God controversy, freedom of speech and all that... let's discuss!

[Magmar]

Click here for the main headline...

If you can watch the video, it's pretty interesting to see what's going on at my school... at the newspaper that I'm Managing Editor of!

The big ruckus is over the fact that we printed a comic that depicted Jesus as a college roommate, complete with water-into-wine abilities. Some Christians got mad and called the news to report how miserable it made them.

That's the story from up here... what do you think of the article/situation? I see it as more free press for us!

Complete article:

PROVIDENCE -- Some students at Rhode Island College are upset after a cartoon showing Jesus as a great college roommate ran in the campus newspaper.

NBC 10's Larry Estepa said the cartoon, which ran in The Anchor, depicts Jesus with smelly feet, helping a student guzzle the water he transformed into booze from a faucet.

RIC chaplain Michael Najim called the cartoon immature and offensive.

"It was an unprovoked attack upon our faith," Najim said.

The cartoonists, Conor McKeon and Tony Pierloni, said they only wanted to inspire thought and stimulate dialogue.

"It's just a smack in the face for us. That's how I feel about it anyway," said student Katie Fernandes.

"The students that I know on campus who want to engage in dialogue take a more mature, intellectual approach to engage people in dialogue," Najim said.

Estepa said McKeon and Pierlioni would not go on camera, but wrote a statement calling the criticism a way to intimidate them into an apology. The students said they won't apologize and thank the college for supporting their First Amendment right.

"It's fully within our rights to print whatever we want. It's freedom of the press," said Jessica Albaum, executive editor of The Anchor.

The cartoon generated one letter of protest, written by student Jonathan Haynes.

"Democracy works on a balance between liberty and moral restraint. Without that moral restraint our liberty does not work," he said.

RIC spokeswoman Jane Fusco said the college takes a hands-off policy on a student run and funded paper.

"It's their paper so they have every right to express their opinions and to challenge them," she said.

[Roy Karrde]

Seems like the same type of controversy as the Muhammad Cartoons, except with out the killings and explosions. Anyway I have no problem with the cartoon, I mean if some one is so insecure in their faith that a Cartoon challenges it, then they should look inward instead of attacking others. Then again I would expect this campus to run cartoons attacking Buddists and Muslims and other Religious symbols. If not then something is wrong with that newspaper.

[mr_pikachu]

Mature, intellectual dialogue is overrated. Seriously, these guys need to lighten up. Although I haven't seen the comic myself, it sounds funny, and these guys should laugh a little rather than viewing everything as an attack upon their faith. If they got this angry at every "A priest, a monk, and a rabbi walked into a bar" joke...


EDIT: Got a question, though, Roy. If we don't consider a cartoon an attack, then why should the paper have to worry about running an equal amount of cartoons about the different faiths?

[Mystic_clown]

People get pissed at the smallest things don't they? If people don't like that cartoon, don't look at it, cover it with their hand or scribble it out with a pencil. Don't go whining about it.

[Arnen]

Tch. So some people can't take a joke, and complain because not everyone shares their views, and take every little joke as a personal affront against their beliefs. Boo-hoo, let's all give into their wants whenever something makes them uncomfortable, and make a big deal out of it while we're at it. Sounds fun.

And why would they make fun of Buddha, or any other religious symbol? The majority of religious people attending the school are probably Christian, so what would the point be to jab at other faiths that most of the students know little about?

[Asilynne]

Psh, I wouldnt be surprised if the newspaper made that article knowing it would get those people all riled up just so it could get lots of attention and probably gain popularity...because we all know that when something offends christians its gotta be awesome!!! rofl >.>

But yeah I dont see what the big deal is, I mind my business and I couldnt really care less about what other people do, as long as it doesnt directly hurt me or my family they could do anything they want and I wouldnt blink lol

[Roy Karrde]

And why would they make fun of Buddha, or any other religious symbol? The majority of religious people attending the school are probably Christian, so what would the point be to jab at other faiths that most of the students know little about?

Becuase right now the school is pretty much writing this off as a simple joke and a matter of freedom of speach. So thereby they should have no problem publishing cartoons that attack other religous symbols. If they do then they show that this isn't a matter of being just a simple cartoon, and shows they do have some kind of Anti Christian biasedness. I mean if it is just a simple cartoon and that is all they meant it to be, then they should have no problem creating the same simple cartoon with another religous symbol.

If not then there could actually be a problem at this school and how they treat religions.

[Drusilla]

Heh heh heh... this reminds me of the plan my friends and I had of making a video depicting Jesus, Buddha, Mohammad, Satan, and whomever else playing Ride the Bus...Yeah, it would be wrong as hell, but oh well. XP

Anyway, who hasn't thought about Jesus as a college student? We used to discuss it a lot... He'd be a TKE, no doubt! Viva la TKE!

As for the protests... like everyone else seems to have pointed out, if you've got a problem, then you've got a problem. Don't go pluralizing it for the sake of a bitchfest.

EDIT: ZOMG, 1,500 posts.

[mr_pikachu]

Becuase right now the school is pretty much writing this off as a simple joke and a matter of freedom of speach. So thereby they should have no problem publishing cartoons that attack other religous symbols. If they do then they show that this isn't a matter of being just a simple cartoon, and shows they do have some kind of Anti Christian biasedness. I mean if it is just a simple cartoon and that is all they meant it to be, then they should have no problem creating the same simple cartoon with another religous symbol.

If not then there could actually be a problem at this school and how they treat religions.

I'll reiterate my earlier point. If it's a simple joke, then why should further simple jokes be required? That's like saying that if I make a joke about poker not being a sport, I must then make a joke about NASCAR, gymnastics, chess, ping-pong, D&D, etc. Otherwise, I'm treating poker fans worse than those of the others. It's the exact same situation, just with various games/sports substituted for religions.

If we treat this as more than a simple joke, then you have a point. But I don't think that we can use the lack of further jokes alone as a litmus test for whether this was just good-natured humor.

[Magmar]

Right now our phone is going off the hook because people are consistently calling the office to criticize our comic, defend us, or to ask for more... freaking... interviews... for the associated press. Urgh!!!

[Gavin Luper]

Well, that's just a cartoon. I thought it was mildly funny, but definitely not offensive or an "attack" on the Christian faith. It's just a joke. I think some people are hypersensitive about these things. Sucks for you guys that this has blown out of proportion.

(Now, I'm going to go off on a complete tangent, but I suppose it's kind of related.)

Regarding what Roy said, I don't think there's any point printing further cartoons about other religions just for the sake of proving a lack of bias - that just seems unnecessary. Looking at this in a wider context, however, and not just as a single incident, it does kind of fascinate me, this whole idea of freedom of speech and what makes something either "acceptable" or "controversial". Speaking from an Australian point of view, I've seen cartoons that have made light-hearted jabs at Christianity, and they are generally taken in good humour. Yet, there's such a politically correct movement in this country that the very notion of publishing anything that ridicules the beliefs of a minority group has become some kind of dastardly act.

This is part of some kind of weird social phenomenon that really intrigues me. It doesn't just run through religion, but through race, gender ... a whole host of things. It's acceptable for Queen Latifah to say in a recent film, "If we get any more white people in here, this is gonna be a suburb," - but reverse the situation and have a "white" person making a similar comment about "black" people, and you've got a racist, offensive line. Similarly, it's acceptable in the media for women to talk about being the stronger sex, and for men to be portrayed as slightly stupid. But if someone would dare depict women as stupid? They must be anti-feminist, male chauvinist pigs! And I've seen several movies and TV shows where gay men say things like, "straight guys are [insert generalisation here]", and it's just taken in good humour and fun. But reverse the line and have it coming from a heterosexual male - he must, naturally, be a homophobe.

I know I'm playing devil's advocate here, but it helps me get to my point much faster than any carefully-worded, politically correct stuff would. We're discussing freedom of speech here, right? Well, I think that it has to kind of all or nothing. Either it's OK for everyone - all groups - to be joked about in good humour, or it's not OK for anyone at all to be mocked, regardless of motivation. If we're all equal, then we can't have different rules for different people, can we? That doesn't make sense at all.

[Magmar]

Just an update. The phone hasn't stopped. Alumni & such are reaming us out. This radio station WPRO has this man on it named Don Yorke or something like that... and he's such a foul human being, he keeps trying to say that we should get bombed & such and publish Mohammed jokes... seriously I've just about had it today with all the meetings and interviews!!

[Roy Karrde]

I think people are misinterpreting what I said or misreading it, or maybe it was just my own fault in having phrased it. I do not expect nor would want them to come out with a line of anti religion cartoons. All I am saying is that say a few months or maybe a year from now, if one of the cartoonists were to go "Hey I have a idea for a Muhammad student cartoon" and the newspaper rejects it in fear of angering Muslims. At that point then the school is showing that they are pretty much Anti Christian in a way.

[MToolen]

Take it easy, Mag- it'll all be fine. As for the comic, it doesn't sound all that inaccurate, to be honest: Jesus did live at a time when sandals were the norm and wine would've been the drink of choice not for its alcohol content but because it was sanitary.

And it doesn't offend me in the least. While it does poke fun at us, it is by no means a full-out attack. Any glimpse at the website Voice of the Martyrs will tell you that.

It's a comic, it happens to have Jesus in it, and his feet happen to smell. I really don't see the problem if it's looked at past a knee-jerk reaction.

[Zak]

How come you aren't mentioned in the article if you were involved? Just curious.

[Toxicity]

How come you aren't mentioned in the article if you were involved? Just curious.

I think he wasn't mentioned because he's only involved as being part of the newspaper's staff team and not as part of the idea?

But about this, this only seems like just another example of the things that can happen because of the First Amendment being a little too "vague" or "in-depth," depending on how you would see it, rather than as an attack. Many honest-to-God (no pun intended) deeply religious Christians I know are open to hearing jokes involving Jesus as long as it's not, say, a really bad representation as in making him seem like a racist war-monger. It's nothing serious, but as Mystic_clown said, you have the right to not view it if you understand that it could prove to be offensive; that's supported by the Ninth and Tenths Amendments - citizens having all rights not stated by the Constitution and/or local and state levels.

Really, I don't understand why people should be upset by something so simple. Or anything for that matter. Majority of jokes aren't considered controversial until somebody in that direction of play feels seriously offended in a case where they shouldn't. There's not even a need for backfire as some people feel, so reversing the situation in full isn't at all necessary, although subtle reference paying hommage to what caused the feelings of being offended can fit the situation fairly well and be a success.

And as a joke, I'm in agreement with MToolen that it supports the time period in which Jesus was living. Sandals were worn, and alcoholic beverages were a common celebratory thing in time being - the Romans had wine, and the Egyptians and Mesopotamians had beer made from barley. It's just a little parody, not exactly an Anti-Christian one, and nothing's wrong with that; if there was, a certain wonderful Broadway production from the '70s wouldn't have as many fans as it does.

Also, so Ryan knows, there are political cartoons out there that give Buddhism and Islam the same treatment as Christianity; the best ideas have just been done already.

[Magmar]

How come you aren't mentioned in the article if you were involved? Just curious.

I'll elaborate on that a bit. I'm Managing Editor/Vice President of the organization, so I'm second in command. Our Executive (who was quoted in the story) was away with family a few states away for the weekend, since she is Jewish and was observing Yom Kippur. So during much of the scenario I was acting as Executive and dealing with all the lovely hate mail and phone calls. Hurrah!

[DarkTemplarZero]

So sad. Can't believe people are getting riled up over a freaking comic.

[DarkTemplarZero]

So sad. Can't believe people are getting riled up over a freaking comic.

[Katie]

If B.C. can get away (err, got away, rather) with its shit, your paper is fine.

I swear Christians are trying so hard to jump on the "Wah wah, minority!" bandwagon when they clearly aren't. There are so goddamn many of them that their whines are deafening. You're not being persecuted, please sit down and shut up. (This is only directed at pissy Christians, the rest of yall are cool)

[Drusilla]

Actually, I believe that there are more Muslims than Christians in the world... Though I could be wrong. However, the 'poor us' thing does get old very quickly.

Out of curiosity... have there been any further developments, Magmar?

[Toxicity]

Oh wow; Katie's back. :O

Also, Dru is fairly close in assuming that there are more Muslims than Christians. Although Christianity still has roughly over 2 billion adherents, Islam is running not as far behind as many choose to believe - nearly 1.5 billion. And even then, giving many factors such as the amount of children born in Islamic nations compared to the size of an average Christian family and as far as conversion or as far as giving up a faith (such as many raised in Christian households becoming non-religious) could mean that this could change. And given the high possibility of reaching a total population of 7 billion before the end of the decade, I have a feeling that such a change is not as far away as many would assume.

And I do agree that hearing about Christians who choose to play the self-pity game by complaining about becoming a minority does get old fast; however, this may be out of the fact that they are denied rights to organizations beyond church such as school clubs or becoming a college house.

edit: Also, I'd like to add that DTZ's sig is a winner; Raptor Jesus.

[Trekkie]

New Pledge of Allegiance
(TOTALLY AWESOME) !

Since the Pledge of Allegiance
and The Lord's Prayer
are not allowed in most
public schools anymore
Because the word "God" is mentioned....
A kid in Arizona wrote the attached

NEW School prayer: -
Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation under God
Finds mention of Him very odd.

If Scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights .
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all.
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.
They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.
We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong.

We can get our condoms and birth controls,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.

It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!
Amen
sorry for the long post

[Arnen]

Uh, what's wrong with condoms and birth control? If they'd been in use sooner, the world wouldn't be so overpopulated. :/ And I seriously hope totem poles were only mentioned to form a rhyme...

[MToolen]

I guess some people are offended by birth control and steps from pregnancy, arguing instead for more abstinence and chastity. I'm not saying that no one waits anymore- I am even though I've been steady with a girl for almost 4 years- but most would say that. However, if some could prevent an unwanted pregnancy through those means, I'm all for it.

Wait, how did I go from freedom of speech to education? Sorry if I'm considered off-topic.

[Magmar]

New Pledge of Allegiance
(TOTALLY AWESOME) !

Since the Pledge of Allegiance
blah blah blah jesus blah blah praise god!!!!!!!!11

:emo:
Hey asshole, try being gay and see how people treat you in the high school hallway. Or try being black in suburbia christian white country. Go pray or something.

[Asilynne]

:emo:
Hey asshole, try being gay and see how people treat you in the high school hallway. Or try being black in suburbia christian white country. Go pray or something.

Whoa Mag :< The whole thing with that post is telling about how it seems everyone can have freedom of speech except for christians (not being allowed to pray in school etc) Seeing as how this topic is about the right to freedom of speech, isnt your response a lil on the....needlessly hostle side?
Hes practically agreeing with you on the fundamental basis of it all. Picture this:

A kid walking down the hall of school, being jeered at because of his beliefs, shunned and hated by people that should be his friend only based upon "what" he is, and not who. Maybe if they got to know him they would see he was a good fun person theyd like to hang with. But all they see, and, indeed, all they CHOOSE to see is the beliefs that define him, and since those differ from thier beliefs he should be shunned and hated.

The kid in this story could be gay, he could be a foreigner with different customs, he could be into the black urban culture in an all white neighborhood, he could be muslum, hindu, islamic......or he could be christian. And if you cant comprehend a christian being treated like that because there are so many of them...look at your own feelings towards them. No one wants to feel hated just because they believe something someone else doesnt, and no one should be.

I dont always understand why people think they way they do, I dont claim to understand gay people, or other religions, but I dont shun them either, because a person is a person. To judge any group of people on the actions of one is wrong, so I will admit it hurt me to see such a harsh response from you. I dont know what happened in your life to make you hate chistians so much but its unfair to those of us who would never think to hurt anyone to have such a hurtful reaction to our beliefs. So please accept my apology on behalf of every christian that ever hurt you, and stop hating us ;.;

Cause I didnt always know you were gay but after I found out I didnt care, you were still that fun person I saw posting, please dont hate me now :<

[Magmar]

Oh I don't hate Christians at all =) I just think it's ridiculous how people pull the "Oh poor me, I'm sooo persecuted for my beliefs" card just because it's no longer mandatory for people to say the Pledge of Allegiance. Then again I come from the town with the highest per-capita Italian and Catholic religious majority in the country, so I can't imagine Christians being treated singled out and mistreated.

[Asilynne]

Sadly it happens. In my high school you were considered "cool" if you tore down E.D.G.E club signs or wrote bad things on them, and the faculty didnt seem interested in doing anything about it -.- Nowadays its hard to be christian mainly because some people have it in their heads what "Christians" are like aka: uptight, annoying, rampaging bible beaters that demand you act a certain way or your going to hell. Thats NOT what being christian is about, but what can you do when there are so many misguided people that act like that? Its a bad steriotype and unfortunatly there are so many that keep that steriotype alive its just going to push people away from it.
I believe in leading by example, and I hate how some people think you have to yell and scream at someone or beat them over the head with a belief to get people to understand it, when if they just lived as a good person it would be so much better, catch flies with honey etc etc lol
But Im glad to hear you dont hate ^v^ so many people do so Im almost afraid to say what I am XDDD But fortunately Im not, and Im glad to see your ok with that <3

[Ultimate Charizard]

The main problem im seeing to be honest is the whole world in general has forgotten how to take a joke.
Seriously. You cant say/do anything these days without someone playing the offence card. Whether its through Gender, Religion, Race, sexual preference etc.
I swear the only people that arent allowed to complain these days are Young, White, Athiest, Straight guys.
Anything else and its "LOOK AT ME, IM BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST!"

As for the religion debate, try living over here in the UK. Were getting closer and closer to having Christmas Banned (seriously) by some government jobsworths who think it may be offensive to the minority religions. Yet we get their religious holidays shoved down our throats.
Its getting so rediculous that were not even allowed to fly the English flag on St Georges day or during sporting events etc incase the immigrants take it as an insult.

The whole world just needs to get over themselves.
Christians go to the press, Muslims burn effigies of people and make death threats to get the Press's attention but its all under the same banner of over-reacting

(by the way please dont jump down my throat on that last comment, i know its probably an unfair stereotype but its a blunt image that the world in general do have)