Poll of the Week: FUCK!

[Gavin Luper]

Yes, that was my attempt at an attention-grabbing thread title.

This week's poll is about profanities in fics. Do you think it's okay to swear in a fanfiction? If so, what are the conditions? How much is too much? Or is it never really appropriate?

Personally, I like the use of curse words in extreme situations - like a high-stress moment or something - or if it suits the voice of the character in the fic. It feels more natural than someone saying "goshdarnit!". Even a high-density of curse words can be justifiable if it suits the moment and the person's voice; I think that the use of profanities in fics will usually be dictated by the characters.

Thoughts?

[classy_cat18]

It sure grabbed my attention.

I think it's natural depending on the characters (seven-year-olds don't usually swear). But I don't think it's right to have a curse word for every three regular words.

[Crystal Tears]

LOL Fuckity fuck fuck, I sing-song that when I've royally messed-up or hurt myself.

I saw the title and I immediately thought you stubbed your toe or something when coming up with this poll :3 XD

I think cursing should fit the situation and the character, of course some have been known to create characters in that just swear and swear until the end of days, which I don't think is right. The more curses are used out of a context, the less effect the word has and it makes your character look sort of sad in a way.

Characters and the situation (not necessarily extreme) at hand dictate when to swear, using them realistically (not over-using or lacking curses) adds more personality to a fic.

[Gavin Luper]

It sure grabbed my attention.

I think it's natural depending on the characters (seven-year-olds don't usually swear). But I don't think it's right to have a curse word for every three regular words.

I agree. Although, I do know several people in real life who do make it a point to swear on every second or third word, so I suppose even that could be justifiable in terms of authenticity. It wouldn't read well, though.

[Gavin Luper]

Didn't see your reply, CT! Yes, I feel the same way, a character (and consequently, an author) can look a bit pathetic when curse words are used so poorly that they jar.

And XD @ the toe-stubbing hypothesis. Who doesn't sing that? Hehe.

[DivineAll]

Depends on the type of fic itself and sometimes on the author's preference. If it's strictly kid-friendly, swears are usually unallowed. If the fic is for teens, a swear word every so often is okay. All the adult fics I've read so far tend to be frequently lemons, with swears only popping up if a character gets vocal. Me, I fit into the second category. but I like to be a little clever about it, especially if it involves words that aren't necessarily swears, like bitch. It's a female dog, get over it.

[Gavin Luper]

Depends on the type of fic itself and sometimes on the author's preference. If it's strictly kid-friendly, swears are usually unallowed. If the fic is for teens, a swear word every so often is okay. All the adult fics I've read so far tend to be frequently lemons, with swears only popping up if a character gets vocal. Me, I fit into the second category. but I like to be a little clever about it, especially if it involves words that aren't necessarily swears, like bitch. It's a female dog, get over it.

Yes, I think it certainly comes to who you're writing for, too. I suppose here at TPM, I assume we're generally writing for a teenage to adult audience, given how the forum has been here so long and many of us have grown up with it. Moreover, any new members we get tend to be in mid-late adolescence anyway, so I suppose there is a general tolerance here to some form of cursing in fics.

[Crystal Tears]

Yes, I think it certainly comes to who you're writing for, too. I suppose here at TPM, I assume we're generally writing for a teenage to adult audience, given how the forum has been here so long and many of us have grown up with it. Moreover, any new members we get tend to be in mid-late adolescence anyway, so I suppose there is a general tolerance here to some form of cursing in fics.

I'm not too worried about it anyways (though I did put a warning in my fic title), I walk by my old elementary school occasionally, and I hear kindergarteners using language as bad as 'tough-guy-gangsters' in my old high school.

It’s a sad state, but anyone who is younger then pre-adolescent and managed to join this site probably curses anyways. My next door neighbour’s 7 year old daughter (maybe she's 8... I don't know, hate the terror ¬¬U) has swore numerous times.

Doesn't impress me at all, but that’s the way the world is, at least up here in Canada (in my specific location XD).

[Lune the Guardian]

I don't get why little kids need to be "protected" from things, honestly. When a game is censored so that some giant evil bastard says "darn", every little kid knows what that really means. They're not stupid. What makes little kids different? It's not like knowing what "damn" means is going to make them likely to pick up a gun and shoot the school or something. If a swear word is appropriate, it should be used. Kids don't need "protection" from language. And the whole hush hush about sex thing is a really silly human cultural thing, too. What's dirty about knowing where babies come from? If you tell your kids about it, they're not going to go out and have sex, they're going to do the opposite and say "Eeeeeew" and avoid it for a while. Seriously.

Well, whoops, that was a tangent. Anyway, even the quietest, humblest, most-unlikely-to-swear character might have his/her swear moment sometimes, depending on the situation. I don't really approve of constant swearing just for the heck of it, like I've seen in some terrible movies and writing. Even if the character is some unrefined oaf with bad manners, a curse every 3 words is pointless. There are much better ways to build a character.

[EDIT]: I forgot to mention, I think some people might use different swear words though. I don't really use "fuck" in writing (I like using "damn"), though I do say it in day to day speech, if the situation calls for it. I can't really explain why I use some different curses, other than that it just seems to look better sometimes.

[Gavin Luper]

Fair call, CT. It's the same thing in Oz, really - school is the place where most people are first exposed to a lot of swear words anyway, I reckon.

Is there anything else I can call you other than CT? It looks like I'm talking to the state of Connecticut. ^_^

Lune: That's quite an impassioned tangent. Hehe. And I agree that there are better ways to build a character. I've never actually seen the swearword-for-every-three-words thing pop up in anything I've read, but I do expect it would make for really, really clunky reading and would just get really annoying really quickly.

Then again, maybe it would be "realistic", but I doubt it. I think having someone swear repeatedly would just make them seem ridiculous, like a joke, or a literary gimmick, even.

[Crystal Tears]

I was first exposed to curses and what-not in school, true enough. Granted though, I wasn't in kindergarten when I was first swearing and giving people the middle-finger.

You can call me Sie or Jenn (Two very different names, but I get called both lolz) if you want, better than talking to a state. XD

I've seen the writing with the curse-every-three-words, or it has to be in every sentence they (the character) say. Believe me it's really irritating and gets old, eventually you end up wishing the character was dead because apparently he or she never learnt manners.

I don't think it would make it realistic, the only time I hear a curse word used often is when my father hurts himself in one way or another. Then comes the colourful variations of pitch the word 'Fuck' can take in about three seconds, and how it fits into a sentence (noun, verb, adjective, adverb, etc etc).

At those moment, all I can do is laugh because it’s hilarious >_>;

So over-swearing in a certain situation can create comedy, but on a serious note it fails hardcore.

[Asilynne]

Fuck you like a hurricane and you can write a fic about that, amen brothers and sisters <3

[Lune the Guardian]

Yes, it was a rather impassioned tangent I just can't stand how people change their voices when they talk to babies and little kids. It's insulting their intelligence. Kids that are brought up properly won't do inappropriate things. If you educate them early and teach them, they're less likely to be rebellious and swear just for the heck of it. If you - don't - teach them and they learn those things at school, they're more likely to use it inappropriately. It's not perfect, and it's not 100% a parent's fault if a child goes wrong, but there is a certain age in children where they revere their parents and take most anything their parents say as the word of god. You teach them properly during that time, you'll most likely end up with a kid that's got good fundamentals, who can make appropriate decisions for himself/herself in the future. That said, I hate almost everyone's little children that I've come across. I am sadly plagued with the company of people (my parents' friends) who don't believe in chastising their kids, who turn a blind eye to their wrongdoings. If they deserve punishment, punish them. If you don't do or say anything, they're not going to learn that what they're doing is wrong, and they're gonna keep doing it. /rant

And I agree that constant swearing characters is ridiculous. I don't remember who it was who was watching some stupid movie with some idiotic general who had like a permanent swear spell cast on him or something, but I remember wanting to punch a hole in the TV. I couldn't leave the place because I had to do something; otherwise I would have. The story I read a little bit in, figured "This is really terrible writing", and stopped reading. It was so bad that I don't even remember the name or genre.

[Wolfsong]

Those that know me, know i don't curse much irl, but when it comes to fic, if its necessary for the scene or the fact it writes itself in sometimes I will include it. i know in skin (temp. working title of the monster fic [197+ pages] i'm working on) there are a few scenes as well as the sequel that i'm also working on whre there is cursing. If it is necessary or fits the scene i will include it. ot like some people i know irl...

I had a character in a csi ny fic i was working on that had Stella cursing in greek and i translated it [at least attempted to still not sure if it was right or not]. *headdesk* I got a lecter on the fact that i had cursed even when i hadn't [if that makes sense]

[VirtualPlay]

Anyway, even the quietest, humblest, most-unlikely-to-swear character might have his/her swear moment sometimes, depending on the situation.

I'm probably one of maybe a dozen 20+ that has never actually said the F word as a swear, and when I said it to describe to some immature brats what it really means it still felt totally wrong (and I've done that maybe twice). I've typed it up a fair few times, but again that was to talk about the actual word. So yeah, I would be one of those people you're describing right there; we do exist, and I can safely say it would take a LOT to get me to actually swear with it. I don't even use 'damn' as a swear, though I have less of an aversion to writing it out or saying it.

I don't think it would make it realistic, the only time I hear a curse word used often is when my father hurts himself in one way or another. Then comes the colourful variations of pitch the word 'Fuck' can take in about three seconds, and how it fits into a sentence (noun, verb, adjective, adverb, etc etc).

Which, of course, reminds me of...

Rocco: Fuckin'- What the fuckin'. Fuck. Who the fuck fucked this fucking... How did you two fucking fucks...
[shouts]
Rocco: Fuck!
Connor: Well, that certainly illustrates the diversity of the word.

Ahh, Boondock Saints. Classic. Speaking of Billy Connolly, he played Il Duce in that movie...

Anyway, my thoughts are with the majority here. Swearing should be used as it fits, so if a character would string off a line like the above quote, then so be it. However, I'm not going to just put in a character to have a swear-dropping character.

[Chris 2.1]

The main character in Show-Off, Milo, is a big f-ing f-er. He swears all the time. Where I live, people do use it in such a way that it isnt deemed particularly outlandish. Similarly, when Milo uses it, it does not retain the same element of frustration or anger because he uses a lot. That's because I use it quite a lot really.

Now the c-word. THERE's a taboo. I don't think I could ever use THAT in a fic.

[Drago]

To me, swearing in a fic has to be appropriate. Not just to the character using it, but to the fic itself. I ask myself... does it need it? Or by having it, am I just adding an unnecessary element? I was entirely anti-swearing as a kid, and this was represented in my work for some time. However, in some cases, to maintain the integrity of the fic, it's simply a necessary reality that, in most instances, swearing is simply the purest form of expression we have. Why do we immediately resort to those words when we're angry, or we hurt ourselves? It's interesting when you think about it; though poo really isn't something I'm thinking about when I'm angry, the word shit just seems so appropriate. I use it far more as a form of expression than to actually convey shit itself. ...Convey shit itself. Didn't think I'd say that today.

...And Gav, don't think I was pressuring you to make a new poll. I appreciate it, though. Heh.

[Weasel Overlord]

I went for the character-appropriate option. A lot of the swear words I use are British-biased, mind, and as such I don't really see them as swear words. Like "bloody hell" (I personally say that as often as "the" lol), or "damn" or "bugger". Hell, I don't even see "damn" as being sweary, not nowadays. Sure my great grandparents think it is, but we live in a modern world. Plus I'm not religious, that probably helps.

Urm, I would use the f-word if it was appropriate, and the character was that kind of person, but I don't really like it myself. It especially bugs me in fanfiction, when there's no evidence that the character says it, yet it appears in most sentences in some fics. Yes Supernatural fandom, I'm looking at you. I also won't use the c-bomb, cos I think it's vulgar. Nothing is more annoying than unnecessary swearing.

And if I was to try and be true to life (taking it from my own vocab), all my characters would say things like "poo" and "fark" and "cock" and "blast" and "buggeration" and variations thereupon, which would probably sound very unrealistic, hehe.

[Houndoom_Lover]

The only time I swear is when the character does, and then I'll do it when ever is needed if the character is a swearer. But I always leave a warning, its only polite that way.

[Gavin Luper]

Connecticut: Sie or Jenn, will remember that! Cheers!

Now the c-word. THERE's a taboo. I don't think I could ever use THAT in a fic.

I did use the c-word in the short story that was published in Indigo. It wasn't really used as a swear word though, if that makes any kind of sense, but just as reference to a machine operator as a "mad c***". I was worried about reading it out in class but the reaction seemed to be positive. It didn't feel gratuitous to me: the narrator was a labourer, and from my experience, that's how myself - and most of the guys on the job - would talk by way of habit. Nonetheless, it would probably cause a backlash if used in a really crass way, I think.

EDIT: No worries Tony - I was just being facetious. But it got my butt into gear anyway, so thanks!

[Phoenixsong]

Attention successfully grabbed, Gav.

Not sure there's much I can add to the general discussion here--curse when it's appropriate, otherwise it just looks like a desperate attempt to be "hardcore" or something else pathetic like that.

To give an example, I have a rough scene idea for a fanfic I'm planning on writing. To put it simply, the main character is a non-human who has been transformed into a human and forced to become a Pokémon trainer against his will. He's been... isolated, shall we say, from the rest of the world for a very long time, and so he understands very little about modern human society and has to either learn or make things up as he goes, with generally (hopefully) hilarious results. Eventually he ends up hanging around this slightly rough-around-the-edges character, and at one point she gets frustrated and says "fuck me up the ass with a stick" to herself. Later something upsets the MC and so he says "fuck me up the ass with a stick!" very loudly and in front of a bunch of small children, at which point their indignant caretaker asks him if he has any idea what on earth he's just said to the poor little dears. He says no, not really, and so the caretaker grabs a stick and shouts "well, bend over, I'll show you!"

...or something like that, I dunno. Haven't written it yet. The point being, I only bothered to have him use such coarse language because he doesn't know what it means and to further drive home the whole "fish out of water" idea (plus some near-stickrape for the silly laughs, ahaha). The "rough" character curses occasionally because that's her personality, he just parrots what she says because he doesn't know what else he's supposed to do. I would consider that relatively effective use of cursing, and there's nothing wrong with that, IMO.

Now that I think about it, though, a character who swears non-stop might actually work if it's someone that you want the readers and other characters to punch through their computer screen. In that case, gratuitous language could actually be used pretty effectively. *shrug* You'd have to be careful with that character so that he/she doesn't cross the line from "wow this character is annoying" to "hey, stupid author, we get it already, stop cursing!", but I suppose that in the right situation such tastelessness could actually be tasteful. Hm.

[Dragonfree]

For me it depends on the story I'm writing. Most of the time I don't use the harshest of swear words at all, especially because I used to have a real aversion to seeing them in print. Then I wrote Scyther's Story, which included two instances of 'fuck' in dialogue where it felt really emotionally appropriate to add that impact, so that would be the third option. Now I know that in the future of The Quest for the Legends it will once become necessary for a particular character in intense emotional distress to swear, and I will do that because it fits the character and it is a particularly extreme moment for him.

Morphic is a bit of another story, because it has a hell of a lot of 'fuck's lying around - mostly because the setting attempts to feel realistic and has adult main characters. Most prominently, Dave swears a lot. He's just that kind of guy. The other characters vary, but I don't think there is a single chapter of Morphic that doesn't contain 'fuck' somewhere. That is strictly a case of the appropriate-to-the-character's-voice thing, however.

So, well, yeah, it kind of varies.

[PancaKe]

I think there are other ways you can express the essence of swearing without using the words. I'm not one to swear, so I don't particularly like to swear in fics. I usually write things like "And this was followed by a string of swear words." or "She swore under her breath" etc. Without actually naming words.

Lots of popular fiction doesn't feel the need to swear

Then again, lots does.

*shrugs*

[Lady Vulpix]

I chose option 2, but my real choice would be somewhere in between 2 or 3. I don't normally use swear words. If the situation leads to it there may be some and I wouldn't include a warning just for that, but don't hold your breath waiting for a curse word because they don't come naturally to me.

[Ultimate Charizard]

I think Casual swearing is fine in an unmonitored fashion. The kinda thing that some people dont consider swearing, or dont even know are swearing due to international dialect etc (damn, bugger, sodding etc) but i tend to only drop the bombs if/when i feel its really nessecary.

I did a writing piece back in high school (the ONLY piece of writing, hell, the only piece of anything i did in school that got an A) where the Teacher specifically said we were able to use Language if we wanted to in an effort to express the moment. Because this was the first time we'd been given permission to swear at school I was so desperate to squeeze in a swear word the first draft was marked down and the whole passage was ringed with question marks because ill admit it didnt fit. Apparently most of the class went along the same lines.

[Lady Vulpix]

That's usually what happens when a prohibition is lifted. People tend to go overboard with their newfound freedom. Just look at some of the post-Franco Spanish movies.

[Chris 2.1]

Has anybody seen Shameless?

It's a great British drama set in a Mancunian council estate. I love it. Very gritty, drugs 'n' sex are the norm. The authorities are the enemy and it's just brilliantly written. As a post-watershed programme, and there is loads of swearing.

The f-word is uttered with every breath. It waters it down, but the best thing about it is that fuck is seen as a natural, multipurpose convention, which definitely represents how its used (and by whom, in a way) in the UK.

But in one episode, they used the c-word. And it was one of the most jaw-dropping, memorable moments I've seen on TV. Two of the children were taken away from the house by social services and the father, Frank, blamed daughter Debbie for everything. She just glared at her father and said:

"You're a cunt."

It was really soft, vicious and the sheer presence of the word sent a shiver down my spine. I don't condone the word in most contexts, but in that moment it was the perfect word to use.

[Asilynne]

I hate, absolutely LOATHE that word Chris XDD although I know what you mean, sometimes words like that just have to be used. Like if anyone has seen Shaun of the Dead, the part where they are at the Whinchester and the portly guy turned to everyone and said "Any of you cunts want a drink?" I hate that word so much and yet upon hearing it like that it sent me crying with laughter from the sheer randomness and the glib way he said it. Brilliant XD

[Crazy Elf Boy]

Ah yes the C-Bomb, I am very familiar with this word as most people seem to hate it. But yeh I think its probably the swear word that you shouldn't use unless its absolutely nessecary like that Shaun of the Dead line cause thats hilarious.

[Charles Legend]

Well most of the time when my carters swear they are mostly just annoyed and indeed the funny thing is I had Princes Zelda say 'damn' when a Kargarok nearly knocked her off her horse and Link call Yoshi an asshole dragon for eating him, and if it counts I had Ganondorf call Twinrova hags.

but yeah in the end it just depends on the charter and what happens to them.

~Charles Legend

[PancaKe]

I wouldn't consider damn and bugger swear words.

So perhaps I do swear lots in fics.

[Lady Vulpix]

I wouldn't consider damn and bugger swear words.

Neither would I. I've actually used 'damn' a few times without even thinking anyone might be offended. But this brings up something that happened in a collaborative writing piece I did with Hypotenuse Man for Dragon Tamers. Quoting just the dialogue, without the flavor text (this happened within a Pokemon battle).


Ventura (Gabi's Venomoth): "No worries, just focus. The battle isn't over yet."
Enemy Swablu: "Damn right it isn't!"
Kurtzwick (Jeff's Dratini): "Wow, foul mouth on that one."
Hero (Gabi's Ninetales): "He's trying to help a crazy dragon steal souls and attacking everyone who disagrees with him, and you worry about his language?"
Kurtzwick: "Geez, chill, man. Just pointing something out; no need to get upset."
Hero: "Not upset... Just puzzled by your priorities."
Cambiamente (Jeff's Ditto):"Since when have we not been puzzled by his priorities?"
Hero: "Good point."

[Rossymore]

Since my current (albeit slow) fanfic is a bit of a anime thing therefore no swear words there. If I did put swear words in then the character saying it would probably be interrupted by either getting hurt, being spoken over or just general 'woah...ouch!' moments.