Illegal Immigrants, Tolerable or not?

[kalad1]

As the news is showing of late, with the recent bill, lots of people of hispanic descent are protesting it, due to the issues surrounding Illegal Immigrants. This topic is for discussing and expressing opinions on this subject.

Personally, I feel that ALL illegal immigrants, no matter what race, color, or creed, should and MUST be deported. They're criminals like everyone else, and they should be punished for breaking the law.

Once you've done that, I feel that the government should permanently assign a good chunk of the military to the border, with orders to shoot anyone trying to cross illegally, and I mean enough troops to make sure a single MOUSE couldn't cross illegally.

Please, share your opinion and discuss this subject, no flame wars please.

[Dark Dragonite]

I think a comedian already did this bit, but we should replace all the water between Mexico and the US with gasoline, and let them get about half way accross before we start the flames, lol...
I think they should be deported, it is illegal...or, if we make them citizens, they can't screw us over, they have to live legally, work for minimum wage, and pay taxes...

[Arnen]

I don't think we should even let them become citizens. If they can't even do the proper paperwork or whatever it takes to get over here, they shouldn't be allowed to come here at all. ._.

[.hacker]

What bugs the hell out of me is that many illegals are getting benefits that they don't even deserve (like free college tuition)!

If they're not willing to become U.S. citizens, then leave the US immediately!

[Magmar]

Wait, they get FREE college tuition? *kills*

[Craig]

Around here (Toronto, Canada) they recently targeted a large group of Portugese illegals and many were deported. Insert sob story in the newspapers.

I'm also one of the people that believes they should get the fuck out. I am also heavily against just throwing refugees into normal culture, too. No illegal immigrant will ever have sympathy from me... :/

[Roy Karrde]

This is a very tough subject to approach; there isn’t a true right thing to do, or a true wrong thing to do. As nice as it is to say that we should just ship them all back, that would still hurt us, just as much as it would hurt them. Or maybe even worse. Yes they are a drain on society, yes they ship off all of their money to Mexico, but they do provide a service, a service which price would drastically increase if the work were taken away. The home market would crash, and the price for fruits and vegetables would sky rocket.

That being said, look at this from the political stand point. That being Mexico would not want them back and would fight tooth and nail to keep them from coming back. This is the country that hands out maps to show where the safe spots are when crossing the boarder, the country that seals up it’s own southern border as much as possible to keep immigrants out. Yet does it’s best to ship them off to the United States when ever possible. They don’t want them in their country, and they will find any and all ways to keep us from shipping them back.

Now the real problem here isn’t the immigrants that are already here, unless their inability to grasp the language is what everybody is mad about. The problem here is the border, we need to seal it up as fast as possible. I don’t care if it is placing more troops down there, placing more minutemen down there, or placing piranhas into the Rio Grande. Last year one of the news stations did a trick in which they found that they could safely get a sizable amount of nuclear material into this country, by using several easy items to hide it. The border security here is lacking, and lacking horribly. If we were to have a nuke go off in one of our cities, I bet you anything that the material for it did not come through our ports, it did not come through Canada, it came through somewhere between the Mexico and United States border.

And not just that, it’s easy for terrorists to get through, guns, drugs and gangs. Fighting between drug gangs near the United States border has spread into South Texas, and it is only getting worse. And just as important, criminals that know they will be charged for crimes in Mexico, will flee to the United States, to escape. Mexico won’t go after them because it is just one less person around. We need to tighten up security or close the borders.

Finally to end this long rant, I would like to say that we should ship back any illegal that commits a felony above something simple. And for the criminals that commit horrible crimes, that Mexico should stay out of it. Just last year a Dallas cop was shot and killed by an illegal immigrant. Mexico has now tried to step in to try and prevent Texas from giving the man the death penalty for the crime he committed upon U.S. soil. The Mexican government didn’t give a damn about this man, until he killed some one. Apparently to them they don’t care about you, but if you commit a crime they have your back over here. That needs to stop, and it needs to stop today. Either Mexico starts doing something to prevent illegal immigration from their side of the U.S. border, or they cannot complain when we start handing down appropriate penalties when THEIR citizens start breaking OUR laws.

[homeofmew]

illegal immigrants are illegal, and are not citizens.
Citizens should get jobs before illegals do.

[Gengachu]

What is wrong with you guys? I'm not entirely aware of what makes a person legal or illegal, but it likes someone said, they still get the job, and a lot of times they work harder at it than an American would. The bottom line is though that if we're supposed to be "the land of the free" that shouldn't just apply to people who live in the US. We should welcome these people with arms wide open. They're obviously in a pretty desperate situation if they need to come here to make a living, and I think we should try to help them out.

Really the only thing that bothers me is when they can't speak any English. I think you should be fluent in a country's language before living there. Other than that I'm A-OK with them. Some of my best friends in the past have been Hispanic, and the girl I love is half-Mexican. I think they're generally great people, with some exceptions of course.

[Roy Karrde]

The problem is our day of welcoming illegal immigrants with open arms, is over. We used to do it for people of English decent along with any other European nationality, yet we also did that while the country was in need of people to do jobs. Now yes most of the people that come over are nice people and great people. Yet there is just two problems with it, one they do not integrate well, they instead expect us to accomedate them, instead of it being the other way around. And two, even though most are nice, a hell of a lot are not. And most of the people that are not, are extremely dangerous. How many people do you think there will be out there for illegal immigration after a bomb goes off in Dallas, or New York, or LA, and we find out the materials came across the border? We can still take in the needy and the poor, and be the dumping ground for Mexico, yet lets do this in the proper fashion. If not it will cost us, and it will cost us big time.

[Jeff]

They are comming here illeagally which makes them criminals, also they are taking American jobs and sending the money from those jobs back to their country instead of that money being spent here and thus going back into the US economy. If they want to come work in the US, that's fine, as long as they do it leagally. At my work, there are plenty of people who go through the embassy to work here temporarily, and that's the right way to do it, not sneaking across the border.

[Magmar]

*peeks back in*

I'm going to research border patrol from Mexican materials and see what they have to say. (I'm a Spanish major, so it's good practice!)

[Hatake Kakashi]

What is wrong with you guys? I'm not entirely aware of what makes a person legal or illegal, but it likes someone said, they still get the job, and a lot of times they work harder at it than an American would. The bottom line is though that if we're supposed to be "the land of the free" that shouldn't just apply to people who live in the US. We should welcome these people with arms wide open. They're obviously in a pretty desperate situation if they need to come here to make a living, and I think we should try to help them out.

Really the only thing that bothers me is when they can't speak any English. I think you should be fluent in a country's language before living there. Other than that I'm A-OK with them. Some of my best friends in the past have been Hispanic, and the girl I love is half-Mexican. I think they're generally great people, with some exceptions of course.

Came through the border, are OK'd and given a green card/place to get a green card and they pass the citizenship test: Legal.
Swam, jumped a fence, ducked inside a truck, payed off a guard: Illegal.


It's not a difficult concept.

[Dark Dragonite]

Exactly Hatake, and they don't pay taxes, take advantage of our welfare system, molest kids, rape women(I know, citizens do that too, but they can be caught, these illegals aren't in any system, noone knows where they live but their group), and take jobs at below minimum wage, which hurts now unemployed citizens cause they can only legally work at minimum wage...need any more reasons?

[Blademaster]

You know, it's funny...

Where I live, I never heard complaints that the Mexicans were 'taking our jobs' when all they did was buff floors, scrub toilets, run the little corner market with all the half-decent fruits and vegetables (Why is that banana orange...? Oh, sorry, it's a carrot. My error.), and scrape asbestos out of the ceiling. But now...

...

What? That's funny! Come on!

I mean, it's not like Pedro is the president of Wal-Mart! The Mexicans are just trying to make a living somewhere else - Hell, I'd think people would be flattered that so many people are sneaking into this country! That's what they tell you! They're saying 'Your place is great! Can I crash here for awhile?'

You know, why do you wanna live in the 4-room apartment with cockroaches behind the fridge when you can move into the vacant 1-story house next door? There;'s plenty of room in that house!

And what is this I'm hearing about terrorist threats?

The Mexicans KNOW that if any terrorists get into this country through the Mexican border, then the Mexicans are ****ed. That's why 5 Arab terrorists and terrorist groups got caught by Mexicans in the past few months and were dealt with; 19 terrorists have slipped through Canada.

5 wins vs. 19 losses = Basic mathematics, folks!

Everyone focuses on doing things legally, ya know? But whatever happened to doing things logically?

Green cards and citizenship tests are an example of what I mean. Say you've got a bomb in your shoe, but you are smart, too. You go to the border, take the test, pass, get your green card, and enter this country... A few weeks later, something explodes, people point to the illegal Mexican working at Home Depot, and the legal one is A-OK.

And green cards... please. What is this, a video game? A video game: 'YOU CANNOT ENTER AMERICA WITHOUT THE GREEN CARD.' That's what I see when I hear about green cards.

Besides, do you think a terrorist is gonna put his real name on a passport? No. He's gonna swipe some guy's wallet, use him as a scapegoat, get a passport, and then we're gonna be playing 'Where's Waldo?' again.

Another example is when I hear people call illegal immigrants 'criminals.' Some guy jumped over a chainlink fence, and he's suddenly on the Top 10 List? What is the flaw with that logic? When you were a kid, you jumped over fences, too! You went swimming because it's good exercise, too! You went to places you shouldn't have been in, too! That illegal guy didn't hurt anyone, why's he in trouble? It's because he's working a job that takes money out of the economy? The economy is already almost -$10,000,000,000,000!!! What's a janitor's salary gonna contribute to that!?

"He's making $3 an hour - get 'im!"

And this brings me to my big point: Why is it that when Mexicans enter this country illegally and take stuff that isn't theirs, they get such a bum rap - this country was FOUNDED by a bunch of people that illegally entered a foreign land and took their stuff! The first Americans didn't negotiate with the Native Americans and buy their land - they swindled and stole from them! Every American history book under the Sun tells you that the first Americans bought the island of Manhattan for $24!! The Native Americans were swindled out of their stuff! I don't care what the rate of inflation is - 424 is NOT a large sum, no matter where and when you lived.

And whatever the first Americans couldn't 'buy,' they stole! Countless Native Americans were killed in the Colonies by the foreign explorers, starting with Columbus himself! Thousands of them were killed when the pioneer Americans crossed the Appalachians and entered the Midwest. The French and Indian War, the battles at Plymouth Rock, the conquest of land over decades that forced the natives onto reservations or they'd be annihilated... it's all there in black and white, people. the Americas were originally the property of the Hispanic natives that landed years before the other Europeans did - the early Americans took the land from the Mexicans and the Native Americans, turned it into a coast-to-coast shopping mall, and now the Mexicans are taking back what was once theirs. It's as simple as that. And people get angry and shocked about it. Don't. There's enough room here for everyone, you know.

And before I rap this up, let me just say that even the legal aliens in this country don't have it so great, so don't make it worse for them...

Well, anyway, I'm starting to get bored, so I'm outta here.

Have a good one!

-Blade

[Lady Vulpix]

I don't know exactly what the situation is in the USA, but it takes a lot for a person to leave his/her country. I've met some people who were 'illegal' immigrants in Argentina. They wanted to become citizens, but bureaucracy wouldn't allow them to. And as far as I know, it's even harder to become a citizen of the USA. I think things would be different if they were given the chance to become citizens and legalize their situation, and pay taxes like everyone else.

[Jeff]

Exactly, I think we should really overhaul the system for becomming a citizen. We should still be cautious and not let just anyone walk right in, but at the same time we sould make it easier for most people to get into the country to start contributing to the economy, because that's important too.

[Dark Dragonite]

It really isn't hard, there are so many loopholes, owning property(it can even be timeshare), school, you can get a green card by marrying a citizen, or you could take the test.

[Lady Vulpix]

Can anyone take the test? If so, why do so many people know nothing about it?

[Dark Dragonite]

well, it isn't that hard, if you study simple things about the government, states, etc...
http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/

But think about it, take the test, you're a legal citizen, meaning you can't take advantage of welfare(there are limitations), you can't work for under minimum wage, so you have to compete for jobs, not just get picked up on the corner, and be paid cash, and you have to pay taxes, why would anyone want to do that when they get away with this?

[Krystalline Kabutops]

Kicking out all of our illegal immigrants won't open up a lot of jobs for the rest of us; it'll just leave a lot of fruits and vegetables unpicked and a lot of dishes unwashed.

How many of you have any idea how difficult it is to immigrate to the US legally, even from places like England and Japan? The paperwork, the bureacracy, the time and effort needed... All are things that prevent people from even trying to get in legally. If you're barely scraping by in some Mexican slum, you can't afford the time to try and get all the forms done, the certificates verified, and all the rest.

It seems rather hypocritical to me, in a nation founded by immigrants looking for a new life, to propose laws that would make people with the very same ambition today felons.

[Dark Dragonite]

Actually, my step-mom immagrated here, so I know the process, and it isn't as hard, or long as you make it seem.
And yes, if there were no illegals to do work for illegal wages, that would mean that certain industries, like landscaping for instance, would get better for the workers, and the entrepenuers(sp?) trying to start a business.
Besides, I lived near, and drove through towns the illegals took over, it's not right they way they hoot and holler at the females, of all ages, there are a lot of pedophiles, I lived in a county that kicked at least 30 of them out, once they found them...They live like 20-30 per house/apt, etc...that's creating a slum, patchogue, and Farmingville used to be good towns, now, you see 30 some odd waiting at the corners, locking their bikes up together, waiting to get picked up like prostitutes...(essentially what they are, giving up their livelyhood to do something demeaning at the price they take) and would you want to walk past them, or God forbid, have your sister, mother, daughter pass the gaggles of them?

[Hatake Kakashi]

I have a failproof solution for illegal immigration.


Pay them the same as everyone else no matter what they do and give them the same benefits. How will this stop it, you ask? Think about it. Why is Wal-Mart gonna risk getting caught and sued now that their janitors are all paid standard wages? They might as well hire someone who can legally work in this country and save themselves time and money.

[Razola]

I have a failproof solution for illegal immigration.


Pay them the same as everyone else no matter what they do and give them the same benefits. How will this stop it, you ask? Think about it. Why is Wal-Mart gonna risk getting caught and sued now that their janitors are all paid standard wages? They might as well hire someone who can legally work in this country and save themselves time and money.

Are you joking, or just fucking stupid?

What if Wal-Mart decides NOT to pay them the standard? What the fuck are the illegals going to do? Tell the government? "Hey man, we're illegal immigrants not getting paid standard wages!" BING, DEPORTED!

Great solution if you assume all illegals are retarded.

[Hatake Kakashi]

I think you're missing the entire fucking point. Besides, who says it'll be an illegal immigrant? Someone who gets a pay cut because the company hired 30 illegal immigrants could get pissed and rat out the company.

The point is if they HAVE to pay a standard similar(or equal to) the current minimum wage, then there's NO incentive to hire illegal immigrants. Most businesses would rather err on the side of caution than risk that an employee will rat them out to the feds.

[Dark-San]

Exactly Hatake, and they don't pay taxes, take advantage of our welfare system, molest kids, rape women(I know, citizens do that too, but they can be caught, these illegals aren't in any system, noone knows where they live but their group), and take jobs at below minimum wage, which hurts now unemployed citizens cause they can only legally work at minimum wage...need any more reasons?

[b][size=3] Erm... I believe that this is a generalisation of the whole illegal immigrant as a whole? Not all illegal immigrants does that. So you might want to soften your approach.

Yes, I believe with the rest that they should be deported. In the first place, there should be a system in the country itself that when you are identified as an illegal immigrant, you would be subject to a minimum jail term and deported.

Tough law could be extended to the illegal immigrant's employers.

[Krystalline Kabutops]

Everyone seems to be conveniantly overlooking the fact that, unless you're 100% native American or 100% of slave descent, your ancestors immigrated here in search of a better chance at life than they had at home, whch is exactly what these Mexicans are doing.

[Razola]

I think you're missing the entire fucking point. Besides, who says it'll be an illegal immigrant? Someone who gets a pay cut because the company hired 30 illegal immigrants could get pissed and rat out the company.

The point is if they HAVE to pay a standard similar(or equal to) the current minimum wage, then there's NO incentive to hire illegal immigrants. Most businesses would rather err on the side of caution than risk that an employee will rat them out to the feds.

I think you're missing the entire point. Who's fucking going to enforce it? If the government finds out illegals are working at places, they're gone. Your "solution" does NOTHING. Places would just break the law (I'd bet any penalty for breaking such a stupid law would be lower than having minimum wage employees).

[Jeff]

Everyone seems to be conveniantly overlooking the fact that, unless you're 100% native American or 100% of slave descent, your ancestors immigrated here in search of a better chance at life than they had at home, whch is exactly what these Mexicans are doing.

My great grandmother came over from Sicily, and did not illegally bypass the system, and she payed taxes. This is not exactly the same thing.

[Hatake Kakashi]

I think you're missing the entire point. Who's fucking going to enforce it? If the government finds out illegals are working at places, they're gone. Your "solution" does NOTHING. Places would just break the law (I'd bet any penalty for breaking such a stupid law would be lower than having minimum wage employees).

Italics: Gee, that sure does seem to be the solution doesn't it? The bold part doesn't seem to match it.

[Magmar]

My great grandmother came over from Sicily, and did not illegally bypass the system, and she payed taxes. This is not exactly the same thing.

Hah! Same here! Go Sicily!

What the fool who said that they are doing the same thing as our ancestors has to realize is that my ancestors came through Ellis Island, came here, learned English from news on the radio and worked their asses off to get a 3rd-generation American like me where I am.

[Dark Dragonite]

My family did the same as yours Magmar and Jeff, one side came from Germany, the other from Ireland, and my step-mom came over herself(family still in Russia), she learned english, got her masters, and is very sucessful for herself, all done the right way, so , it can't take that much time and effort to do thingd legally if so many people have done it, and still are doing it.

[mr_pikachu]

I have a failproof solution for illegal immigration.


Pay them the same as everyone else no matter what they do and give them the same benefits. How will this stop it, you ask? Think about it. Why is Wal-Mart gonna risk getting caught and sued now that their janitors are all paid standard wages? They might as well hire someone who can legally work in this country and save themselves time and money.

Um... that's kind of the law already. Hence the term, minimum wage. The thing is, companies freely break this law, because they know they're already doing breaking other laws by hiring illegal immigrants in the first place (see: aiding and abeting a fugitive... illegal immigrants qualify under this characterization, as they haven't yet been arrested for illegally immigrating). But they simply don't complain to the authorities, because if they did, where could they get work?

[Krystalline Kabutops]

Hah! Same here! Go Sicily!

What the fool who said that they are doing the same thing as our ancestors has to realize is that my ancestors came through Ellis Island, came here, learned English from news on the radio and worked their asses off to get a 3rd-generation American like me where I am.

Oh yes, hurling insults around makes you look like the intelligent one here.

[/sarcasm]

1. Keep in mind that YOUR ancestors came through in the years when there was no limit on how many people could immigrate, and that Ellis island made it so that all you had to do was show up and answer questions. Nowadays immigration takes more initiative and commitment than most would-be immigrants can afford.
2. Is that why so many people are on-edge about this? English? 95% of 3rd-generation immigrants, legal or not, can speak nothing BUT english.
3. So you're saying that if you immigrated before 1900, it's ok, but if you want to come over afterwards, you're fucked?

[Lady Vulpix]

I agree with your points there, KK, but you shouldn't be so aggressive. Not that Magmar should either. Could you guys please calm down?

[kalad1]

I simply state, they are criminals, send them back. The purpose of law is to set rules and boundaries, and, in this case, I believe it to be at least fairly just, thus, kick them out, then seriously reinforce the border.

[Dark Dragonite]

KK, back then, the country was starting, we have a lot of people, and are running out of land to put them, should we continue to freely let people in until there's no room to breathe? It's bad enough the government(by that I mean Bush) would rather throw billions into fighting a war we have no business being in rather than fix up New Orleans, so it may take 25yrs before it is liveable again...do you know where all the former residents will go? Let alone adding more at an exponential rate?
There has to be limitations, otherwise, this would be anarchy...And, to prove your point wrong again, I will restate what I've said 3 times, and noone makes notice...Russia, not the nicest place to live either, close to Cuba type living conditions, my step-mom came over with nothing, her parents didn't give her anything, they're doctors over there, and you're talking about a place where only the top 1% rich population can afford to go out to a restaurant to eat, and playing golf is a rich man's game, she did everything by the book, went to college, got a master's degree, and is in a very comfortable life now...it can be done, some people just won't put the effort in...not making any lazy sterotype remarks...

[Krystalline Kabutops]

KK, back then, the country was starting, we have a lot of people, and are running out of land to put them, should we continue to freely let people in until there's no room to breathe? It's bad enough the government(by that I mean Bush) would rather throw billions into fighting a war we have no business being in rather than fix up New Orleans, so it may take 25yrs before it is liveable again...do you know where all the former residents will go? Let alone adding more at an exponential rate?

Never taken a plane trip across the midwest, then?

[Dark Dragonite]

we need area to grow food, do we not?
And should we plow down every single acre, and destroy the wildlife?

[Krystalline Kabutops]

we need area to grow food, do we not?
And should we plow down every single acre, and destroy the wildlife?

The West if you prefer. Nevada anyone?