary for G/S/C due to it being very slow in the first place. In Stadium 1, yeah it's great beat R1 and get Dodrio mode for R2 training. In Stadium 2(3), you had to beat the entire game to get Dodrio mode, defeating the purpose of it.

[Poryhedron]

One feature that I found very useful in the Stadiums was the much-expanded Pokédex. Places where you can hook pokémon with a Rod weren't marked in the game's Pokédex until Ruby/Sapphire, but it Stadium 2 I can see where they can be caught, which Rod to use, how common they are, what levels they'll be, and what time of day they can be caught if it matters. It would have been quite nice to have that sort of feature in Colloseum...but guess what? :no:

[Orion]

Probably... it loses much replay value after getting all the Shadows, Purifying and getting Ho-Oh, and it'll lose much more when Fire/Leaf are released. You know, only the 3 GSC starters and maybe Ho-Oh (For regular people, henceforth, people that'll be unable to get the FR/LG Ticket.), and another ones I forgot are Colosseum exclusive. The fact is that Nintendo didn't put enough effort in this game... even so, it's a great game.

The concept of stealing Pokémon is one any game will be able to emulate again, and the concept of actually "Evil" Pokémon is another one... they should be supported, as they make Pokémon more serious and interesting. The Colosseum Cups are few, and there's no Round 2, but I think it's better that way. If only they had made this game closer to Stadium 1... the RPG took off a bunch of what they could have done. But it was nice to have a sight at a 3D Pokémon RPG.

And well, about the Battling part, I'll differ big time. I'd rather spend another small bundle on getting two GBA-GCN Cables in order to enjoy better looking battles...but more important,FASTER battles in Colosseum! The GBA Link Battles are AWFULLY SLOW!!! The text goes in such a slow speed it's sure to make you mad! Certain effects and animations take TOO much time in the GBA (Leftovers, anyone?), and add to that the Link Standby and the slow text...they're TOO SLOW! The relatively small link-up waiting in Colosseum is worth it in order to enjoy faster, better-looking battles. That speed advantage makes Colosseum Link Battles WAY better than GBA Link Battles...again maybe that was fixed in FR/LG, but I still prefer 3D Battles to flat ones, even if the Pokémon look really well in the GBA... and the cables are not that expensive. An extra Transfer Pack was worth an extra Pokémon Stadium...unless you got it second-handed.

Now, I preferred Colosseum over Stadium 2... Colosseum is fair at the very least. As Rudoku expressed, Stadium 2 was a waste. Too frigging long, and the PC Cheated to no end (You: GSC fixed CH Ratio. CPU: RBY Critical Hit Ratio...). Colosseum might abuse 00bers in the final Cups, but that's at least a SKILL Pokémon have, and it'll have the same chances as you. The Stadium 2 not only abused 00bers, but cheated. The biggest frustration of the Stadium 2 is the damn Challenge Cup. I hate this thing so much I better stop it before I start a 5-page long rant! The School and the Mini-Games were OK, though, but well...the game is frustrating at best.

At the end, you can try the Colosseum Cups again in order to practice, and to find a weakness on 00bers. And Colosseum Link Battle>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GBA Link Battle...

[Razola]

Replay value? Hell, I couldn't even finish the damn thing.

[andyizcool]

I'm sure the Pokemon Colosseum AI in Battle Mode do a lot of cheating because everytime they get Critical Hits sometimes maybe without the Scope Lens even. In the Story Mode it seriously bored me because the only thing that kept me going was thinking I would get these Pokemon onto Pokemon Sapphire and get more of the Pokedex filled when I gained the National Pokedex. The thing is once you've played Story Mode you're glad it's over and don't want to play it again. If you look at decent Role Playing Games once you complete them you want to play them again because they were so good.

[Carbonite4]

Do you find this game has no replay value once you've got all the Pokemon and transfered then to Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire?

Word. I beat it 6 days after I got it and haven't played since.

The #1 thing it's lacking is Mini-Games.

[PKMN Master]

Probably... it loses much replay value after getting all the Shadows, Purifying and getting Ho-Oh, and it'll lose much more when Fire/Leaf are released. You know, only the 3 GSC starters and maybe Ho-Oh (For regular people, henceforth, people that'll be unable to get the FR/LG Ticket.), and another ones I forgot are Colosseum exclusive. The fact is that Nintendo didn't put enough effort in this game... even so, it's a great game.

The concept of stealing Pokémon is one any game will be able to emulate again, and the concept of actually "Evil" Pokémon is another one... they should be supported, as they make Pokémon more serious and interesting. The Colosseum Cups are few, and there's no Round 2, but I think it's better that way. If only they had made this game closer to Stadium 1... the RPG took off a bunch of what they could have done. But it was nice to have a sight at a 3D Pokémon RPG.

And well, about the Battling part, I'll differ big time. I'd rather spend another small bundle on getting two GBA-GCN Cables in order to enjoy better looking battles...but more important,FASTER battles in Colosseum! The GBA Link Battles are AWFULLY SLOW!!! The text goes in such a slow speed it's sure to make you mad! Certain effects and animations take TOO much time in the GBA (Leftovers, anyone?), and add to that the Link Standby and the slow text...they're TOO SLOW! The relatively small link-up waiting in Colosseum is worth it in order to enjoy faster, better-looking battles. That speed advantage makes Colosseum Link Battles WAY better than GBA Link Battles...again maybe that was fixed in FR/LG, but I still prefer 3D Battles to flat ones, even if the Pokémon look really well in the GBA... and the cables are not that expensive. An extra Transfer Pack was worth an extra Pokémon Stadium...unless you got it second-handed.

Now, I preferred Colosseum over Stadium 2... Colosseum is fair at the very least. As Rudoku expressed, Stadium 2 was a waste. Too frigging long, and the PC Cheated to no end (You: GSC fixed CH Ratio. CPU: RBY Critical Hit Ratio...). Colosseum might abuse 00bers in the final Cups, but that's at least a SKILL Pokémon have, and it'll have the same chances as you. The Stadium 2 not only abused 00bers, but cheated. The biggest frustration of the Stadium 2 is the damn Challenge Cup. I hate this thing so much I better stop it before I start a 5-page long rant! The School and the Mini-Games were OK, though, but well...the game is frustrating at best.

At the end, you can try the Colosseum Cups again in order to practice, and to find a weakness on 00bers. And Colosseum Link Battle>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GBA Link Battle...

Actually, I found Stadium 2(3) easier than Colosseum's cups o.0

It has very low replay value, maybe I'll play it once more to get some females I didn't and might get a decent Suicune. And yeah, the GBA goes sooooo slow when it comes to link battles.

But I'll have to disagree with Orion. Stadium 2 was the peak in pkmn besides GSC. It was long, but it was sure enjoyable. It required skill, since it had the baby cup (which I love), the poke cup, prime cup with ur prized pkmn from the gb, and the challenge cup, which would finally test ur abilities. I found the school to be very useful to learn few new things such as items combinations, combos, etc, and they were good battles. The Castle, where u got to fight with the 16 gym leaders of Johto and Kanto, and then meeting Red. Then there's the Lab with the pokedex, boxes, trading machine; the Minigames, I found them to be really entertaining... my brother and I used to spend afternoons playing the minigames, the ones with Hitmontop, Mr. Mime, Chansey, Scizor and Togepi! and the best was that u could use your own pkmn from the GB!

Then there are the graphics. Sure, the Colosseum ones look smooth and rounded, but have you seen the attacks? Ancient Power were rocks shooting out of the floor with cool sound and visual effects. Thunderbolt was a nice round jolt of electricity. Safeguard, Light Screen, Reflect, they all looked great. Now they're either little rocks or some electricity hitting the pkmn, or standard colors going up and down. And you could register teams, for all cups, not just one.

To be honest, I expected this game to be a lot better than it is. I'm glad I bought it used for 45 bucks including the link cable... paying the 70 bucks for a new one would have been a waste of money.

[Carbonite4]

But I'll have to disagree with Orion. Stadium 2 was the peak in pkmn besides GSC. It was long, but it was sure enjoyable. It required skill, since it had the baby cup (which I love), the poke cup, prime cup with ur prized pkmn from the gb, and the challenge cup, which would finally test ur abilities.

Yes. Stadium 2 was more satisfying. I beat story mode and realized that I don't care enough to play the stadium cups. Mount Battle was enough for me, actually. If Colosseum had Mini-Games it would be a LOT better, but it doesn't, so...

And getting Ho-oh is a pain in the neck. If you're going to put in a secret like that, they shouldn't make it as tedious. It took me long enough to beat both Story Mode and Mount Battle, and now they want me to do it again? I don't think so.

The reason why Stadium 2 was the best was because it had great replay value and diverse enough cups to make each one not like the rest. It made you WANT to battle.

The reason why Gold & Silver are the best (in my opinion, at least) is because once you beat the game, you still had an entirely new game to play. Again, it had terrific replay value. While you replay an old game (RB), it's completely different (since it's 3 years later). GS offered something unique that RS was lacking. If you could go back to Kanto and Johto it would have been the best, easily. The best part about any game is the replay value. It is the MOST important aspect of any video game.

Take NCAA Football for instance. Because of its Dynasty mode, you can play an unlimited number of seasons with the EXACT SAME opponents and not get bored. Why? Because your roster is always changing. You can watch your players grow. It's like Animal Crossing. While it's basically the same outlined game, it's always different because there's always something to do. The game is ever-changing.

My point is, Colosseum is overrated and only good to rent. Or you can buy it and return it a week later for store credit towards FR & LG. Buy Animal Crossing instead, even though it's several years old, because it's a better game.

[Crazy]

R/S was the best. It wasn't lacking really. I mean it was the biggest world out of the other two. Big deal if it didn't take you back to Johto I hate when people complain about it. I actually like the R/S pokemon they are different.

[andyizcool]

And getting Ho-oh is a pain in the neck. If you're going to put in a secret like that, they shouldn't make it as tedious. It took me long enough to beat both Story Mode and Mount Battle, and now they want me to do it again? I don't think so.
What do you mean again? You need to do Mount Battle in Battle Mode with Pokemon uploaded from Pokemon Colosseum Story Mode. You could trade your Pokemon from Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire into Pokemon Colosseum Story Mode and upload those making it much easier. Remember to get Ho-oh you need all 48 Shadow Pokemon snagged and purified.


R/S was the best. It wasn't lacking really. I mean it was the biggest world out of the other two. Big deal if it didn't take you back to Johto I hate when people complain about it. I actually like the R/S pokemon they are different.
I think Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire is the best Advanced Pokemon game I've played so far. I know Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green are improved versions of Pokemon Red/Blue/Green but with lots of extras. I'll only need Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green to complete my Pokedex on Pokemon Sapphire really because I don't feel like having two Pokemon games with lots of hours on.

[Poryhedron]

Actually, as far as GSC allowing you to visit Kanto, I was a bit depressed at some points by what's happened to Kanto in 3 years. Not just the obvious things, like Cinnabar blowing its top and the Safari Zone closed down, but little things like the loss of Pokémon Tower and Cerulean Cave, the simplification of Victory Road and Mt. Moon, the closing of the Pewter Museum and even Blue's bizarre choice of interior decorating. Even though the average met-in-the-grass enemy trainer was clearly stronger in Kanto, both Misty and Erika bemoan the lack of strong trainers...I suppose it might be because Kanto was added on to a game already as full as the original RBY. If GSC's version of Kanto had been presented by itself it would have felt the way Colloseum does.

[PKMN Master]

Actually, as far as GSC allowing you to visit Kanto, I was a bit depressed at some points by what's happened to Kanto in 3 years. Not just the obvious things, like Cinnabar blowing its top and the Safari Zone closed down, but little things like the loss of Pokémon Tower and Cerulean Cave, the simplification of Victory Road and Mt. Moon, the closing of the Pewter Museum and even Blue's bizarre choice of interior decorating. Even though the average met-in-the-grass enemy trainer was clearly stronger in Kanto, both Misty and Erika bemoan the lack of strong trainers...I suppose it might be because Kanto was added on to a game already as full as the original RBY. If GSC's version of Kanto had been presented by itself it would have felt the way Colloseum does.
I know, it was awful that you couldn't go to those places. I really liked Mt. Moon, it was misterious and whatnot, but they only left it as a mere passage, and they just added a weird shop instead.

And actually, R/S aren't bad at all IMO. They present a whole new world, the largest one indeed. But it would have been nice to have something like GS flashback or whatever. At least know what happened, if this is many years ahead, the same time as RBY or it's just the Twilight Zone o.0 I can't tell for sure, but I think there's only two references to Johto/Kanto in R/S: the first, I think in Oldale Town or Petalburg city, in which a girl tells you that the new Gym Leader Norman brought his family over the Johto Region... and there's a guy in Lillycove City, next to the PCenter that tells you he came from Kanto...

Anyway, I'm replaying Colosseum again, at least I'm having fun to kick Lady Venus' butt and looking for a decent suicune. lol.

[Orion]

I know, it was awful that you couldn't go to those places. I really liked Mt. Moon, it was misterious and whatnot, but they only left it as a mere passage, and they just added a weird shop instead.

And actually, R/S aren't bad at all IMO. They present a whole new world, the largest one indeed. But it would have been nice to have something like GS flashback or whatever. At least know what happened, if this is many years ahead, the same time as RBY or it's just the Twilight Zone o.0 I can't tell for sure, but I think there's only two references to Johto/Kanto in R/S: the first, I think in Oldale Town or Petalburg city, in which a girl tells you that the new Gym Leader Norman brought his family over the Johto Region... and there's a guy in Lillycove City, next to the PCenter that tells you he came from Kanto...

Anyway, I'm replaying Colosseum again, at least I'm having fun to kick Lady Venus' butt and looking for a decent suicune. lol.

Guess you haven't checked that well. In Lanette's house there's a PC that has a Mail from Bill. Here, he says that Lanette's Storage System is better than his, and that he's happy for contributing with its realization. Plus, a Blackbelt around Route 127/128 says that Brawly trained with a Kanto Trainer named Bruno... Jasmine, Pryce and Whitney are among the Contest crowd too...

Oh well, I know everyone has different opinions about the games. I think GSC was the worst of all generations. It might have had way better graphics than RBY, and some awesome Trainers and side-quests, but plot-wise, it's emptier than RBY, and also slower in overall game speed... while Team Rocket is a constant threat in RBY right after the Celadon Hideout, it's a puny and totally fallen Team in GSC. The intromission of the Team in GSC are totally pointless, all of them: "Boo-hoo, we want Giovanni back, thus, we'll make you lose your time with our whinning."

While Crystal added a great storyline on the Beasts and Ho-Oh, I think it still falls in comparision with RBY. GSC Pokémon are nice, but the game isn't. And well, when I went back to Kanto, I though: "Damn, another 8 GYMs? What's the point?". You said it yourself, PKMN Master: the original feeling was lost with pathetic excuses. While I was OK with the loss of Cinnabar Island, as it seemed kinda reasonable, the other caves collapsing is totally pointless. Unless the Cinnabar eruption caused a MAJOR Earthquake in the whole Region that caused Mt. Moon, Rock Tunnel, Victory Road, Unknown Dungeon and Seafoam Islands to reduce dramatically in size, or collapse, it's totally pointless. Man, even Team Rocket butts in with the stupid Generator thing.

The Safari Zone closing is another stupid excuse for memory shortage. Man, they should've made Johto bigger and deeper instead of fitting a crappy Kanto in it... oh well. RS is HUGE and an awesome game in comparision with this sub-par generation. The Teams might be pointless in a way (Most people thinks that, I don't know why...), but they're more threatening, almost like the RBY Team Rocket. Come on, they ALMOST reached their vision of the perfect world, but couldn't control the wrath of the Mythical Pokémon. The plot is a bit deeper, and it's nice overall. Instead of the plains-forest-caves trend we had on RBYGSC, we now see Deserts, the deep ocean, a Volcano, falls, and overall more varying scenario. Everyone thinks differently, but I'm glad RS didn't have another friggin' Region. It's a pretty long game by itself, and having another useless trip just to beat the Legendary Trainer is a waste of time, as GSC was...

And well, while Stadium 2 went better in some aspects compared to Stadium 1, I enjoyed the latter more... in Stadium 2, you had to pass the friggin' Round 2 to get the Dodrio Tower for GSC (A must with such slow speed in the GB...), and the prizes weren't as good as the RBY ones. I agree that the Move relearner was a good thing, but we have that already in the RS Games... the Farfetch'd with Baton Pass: pfft. The Gligar with Earthquake was OK, but still: pffft. Stadium 1 gave you 1-shot Pokémon like the Starters, Fossils, Hitmons and Eevee. The Amnesia Psyduck probably was a waste, but it was acceptable, at least in the RBY days.

Now, on your Challenge Cup comment: HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!*Ahem*HAHAHAHAHAHA! Test your Skills? you MUST be kidding. You probably had LOADS of luck and foolishly thought it was actually testing your skills. Yeah sure... first, in this damn Cup, you have to HOPE getting an acceptable Team (Not even good Team...), then you MUST hope the CPU doesn't gets its constant Critical Hits and its friggin' lucky Status inflictions. I was Frozen once, in the 7th Round, with that damn Clefable's Tri Attack... it froze my CHARMELEON, and if he hadn't gone frozen, I'd have won! COME ON. It could Paralyze, Burn or Freeze. It froze me, the ONLY Status that could help it in that moment. That's not Skill, that's SHEER LUCK! Then, your Teams oftenly suck more than theirs, and they have better moves all the time. Even in Mirror Matches, they're faster and stronger. That's not fair AT ALL, they put you in a friggin' impossible corner, where you must pray for luck, not Skill in order to win. Luck is a factor in the Pokémon Battles, but it's the MAIN factor in Challenge Cup. I'm fairly skilled at Pokémon Battles, but my Luck sucks. What reflects my 37 tries at Challenge Cup's Ultra Ball and 18 tries at Master Ball? Lack of luck, NOT lack of skill.

The other Cups tested your actual skills. Little Cup was the hardest one, as you had to use puny Pokés, and have fairly good Stats to get the edge over your opponent... it wasn't much more than Elemental Punch Abra and Thick Clubbed Cubone anyway...

GYM Leader Castle, it was OK, I must accept... it was just too long, but still. Never played it as deeply as other play modes, but there's still signs of major cheating. I still remember Red's Suicune, whose Hidden Power changed Type to be Super Effective against ANY Pokémon you sent out...

The Rival wasn't hard. Since 00bers had the drawback of being two weak to Rock, it was a piece of cake. Lugia and Ho-Oh fell to my Sword Dancing-Rock Sliding Mew, and Mewtwo was always prey for Golem's Explosion.

Still, I think Colosseum is a better game. I haven't battled that much, but as far as I've gone, I've found it's still fair. It doesn't has the evident luck outbalance Stadium 2 had. Maybe 00bers are harder because they're more variated in Type. While the old 00bers were easy prey for Rock and Explosion, those seem to be harder contenders. And if we go for Replay Value, train your Pokémon there, as Trainers are stronger than in RS (Another thing that'll be useless with FR/LG...), get Pokécoupons , Pinch Berries, Items... there's much to do in this game. Well, it's a matter of opinion in the end anyway... Colosseum had the chance to be a way better game, but it was overshadowed by lack of support from Nintendo's part, and the release of a superior game that makes Colosseum a filler at best: FR/LG...

[Xenesis]

My god. that's a behemoth post. (I actually read that whole thing)

While I disagree with you about GSC (Apart from the play speed, it IS slow), I'm in no mood to argue.

I agree with the sentiments about Stadium 2. That thing had luck-hacking skills to the extreme. Not only in the battles, but with the frigging mystery gift as well..(I swear, she's gotten like 3 miracleberries and 3 scope lenses and I've gotten none! It aint' fair!)

Although, with the prizes, to be fair, GSC had Ditto + breeding, so rares were not needed at all, in that sense. And yes, the special move pokemon sucked. Now an Aeroblasting Pidgey or Fearow, THAT would be cool...but they chose pokemon that almost no one likes.

Colosseum is a very well fleshed out game for a single player experience. If you take it as an FF style RPG, it's great fun AND there's actually something to do after you beat the final boss, with all the Colosseum battles and whatnot. It does cheat a little, but only when you use full heals and the status inflicting pokemon is still out there. It'll try to cause it again the turn you healed it. They also occasionally target pokemon you've just used a revive on when you only have one pokemon in play left. >.>;. But there's none of the blatant CPU super luck that happened in PS2. Thank god I say.

[Silent Dragonfly]

Not just the obvious things, like Cinnabar blowing its top

Where the hell is the volcano in Cinnabar anyway? There's nothing that even looks like a hill there, never mind a massive volcano.

[Poryhedron]

Blaine's Fire Gym was built over it. You kinda have to apply suspension of disbelief because, back in the RBY days, putting a mountain on that small an island wouldn't leave any room for the other buildings.

[PKMN Master]

Guess you haven't checked that well. In Lanette's house there's a PC that has a Mail from Bill. Here, he says that Lanette's Storage System is better than his, and that he's happy for contributing with its realization. Plus, a Blackbelt around Route 127/128 says that Brawly trained with a Kanto Trainer named Bruno... Jasmine, Pryce and Whitney are among the Contest crowd too...
Ok sorry, I forgot about those ones...


Oh well, I know everyone has different opinions about the games. I think GSC was the worst of all generations. It might have had way better graphics than RBY, and some awesome Trainers and side-quests, but plot-wise, it's emptier than RBY, and also slower in overall game speed... while Team Rocket is a constant threat in RBY right after the Celadon Hideout, it's a puny and totally fallen Team in GSC. The intromission of the Team in GSC are totally pointless, all of them: "Boo-hoo, we want Giovanni back, thus, we'll make you lose your time with our whinning."
Yeah, it's all right for everyone to have different opinions, but I have to totally disagree with you... plot-emptier? it has a good story, and deeper IMO. I mean, I love RBY, but it wasn't as extense and deep as GSC. I mean, the Bellsprout tower, the Ilex Forest and celebi, the burned tower lugia and ho-oh, the three legendary dogs that died and were resurected? the quest of the TR to recover their leader dissapeared three years earlier, their attempts to mess with pkmn at lake rage, getting to the new e4 which hade new members, and then to know what happened to kanto three years later? all the changes, who was that guy misty was with in sea cottage, how cinnabar island was destroyed, and the emerge of two new pokemon trainers, one as gym leader and the other as the ultimate trainer? Gee, if that's not a great story, I don't know what it is.


While Crystal added a great storyline on the Beasts and Ho-Oh, I think it still falls in comparision with RBY. GSC Pokémon are nice, but the game isn't. And well, when I went back to Kanto, I though: "Damn, another 8 GYMs? What's the point?". You said it yourself, PKMN Master: the original feeling was lost with pathetic excuses. While I was OK with the loss of Cinnabar Island, as it seemed kinda reasonable, the other caves collapsing is totally pointless. Unless the Cinnabar eruption caused a MAJOR Earthquake in the whole Region that caused Mt. Moon, Rock Tunnel, Victory Road, Unknown Dungeon and Seafoam Islands to reduce dramatically in size, or collapse, it's totally pointless. Man, even Team Rocket butts in with the stupid Generator thing.

The Safari Zone closing is another stupid excuse for memory shortage. Man, they should've made Johto bigger and deeper instead of fitting a crappy Kanto in it... oh well. RS is HUGE and an awesome game in comparision with this sub-par generation. The Teams might be pointless in a way (Most people thinks that, I don't know why...), but they're more threatening, almost like the RBY Team Rocket. Come on, they ALMOST reached their vision of the perfect world, but couldn't control the wrath of the Mythical Pokémon. The plot is a bit deeper, and it's nice overall. Instead of the plains-forest-caves trend we had on RBYGSC, we now see Deserts, the deep ocean, a Volcano, falls, and overall more varying scenario. Everyone thinks differently, but I'm glad RS didn't have another friggin' Region. It's a pretty long game by itself, and having another useless trip just to beat the Legendary Trainer is a waste of time, as GSC was...
Pardon me, but GSC was not a waste of time! R/S is great, I'll totally give you that, but you can't be biased only because of few things, I mean, yes, they could have made Johto bigger, but I think they intended it ot be a sequel of RBY. They did stupid things, such as creating a very standarizable (is that even a word??) metagame, which btw got standard, but added a lot of many great stuuf you couldn't even dream about in RBY!


And well, while Stadium 2 went better in some aspects compared to Stadium 1, I enjoyed the latter more... in Stadium 2, you had to pass the friggin' Round 2 to get the Dodrio Tower for GSC (A must with such slow speed in the GB...), and the prizes weren't as good as the RBY ones. I agree that the Move relearner was a good thing, but we have that already in the RS Games...
Yeah, but we did not have it with GSC until stadium 2, did we?


... the Farfetch'd with Baton Pass: pfft. The Gligar with Earthquake was OK, but still: pffft. Stadium 1 gave you 1-shot Pokémon like the Starters, Fossils, Hitmons and Eevee. The Amnesia Psyduck probably was a waste, but it was acceptable, at least in the RBY days.
So? in GSC you could breed for all of those, and could even control their IVs to get pkmn with decent stats, great movesets, and as many as you wanted from the one you wanted! And you wouldn't have to be praying to get the one you wanted, and let alone to have good stats.


Now, on your Challenge Cup comment: HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!*Ahem*HAHAHAHAHAHA! Test your Skills? you MUST be kidding. You probably had LOADS of luck and foolishly thought it was actually testing your skills. Yeah sure... first, in this damn Cup, you have to HOPE getting an acceptable Team (Not even good Team...), then you MUST hope the CPU doesn't gets its constant Critical Hits and its friggin' lucky Status inflictions. I was Frozen once, in the 7th Round, with that damn Clefable's Tri Attack... it froze my CHARMELEON, and if he hadn't gone frozen, I'd have won! COME ON. It could Paralyze, Burn or Freeze. It froze me, the ONLY Status that could help it in that moment. That's not Skill, that's SHEER LUCK! Then, your Teams oftenly suck more than theirs, and they have better moves all the time. Even in Mirror Matches, they're faster and stronger. That's not fair AT ALL, they put you in a friggin' impossible corner, where you must pray for luck, not Skill in order to win. Luck is a factor in the Pokémon Battles, but it's the MAIN factor in Challenge Cup. I'm fairly skilled at Pokémon Battles, but my Luck sucks. What reflects my 37 tries at Challenge Cup's Ultra Ball and 18 tries at Master Ball? Lack of luck, NOT lack of skill.
Uh huh, it tests your skill. Hence the name Challenge Cup. Of course, luck played a major role in getting a good team, but the rest was up to you. Choosing carefully what pokemon would go into battle from the ones you got, and be smart enough to work with the moves and types you had. I know it was hard, and yeah, the computer cheated! it took me about 20 tries more or less on each cup, but I still liked the game! It gave you the chance to try different things, and perhaps learn a good thing or two about how to battle.


The other Cups tested your actual skills. Little Cup was the hardest one, as you had to use puny Pokés, and have fairly good Stats to get the edge over your opponent... it wasn't much more than Elemental Punch Abra and Thick Clubbed Cubone anyway...
Actually, there's why you're biased again. Why try with the most common thing? I didn't take more than Meowth, Natu, Houndur and Staryu to get through it. The final pokefan with chansey/ghastly was a pain in teh butt, but still, it was pretty cool.


GYM Leader Castle, it was OK, I must accept... it was just too long, but still. Never played it as deeply as other play modes, but there's still signs of major cheating. I still remember Red's Suicune, whose Hidden Power changed Type to be Super Effective against ANY Pokémon you sent out...
Starmie/Lapras > Suicune


The Rival wasn't hard. Since 00bers had the drawback of being two weak to Rock, it was a piece of cake. Lugia and Ho-Oh fell to my Sword Dancing-Rock Sliding Mew, and Mewtwo was always prey for Golem's Explosion.
Yeah, piece of cake. Felt bad for his pkmn though... AHHH! which makes me remember, that part of the storyline too, remember the current allusions to a trainer that misstreated his pokemon?? that was sure deep.


Still, I think Colosseum is a better game. I haven't battled that much, but as far as I've gone, I've found it's still fair. It doesn't has the evident luck outbalance Stadium 2 had. Maybe 00bers are harder because they're more variated in Type. While the old 00bers were easy prey for Rock and Explosion, those seem to be harder contenders. And if we go for Replay Value, train your Pokémon there, as Trainers are stronger than in RS (Another thing that'll be useless with FR/LG...), get Pokécoupons , Pinch Berries, Items... there's much to do in this game.
That's pretty much everything to do on that game. That's it. Get females, get berries, get ho-oh, battle with friends from time to time.... that's it.


Well, it's a matter of opinion in the end anyway... Colosseum had the chance to be a way better game, but it was overshadowed by lack of support from Nintendo's part, and the release of a superior game that makes Colosseum a filler at best: FR/LG...
Indeed.

Anyway, you can't biase your opinion on the mere fact of the computer cheating on Stadium2 and how slow the character walks around... denying GSC were good, and at some point the best, at gameplay, features and pokemon, is just not knowing what pkmn is about. So far, at least to me, the only game I've been dissapointed with, is precisely, Colosseum, and you pretty much stated the reasons on your last paragraph.

c ya.

[andyizcool]

I've try some of those Cups on Pokemon Colosseum and they cheat in them too because even my good Teams fail in them. One of my friends got so angry at Pokemon Colosseum cheating in the Cups that he took the game back to the shop. It's like your EV Training means nothing on these Pokemon in the Cups because they must have maximum EVs in all Stats like the cheaters they are. So you have Story Mode and Battle Mode. I play a lot of Role Playing Games and I wouldn't class this as an RPG because of the shortest and lack of fun in the Story Mode. Battle Mode like I've said before is full of cheats who always get critical hits and always dodge every attack you give them or take little damage.

[PKMN Master]

I've try some of those Cups on Pokemon Colosseum and they cheat in them too because even my good Teams fail in them. One of my friends got so angry at Pokemon Colosseum cheating in the Cups that he took the game back to the shop. It's like your EV Training means nothing on these Pokemon in the Cups because they must have maximum EVs in all Stats like the cheaters they are. So you have Story Mode and Battle Mode. I play a lot of Role Playing Games and I wouldn't class this as an RPG because of the shortest and lack of fun in the Story Mode. Battle Mode like I've said before is full of cheats who always get critical hits and always dodge every attack you give them or take little damage.

I know!! I can't remember what battle was, but it was in the lvl 100 cup, the so called supertrainer with Latias... it cost me at least 2 tries and 6 continues, cuz she kept on getting CH's at my pogeys, and the few times I got to that Latias, which I assume has Soul Dew, she managed to set up a calm mind and just sweep my last poke... and kyogre was kinda hard two, it made CHs three times in a row with surf :'( Too bad I didn't have my trustworthy mexicolo to take it down...

[Carbonite4]

What do you mean again? You need to do Mount Battle in Battle Mode with Pokemon uploaded from Pokemon Colosseum Story Mode. You could trade your Pokemon from Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire into Pokemon Colosseum Story Mode and upload those making it much easier. Remember to get Ho-oh you need all 48 Shadow Pokemon snagged and purified.


I beat story mode and Mt. Battle, but independant of each other. I used my RS Pokemon and beat it, got NOTHING for doing so, and then realized I had to purify all the Pokemon and use my story team to beat it. That was the day the music died...er, the day I stopped playing. It would take forever and a day to purify the Pokemon, and I didn't feel like battling 100 times again.

[Chris 2.1]

Now that Emerald seems to have most/all the Colloseum Pokemon, I'd expect Collo sales to plummet even lower. Sudowoodo, Smeargle, Miltank and even the GSC starters can be obtained in Emerald now. Maybe they've realised that nobody wants Colloseum, and incorporated those new Pokemon into the games...

[andyizcool]

The only reason for Pokemon Colosseum Story Mode Shadow Pokemon is the Pokemon GSC Starters are all in it. Whereas on Pokemon Emerald you need to complete the Hoenn Pokedex and you can only choose one of them. I wish I never wasted my £39.99 on Pokemon Colosseum seeing as I found Pokemon Leaf Green for £22.99 which I really want. So it all sums up to Pokemon Colosseum is really only for die hard Pokemon fans who live 3D Battling and random battles with messed up Pokemon.

[Mitch's Bashamo]

I can't believe I wasted my money on PKMN Colosseum

[Gagome]

You forget that you get the three legendary dogs in Colosseum: Entei, Raikou and Suicune.
Sure, you may say they are available in FR/LG too. But you forget that in FR/LG they all have very bad IVs:

HP: xx
Att: xx
Def: 0
SA: 0
SD: 0
Sp: 0

The last four IV values are always 0. It is like the Lati@s in R/S. These values are all preset in the game. I have verified it on my Japanese FR game. The Raikou I caught has HP: 15 and Att: 6. The rest is 0.
So, you can get these dogs with decent (I mean random and most likely better) IVs only in Colosseum.

[Rudoku]

I can't believe I wasted my money on PKMN Colosseum
Well, unless you import, it's not like you'll be getting Emerald anytime soon...

[andyizcool]

Pokemon Colosseum Pre-orders
Japan: Got Celebi Bonus Disc.
America: Got Jirachi Bonus Disc.
Europe: We got nothing extra.

I'm sure if we got a Celebi or Jirachi Bonus Disc we would have been a bit happier but now Pokemon Colosseum looks like a big waste. I don't plan on buying Pokemon Emerald as of yet because Pokemon LG is my next game to try and catch all 386 Pokemon and help Pokemon Sapphire get all 386 Pokemon too.

[Razola]

Colosseum is a very well fleshed out game for a single player experience. If you take it as an FF style RPG, it's great fun AND there's actually something to do after you beat the final boss, with all the Colosseum battles and whatnot
Lime'd because you are on drugs.

If I were to compare the depth of Pokemon Colosseum and just about any Final Fantasy game, it would be like comparing this half bottle of watering on my desk to the deepest oceans in the world.

I'd even go as far to argue that Pokemon Colosseum isn't a true RPG.

[Xenesis]

I said FF STYLE. Sure, it doesn't have the same plot depth as a lot of FF games, but the way the story progresses is similar. You find out about some evil plot and set out to do something about it, saving X in the process. Whee. And while some of the later FF's had deepish plots, you can't say that the early ones really were that deep. And Pokemon has MUCH more depth of gameplay in my opinion than FF games do.

What I mean by FF style is that you have a party of X, you have limited choices. It's more like FF style gameplay as in you have a party and you battle random(ish) trainers. You pick out party members you like out of what you have and you use them through the game. It's not like the GBA games where you have infinite choices and lots of possibilites. Being all double battles you must use your team members to support each other. And so on so forth.

As for the 'true RPG' comment, not much is. You want a true RPG? Go play Dungeons and Dragons.

And, I close with this comment: 'mmm...lime.'

[rinku]

I find it interesting that not one post has mentioned "...and you get to see your pokémon battling in 3D" as a reason for getting colloseum. I would have thought that was pretty much the whole point of the game. I realise they could have done a better job, and many people think Stadium did it better... but GET OVER IT! Stadium doesn't exist if you don't have an N64!

If the only thing you want out of the game are the pokémon, go trade for 'em from someone who bought it.

[Rudoku]

I find it interesting that not one post has mentioned "...and you get to see your pokémon battling in 3D" as a reason for getting colloseum. I would have thought that was pretty much the whole point of the game. I realise they could have done a better job, and many people think Stadium did it better... but GET OVER IT! Stadium doesn't exist if you don't have an N64!

If the only thing you want out of the game are the pokémon, go trade for 'em from someone who bought it.
My point was that the Stadium games weren't great either and Colosseum just cut the crap and went bare-bones with that idea. I didn't buy it for minigames or a Plusle. I bought it for 3-D pokemon.

[andyizcool]

I think Pokemon FR/LG and Pokemon Emerald all having Wireless Battling is much better than battling in 3D on Pokemon Colosseum. Some of the Graphics in 3D aren't as good as some people wanted and prefer the 2D Graphics and attacks. I would also agreed with Raz saying this isn't a true RPG because I play a lot of RPGs and know my stuff but this game isn't very good to be an RPG.

[Rudoku]

I think Pokemon FR/LG and Pokemon Emerald all having Wireless Battling is much better than battling in 3D on Pokemon Colosseum. Some of the Graphics in 3D aren't as good as some people wanted and prefer the 2D Graphics and attacks.
This post doesn't make sense. They can just not buy the thing... The only thing you'd need Colosseum for now are non-crappy IV'd Raikou/Entei/Suicune or Celebi(Japan). I didn't count Jirachi because you only had to reserve it for like 5 bucks, get the disk, and forget about Colosseum (Europe had to go through a Pichu Bros. short and Meowth's Party for days, heh).

[Dogasu]

I said FF STYLE. Sure, it doesn't have the same plot depth as a lot of FF games, but the way the story progresses is similar. You find out about some evil plot and set out to do something about it, saving X in the process. Whee. And while some of the later FF's had deepish plots, you can't say that the early ones really were that deep. And Pokemon has MUCH more depth of gameplay in my opinion than FF games do.

Sorry, but Pokémon Colosseum's plot doesn't progress ANYTHING like a Final Fantasy game's plot does. Final Fantasy games tend to have a purpose, an overall goal. But Pokémon Colosseum? That game just seemed like a random string of events, and while there was a "goal" (stop the Shadow Pokémon plan), it seemed to have been ignored for most of the game. After the initial introductions, the game pretty much degrades to "walk around, fight trainers, walk around, fight more trainers" with very little inbetween to spice things up.

Another big problem I had with Colosseum was the ending, or lack thereof. You beat the final boss, you see Ho-Oh, and then...nothing. Even after you get the final Shadow Pokémon, there are still tons of questions left unanswered. What was Pyrite Town's reaction to the fact that their mayor was the head honcho of the Shadow Pokemon plan? What ever happened to the partner; is she just destined to follow the hero around forever or what? Who is Shady Guy? Why was he going around ruining your reputation? Why DOES Ho-Oh give you its blessing in the first place?

A Final Fantasy game would have answered all those questions. Comparing Pokémon Colosseum to the greatest console RPG franchises on the planet is a massive insult to Square/Enix.

[Xenesis]

A Final Fantasy game would have answered all those questions

So, why after so many years are the plots and other parts of several Square RPG games STILL being debated? *Points to FF6,7, Chrono Trigger, etc.*

If they were so concisely answered, then how come people are still unsure about a lot of several FF games? Why has the debate about these games raged for over 5 years? Does that sound like all questions were answered?

Besides, it is my opinion that colosseum is FF style. When I played the game, that's how it struck me. It felt FFish. You can disagree or whatever, I don't care.

[Dogasu]

So, why after so many years are the plots and other parts of several Square RPG games STILL being debated? *Points to FF6,7, Chrono Trigger, etc.*

There's a difference between a game with an ending that leaves room for interpretation and one that doesn't have an ending at all.

[Razola]

I said FF STYLE. Sure, it doesn't have the same plot depth as a lot of FF games, but the way the story progresses is similar. You find out about some evil plot and set out to do something about it, saving X in the process. Whee. And while some of the later FF's had deepish plots, you can't say that the early ones really were that deep. And Pokemon has MUCH more depth of gameplay in my opinion than FF games do.
Lime'd because you are abusing substances and refuse to stop.

Depth in gameplay? Where? There is zero exploration in Colosseum. None. Squat. Zilch. While just about every RPG out there normally has somewhat large areas to explore between towns, Colosseum just gives you a shitty little cutscene when you go somewhere else. For an RPG, that's downright criminal.

Characters in FF (and many RPGs) generally have many options in development. Check out the system in FF10, that thing was nuts. Pokemon? Linear development. This is not BAD, persay, but it proves that you have either never played any recent FF games or have been sniffing whatever glue Animelee is giving you.

Storyline? Forget it. Colosseum is like a train wreck. It's as if Nintendo wanted a mature story line and then halfway through realized everyone above the age of 13 has stopped buying into Pokemon shit. The whole Shadow Pokemon thing was nothing more than a glorifed happiness meter that was introduced in Gold/Silver.

I also don't recall any sidequests in Colosseum. It was linear to a fault.

[quote]What I mean by FF style is that you have a party of X, you have limited choices.
Yet battles are more dynamic since you aren't limited to two out at a time.


It's more like FF style gameplay as in you have a party and you battle random(ish) trainers.
Please explain how trainers that you can clearly see are random. And closing your eyes and pressing on the analog stick doesn't count.


You pick out party members you like out of what you have and you use them through the game. It's not like the GBA games where you have infinite choices and lots of possibilites. Being all double battles you must use your team members to support each other. And so on so forth.
From the sound of it, it seems like it's more limitedt han the GBA versions. You realize how sad that is? That the Cube version has hundreds less pokemon in the Story Mode? And your "and so on so forth" doesn't count as legititmate argument. Try again, please.


As for the 'true RPG' comment, not much is. You want a true RPG? Go play Dungeons and Dragons.
You know what the definition is. Console RPG. You know, what Nintendo used to try and describe story mode.


So, why after so many years are the plots and other parts of several Square RPG games STILL being debated? *Points to FF6,7, Chrono Trigger, etc.*

If they were so concisely answered, then how come people are still unsure about a lot of several FF games? Why has the debate about these games raged for over 5 years? Does that sound like all questions were answered?
Those games still had conclusions. Good story telling doesn't mean you tie up all loose ends (especially in the game business, where sequels are popular), you just give a satisfying enough conclusion.

It's a testment to their depth that people still discuss the potential outcomes. Colosseum fails to offer a true conclusion, and it's wafer-thin characters aren't worth talking about.

[Xenesis]

Bah.

Fine. Feel big and important that you continue to mock my opinion.

I don't care anymore. I surrender. It's obvious that because I don't agree with your opinion, I deserve to assaulted.

And if you say I'm on drugs one more time, I'm going to get pissed. I don't do drugs, smoke or drink. Leave your accusations elsewhere.

Gee, I thought people were friendly and civilized here. Instead, they continually mock the little guy with a different opinion.

I bid you farewell and hope I never have the misfortune of speaking to you again.

[Animelee]

Gee, I thought people were friendly and civilized here. Instead, they continually mock the little guy with a different opinion.

Don't leave because of Raz. If every person Raz insulted left, there'd be no one left at PokéMasters, LOL. Besides, even Raz said he doesn't take his comments, or the entire Internet, seriously.

[Orion]

Hmmmmm, I smell something around, but anyway. Xenesis, you should really ignore Raz. He's just the king of attention-seeking debates, and argument for the sake of it. His head is like made of Adamantaimai's shell. What makes it even funnier is that he hates Pokémon, yet he's modded at this Forum... oh well. Just ignore him, really. He'll always butt in at Pokémon Forums, trying to "Break it down" to us Fans. And not only that... I could go on, but just for the sake of it, ignore him.

And while I'll seem too Raz-ish with this, I guess I must break it down on everyone that's mocking Colosseum. I must agree that comparing Colosseum to FF is not the best thing to do (Even though FF has lost MAJOR quality in both storilines and Battle Systems, but that's another story.), and I'll just compare it to another Pokémon Games. First off, I've played all Pokémon games, and my previous rant about GSC was just 'cause everyone was like "OMG, GSC und PS2 is teh God!". I really liked the game, but my opinion remains.

First, let's get BACK on Topic, and see what's the reason of being of this thread. It claimed Colosseum had no Replay Value... first, what's Replay Value for you, Andy (Refering to the thread's starter)? Whatever it is for you, I'll break it down like this. Replay Value, or RV stands for:
-What any sort of game has to offer after being "officially" ended.
And
-The capacity of a game to be restarted without getting repetitive or boring.

With this in consideration, ask yourself: how much RV do all Pokémon Games have? For the sake of it, let's compare Colosseum with it's "equals": RBY, GSC, RSE and FR/LG. Let's go back in time, and ask ourselves: did RBY had ANY RV at all? The answer remains in facts. What to do after Elite Four in RBY? Unknown Dungeon (Get Mewtwo.), complete the Pokédex, and make a Team(s) to battle other people. That's it... then it's down to Link with your friends to Battle. That's as much Replay Value as it gets.

GSC? First off, don't count Kanto as the RV part of the 2nd Generation. It isn't! If Kanto was actually optional (Not forced, as it really is.), then it would have been, but not. It's forced, and takes you to the true Champion, Red, leading you to the TRUE Credits on this game. So, after this, let's see... what to do after beating Red? Completing your Pokédex, Play Battle Tower (Crystal only, and that is merely not rewarding, unlike RSE Tower...), and make a Team(s) to battle other people. Again, that's it... then it's down again to Link with your friends to Battle. Close to RBY? It sure is...

RSE? Now we ARE talking! This generation has HUGE RV, but let's see how much. What to do after beating the Elite Four? Battle Tower (And most will just reach 100 Battles and leave with the Gold Shield.), complete your Pokédex (There enter Lati@s, Rayquaza and Beldum sub-quests after EF.), win the five Contests and get painted. With the 4 Trainer Stars, what's left? Make a Secret Base, get Items (For Secret Bases, or Attachments for your Pokémon.). Then, it goes down to filling the National Pokédex, and you're done. You know what's next? Blend Berries, Mix Data, and make Teams for Battles and Contests so you can Link with your friends and play. Emerald just expands it a whole lot more with Battle Frontier and some more extras. In other words, almost endless RV, but still has a peak.

FR/LG? Read RSE, and just add a stronger Elite Four. Yep, that's it...

Now we come at Colosseum. What's left after winning the Realgam Tournament? Catch some Shadow Pokés remaining around (Which involves the sub-quests.), purify'em, get some Items and Pinch Berries, beat the Colosseums and Mt. Battle in Battle Mode, get Ho-Oh, complete your Strategy Guide in your P*DA (AKA Pseudo-Pokédex.). And then? Make a Team for Battling with other people, and use Colosseum as a medium for 3D Battles. Any similarity with previous Pokémon Games is mere coincidence? NO!!!!! Pokémon Games are done like this, and Colosseum is NO exception!

That goes for RV in-game. But now let's get with the other aspect of it: is a Pokémon game worthy of being restarted? The answer is yes, but to a REALLY small exent. The first Restarts will be like "whatever", but after the 5th or 6th, you're starting to get bored. That's why I really hated the old games to be erased on me! I had to restart like 40 times, and that wasn't fun at all! There are many things to try that can encourage a restart (Like mono-type challenges, among other stuff.), but really... Pokémon is one of those games I'm not eager to restart too many times. Losing all of your Pokémon and stuff is really not something you'd like to do. And well, I just restarted Colosseum Story Mode, and I'm enjoying it. At the end, as with most games, Pokémon is not good to be restarted too much. Colosseum also stands in this category...

However, most people claim it's really useless to restart Colosseum, and that it's more boring... why? It's just because you can't get an obscenely high amount of Pokémon, and that your choices are limited? It's because you're so-used to the Pink World the rest of the Pokémon Games have that you feel discouraged when you enter an obscure, low, and monopolized world? Or it's because you're so used to the "Become a Pokémon Master" and "Gotta catch'em all" thinghamaghic that when you see a Region that lacks GYMs, a League, and controlled by an evil organization, Pokémon-Hollow, desertic and the fact you're a Pokémon Robber, you can't stand it? This means you're not ready for the changes, and if a drastic change overcomes the upcoming Pokémon games, you won't be able to stand it and you'll leave.

That takes me to the break-down: are you a TRUE Pokémon Fan? Do you trust your Pokémon and treat'em as if they were real? You play for fun and forget about trivial things like IVs and EVs just to have friendly Battles? Do you LOVE your Pokémon, and when in the verge of Defeat, you trust them to stand back and win? Heck, do you actually Battle via Link Cable or Colosseum? If the answers to most of all of those questions are "No", then no wonder why you mock Colosseum!

You might thing I have no life, and that I'm biased, or whatever, but well... Pokémon is about Trust, Love, and having fun times with your Pokémon. You must get into the character and feel all of this. THAT'S the true greatness of Pokémon. Instead, I just see a bunch of people that think of Pokémon as "numbers", and just battle to be the best at "Calculus", NOT "Pokémon"! If you were so in touch with Pokémon as I am, you would enjoy Colosseum SO much. I swear I could feel the sorrow and sadness of Shadow Pokémon; their artificially-shut hearts pleading to be an open heart for love again. That's why when I purified a Shadow Pokémon, I felt so happy: I helped them on reverting back to what they were, and allowed them to be happy again at my side. They became my trusty friends, and there's something special about them. I helped them to overcome all difficulties, as the Ribbon they proudly port says. That makes them special among all of my other Pokémon...

That's why battling in Online Pokémon Battles is hollow and useless. You MUST be able to be at the side of your opponent, and to see your Pokémon in the middle of a Colosseum. THAT'S the only way to appreciate the true greatness of Pokémon, and not hollow text and static images standing there. In REAL Battles, you can feel the sweat; in Online Battles, it's just chattering...

Only those that think like me will be able to appreciate Colosseum. Still, I must admit it: it's a good game, but not in the level of other Pokémon games. Or Genius really sucks at this, or Nintendo didn't supported Colosseum enough... this game HAD the chance of bringing back the mature audience back to Pokémon, but they failed badly in many aspects. Yep, I'm not THAT biased, I know my stuff. I won't even compare Pokémon to Final Fantasy. I'm comparing Colosseum to all other Pokémon games, and stated facts. As you see, all are very similar. If you can't appreciate it, it's because of other personal issues.

And well, as someone said before, the point of Colosseum IS to have 3D Battles with your friends. The rest comes as an extra (Like in Stadium games...). If you don't like 3D Pokémon Battles, that's fine... you're losing out.

*Expects major unconstructive criticism from non-Pokémon fans and the R man.*

[Poryhedron]

:love2: :yes:
Hear hear!

[Xenesis]

Hurrah.

*Hands Orion a cookie*

Well, I admit FF may not have been the perfect comparison, but then, I never really felt that the FF games were as deep as some people seem to think they are. O.o

And I do agree with you on the point about restarting.

[andyizcool]

First, let's get BACK on Topic, and see what's the reason of being of this thread. It claimed Colosseum had no Replay Value... first, what's Replay Value for you, Andy (Refering to the thread's starter)? Whatever it is for you, I'll break it down like this. Replay Value, or RV stands for:
-What any sort of game has to offer after being "officially" ended.
And
-The capacity of a game to be restarted without getting repetitive or boring.

That takes me to the break-down: are you a TRUE Pokémon Fan? Do you trust your Pokémon and treat'em as if they were real? You play for fun and forget about trivial things like IVs and EVs just to have friendly Battles? Do you LOVE your Pokémon, and when in the verge of Defeat, you trust them to stand back and win? Heck, do you actually Battle via Link Cable or Colosseum? If the answers to most of all of those questions are "No", then no wonder why you mock Colosseum!
I completed Pokemon Colosseum and got Ho-oh from 100 Battles on Mt Battle. After that I downloaded all the Pokemon onto Pokemon Sapphire and gave up on the game because I didn't feel like playing it anymore. Pokemon Colosseum didn't make me replay it in any way but I admit it was a good game as I went through it once. I'm mostly into getting good IVs and EVs for battling against my friend and I don't do Online Battling anymore because like Serebii say it has no soul. I'm not a really big Pokemon Fan like I use to be and I haven't played any of my other games in ages. I've been depressed for sometime so I only play games once or twice now and if I get stuck I quit or if I complete it I quit.

[Razola]

Bring it on, BITCH.


Hmmmmm, I smell something around, but anyway. Xenesis, you should really ignore Raz. He's just the king of attention-seeking debates, and argument for the sake of it.
Strawman and accusation of false motives. Besides, if I'm attention seeking, then why the Hell did you make a page long epic post? Because that's only going to egg me on further.


His head is like made of Adamantaimai's shell.
You have me confused with Animelee or WPM.


What makes it even funnier is that he hates Pokémon, yet he's modded at this Forum... oh well.
I like Pokemon, I'm just not a mindless devotee. Because, I like good games as well. Pokemon Red/Blue = Genius. Gold/Silver = Awesome sequel. Ruby/Sapphire = Lackluster and formula-based. Pokemon Pinball = Damn awesome, both of them. I have no idead why I didn't get the pinball games...

So I don't hate pokemon, I hate what Nintendo is doing to it. There's a key difference.


Just ignore him, really. He'll always butt in at Pokémon Forums, trying to "Break it down" to us Fans. And not only that... I could go on, but just for the sake of it, ignore him.
This is hilarious because you are being hyprocritical. You have one of, if not THE biggest post in this thread, and I bet it's all aimed at me. Last time I checked, THAT'S NOT IGNORING. If you were smart, you'd just PM people your tidbits of stupid assumptions.

Oh, and I also tire of you fan boys "breaking it down" how Nintendo is infallible.


And while I'll seem too Raz-ish with this, I guess I must break it down on everyone that's mocking Colosseum.
As a fan of irony, you have no idea how much I loooooooove this statement.


A lot off stuff about replay.
Replay is useless if those things aren't fun. Beauty contests were just a different kind of battle, and making a secret base wasn't engaging at all. Oh, and the 100 trainer battles aren't much fun since the AI sucks complete and utter ass.


Now we come at Colosseum. What's left after winning the Realgam Tournament? Catch some Shadow Pokés remaining around (Which involves the sub-quests.), purify'em, get some Items and Pinch Berries, beat the Colosseums and Mt. Battle in Battle Mode, get Ho-Oh, complete your Strategy Guide in your P*DA (AKA Pseudo-Pokédex.). And then? Make a Team for Battling with other people, and use Colosseum as a medium for 3D Battles. Any similarity with previous Pokémon Games is mere coincidence? NO!!!!! Pokémon Games are done like this, and Colosseum is NO exception!
It has LESS things to do than Ruby/Sapphire. While I may not find the things in R/S fun, not having them at all in the Gamecube version is insanity. Bigger medium, yet less content. That would be great...if they didn't charge full price.


However, most people claim it's really useless to restart Colosseum, and that it's more boring... why? It's just because you can't get an obscenely high amount of Pokémon, and that your choices are limited?
No, because Colosseum wasn't fun the first time around. Lame AI, car-crash of a story, and pitiful gameplay compared even to the GBA versions. And this is on TOP of more limited options than the GBA verisions. Who wants to replay that?


It's because you're so-used to the Pink World the rest of the Pokémon Games have that you feel discouraged when you enter an obscure, low, and monopolized world?
Since Stadium 1 & 2 had NO named region, this argument is kinda moot.


Or it's because you're so used to the "Become a Pokémon Master" and "Gotta catch'em all" thinghamaghic that when you see a Region that lacks GYMs, a League, and controlled by an evil organization, Pokémon-Hollow, desertic and the fact you're a Pokémon Robber, you can't stand it?
I've already stated why I can't stand it. And Gyms/Leagues are just regular trainer with usually one type at higher levels. Wow.


This means you're not ready for the changes, and if a drastic change overcomes the upcoming Pokémon games, you won't be able to stand it and you'll leave.
Change!? It's exactly like Stadium 1 & 2, only with a story and you have to walk to your next fight instead of everything being auto-mated. HOLY SHIT, MY WORLD IS TOTALLY NEW AND SCARY.


That takes me to the break-down: are you a TRUE Pokémon Fan?
Watch out people, we're about to get a black & white fallacy going.


Do you trust your Pokémon and treat'em as if they were real? You play for fun and forget about trivial things like IVs and EVs just to have friendly Battles? Do you LOVE your Pokémon, and when in the verge of Defeat, you trust them to stand back and win? Heck, do you actually Battle via Link Cable or Colosseum? If the answers to most of all of those questions are "No", then no wonder why you mock Colosseum!
Hey, here's a thought. I play them because they are just fun games. I'm not some sort of extremist who cries when my faint and then proceed to calcuate the 15 new secret numbers Nintendo added so my pokemon can be awesome. I played it because it was a fun RPG. PERIOD. You don't need to think Mario is real or Link is real to be a fan, so why must we follow your insane protocol? A good game is a good game, and Colosseum was not a good game.

I say YOU'RE not a good fan because you're clearly not demanding the best out of the franchise.



You might think I have no life, and that I'm biased, or whatever, but well... Pokémon is about Trust, Love, and having fun times with your Pokémon. You must get into the character and feel all of this. THAT'S the true greatness of Pokémon. Instead, I just see a bunch of people that think of Pokémon as "numbers", and just battle to be the best at "Calculus", NOT "Pokémon"! If you were so in touch with Pokémon as I am, you would enjoy Colosseum SO much. I swear I could feel the sorrow and sadness of Shadow Pokémon; their artificially-shut hearts pleading to be an open heart for love again. That's why when I purified a Shadow Pokémon, I felt so happy: I helped them on reverting back to what they were, and allowed them to be happy again at my side. They became my trusty friends, and there's something special about them. I helped them to overcome all difficulties, as the Ribbon they proudly port says. That makes them special among all of my other Pokémon...
You suck in ways that defy description.


That's why battling in Online Pokémon Battles is hollow and useless. You MUST be able to be at the side of your opponent, and to see your Pokémon in the middle of a Colosseum. THAT'S the only way to appreciate the true greatness of Pokémon, and not hollow text and static images standing there. In REAL Battles, you can feel the sweat; in Online Battles, it's just chattering...
It's not our fault you lack an imagination. Just because YOU are so mentally handicapped you have to have pretty graphics ato enjoy it doesn't mean that other forms of battle are hollow. The rest of us can enjoy the fairly solid battle system regardless of where it's taking place.


Only those that think like me will be able to appreciate Colosseum.
Besides being a horrible, borderline Nazi argument, it's also a good reason why Colosseum: an over-reliance on sub-par graphics to compensate for stiff, lackluster gameplay.


Still, I must admit it: it's a good game, but not in the level of other Pokémon games. Or Genius really sucks at this, or Nintendo didn't supported Colosseum enough... this game HAD the chance of bringing back the mature audience back to Pokémon, but they failed badly in many aspects. Yep, I'm not THAT biased, I know my stuff. I won't even compare Pokémon to Final Fantasy. I'm comparing Colosseum to all other Pokémon games, and stated facts. As you see, all are very similar. If you can't appreciate it, it's because of other personal issues.
I don't see many facts, just you pissing opinions and pyschotic dictates on the walls.


And well, as someone said before, the point of Colosseum IS to have 3D Battles with your friends. The rest comes as an extra (Like in Stadium games...). If you don't like 3D Pokémon Battles, that's fine... you're losing out.
Remember what I said about sub-par graphics compensating for stiff gameplay?

Yeah...a lot of people buy into that. Sad.


*Expects major unconstructive criticism from non-Pokémon fans and the R man.*
This whole post reeked of way too many fallacies and preaching.

[Orion]

Hehe, I knew my Raz Bait would work...:yes: you know, it's always hilarious how you mock everyone that thinks differently than you. Cracks me up like nothing else! That made my day, thanks a lot! :laugh:

I broke it down on everyone, stating FACTS, not OPINION. Your rants are always based on YOUR opinion, which makes them invalid at best. And well, I like to make all my posts worth it, longer than one-liners, and not Postcount++, at what you're really experienced. Oh well, it's impossible to enter in your mind, since you're teh God... some serious Psy stuff there.

Oh nos! I'm becoming another Raz... oh well, this is fun somehow. Now I understand why you do it. Whatever goes your trail. I tend to put lots of my own soul in all my Hobbies, and Pokémon is no exception. Yep, I'm a weirdo in MANY ways, but at least I accept it. And if you hate the 3rd Generation so much, why you come and darken our Forums? Go to GSC and RBY, and leave the RSEFRLGC to those that actually like it. But no, you can't stand being in the past, can you?

This is fun, but I'll stop... as for the rest of you: thanks for the feedback. *Grabs cookie* And don't worry, Andy, I understand your points. And well, sorry in some way for being so harsh. I also mind about EVs, but not IVs, as my luck is awful. EVs I can control...

[Razola]

Hehe, I knew my Raz Bait would work...:yes:
That's not bait, it's called "replying to a post." Bait usually involves making general comments about something. For example, if I was to bait Animelee, I wouldn't just reply to his topic, for that is just replying. I would state "Pokemon suxx0rs" or something like that.


you know, it's always hilarious how you mock everyone that thinks differently than you. Cracks me up like nothing else! That made my day, thanks a lot! :laugh:
I don't mock people that argue like they are sane. Did I ever mock TRO (or at least as much the people on here)? No, because he could get his arguments across at leat like a somewhat intelligent person.

I do, hoever, get a laugh out of reading your fanatic rants, so I guess it's even.


I broke it down on everyone, stating FACTS, not OPINION.
What fact? Let's go over what you said, shall we? You stated that True Pokemon Fans basically roleplay like there's no tommorrow. That your pokemon are only a notch below your pet dog in terms of love and friendship.

This is not fact. It has never been tested and proven in a lab, and it is not widely accepted by the masses. It is your own twisted opinion on pokemon.

You say pokemon Ruby/Sapphire has replay value. This is not fact. It is your opinion that there is a lot to do after words. Others may play games that have a lot more to do, and Pokemon doesn't satisfy their need for after-completion activities.

So basically, you are saying your opinions are facts. And that scares me.


Your rants are always based on YOUR opinion, which makes them invalid at best. And well, I like to make all my posts worth it, longer than one-liners, and not Postcount++, at what you're really experienced. Oh well, it's impossible to enter in your mind, since you're teh God... some serious Psy stuff there.
Ah, this is the part I love. The relevation that you're insecurities are true. So instead of tryng to bolster your opinion, you claw at me like some scared animal in a corner. I have a feeling you didn't even read my previous post. I have a feeling you're not even going to bring up the qualities of Pokemon Colosseum in this post. You're just going to try and attack me the whole way through.

I pray that I'm wrong. Otherwise, that would be a post that doesn't contribute to the topic and hand, and thus isn't really worthy of being here.


Oh nos! I'm becoming another Raz... oh well, this is fun somehow.
If you were becoming me, you would actually stay on topic and ignore the occasional barbs I throw. You see, Ad Hominem attacks actually work for me, because they actually get you off the topic. But when you Ad Hominem me, I see right through your bullshit.

Now get the hell back on topic. Pokemon Colosseum has too little replay value.


Now I understand why you do it. Whatever goes your trail.
God damn, are you STILL going on about this? Look, if you can't properly argue the topic at hand, then just concede.


I tend to put lots of my own soul in all my Hobbies, and Pokémon is no exception.
Wow, don't we all.


Yep, I'm a weirdo in MANY ways, but at least I accept it.
I am a nerd, dork, geek, etc. I have found a niche I feel comfortable in. I suggest you get over whatever personal problems you have and stick to the topic at hand.


And if you hate the 3rd Generation so much, why you come and darken our Forums?
Last time I checked, it's "Discuss other old Pokémon games and new releases (Colosseum, Box, etc) in this forum.", not "Gush and endlessly praise other old Pokémon games and new releases (Colosseum, Box, etc) in this forum. The mocking of our electronic gods are forbidden."

I have a dissenting opinion. That's not against the rules. And I'm the mod here: I know a thing or two about the rules.


Go to GSC and RBY, and leave the RSEFRLGC to those that actually like it. But no, you can't stand being in the past, can you?
You're afraid of a dynamic future, aren't you?


This is fun, but I'll stop... as for the rest of you: thanks for the feedback. *Grabs cookie* And don't worry, Andy, I understand your points. And well, sorry in some way for being so harsh. I also mind about EVs, but not IVs, as my luck is awful. EVs I can control...
In the end, this post accomplished nothing. You just yelled and whined about me, totally dodging the issue at hand.

You lose.

[Animelee]

You have me confused with Animelee or WPM.

Actually, I have no idea who, or what "Adamantaimai" is, as it has nothing to do with Pokémon.


For example, if I was to bait Animelee, I wouldn't just reply to his topic, for that is just replying. I would state "Pokemon suxx0rs" or something like that.

Yeah, that's true, actually.

Anyways, Orion, I do agree with a lot you have to say, but truthfully, even I wasn't fully satisfied with Colosseum. I was 95% satisfied with Ruby/Sapphire, and same with LeafGreen/FireRed. Only Emerald is a truly worthy sequel to Crystal that I'm 100% satisfied with.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Colosseum, but after getting Ho-oh, I traded over everyone to Ruby, and I never entered Story Mode ever again. :( Sad, but true. I only use Colosseum to battle with my brother or friends.

I hope that when the "Stadium/Colosseum" game comes out for the DS generation of games, Diamond and Pearl, that either HAL Laboratories takes over the game production like they did for Stadium 1 - 3, or Genius Sorority works longer and harder than they did on Colosseum.

[PKMN Master]

However, most people claim it's really useless to restart Colosseum, and that it's more boring... why? It's just because you can't get an obscenely high amount of Pokémon, and that your choices are limited? It's because you're so-used to the Pink World the rest of the Pokémon Games have that you feel discouraged when you enter an obscure, low, and monopolized world? Or it's because you're so used to the "Become a Pokémon Master" and "Gotta catch'em all" thinghamaghic that when you see a Region that lacks GYMs, a League, and controlled by an evil organization, Pokémon-Hollow, desertic and the fact you're a Pokémon Robber, you can't stand it? This means you're not ready for the changes, and if a drastic change overcomes the upcoming Pokémon games, you won't be able to stand it and you'll leave.

Yes, the idea of pkmn Colosseum was good, but it was poorly executed. Someone on these forums stated it so perfectly, that I can't find better words for it "Too late, too little"


That takes me to the break-down: are you a TRUE Pokémon Fan? Do you trust your Pokémon and treat'em as if they were real? You play for fun and forget about trivial things like IVs and EVs just to have friendly Battles? Do you LOVE your Pokémon, and when in the verge of Defeat, you trust them to stand back and win? Heck, do you actually Battle via Link Cable or Colosseum? If the answers to most of all of those questions are "No", then no wonder why you mock Colosseum!
Not as much as I did in Stadium 1&2. Of course, being a true pokefan takes a lot of feeling; but to be a real one, you must also understand the inner workings of the game. You can always play for fun, ignoring all math stuff. But if you consider yourself serious, then you should embrace the whole concept.


You might thing I have no life, and that I'm biased, or whatever, but well... Pokémon is about Trust, Love, and having fun times with your Pokémon. You must get into the character and feel all of this. THAT'S the true greatness of Pokémon. Instead, I just see a bunch of people that think of Pokémon as "numbers", and just battle to be the best at "Calculus", NOT "Pokémon"! If you were so in touch with Pokémon as I am, you would enjoy Colosseum SO much. I swear I could feel the sorrow and sadness of Shadow Pokémon; their artificially-shut hearts pleading to be an open heart for love again. That's why when I purified a Shadow Pokémon, I felt so happy: I helped them on reverting back to what they were, and allowed them to be happy again at my side. They became my trusty friends, and there's something special about them. I helped them to overcome all difficulties, as the Ribbon they proudly port says. That makes them special among all of my other Pokémon...
Ok I get your point. But you are doing the exact same thing you're critizicing: you only see one side of the equation, so to speak. Yes, you have to "love" your pogeymans, and yes, you can get really close to them; but you can't just ignore everything else that the game is about. I'm a very inquisitive person: I can apprecciate the beauty of things, but many, many times I just have to know how did they get to be so beautiful. To really apprecciate things, you must understand them. And I didn't enjoy Colosseum that much, precisely because of what I've said; they didn't fulfill my expectations... yes, it's great to help ur little monsters to overcome all difficulties, but then what? the so called story line is so straightforward; you can't get that much into the game. Think of Ocarina of Time. Hands down. The game is just so good, that there can't be any comparisons; there you are involved by the game, you get excited as the story develops, you get in touch with that world. Now, in Colosseum there isn't such thing; you can't get in touch with the rpg world; you only get certain pokemon, no matter how many times you play, and you only get to walk inside towns... anything else to do after the only quest of capture certain pkmn and purify them, and battle with ur friends and complete your RS pokedex.


That's why battling in Online Pokémon Battles is hollow and useless. You MUST be able to be at the side of your opponent, and to see your Pokémon in the middle of a Colosseum. THAT'S the only way to appreciate the true greatness of Pokémon, and not hollow text and static images standing there. In REAL Battles, you can feel the sweat; in Online Battles, it's just chattering...
Nope, it's not hollow nor useless. You can test your abilities as trainer, and also it helps to improve your strategies in real life. Plus, for many people, it's the only way of pkmn interaction.


Only those that think like me will be able to appreciate Colosseum. Still, I must admit it: it's a good game, but not in the level of other Pokémon games. Or Genius really sucks at this, or Nintendo didn't supported Colosseum enough... this game HAD the chance of bringing back the mature audience back to Pokémon, but they failed badly in many aspects. Yep, I'm not THAT biased, I know my stuff. I won't even compare Pokémon to Final Fantasy. I'm comparing Colosseum to all other Pokémon games, and stated facts. As you see, all are very similar. If you can't appreciate it, it's because of other personal issues.
You said it yourself: this game HAD potential, it just didn't get enough support. But still, among other pkmn games, it is inferior in many ways. It kinda lost the essence of pokemon really. Just look at rinku's post. Nobody knows how to relate the Orre region to Japan... and that's been one of the "essencial" things... it's always related to japanese culture.


And well, as someone said before, the point of Colosseum IS to have 3D Battles with your friends. The rest comes as an extra (Like in Stadium games...). If you don't like 3D Pokémon Battles, that's fine... you're losing out.
Actually, I bought it because of the RPG mode. I thought OMG! I get to play with my pkmn, raise them, and fight with them, all in a 3D environment. Nintendo advertised it as the so long expected 3D RPG. But it failed to be a good RPG, and it failed in the Battle mode too. Same graphics as N64, with less visual effects, n00b AI... meh.


No one fears change. But, I agree with Raz in his classification: RBY=teh best. The original. The one game that made us fans. GSC, awesome sequel, with everything else missing in RBY. RS, kind of a step-down in the franchise, which was kinda made up with FR/LG and Emerald... and Colosseum... is the lowest point in pkmn history. This isn't a fact, just an opinion...

[Orion]

Hmmm... it's nice to see some intelligent discussion at last. FYI Animelee, an Adamantaimai is a turtle that appears in many Final Fantasy games. It has the highest Defense of all regular enemies, and its shell is thought to be impenetrable.

Well, now to the point. Actually, I wasn't THAT satisfied with Colosseum either. It's just that I really liked the darker atmosphere, a Team/Organization that actually had something going for them, and well, just flat out a different adventure without the 3 Starters, 8 GYMs and Elite thingy. I'ts OK if you don't appreciate the layout or story which I must admit, wasn't that great as it went on. Unfortunately, no effort at all was put in this game...

Actually, something tells me the Disc wasn't even filled out. There are several things they could've done instead of just "pasting" Stadium 2, adding the new Pokés and fitting a "RPG". One thing that really disappointed me were the graphics. I'm not complaining about them (I liked the Stadium 2 graphics, and the new Pokémon look awesome too.), but they could've done better than just transferring the old Sprites and make kinda sub-par new graphics for the new Pokés. I never consider Graphics vital to any game, as I enjoy games regardless of them (Or sometimes even more than graphic-heavy games, regarding Final Fantasy series.), but a higher amount of effort should've putted.

I say this because, apart from the Steel Pokémon (Whom now reflect light a bit, and you can see it's ACTUALLY metal, unlike Stadium 2.), ALL the other models are the same... this bugs me the most with Raikou. It isn't THAT beautiful to start with, but the 3D Model leaves MUCH to be desired. Also, they butchered Bellossom, my dear one. NO effort at all was put in graphics. At the VERY least, they should've taken the improved Pokémon from Super Smash Bros: Melee and put their high-res models in Colosseum. If Bellossom, the 3 Beasts, and Mewtwo looked like they looked in SSB:M, and they did the same for ALL the old models, this game would've been a lot better, at least visually. Oh well, they were REALLY lazy with the graphics. Even the Trainers don't look THAT well... and while most RS Pokés look good, a handful leaves much to be desired, like Delcatty...

Another thing that was left out and that REALLY hurted the regular Battle scene was that this game, compared to Stadium 2 Battles, fails in comparision. Where went the small but nice details they had back in the days? I mean, the Pokémon "posing" when they jumped out of the Poké Ball? The better-sounding cries? Certain Move effects that looked better in the past? The voice/refree/announcer? The Stadium selection? MANY things are left out. There's also the detail that when a move was not very effective, the attacked Pokémon wouldn't even move. ALL these details hurt the game's attempt at realism. It isn't as if adding a Story Mode, new Move animations and Trainer Graphics wouldn't allow them to leave the old, but nice details. Well, I'm not sure on how much a Game Cube disc can hold, but I think it can have more than Stadium 2 could.

Another flaw was that the conenction GBA-GCN isn't as good as the Transfer Pack-N64 one. Now we must be always with our Team ready in order to battle... while this is not good, it at least solved a BIG trouble in Stadium games. Now you can choose moves and commands in the GBA screen, while in the Stadiums you had to memorize the order of your Team, moves and the buttons that triggered such command if you didn't want your opponent to see. Not complaining about connection time and such, since it's an indirect connection, and the system must be uploaded to the GBA screen. The N64 one was direct and fast... oh well, it has its up and its downs.

Andy said it already: "Pokemon Colosseum is really only for die hard Pokemon fans who live 3D Battling and random battles with messed up Pokemon." You also brought up a point, PKMN Master: "Too late, too little". And that is true, unfortunately. Still I still hold on that this game had SOME nice stuff... but I must accept the cons outweight the pros.

The reason of me defending the few good things this game had is that I didn't enjoy the first 2 Generations at all... be that my Versions always erased on me, or the massive cheating in Stadium 2, or that my friends abused 00bers every now and then. Also, while RS might be formula-based and all this, it riddled away a problem of the past two Generations. In the new Generation, you MUST make an effort to have competitive Pokémon. In the old ones it was just Rare Candy, Vitamins and Box Trick. Only the top-tier Pokémon had a chance there. Now in RS, ALL Pokémon have potential. Some more than others, but with the right planning, Items, EV distribution and OK IVs, plus Natures and Abilities, even the puniest Pokémon can put up a fight. And well, I DO care about EVs (Not IVs, they require too much luck, which I don't have.), but they're still a trivial thing nonetheless. I also agree that, after seeing Emerald features and such, RS look as if they were rushed...

I can't do much but agree with you now... still, this Generation is for the people that always wanted to use their Favorite Pokémon, but couldn't because their Stats wouldn't ever be as good as the Overused ones. After battling in Colosseum Battle Mode, I'm happy that my Bellossom FINALLY can have a chance. Also, this time you must make an effort for having powerful or effective Pokémon. Most of my friends that played with me back in the days were big bad n00bs, but they always won because they used 00bers, and I didn't. It might not be the case for most of you, but they would ignore the Clauses and such... that's my reason behind defending the 3rd Generation and its games: finally, the game won't erase every time, I have the upper hand 'cause I know what to do to have good Pokémon... yep, I know it's biased and everything, but you must accept that Colosseum and RS had many good things. Seems that most have accpeted it, thus, it's my time to accept the cons.

That was (probably) my final rant. I must come to the conclussion that Colosseum wasn't a good game at all, but I can still enjoy it. Peace out, and good discussion for the most part, everyone! :yes:

[Razola]

Hmmm... it's nice to see some intelligent discussion at last.
You were on really thin ice with your rants against me. Next time stay on topic.

[PKMN Master]

The reason of me defending the few good things this game had is that I didn't enjoy the first 2 Generations at all... be that my Versions always erased on me, or the massive cheating in Stadium 2, or that my friends abused 00bers every now and then. Also, while RS might be formula-based and all this, it riddled away a problem of the past two Generations. In the new Generation, you MUST make an effort to have competitive Pokémon. In the old ones it was just Rare Candy, Vitamins and Box Trick. Only the top-tier Pokémon had a chance there. Now in RS, ALL Pokémon have potential. Some more than others, but with the right planning, Items, EV distribution and OK IVs, plus Natures and Abilities, even the puniest Pokémon can put up a fight. And well, I DO care about EVs (Not IVs, they require too much luck, which I don't have.), but they're still a trivial thing nonetheless. I also agree that, after seeing Emerald features and such, RS look as if they were rushed...

I'm surprised. RBY and GSC are the versions that are most within my good memories... I didn't use 00bers, but regular pokemon. But I enjoyed them so much...


I can't do much but agree with you now... still, this Generation is for the people that always wanted to use their Favorite Pokémon, but couldn't because their Stats wouldn't ever be as good as the Overused ones. After battling in Colosseum Battle Mode, I'm happy that my Bellossom FINALLY can have a chance. Also, this time you must make an effort for having powerful or effective Pokémon. Most of my friends that played with me back in the days were big bad n00bs, but they always won because they used 00bers, and I didn't. It might not be the case for most of you, but they would ignore the Clauses and such... that's my reason behind defending the 3rd Generation and its games: finally, the game won't erase every time, I have the upper hand 'cause I know what to do to have good Pokémon... yep, I know it's biased and everything, but you must accept that Colosseum and RS had many good things. Seems that most have accpeted it, thus, it's my time to accept the cons.

Ok, one last comment. Colosseum wasn't what they promised, they just showed us one game made with rush, and left out many of the good things accomplished in past generations. That's why, as a serious player and as a pokefan, I don't like colosseum.

[andyizcool]

I wanted all the Legendary Beasts, Espeon, Umbreon, and Hitmontop again quickly for Pokemon Leaf Green so I looked back to Pokemon Colosseum. I haven't played this game in months since I first bought it back when it was released into the UK. I can't stick with it to get these Pokemon I need for Pokemon Leaf Green because the Story Mode just bores me too much and annoys me. I had a go at Battle Mode with my Pokemon FR/LG Team only to find out they still cheat and the battles aren't that good. The only thing I would recommend Pokemon Colosseum for is 3D Pokemon Battles or the pre-owned shelf. I would like to test out Wireless Battles on Pokemon FR/LG more than 3D Pokemon Battles that Pokemon Colosseum has to offer right now too. I also feel the same as Orion about Pokemon Emerald that they rushed Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire because they could have added so much more like there is in Pokemon Emerald.

[rinku]

I'd beg to differ about the "rushed" nature of R/S. When they developed R/S they were already putting a whole lot of new stuff out that had never been seen, and new versions of old ways of doing things (like the pokémon status screens). Feedback from R/S was obviously used to improve FR/LG (i.e. the improved pokédex etc) and further feedback from FR/LG and R/S seems to have been used to improve Emerald. There's 2 years between the release of R/S and Emerald, and in that time we have also seen the development and release of Colosseum, the Gameboy SP, the wireless adaptor and the upcoming DS (which will be out before the US release of Emerald). Some of these things would have been anticipated when Ruby and Sapphire was being developed, but I reckon they did a superb job of delivering a pair of balanced, enjoyable and addictive games.

Having said that, I'm sure they looked at some game options (like animated sprites) and said "We'll hold off on that for the special edition cart". Let's face it - without loads of extras, special edition carts don't sell. That's not rushed production either, but typical pokémon trickle marketing.

I agree that Colosseum is genuinely a rushed job, but am with Orion in being able to enjoy it while wishing it were much more.

[PKMN Master]

I'd beg to differ about the "rushed" nature of R/S. When they developed R/S they were already putting a whole lot of new stuff out that had never been seen, and new versions of old ways of doing things (like the pokémon status screens). Feedback from R/S was obviously used to improve FR/LG (i.e. the improved pokédex etc) and further feedback from FR/LG and R/S seems to have been used to improve Emerald. There's 2 years between the release of R/S and Emerald, and in that time we have also seen the development and release of Colosseum, the Gameboy SP, the wireless adaptor and the upcoming DS (which will be out before the US release of Emerald). Some of these things would have been anticipated when Ruby and Sapphire was being developed, but I reckon they did a superb job of delivering a pair of balanced, enjoyable and addictive games.

Having said that, I'm sure they looked at some game options (like animated sprites) and said "We'll hold off on that for the special edition cart". Let's face it - without loads of extras, special edition carts don't sell. That's not rushed production either, but typical pokémon trickle marketing.

I agree that Colosseum is genuinely a rushed job, but am with Orion in being able to enjoy it while wishing it were much more.
Yes, they did add many things to RS, in fact, they totally changed the metagame... from what I've read, you were not around in GSC times... battles were pretty much stall wars, and they got boring at some point... the new battling style changed many things. Now battles can last only 6 or 7 turns, while it would have taken at least 30 in GSC. But they left many things unfinished. Like with the berries that take off evs, those are the most precious thing ever! and also the IV heritage was fixed, among other things...

and what I mean with stepdown, is that they took out many features of GSC, time, cell phone, day-night, two worlds... they made up for that up until now with FRLG and Emerald...

[rinku]

and what I mean with stepdown, is that they took out many features of GSC, time, cell phone, day-night, two worlds... they made up for that up until now with FRLG and Emerald...

You can be sure that every feature they took out of GSC, they had a reason - none of them really impacted in terms of game resources. For example, I know that there had been a lot of negative feedback about the screen being too dark to see at night (Keep in mind that R/S was developed for the original GBA - no lit screen). These days they can assume a lit screen and develop accordingly.

Time was not removed from R/S - but I agree it was odd they didn't add a display clock (apart from going to your room). Perhaps the fact that GBAs don't actually keep very good time had some bearing on them downgrading that feature? There may have been complaints about kids staying up to midnight to get 12:00am events as well.

As for not including Kanto & Johto... chalk that up to a growing realisation that if they kept doing that with every release, that's pretty much all they'd have room for.

[Aarkan]

For what it's worth I genuinely enjoyed Colosseum. I got the 3D pokemon RPG I dreamed of and it played out with a unique leveling and capturing system as well as having the game entirely in double battles (which are much more fun and challenging than normal battles) and they connected it to the GB games so what you earned while progressing through the limited single player mode in Colosseum could go into the infinite world of Ruby/Sapphire, FireRed/LeafGreen and finally Emerald. Hey, if you don't like Colosseum then don't play it. I bought it expecting it to be Pokemon Stadium 3 but it wasn't and I got over that to discover 20 hours of entertaining gameplay to keep me busy in the last week of summer. Now i've got the johto starters that make me the envy of my friends and a couple of old favorites that had been missed throughout Ru/Sa.

Meh, whatever.

[PKMN Master]

You can be sure that every feature they took out of GSC, they had a reason - none of them really impacted in terms of game resources. For example, I know that there had been a lot of negative feedback about the screen being too dark to see at night (Keep in mind that R/S was developed for the original GBA - no lit screen). These days they can assume a lit screen and develop accordingly.

Time was not removed from R/S - but I agree it was odd they didn't add a display clock (apart from going to your room). Perhaps the fact that GBAs don't actually keep very good time had some bearing on them downgrading that feature? There may have been complaints about kids staying up to midnight to get 12:00am events as well.

As for not including Kanto & Johto... chalk that up to a growing realisation that if they kept doing that with every release, that's pretty much all they'd have room for.
Remember that the GBC was designed to reflect light, so it was quite dark ar night too, but that didn't stop them from putting day/night in GSC. And yes, of course time wasn't removed, but the always useful clock was (at some point I used to have it near my bed and turn it on just to see the time :p) but what do u mean with "GBAs don't keep very good time? I would think that the GBA is highly superior to the GBC, and they still put time in the GSC versions :S...

and yet, the major improvement was given in the metagame: completely new IV system, the EV cap, natures, new growth rate formulas, separate values for gender, "shinyness", hidden power, etc. But they got short movewise. They didn't add any legal way to get moves onto some pokemon. Say Typhlosion and Electabuzz(I know they weren't in the game, but online their power has hindered like never before). Also, they left us without a major breeding utility: Ditto. The IV heritage odds were bugged, as you well know... if you screwed up with EVs there was no way back, which is annoying for your first team (starter and such)... they realized how much of a buttache was to get good pogeys: right nature, Ivs, moves, gender... gosh, even the Berry Glitch!!

And comparing FRLG with RS, if you notice the font they used, the FRLG is much easier to read, and smooth to the eye, added many effects and devices to the game. All technical stuff was also fixed and improved in Emerald...

[Razola]

EVs and IVs are not improvements, they are just hidden numbers to make things more needlessly complicated.

[Rudoku]

Remember that the GBC was designed to reflect light, so it was quite dark ar night too, but that didn't stop them from putting day/night in GSC.
Obvoiusly, someone important didn't like that stuff. I know I didn't.